If TFC fails to make the playoffs...

[ManUtd4ever]

Will you still be satisfied with the progress the club made in it's third season?

Consider the following:

-TFC won the first trophy in franchise history against all odds in legendary fashion

-The emergence of quality youth on the squad such as Frei, Cronin, White, Attakora, Gomez, and Sanyang

-The inaugral franchise DP signing of Julian DeGuzman

-MLSE and the supporter groups appear to have successfully lobbied the installion of a grass pitch at BMO Field

In summary, I certainly wouldn't be ecstatic if TFC misses the playoffs because the club has underachieved on the pitch but I would be satisfied with the strides the organization has made since last season...

[billyfly]

Its still my team. I can't abandon them anyways...

[felipe]

This thread is moot.

We've already been guaranteed playoffs this year (by no less than our captain) - they're just selling the drama at this point.

You know, look bad on the road, look great at home, squeak into the playoffs, keep the fan levels burning - its all part of the plan.

and yes, very positive strides this year

[ManUtd4ever]

This thread is moot.

We've already been guaranteed playoffs this year (by no less than our captain) - they're just selling the drama at this point.

You know, look bad on the road, look great at home, squeak into the playoffs, keep the fan levels burning - its all part of the plan.

and yes, very positive strides this year

Lol...

[Parkdale]

-TFC won the first trophy in franchise history against all odds in legendary fashion


as happy as I am that they beat Montreal by the required 4 goals to win the Voyagers Cup...

they never should have been in such a shit position. They put themselves behind the 8-ball, and then got really lucky with the win. Plus everyone knows Montreal wasn't playing at 100%.


as far as determining if the season was a success or not:

these were the two goals (as stated by the team)


Win the Voyagers Cup
Make the Playoffs


as it stands now, they lucked their way into a 50% grade.

[Parkdale]

but yes... the team IS better than before, but still not up to the level that they said they would be.

[v00d00daddy]

Will you still be satisfied with the progress the club made in it's third season?

Consider the following:

-TFC won the first trophy in franchise history against all odds in legendary fashion

-The emergence of quality youth on the squad such as Frei, Cronin, White, Attakora, Gomez, and Sanyang

-The inaugral franchise DP signing of Julian DeGuzman

-MLSE and the supporter groups appear to have successfully lobbied the installion of a grass pitch at BMO Field

In summary, I certainly wouldn't be ecstatic if TFC misses the playoffs because the club has underachieved on the pitch but I would be satisfied with the strides the organization has made since last season...

TFC has improved this year from last, but only marginally. I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer but the Canadian Championship was not a big deal to me. The way they won it was nice to see, coming back from adversity....but the actual trophy is not that big a deal. TFC beat 2 other teams and then shit the bed against Puerto Rico.

As for the signing of the players you mentioned.....great work. TFC is set up well for the future and the DP signing is the best in league history in my opinion.

Unfortunately all of the above stuff is moot if the product on the field doesn't yield success.....and we all know..the end product on the field has not been good this year.

so....if they miss the playoffs a lot of the positives of this season will be overshadowed by the one, big, important negative....a lack of success on the field.

[TFC Tifoso]

considering the team set the playoffs as one of their goals for the year in the beginning of the season, a failure to do so would mean they did not meet their goal.....should be the same for us....

has nothing to do with abandoning the team.......just to do with the team holding up to their own goals they set....

in short, if playoffs are missed, the season has not been a success.

[Beach_Red]

We knew from the start of the season it would come down to the last game, or the last couple of games. Still, TFC should be in a better position. There were still far too many games where the team just didn't seem to show up.

[Globetrotter]

They squeaked by Vancouver at BMO. They were fortunate to have a goal called back vs Montreal at BMO. Two 1-0 wins, not impressive. Ravaged in Vancouver, then soundly beat the B squad of a bad USL team. They then went on and didn't score any goals in two games vs PRI. I'm going with glass half empty on this one.

Not doing anything up front, constantly playing guys out of position, complete inconsistency, coaching change, Dichio debacle, possible Dero debacle (the whole DP promise rumour??), we're sitting right where you'd imagine, outside looking in.

From an on field perspective, the improvement was extremely marginal, but perhaps we as fans didn't manage our expectations very well? From an organization standpoint, not impressed with the way they run the "Toronto soccer entertainment" scene.

Overall grade, regardless of playoffs, D+ (C- if being generous).

[Parkdale]

Overall grade, regardless of playoffs, D+ (C- if being generous).


I'd put them at a C just because there is a lot of potential for improvement in the very near future.

If something is broken, but there's an honest effort to fix it, I respect that,
but leaving something broken is not excusable.

[TFCtoMUFC]

I'd put them at a C just because there is a lot of potential for improvement in the very near future.

If something is broken, but there's an honest effort to fix it, I respect that,
but leaving something broken is not excusable.

I would put it at a B- or a B. We have happened upon quite a few long term fixes to our problems (Cronin, Attakora, Frei, OBW, Sanyang) and at the same time have gotten two things we desperately needed (DP and Grass). We lose marks on our road record and the coach. Our V-Cup performance cancels itself out. We played like garbage then we won a big game.

[Parkdale]

in the end..... if they don't make the playoffs then the season is a FAIL no matter what changes have been made.

It's a simple goal, and I don't care HOW they achieve that goal, I just care that they do.

[TFC Tifoso]

in the end..... if they don't make the playoffs then the season is a FAIL no matter what changes have been made.

It's a simple goal, and I don't care HOW they achieve that goal, I just care that they do.

exactly......the changes made do not ensure success.....how those changes perform will determine the success, and its still to early to make a conclusion on that...

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

my goal for the team prior to the start of the season:

1) win the Canadian Championship......accomplished
2) have at least a .500 record, and as for now they are just one game off that.

so the season has gone to form!!

what to expect for 2010:
1) retain the Voyaguers Cup
2) Advance to the Group stage in CCL
3) A record above.500
4) qualify for the playoffs, if just for one rd

[scooter]

well we still have a chance and i will keep on hoping for playoff spot

but i am forcing myself to look at positives

1)picked up some great new players for the future success of the club
2)dont groan---but i think chris cummings could be a great coach if given more time
3)looks like we are going to get grass - bodes well for the future of tfc and also we will get a chance to see national team action at different levels - whooooot

so some good things happening and if we do squeak into the playoffs its a bonus

[Roogsy]

Playoffs are the benchmark this year. Miss the playoffs and they have failed to achieve their principle goal for this year, end of story. We will then see if there is accountability within this organization or not.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The annual "satisfaction" thread. We all measure it differently. Making the playoffs is what they promised but personally I would've traded it fro a CCL run. Flip it and I'm very impressedor satisfied with developments around performance such as the addition of DeGuz and maybe grass.

[DangerRed]

There have been no strides aside from the player signings. This is a team that has two fucking road wins for the entire season. I'm sorry, but that's garbage. We came back from a three-game road trip with A SINGLE POINT.

We need a better manager before we can talk about the playoffs, which, despite Jimmy's guarantee, we will fail to make this year.

[TorontoBlades]

we're in this for the long run sportsfans....

we won our first piece of hardware,

we've have the two best Canadian footballers on our squad,

we have a core of young Canadians and foreign football talent in the system,

our academies are experiencing success,

playoffs??? one, two, maybe three extra games...that's what you guys are crying over....I mean really in the grand scheme of things who really thinks this is an actual measure of a football clubs success

[TFC Tifoso]

we're in this for the long run sportsfans....

we won our first piece of hardware,

we've have the two best Canadian footballers on our squad,

we have a core of young Canadians and foreign football talent in the system,

our academies are experiencing success,

playoffs??? one, two, maybe three extra games...that's what you guys are crying over....I mean really in the grand scheme of things who really thinks this is an actual measure of a football clubs success


oh I don't know.........maybe the players themselves......I mean, after all, they did say playoffs was the goal this year......but I guess it doesn't matter what they think.......

[TorontoBlades]

oh I don't know.........maybe the players themselves......I mean, after all, they did say playoffs was the goal this year......but I guess it doesn't matter what they think.......

it might be the goal....I persoanlly think the championship and top of the table should really be the goal for every club with an ounce of ambition.

But aren't we talking about progress and success here???

[Parkdale]

yeah, they said it was the main goal of the season.

all the rest (players, academy, stadium, coaching etc etc etc) is just a means to an end, and that end should be the MLS cup.

[TFC Tifoso]

it might be the goal....I persoanlly think the championship and top of the table should really be the goal for every club with an ounce of ambition.

But aren't we talking about progress and success here???

yes we are.....and most successes are measured by reaching the goals that were set.....you need something tangible to measure this....I don't think, for example, signing JDG or having young players on the team is a measure of this.....we need to see the results of it before it can be declared a success.....this year we have not....

[TorontoBlades]

yeah, they said it was the main goal of the season.

all the rest (players, academy, stadium, coaching etc etc etc) is just a means to an end, and that end should be the MLS cup.


I disagree with you there too....how can the "end" be jugded on something as fickle as the MLS Cup....like look at NYRB last year, they slipped through with a couple of flukey games - can that be the "end" that as a club we strive for...

To me, the "end" should be becoming a well-known and respected club all over the world

MLS Cups??? DCU has quite a few of those and no one gives a rats ass

[TorontoBlades]

yes we are.....and most successes are measured by reaching the goals that were set.....you need something tangible to measure this....I don't think, for example, signing JDG or having young players on the team is a measure of this.....we need to see the results of it before it can be declared a success.....this year we have not....

so the Red Bulls were a success last year...fringe team, squeezing into the playoffs, making the MLS Cup, losing it, bottom of the table, fade to black....

According to you, this would be success....to me it's the furthest thing from

[Parkdale]

I disagree with you there too....how can the "end" be jugded on something as fickle as the MLS Cup....like look at NYRB last year, they slipped through with a couple of flukey games - can that be the "end" that as a club we strive for...

To me, the "end" should be becoming a well-known and respected club all over the world

MLS Cups??? DCU has quite a few of those and no one gives a rats ass



fine me ONE example of a 'well known and respected club' that didn't win their domestic league cup a few times.

and if you really want to break it down... the Supporters Shield would be the real gauge of merit.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

well we still have a chance and i will keep on hoping for playoff spot

but i am forcing myself to look at positives

1)picked up some great new players for the future success of the club
2)dont groan---but i think chris cummings could be a great coach if given more time
3)looks like we are going to get grass - bodes well for the future of tfc and also we will get a chance to see national team action at different levels - whooooot

so some good things happening and if we do squeak into the playoffs its a bonus


Chris Cummings should be given more time...but the impatient fans would likely throw a fit it that happens.hes learning the job as hes goes and that
will make him better not only for next season but for a long time..

[Parkdale]

so the Red Bulls were a success last year...fringe team, squeezing into the playoffs, making the MLS Cup, losing it, bottom of the table, fade to black....

According to you, this would be success....to me it's the furthest thing from

you're using two separate things to judge one goal.

making the MLS finals IS a success.

the disintegration of the team in the following season is a separate thing.

[TorontoBlades]

fine me ONE example of a 'well known and respected club' that didn't win their domestic league cup a few times.

and if you really want to break it down... the Supporters Shield would be the real gauge of merit.


my point exactly...Successful clubs always win Championships eventually

not all Championships are won by what I deem successful clubs (maybe successful for a short period of time, but I don't consider a timely run of a few games or even a season to merit a club successful)

[Parkdale]

my point exactly...Successful clubs always win Championships eventually


that's a cart and horse argument.

sure a successful club will win their championship eventually,

but I challenge you to name me ONE club that is 'successful' in your eyes that hasn't won their league cup ever.

[Parkdale]

In sports, there are very clear ways to define 'success', and most involve some kind of record of achievements.

can you be a successful club with an empty trophy case? Sure.... if you are judging your success on your potential, and NOT what's actually happened.

[Parkdale]

edit-

[TFC Tifoso]

I disagree with you there too....how can the "end" be jugded on something as fickle as the MLS Cup....like look at NYRB last year, they slipped through with a couple of flukey games - can that be the "end" that as a club we strive for...

To me, the "end" should be becoming a well-known and respected club all over the world

MLS Cups??? DCU has quite a few of those and no one gives a rats ass

LOL....ok, now you must be joking....

kinda like how TFC scraped through to win the V's Cup.....come on, I was there and was as ecstatic as the next guy, but that wasn't exactly a convincing tournament....

and who doesn't give a rats ass abotu DCU?.....you?......they consistently make the playoffs and they are the kind of club others should look at for an example......

[Parkdale]

and who doesn't give a rats ass abotu DCU?.....you?......they consistently make the playoffs and they are the kind of club others should look at for an example......

DCU are probably one of the 'most respected' clubs in the league.
They have active supporters, 4 MLS cups, 4 supporters shields,
2 US Open cups and won CONCACAF once. Sounds pretty good to me!


edit - this post was to back up the point made by TFC Tifoso (for once, we aren't arguing about something :D )

[TFC Tifoso]

so the Red Bulls were a success last year...fringe team, squeezing into the playoffs, making the MLS Cup, losing it, bottom of the table, fade to black....

According to you, this would be success....to me it's the furthest thing from


speaking strictly in the context of last season, yes it was a success for NYRB......

I will judge TFC's progress from this season on the results of next season.

[TFC Tifoso]

DCU are probably one of the 'most respected' clubs in the league.
They have active supporters, 4 MLS cups, 4 supporters shields,
2 US Open cups and won CONCACAF once. Sounds pretty good to me!

no kidding......

[Parkdale]

in fact....

DCU is considered the most successful club in MLS history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_records_and_statistics#All-Time_Most_Successful_MLS_Clubs)


sure some people might discount the MLS as being a backwater league, but it's our home, and we wont ever be playing elsewhere (except for concacaf, which DCU has also won)

[TorontoBlades]

LOL....ok, now you must be joking....

kinda like how TFC scraped through to win the V's Cup.....come on, I was there and was as ecstatic as the next guy, but that wasn't exactly a convincing tournament....

and who doesn't give a rats ass abotu DCU?.....you?......they consistently make the playoffs and they are the kind of club others should look at for an example......

couldn't you say the same thing about the MLS playoffs that you just said about the V-cup????

and yes, I really hope that DCU isn't the pinnacle of the success that we hope to achieve as a club. Yes they won championships in a league where Esky was a noted striker...but how well have they built themselves for how I would like the league to evolve into a respected league...I'm not as sure about that.

[TFC Tifoso]

DCU are probably one of the 'most respected' clubs in the league.
They have active supporters, 4 MLS cups, 4 supporters shields,
2 US Open cups and won CONCACAF once. Sounds pretty good to me!


edit - this post was to back up the point made by TFC Tifoso (for once, we aren't arguing about something :D )

I know.....I'm scared.....:D

[MartinUtd]

that's a cart and horse argument.

sure a successful club will win their championship eventually,

but I challenge you to name me ONE club that is 'successful' in your eyes that hasn't won their league cup ever.

Liverpool

edit - at least in the premiership era

[Parkdale]

and yes, I really hope that DCU isn't the pinnacle of the success that we hope to achieve as a club. Yes they won championships in a league where Esky was a noted striker...but how well have they built themselves for how I would like the league to evolve into a respected league...I'm not as sure about that.


see my above post - Toronto plays in the MLS, and will continue to do so until they can get though concacaf, or the tectonic plates slide us up against Europe.

[TorontoBlades]

speaking strictly in the context of last season, yes it was a success for NYRB......

I will judge TFC's progress from this season on the results of next season.

so then shouldn't you judge this year on the progress over last year?

[Beach_Red]

in fact....

DCU is considered the most successful club in MLS history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_records_and_statistics#All-Time_Most_Successful_MLS_Clubs)


sure some people might discount the MLS as being a backwater league, but it's our home, and we wont ever be playing elsewhere (except for concacaf, which DCU has also won)


A lot of people here also seem to respect New England - or at least the guy running the team - and they've never won anything.

Now, as you say, the players have set this goal of making the playoffs. The Captain has said it will happen.

Should he resign if it doesn't?

[Parkdale]

Liverpool

haha right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_fc#Honours

[Parkdale]

Should he resign if it doesn't?

nope.

you have to think positive starting every season, and if you don't set goals, you will fail.

if he should resign, it wouldn't be for that reason.

[TorontoBlades]

haha right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_fc#Honours

well Leeds Utd has won it more recently than Liverpool....look at how successful they've become

[TFC Tifoso]

couldn't you say the same thing about the MLS playoffs that you just said about the V-cup????

and yes, I really hope that DCU isn't the pinnacle of the success that we hope to achieve as a club. Yes they won championships in a league where Esky was a noted striker...but how well have they built themselves for how I would like the league to evolve into a respected league...I'm not as sure about that.

not really, if you consider all the factors (competition being one....perhaps the biggest)

[Parkdale]

well Leeds Utd has won it more recently than Liverpool....look at how successful they've become

Leeds Utd was founded in 1919.

let's see how Toronto FC is doing in 2099 before we start comparing ourselves with clubs that have a century of history.

[MartinUtd]

haha right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_fc#Honours

They haven't won anything in a league format since the premiership opened up shop. But it is a moot point as they have a long list of other accolades.

[TFC Tifoso]

so then shouldn't you judge this year on the progress over last year?


sure......and if we make the playoffs, I will consider this season as progress.....

[MartinUtd]

While we're talking about Leeds I'd like to point out that they're top of the table. Never mind which table, just know that they're on top :cool:

[Parkdale]

But it is a moot point as they have a long list of other accolades.

exactly. whenever they are feeling blue... there's a really big trophy case filled with shiny stuff to remind them of past glory.

you could hold the entire contents of our trophy case in one hand. Until that changes, we won't be earning international respect.

[TorontoBlades]

Ok look, I'd like to win the cup and make the playoffs as much as the next dude

But seriously, look at our Canadian championship, our players on the pitch (some of the best Canadians in the world - now and future) and you guys want to use the term "failure" besides it...I can't see how...it may not be the most successful campaign it could have been....but "failure" ???? C'mon now

[Parkdale]

sure......and if we make the playoffs, I will consider this season as progress.....

this thread =

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BoGv9YYC7Ws/SjjeVhobiWI/AAAAAAAADc8/CxF7_JSGv7Y/s320/Full%2Bcircle.jpg

[TorontoBlades]

sure......and if we make the playoffs, I will consider this season as progress.....

Say what you'd like about the V-Cup, but

FACT: Last year we didn't win it, this year we did = progress by your definition

[Parkdale]

Ok look, I'd like to win the cup and make the playoffs as much as the next dude

But seriously, look at our Canadian championship, our players on the pitch (some of the best Canadians in the world - now and future) and you guys want to use the term "failure" besides it...I can't see how...it may not be the most successful campaign it could have been....but "failure" ???? C'mon now

I'm not saying that the team isn't improving (because it totally is)
but until those improvements result in GOALS and WINS... they aren't really valid.

It's great to have potential, but until that potential is turned into something tangible, it's not something you can measure on the same scale.

do we have more 'winning potential' than last season - Hell yes.
have we really won enough to say it's been an improvement over last season - I suppose so
have we maximized our potential and won all that we should / could have - hell no!

[Parkdale]

Say what you'd like about the V-Cup, but

FACT: Last year we didn't win it, this year we did = progress by your definition


we fluked into it, despite all our best efforts to screw it up.

[MartinUtd]

Look at Man City last year. All the talent, all the money and how did they finish the season again? No trophies, no europe and only slightly better than the previous year where they ended it with an 8-1 licking at the hands of Middlesbrough.

Doesn't matter what the individual success of the players are, if they can't win anything together there's not a whole lot to be glorious about.

[TFC Tifoso]

Say what you'd like about the V-Cup, but

FACT: Last year we didn't win it, this year we did = progress by your definition

still doesn't define a successful season as per the goals set out by the players.

[TorontoBlades]

I'm not saying that the team isn't improving (because it totally is)
but until those improvements result in GOALS and WINS... they aren't really valid.

It's great to have potential, but until that potential is turned into something tangible, it's not something you can measure on the same scale.

do we have more 'winning potential' than last season - Hell yes.
have we really won enough to say it's been an improvement over last season - I suppose so
have we maximized our potential and won all that we should / could have - hell no!

Agreed. But your going to go bald and grey trying to measure success on something tangible. I'm a perfectionist, and you know as well as I, even if we won the championship - there'd be folks on here finding something wrong with how/why/what TFC did to accomplish it.

so yes, it hasn't nor will it be the most successful season TFC will have...but my initial point remains, and you appear to agree with it based on above....we've generated more success and improved on last year, and you simply cannot label this season a failure, no matter how frustrating this season has been at times to watch and live through

[Parkdale]

still doesn't define a successful season as per the goals set out by the players.


exactly.

goal 1 - win the voyagers up
goal 2 - make the playoffs.


it really is that simple.



now please stop making me agree with you. I'm not used to it.

[TorontoBlades]

we fluked into it, despite all our best efforts to screw it up.

...and if by chance we did the exact same thing getting to and through the MLS playoffs - would that be the metric we use to define TFC success this year?

[TFC Tifoso]

now please stop making me agree with you. I'm not used to it.

ok wait 10 minutes......things will get back to normal......

[Parkdale]

...but my initial point remains, and you appear to agree with it based on above....

we've generated more success and improved on last year,

and you simply cannot label this season a failure


I agree that we are better than before, and we have more potential than ever in our history.
We have improved, but not to the level that was determined to be our 'goal' for this year.


let me use a bad metaphor.

I'm going to train for a marathon. I ran the race last year and came in last.
This year, I want to finish in the top 50% of the racers. I train, and improve.
I run the race and finish in the 80%. I did improve, but I didn't reach my goals.

despite my improvement, was my goal met? no - so it's a failure.



I guess it all comes down to if we are defining 'success' as 'meeting the goals set at the start of the season' or in a more vague, general sense.

[Kaz]

If they pick up 8 more points this season then I'll consider it a decent season.. but with loads of room to improve..
I give the club
a 74 in Attack (B)
a 68 in Midfield (C+)
a 52 in Defense (D-)
a 75 in Goal tending (B)
a 68 in Tactics (C+)

Overall a 67 (C+)

[TFC Tifoso]

If they pick up 8 more points this season then I'll consider it a decent season.. but with loads of room to improve..
I give the club
a 74 in Attack (B)
a 68 in Midfield (C+)
a 52 in Defense (D-)
a 75 in Goal tending (B)
a 68 in Tactics (C+)

Overall a 67 (C+)

wow!.....other than saying "FOUR....FIVE.....ONE!" after Barrett's goal in Montreal, Cummins has been tactically retarded.....

[Cashcleaner]

We were told the club had given themselves two goals for the season. One was to win the Canadian Championship and one was to get into the playoffs. Regardless of the circumstances, we did win the Voyageurs Cup. If we make it into the playoffs, the season would be a success. If we don't, then by the club's own admission, it would be a failure.

Let's remember that those two points are a benchmark that Mo and the team gave to us.

We're still in this fight, however. I'm not ready to throw in the towel if there is still a chance to squeak into the post-season.

[ArmenJBX]

IF we manage to make playoffs this season, do we realistically have a chance at the MLS cup?

Be honest, even if we made it, we'd survive one round, two TOPS.

We can't forget that we are very young and we're a Canadian team. A lot of MLS teams have a lot going for them because, let's face it, the US pool is a lot better then the Canadian pool. The difference is, we have the best of the Canadian pool while teams like NE and DC have one or two solid US players.

Seattle is an example of what we shouldn't be. Them making the playoffs early is only going to hamper their growth. They'll become overconfident too quickly and Seattle fans will demand wins every single season, which Sounders can't produce. This dream run is going to come to an end. So, let's focus on whatever's left in this season, and if we make it, good, we'll see what happens (Hell, anything's possible...the Red Bulls were in the finals...)

Until then, we should continue to develop what we have. Look at the starting XI for this year, and the year before, and before that. Very different squads. We're getting there. One more season and one good coach and we're right there as the top team in MLS.

[ArmenJBX]

We were told the club had given themselves two goals for the season. One was to win the Canadian Championship and one was to get into the playoffs. Regardless of the circumstances, we did win the Voyageurs Cup. If we make it into the playoffs, the season would be a success. If we don't, then by the club's own admission, it would be a failure.

Let's remember that those two points are a benchmark that Mo and the team gave to us.

We're still in this fight, however. I'm not ready to throw in the towel if there is still a chance to squeak into the post-season.

It's not a failure. We had two goals. If we succeed in one, it's 50%. Neither a failure nor a victory.

Consider that last season we didn't succeed in either. That's 0%. This season we have success. There has been growth, by 50%. So, by the club's own admission, we have completed half our goals. Next season, we should strive for 100%, and further. (MLS cup, CCL)

[Oldtimer]

Watch again any of our games from 2007, and you'll see that our opponents weren't "good" by today's MLS standards.

The league as a whole has improved a lot. That's made TFC's improvement seem less than it actually is.

That being said, there is nothing like victory to make everyone happy.

[Cashcleaner]

It's not a failure. We had two goals. If we succeed in one, it's 50%. Neither a failure nor a victory.

Consider that last season we didn't succeed in either. That's 0%. This season we have success. There has been growth, by 50%. So, by the club's own admission, we have completed half our goals. Next season, we should strive for 100%, and further. (MLS cup, CCL)

Okay, but at the beginning of the season, Mo ddn't say we would either win the NCC or get into the playoffs. He said the goals are to win the NCC and make the playoffs.

Its splitting hairs, I know. But just based on what he said is how I'm making my opinion.

[TorontoBlades]

Okay, but at the beginning of the season, Mo ddn't say we would either win the NCC or get into the playoffs. He said the goals are to win the NCC and make the playoffs.

Its slitting hairs, I know. But just based on what he said is how I'm making my opinion.


This are goals expressed by the team - I thought this poll was if YOU thought the season was a successful one or a failure.

[Stryker]

The addition of Serioux, De Rosario and De Guzman means we've upgraded significantly. Younger players like Gomez, Frei and White are really starting to come into thier own and bold well for the future. Even if it may only end up being monetarily.
Not making the playoffs this season will be disappointing, but I feel the season is far from a failure.

[S_D]

Okay, but at the beginning of the season, Mo ddn't say we would either win the NCC or get into the playoffs. He said the goals are to win the NCC and make the playoffs.

Its slitting hairs, I know. But just based on what he said is how I'm making my opinion.

exactly. pass=100% fail is anything less.

[Kaz]

wow!.....other than saying "FOUR....FIVE.....ONE!" after Barrett's goal in Montreal, Cummins has been tactically retarded.....


Don't forget... "lets come away with 3 points we shouldn't settle for less"

I also took into account the players own ability to psychically link up and use a hive mind Head Coach substitute. I'd make it a even 70 if one of the players actually sad that in an interview.

[Cashcleaner]

This are goals expressed by the team - I thought this poll was if YOU thought the season was a successful one or a failure.

And as long as we have a chance to make it into the playoffs, I can't say one way or another.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

one thing for sure.....PURE DISAPOINTMENT if we dont get in!

[ArmenJBX]

One other thing is that we got rid of some major weaknesses in Marco Velez and Kevin Harmse, and now we can rely on most of our players to do the job they're meant to.

[v00d00daddy]

One other thing is that we got rid of some major weaknesses in Marco Velez and Kevin Harmse, and now we can rely on most of our players to do the job they're meant to.


Not that I want them back but we were better during the time that they were here. I can't explain it but TFC have won 3 wins in 13 games since the end of June.

So TFC have been bad when it matters most. Anybody still think this seasons a success?

[windsorlad111]

Seattle is an example of what we shouldn't be. Them making the playoffs early is only going to hamper their growth. They'll become overconfident too quickly and Seattle fans will demand wins every single season, which Sounders can't produce.

classic. i love stuff like this.

that's the sort of justification I make all the time for when shit is happening. would I be happy if I was making a ton of money and had fame and fortune? no... yeah right.
:drinking:

[ArmenJBX]

classic. i love stuff like this.

that's the sort of justification I make all the time for when shit is happening. would I be happy if I was making a ton of money and had fame and fortune? no... yeah right.
:drinking:

I'm not the only one to say this. It's just not healthy for a sports team to make playoffs year one. They become complacent. They expect it, and when they don't make it, there's a lot of repercussions.

If I gave you a trillion dollars right now, it doesn't make you happy in the long run. It makes life easier, makes things good right now, but it doesn't guarantee happiness in the future. It's just too much of a good thing. It takes heartbreak to know love.

Just imagine if TFC had won everything in season one. Would we have the fan base we have right now? Probably not. The passion would be cranked down because those fans would only know the good times, not the bad. TFC wouldn't be the big happy family it is now, the sense of brotherhood wouldn't be around. There'd be a lot more gloryhunters and ex-leafs fans who just need an excuse to go celebrate and drink. With our early failures we've come together as a supporters culture. IMO, this wouldn't exist if we were super successful early on.

[TFC Tifoso]

^^ LMMFAO :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Sonny Cheeba]

Jimmy do you have seasons?

[ArmenJBX]

^^ LMMFAO :rofl::rofl::rofl:

What's so funny?


Jimmy do you have seasons?

Man...it's a work in progress. I'll kill, literally kill, for season seats.

[Beach_Red]

Not that I want them back but we were better during the time that they were here. I can't explain it but TFC have won 3 wins in 13 games since the end of June.

So TFC have been bad when it matters most. Anybody still think this seasons a success?


TFC have slumped badly in the middle of every season so far.

[koryo]

IF we manage to make playoffs this season, do we realistically have a chance at the MLS cup?

Be honest, even if we made it, we'd survive one round, two TOPS.


True, but it's nice to be invited to the table in the first place isn't it?

Realistically, I didn't think this team was strong enough to get to the post season when we got underway this year. With no central defender or reliable source of goals up front, you can't expect a team to win more than it loses.

[v00d00daddy]

TFC have slumped badly in the middle of every season so far.


I know...it's crazy. When it matters most, they play their worst. It makes no sense.

If they win today, hope is still alive....thin, but alive.

If they lose, the season is essentially over and they can go about winning the last couple of games that are meaningless and make that record look decent, even though it's not.

I can't believe its shaping up to be another year of the exact same thing.

God I hope they win tonight.

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm not the only one to say this. It's just not healthy for a sports team to make playoffs year one. They become complacent. They expect it, and when they don't make it, there's a lot of repercussions.

If I gave you a trillion dollars right now, it doesn't make you happy in the long run. It makes life easier, makes things good right now, but it doesn't guarantee happiness in the future. It's just too much of a good thing. It takes heartbreak to know love.

Just imagine if TFC had won everything in season one. Would we have the fan base we have right now? Probably not. The passion would be cranked down because those fans would only know the good times, not the bad. TFC wouldn't be the big happy family it is now, the sense of brotherhood wouldn't be around. There'd be a lot more gloryhunters and ex-leafs fans who just need an excuse to go celebrate and drink. With our early failures we've come together as a supporters culture. IMO, this wouldn't exist if we were super successful early on.

Personally, I would still be a rabid TFC supporter even if we fluked our way to an MLS Cup in 2007. But I understand your logic. This is a common theory as to why the Red Sox were so popular leading up to their first World Series victory since 1918 a few years ago. Conversely, the Florida Marlins never regained their popularity after winning the World Series in their inaugral season.

I can also relate as a Leaf fan. The 80's were so brutal to endure and when the Leafs finally accomplished something marginal for the first time in a long while in 1993 by upsetting Detroit in overtime of game 7 of the 1st round of the playoffs, it almost felt as if we'd already won the cup. Later that summer there was actually a parade for Pat Burns and the boys just for making it to the conference finals against L.A. when we got burned by the worst ref in history, Kerry Fraser. I'm still not over that, lol...

I guess as Toronto fans we have been conditioned along the lines that you described. I don't demand championships every season but we should demand a team that can contend for a championship year in year out. Hopefully, TFC will be that sort of franchise starting next season...

[LesH]

I disagree with you there too....how can the "end" be jugded on something as fickle as the MLS Cup....like look at NYRB last year, they slipped through with a couple of flukey games - can that be the "end" that as a club we strive for...

To me, the "end" should be becoming a well-known and respected club all over the world

MLS Cups??? DCU has quite a few of those and no one gives a rats ass

I totally agree with the last 2 sentences.

Now as much as I would love this to happen, unfortunately IMHO in the next 10 years TFC has absolutely no chance to become a well-known and respected club all over the world, depending strictly on it's MLS performance.... Even if would be winning 5 MLS cups in the next 10 years...

And this simply because the winner of any championship is well-known and respected all over the world just as much as the respective championship is well known and respected all over the world.

We all know what the level of MLS is compared to serious European or even South American championships right now.

I'm sorry, you can throw stones at me, but unless we'll have some radical changes (like in overall player quality and mentality, salary cap, organizational structure, and also general interest in the cities where the teams have there homes, etc.) I can't see the MLS becoming a worldwide known and respected championship in the soccer world in the next 10 years.

Maybe in the next 20 years...

PS:
Conclusion?
Only real chance for TFC to make a name in the world in the next 10 years would be to win some CONCACAF cups.

[Beach_Red]

I know...it's crazy. When it matters most, they play their worst. It makes no sense.

If they win today, hope is still alive....thin, but alive.

If they lose, the season is essentially over and they can go about winning the last couple of games that are meaningless and make that record look decent, even though it's not.

I can't believe its shaping up to be another year of the exact same thing.

God I hope they win tonight.

I do, too.

And you could say that in this league, "when it matters most," is now - the final few games heading into the playoffs. It would have been fantastic if TFC had won three more games over the summer (of course, that would tie them for most in the league right now), an extra nine points (or even an extra six if they'd turned three ties into wins), still wouldn't guarantee a playoff spot but it would feel a lot better.

TFC is in the middle of the pack, really. Moved up from the bottom, but still not good enough.

[Shakes McQueen]

- We've become an average team this season (mid-table), instead of just a bad one (bottom of the table).
- Against all self-inflicted odds, they managed to win the V-Cup, though it was against a somewhat depleted Montreal side.
- They still have no consistency.
- I'm excited for next season with JDG.
- No playoffs.

Playoffs was 50% of the goals for this season, so if they don't make it, that's a failing grade for this year. Winning the V-Cup was nice, but was soured by our pathetic games versus Puerto Rico.

Regardless of how this season ends, we need to be a solid MLS Cup contender next season. No excuses anymore.

- Scott

[ArmenJBX]

50% isn't a fail nor is it a pass. We achieved half our goals with the possibility of making it both.

Let's see what happens at the end of the season. Hopefully we can look back at this moment after lifting the MLS Cup in a few months, and laugh at how worried we were :D

[forza_tfc]

in the end..... if they don't make the playoffs then the season is a FAIL no matter what changes have been made.

It's a simple goal, and I don't care HOW they achieve that goal, I just care that they do.

I agree. Remember at the start of the season we needed a strong CB and a reliable striker. At the end the season we're saying the exact same thing.

Just because changes were made doesn't mean there was progress.

[Red CB Toronto]

There have been benchmarks this season that will make it one we will not forget regardless of making the playoffs, now if they do it will do it will be amazing. Winning the Canadian Championship was huge and in the fashion they did, also the arrival of DeRo and his double digits in goals has been great to watch. So the playoffs are the goal and would cap off this season in a good way but positive steps have been made regardless.

[Davenport]

There have been benchmarks this season that will make it one we will not forget regardless of making the playoffs, now if they do it will do it will be amazing. Winning the Canadian Championship was huge and in the fashion they did, also the arrival of DeRo and his double digits in goals has been great to watch. So the playoffs are the goal and would cap off this season in a good way but positive steps have been made regardless.

This Canadian Championship thing keeps getting raised. It's a joke competition against lower quality teams, especially in the last game, vs Montreal's reserves.
They then went on to lose on aggregate to a team from a lower division.
TFC can't score goals and their defence is a joke.
Progress ? NONE AT ALL.

[billyfly]

"if" he says.....

[rocker]

It's a joke competition against lower quality teams, especially in the last game, vs Montreal's reserves.
They then went on to lose on aggregate to a team from a lower division.


I wouldn't call it a joke competition. Montreal and Vancouver played well, and tough in 2008 and 2009 respectively, and Montreal went far last year in the champions league.
The team we lost to on aggregate went far in last year's champions league too. AND, they played a bunkering, physical style that means anything can happen.

i'm proud of the Voyageurs Cup.

[Davenport]

I wouldn't call it a joke competition. Montreal and Vancouver played well, and tough in 2008 and 2009 respectively, and Montreal went far last year in the champions league.
The team we lost to on aggregate went far in last year's champions league too. AND, they played a bunkering, physical style that means anything can happen.

i'm proud of the Voyageurs Cup.
Montreal did really well to get as far as they did last year.
That still doesn't hide the fact that TFC should win it every year as they're playing against teams from an inferior league.

[Oldtimer]

Montreal did really well to get as far as they did last year.
That still doesn't hide the fact that TFC should win it every year as they're playing against teams from an inferior league.

Yet USL sides beat MLS sides all of the time in the US Open Cup.

The problem is with the MLS roster restrictions. It's as if a Coca-Cola Championship team had to play 3 or 4 League 2 players every match. So we have JDG and DeRo. We also have Nick Garcia (and before him the woeful Marco Velez) who shouldn't even be playing in the same league as JDG or DeRo. Every MLS side has that problem.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This Canadian Championship thing keeps getting raised. It's a joke competition against lower quality teams, especially in the last game, vs Montreal's reserves.
They then went on to lose on aggregate to a team from a lower division.
TFC can't score goals and their defence is a joke.
Progress ? NONE AT ALL.

We have a trophy now. None was how many we had last year. Progress is a fact. By what margin is up to you.

[greatwhitenorf]

If... When TFC fail to make the playoffs, I shall spend the money I would have spent on tickets and other stuff on the same thing Leafs fans and players do:











GOLF!

[v00d00daddy]

We have a trophy now. None was how many we had last year. Progress is a fact. By what margin is up to you.


It is progress. And if this is the pace at which TFC "progress" there will be a lot of empty seats and upset fans in 2-3 years time.

Nobody can say that winning the NCC this year is not an improvement on losing it last year but come on.....at this rate TFC will be near the bottom of the league for a long time.

Keep in mind that the teams we compete with (Montreal and Vancouver) will soon be MLS teams, with better players and more ambition. The NCC is not, and will not be a walk in the park in the future.

TFC need to get better, faster than they are. If you're content with the "progress" that's fine...but a lot of others are not.

[TFC07]

It's amazing how some fans have such low standards. :facepalm:

[Fort York Redcoat]

My standards are higher when it comes to complaining for change.

[colman1860]

at this rate TFC will be near the bottom of the league for a long time.


Our point total has increased in each of our seasons so far. So actually, at this rate, TFC will either make the playoffs this year or next.

[Bars92]

It is progress. And if this is the pace at which TFC "progress" there will be a lot of empty seats and upset fans in 2-3 years time.

Nobody can say that winning the NCC this year is not an improvement on losing it last year but come on.....at this rate TFC will be near the bottom of the league for a long time.

Keep in mind that the teams we compete with (Montreal and Vancouver) will soon be MLS teams, with better players and more ambition. The NCC is not, and will not be a walk in the park in the future.

TFC need to get better, faster than they are. If you're content with the "progress" that's fine...but a lot of others are not.

Its not all about winning. As long as the team is showing signs of progress. I think we should just be happy we have a football team in this city.

[Davenport]

Its not all about winning. As long as the team is showing signs of progress. I think we should just be happy we have a football team in this city.

Sounds like you're from Toronto.

Now that we have a team and they're well supported the owners shoud do their utmost to assemble a winning team for their loyal fans.

Hold on, we are in Toronto and MLSE own the team.

Bollocks.

[v00d00daddy]

Our point total has increased in each of our seasons so far. So actually, at this rate, TFC will either make the playoffs this year or next.


And this year...just like last year...our point totals will improve when it no longer matters...at the end of the season when it's already too late.

So yeah...we should sneak into the playoffs next year. Maybe win a round the year after that...then what?

6 years in and we MIGHT be in contention for a deep run. Okay for you...not for me.

This is all assuming we don't stumble backwards at some point...which we haven't done yet because it's pretty hard to fall further then two or three from the bottom of the league.

Whatever..TFC is good and getting better for you. Not so much for me. TFC needs a drastic change in direction in my opinion.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^points always matter IMO. It seems you already are unimpressed with TFC just making the playoffs next year. Which drastic direction was it that will satiate and for how long? That year? 2 yrs?

[v00d00daddy]

^points always matter IMO. It seems you already are unimpressed with TFC just making the playoffs next year. Which drastic direction was it that will satiate and for how long? That year? 2 yrs?


I'd love to discuss it but it would take this thread WAY off topic and it's not really a topic worth discussing while the season is still on.

I'm still hoping that TFC can make the playoffs this year. All the other teams in the league seem to be trying to help us so I hope we can take advantage.

[ManUtd4ever]

^^True enough...I would love nothing more than for this thread to become irrelevant by the end of the season!

[mclaren]

It's amazing how some fans have such low standards. :facepalm:

quoting that for the truth

[Monztro]

I disagree with you there too....how can the "end" be jugded on something as fickle as the MLS Cup....like look at NYRB last year, they slipped through with a couple of flukey games - can that be the "end" that as a club we strive for...

To me, the "end" should be becoming a well-known and respected club all over the world

MLS Cups??? DCU has quite a few of those and no one gives a rats ass

By this you're basically saying that the Voyageurs Cup win is not that great because of hoe TFC shit the bed when in the CCL.

This team you must all remember is not even three seasons old... being a top 8 team in a 15 team league is already lofty and I don't expect TFC to make the playoffs until next year at the earliest.

That being said TFC has improved vastly from 2007 and all the proper pieces besides the coaching are in place, Mo said five years so give him five years.

[Marco2K]

TFC won the CCL. There are only 2 other teams in that damn tournament. Damn!!!

We have had a bad regular season. Without Dero we would be battling SAN JOSE and NY for last.

We lack and creativity on the pitch. Its year 3 and yet it's the same problem. WE CANT SCORE A DAMN GOAL.

No doubt getting GRASS, Dero and Deguzman will make us better.

WE NEED A NEW COACH.

Maybe give MO one more year. I think this might be a hard league to manage in cause of all the restraints.

[tfc2008]

but yes... the team IS better than before, but still not up to the level that they said they would be.


Better than before LOL LOL