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View Full Version : Watching DeRo on Grill Room (SunTV)



flatpicker
09-22-2009, 10:39 PM
Anyone else watching the interview on The Casino Rama Grill Room (http://affiliate.zap2it.com/tv/the-casino-rama-grill-room/EP00775532) ?

Channel 15 on my basic Rogers cable.

started at 11:30

flatpicker
09-22-2009, 10:46 PM
I may have misspoken about DeGuz being interviewed...

Focus is on DeRo.


I feel like the host was really digging for dirt about his salary compared to DeGuz.
I almost felt bad for DeRo...

Carts
09-22-2009, 10:49 PM
Watched it earlier - KEEP WATCHING...

Although some of the big news has been dropped already, one being HE WAS PROMISED DP before coming here, then decided to leave Houston before that went away... YIKES... And that he hinted at renegotiating his contract because of his "level of play"...

I hope, pray, this JDG signing doesn't blow up in our face... Dero is always 'politically correct' when talking about JDG, but the money comments were there... YIKES!

Great interview though...

We need more TFC one-on-ones in the Toronto media...I know alot of you dislike GW, but if this show opens the door for some of the bigger shows to sneak a TFC player on here and there - its a good thing...

Carts...

flatpicker
09-22-2009, 10:54 PM
^ yeah, that talk about his "promised" DP salary was interesting.

I wonder, if the rumours are true about the rising salary cap, increased max player salary, and extra DP (not counting against the cap)...
... perhaps DeRo will be up for a big raise next year.

greatwhitenorf
09-22-2009, 10:57 PM
Yeah, I'm not GW's biggest fan. He spends too much time talking. We want to see his guests or hear debate with his fellow participants, but he gets too wrapped up in what he wants to say and never lets good banter develop.

FluSH
09-22-2009, 10:58 PM
We need more TFC one-on-ones in the Toronto media...I know alot of you dislike GW, but if this show opens the door for some of the bigger shows to sneak a TFC player on here and there - its a good thing...

Carts...

You mean you don't like the flirting interviews from Off The Pitch? What's SeriouX favourite colour quick...

flatpicker
09-22-2009, 11:00 PM
Yeah, I'm not GW's biggest fan. He spends too much time talking. We want to see his guests or hear debate with his fellow participants, but he gets too wrapped up in what he wants to say and never lets good banter develop.


yeah... he does like the sound of his own voice.

Carts
09-22-2009, 11:00 PM
I may have misspoken about DeGuz being interviewed...

Focus is on DeRo.


I feel like the host was really digging for dirt about his salary compared to DeGuz.
I almost felt bad for DeRo...

Those questions were based on the knowledge that it appears MLSE may have screwed Dero over... He says "...to my knowledge it was promised that I was going to be the designated player... and then I guess the league and Toronto FC came about and I had already spoke to Houston about wanting to leave..." He then goes onto to say that 'he technically can't, but actually can' renegotiate his contract at the end of the year...

YIKES! Not that I blame him - after hearing thats how it went down...

Carts...

Brooker
09-22-2009, 11:03 PM
ugh..... i wish i didn't watch that interview.

wzhxvy
09-22-2009, 11:10 PM
Serioux's favourite colour is blue and he likes spicy food...there you go.

On a serious note, I would be all for Dero getting paid max salary, and if thats 500K under then new salary cap, then TFC should up him, and thats great. I would not want us to use a DP spot on him however, because lets face it, he is getting the most money here in Toronto (no other MLS club would pay him higher than us), but I dont think we should overpay either. So its a fine balance...I hope he is mature enough to realize that those are the breaks with DeGuz because if he becomes unhappy...he will be dropped by MO and crew, and they will bring someone else, and he is not getting any younger. So 500K + some allocation and another year on the contract...he should be happy.

Carts
09-22-2009, 11:10 PM
I have it on PVR - but don't want to quote post too much without having the quotes word for word (as it is above)...

Lets just say I hope MLSE bought him a house or something, because by the sounds of it, they may have screwed over our best player & favourite son... :(

Needless to say, Dero doesn't or didn't deserve to be part of a back-out deal to save some cash or whatever etc...

Carts...

Carts
09-22-2009, 11:12 PM
You mean you don't like the flirting interviews from Off The Pitch? What's SeriouX favourite colour quick...

LOL!!!

Those were "hard hitting" interviews... :D

Carts...

Ossington Mental Youth
09-22-2009, 11:42 PM
wow thats pretty nuts, i wouldnt blame DeRo for being pissed then that DeGuzman got the DP slot. Itll be interesting to see if its made up for DeRo or if He will bite the bullet. Ive always been in favor of maxing out his pay and even at one point as DP but as of now we have one so i dont know what we could do

Shway
09-22-2009, 11:53 PM
If DeRo wanted to renegotiate his contract he might just get what he wants because, his play this year has been incredrible (can't even describe) hes has been sleezed into a contract that if he was promised. And i cant see MLSE, Toronto FC, not wanting to keep him happy. They should just under the table buy a new house for him...lol

I sense a little bitterness with DeRO in his interview, about DeGuz. He was talking alot of "hopefully he will help" and "maybe".

But i guess we got the bare naked truth. Now we know how MO does his work

Big Bruva
09-23-2009, 12:07 AM
Those questions were based on the knowledge that it appears MLSE may have screwed Dero over... He says "...to my knowledge it was promised that I was going to be the designated player... and then I guess the league and Toronto FC came about and I had already spoke to Houston about wanting to leave..." He then goes onto to say that 'he technically can't, but actually can' renegotiate his contract at the end of the year...

YIKES! Not that I blame him - after hearing thats how it went down...

Carts...


Knew something about this awhile ago and didn't shock me at all, i actually did one of these :facepalm: and thought oh no MoJo has been up to his snake moves again lol

I really wanna see how it plays out coz DeRo will not just give up the team to Julian which might help the team BUT if Julian is shown too much favourtism it get to DeRo.

Cashcleaner
09-23-2009, 12:31 AM
I'm sure DeRo will be getting properly compensated at a later time. The fact is that as good as he is, he's not on the same level as JDG and his signing just did not warrant the use of the DP slot.

The team knows what he has contributed. I'm sure it won't be an issue next season.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-23-2009, 02:00 AM
I'm sure DeRo will be getting properly compensated at a later time. The fact is that as good as he is, he's not on the same level as JDG and his signing just did not warrant the use of the DP slot.

The team knows what he has contributed. I'm sure it won't be an issue next season.

I kinda get that too but it is a tough pill to swallow, godwilling youre right

James17930
09-23-2009, 02:18 AM
Fuck -- we really need the cap to go up next year, big time.

Shakes McQueen
09-23-2009, 04:56 AM
I'm sure DeRo will be getting properly compensated at a later time. The fact is that as good as he is, he's not on the same level as JDG and his signing just did not warrant the use of the DP slot.

The team knows what he has contributed. I'm sure it won't be an issue next season.

Also, while it's interesting to get DeRo's perspective on his contract negotiation, he mentions MLS and TFC must have "come about" while he was telling Houston he wanted out.

My guess is that may have had less to do with Mo fucking him over, than it had to do with the league telling TFC/Mo that they weren't allowed to use their DP slot on a player that has been playing in this league as a non-DP, and at non-DP salary, his entire career - that wasn't what the DP rule was designed for.

Does anyone think it's far-fetched at all, that the league would deny TFC the right to use their DP slot on DeRo?

I suppose I feel kind of "bad" for DeRo, that we now have an actual DP that makes more than him, but DeRo is still one of the highest paid non-DP players in the league, and short of leaving the team, I'm not sure what else the guy wants. And what other team would pay him more than we currently do?

DeRo has special value to us, because he's a Canadian soccer icon, but he doesn't hold that same value anywhere else. He's still a great player - but is he worth $425k-$450K to another team in this league, under the current cap?

If the cap goes up for next season, then fine, give him a raise. But if not, I really think DeRo kind of needs to suck it up and move on. He signed on the dotted line for the salary he's getting now, and I don't think soothing his bruised ego, in that someone is now making more than him, is really prudent.

JDG has a higher pedigree as a player, than DeRo, therefore the league was probably okay with making him a DP. DeRo has been a lifer in MLS - it wouldn't shock me at all if MLS kiboshed the original plan.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
09-23-2009, 04:58 AM
Oh, and I also think DeRo, like Dichio, is likely one of those special players that will always have a job with the club after he retires, if he wants one. The front office knows he resonates with the fans, and I'm sure they would want to use that to their advantage.

- Scott

Ossington Mental Youth
09-23-2009, 06:57 AM
wouldnt surprise me to be honest as they more or less did the same thing to kenny cooper at dallas

brad
09-23-2009, 07:15 AM
I saw it, and my impression was that DeRo wants more money if the cap goes up. I think he is already at the max for a non-DP, so he's not going to get a raise elsewhere, and we won't get DP either.

He also mentioned something about how he signed his contract, and will let his play this season do the talking, and then push for renegotiation. Remember, coming to TFC, a lot of people thought his best years were behind him.

He also talked about how the league needs to keep it's best players in order to grow, and there needs to be a way for those players to be compensated.

He did not seem bitter towards JDG.

brad
09-23-2009, 07:16 AM
Oh, and I also think DeRo, like Dichio, is likely one of those special players that will always have a job with the club after he retires, if he wants one. The front office knows he resonates with the fans, and I'm sure they would want to use that to their advantage.


DeRo seems to be setting himself up quite nicely off the pitch as well. I have a feeling that getting his off field ventures up and running in his home town where he is a big deal played as much a factor in him coming here as anything.

Shaughno
09-23-2009, 07:28 AM
Watched it earlier - KEEP WATCHING...

Although some of the big news has been dropped already, one being HE WAS PROMISED DP before coming here, then decided to leave Houston before that went away... YIKES... And that he hinted at renegotiating his contract because of his "level of play"...

I hope, pray, this JDG signing doesn't blow up in our face... Dero is always 'politically correct' when talking about JDG, but the money comments were there... YIKES!

Great interview though...

We need more TFC one-on-ones in the Toronto media...I know alot of you dislike GW, but if this show opens the door for some of the bigger shows to sneak a TFC player on here and there - its a good thing...

Carts...


People called me an idiot, but I said this JDG signing would piss someone off in the dressing room and I hinted at DeRo. Very few people believed me, well... still dismiss the idea folks?

You can't have a DP quality player, who's proving it on the field... be completely happy when there's another DP player on the team making a shit ton more money. Regardless of JDG's play for the rest of the season, if I was DeRo, I would be at the minimum... slightly pissed at those running the team.

Phil
09-23-2009, 07:32 AM
Understandable that DeRo might be upset about the pay difference.

But, to me its up to each player to negotiate his best deal. Not happy, don't sign on the dotted line.

I have heard that there would be an increased contract for some players if the cap went up. Remember that a few players took pay cuts last year just to make room for DeRo.

TFC Tifoso
09-23-2009, 07:34 AM
People called me an idiot, but I said this JDG signing would piss someone off in the dressing room and I hinted at DeRo. Very few people believed me, well... still dismiss the idea folks?

You can't have a DP quality player, who's proving it on the field... be completely happy when there's another DP player on the team making a shit ton more money. Regardless of JDG's play for the rest of the season, if I was DeRo, I would be at the minimum... slightly pissed at those running the team.

Yep, I hear ya.......but its been a known fact that we have an idiot running the team......regardless of whatever prevented DeRo from getting a DP contract (ie. MLS interference) you'd figure Mo would do his homework on it before going on to make such "promises".....but then again this is Mo we're talking about here....

Shaughno
09-23-2009, 07:39 AM
Understandable that DeRo might be upset about the pay difference.

But, to me its up to each player to negotiate his best deal. Not happy, don't sign on the dotted line.

I have heard that there would be an increased contract for some players if the cap went up. Remember that a few players took pay cuts last year just to make room for DeRo.

And how long did the DeRo shit go on for? He was trying to renegotiate a deal with Houston as a DP for over a year before he started talking with TFC... and that wasn't exactly a quick process either.

FluSH
09-23-2009, 07:55 AM
Understandable that DeRo might be upset about the pay difference.

But, to me its up to each player to negotiate his best deal. Not happy, don't sign on the dotted line.

I have heard that there would be an increased contract for some players if the cap went up. Remember that a few players took pay cuts last year just to make room for DeRo.

So Mo Johnston not only got us DeRo he got us DeRo at a discount!!!! I've told everyone before... the man is a ruthless business man.

TFC Tifoso
09-23-2009, 07:58 AM
So Mo Johnston not only got us DeRo he got us DeRo at a discount!!!! I've told everyone before... the man is a ruthless business man.


.....and he also apparently lied to him by promising a DP contract.....

Shaughno
09-23-2009, 08:12 AM
So Mo Johnston not only got us DeRo he got us DeRo at a discount!!!! I've told everyone before... the man is a ruthless business man.

Not really a discount, we're paying him more than he was making in Houston... almost double actually.


.....and he also apparently lied to him by promising a DP contract.....

Exactly. Shady fucking business if you ask me.

"Hey, you wanna be our star player? We'll make you a DP I promise!"

Detroit_TFC
09-23-2009, 08:20 AM
Not really a discount, we're paying him more than he was making in Houston... almost double actually.



Exactly. Shady fucking business if you ask me.

"Hey, you wanna be our star player? We'll make you a DP I promise!"

Hey who hasn't said this to a date at one time or another...

:D

Ossington Mental Youth
09-23-2009, 08:23 AM
People called me an idiot, but I said this JDG signing would piss someone off in the dressing room and I hinted at DeRo. Very few people believed me, well... still dismiss the idea folks?]


I was a naysayer but only because i hadnt known that DeRo had been offered DP first, i think if he had been offered his current pay and accepted then watched JDG get the DP i dont think he would have been upset

Shaughno
09-23-2009, 08:24 AM
I was a naysayer but only because i hadnt known that DeRo had been offered DP first, i think if he had been offered his current pay and accepted then watched JDG get the DP i dont think he would have been upset

Agreed. You can't be upset if you can't demand the money in the first place. DeRo has every reason to be upset.


Hey who hasn't said this to a date at one time or another...

:D
:rofl: Hey, we're gonna DP you... ok? :hump: :rofl:

jabbronies
09-23-2009, 08:29 AM
here's the video:
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2009/09/22/11056646.html

TFC Tifoso
09-23-2009, 08:29 AM
Exactly. Shady fucking business if you ask me.

"Hey, you wanna be our star player? We'll make you a DP I promise!"

I agree.....makes much sense as to why it took so long to get DeRo's name to paper now....

could DeRo have signed the contract in order to save his hometown club from a PR disaster?......

Beach_Red
09-23-2009, 08:35 AM
Exactly. Shady fucking business if you ask me.

"Hey, you wanna be our star player? We'll make you a DP I promise!"

If DeRo is pissed at anyone, it should be his own agent. A "promise," a "verbal contract," worth the papaer its printed on. What is this, his first professional contract?

This is a bush league...

Shaughno
09-23-2009, 08:36 AM
I agree.....makes much sense as to why it took so long to get DeRo's name to paper now....

could DeRo have signed the contract in order to save his hometown club from a PR disaster?......


DeRo is a class act, but I figure he knew he was done with Houston... and if he didn't sign with TFC... where else is he going to go? He wanted to come home, why move away from Houston unless it's to come home? Maybe he did do it for the benefit of TFC, but more likely, I think he did it for himself.

Shaughno
09-23-2009, 08:38 AM
If DeRo is pissed at anyone, it should be his own agent. A "promise," a "verbal contract," worth the papaer its printed on. What is this, his first professional contract?

This is a bush league...

This is a bush league, no denying it. He signed at just under the DP, to help TFC. They probably told him that they would make him DP once they had the space to do so, or something along those lines. Obviously his agent would prefer DP status as I'm sure they would have profited from it more anyway.

TFC Tifoso
09-23-2009, 08:39 AM
DeRo is a class act, but I figure he knew he was done with Houston... and if he didn't sign with TFC... where else is he going to go? He wanted to come home, why move away from Houston unless it's to come home? Maybe he did do it for the benefit of TFC, but more likely, I think he did it for himself.

sounds fair to me....

Belfast_Boy
09-23-2009, 08:41 AM
People called me an idiot, but I said this JDG signing would piss someone off in the dressing room and I hinted at DeRo. Very few people believed me, well... still dismiss the idea folks?

You can't have a DP quality player, who's proving it on the field... be completely happy when there's another DP player on the team making a shit ton more money. Regardless of JDG's play for the rest of the season, if I was DeRo, I would be at the minimum... slightly pissed at those running the team.

every interviewer asks how he feels about JDG getting paid so much. if it didn't bug him before hearing it all the time will get to him.

DeRo proves himself game after game. JDG is a great player but we have to see how he plays with us and with less talented players. will he be able to bring it game after game if he finds it frustrating? it seems that DeRo does that.

IMO if cap goes up give him more money!

ManUtd4ever
09-23-2009, 08:42 AM
I saw it, and my impression was that DeRo wants more money if the cap goes up. I think he is already at the max for a non-DP, so he's not going to get a raise elsewhere, and we won't get DP either.

He also mentioned something about how he signed his contract, and will let his play this season do the talking, and then push for renegotiation. Remember, coming to TFC, a lot of people thought his best years were behind him.

He also talked about how the league needs to keep it's best players in order to grow, and there needs to be a way for those players to be compensated.

He did not seem bitter towards JDG.

I got the same impression after watching the video. I can't envision two homegrown icons that are also longtime CMNT teammates causing dissention in the locker room. If the cap goes up, I'm sure DeRo feels he will be adequately compensated by MLSE, as he should be...

Shaughno
09-23-2009, 08:45 AM
I got the same impression after watching the video. I can't envision two homegrown icons that are also longtime CMNT teammates causing dissention in the locker room. If the cap goes up, I'm sure DeRo feels he will be adequately compensated by MLSE, as he should be...

Why would he be mad at JDG? He doesn't dictate what JDG makes. He's not happy with how the FO dealt with his OWN contract by the sounds of it. I do agree, he should be compensated accordingly.

Belfast_Boy
09-23-2009, 08:49 AM
Why would he be mad at JDG? He doesn't dictate what JDG makes. He's not happy with how the FO dealt with his OWN contract by the sounds of it. I do agree, he should be compensated accordingly.

exactly! DeRo is smart and classy enough to know better. JDG got the best deal he could, who could fault him for that.
Mo and FO, I'll just call them MoFo it's appropriate, can't be trusted.

ManUtd4ever
09-23-2009, 08:53 AM
exactly! DeRo is smart and classy enough to know better. JDG got the best deal he could, who could fault him for that.
Mo and FO, I'll just call them MoFo it's appropriate, can't be trusted.

Classic... :rofl:

felipe
09-23-2009, 09:19 AM
This is awesome!

In two years mcClown will learn how to read and then write a blockbuster book about the DeGuzman factor - and how DeRo is so upset about it.

DeGuz will join a champions league team in January and then come back to us in May - DeRo will question his commitment

'Just because he's in full body traction doesn't mean he can't travel to texas for a midweek game. Those hospital beds have wheels.'

DeRo will complain about DeGuz people taking over the running of the club - 'His kids leave their crayons all over the dressingroom, it's a disgrace! and

'sure his dad is a better manager than mo, and his 14 year old cousin, the new had coach, has a certain tactical nous we were missing, but...

DeRo will talk about the gulf in incomes at the club - 'I only make 500k a year and the bastard never bought me beer and wings, he did give me his old trainers but its not the same thing...sure he invites the entire team over to fly to Aruba in his private jet - but he doesn't ask me before everybody else, or ask me if that sort of behaviour's okay with me.

'He never introduced me to tom cruise...'

olegunnar
09-23-2009, 09:22 AM
You should be banned for comparing DeRo to landycakes

Bobo
09-23-2009, 09:25 AM
You can't have a DP quality player, who's proving it on the field... be completely happy when there's another DP player on the team making a shit ton more money. Regardless of JDG's play for the rest of the season, if I was DeRo, I would be at the minimum... slightly pissed at those running the team.


Despite having the sort of season you expect from a DP, he's not a DP in this league. He hasn't played at a level higher than MLS. You can't award every above average player the slot. Now knowing that he was expecting to be named club's DP when he came, it makes his coming home seem slightly less noble. That all being said, I'd be thinking about more money if I had the season he has.

FluSH
09-23-2009, 09:26 AM
.....and he also apparently lied to him by promising a DP contract.....

What ruthless businessman wouldn't lie... Listen I feel for DeRO and all... he is a great player and obviously he is guarding his food... after his best earning years are gone what is he going to do? These MLS players are retiring at 35-36... they still have at least 40 more years to go through... On the other hand MO is trying to get the best ROI he can possibly get... anyhow hopefully DeRo gets his contract renegotiated next year...

Shaughno
09-23-2009, 09:27 AM
Despite having the sort of season you expect from a DP, he's not a DP in this league. He hasn't played at a level higher than MLS. You can't award every above average player the slot. Now knowing that he was expecting to be named club's DP when he came, it makes his coming home seem slightly less noble. That all being said, I'd be thinking about more money if I had the season he has.


Why... is Landy that much better than the league? Because he's now a DP. I'm just sayin. He was trying for DP status pre-TFC talks... so it's not unrealistic for him to continue trying now that he's showing he can STILL perform above most of the league's players.

olegunnar
09-23-2009, 09:35 AM
What ruthless businessman wouldn't lie... Listen I feel for DeRO and all... he is a great player and obviously he is guarding his food... after his best earning years are gone what is he going to do? These MLS players are retiring at 35-36... they still have at least 40 more years to go through... On the other hand MO is trying to get the best ROI he can possibly get... anyhow hopefully DeRo gets his contract renegotiated next year...

I agree with what you posted but I believe it's only half of the story.

The other half is Mo has to build a team, and part of that is creating an environment in which the team succeeds. It's not a video game where you just plug in players, there's man mangement that goes along with the job.

That's where the lying and overall snake behaviour that seems to be the norm with Mo becomes an issue. You're not going to get the best out of professional players when the guy in charge of their paycheques is a snake.
If the leader was a true leader, they'd be lining up to follow and give their all, instead we seem to have an environment where players play below expectations and even worse, play better for their new clubs after they leave here.

Oldtimer
09-23-2009, 09:39 AM
Landycakes is still thinking about Europe, plus he's the star of the US Mens National Team. DP status (or lack thereof) would not affect his play, because he's trying for something higher than just his club side.

I suspect that DeRo was promised that if he performed, he would get a raise. If the league goes to 2 DP slots, he'll probably get that.

wzhxvy
09-23-2009, 09:52 AM
This type of behaviour is never good...and it will really hurt when "all other things are equal", the player or coach will decide to take the other offer than come here. God knows...we have had several things going against us in the past. When Vancouver and Montreal come in (if things dont change in the TFC FO), this could present a real problem recruiting talent or having to overpay.

With all that being said, when you sign a contract, you know exactly what you are getting into. It would be silly to expect the other party to give you more based on the goodness of their heart. So Dero is negotiating and good for him.

TFC Tifoso
09-23-2009, 10:26 AM
What ruthless businessman wouldn't lie... Listen I feel for DeRO and all... he is a great player and obviously he is guarding his food... after his best earning years are gone what is he going to do? These MLS players are retiring at 35-36... they still have at least 40 more years to go through... On the other hand MO is trying to get the best ROI he can possibly get... anyhow hopefully DeRo gets his contract renegotiated next year...

so I guess the question is are you ok with Mo using these tactics?....I sure as hell am not.....let's face it here....Mo is not some kind of renegade who works all by himself.....he is supposed to be trying to build something here....and to build it, he will require a certain amount of trust for various reasons from various sources.....shit like this is not the best way to go about doing it, and eventually it will become a reputation if it repeats...

so far, this year ALONE we have had shady dealings with the Carver situation, Dichio, and now this too.....maybe people within our own club can't see Mo as a snake, but eventually people on the outside will....people who he has to negotiate with in order to get players to this club (if they haven't started to take notice already).......yes, you can look strictly at the "end result", but it is also important to look at the path that was taken to get there.....its called ethics, and if its not there, then I see a big problem coming....

SanStarko
09-23-2009, 10:48 AM
Maybe i'm missing something here but I'm pretty sure Mo and the front office didn't tell DeRo 'Here, sign this contact, it's to make you a DP' and then after DeRo had signed it turned round and said 'Haha, got you, we lied and it's not really a DP contract'

DeRo is still on a pretty healthy wage as it is, if he wasn't happy he didn't need to sign it. Not to mention that we have one vague side of the story, based on the words DeRo used it makes me think that his agent has told him he's been promised DP. So who knows what was actually being said between TFC and his agent.

FluSH
09-23-2009, 10:55 AM
so I guess the question is are you ok with Mo using these tactics?....I sure as hell am not.....let's face it here....Mo is not some kind of renegade who works all by himself.....he is supposed to be trying to build something here....and to build it, he will require a certain amount of trust for various reasons from various sources.....shit like this is not the best way to go about doing it, and eventually it will become a reputation if it repeats...

so far, this year ALONE we have had shady dealings with the Carver situation, Dichio, and now this too.....maybe people within our own club can't see Mo as a snake, but eventually people on the outside will....people who he has to negotiate with in order to get players to this club (if they haven't started to take notice already).......yes, you can look strictly at the "end result", but it is also important to look at the path that was taken to get there.....its called ethics, and if its not there, then I see a big problem coming....

Let's be real here... this happens in everyday life... all the time. Unfortunately it's magnified in sports because of the publication of salaries and contracts... There is no such thing as business ethics... That's all in lala land... at the end of the day A player retains an agent in order to deal with these ruthless tactics... I mean would I like every TFC Boss to have a hollistic approach at signing players.... yes. Is that going to happen? I don't think so....

AL-MO
09-23-2009, 11:02 AM
Where's J-MO? Get him on the case!!

TFC Tifoso
09-23-2009, 11:11 AM
Let's be real here... this happens in everyday life... all the time. Unfortunately it's magnified in sports because of the publication of salaries and contracts... There is no such thing as business ethics... That's all in lala land... at the end of the day A player retains an agent in order to deal with these ruthless tactics... I mean would I like every TFC Boss to have a hollistic approach at signing players.... yes. Is that going to happen? I don't think so....

fair enough its a difference of opinion, and I can accept that.....

but lets really look at things....DeRo and JDG were slam dunks.....DeRo because he had requested a trade here, and also, because of this new thing that has come to light, he was IN HIS OWN WORDS "stuck in a rock and a hard place" ie. he had no other options, really......same with JDG.....he had no other options, due to lack of interest.
BUT, when the time comes for MoJo to really earn his money, and a player has a CHOICE between TFC and another club who may do things more honestly, I feel that TFC will definitely lose out when all other factors are equal....

FluSH
09-23-2009, 11:24 AM
^^^^
You ever wonder why DeRo never went to Europe... this thread comes up ALL THE TIME. Sure DeRo should be pissed at Mo... but I think he needs to fire his agent... it wouldn't surprise me if DeRo's agent is a family member or closed friend... it's my only explination as to why he hasn't landed a role however small in Europe... unless of course it's by choice.

FluSH
09-23-2009, 11:27 AM
If Collin Samuel can play in top flight footy in the SPL... DeRo should have been where?... never mind I'm just glad and thankfull that we have him.

Blizzard
09-23-2009, 11:31 AM
Also, while it's interesting to get DeRo's perspective on his contract negotiation, he mentions MLS and TFC must have "come about" while he was telling Houston he wanted out.

My guess is that may have had less to do with Mo fucking him over, than it had to do with the league telling TFC/Mo that they weren't allowed to use their DP slot on a player that has been playing in this league as a non-DP, and at non-DP salary, his entire career - that wasn't what the DP rule was designed for.

Does anyone think it's far-fetched at all, that the league would deny TFC the right to use their DP slot on DeRo?

I suppose I feel kind of "bad" for DeRo, that we now have an actual DP that makes more than him, but DeRo is still one of the highest paid non-DP players in the league, and short of leaving the team, I'm not sure what else the guy wants. And what other team would pay him more than we currently do?

DeRo has special value to us, because he's a Canadian soccer icon, but he doesn't hold that same value anywhere else. He's still a great player - but is he worth $425k-$450K to another team in this league, under the current cap?

If the cap goes up for next season, then fine, give him a raise. But if not, I really think DeRo kind of needs to suck it up and move on. He signed on the dotted line for the salary he's getting now, and I don't think soothing his bruised ego, in that someone is now making more than him, is really prudent.

JDG has a higher pedigree as a player, than DeRo, therefore the league was probably okay with making him a DP. DeRo has been a lifer in MLS - it wouldn't shock me at all if MLS kiboshed the original plan.

- Scott

I would agree with this line of reasoning. Bump DeRo up to the new maximum when the cap rules change. Do what we can for the man but in terms of experience and achievement, as great as DeRo is, he can't expect to be making the type of money a La Liga veteran is going to get.

I agree with you. If they were looking at making DeRo the DP, it wouldn't surprise me at all of the league shot the plan down.

Blizzard
09-23-2009, 11:38 AM
^^^^
You ever wonder why DeRo never went to Europe... this thread comes up ALL THE TIME. Sure DeRo should be pissed at Mo... but I think he needs to fire his agent... it wouldn't surprise me if DeRo's agent is a family member or closed friend... it's my only explination as to why he hasn't landed a role however small in Europe... unless of course it's by choice.

He did go to Europe. Two seasons in Zwickau. He didn't play a heckuva lot and I recall there being issues with racism in the former East German city leading DeRo to come home to play in the USL with Richmond.

Of course the oft discussed story about Kevin Keegan wanting to bring DeRo to Manchester City and then resigning in a huff when the board said no. It was the final straw for Keegan who had been forced to endure their meddling in the past.

It would be interesting to know if he had turned down any interested European clubs. There had to inquiries at some point in time one would think.

But now that he's over 30, the ship to Europe has sailed without DeRo.

jloome
09-23-2009, 11:43 AM
He did go to Europe. Two seasons in Zwickau. He didn't play a heckuva lot and I recall there being issues with racism in the former East German city leading DeRo to come home to play in the USL with Richmond.

Of course the oft discussed story about Kevin Keegan wanting to bring DeRo to Manchester City and then resigning in a huff when the board said no. It was the final straw for Keegan who had been forced to endure their meddling in the past.

It would be interesting to know if he had turned down any interested European clubs. There had to inquiries at some point in time one would think.

But now that he's over 30, the ship to Europe has sailed without DeRo.

Blackburn Rovers wanted him the same season as Man City but the word on their boards was that fan pressure led to the idea being unnixed, because he was an unknown quanity to them.

Rudi
09-23-2009, 11:43 AM
He did go to Europe. Two seasons in Zwickau. He didn't play a heckuva lot and I recall there being issues with racism in the former East German city leading DeRo to come home to play in the USL with Richmond.

Of course the oft discussed story about Kevin Keegan wanting to bring DeRo to Manchester City and then resigning in a huff when the board said no. It was the final straw for Keegan who had been forced to endure their meddling in the past.

It would be interesting to know if he had turned down any interested European clubs. There had to inquiries at some point in time one would think.

But now that he's over 30, the ship to Europe has sailed without DeRo.
There was also the six-month contract on the table from Blackburn that DeRo walked away from because he didn't want to uproot his young family with no real certainty that he would be there for more than six month.

jloome
09-23-2009, 11:43 AM
Knew something about this awhile ago and didn't shock me at all, i actually did one of these :facepalm: and thought oh no MoJo has been up to his snake moves again lol

I really wanna see how it plays out coz DeRo will not just give up the team to Julian which might help the team BUT if Julian is shown too much favourtism it get to DeRo.

Does it not astound you, at this point, that people still haven't figured out that Mo is a snake?

jloome
09-23-2009, 11:45 AM
There was also the six-month contract on the table from Blackburn that DeRo walked away from because he didn't want to uproot his young family with no real certainty that he would be there for more than six month.

That makes sense. I wonder if the fan thing was involved at all -- as in why the deal was only six months -- because they certainly thought they had the pull at the time.

Blizzard
09-23-2009, 11:51 AM
That makes sense. I wonder if the fan thing was involved at all -- as in why the deal was only six months -- because they certainly thought they had the pull at the time.

Perhaps it was just through to the end of that season.

That had to be a tough decision for DeRo as it could have been a stepping stone to other big things but it's DeRo's life and DeRo's family and he has to do what he believes is best at the time.

Hopefully it doesn't haunt him at all.

Rudi
09-23-2009, 11:53 AM
That makes sense. I wonder if the fan thing was involved at all -- as in why the deal was only six months -- because they certainly thought they had the pull at the time.
Probably.

Just another case of the fans not knowing what's best for themselves, but thinking they do.

DeRo would have been a great immediate supersub for Blackburn., and he was still young enough back then to grow into a better overall player.

EDIT: As Blizzard stated above me, it was indeed a contract through the end of the season. DeRo trialed in England during the MLS off-season, so it would have been around January-ish when the contract was offered to him.

FluSH
09-23-2009, 11:54 AM
He did go to Europe. Two seasons in Zwickau. He didn't play a heckuva lot and I recall there being issues with racism in the former East German city leading DeRo to come home to play in the USL with Richmond.

Of course the oft discussed story about Kevin Keegan wanting to bring DeRo to Manchester City and then resigning in a huff when the board said no. It was the final straw for Keegan who had been forced to endure their meddling in the past.

It would be interesting to know if he had turned down any interested European clubs. There had to inquiries at some point in time one would think.

But now that he's over 30, the ship to Europe has sailed without DeRo.

and I stand corrected...maybe his agent ain't that bad!!! :D

Parkdale
09-23-2009, 12:10 PM
typical optimistic parkdale comment

Right now, DeRo is on the team, and so if JDG and a few other skilled players.
That's all that matter - they are on the team!

I'm sure that when the league realizes that you have to pay REAL professional
salaries to have a real professional league (if they haven't already figured that out)
then the purse strings will open and everyone will get paid what they are worth.

take a look at this: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

see how much a guy like Andrea Bargnani gets paid? More than all of TFC (DP included)
This isn't a case of cheap owners, it's a case of the league trying to protect itself from
the imbalance you get with rich owners in an 'open market' league (like MLB).

when the rules are updated, I think everyone will get what they deserve.

Pigfynn
09-23-2009, 12:15 PM
typical optimistic parkdale comment

Right now, DeRo is on the team, and so if JDG and a few other skilled players.
That's all that matter - they are on the team!

I'm sure that when the league realizes that you have to pay REAL professional
salaries to have a real professional league (if they haven't already figured that out)
then the purse strings will open and everyone will get paid what they are worth.

take a look at this: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

see how much a guy like Andrea Bargnani gets paid? More than all of TFC (DP included)
This isn't a case of cheap owners, it's a case of the league trying to protect itself from
the imbalance you get with rich owners in an 'open market' league (like MLB).

when the rules are updated, I think everyone will get what they deserve.

...within a sport that doesn't have anywhere near the TV revenues of other sports in NA.

Beach_Red
09-23-2009, 12:17 PM
Probably.

Just another case of the fans not knowing what's best for themselves, but thinking they do.




It wll be interesting to see how this plays out. Essentially we just saw Dichio (probably his agent) negotiate through the press with stories appearing about USL teams looking to hire him, fan outrage and he gets a contract for next year - which, officially, even the GM doesn't have.

So, now DeRo is going to negotiate through the press and look to fan support to make a deal.

You can't blame the players, they have to do what's best for themselves, but how will this affect the next GM looking for a job here - sure, you can make most of the player and coaching selection, but you have to keep the fan favourites.

As always, it's a lot easier for the owners to give fan favourites contracts than to win championships.

wzhxvy
09-23-2009, 12:22 PM
It wll be interesting to see how this plays out. Essentially we just saw Dichio (probably his agent) negotiate through the press with stories appearing about USL teams looking to hire him, fan outrage and he gets a contract for next year - which, officially, even the GM doesn't have.

So, now DeRo is going to negotiate through the press and look to fan support to make a deal.

You can't blame the players, they have to do what's best for themselves, but how will this affect the next GM looking for a job here - sure, you can make most of the player and coaching selection, but you have to keep the fan favourites.

As always, it's a lot easier for the owners to give fan favourites contracts than to win championships.

Yes poor Mo his hands are tied thats why we are in danger of not making the playoffs in the third year. You are ignoring all the noise and extra curicullar activity that has gone around the TFC FO over the last several years. This is not exactly a seamless operation.

The DD situation was a disgrace and the fools, whoever they are, were saved from themselves. If DD leaked stuff to the media to get it out..good for him..its not beyond the TFC FO to play the same game.

Parkdale
09-23-2009, 12:29 PM
it's a case of the league trying to protect itself from
the imbalance you get with rich owners in an 'open market' league


...within a sport that doesn't have anywhere near the TV revenues of other sports in NA.

Still though, if one team wants to dominate the league in profit making ventures like jersey sales, merchandise, TV rights etc, they know exactly what to do (hint, Beckham)

Yes soccer is smaller tier than basketball and hockey at the moment, but that could easily change in under a decade.

C.Ronaldo
09-23-2009, 12:36 PM
^ a certain french striker can make this league another shit load

Parkdale
09-23-2009, 12:38 PM
^ a certain french striker can make this league another shit load

Just imagine if he waited to sign with Montreal. FAWK that would piss me off.

trane
09-23-2009, 12:41 PM
[i]



Still though, if one team wants to dominate the league in profit making ventures like jersey sales, merchandise, TV rights etc, they know exactly what to do (hint, Beckham)

Yes soccer is smaller tier than basketball and hockey at the moment, but that could easily change in under a decade.

In this town, football can easily be the second sport. The sallary cap works against it.

I am somewhat pissed at Dero, renegotiating is OK, but bringing it out in the open with the season still on. Not a good move.

TFC Tifoso
09-23-2009, 01:22 PM
^^^^
You ever wonder why DeRo never went to Europe... this thread comes up ALL THE TIME. Sure DeRo should be pissed at Mo... but I think he needs to fire his agent... it wouldn't surprise me if DeRo's agent is a family member or closed friend... it's my only explination as to why he hasn't landed a role however small in Europe... unless of course it's by choice.

yes I understand this.....but it still doesn't make ok the fact that he was basically lied to by Mo.

Beach_Red
09-23-2009, 01:40 PM
Yes poor Mo his hands are tied thats why we are in danger of not making the playoffs in the third year. You are ignoring all the noise and extra curicullar activity that has gone around the TFC FO over the last several years. This is not exactly a seamless operation.

The DD situation was a disgrace and the fools, whoever they are, were saved from themselves. If DD leaked stuff to the media to get it out..good for him..its not beyond the TFC FO to play the same game.


Well, I work in TV so I probably have a different definition of "seamless operation," than you do. What I see as snake behaviour on a regular basis from producers and network execs would make even MLSE and Mo blush ;). I know how my own agent would respond to a "promise," that wasn't in the contract. I find it hard to believe that sports agents are any more naive.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-23-2009, 01:43 PM
Chad BArrett..VITTI...to Columbus...in exchange of there DP SPOT!!


= Everyone's happy! :)

SanStarko
09-23-2009, 02:32 PM
yes I understand this.....but it still doesn't make ok the fact that he was basically lied to by Mo.

Where does DeRo state he was lied to by Mo?

DeRo says "To my knowledge it was promised that I was going to be Designated Player" That sounds like he heard that information from somebody else, almost certainly from his agent.

And when it comes to agents I would take anything they say with a very large pinch of salt. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if an agent took a quote like "As long as the MLS sign off on it, he'll be our DP" and turned it into "They've promised you the DP spot" It's not exactly lying, it's just missing out a key bit of information.

Pigfynn
09-23-2009, 02:35 PM
Chad BArrett..VITTI...to Columbus...in exchange of there DP SPOT!!


= Everyone's happy! :)

Not sure Columbus would be :D

Shakes McQueen
09-23-2009, 02:40 PM
yes I understand this.....but it still doesn't make ok the fact that he was basically lied to by Mo.

How do you even know this? Your own cynicism towards Mo, or the ownership?

All DeRo said, was that after he told Houston he wanted out, the league and/or Mo obviously changed their tune. For all we know, it was either a) an inexplicable decision by Mo to "screw over" his OWN PLAYER, that would be playing with him for several years, or b) a decision consistent with decisions MLS has made regarding players like Kenny Cooper, not to allow TFC to use the DP slot on DeRo.

And to the people saying "well, surely Mo knew they wouldn't let him beforehand". Really? How many occasions have we seen where the league has held up a deal unexpectedly after all but their approval has been worked out?

DeRo comes to TFC for a long-term contract, that includes a huge raise over what he was making in Houston, and people are calling Mo a snake because there was obviously some disagreement with the league over whether they could use the DP slot on him?

How about this - until any of us has a goddamn clue as to what happened regarding giving DeRo the DP slot, why not temper some of that cynicism?

I said the same thing when people were being ridiculously cynical about MLSE's commitment to getting grass, and when they said MLSE would never shell out for a DP because they already profit off the club, and when they said MLSE would never bring in a top tier club for a friendly (granted that was a total botch job with the ridiculous ticket prices).

To my mind, it would make no sense for Mo to jack a player he's going to have in his locker room for years. It'd be more consistent with objective reality, for MLS to have decided that TFC wasn't allowed to use the DP slot on DeRo, and so they worked out a new deal instead.

A DEAL WHICH DERO PUT PEN TO PAPER ON, lest we forget. It wasn't like Mo tricked DeRo into leaving Houston, then signed him to a bad contract - he got an immense raise, and is probably the best paid non-DP player in the league, behind Landycakes, and maybe Schellotto.

- Scott

Rudi
09-23-2009, 03:04 PM
^ Schellotto's a DP.

Remember also that it took some doing just to convince the MLS offices that JDG was worthy of a DP spot. They didn't think he was a big enough name.

Shakes McQueen
09-23-2009, 03:08 PM
^ Schellotto's a DP.

Is he officially? I was always under the impression that GBS has some kind of strange, under the table contract, that allows him to be paid considerably well, without taking up their DP slot.


Remember also that it took some doing just to convince the MLS offices that JDG was worthy of a DP spot. They didn't think he was a big enough name.

Exactly. And yet some people are just assuming it's more reasonable that Mo screwed his new signing, and not that MLS decided the DP slot couldn't be used to give a lifelong MLS player a giant raise.

- Scott

boban
09-23-2009, 03:18 PM
^ Schellotto's a DP.

Remember also that it took some doing just to convince the MLS offices that JDG was worthy of a DP spot. They didn't think he was a big enough name.
I don't either. But what's done is done.

Rudi
09-23-2009, 03:24 PM
Is he officially? I was always under the impression that GBS has some kind of strange, under the table contract, that allows him to be paid considerably well, without taking up their DP slot.
He was during '07 and '08, when Columbus was paying him allocation money to keep him under the DP salary range. That allocation money ran out last year, and Schellotto re-signed on a one-year DP contract.

He's likely to re-sign again for 2010.

Section 117
09-23-2009, 03:25 PM
From my understanding when the discussion with Dero about coming to Toronto MLS would not give Dero DP money the same way as they wouldn't give Cooper DP money. BUT... I heard that MO promised Dero that he would be the highest paid player on the team.

So is Mo being a snake??? Let's look at what has transpired:

He signs the majority of the players from one agent
We have had 3 coaches in 3 years - one quit cause the MLS ***wink, wink ****
The face of the franchise gets rail roaded into retirement

what do you guys think?

Shakes McQueen
09-23-2009, 03:41 PM
From my understanding when the discussion with Dero about coming to Toronto MLS would not give Dero DP money the same way as they wouldn't give Cooper DP money. BUT... I heard that MO promised Dero that he would be the highest paid player on the team.

And he was by a wide margin, at the time. But really... who cares? If JDG will make the team better, why would DeRo care who makes the most on the team? Did he just expect we wouldn't bring in a DP player for four years? Suppose some well-known international playmaker like a Beckham becomes available to TFC - should Mo just say "sorry, we promised DeRo he'd make the most money on the team"?

Assuming this is even true, it's just egotistical nonsense. Regardless of what JDG makes, DeRo is still being just as well compensated as he was four months ago.

Plus, DeRo didn't seem at all bothered by JDG making more than him on the show.

- Scott
]

Section 117
09-23-2009, 03:53 PM
Shakes

I don't disagree with you as Dero is making decent money to play here as he never established himself in Europe ala JDG.

To argue the flip side who is a more important piece to the team our leading scorer or JDG. This IMO is what the issue is more than anything. You get a guy who is our leading scorer and you give DP money to a DM?

I can see where Dero would be upset and from everything I heard Mo promised the world to Dero and pretty much changed everything once he agreed to come.

Rudi
09-23-2009, 04:04 PM
Everything he promised would be in the contract that DeRo signed, no?

Shakes McQueen
09-23-2009, 04:06 PM
Everything he promised would be in the contract that DeRo signed, no?

You would think.

- Scott

Broadview
09-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Everything he promised would be in the contract that DeRo signed, no?

Right. There's no way Mo and Dero could have had any conversations regarding a possible move to Toronto while he was under contract to another team, Houston.

That would be tampering!

DreFuss
09-23-2009, 04:42 PM
http://blog.canoe.ca/inyourgrill?disp=videos

CretanBull
09-23-2009, 04:43 PM
Mo lied? This is shocking news!

Rudi
09-23-2009, 04:46 PM
It's not "news" at all.

It's theorizing.

ensco
09-23-2009, 04:51 PM
It was always curious that DeRo got a 4 year contract, as 30 year old football players generally have significant performance declines. The length of that contract was a way to get the total dollars up, because I doubt his value in year 4 will be that high

(although I wish to God someone could explain to me how contracts work in MLS, are you on the hook for all 4 years in all scenarios, or not?)

FluSH
09-23-2009, 05:21 PM
Listen... last year everyone was calling for DeRo... Mo got us DeRo. Then everyone is calling for JDG... Mo gets us JDG. The Dichio 'retirement' was a blemish on his tenure, but he can minimize that damage by maybe doing something unprecedented... a memorial match or something greater... Mo has definately played his cards right... and frankly... how can you not extend his contract... he's produced which is something his strikers have not... but he has produced.

FluSH
09-23-2009, 05:30 PM
Ok All this time I've been commenting without watching the video...

I just saw the Video!!!

First of all GW was instigating shit... I mean those questions were just wrong... you could tell when the first line dropped that DeRO took a deep breath as trying to brace for the question.

"because it seems kind of weird to a lot of onlookers...because you more fit the typical designated kind of mold... you are the goal scorer... you're the guy who creates..."

Man that leading question is just wrong...

trane
09-23-2009, 05:42 PM
^ I completely agree with that, when I heard that I was realy pissed at him. Gareth Wheeler is not a person I like. That was exacatly my reaction. I thought that De Ro shold ignore, but Gareth was instigating, and if this was a set up by an agent it was just stupid.

Marco2K
09-23-2009, 05:46 PM
It all makes so much sense. remember how he went missing for weeks after he signed.

Beach_Red
09-23-2009, 06:00 PM
Listen... last year everyone was calling for DeRo... Mo got us DeRo. Then everyone is calling for JDG... Mo gets us JDG. The Dichio 'retirement' was a blemish on his tenure, but he can minimize that damage by maybe doing something unprecedented... a memorial match or something greater... Mo has definately played his cards right... and frankly... how can you not extend his contract... he's produced which is something his strikers have not... but he has produced.

They gave him a job. That's a much bigger deal for a guy with a young family. Has anyone actually asked Dichio what he wants? Most of what I've seen on here is what people here want themselves, what they think Dichio should want.

FluSH
09-24-2009, 07:53 AM
They gave him a job. That's a much bigger deal for a guy with a young family. Has anyone actually asked Dichio what he wants? Most of what I've seen on here is what people here want themselves, what they think Dichio should want.

In my opinon that was more to save face. The fans would want and demand to see Dichio at some point with the TFC organization... so I don't really think 'they gave him a job' is accurate... he earned it... and we want him there.

Also, I'll call Dichio tomorrow... let me just pull up his number here from my phone... yeah... I'll ask him what he wants and report back to you.

rocker
09-24-2009, 08:23 AM
Has anyone actually asked Dichio what he wants? Most of what I've seen on here is what people here want themselves, what they think Dichio should want.

This is a good question.

I think fans love to "project" their own desires and concerns on the situation, or guess what's going on. But most people have no clue what's going on.
I'd like to know exactly what Dichio wanted and thinks of the situation. Of course, he has to keep quiet since he's a team guy. But that means I cannot speculate on what he really wants.
I guess until/if he ever severs his relationship with the team, we'll hear his thoughts. Or maybe one of those fine soccer journalists like Gareth Wheeler (!) could dig around and get some real juice off the record. But nobody has done that.

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 08:28 AM
People called me an idiot, but I said this JDG signing would piss someone off in the dressing room and I hinted at DeRo. Very few people believed me, well... still dismiss the idea folks?

You can't have a DP quality player, who's proving it on the field... be completely happy when there's another DP player on the team making a shit ton more money. Regardless of JDG's play for the rest of the season, if I was DeRo, I would be at the minimum... slightly pissed at those running the team.


I agreed with you at the time and from what I have heard this was going to be an issue from the start right when the JDG talks started happening. While Julian and DeRo may be friends, this is not an issue between them as much as it is between DeRo and management. THis is about fair compensation for the production on the pitch. Being among the top five scorers in the league and coming through in the clutch like he has in games vs Colorado, Montreal etc. the team is going to have a hard time justifying why DeRo shouldn't ask for more money. He gets paid less than half of what Donovan gets paid and yet his production is just as effective.

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 08:29 AM
Ok All this time I've been commenting without watching the video...

I just saw the Video!!!

First of all GW was instigating shit... I mean those questions were just wrong... you could tell when the first line dropped that DeRO took a deep breath as trying to brace for the question.

"because it seems kind of weird to a lot of onlookers...because you more fit the typical designated kind of mold... you are the goal scorer... you're the guy who creates..."

Man that leading question is just wrong...

That interview made me cringe.

Beach_Red
09-24-2009, 08:41 AM
This is a good question.

I think fans love to "project" their own desires and concerns on the situation, or guess what's going on. But most people have no clue what's going on.
I'd like to know exactly what Dichio wanted and thinks of the situation. Of course, he has to keep quiet since he's a team guy. But that means I cannot speculate on what he really wants.
I guess until/if he ever severs his relationship with the team, we'll hear his thoughts. Or maybe one of those fine soccer journalists like Gareth Wheeler (!) could dig around and get some real juice off the record. But nobody has done that.


Yes, it's all spculation. We can start to sound like Donald Rumsfled, "There are the known knowns, the known unknowns..." so all we can do is look at what happened. Danny Dichio is a talented guy with a coaching lisence, right? If he really felt badly towards TFC he'd be coaching the Austin Whateverthey'recalleds or somewhere else. He's not a helpless guy with no options. He took the one he liked best.

Sports is a tough buniess, guys get cut, they get fired, they get dropped with nothing. That didn't happen here.

FluSH
09-24-2009, 08:44 AM
That interview made me cringe.

I'm surprised more people aren't up in arms at GW... complete scum questions... Does he try to pull that crap with The Raptors team...

"You know... why is CB4 getting so much more money Andrea...? you should be the one..."

There are certain questions that are off limits... that was one of them.

TFC Tifoso
09-24-2009, 08:51 AM
I'm surprised more people aren't up in arms at GW... complete scum questions... Does he try to pull that crap with The Raptors team...

"You know... why is CB4 getting so much more money Andrea...? you should be the one..."

There are certain questions that are off limits... that was one of them.


and DeRo had the chance to give a "vanilla" answer or decline all together....instead he sang like a bird.....safe to say he doesn't think much of some of the TFC hierarchy, and wants to let a few people know about it...

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 08:54 AM
and DeRo had the chance to give a "vanilla" answer or decline all together....instead he sang like a bird.....safe to say he doesn't think much of some of the TFC hierarchy, and wants to let a few people know about it...

I'd have to agree with this.

Beach_Red
09-24-2009, 09:03 AM
I'd have to agree with this.

Yes. Just like he was outspoken about grass.

ManUtd4ever
09-24-2009, 09:36 AM
Gareth Wheeler is a piece of shit who would try to provoke a feud in the TFC locker room for the sake of his ratings. Thankfully, DeRo has too much class to bite...

GW, I sincerely hope you're reading this thread. You've been a joke of a football journalist in this city since day one. Do us all a favour and ply your trade elsewhere...

olegunnar
09-24-2009, 09:45 AM
Gareth Wheeler is a piece of shit who would try to provoke a feud in the TFC locker room for the sake of his ratings. Thankfully, DeRo has too much class to bite...

GW, I sincerely hope you're reading this thread. You've been a joke of a football journalist in this city since day one. Do us all a favour and ply your trade elsewhere...

Do you think he picked questions out of thin air?
If so what planet do you live on?
He asked the questions that most people had heard the rumours of.

Who knows...for all we know DeRo willingly let the rumours out, then used Wheeler as a medium to get them out in the mainstream media.

How is this interview any different that reporters asking about Dichio not playing?

ManUtd4ever
09-24-2009, 09:56 AM
Do you think he picked questions out of thin air?
If so what planet do you live on?
He asked the questions that most people had heard the rumours of.

Who knows...for all we know DeRo willingly let the rumours out, then used Wheeler as a medium to get them out in the mainstream media.

How is this interview any different that reporters asking about Dichio not playing?

If you want to defend his tactics that is your perogative. It was obvious that DeRo was uncomfortable with the general line of questioning so to insinuate that he was using Wheeler to air his own feelings about TFC management is ridiculous...

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 10:05 AM
I don't think any of us can say for sure which side of the table wanted that question asked (both sides have an obvious agenda), but I do know this, the WAY it was asked was wholly unprofessional.

The question can and should be asked, but not in a way that pigeon-holes DeRo into an answer that can only result in locker-room consequences.

I would say both sides need coaching on political-style speaking. Some facts can get out into the general public but through tactful yet concise methods.

FluSH
09-24-2009, 10:08 AM
Do you think he picked questions out of thin air?
If so what planet do you live on?
He asked the questions that most people had heard the rumours of.

Who knows...for all we know DeRo willingly let the rumours out, then used Wheeler as a medium to get them out in the mainstream media.

How is this interview any different that reporters asking about Dichio not playing?


If that's the case it's downright wrong... in the middle of this do or die push for the playoffs to go on and complain about your pay in regards to your team mates?

FluSH
09-24-2009, 10:13 AM
and DeRo had the chance to give a "vanilla" answer or decline all together....instead he sang like a bird.....safe to say he doesn't think much of some of the TFC hierarchy, and wants to let a few people know about it...

He should have declined to comment... You know what some people are saying that DeRo will never have the same status as Dichio no matter how many goals DeRo gets... and it ain't becuase of the first goal... it's more about the person.

ManUtd4ever
09-24-2009, 10:15 AM
I don't think any of us can say for sure which side of the table wanted that question asked (both sides have an obvious agenda), but I do know this, the WAY it was asked was wholly unprofessional.

The question can and should be asked, but not in a way that pigeon-holes DeRo into an answer that can only result in locker-room consequences.

I would say both sides need coaching on political-style speaking. Some facts can get out into the general public but through tactful yet concise methods.

Exactly...

v00d00daddy
09-24-2009, 10:21 AM
Just watched the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o2asnddx-s&videos=8JxRjaUScF8

It's hard to tell if the story is actually there or if Wheeler is "creating" it to make his show more interesting.

DeRo gave the right answers about JDG making more money but I found what he said around the 1:20 mark of the video very interesting:

"I told them, let my play do the talking and at the end of the year well...."

and then Wheeler cuts him off.

DeRo said that he was told he would be the DP for Toronto but it didn't work out for whatever reason....but he still feels it may happen.

Kinda weird. Is he expecting to be a 2nd DP?

In any event...I understand that Wheeler is going to say that he was just asking the "tough" questions but it came off as pretty slimy to me.

At the end of the interview I thought to myself...."what was the point of that?"

and came to the conclusion ....it was to stir shit up...which is not cool.

TFC Tifoso
09-24-2009, 10:24 AM
He should have declined to comment... You know what some people are saying that DeRo will never have the same status as Dichio no matter how many goals DeRo gets... and it ain't becuase of the first goal... it's more about the person.


I don't disagree......but I also don't think that it is the message that is wrong (ie. Mo is an ass) but moreso the timing of this......

as for the other part.....I have to say, that I see absolutely nothing wrong with how outspoken DeRo has been this year....why? because IMO he's been right, or at least in line with how I feel (re. grass, the Real Madrid "embarrassment, and now this).....he's said nothing to throw people under the bus or say false things....he has, for the most part, said a lot of the things we have voiced concerns over.

let's face it....DeRo nearly single-handedly won us the cup in Montreal and is far and away our club's leading scorer.....we would be fucked without him, plain and simple.....the way I see it, this is his way of saying, "here is how you treat star players" (not jost him, but in general), and frankly its a lesson that could be learned by a few in the organization if they wish to attract stars in the future...

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 10:31 AM
The issue of how to treat a "star" player seems to be a problem with TFC.

They are good at administrating this team...but I think they are missing that "certain something" when it comes to making the players on this team feel like they are professional athletes, let alone star athletes.

I asked this in another thread a couple of months ago, but if you go to Houston, LA, DC...you see huge banners outside the stadium of Donovan, Beckham, Gallardo (last year, I dunno about his year), Moreno and in Houston they had one of DeRo. Where is ours of Danny? DeRo? Robbo?

LA prances Beckham around on major networks, markets him like crazy. What marketing does TFC do for our star players? The Score Sunday morning? I am not even sure that is TFC initiated. The Grill Room? Who watches that? I know I don't until this DeRo interview.

So yeah, I can see star players begin to complain. And I tell you this, star players will continue to avoid coming to Toronto unless the attitude of the Front Office changes. JDG came here because he had no other choice he liked. Don't think for a second lightning strikes twice and we will get another European player come here unless we are willing to pay buckets of money, because they certainly won't come here to improve their brand or image. They will get no help on that front.

TFC Tifoso
09-24-2009, 10:42 AM
The issue of how to treat a "star" player seems to be a problem with TFC.

They are good at administrating this team...but I think they are missing that "certain something" when it comes to making the players on this team feel like they are professional athletes, let alone star athletes.

I asked this in another thread a couple of months ago, but if you go to Houston, LA, DC...you see huge banners outside the stadium of Donovan, Beckham, Gallardo (last year, I dunno about his year), Moreno and in Houston they had one of DeRo. Where is ours of Danny? DeRo? Robbo?

LA prances Beckham around on major networks, markets him like crazy. What marketing does TFC do for our star players? The Score Sunday morning? I am not even sure that is TFC initiated. The Grill Room? Who watches that? I know I don't until this DeRo interview.

So yeah, I can see star players begin to complain. And I tell you this, star players will continue to avoid coming to Toronto unless the attitude of the Front Office changes. JDG came here because he had no other choice he liked. Don't think for a second lightning strikes twice and we will get another European player come here unless we are willing to pay buckets of money, because they certainly won't come here to improve their brand or image. They will get no help on that front.


These two comments are spot on...

Also, let's not forget...DeRo came from Houston, one of the best run clubs in MLS top to bottom.....sometimes it must seem like a bizzaro world to him over here....and I'm sure he's taken a thing or two about how a team does things right....

olegunnar
09-24-2009, 10:43 AM
All I know is these rumours have been around since the delay from announcement he was coming to the introduction press conference. When was that? Feb? March?

They kind of went away because they were moot.

They resurfaced again this summer (louder this time and from more people) when the JDG stuff appeared. The exact same info was even posted in the JDG thread by people that have good sources. I guess people we're too busy showing they believed" to read the whole thread.

What is wrong with a journo doing their job and following up? Who better to ask, then the person the rumours are about?

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 10:48 AM
These two comments are spot on...

Also, let's not forget...DeRo came from Houston, one of the best run clubs in MLS top to bottom.....sometimes it must seem like a bizzaro world to him over here....and I'm sure he's taken a thing or two about how a team does things right....

Despite public reassurances from DeRo, I have to wonder if privately he is doubting whether this move was a good one. Right now, he'd be helping lead Houston into the playoffs and likely into a Finals appearance.

However, with a really cheap Holden waiting in the wings, perhaps it was the right time. Still...the doubts must persist...going from Houston to Toronto is like going from the Detroit Red Wings to the Atlanta Thrashers.

v00d00daddy
09-24-2009, 10:50 AM
All I know is these rumours have been around since the delay from announcement he was coming to the introduction press conference. When was that? Feb? March?

They kind of went away because they were moot.

They resurfaced again this summer (louder this time and from more people) when the JDG stuff appeared. The exact same info was even posted in the JDG thread by people that have good sources. I guess people we're too busy showing they believed" to read the whole thread.

What is wrong with a journo doing their job and following up? Who better to ask, then the person the rumours are about?


What's the point of asking DeRo if JDG's pay bothers him? If it does bother him, he's not going to tell Wheeler the truth....so in the end...what purpose does it serve, other than stirring the shit and creating more uncertainty.

Wheeler sat down with DeRo and there was nothing said that had a positive spin on it. Even the compliments were somewhat backhanded.

Hey DeRo...you're great and score a lot of goals for the team....but.....how do you feel about a DM being the DP?

Again...what was the point of that line of questioning?

If Wheeler was digging for the truth I would have preffered if he had asked DeRo a question like:

What do you REALLY think TFC's chances are of making the playoffs this year?
Were the playoffs a goal of yours and the teams this year?
What happens to you and the rest of the team if/when TFC don't make the playoffs?

Still negative and stirring the shit but at least now he'd be talking about the actual team and the product on the field.

Isn't that more interesting than whether or not DeRo is pissy about JDG making more money than him?

TFC Tifoso
09-24-2009, 10:53 AM
Despite public reassurances from DeRo, I have to wonder if privately he is doubting whether this move was a good one. Right now, he'd be helping lead Houston into the playoffs and likely into a Finals appearance.

However, with a really cheap Holden waiting in the wings, perhaps it was the right time. Still...the doubts must persist...going from Houston to Toronto is like going from the Detroit Red Wings to the Atlanta Thrashers.

Possibly, but to me, DeRo has shown great respect for the club (and by "the club" I mean the colours and the badge)....remember when stories first broke when he was traded here, it also came out that he requested the trade last season, but Houston wanted to keep him around for their playoff run....althogh I doubt he had any idea of how dysfunctional things are upstairs with TFC....

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 10:53 AM
I disagree Voodoo...it is a valid question, one that people want asked, and Wheeler should have asked it. But he should have done so professionally. That interview was far from professional IMHO.

Beach_Red
09-24-2009, 11:00 AM
However, with a really cheap Holden waiting in the wings, perhaps it was the right time. Still...the doubts must persist...going from Houston to Toronto is like going from the Detroit Red Wings to the Atlanta Thrashers.

Sure, but it's not like he really had a choice. At the time people felt there must have been interference fom the league to get him to Toronto because Houston got so little in return - though they seem to be doing okay without him. Maybe it was decent of them to grant him his wish to go "home," maybe there weren't any other offers or maybe the league really did get involved.

It's reasonable that a player does whatever he can to make the best of his situation. And it's reasonable that the team tries to get players as cheply as they can. It's business.

If there are no competing offers you don't have much negotiating strength (still why I think Dichio made sure there was talk of other offers).

Marginal Leafs players have used fan support n tis city to get great deals out of MLSE (guys like Tucker and Domi, etc.,) and I would hate to see TFC go down that road. In two and a half years we seem to have half dozen players we want to reward with lifetime contracts in the front office. Where will be in ten years?

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 11:03 AM
Houston had no idea that they were going to do as well without him, although you have to think they felt comfortable enough to let him go that they wouldn't sink without him. Houston has been a surprise in the league this year as nobody had them pegged to be this successful. Most figured they would have an off-year.

And DeRo had no offers because Toronto was always the only destination he was going to leave Houston for. DeRo is huge with the Dynamo fanbase and if Toronto did not come along, he was going to stay there.

v00d00daddy
09-24-2009, 11:04 AM
I disagree Voodoo...it is a valid question, one that people want asked, and Wheeler should have asked it. But he should have done so professionally. That interview was far from professional IMHO.

You're right...it is a valid question..and I agree with you about the shitty way it was asked.

I just don't get why people want to know if DeRo is upset about JDG's pay. People were talking about it in the JDG thread long before the signing was announced or even confirmed.

Some people on this board get on others for being negative and then this shit happens? I find it weird that being negative about the product on the field can be taboo sometimes but bringing this stuff up is okay.

Sure...maybe DeRo felt slighted about how much JDG was being offered...and maybe rightly so...but one thing is for sure...supporters talking about it...and wanting to know about it (as Wheeler states in his interview) did not help the situation.

Why don't we question the tactical decisions made by this team and the effort put in, and the end results on the field? Why are we interested if players feelings are hurt by things happening off the field? That's what I don't get.

Rudi
09-24-2009, 11:27 AM
The issue of how to treat a "star" player seems to be a problem with TFC.

They are good at administrating this team...but I think they are missing that "certain something" when it comes to making the players on this team feel like they are professional athletes, let alone star athletes.

I asked this in another thread a couple of months ago, but if you go to Houston, LA, DC...you see huge banners outside the stadium of Donovan, Beckham, Gallardo (last year, I dunno about his year), Moreno and in Houston they had one of DeRo. Where is ours of Danny? DeRo? Robbo?

LA prances Beckham around on major networks, markets him like crazy. What marketing does TFC do for our star players? The Score Sunday morning? I am not even sure that is TFC initiated. The Grill Room? Who watches that? I know I don't until this DeRo interview.

So yeah, I can see star players begin to complain. And I tell you this, star players will continue to avoid coming to Toronto unless the attitude of the Front Office changes. JDG came here because he had no other choice he liked. Don't think for a second lightning strikes twice and we will get another European player come here unless we are willing to pay buckets of money, because they certainly won't come here to improve their brand or image. They will get no help on that front.
While I generally agree with what you're saying, the bolded part is nuts.

DeRo is nowhere near the media darling that Beckham is. Come on, man.

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 11:32 AM
Nobody can be marketed like Beckham. But the point is that you still need to market your stars.

Is Moreno on the same level as Beckham? And yet he is marketed by DC United.

Don't confuse degrees with intent. Beckham is a global star, a big fish in a big pond. DeRo is barely recognizeable as a Canadian athlete...a big fish in a little pond...but to whatever degree he is known, recognized and appreciated, you have to maxmize that potential. TFC haven't. Not even close to it. That's my only point.

And unless that that attitude change, bigger stars will hesitate to come. Say for example Beckham wasn't looking at LA, that he had been looking at Toronto for some crazy reason...do you think TFC could have done the same job that LA has in terms of marketing him? I would say almost definitely not. And other athletes and agents will see that and skip over Toronto like a red-headed step-child.

Rudi
09-24-2009, 11:41 AM
Even if DeRo had a big billboard ad, Wheeler would just grill him on what he thinks about DeGuzman's bigger billboard. :D

TFC07
09-24-2009, 11:46 AM
I agree that TFC needs to do a better job of marketing their players.

Anyway, I hope this off-season doesn't turn ugly. Potential conflict between DeRo and JDG is last thing we need right now.

Roogsy
09-24-2009, 11:55 AM
Even if DeRo had a big billboard ad, Wheeler would just grill him on what he thinks about DeGuzman's bigger billboard. :D

LOL!

Still...can we at least look forward to a time when TFC actually puts one up at all regardless of size? We can let the players worry about "whose is bigger" afterwards. :D


I agree that TFC needs to do a better job of marketing their players.

Anyway, I hope this off-season doesn't turn ugly. Potential conflict between DeRo and JDG is last thing we need right now.

They are both professionals and I doubt this will cause strife between the two as they have known each other for a long time.

As for whether this will cause problems between DeRo and TFC management is probably a bigger worry.

Rudi
09-24-2009, 12:02 PM
DeRo is undervalued in this league, IMO. He should probably be making around the same as Schellotto (around $800k).

Regardless, DeRo signed a four year contract (presumably in good faith) agreeing to the current terms of his deal. Publicly complaining about that, even though he was baited by that douchebag Wheeler, is a bit of a childish move, IMO.

Was DeRo that naive to think that he could sign a four year deal and it would be renegotiated at the end of year one? Or is he already angling for a bigger deal?

No one knows but him.

Regardless, Wheeler is a hack and a shit disturber. But we all already knew that.

TFC Tifoso
09-24-2009, 12:04 PM
I agree that TFC needs to do a better job of marketing their players.

Anyway, I hope this off-season doesn't turn ugly. Potential conflict between DeRo and JDG is last thing we need right now.

nah....if there is a conflict, I see it happening between DeRo and management.....

Shakes McQueen
09-24-2009, 12:17 PM
DeRo is undervalued in this league, IMO. He should probably be making around the same as Schellotto (around $800k).

Regardless, DeRo signed a four year contract (presumably in good faith) agreeing to the current terms of his deal. Publicly complaining about that, even though he was baited by that douchebag Wheeler, is a bit of a childish move, IMO.

Was DeRo that naive to think that he could sign a four year deal and it would be renegotiated at the end of year one? Or is he already angling for a bigger deal?

No one knows but him.

Regardless, Wheeler is a hack and a shit disturber. But we all already knew that.

This post should be the beginning and end of this thread, as far as I'm concerned, haha.

He signed a deal, regardless of whatever was said, or promised, or what have you. He chose to sign the deal.

And Gareth Wheeler is a shithead.

- Scott

Broadview
09-24-2009, 01:03 PM
Wheeler's annoying as can be...but he does do a good job of scouring the message boards and spouting the consensus and oft repeated prickly themes.

That said, this is the closest he's ever come to "breaking" a story that I can remember. And the line between breaking a story and merely shit disturbing like Rudi said is dubious at best.

I love Dero, always will, but it always pisses me off when pro athletes complain about the contracts they signed. Wheeler asked him if he had the option to renegotiate after one year he said "No but technically yes...ha ha ha". To me the implication there is that he could hold out for more dough next season. That could be a disaster for everybody and I hope to hell it never comes to that.