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Manutd #1
09-19-2009, 11:43 PM
When will CC realise that we cannot play 1 striker up front the best teams in the world cant play one up front, I remember the year Man Utd came 3rd they always played Van Nistolroy by himself and they struggled...Gerba needs a fast paced striker to play with him(white would be are only option) I know dero attacks but I like him playing behind the strikers he goes offside toooo much(leading the league)

For the next game which lets be honest we need at least 9 or 10 points from the next 4 games to even have a chance at the playoffs so why not switch it up if we lose fine but we need to score a tie isnt good enough anymore.


my formation would be (assuming everyone is fit)

Nana Serioux Gomez Brennen
Robinson
Dero Geuvara JDG
White Gerba


I think dero guevara and jdg could easily control the mid and dero can make some attacking runs, they can also play anywhere in the mid depending on how the game is going...i think it is a good balance between attack and defence with robinson sitting behind deguzman it will give him a better chance to go forward like in the 2007 gold cup

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-19-2009, 11:54 PM
we have to play what we got...and we dont have any quality strikers.
that will have to be addressed in the off season..in the midfield, DeRo and guevara were absent again tonight.. on a brighter note Gerba and JDG
played well, Frei was great as usual and Wynne was good..

Manutd #1
09-20-2009, 12:01 AM
i thought guevara linked with jdg nicely dero wasnt absent oh wait maybe u coudlnt see him because usually u are off camera when u are offside all game lol

we have 2 quality strikers in gerba and white....coaching is ruinin gerba he needs to be played off someone like white.....we do need at least 1 more solid striker

VPjr
09-20-2009, 12:10 AM
Gerba scores lots of goals as lone striker for CMNT

its called lack of service

did you see that pass JDG made into Gerba's feet...he turned, took a good shot but ricketts made an excellent save.

DeRo is a poor distributor...he holds the ball too long...looks for his own shot too much

guevara has been very inneffective for many weeks

White is not going to make gerba better

what makes anyone think Mo is going to be able to find a quality striker when they will be pushing up against the salary cap next season. goal scorers cost money.

Cummins has shown me that he is unable to impose his will on his team and has little options to punish players who don't do what he wants.

this is the same problem all year....the pieces on this team don't fit together.

dow117
09-20-2009, 12:13 AM
we have to play what we got...and we dont have any quality strikers.
that will have to be addressed in the off season..in the midfield, DeRo and guevara were absent again tonight.. on a brighter note Gerba and JDG
played well, Frei was great as usual and Wynne was good..
I don't know what game you were watching but Guevera played a decent game and linked up with JDG well. These 2 actually hold the ball and move it intelligently... the odd pass may be poor but with the amount of time that they have the ball, it pales in comparison to others ( like Barret ) who give the ball away easily.
"Frei was great ??? ... average maybe. Dero saved a sure goal in bactracking to defence on a few occasions...

Azerban
09-20-2009, 12:34 AM
mighty_torontofc_2008 can even spell the names of our players right

put in some fucking effort

ilikemusic
09-20-2009, 12:49 AM
Because he isnt capable.

Manutd #1
09-20-2009, 11:05 AM
I don't know what game you were watching but Guevera played a decent game and linked up with JDG well. These 2 actually hold the ball and move it intelligently... the odd pass may be poor but with the amount of time that they have the ball, it pales in comparison to others ( like Barret ) who give the ball away easily.
"Frei was great ??? ... average maybe. Dero saved a sure goal in bactracking to defence on a few occasions...


Why does everyone on this board feel the need to take digs on barret, yea he missed some easy chances 3 months ago, but it isnt like our other strikers are lighting it up out there.........also i think since he moved to the left he has been better...yea he probably does make too much for what he does but his salary was given when he was in form not now, yes maybe he shouldnt start but we dont exactly have the greatest depth...he also played pretty well yesterday......but I honestly think he could score a goal a game for the last 4 seasons bring us to the playoffs and people would still hate so i guess it is what it is

Beach_Red
09-20-2009, 11:18 AM
what makes anyone think Mo is going to be able to find a quality striker when they will be pushing up against the salary cap next season. goal scorers cost money.



Who is the best striker in this league?

We all hope to see a lot of salary dumped at the end of the this year, but will it make much of a difference? The best we can hope for is a $3-400,000 striker.

At this point LA are looking good to go deep into the playoffs. Are they really that much better players than TFC?

There's a core of players on TFC that, for MLS standars, is very good and may help to attract a quality coach. There are a lot of coaches out there who are sure they could get a lot more points out of this roster - we all know that. And some of them are probably right.

Of course, MLSE will have to pay up.

arbogast
09-20-2009, 12:13 PM
When will CC realise that we cannot play 1 striker up front the best teams in the world cant play one up front, I remember the year Man Utd came 3rd they always played Van Nistolroy by himself and they struggled...Gerba needs a fast paced striker to play with him(white would be are only option) I know dero attacks but I like him playing behind the strikers he goes offside toooo much(leading the league)

For the next game which lets be honest we need at least 9 or 10 points from the next 4 games to even have a chance at the playoffs so why not switch it up if we lose fine but we need to score a tie isnt good enough anymore.


my formation would be (assuming everyone is fit)

Nana Serioux Gomez Brennen
Robinson
Dero Geuvara JDG
White Gerba


I think dero guevara and jdg could easily control the mid and dero can make some attacking runs, they can also play anywhere in the mid depending on how the game is going...i think it is a good balance between attack and defence with robinson sitting behind deguzman it will give him a better chance to go forward like in the 2007 gold cup

Dude, lots of teams use a 4-5-1 hybrid. Look at Cheslea under Jose Mourinho, they used that system effectively, Liverpool use Torres alone up front with Gerrard in behind. It works well for a posession game cuz you can move to a 4-3-3 when in attack and revert to 4-5-1 when your defending. It's one of the most commonly used formations in Europe. White's a poacher, not a set up guy so playing him with Gerba is pontless cuz Gerba scores from guys who lay the ball off at his feet.

Mikey
09-20-2009, 04:38 PM
4-5-1?

It looked more like we were playing 0-9-1

I have never seen a more definitive display of what not to do.
TFC players standing 4 feet apart in clump in the centre of the field trying to pass the ball to each other, and standing still in the exact same spot to recieve it back again, until someone finally panics and punts it blindly up the field...

Shit, I hope I havent given Cummins 90 min game plan away!!

Parkdale
09-20-2009, 04:47 PM
It looked more like we were playing 0-9-1


more like 911, but the paramedics never showed up (it was LA after all)

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-20-2009, 05:08 PM
I don't know what game you were watching but Guevera played a decent game and linked up with JDG well. These 2 actually hold the ball and move it intelligently... the odd pass may be poor but with the amount of time that they have the ball, it pales in comparison to others ( like Barret ) who give the ball away easily.
"Frei was great ??? ... average maybe. Dero saved a sure goal in bactracking to defence on a few occasions...


they hold the ball well? the object of the game is getting that ball to the net or in it..we hardly tested the LA Keeper..DeRo did help in one stopping
La Attack.no question...the odd pass maybe poor..our passing game has not been around for most of the season..except in midfield then there is no attack from the defending net to the 18 yard box we have NO clue to scoring.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-20-2009, 05:09 PM
Because he isnt capable.


and you have :(never mistyped FFS!!

Big Bruva
09-20-2009, 05:28 PM
Why does everyone on this board feel the need to take digs on barret, yea he missed some easy chances 3 months ago, but it isnt like our other strikers are lighting it up out there.........also i think since he moved to the left he has been better...yea he probably does make too much for what he does but his salary was given when he was in form not now, yes maybe he shouldnt start but we dont exactly have the greatest depth...he also played pretty well yesterday......but I honestly think he could score a goal a game for the last 4 seasons bring us to the playoffs and people would still hate so i guess it is what it is


The funny thing is a lot of people just jump on the bandwagon, they love then hate then love then hate again and quite a few go with what the majority are saying.

Seen the same wih Robbo recently.

We all know Chad is not an out and out finisher and thats why he has been moved to the mid role nowadays but there is no knocking his hustle and especially in away games you really need that. I compare Chad to Kuyt in his first season with Pool, he came to the club as a big goal scorer from Feyenoord i thought his finishing and technique needed a lot of work but stayed in the team week in week out and Rafa moved him to the right wing coz of his workrate and hustle.

CretanBull
09-20-2009, 06:06 PM
^ I don't blame Barrett for not being a finisher, but that's what Mo identified him as and what he brought him in for. If Barrett could cross like Kuyt he'd be a fan favourite in a heart beat.

IMO Mo has handcuffed Cummins with the players (position wise) that he's brought in, but its Cummins who will pay the price at the end of the season.

LucaGol
09-20-2009, 06:13 PM
It has nothing to do with formations, players, subs whatever ... the players are not moving off the ball well for the last bloody time.

If you don't create space off the ball and move to give the ball carrier options ... your attacks become static and predictable.

Any formation can work given the right set of instruction. Unfortunately in our case, well ... ya

CretanBull
09-20-2009, 06:30 PM
It has nothing to do with formations, players, subs whatever ... the players are not moving off the ball well for the last bloody time.

If you don't create space off the ball and move to give the ball carrier options ... your attacks become static and predictable.

Any formation can work given the right set of instruction. Unfortunately in our case, well ... ya

I think thats the result of so many players playing out of position....we have 6 CMs and no natural wingers, we have midfielders playing as fullbacks and strikers playing as wingers (or wide players). Cummins is doing the best with what he's got, but this team wasn't put together very well.

Beach_Red
09-20-2009, 06:41 PM
^ I don't blame Barrett for not being a finisher, but that's what Mo identified him as and what he brought him in for. If Barrett could cross like Kuyt he'd be a fan favourite in a heart beat.

IMO Mo has handcuffed Cummins with the players (position wise) that he's brought in, but its Cummins who will pay the price at the end of the season.


Everybody's handcuffed, this is MLS. You take what you can get. The successful teams make it work.

Getting Barrett wasn't anybody's choice. Signing him to a longer-term contract might have been a mistake, but he fiills an American roster spot.

It seems like every game we see second half adjustments from the other team but we never make adjustments.

Sure, there could be better players, but these ones should be getting more points.

ilikemusic
09-20-2009, 06:41 PM
and you have :(never mistyped FFS!!

Youre quoting the wrong person. :dupe:

Chevy
09-20-2009, 08:06 PM
Cummins has a system?

CretanBull
09-20-2009, 08:17 PM
Everybody's handcuffed, this is MLS. You take what you can get.

That's true to an extent, but is there another team in the MLS that doesn't have a single winger? That has such a thin collection defenders? Guys who were brought in as strikers who can't score? Maybe a different coach could help, but a new coach isn't going to turn Vitti into Henry.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-20-2009, 08:25 PM
Youre quoting the wrong person. :dupe:
no but the reply was for you...come on, have YOU never made a typing
mistake, without someone adding personal insults about it!!

ilikemusic
09-20-2009, 08:29 PM
:poke:


Why wont CC change his system?


Because he isnt capable.

Beach_Red
09-20-2009, 08:41 PM
That's true to an extent, but is there another team in the MLS that doesn't have a single winger? That has such a thin collection defenders? Guys who were brought in as strikers who can't score? Maybe a different coach could help, but a new coach isn't going to turn Vitti into Henry.

We'd have to ask Yohan or Stryker or one of the other MLS roster guys, but it's unlikely any team in the league has its ideal roster.

And Vitti doesn't have to be Henry, he just has to be MLS quality. He seems tohave the abilty, and he seems to be doing what the coaches ask him to do. Other teams seem to be able to shut that down pretty easily.

What wins games in MLS is filling holes - because every team has them. How many times in the game yesterday did we hear about LA's roster of rookies and guys in their mid-30's? Not an ideal roster. I read on this board all the time that people want Steve Nicol because he's able to get so much out of such a thin roster in NE. A lot of people here think that even the roster we have with Nicol coaching would be doing much better. Is Seattle's team that much better than TFC, or does Sigi Schmidt know how to get points in MLS?

I only hope that the same thing is being done with getting a coach as was done to get a DP - the team targeted someone they wanted who was going to be out of contract and then were stubborn enough to get him. Maybe next year's coach is currently under contract somewhere else right now.

Because the team sure acts like its in a holding pattern waiting till next year.

CretanBull
09-20-2009, 09:17 PM
I'm not asking for or expecting "an ideal roster" and I'm not complaining about the talent level of the players on our team. My point is based on the fact that last night - just like most nights - our starting XI had 5 players playing out of their natural position. Our 4-5-1 was made up of a keeper, a RB, two CBs, a left-winger, four CMs and two strikers. A new coach can't fix that problem. If I gave you a hockey team made up of all wingers would you blame the coach because his team can't win a face-off? Or would you wonder how a coach can be expected to win a face off when the GM has only given him wingers?

Ossington Mental Youth
09-20-2009, 09:47 PM
VPjr in short is true, CC cant change his system cuz we havent got all the players needed to play different systems properly. Ive defended Mo long enough and at this point in time its on him. It doesnt help that CC is NOT head coach material at this time.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-20-2009, 10:20 PM
I'm not asking for or expecting "an ideal roster" and I'm not complaining about the talent level of the players on our team. My point is based on the fact that last night - just like most nights - our starting XI had 5 players playing out of their natural position. Our 4-5-1 was made up of a keeper, a RB, two CBs, a left-winger, four CMs and two strikers. A new coach can't fix that problem. If I gave you a hockey team made up of all wingers would you blame the coach because his team can't win a face-off? Or would you wonder how a coach can be expected to win a face off when the GM has only given him wingers?


CC has taken too much heat for the way the team has performed.......CC
has told the players how he would like to see them play and they simply can't. Outside of BMO, were a terrible road team that really should not even be in contention for a playoff spot at this point in the season..add
to that the many dropped points at home..were in the situation where we have to win out to even hope for a spot and need much needed help. But there is a lot of positives leading into next season, Frei, JDG,Wynne,Attakora, which with some new blood should see us buying playoff tix this time in 2010.

flatpicker
09-20-2009, 10:45 PM
agreed with some of the folk in here who don't lay all the blame on CC.

We are one capable striker away from being a contender.
You pretty much have to add all the goals of our top 5 forwards combined, just to equal the total by DeRo.

It's really bad when our top striker is Barrett with 4 goals.

There is a core group of players that this team can be built around...
Ship out a couple of guys to make room for a decent goal scorer and we would be looking good.

That said... I'm not 100% sure that CC should continue as head coach.
I would be happy to see a more experienced guy come in and take charge.

CretanBull
09-20-2009, 11:17 PM
I hope that next season our formation is:

Frei

(new RB) - Attakora-Serioux- (new LB)

(new RW) - DeRo- JDG - (new LW)

(new Striker) - (New Striker)


Keep guys like Brennan, Cronin, White, Gala, Gomez, Sanyang, Ibrahim, Edwards as well as Gerba and Robinson if they'll come back on a reduced salary. Those guys would provide us with quality depth, versatility, and any of them could start if need (to rest a player or if we changed formations and needed an extra MF for example).

Barrett, Vitti, Guevara, Garcia, Wynne need to go...not because they are bad players but because they don't fit in here, they make a lot of money and we need to free up some cap space to buy 2 new fullbacks, 2 new wingers and 2 new strikers. We should be looking to spend in the $100-$120k range for each of the 6 new players and use the left over cap space to add more depth.

Beach_Red
09-20-2009, 11:20 PM
I'm not asking for or expecting "an ideal roster" and I'm not complaining about the talent level of the players on our team. My point is based on the fact that last night - just like most nights - our starting XI had 5 players playing out of their natural position. Our 4-5-1 was made up of a keeper, a RB, two CBs, a left-winger, four CMs and two strikers. A new coach can't fix that problem. If I gave you a hockey team made up of all wingers would you blame the coach because his team can't win a face-off? Or would you wonder how a coach can be expected to win a face off when the GM has only given him wingers?

Hockey may not be a good comparison because most forwards can shift positions. Lots of guys who played centre in junior are converted to wingers and sometimes players even change from defense to forward. I don't know, maybe that kind of thing never happens in soccer (in American football guys go from a lifetime at quarterback to wide receiver or defensive back. What position is Michael Vick going to play?).

If the reason the performances of the players seems bad is because they are out of their natural positions, that's one thing. In another thread someone says that they look out of shape, people say they play with no intensity, it looks like they've already given up on the playoffs, etc., etc..

One thing's for sure, some of these players will be gone at the end of the season and there'll be somenew ones next year. Let's hope they get to play their proper positions.

CretanBull
09-20-2009, 11:26 PM
Hockey may not be a good comparison because most forwards can shift positions. Lots of guys who played centre in junior are converted to wingers and sometimes players even change from defense to forward. I don't know, maybe that kind of thing never happens in soccer (in American football guys go from a lifetime at quarterback to wide receiver or defensive back. What position is Michael Vick going to play?)

Some guys can do it, but would you want Pavel Bure taking a face-off in the defensive zone? Or would you want your GM to find you a Rod Brind'Amour type guy for those situations?

We have talented players, but when they're not in their natural positions they struggle - typically, they don't know how to move off the ball. We've got too many players - De Ro, JDG, Guevara, Vitti - who are at their best when they've got the ball at their feet but we can't run the offense through all 4 of them at the same time. We're better off trading a couple of them for players who specialize in playing off the ball - guys who know where to run to to help out the dribblers, guys who can play out wide, who can cross a ball into the box, who can stretch the opposition D etc. that the role being asked of Barrett and Vitti at the moment but neither of them are naturals at it.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-20-2009, 11:29 PM
I do think that Gerba can produce (along with OBW) provided they are getting service which they arent, that being said i still wanna see a top striker in (along with a few solid defenders).

People i wouldnt be surprised to see leave (whether shipped out, traded or what have you) are: Guevara, Robinson, Barrett, Garcia, Vitti (debateable)

IF they stay it will be at a significantly lower pay AND they will have less of a first team role.

skraks
09-21-2009, 12:22 AM
Sangyang won`t be around next season. That`s pretty much a guarantee.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-21-2009, 12:37 AM
Sangyang won`t be around next season. That`s pretty much a guarantee.

not at all guaranteed, just cuz yahoo said there is interest means nothing, kid is 18 and still has a long long way to go plus we need the depth, id put good money on him being around for at least 2 more seasons

fetajr
09-21-2009, 12:33 PM
this is how id'd do it
3-4-1-2........essentially a 3-5-2... buth with DeRo sneaking up more as a forward with a stronger defensive mid (robbo) on that side to cover up DeRo's absence


Wynne------Serioux-------Attakora

--------JDG-----------Cronin/Robbo------

Vitti---------Guevara ----------------

--------------------------DeRo

-----Gerba------White-----

poppamidnight
09-21-2009, 12:46 PM
Why are people always insisting on the 4-man backline?

We don't have 4 solid DF,
In fact, out backline looks BETTER when it plays with 3 men! (as pathetic as that sounds)

I'd go w/ this:

__________FREI________

Wynne___Nana______JimmyB
____Sanyang__Robbo______
Amado____JDG____DeRo
_____White____Gerba_____

Subs Depth Chart:
D - 1- Serioux, 2- Gomez, 3 - Garcia, 4 - Gala
MF - 1 - Cronin, 2 - Feligna, 3 - Fuad
S - 1 - Vitt, 2 - Chad

Kaz
09-21-2009, 01:16 PM
The problem with the 4-5-1 is that you need a strong front man.

with what we have a 4-4-2 would give much more depth. you have two people working, and splitting the defense. Add DeRo, and Guevera in attacking Rolls and JDG as a DM feeding to DeRo, Guevera and Cronin even, you end up with a back to front highway for the ball.

with what he have now,

Attakora, Gomez, Serioux, Brennan
-----------------JDG-------------------
Cronin-------Guevera----------DeRo
--------Barrett----------Gerba--------

you bring in White as a 60th minute sub (he is still coming back from injury) you have Robo or Sanyang to replace JDG until he's match fit.

This is a Highway formation to move the ball in the counter quickly.. if you don't have someone that can distribute that ball after Nana stops it then it gets lost in the mid field.

the only reason for a 4 man back line is the lack of strength a 3 man defense is totally work able

This also allows JDG to strip the ball and send it back up front, something we can't do right now, and helps keep the ball out our defensive third more.

JDG can still move up when the play calls for it, but allows him to play the position he is most comfortable in.

It strengthens our weak defense, it helps our week ball movement, and helps keep the ball on the ground.

Next season we will see a healthy OBW come into his own, We need either need a Strong DM (as apparently the DP we signed is going to be played out of position) or a replacement for the 35 year old Guevera at least 1 strong striker would help, and 2 strong defenders are a must

fetajr
09-21-2009, 01:17 PM
Why are people always insisting on the 4-man backline?



I agree. TFC should be going out and trying to score goals to win...not go out and try not to lose.

C.Ronaldo
09-21-2009, 01:21 PM
we dont even have 4 defenders on the team, do we?