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Shakes McQueen
09-18-2009, 12:10 PM
The purpose of this thread is simple - what do you guys think will happen to Chris Cummins after this season?

Do you think he:

a) Get's sacked/resigns
b) Goes back to being an assistant
c) Stays on as head coach

Many of us, including myself, are just assuming that he certainly won't be back, after what has been a terribly lackluster season to this point. It's also telling that there has been no announcement, or even rumour, of the removal of his "interim" tag.

However, there also haven't been rumours of him leaving, as far as I've heard.

So what do you guys think?

- Scott

AL-MO
09-18-2009, 12:12 PM
DEPENDS.

We make the playoffs, I think he is likely back. (whether he should be or not)

We miss them, he is gonzo IMO.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-18-2009, 12:13 PM
steps away....heading back to england...just a feeling..!

TFC07
09-18-2009, 12:15 PM
Fire him regardless if we make it to the playoffs or not. We need a coach who has experience coaching in MLS/CONCACAF and knows how to deal with issues such as bad refs, anal rules of MLS etc.

Parkdale
09-18-2009, 12:15 PM
considering he was almost out the door once already (when Carver left), it wouldn't surprise me if he split in the off season.

I'm very curious to see what he can do with JDG on the field in the next few games. If we play some really good games, but still come up short of the playoffs, I could see him staying. If we play some terrible ball, then he's gone.

DangerRed
09-18-2009, 12:15 PM
I think you'll get your answer in five games or less. If we make the post-season, he stays, since it's mission accomplished. If we fail, he fails, and he probably goes.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-18-2009, 12:17 PM
I think you'll get your answer in five games or less. If we make the post-season, he stays, since it's mission accomplished. If we fail, he fails, and he probably goes.

i think he go's either way..

Shakes McQueen
09-18-2009, 12:24 PM
DEPENDS.

We make the playoffs, I think he is likely back. (whether he should be or not)

We miss them, he is gonzo IMO.

I think even if we make the playoffs, he is likely gone as head coach. If we do make it, it would likely be in spite of his tactical failings, not because of them. And surely with some of the pathetic results we've seen this season, Mo and the FO staff would understand that too.

And I'm also sure they must be aware of the negativity brewing towards the job Cummins is doing, amongst the supporters.

- Scott

flatpicker
09-18-2009, 12:25 PM
I don't necessarily have much against the guy, but I think we need a more experienced coach to run this team.

I wonder if it would be tough for him to go back to an assistant position on TFC.

I think he may leave after this season... playoffs won't be enough to keep him here.
Although... winning the Cup might be a different story.

Flipityflu
09-18-2009, 12:32 PM
as the poll is what i think will happen, i put that he will stay.

howver, i think he should go.

denime
09-18-2009, 12:34 PM
Take over academy programs as Technical director !

AL-MO
09-18-2009, 12:34 PM
as the poll is what i think will happen, i put that he will stay.

howver, i think he should go.

That is what I thought this thread was about, not what YOU think should happen....

arbogast
09-18-2009, 12:42 PM
steps away....heading back to england...just a feeling..!

Agreed.

He also mentioned on the Fan 590 last week, that his family has already moved back to England. Can't see a low paying coaching job ib MLS is worth the distance.

DaBandit
09-18-2009, 12:49 PM
I think even if we make the playoffs, he is likely gone as head coach. If we do make it, it would likely be in spite of his tactical failings, not because of them. And surely with some of the pathetic results we've seen this season, Mo and the FO staff would understand that too.

And I'm also sure they must be aware of the negativity brewing towards the job Cummins is doing, amongst the supporters.

- Scott

I agree with this assessment. Need someone with more experience IMHO.

Hitcho
09-18-2009, 01:17 PM
Agreed.

He also mentioned on the Fan 590 last week, that his family has already moved back to England. Can't see a low paying coaching job ib MLS is worth the distance.

Oh well then he's gone for sure. No way is he going to stay here and have his family in England. It's not like he has a job where he can get back and see them every couple of weeks. I just cannot see him staying if this news is A) correct and B) permanent (ie they are not just gone for the off season or something).

There's another factor at play here though: Mo. CC was never on Mo's hiot list of head coaches, he just ended up there by default when Carver walked out mid-season. He was very clearly labelled as interim and there's been no suggestion of that changing. Mo has people in mind, yuo can bet on that, and if he can get one of them in the off season then he's golden because CC won't even need a pay off as head coach.

If Mo gets a good shot at a preferred coach, CC will either be binned or asked to step back to underling coach, which would be awkward and hard, and with his family gone, can't see that happeing.

Flipityflu
09-18-2009, 01:32 PM
That is what I thought this thread was about, not what YOU think should happen....


exactly, which is why i voted the way i did, which is that he will stay. i just wanted to mention that i don't think its the right descision.

Oldtimer
09-18-2009, 01:43 PM
Shakes, it's waayyyy to early to post a poll on this topic. How about waiting to see if we make the playoffs?

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-18-2009, 01:52 PM
He should stay on whether we make the playoff or not? he deserves at least one full training camp and one full season as manager. he can install his tatics during spring
training training giving the players a chance to adjust to his style of managing. We
CAN"T have a forth manager in 4th years thats not accepotable..Lets give CC another year then deicde!!

Ageroo
09-18-2009, 02:06 PM
He should stay on whether we make the playoff or not? he deserves at least one full training camp and one full season as manager. he can install his tatics during spring
training training giving the players a chance to adjust to his style of managing. We
CAN"T have a forth manager in 4th years thats not accepotable..Lets give CC another year then deicde!!

Regardless of when he got thrown into the coaching role....Really? Install his tactics in the spring.....everyday he should be working on it.

Kaz
09-18-2009, 02:10 PM
I think he is a great development coach, And with a good head coach he could do well. I think he'll go back to an assistant, but I think that will be more about what the new Head Coach wants when we find him.. which I hope is soon. the full off season for a new coach to meet with staff players and formulate a plan, and a full preseason is important.

I have nothing against Chris Cummins this wasn't exactly the job he was hired for.

Kaz
09-18-2009, 02:13 PM
He should stay on whether we make the playoff or not? he deserves at least one full training camp and one full season as manager. he can install his tatics during spring
training training giving the players a chance to adjust to his style of managing. We
CAN"T have a forth manager in 4th years thats not accepotable..Lets give CC another year then deicde!!


Dude... Mo got "promoted" Carver quit, Cummins is a interm coach, it's logical to bring a new coach in. There is nothing unacceptable about it. That is what interm means.. you know temporary, not long term.

Shakes McQueen
09-18-2009, 02:36 PM
Shakes, it's waayyyy to early to post a poll on this topic. How about waiting to see if we make the playoffs?

Short of winning the MLS Cup, I honestly don't think Cummins' future depends on whether we barely miss the playoffs, or whether we barely hobble into the playoffs.

If the team makes the playoffs, it won't be due to excellent coaching and tactical acumen - otherwise we would have been employing smarter tactics and substitutions for a while now, and wouldn't be in this position.

Same with the NCC - we didn't lose the NCC, because a couple of our players dragged us across the finish line, not because Cummins introduced superb tactics suddenly in the last game, after piss-poor outings like the one in Vancouver.

- Scott

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Dude... Mo got "promoted" Carver quit, Cummins is a interm coach, it's logical to bring a new coach in. There is nothing unacceptable about it. That is what interm means.. you know temporary, not long term.

But it could be..interm doesnt mean you cant get the job either..and with what CC has to work with talent wise on the team he has done a remarkable job to keep us in the playoff hunt this long.

Belfast_Boy
09-18-2009, 03:19 PM
DEPENDS.

We make the playoffs, I think he is likely back. (whether he should be or not)

We miss them, he is gonzo IMO.

yup! i agree.

Detroit_TFC
09-18-2009, 03:24 PM
Agreed.

He also mentioned on the Fan 590 last week, that his family has already moved back to England. Can't see a low paying coaching job ib MLS is worth the distance.

In light of that, he's not planning on staying.

onemanbarmyarmy
09-18-2009, 03:37 PM
It's all these damn internet polls what's gots him-a-runnin'.

Shway
09-18-2009, 04:02 PM
you cant fire an INTERIM COACH, its unlikely, and unethical.
the most that will happen is that he will get offered his spot back - ASSISTANT COACH

FluSH
09-18-2009, 04:20 PM
DEPENDS.

We make the playoffs, I think he is likely back. (whether he should be or not)

We miss them, he is gonzo IMO.


I agree here... however if we make the playoffs and it's highly attributed to JDG... then MO will be the Saviour and Cummins will still be sacked...

on the other hand...

If we make the playoffs and it looks like a team effort + Cummins makes excellent subs like he did with OBW... then I see Cummins back with the team....

Unfortunately, JDG can diminish any work that Cummins puts forth to get the team to the playoffs....

FluSH
09-18-2009, 04:20 PM
you cant fire an INTERIM COACH, its unlikely, and unethical.
the most that will happen is that he will get offered his spot back - ASSISTANT COACH


Doesn't the Head Coach pick his assitant coach and team?

ecospice
09-18-2009, 04:35 PM
Fire him regardless if we make it to the playoffs or not. We need a coach who has experience coaching in MLS/CONCACAF and knows how to deal with issues such as bad refs, anal rules of MLS etc.

Totally agree.

The other issue is that he cannot come back as an assistant. It would be too weird for the new manager, the players and Cummins to have the former interim head coach as an assistant. Leaves open potential for conflict...say some player has a beef with the new manager, they would gripe to Chris because he is the former interim head coach, etc...

Best for all to move on.

nimamalek
09-18-2009, 05:56 PM
He's gone and we're going to hire Dale Mitchell

Yohan
09-18-2009, 06:00 PM
He's gone and we're going to hire Dale Mitchell
lol. i'd rather have my balls shredded into bits

kitchener-TFC
09-18-2009, 06:29 PM
I'm worried that if Cummins' leaves, or gets sacked, Paul Winsper will leave the club as well.

arbogast
09-18-2009, 09:47 PM
Oh well then he's gone for sure. No way is he going to stay here and have his family in England. It's not like he has a job where he can get back and see them every couple of weeks. I just cannot see him staying if this news is A) correct and B) permanent (ie they are not just gone for the off season or something).

There's another factor at play here though: Mo. CC was never on Mo's hiot list of head coaches, he just ended up there by default when Carver walked out mid-season. He was very clearly labelled as interim and there's been no suggestion of that changing. Mo has people in mind, yuo can bet on that, and if he can get one of them in the off season then he's golden because CC won't even need a pay off as head coach.

If Mo gets a good shot at a preferred coach, CC will either be binned or asked to step back to underling coach, which would be awkward and hard, and with his family gone, can't see that happeing.

Good Call. Mo's crafty like that.

TFC07
09-18-2009, 09:57 PM
I'm worried that if Cummins' leaves, or gets sacked, Paul Winsper will leave the club as well.

Why would Winsper leave? What's logic behind that?

Batman
09-19-2009, 07:50 AM
Ya, I don't see why Winsper would have to go if Cummins went.

But if the earlier comment that said Cummins family has headed back to England is true, I think that means he knows he wont be the head coach next year.

The season is too darned long to be away from a young family.

I like Chris Cummins, and I wish him well. I'm pretty sure he ends up back in the UK though.

arbogast
09-19-2009, 10:43 AM
Ya, I don't see why Winsper would have to go if Cummins went.

But if the earlier comment that said Cummins family has headed back to England is true, I think that means he knows he wont be the head coach next year.

The season is too darned long to be away from a young family.

I like Chris Cummins, and I wish him well. I'm pretty sure he ends up back in the UK though.

yeah he mentioned it while on the Fan 590's Soccer Show as an in-studio guest, I thik it was the episode before the Colorado game. I was an odd comment to make really, considering it would lead to speculation. He also said he'd really like to work with Carver again in the future and that he only came here because of him.

Sonny Cheeba
09-19-2009, 10:51 AM
he walks into a phonebooth, spins around for a while, then comes out looking like steve nicol.

Batman
09-19-2009, 11:50 AM
he walks into a phonebooth, spins around for a while, then comes out looking like steve nicol.

My expectation too. I feel certain Mo will be looking for an MLS experienced guy like Nicol. Certainly MLSE also have the bucks to deal with NE to buy out his contract. I just wonder if Nicol would be happy with playing 2nd fiddle to Mo, though.

Sonny Cheeba
09-19-2009, 11:57 AM
i think his experience will create more leniency from mo.. plus they're both scottish, so they can pack on the pies and bridies together.

Beach_Red
09-19-2009, 12:25 PM
My expectation too. I feel certain Mo will be looking for an MLS experienced guy like Nicol. Certainly MLSE also have the bucks to deal with NE to buy out his contract. I just wonder if Nicol would be happy with playing 2nd fiddle to Mo, though.


Ideally, the coach-GM relationship isn;t one of 1st and 2nd fiddle - at least in other sports.

And yeah, MLSE have the money if they want to bring a name coach. Be great to see.

Sullivan
09-19-2009, 02:51 PM
Its a puzzle, I'll weigh in with a bit of "my" insight on separating some of the pieces before it gets put together.

As usual, the regulars should feel free to differ ...

Yes I was one of the supporters who did think that Carver was a good hire, however,... I got past that pretty quick; but I thought CC was a great hire by Carver for development purposes, the transistion to Sr team play and TFCA. I've never felt that he's a No#1 team HC / gaffer.
Very nice guy, great to talk football with; passionate, knowledgable but he still has much to learn and prove.
(TIC) Actually, to be honest, I just don't like CC's choice's in tattoos. (/TIC)

Anyway, Cummins contract with TFC is UP, aka fulfilled, sometime between November 15 and December 31, 2009.

But nothing, and I mean nothing will keep CC at TFC any longer than his current contract reads. Not an MLS championship, not even making a deep run in the playoffs, nothing. Both sides will mutually agree and announce that TFC and CC will part ways, pursue new directions and ongoing development.

My take is that CC has had enough of the Mo Show. So at season's end, within days he's packed and back to England.

On the matter of Paul Winsper - he'll have a choice/options, but in Mo's Show, Winsper is replaceable.

Mo isn't looking to Steve Nicol; yet!

Nicol has 2 years left on his Rev's contract and the price of buying him out is not on with Mo. More importantly, SN has his own way of doing things, and has done so in the MLS longer than Mo. To speculate and imagine SN with the same resources that Mo has been provided with and I bet were talking far different outcomes and directions. I digress ..., but since it appears that Nicol will lose long time assistant Paul Mariner this offseason to another MLS club; the Revs will compensate SN with additional funds and resources to rebuild his program and make no mistake that the Revs are very much SN's program.

However the biggest obstacle with Steve Nicol is his preferred choice when the time comes to leave New England. The "perfect offer" is back to the UK, not another MLS situation. Nicol is still very much tied and interested in what goes on in the EPL and SPL.

SN also still very active as a player. SN plays on an "O-V" team that won the American national over 40 championship this year so since he's still relatively fit, he might even consider a number 2 spot with an establish top tier EPL or SPL club and bide his time for a bite at a gaffer's role.

Mind you, ML$E has the kind of resources that just might attract SN; Mo ain't so attractive so addition by subtraction at the senor management level in 2 years might work just work in bringing SN to TFC, sans Mo.

Meanwhile, I think Mo is looking west, to a fart chaser who is way west and is an established MLS vet. And there will be no chance of sighting Mo and his potential fart catcher today or tonight.

sorry jg, but had to include that, priceless....

olegunnar
09-19-2009, 05:09 PM
Meanwhile, I think Mo is looking west, to a fart chaser who is way west and is an established MLS vet. And there will be no chance of sighting Mo and his potential fart catcher today or tonight.



Preki

What do I win??

Batman
09-19-2009, 09:25 PM
Ideally, the coach-GM relationship isn;t one of 1st and 2nd fiddle - at least in other sports.

And yeah, MLSE have the money if they want to bring a name coach. Be great to see.


I cant say I agree with that. In most sports the gm hires and fires the coach. Not splitting hairs but that sure makes the coach seem like 2nd fiddle to me.

Beach_Red
09-19-2009, 10:40 PM
I cant say I agree with that. In most sports the gm hires and fires the coach. Not splitting hairs but that sure makes the coach seem like 2nd fiddle to me.


I'm thinking of the times when it works properly, when there's no interference and it's two professionals each doing their own jobs.

Of course, coaches have input into what kind of players they want and GM's have input into game plans, but when it's working the relationship doesn't have to be boss-employee, but more like a partnership (even though, yes, the GM does the hiring).

Carver was very upfront that he had a huge amount of input on players signed, he handled all the trials and made the line-up decisions. It seems like there's potential to get an experienced coach into a system like that who won't have to be a second fiddle. Anyway, here's hoping.

forza_tfc
09-19-2009, 11:58 PM
I'm worried that if Cummins' leaves, or gets sacked, Paul Winsper will leave the club as well.

I never understood the Paul Winsper hard on. I actually think he tires our players out. Most teams seem perfectly fit without Winsper.

Oldtimer
09-20-2009, 06:55 AM
After the LA game it's clear: he's on a plane back to Engerland.

koryo
09-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Thinking long-term, if missing the playoffs means an upgrade in the manager's seat then I won't be too upset if we miss the playoffs (which, barring a miracle, is the case now anyway).

Cummins is a solid coach (in the assistant sense), but that doesn't necessarily make him a good manager.

I think he's out of his depth.

Shakes McQueen
09-20-2009, 01:52 PM
Yet another game passes where we look decent going forward in the first half (aside from defense, but that's another story), then the half-time whistle blows, our opponents make some actual tactical adjustments (whereas we apparently do not), and they come out in the second half and out-play us for the last 45 minutes.

I don't buy this argument that if Cummins had the "right players" - instead of people occasionally having to play outside their preferred position - that we would be a much better team. We've seen this team play well before, only to look far shakier when our opposition makes adjustments.

Yet another game of leaving Gerba on an island, alone. Yet another game of head-scratching substitutions (Fellinga for Barrett?!). And yet another game of starting inept scrubs like Garcia, when we have better options sitting on the bench.

This guy needs to go.

- Scott

Super
09-20-2009, 04:05 PM
Things aren't working with Cummins, and I doubt they'll work any better should he be given another season to try his hand at the role of head coach. However, I do like the guy, and I think he's got talents, but I just don't want to put the whole team on the line hoping that he'll be ready to lead going into the next year. I'd rather send him out the door with a thanks, but no thanks, and try our hand at a skilled, routined and very experienced coach who understands the MLS inside and out. Hopefully we'll see a potential coach become available once this season is over - and then we need to jump at the chance and grab the guy.

Sullivan
09-20-2009, 05:18 PM
Another point of clarity from my point of view.

I've been following MLS since day 1, so I've witness some lousy teams and TFC's current roster is a playoff contending team!

The parts, pieces, players are pretty much on the roster. I'm not suggesting championship depth, but I am suggesting that TFC shouldn't be out of any playoff like picture - and TFC should have had a solid lock on the 6th-8th positions by this point in time of the season.

My take is Mo, Carver & Cummins have all failed.
TFC is too predictable; lacks depth; has no attacking shape; is not a threat on attacking third re-starts; lacks a technical character or identity; is easily broken down; and has an almost invisible transitional component.

Blame Barrett, Cunningham, Wynne, the Smiths, Ricketts, etc., for being poor technical players but it was never their fault that they were deployed to the clubs' detriment.

There's more than 1 way to simplify the game!

ArmenJBX
09-20-2009, 05:25 PM
I agree. We don't have a style of play. We have great players, no doubt, but we need a coach who get's the best out of the boys and knows how to handle the team by a game by game basis.

Cummins is a joker, we need a hardass, a WINNER.

Sullivan
09-20-2009, 05:38 PM
I agree. We don't have a style of play. We have great players, no doubt, but we need a coach who get's the best out of the boys and knows how to handle the team by a game by game basis.

A competent hardass isn't gonna chase Mo's farts...

So as long as Mo is around. TFC has a problem.

And Mo's options don't include a future in any part of the UK so he's gonna dig in deep to protect the TFC gig any way he can.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-20-2009, 05:52 PM
My expectation too. I feel certain Mo will be looking for an MLS experienced guy like Nicol. Certainly MLSE also have the bucks to deal with NE to buy out his contract. I just wonder if Nicol would be happy with playing 2nd fiddle to Mo, though.


the problem with Nicol is he cant win the big one!! if you want a guy just to settle for making the playoffs then yes hire Nicol. Bruce Arena would have been a better fit, but doubt LA would let him go or he would want to,
hes done a good job there this year.. So if CC goes then what? Dichio?
does TFC want another inexperienced manager? Mo back as manager?
might be a good option..but whoever he hired must deal with the MLS rules of signing players,drafts, and that could be difficult.

Stryker
09-20-2009, 06:50 PM
I hope he does want to go back to England cause it wouldn't completely shock me if they did something so foolish as to give him another year. Regardless of how bad the team does.

Did anyone else find it really bothersome that Cummins was laughing and smiling during the game when we were behind and our playoff hopes dying with every minute that ticked off the clock?
Almost as if he doesn't care at this point.

Anyway I'd like to see Paul Mariner get the job. I think he's ready to step up and blume into great lead coach. Would be cool to see Danny assist or co-assist too.

ArmenJBX
09-20-2009, 07:33 PM
We need a Jose Mourinho type coach.

Beach_Red
09-20-2009, 07:36 PM
Another point of clarity from my point of view.

I've been following MLS since day 1, so I've witness some lousy teams and TFC's current roster is a playoff contending team!

The parts, pieces, players are pretty much on the roster. I'm not suggesting championship depth, but I am suggesting that TFC shouldn't be out of any playoff like picture - and TFC should have had a solid lock on the 6th-8th positions by this point in time of the season.

My take is Mo, Carver & Cummins have all failed.
TFC is too predictable; lacks depth; has no attacking shape; is not a threat on attacking third re-starts; lacks a technical character or identity; is easily broken down; and has an almost invisible transitional component.

Blame Barrett, Cunningham, Wynne, the Smiths, Ricketts, etc., for being poor technical players but it was never their fault that they were deployed to the clubs' detriment.

There's more than 1 way to simplify the game!

How can it be both?

When Carver was here he was very upfront about his input in player selection - so if ther roster is there, then the management hasn't failed. Of course, not replacing Carver with an experienced coach would be the biggest failure.

Now this is in response to your other post about chasing farts (though I'm not really sure what that expression means, I think I get it from the context). As you say, you've been following MLS for a long time and I've only been following soccer for, oh let's see, two and a half years, but I find it hard to believe the personality of the manager plays as big a part as you say. Now, maybe that's because I grew up in Montreal and saw Sam Pollack - universally hated - win a lot of championships. Then I saw Scotty Bowman - not a guy anyone would call cuddly - win a lot more. I'd never heard of Mo before he signed on in Toronto, but his resume looks pretty good, he won a championship in MLS as a player (wasn't he the captain? There's some leadership in that) and played pretty well in Europe. What's the problem? Sports can be a tough business and usually you need a pretty thick skin to be successful. Is soccer different?

Ossington Mental Youth
09-20-2009, 09:46 PM
I know what i hope and what will happen are two different things.
Id like to see him back as an assistant as he is an asset and does contribute as well as has a lot to learn before he is a headcoach, i do think he will get tossed tho which is unfortunate. I hope Jahninho is correct

Lucky Strike
09-21-2009, 07:40 AM
All I want is a smart coach, and thoughts of a championship to steer him by.

felipe
09-21-2009, 07:58 AM
Where is the option that Mo is fired and CC becomes manager and coach next season? I'm already saving for his bronze statue we're gonna put up outside the front gates...

arbogast
09-21-2009, 09:12 AM
Where is the option that Mo is fired and CC becomes manager and coach next season? I'm already saving for his bronze statue we're gonna put up outside the front gates...

why would they fire Mo after it's been reported by numerous sources in the media that he's signed a contract extension?

jloome
09-21-2009, 11:29 AM
I think he'll leave regardless. I think, as with Carver, that what they can't publicly say is it's impossible to work with the team Mo's given them, but he's probably insisting they do. He's the one who famously declared this team good enough to make the playoffs. But I don't think the best coach on Earth could get this team to compete in MLS>

In every position at which we suffer , leading MLS teams have competent proven performers. Nobody who is performing well in this league has the kind of makeshift, out-of-position, just-brough-in-to-try-something-new roster we have.

In fact, if you look at our roster makeup, it's clear we emualte teams like the Shite Bulls, FC Dallas and Kansas City, only with marginally more talent.

Beach_Red
09-21-2009, 11:43 AM
^ Then why wait till the end of the season? If he really feels that way he should quit now. Maybe he shouldn't have taken even the interim position if that's how he feels - certainly he would have known then.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-21-2009, 12:19 PM
I think he'll leave regardless. I think, as with Carver, that what they can't publicly say is it's impossible to work with the team Mo's given them, but he's probably insisting they do. He's the one who famously declared this team good enough to make the playoffs. But I don't think the best coach on Earth could get this team to compete in MLS>

In every position at which we suffer , leading MLS teams have competent proven performers. Nobody who is performing well in this league has the kind of makeshift, out-of-position, just-brough-in-to-try-something-new roster we have.

In fact, if you look at our roster makeup, it's clear we emualte teams like the Shite Bulls, FC Dallas and Kansas City, only with marginally more talent.


Mo's brought in the players the fans were demanding, DeRo, Serioux, JDG,
and had to make deals he didnt really want to and bring in Barrett. If we are not a better team with the players Mo brought in then its time to focus the blame on the players instead of Mo and CC..the team has under
performed this year, at the beginning i sad a .500 season would be acceptable, and even that looks remote..Mo should have a closed door session with the players stating...No one is 100% sure in coming back
and those that want too have got to produce and show something over
the last 4 games. NO exceptions!!

Cashcleaner
09-21-2009, 12:50 PM
As it's been pointed out, Cummins isn't our Head Coach, he's our Interim Head Coach. I don't see him leaving the club altogether if a replacement were to show up during the off-season.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-21-2009, 02:47 PM
As it's been pointed out, Cummins isn't our Head Coach, he's our Interim Head Coach. I don't see him leaving the club altogether if a replacement were to show up during the off-season.


But i think he should be considered for the managers job..he won the Canadian Championship, has for the most part keep a still young expansion franchise in the playoff hunt this late in September...And if is not considered then he mostly likely will return to england. i hope he stays for the stability of the franchise for next season

K1nG
09-21-2009, 08:20 PM
Doesn't the Head Coach pick his assitant coach and team?
I beleive he does.

What I can't beleive is that 17% of the voters think he'll be back next year. A temporary / interim coach who coaches the club for roughtly 80% of a season. Not very temporary if you ask me.. should have had a replacement a long time ago.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-21-2009, 08:28 PM
I beleive he does.

What I can't beleive is that 17% of the voters think he'll be back next year. A temporary / interim coach who coaches the club for roughtly 80% of a season. Not very temporary if you ask me.. should have had a replacement a long time ago.

Maybe the 17% believe he has done a good job with what he has had to work with...a miracle worker he is not..and needs more then 80 % of one
season to build the team even better. TFC is not as strong as people make them out to be and their performances back that up..2010 should
be the focus on a push for the playoffs ..expecting that this season was
just going to be a major let down which many fans are now expecting..

K1nG
09-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Maybe the 17% believe he has done a good job with what he has had to work with...a miracle worker he is not..and needs more then 80 % of one
season to build the team even better. TFC is not as strong as people make them out to be and their performances back that up..2010 should
be the focus on a push for the playoffs ..expecting that this season was
just going to be a major let down which many fans are now expecting..

I disagree with your opinion that Toronto FC doesn't have alot to work with. I will concede that Barrett and Vitti have essentially wasted valuble cap space and no more, however; he has a very solid midfield. A midfield that does not seem able to play a possesion oriented game. The majority of the games this season Toronto has ran around like chickens with their heads cut off. I've seen teams like Stoke in the EPL playing the top 4 and although outclassed - play a system with strategy and coordination resulting in very close games. Toronto has been worked by some of the leagues worst.

Cashcleaner
09-21-2009, 10:54 PM
Doesn't the Head Coach pick his assitant coach and team?

Yes, but for all we know, the incoming replacement coach just might pick Cummins as his right-hand man.

Damien
09-21-2009, 11:03 PM
Fire Cummins!

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-21-2009, 11:05 PM
How may TFC want Cummins fired are Leaf fans...yet when ron Wilson didnt get the Leafs into the playoffs there was not too many calling for his head...and hes an experienced coach.!!! double standard by some??

Shway
09-22-2009, 01:12 PM
How may TFC want Cummins fired are Leaf fans...yet when ron Wilson didnt get the Leafs into the playoffs there was not too many calling for his head...and hes an experienced coach.!!! double standard by some??

mighty, mighty, mighty
stop while your ahead man, im not into the scrutiny bashing,
but your deserving it now.

1) you dont know who leafs, and whos not
2) your comparing hockey experience to soccer experience
3) your comparing a Ron Wilson to Chris Cummins

:facepalm:

mclaren
09-22-2009, 09:09 PM
You can't really say he'd return as an assistant - that should be the choice of the new manager, not Mo Johnston (if God bid, he is still here then).

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-22-2009, 10:20 PM
mighty, mighty, mighty
stop while your ahead man, im not into the scrutiny bashing,
but your deserving it now.

1) you dont know who leafs, and whos not
2) your comparing hockey experience to soccer experience
3) your comparing a Ron Wilson to Chris Cummins

:facepalm:


the point being...Wilson was not sacked after having a poor season with the Leafs..so why should Cummins not be given the chance as well to return? An experienced coach is an experienced coach..CC has proved
he can do the job provided he has the talent..and lest be honest, we (TFC) are terrible in the defending, inside the opponets goal area we are worse...we can play a good midfield game..As far as i can remember there
has been no player complaints against Cummins so he might be well liked.
Lets give the man one more season...he could turn the team around!!

Shway
09-22-2009, 11:41 PM
Ron Wilson has experience in hockey, hockey is the same throughout the world. And to be more specific, he has experience in Canadian Hockey.

Chris Cummins experience isnt really considered an experience of coaching, but more of seeing. If you take in the fact that Cummins was not part of the first team at Watford, but of the Academy. Lets say he was the manager at Watford, and has the most experience, does that say that he has experience in the MLS?

I don't think Cummins should be sacked, not at all. I just think he should be put back to his original position. He cannot turn this team around, talent is provided, he just decides to play them out of position, or decides not to play them because they had an off game. So his tactics have shown, how he is capable of making a good crop of players, look bad. Thats being honest, thats why I agree

Your obviously not going to here player complaints, because one this is the MLS, i thought Jesus was coming when Dero spoke out about the grass. Two, even if there was complaining, which there can possibly be, you wouldn't here it publicly.

All in all Cummins should return to Assistan Coach, or in the Future he could be the Head Coach............................................. ..........of the reserve squad.

Kaz
09-23-2009, 09:12 AM
I don't watch hockey, outside of the olympic's, so really I only know they international game (which is different from the NHL (ice size, game style) but I know enough to know comparing a hockey coach in the NHL to Football Coach in the MLS is like comparing a banana and a orange by calling both apples.

Cummins is replacing Carver who quit early in the season. Cummins has limited experience with senior rosters, the game in MLS and his own abilities. The FO obvious wasn't expecting Carver to quit when he did. So now Cummins has been left coaching.

The talent was and is there to make the playoff. An experienced coach could and would have done so. As it is, so long as we don't totally fubar the rest of the season is going to be an improvement over last season in a very very tight play off race.

Cummins will be replaced as he always was going to be. the FO I think is waiting to bring someone in during the off season to decide who is staying and which staff they will replace, and so they have a full off and preseason to get to know the team.

Knowing Mo they are looking at someone without knowledge of the english language and limited knowledge of MLS

My guess Witthaya Hloagune will be Toronto FCs new head coach or maybe Hiroshi Hayano