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View Full Version : Expansion draft, who should we protect?



Oldtimer
09-18-2009, 07:34 AM
In November, Philly will be getting the chance to poach players in the expansion draft. Who should we protect?

Here was 2008's rules, I expect 2009 to be similar:


2008 MLS Expansion Draft Rules

Senior Roster
• Teams may protect 11 players between their Senior and their Developmental Roster.
• If the Player's contract expires at the end of 2008, he will still be considered part of the team's Senior Roster.
• If a team protects a player, it is not obligated to exercise the player's option. The team may renegotiate a new budget number for the player as in previous years.
• If a player retires, he will not be a part of the Senior Roster, but his team will lose its right of first refusal to him should he ultimately decide to play.
Developmental Roster
• Players on a team's Developmental Roster, other than Generation adidas players who have not been graduated at the end of the 2008 season, will be part of the expansion draft.
• Generation adidas players who have not been graduated at the end of the 2008 season are automatically protected (teams do not have to protect them).
• If Seattle Sounders FC select a Developmental Player they must offer him a Senior Roster position and he must be on Seattle's Senior Roster as of Roster Compliance Date.
International Players
• Teams are restricted in the number of international player(s) that they may make available per the table set forth below.
• For purposes of this expansion process, for U.S.-based teams, any non-domestic U.S. player would count as an International and for Toronto FC, any non-domestic U.S. player or non-domestic Canadian player would count as an International.
Designated Players
• Designated Players do not have to be protected unless the player has a no trade clause in which case he must be protected.
Maximum Player Loss
• Once a player has been claimed from a team's non-protected roster, that team is eliminated from the expansion draft and may not lose any further players.
Right to Renegotiate
• Seattle will have the right to renegotiate a drafted player's salary (either up or down) without having to place such player on waivers or giving his previous Team a right of first refusal.
Priority
• On the first day of the Discovery/Allocation Period, Seattle will have priority over players who played professionally in the USL First or Second Division in 2008, subject to another MLS team's right of first refusal.
Rounds
• The expansion draft will be 10 rounds.
INTERNATIONAL PLAYER PROTECTION REQUIREMENT TABLE:

Teams may make available a number of international players equal to their total number of international players minus 3, provided that if a team has 3 or less international players it may make available not more than 1.

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20081024&content_id=198758&vkey=pr_mls&fext=.jsp

London
09-18-2009, 07:36 AM
does JDG have a no trade clause, if so we have to protect him

Nuvinho
09-18-2009, 08:02 AM
Who should we leave unprotected?

Garcia
Robbo
Barrett

jabbronies
09-18-2009, 08:05 AM
Vitti - not worth the $$$
Guevera - too old to build around

Hitcho
09-18-2009, 08:10 AM
does JDG have a no trade clause, if so we have to protect him

My guess is he won't, because Mo is a canny fella and will have had an eye on the expansion draft when drafting the contract. Plus who are we gonna trade him to? There'd be a riot and no-one would want him on a DP level, international etc. Just my hunch though.

As for who to protect:

Wynne
Nana
Serioux
Brennan
Fellinga
Gomez
Cronin
Sanyang
De Rosario
Vitti
White

Leave unprotected:

Edwards (pure back up for us right now but must be tempting for Philly, so leave him out as bait)
Garcia (pricey and not really needed now with Gomez doing so well, also bait for Philly)
Robbo (same basis as Dichio last season, plus Cronin, JDG and Serioux can play DCM and Robbo's not had the best season this year)
Guevara (risky, but rumours of him leaving anyway in the close season and we're too CM heavy, although he is key for us right now)
Gala (unlikely to be nicked, won't be missed much anyway other than as a domestic name of which we now have many)
Barrett (risky, but he gets paid a lot and delivers too few goals, plus he'd be pricey for Philly)
Gerba (risky again, but he's international for Philly and pricey, plus he's not been on fire since we signed him so would Philly want him?)

GA players - Frei and Fuad, so they are safe (unless Frei gets graduated, in which case he HAS to be protected)

Man - it's getting hard, we have too good of a squad now for all this expansion crap! I have generally favoured youth over experience to be protected.

Hopefully Mo will have some canny insights into all this again (remember Smith going to Seattle?!) or at least will have made a deal to trade draft picks for someone in an instant trade-back. Play them like a fiddle Mo!

Cashcleaner
09-18-2009, 08:15 AM
Barrett and Garcia for sure. Robbo? Hmmmm.....
I can see Wynne being put up. Jabs makes a good point about Guevera.

Hitcho
09-18-2009, 08:17 AM
I tell you what is going to be a real headache - the Vancouver expansion draft, because they'll want all our Canadian players but will equally take US players to trade to other MLS teams. That's going to be a nightmare when it comes around.

prizby
09-18-2009, 08:17 AM
vitti is on loan, not sure he can be claimed by another team...
also vitti is getting a renegotiated contract

what about who are the 11 players you would protect?

prizby
09-18-2009, 08:21 AM
I tell you what is going to be a real headache - the Vancouver expansion draft, because they'll want all our Canadian players but will equally take US players to trade to other MLS teams. That's going to be a nightmare when it comes around.

thats when we gotta pick up the likes of Jankovic, Hainault, and Johnson

Lucky Strike
09-18-2009, 08:24 AM
Who I'd want protected: Cronin, Attakora, DeGuzman, Ibrahim, Gerba, Brennan, DeRosario, Serioux, Wynne, White, Edwards, Guevara, Sanyang, Frei, Gomez.

Who ought to be left unprotected: Garcia (too expensive for what he brings), Barrett (if he made 100K rather than 200K I'd keep him), Gala (seems everyone and their dogs are ahead of him on the depth chart - trusting the coaching staff), Robinson (play has dropped off considerably, very expensive and probably wouldn't be taken by Philadelphia anyway).

Who I'm unsure about: Fellinga (haven't seen enough of him though he looks good so far).

Who doesn't figure in the draft: Vitti (who I would leave unprotected anyway).

If I were Mo, I'd construct my final XI list around these ideas.

Lucky Strike
09-18-2009, 08:26 AM
I tell you what is going to be a real headache - the Vancouver expansion draft, because they'll want all our Canadian players but will equally take US players to trade to other MLS teams. That's going to be a nightmare when it comes around.

That and Portland is also coming in at the same time, which means up to 2 players lost. They'll likely be cause for chagrin on that day.

Nodoubtguy
09-18-2009, 08:28 AM
Can Vitti be selected since he is on loan??

Roogsy
09-18-2009, 08:29 AM
I tell you what is going to be a real headache - the Vancouver expansion draft, because they'll want all our Canadian players but will equally take US players to trade to other MLS teams. That's going to be a nightmare when it comes around.

Aw crap! I never even thought of that! :eek:

RedMAN127
09-18-2009, 08:30 AM
does JDG have a no trade clause, if so we have to protect him Assume JDG is not applicable .. doubt there is a no trade clause, cause if laliga came calling he would want to go.

Protect:

3Nana Attakora
2Sam Cronin14Dwayne De Rosario5Lesly Fellinga24Stefan Frei27Gabe Gala10Ali Gerba22Amadou Sanyang17O'Brian White15Adrian Serioux32Emmanuel Gomez

Roogsy
09-18-2009, 08:33 AM
My guess is he won't, because Mo is a canny fella and will have had an eye on the expansion draft when drafting the contract. Plus who are we gonna trade him to? There'd be a riot and no-one would want him on a DP level, international etc. Just my hunch though.

As for who to protect:

Wynne
Nana
Serioux
Brennan
Fellinga
Gomez
Cronin
Sanyang
De Rosario
Vitti
White

Leave unprotected:

Edwards (pure back up for us right now but must be tempting for Philly, so leave him out as bait)
Garcia (pricey and not really needed now with Gomez doing so well, also bait for Philly)
Robbo (same basis as Dichio last season, plus Cronin, JDG and Serioux can play DCM and Robbo's not had the best season this year)
Guevara (risky, but rumours of him leaving anyway in the close season and we're too CM heavy, although he is key for us right now)
Gala (unlikely to be nicked, won't be missed much anyway other than as a domestic name of which we now have many)
Barrett (risky, but he gets paid a lot and delivers too few goals, plus he'd be pricey for Philly)
Gerba (risky again, but he's international for Philly and pricey, plus he's not been on fire since we signed him so would Philly want him?)

GA players - Frei and Fuad, so they are safe (unless Frei gets graduated, in which case he HAS to be protected)

Man - it's getting hard, we have too good of a squad now for all this expansion crap! I have generally favoured youth over experience to be protected.

Hopefully Mo will have some canny insights into all this again (remember Smith going to Seattle?!) or at least will have made a deal to trade draft picks for someone in an instant trade-back. Play them like a fiddle Mo!


Protected lists are a gamble aren't they?

I might, MIGHT be willing to leave DeRo unprotected only because of the reduced chances that Philly would want to pick up his almost DP salary. Although Salt Lake tried that strategy and Mo burned them in our expansion draft. I believe that's how we picked up Cunningham on the cheap.

What we have a surplus of is midfielders so I might leave Vitti unprotected as well because even though I do like him, losing him wouldn't be a huge loss. Looks like you did that with Guevara instead. Guevara is relatively cheap for the amount of good production he brings so I might switch the two instead.

Garcia isn't a long term player for us so leaving him exposed is probably an automatic.

Nodoubtguy
09-18-2009, 08:34 AM
As for who to protect:

Wynne
Nana
Serioux
Gomez
Cronin
Sanyang
De Rosario
Vitti
White
Guevara (on the condition that he's staying next season)
Gerba

Leave unprotected:

Brennan
Edwards
Garcia
Robbo
Gala
Barrett
Fellinga

Hope they would take Barrett

Lucky Strike
09-18-2009, 08:35 AM
If I were Mo, I'd try to circumvent any selection headaches by offering some draft picks to Philadelphia in a gentleman's agreement to select only certain unprotected TFC players.

To clarify, most of us who will try and put a 11-player list together for the sake of discussion will have to leave some players you want to keep, unprotected. Here, TFC would be offering something to Philadelphia not to take those players we left unprotected but that we actually want to keep but just ran out of space in the 11-player list.

Make sense?

ManUtd4ever
09-18-2009, 08:48 AM
Who I'd want protected: Cronin, Attakora, DeGuzman, Ibrahim, Gerba, Brennan, DeRosario, Serioux, Wynne, White, Edwards, Guevara, Sanyang, Frei, Gomez.

Who ought to be left unprotected: Garcia (too expensive for what he brings), Barrett (if he made 100K rather than 200K I'd keep him), Gala (seems everyone and their dogs are ahead of him on the depth chart - trusting the coaching staff), Robinson (play has dropped off considerably, very expensive and probably wouldn't be taken by Philadelphia anyway).

Who I'm unsure about: Fellinga (haven't seen enough of him though he looks good so far).

Who doesn't figure in the draft: Vitti (who I would leave unprotected anyway).

If I were Mo, I'd construct my final XI list around these ideas.

Agreed 100%...I hate to leave Robbo unprotected as I think he can be our defensive anchor next season with JDG playing more of an attacking role but his salary should discourage his selection anyway...

Nuvinho
09-18-2009, 08:51 AM
Exempt:

De Guzman (DP)
Frei (GA)
Ibbe (GA)

Protected:
1.Gomez
2.Serioux
3.Nana
4.Cronin
5.DeRo
6.Gerba
7.White
8.Sanyang
9.Wynne
10.Fellinga
11.Edwards

Unprotected:
1.Garcia
2.Brennan (don't think a team will take a flyer on him)
3.Guevara (back to his homeland?)
4.Robbo
5.Barrett
6.Gala
7.Vitti

Roogsy
09-18-2009, 08:52 AM
If they left Garcia open and Philly picked him up, I think he'd be pretty happy. His family is in the US and I just get the feeling the man wants to go back. It's closer to home.

Nuvinho
09-18-2009, 08:52 AM
can we merge the other thread in the news section?

Nuvinho
09-18-2009, 08:53 AM
If they left Garcia open and Philly picked him up, I think he'd be pretty happy. His family is in the US and I just get the feeling the man wants to go back. It's closer to home.

His contract also expires at the end of this year.

yellowfellow
09-18-2009, 08:57 AM
Vancouver and Portland have their teams already. Is there an expansion draft for them?

trane
09-18-2009, 09:02 AM
Who I'd want protected: Cronin, Attakora, DeGuzman, Ibrahim, Gerba, Brennan, DeRosario, Serioux, Wynne, White, Edwards, Guevara, Sanyang, Frei, Gomez.

Who ought to be left unprotected: Garcia (too expensive for what he brings), Barrett (if he made 100K rather than 200K I'd keep him), Gala (seems everyone and their dogs are ahead of him on the depth chart - trusting the coaching staff), Robinson (play has dropped off considerably, very expensive and probably wouldn't be taken by Philadelphia anyway).

Who I'm unsure about: Fellinga (haven't seen enough of him though he looks good so far).

Who doesn't figure in the draft: Vitti (who I would leave unprotected anyway).

If I were Mo, I'd construct my final XI list around these ideas.


I agree, the only one I am not sure about is Guevarra, not because he is not a good player for us, but because at times he seem to have hit the wall. However, I would still like to have him available even if he no longer starts, so at the end of the day I would likely protect him.

Also I may not protect Brennan, I do not think he has been horrible, but we need an upgrade at the back, and his best days seem to be over.

Steve
09-18-2009, 09:06 AM
My guess is he won't, because Mo is a canny fella and will have had an eye on the expansion draft when drafting the contract. Plus who are we gonna trade him to? There'd be a riot and no-one would want him on a DP level, international etc. Just my hunch though.

As for who to protect:

Wynne
Nana
Serioux
Brennan
Fellinga
Gomez
Cronin
Sanyang
De Rosario
Vitti
White

Leave unprotected:

Edwards (pure back up for us right now but must be tempting for Philly, so leave him out as bait)
Garcia (pricey and not really needed now with Gomez doing so well, also bait for Philly)
Robbo (same basis as Dichio last season, plus Cronin, JDG and Serioux can play DCM and Robbo's not had the best season this year)
Guevara (risky, but rumours of him leaving anyway in the close season and we're too CM heavy, although he is key for us right now)
Gala (unlikely to be nicked, won't be missed much anyway other than as a domestic name of which we now have many)
Barrett (risky, but he gets paid a lot and delivers too few goals, plus he'd be pricey for Philly)
Gerba (risky again, but he's international for Philly and pricey, plus he's not been on fire since we signed him so would Philly want him?)


Protect Brennan? And Vitti? I don't know if I'd do that. I mean, Brennan has been rather poor this season to be honest, and as a Canadian, I doubt he will be selected by Philly (and if they did, oh well, he would probably retire). Vitti should only be selected if we can get him for a MUCH lower salary than he is making now. He is either a terrible striker, or a midfielder in an overcrowded midfield. Leave him off the list.

Instead I would protect Guevara if he wants to stay (MLS is taking time off for world cup anyway, and right now our attack relies on him) and either Barrett or Gerba (philly might take Gerba because we want him, and depending on how much Barrett makes next year, I like him as a winger/super-sub).

London
09-18-2009, 09:06 AM
please merge this with the other thread as this is not news!!!!!


can someone please make me a mod of the news section!!!
i will keep it clean!!!

Shaughno
09-18-2009, 09:08 AM
Protected:
Ibrahim* (Gen Adidas)
deGuz
deRo
Attakora
Frei (Gen Adidas.. but probably not next year)
Gerba
OBW
Sanyang
Wynne
Cronin
Vitti
Fellinga or Gomez


UnProtected:
Brennan
Serioux
Guevara
Gomez
Barrett
Fellinga
Robinson
Gala
Edwards
Garcia


I don't see the point in protecting Guevara. IF he comes back next year, it's probably his last in this league anyways. Regardless we have JDG to do his job now.

Robinson is too expensive to protect.

Brennan, why would they want an aging Int'l defender unless it's to trade back to us for someone else.

Serioux, again aging Int'l defender.

I liked what I saw in the short shift from Fellinga. It's nice to have a natural winger and I'd rather NOT lose our only real winger aside from Brennan.

I'd like to keep Gomez... as a promising young Int'l defender, I think he might actually get picked if we left him open.

I'd consider leaving Gerba open as he hasn't shown much to impress scouts around the league so far, but it's a risk as we know he can play given the right tactics. Given he's an Int'l for Philly, they might pass anyway.

I think if we leave Vitti unprotected he might go... I like what he brings to the team and am actually quite eager to see how he plays alongside JDG.

v00d00daddy
09-18-2009, 09:09 AM
As for who to protect:

Wynne
Nana
Serioux
Gomez
Cronin
Sanyang
De Rosario
Vitti
White
Guevara (on the condition that he's staying next season)
Gerba

Leave unprotected:

Brennan
Edwards
Garcia
Robbo
Gala
Barrett
Fellinga

Hope they would take Barrett

I agree with your list 100%

I don't get why some people have Brennan on their protected list.

Globetrotter
09-18-2009, 09:10 AM
1. Why protect Brennan?
2. Vancouver can only take 1 player from us, just like any other expansion team.

Shaughno
09-18-2009, 09:10 AM
Agreed with above. Nuvinho, JDG is not auto protected. Frei probably won't be Gen Adidas next year.

Globetrotter
09-18-2009, 09:14 AM
Wynne, Frei, Edwards, Serioux, DeRo, deGuz, O'B, Sanyang, Gomez, Attakora, Cronin

trane
09-18-2009, 09:16 AM
Protected:
Ibrahim* (Gen Adidas)
deGuz
deRo
Attakora
Frei (Gen Adidas.. but probably not next year)
Gerba
OBW
Sanyang
Wynne
Cronin
Vitti
Fellinga or Gomez


UnProtected:
Brennan
Serioux
Guevara
Gomez
Barrett
Fellinga
Robinson
Gala
Edwards
Garcia


I don't see the point in protecting Guevara. IF he comes back next year, it's probably his last in this league anyways. Regardless we have JDG to do his job now.

Robinson is too expensive to protect.

Brennan, why would they want an aging Int'l defender unless it's to trade back to us for someone else.

Serioux, again aging Int'l defender.

I liked what I saw in the short shift from Fellinga. It's nice to have a natural winger and I'd rather NOT lose our only real winger aside from Brennan.

I'd like to keep Gomez... as a promising young Int'l defender, I think he might actually get picked if we left him open.

I'd consider leaving Gerba open as he hasn't shown much to impress scouts around the league so far, but it's a risk as we know he can play given the right tactics. Given he's an Int'l for Philly, they might pass anyway.

I think if we leave Vitti unprotected he might go... I like what he brings to the team and am actually quite eager to see how he plays alongside JDG.

If they take him, we can stay strikless once again, or not deep enought at striker, as you said right tactics, JDG and De Ro, he should work out.

Shaughno
09-18-2009, 09:16 AM
Oh guys, FYI. Ibby is probably the only one with Gen Adidas status next year. I'm pretty sure Frei won't be, even though he is this season.

Shaughno
09-18-2009, 09:17 AM
If they take him, we can stay strikless once again, or not deep enought at striker, as you said right tactics, JDG and De Ro, he should work out.

Which is why I have him in my original picks, depending on Mo's dealings, he may pull some magic as usual and work a deal with Philly.

Yohan
09-18-2009, 09:22 AM
PROTECT
Nana ATTAKORA
Position: CB/RB
2009 MLS Status: S
Age 20
-TFC's best defender all season. Can play CB and RB equally well. Cheap, plus a Canadian.

Sam CRONIN
Position: CM/RW
2009 MLS Status:SI
Age 22
-Versatile midfielder who have filled in other positions before. Has good passing and crossing skills. Learning to read the game and will be a very good MLS player near future.

Dwayne DE ROSARIO
Position: AM/F
2009 MLS Status: S
Age 31
-TFC's most potent offensive threat every game. Clutch player scoring key goals. Versatile at all attacking positions

Stefan FREI
Position: GK
2009 MLS Status:SI
Age 23
-In running for MLS rookie of the year. Will be a highly sought after GK in the future. Made tons of key stops behind fragile TFC defence. Is current a Generation Adidas player, but will graduate from this program due to number of games played.

Ali GERBA
Position: F
2009 MLS Status: S
Age 28
-Key striker for Canadian MNT who haven't found his groove in MLS yet. Still adjusting to MLS game. Requires a lot of service in order for him to be productive. Can finish and is a poacher.

Emmanuel GOMEZ
Position: CB
2009 MLS Status:SI
Age 18
-Young prospect who has shown signs of promise. Is worth keeping to see if he pans out as serviceable MLS defender.

Amadou SANYANG
Position: CB/DM
2009 MLS Status:SI
Age 18
-Another youth prospect who can play both CB and DM. Hard nosed tackler. Needs to control his aggression and will turn into a good player in future.

Adrian SERIOUX
Position: CB/RB/DM
2009 MLS Status: S
Age 30
-Versatile defender who can play DM equally well. Aggressive and hard nosed tackler who plays a very physical game. Needs a commanding CB partner in order to be most effective in defence, as he is not an organizer or communicator. Has incredible long throw

O'brian WHITE
Position: F
2009 MLS Status: S
Age 22
-Haven't played many games due to injury, but already shows signs to be most deadly finisher in the squad.

Marvell WYNNE
Position: RB
2009 MLS Status: SI
Age 23
-Has tremendous speed and vertical leap. Terrible positioning. Makes good forward runs. Always going to be a working project, but his upsides means teams will take a chance on him developing into a good MLS player

Brian EDWARDS
Position: GK
2009 MLS Status: SI
Age 24
-Back up GK with great shot stopping skills. Decent back up GKs are plenty in MLS, however Edwards is one of best none starting GKs right now.

EXPOSE
Chad BARRETT
Position: F/LW/RW
2009 MLS Status: SI
Age 24
-Inconsistency in front of net plus 200k/yr salary may cost him his job in MLS, however, his emerging game as a decent winger and relative youth may tempt Philly to take a shot on him. Hardest working guy on the team and will not be an international for Philly.

Jim BRENNAN
Position: LB/LW
2009 MLS Status: S
Age 32
-TFC team captain is getting old. Still has decent crossing and rocket of a left foot, but is turning into a liability in defence, often getting exposed by more technical and speedy attackers. May still be a decent winger in MLS, but his days at LB is numbered. Plus a 200k salary and international status for Philly means he will likely not get picked.

Julian DE GUZMAN
Position: CM/DM
2009 MLS Status: S
Age 28
-TFC's Designated Player has great pedigree. Mainstay of Canadian MNT. Good passing. Great reading of the game.
Philly may take a chance on JDG, however, his huge salary plus international status means probably not. Plus it'd be a huge bitchslap to TFC. Still, Philly may pick JDG and trade back to TFC.

Lesly FEILLINGA
Position: LB
2009 MLS Status: SI
Age 23
-A product of Dutch Eredivisie youth teams, however he is a relative unknown in MLS. International status is a minus, but his youth is a plus.

Gabe GALA
Position: LW
2009 MLS Status: S
Age 20
-Looked good on the games that he did play, but perhaps due to his university studies, have not seen many games for TFC. Again, international status for a back up player means he's staying in Toronto.

Nick GARCIA
Position: CB
2009 MLS Status: SI
Age 30
-MLS veteran defender with plenty of experience. Good positioning and is a leader, however, physically weak for CB and very slow. A 200k salary, but if Philly can find no other decent CB, may be worth picking.

Amado GUEVARA
Position: CM/AM
2009 MLS Status: SI
Age 33
-Aging playmaker. Former MLS MVP. When he wants to play, he's the most creative player in the team. When he's not, he's a liability. Getting really old and has a 300k salary. Philly may want to take him as a short term midfield solution.

Carl ROBINSON
Position: DM
2009 MLS Status: SI
Age 32
-Aging defensive midfielder on his best day will turn middle of park into a black hole for opposition attackers. Hard nosed and physical tackler. Reads the game well. However, poor passing leading to turnovers. International status plus a 300k salary means he'll be left alone by Philly.

Pablo VITTI
Position: F/LW/AM/RW
2009 MLS Status: SI
Age 24
-Another converted striker into an attacking midfield player. Has best technical skills in TFC. Poor finishing and crossing. Needs to work on his vision and he'll turn into a great MLS playmaker. However, he is still adjusting to MLS style of play, and switching teams may hamper that. Plus a 300k salary and international status. He is on loan from Independiente, and contract status at the end of the season is unknown.

EXEMPTION
Fuad IBRAHIM
Position: F
2009 MLS Status: GA
Age 18
-Young striker with plenty of upside. Needs to improve his physical strength. Exempt due to Generation Adidas status

***
Keep in mind that you'll get mostly back up and occassional starters in expansion draft, so teams don't necessarily look for high salary or international players.

It was a toss up between Feillinga and Edwards, but I think Edwards can start in MLS and has more value than Feillinga who is an unknown.

Yohan
09-18-2009, 09:27 AM
Serioux, again aging Int'l defender.

c'mon. 30-31 is not aging defender. plus serioux is versatile and makes a good depth player (even at 150k salary)

trane
09-18-2009, 09:28 AM
^ those are fair assessment for the most part of our players.

Shaughno
09-18-2009, 09:31 AM
c'mon. 30-31 is not aging defender. plus serioux is versatile and makes a good depth player (even at 150k salary)

It is when you're talking Int'l defenders. Garcia is probably a better pick for Philly given that he's domestic and they are relatively similar in terms of skill levels.

Roogsy
09-18-2009, 09:32 AM
c'mon. 30-31 is not aging defender. plus serioux is versatile and makes a good depth player (even at 150k salary)

Usually not, but I don't think Serioux has that many more years left in him with the amount of injuries he's had over his career.

Yohan
09-18-2009, 09:32 AM
Protected lists are a gamble aren't they?

I might, MIGHT be willing to leave DeRo unprotected only because of the reduced chances that Philly would want to pick up his almost DP salary. Although Salt Lake tried that strategy and Mo burned them in our expansion draft. I believe that's how we picked up Cunningham on the cheap.


Actually, TFC picked up Jason Kreis from expansion draft. Who got traded back immediately IIRC

Yohan
09-18-2009, 09:33 AM
Usually not, but I don't think Serioux has that many more years left in him with the amount of injuries he's had over his career.
the grass will give serioux longevity ;)

poppamidnight
09-18-2009, 09:35 AM
Stop being silly, we only really have 12/13 protection-worthy (depending on assessments of Feligna + Gomez)

Protect:
1- JDG
2- DeRo
3- OBW
4- Nana
5 - Wynne
6 - Gerba
7 - Sanyang
8 - Robbo
9 - Jimmy B
10 - Cronin
11 - Serioux

Expose:
- Amado = BB said he wants to go home, therefore value gone if teams know he's outta here.
- Vitti = Useless. Don't even want him back at reduced salary
- Barrett = even more useless than above
- Garcia = even more useless than 2 previous.... our current Harmse (version 2.0)
-Feligna = Haven't seem much of, therefore hasn't overtaken Serioux...YET (shouldn't be that hard to do)
- Gomez = Looked shaky on backline. Not as shaky as Garcia, but shaky none the less
-Edwards = I think we can pick up another B/U via drafts.... not worried about that. Worse-case: Bring Sutton Back
-Gala = coaches don't even want to use.

Frei + Ibbe are GA = exempt

Bobo
09-18-2009, 09:43 AM
Is Vitti even an issue here? He's not our player. And if Mo wants to keep him, why not just wait til after the draft to do it?

Nodoubtguy
09-18-2009, 09:45 AM
Stop being silly, we only really have 12/13 protection-worthy (depending on assessments of Feligna + Gomez)

Protect:
1- JDG
2- DeRo
3- OBW
4- Nana
5 - Wynne
6 - Gerba
7 - Sanyang
8 - Robbo
9 - Jimmy B
10 - Cronin
11 - Serioux

Expose:
- Amado = BB said he wants to go home, therefore value gone if teams know he's outta here.
- Vitti = Useless. Don't even want him back at reduced salary
- Barrett = even more useless than above
- Garcia = even more useless than 2 previous.... our current Harmse (version 2.0)
-Feligna = Haven't seem much of, therefore hasn't overtaken Serioux...YET (shouldn't be that hard to do)
- Gomez = Looked shaky on backline. Not as shaky as Garcia, but shaky none the less
-Edwards = I think we can pick up another B/U via drafts.... not worried about that. Worse-case: Bring Sutton Back
-Gala = coaches don't even want to use.

Frei + Ibbe are GA = exempt

Frei will not be GA next season

Kaz
09-18-2009, 09:49 AM
The only problem on that list is the two Canadians.

But basically it's good.
so long as JDG and Frei are needed.

Edwards I wouldn't worry about protecting, nor Wynne.

Exempt:

Ibbe (GA)

Protected:
1.Gomez
2.Serioux
3.Nana
4.Cronin
5.DeRo
6.Gerba
7.White
8.Sanyang
9. De Guzman
10.Fellinga
11.Frei


Unprotected:
1.Garcia
2.Brennan
3.Guevara
4.Robbo
5.Barrett
6.Gala
7.Vitti
8.Edwards
9.Wynne

Flipityflu
09-18-2009, 10:49 AM
i can't argue with your list, but i have grave concerns about losing defenders when we have no depth in that area. i hope that Mo has that at his priority in the off season.

my guess is that wynne will be picked if left unprotected, and i think that is exactly what will happen.

Nodoubtguy
09-18-2009, 10:52 AM
Exempt:

Ibbe (GA)

Protected:
1.Gomez
2.Serioux
3.Nana
4.Cronin
5.DeRo
6.Gerba
7.White
8.Sanyang
9. De Guzman
10.Guevara
11.Frei


Unprotected:
1.Garcia
2.Brennan
3.Fellinga
4.Robbo
5.Barrett
6.Gala
7.Edwards

Vitti - not sure where he falls into this since he's on a loan.

poppamidnight
09-18-2009, 10:52 AM
Frei will not be GA next season

But the expansion draft occurs in November,

Is it not still classified as GA?

If not then no biggie,
Drop Serioux for him....

His temper hurts us more than he actually brings to the field.

Of course all this depends on our sale of certain guys...
How much longer can/do we hold:

Sanyang
Wynne
Frei

All 3 have garnered interest abroad

Lucky Strike
09-18-2009, 10:59 AM
Vancouver and Portland have their teams already. Is there an expansion draft for them?

Unless MLS radically changes its mind then yes, Seattle had a draft and a pre-existing team.

Lucky Strike
09-18-2009, 11:05 AM
I agree, the only one I am not sure about is Guevarra, not because he is not a good player for us, but because at times he seem to have hit the wall. However, I would still like to have him available even if he no longer starts, so at the end of the day I would likely protect him.

Also I may not protect Brennan, I do not think he has been horrible, but we need an upgrade at the back, and his best days seem to be over.

On Guevara, it'll be up to Mo to gauge whether he'll be staying another year and then protect or expose him as necessary. If he wants to stay (and hopefully at a reduced salary), I'd gladly have him in a heartbeat.

As for Brennan, it is highly unlikely he would have made my final XI out of the players in the "protect" category of my earlier post, precisely for the reasons you mentioned. That and I always say I like the guy at LM better because he's an actual winger normally, something we always complain we lack.

I still like my gentleman's agreement solution better though. :D

RedRum
09-18-2009, 11:14 AM
Protected lists are a gamble aren't they?

I might, MIGHT be willing to leave DeRo unprotected only because of the reduced chances that Philly would want to pick up his almost DP salary. Although Salt Lake tried that strategy and Mo burned them in our expansion draft. I believe that's how we picked up Cunningham on the cheap.

What we have a surplus of is midfielders so I might leave Vitti unprotected as well because even though I do like him, losing him wouldn't be a huge loss. Looks like you did that with Guevara instead. Guevara is relatively cheap for the amount of good production he brings so I might switch the two instead.

Garcia isn't a long term player for us so leaving him exposed is probably an automatic.

Has mighty_toronto_fc taken over your name? That's insanity. Think about it... Philly has sold alot of tickets and with their supporters well established already, they, like TFC will probably be profitable in their first year. Coupled with the cap going up, DeRo would be scooped up in a micro-second. He is worth every penny he is paid, and then some.

CoachGT
09-18-2009, 11:15 AM
Generally, I agree with your picks Yohan. My only disagreement is Wynne - I'd leave him exposed and protect JDG - I can't see how TFC cannot protect JDG, regardless of salary or anything else.

Ageroo
09-18-2009, 11:16 AM
Has mighty_toronto_fc taken over your name? That's insanity. Think about it... Philly has sold alot of tickets and with their supporters well established already, they, like TFC will probably be profitable in their first year. Coupled with the cap going up, DeRo would be scooped up in a micro-second. He is worth every penny he is paid, and then some.

I have to agree here.....you cannot take that chance....and I am sure he is on the do not touch list. Probably worked into his contract. DeRo is going nowhere.

London
09-18-2009, 11:16 AM
Has mighty_toronto_fc taken over your name? That's insanity. Think about it... Philly has sold alot of tickets and with their supporters well established already, they, like TFC will probably be profitable in their first year. Coupled with the cap going up, DeRo would be scooped up in a micro-second. He is worth every penny he is paid, and then some.


i totally agree dero needs protecting.
a DP type player with a non DP salary

Cashcleaner
09-18-2009, 11:33 AM
i can't argue with your list, but i have grave concerns about losing defenders when we have no depth in that area. i hope that Mo has that at his priority in the off season.

my guess is that wynne will be picked if left unprotected, and i think that is exactly what will happen.

Well, the recent talk from him I heard is that he's still looking at two more Canadian players and my bet is that at least one is a solid defender. Maybe both are? I just have a gut feeling that defence issues won't be a problem coming into next season.

rocker
09-18-2009, 12:02 PM
Stop being silly, we only really have 12/13 protection-worthy (depending on assessments of Feligna + Gomez)

Protect:
1- JDG
2- DeRo
3- OBW
4- Nana
5 - Wynne
6 - Gerba
7 - Sanyang
8 - Robbo
9 - Jimmy B
10 - Cronin
11 - Serioux



It would be silly (to use your terms) to protect Robbo and Jimmy B.

Robbo is going to be 33 years old at expansion draft time, and he makes $300K. Why would Philly waste money on him? Robbo could just retire if they want to renegotiate his contract and he doesn't want to move.

Jimmy B will be 33 one month into next season too, and he makes close to 200K, plus he's an international (like Robbo) for an American team.

There's just no upside for Philly to make either one of those guys for their 10 picks.

And since you can only lose 1 player in the draft, and possibly 5 teams won't lose anybody, there's really no risk here. If we lose Jimmy, we keep Robbo. If we lose Robbo, we keep Jimmy. And there's good odds we lose nobody.

Protect the core of the team and the promising youngsters.
Leave the rest open.

Jay P
09-18-2009, 12:19 PM
i think wynne and frei are gen addidas players so you can take em off the 11

TFC07
09-18-2009, 12:20 PM
Vitti - not worth the $$$
Guevera - too old to build around

Vitti is a free agent after this season. So you can't put him on the list.

BTW, I believe Vitti is coming back next season.

nimamalek
09-18-2009, 12:26 PM
Exempt:

De Guzman (DP)
Frei (GA)
Ibbe (GA)

Protected:
1.Gomez
2.Serioux
3.Nana
4.Cronin
5.DeRo
6.Gerba
7.White
8.Sanyang
9.Wynne
10.Fellinga
11.Edwards

Unprotected:
1.Garcia
2.Brennan (don't think a team will take a flyer on him)
3.Guevara (back to his homeland?)
4.Robbo
5.Barrett
6.Gala
7.Vitti

I agree with this except I would switch Guevara and Fellinga. I dont think people realize how important Geuvara is to our team. Now that we're getting JDG in as well we should not let his only good passing option in midfield leave. I think you can look at the first Colorado game to see how much of a difference Geuvara makes on a game

Kaz
09-18-2009, 12:28 PM
i can't argue with your list, but i have grave concerns about losing defenders when we have no depth in that area. i hope that Mo has that at his priority in the off season.

my guess is that wynne will be picked if left unprotected, and i think that is exactly what will happen.

Drop 300 from the cap for vitti and bring in two 100k defenders with some skills. then you have Felliga, serioux, Attakora, and Gomez and at least one of the defenders from that list. Plus Gala so now you are up to 8 defenders again..

that allows you to lose Brennen, Garcia, and Wynne, replaced by 2 younger and skilled defenders. and still have 8 in the back.

so if we lose Brennen Robbo, Garcia, Vitti, and Wynne in the off season, we have lost of space for building without too much risk. (and that gotta free up 750k of cap too)

If you replace them with 2 defenders, a winger and floating Mid at 100k avg each, you end up saving the team 350k in cap space.

DangerRed
09-18-2009, 12:38 PM
I tell you what is going to be a real headache - the Vancouver expansion draft, because they'll want all our Canadian players but will equally take US players to trade to other MLS teams. That's going to be a nightmare when it comes around.

The rules seem to suggest Vancouver will be no bigger a headache than Philly and whoever else who comes along.

Quote:

Maximum Player Loss
• Once a player has been claimed from a team's non-protected roster, that team is eliminated from the expansion draft and may not lose any further players.

So between this and Philly we lose two guys tops.

Lucky Strike
09-18-2009, 01:03 PM
The rules seem to suggest Vancouver will be no bigger a headache than Philly and whoever else who comes along.

Quote:

Maximum Player Loss
• Once a player has been claimed from a team's non-protected roster, that team is eliminated from the expansion draft and may not lose any further players.

So between this and Philly we lose two guys tops.

I think what he was trying to get at is that with US expansion teams, TFC has the luxury of knowing that Canadian players are automatically much safer than American ones, since Canadians count as internationals for any other current MLS team, including Philadelphia. This means that Mo has clues or almost advance knowledge of which players would interest the expansion team in question.

However, with Vancouver, they're going to value Canadians and Americans the same because the former will be needed for the domestic player quota and the latter in that they have trade value with the US-based teams. Plus Vancouver is likely to have the same player statuses we have to deal with (Canadians/Americans/other internationals vs. Americans/internationals that the US teams deal with) so it makes it a lot harder for Mo to predict or have an idea as to which players will be targeted in the expansion draft.

Hitcho
09-18-2009, 01:11 PM
I think what he was trying to get at is that with US expansion teams, TFC has the luxury of knowing that Canadian players are automatically much safer than American ones, since Canadians count as internationals for any other current MLS team, including Philadelphia. This means that Mo has clues or almost advance knowledge of which players would interest the expansion team in question.

However, with Vancouver, they're going to value Canadians and Americans the same because the former will be needed for the domestic player quota and the latter in that they have trade value with the US-based teams. Plus Vancouver is likely to have the same player statuses we have to deal with (Canadians/Americans/other internationals vs. Americans/internationals that the US teams deal with) so it makes it a lot harder for Mo to predict or have an idea as to which players will be targeted in the expansion draft.

Exactly. And because we have a Canadian team and a US team coming in at the same time, we can't even come up with a strategy that sides with protecting all the Canadian players to keep them from Vancouver because then Portland will have free pick on our US players, and vice versa.

Next expansion draft will be a real headache for TFC, because Mo is in the midst of picking up a load of Canadian players before VWC and Limp Act join the league and put massive pressure on the limited Canadian resources.

S_D
09-18-2009, 01:12 PM
you don't just let Wynne go for free. He has big value in the league being domestic and physical. If you think you are going to be forced to leave him unprotected you trade him for cash and picks.

Mo loves him anyways. He won't be left unprotected.

Yohan
09-18-2009, 01:18 PM
Unless MLS radically changes its mind then yes, Seattle had a draft and a pre-existing team.
well, kinda. seattle had to sign any of their USL team players. not sure if seattle had first choice on their USL team though


Generally, I agree with your picks Yohan. My only disagreement is Wynne - I'd leave him exposed and protect JDG - I can't see how TFC cannot protect JDG, regardless of salary or anything else.
wynne has a high trade value in MLS, just because of his athleticism and growing offensive game. he's more at risk than JDG to be picked up


i think wynne and frei are gen addidas players so you can take em off the 11
Wynne graduated GA last year IIRC and Frei will be off GA due to games played this year

Nodoubtguy
09-18-2009, 01:18 PM
honestly.....I don't worry too much about the draft. From past experience, we know this is where Mojo knows how to play the game.

Lucky Strike
09-18-2009, 01:47 PM
well, kinda. seattle had to sign any of their USL team players. not sure if seattle had first choice on their USL team though

About this subject: Seattle had the right of first refusal when it came to signing players that played for the USL Sounders, provided that those players' MLS rights were not already held by another MLS team. Aside from that, they could promote as many (or as few) USL Sounders players as they liked. But no matter what they did, they were always going to have the right to an expansion draft. I would imagine it'd be the same thing for Portland and Vancouver who are getting "promoted".

TheRenter
09-18-2009, 01:48 PM
honestly.....I don't worry too much about the draft. From past experience, we know this is where Mojo knows how to play the game.

still,u never know forsure, so i wouldn't be so complacent

Nodoubtguy
09-18-2009, 01:56 PM
still,u never know forsure, so i wouldn't be so complacent

well I'm sure if Mo comes to a point that there's players he wants to keep but can't fit on the list, there will be some deals made so that Philly (or Vancouver/Portland) don't take certain unprotected players.

Kaz
09-18-2009, 01:57 PM
Wynne is also responsible nearly a dozen goals against us in the last 3 years if not more. Wynne doesn't fit with the team, and is a liability let him go. Gomez, and Attakora can both fill his position.

Nuvinho
09-18-2009, 03:07 PM
you don't just let Wynne go for free. He has big value in the league being domestic and physical. If you think you are going to be forced to leave him unprotected you trade him for cash and picks.

Mo loves him anyways. He won't be left unprotected.

Best post! You never let an asset walk away for free.

InTheCrowd
09-18-2009, 05:07 PM
i totally agree dero needs protecting.
a DP type player with a non DP salary

But he does have a DP salary doesn't he?


Also why would anyone in their right mind leave JDG unprotected?

Yohan
09-18-2009, 05:12 PM
But he does have a DP salary doesn't he?


Also why would anyone in their right mind leave JDG unprotected?
because not many teams want to spend 1.5 mil and 400k of cap on a DM

InTheCrowd
09-18-2009, 05:15 PM
because not many teams want to spend 1.5 mil and 400k of cap on a DM

I think that Philly wouldn't mind paying his salary. Not to mention that he's not just a DM. I definitely don't think it's worth risking.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-18-2009, 05:35 PM
Wynne is also responsible nearly a dozen goals against us in the last 3 years if not more. Wynne doesn't fit with the team, and is a liability let him go. Gomez, and Attakora can both fill his position.
Sorry Wynne is one of our better players...we have a midfield thats weak and need improving, no strikers or natural goal scorers,,Brennan has done
more damage allowing goals then Wynne, no line up for firing Brennan..:canada:being the omly reason he keeps his job. this team needs help all over..

Kaz
09-18-2009, 05:37 PM
I really doubt that JDG would willing go anyway, you'd have a unhappy player looking to get out of his contract the whole time while collecting a large salary.

Kaz
09-18-2009, 05:42 PM
Sorry Wynne is one of our better players...we have a midfield thats weak and need improving, no strikers or natural goal scorers,,Brennan has done
more damage allowing goals then Wynne, no line up for firing Brennan..:canada:being the omly reason he keeps his job. this team needs help all over..
Wynne has poor positioning, marking, and discipline.
other then being fast and tall wynne has nothing useful to the team. Between handball calls, and his poor marking he has been a liability on the field. A defender with better marking and positioning would be a greater boon to the team as that is where we are weak.

It's time to cut our losses with him let him go to the states and play someplace he might show some heart. The only reason to protect him is to trade him.

I really don't know why I'm even arguing this with you though.. there is no point.

Yohan
09-18-2009, 05:54 PM
Wynne has poor positioning, marking, and discipline.
other then being fast and tall wynne has nothing useful to the team. Between handball calls, and his poor marking he has been a liability on the field. A defender with better marking and positioning would be a greater boon to the team as that is where we are weak.

It's time to cut our losses with him let him go to the states and play someplace he might show some heart. The only reason to protect him is to trade him.

I really don't know why I'm even arguing this with you though.. there is no point.
wynne is only 5'10". helluva vertical leap though

and I agree. all our defenders must be good at defending first. attacking second

iansmcl
09-18-2009, 06:04 PM
other then being fast and tall wynne has nothing useful to the team.

He's 5'9"... so he's just fast! But he's getting his crossing better and has been a lot better, in my eyes, since he came back from the Confed. Cup.

Yohan
09-18-2009, 06:07 PM
He's 5'9"... so he's just fast! But he's getting his crossing better and has been a lot better, in my eyes, since he came back from the Confed. Cup.
I don't think anyone would argue that Wynne's offensive game has improved. But his defensive game is still inadequate (though he haven't been called for handballs in a long time lol)

Kaz
09-18-2009, 06:18 PM
He's 5'9"... so he's just fast! But he's getting his crossing better and has been a lot better, in my eyes, since he came back from the Confed. Cup.

Really I always thought he was taller then that.. oh well..

if he were a midfielder and not a defender that would be great... But you need to defenders... defending.

Again if the FO and MO were to recruit a decent 25 year old or two for 100k-120k a year it would be better for the team as a whole.

iansmcl
09-18-2009, 06:27 PM
I don't think anyone would argue that Wynne's offensive game has improved. But his defensive game is still inadequate (though he haven't been called for handballs in a long time lol)

I meant his game as a whole... he'd definitely be better in midfield than in defense but I wouldn't leave him unprotected just because his defense isn't that great.

mmmikey
09-18-2009, 07:11 PM
Will Edwards want to sit behind frei again? I know he's good but we could find a non international GK instead and would pretty much guarantee he's picked and no one else..

Yohan
09-18-2009, 07:23 PM
Will Edwards want to sit behind frei again? I know he's good but we could find a non international GK instead and would pretty much guarantee he's picked and no one else..
you know of any good Canadian GKs willing to play for peanuts?

ArmenJBX
09-18-2009, 07:26 PM
you know of any good Canadian GKs willing to play for peanuts?

Greg Sutton.

Currently making...0 dollars a game :D

Sorry, just had to say it :)

Gazza_55
09-18-2009, 07:50 PM
I just don't understand why we would protect Wynne. He is just not good enough for this league. Or at least for a playoff team in MLS.

InTheCrowd
09-18-2009, 08:31 PM
you know of any good Canadian GKs willing to play for peanuts?

50k isn't exactly peanuts but I'm sure we could get that done. :)

Baggio2TFC
09-18-2009, 09:04 PM
How can we get Philly to take Barrett??? Is there any rule that states we can't give Philly some $$$ to ship him out??

:)

S_D
09-18-2009, 09:57 PM
I just don't understand why we would protect Wynne. He is just not good enough for this league. Or at least for a playoff team in MLS.

He is in the right set up. If he doesn't have to worry about defensive responsibilities as much he will increase his value to the team, and increase his value to teams in the league. Mo wants to keep him.

You protect him because he is a player the US teams in the league want. If you traded him he is worth a 1st rounder + a pile of allocation cash if not more. You don't let that kind of value walk.

Now if Mo is willing to unload him, you could conceivably unload Barrett too lol.

Phili GM: Mo I want Wynne
Mo: Can't have him unless you knock my socks off and make it look like I fleeced you.
Phili GM: Wow... what are you thinking of?
Mo: I want your First rounder, second rounder and 200K in allocation cash
Phili GM: That sounds a bit rich but I would like Wynne...
Mo: I wasn't finished. You have to take Barrett in the expansion draft too.

:D:D

Dub Narcotic
09-18-2009, 11:33 PM
Exempt:

[...]

Unprotected:
1.Garcia
2.Brennan (don't think a team will take a flyer on him)
3.Guevara (back to his homeland?)
4.Robbo
5.Barrett
6.Gala
7.Vitti

Good list. I might try and move Brennan on the list for Gerba. Left-sided players are valuable in this league.

hodgkiss
09-18-2009, 11:37 PM
protect:
Nana Attakora
Sam Cronin
Julian de Guzman
Dwayne De Rosario
Stefan Frei
Gabe Gala
Ali Gerba
Emmanuel Gomez
Amadou Sanyang
Adrian Serioux
O'Brian White

unprotect:
Jim Brennan
Chad Barrett
Brian Edwards
Lesly Fellinga
Pablo Vitti
Marvell Wynne


release:
Nick Garcia
Carl Robinson

ArmenJBX
09-19-2009, 10:32 AM
We could leave JDG unprotected because Phili wouldn't take him anyways. He's too expensive for a DM.

Nick Garcia should be left unprotected BUT not released. I know people here don't like him but I think he's our best defender. I know I'll get flamed for this but if you look at every mistake he makes, he makes at least 3 good defensive moves.

I dunno, I really like Nick Garcia, he adds something we don't have in this defense; a true defender. Only Nana and Attakora are the other two real defenders. Wynne and Brennan are wingers by heart, Serioux is a DM.

TFCtoMUFC
09-19-2009, 10:50 AM
We could leave JDG unprotected because Phili wouldn't take him anyways. He's too expensive for a DM.

Nick Garcia should be left unprotected BUT not released. I know people here don't like him but I think he's our best defender. I know I'll get flamed for this but if you look at every mistake he makes, he makes at least 3 good defensive moves.

I dunno, I really like Nick Garcia, he adds something we don't have in this defense; a true defender. Only Nana and Attakora are the other two real defenders. Wynne and Brennan are wingers by heart, Serioux is a DM.

I know this is probably a typo but Nana is Attakora.

mmmikey
09-19-2009, 01:46 PM
protect:
Nana Attakora - young, already stable
Sam Cronin - good rookie contrib, huge value as an American
Julian de Guzman - long shot, but would give them instant marketing, Philly loves defensIve types, and most dps are internationals anyways
Dwayne De Rosario - proven mls sparkplug/scorer
Stefan Frei - duh
Ali Gerba - goals for expansion team hard t come by
Emmanuel Gomez - best years ahead of him, can already do a decent job
Amadou Sanyang - ditto.. tempted to leave him off since he is early n development
Adrian Serioux - tough, plays multiple positions, decent cost
O'Brian White - um yeah
Marvell Wynne - should be good trade value, would be picked for sure, if tfc get rid of him, trade him

unprotect:
Jim Brennan - old, Canadian
Chad Barrett - plz take his contract
Brian Edwards - depending on other gk available mght not get picked but would be a starter, we should work on a project to replace frei when he moves on
Lesly Fellinga - int'l with small resume so far
Pablo Vitti - he plays a crowded position and is not likely to be picked gven his incnsistency
Nick Garcia - not long term, int'l for us
Carl Robinson - big contract and may need to go anyhow
Gabe Gala - barely plays and an int'l for them, u leave him unprotected cause i would be shocked if he was picked
Amadeo Guevara - risky. Might not be here anyhow, has a big cntract and is older. I would make that bet tho

Oldtimer
09-22-2009, 01:02 PM
bump

London
09-22-2009, 01:03 PM
cant this be merged with the other thread???

it isn't exactly news

werewolf
09-22-2009, 01:06 PM
moved.

Oldtimer
09-22-2009, 01:45 PM
I would certainly protect JDG. Besides, he probably has a clause barring trades within MLS (Now, if Mo sold him to Barcelona, he'd be happy).

wzhxvy
09-22-2009, 02:23 PM
I heard that Mo is pursuing Wayne Derosario and planning to leave him unprotected in the draft. Also under consideration is Marvin Wynne.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-22-2009, 08:46 PM
Jeez both Wayne AND Marvin?
Waynes our best centreback and Marvin has scored like 30 goals this year while playing on the wing!

Ossington Mental Youth
09-22-2009, 10:43 PM
Some rules ive stumbled upon

-The draft should be the first Wednesday after the MLS Cup.
-The protection list would be due by Tuesday of that same week.
-The rules will likely be announced in the buildup to the MLS Cup, but the same basic rules should apply:
1. Teams can protect 11 players.
2. GA players are exempt. MLS will determine what GA's, if any, will graduate before the draft takes place.
3. DPs do not have to be protected unless they have a "no trade" clause.
4. At least 3 international players must be protected (unless you have less than three, in which case you have to protect at least one).
5. Everybody else (developmental, out of contract, retired, etc.) is fair game.
6. Philly gets ten selections.
7. Once a player has been selected from a team, that team is exempt from the rest of the draft (i.e., Philly can't pick two players from the same team).

No need to protect Cronin, Frei or White if im not mistaken (they are all GAs right?)

Shway
09-23-2009, 12:00 AM
I dunno, I really like Nick Garcia, he adds something we don't have in this defense; a true defender. Only Nana and Gomez are the other two real defenders. Wynne and Brennan are wingers by heart, Serioux is a DM.


Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy.

Garcia....seriously, I think my grandma can run past him.
MLS is a fast paced game, and when i mean fast paced, long flat balls, to quick strikers....

LA game we were pushing to high, and it was Nana, and Garcia back there... it was to much for Nana, because Garcia couldnt keep up

Lucky Strike
09-23-2009, 08:39 AM
Some rules ive stumbled upon

-The draft should be the first Wednesday after the MLS Cup.
-The protection list would be due by Tuesday of that same week.
-The rules will likely be announced in the buildup to the MLS Cup, but the same basic rules should apply:
1. Teams can protect 11 players.
2. GA players are exempt. MLS will determine what GA's, if any, will graduate before the draft takes place.
3. DPs do not have to be protected unless they have a "no trade" clause.
4. At least 3 international players must be protected (unless you have less than three, in which case you have to protect at least one).
5. Everybody else (developmental, out of contract, retired, etc.) is fair game.
6. Philly gets ten selections.
7. Once a player has been selected from a team, that team is exempt from the rest of the draft (i.e., Philly can't pick two players from the same team).

No need to protect Cronin, Frei or White if im not mistaken (they are all GAs right?)

Surprisingly, only Frei is GA.

TFCtoMUFC
09-23-2009, 08:53 AM
What we need to figure out is how to convince Philly that Chad Barrett can score them goals or how Carl Robinson could add to their midfield, if we do that we shed some cap and some players that arent needed right now.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-23-2009, 08:59 AM
Surprisingly, only Frei is GA.

well thats one off the list then HAHA
what about Ibrahim is he still covered?
Wynne??

TFCtoMUFC
09-23-2009, 09:01 AM
well thats one off the list then HAHA
what about Ibrahim is he still covered?
Wynne??
Ibrahim is GA still. Wynne should get traded anyway.

Lucky Strike
09-23-2009, 09:17 AM
well thats one off the list then HAHA
what about Ibrahim is he still covered?
Wynne??

These are just my educated guesses on what I know, but Ibrahim probably yes since he's still young and hasn't played many matches, whereas Wynne is likely not, for the same reasons and he finds himself at the opposite end of the spectrum.

Detroit_TFC
09-23-2009, 09:51 AM
I would protect Edwards. He may be our primary GK after the January transfer window. I much rather keep him than start over with a new GK, veteran or rookie.

InTheCrowd
09-23-2009, 03:57 PM
I would protect Edwards. He may be our primary GK after the January transfer window. I much rather keep him than start over with a new GK, veteran or rookie.

Umm, no thank you. If Edwards is ever our starting keeper we need to bring in another goalkeeper asap!

Nuvinho
10-25-2009, 03:41 PM
back to this again.

Assuming that Frei is still going to be a GA, here is the UPDATED list of who we should protect:

Generation Adidas:

1. Frei
2. Ibby

Protected:

1. Edwards (trade value, insurance if Frei leaves)
2. Wynne (transfer value, and also trade value)
3. Nana (no need to justify this)
4. Gomez (why not) - I
5. Fellinga (can play at LB and LM) - I
6. Sanyang (will develop into a nasty player - that's good!) - I
7. Cronin (can play almost every midfield position)
8. DeGuzman (DP player, can't take a chance leaving him unprotected)
9. DeRosario (do I need to explain myself)
10. White (one of the better strikers done the stretch)
11. Barrett (hardworking, but can't finish, trade value?)

Unprotected:

1. Brennan (could retire, would retire if Philly picks him up, so why protect him)
2. Gala (They will have to offer him a senior contract)
3. Garcia (his contract is up in december)
4. Gerba (very high contract, does Philly want that?)
5. Robinson (will probably retire if Philly picks him up)
6. Vitti (don't care if he is on loan or not, why protect him)
7. Serioux (this one I was on the fence, but high contract, and a I for Philly)

*** I - International (We have to protect at least 3 international players)

I bet I will get flack for protecting Barrett over Serioux, but it comes down to trade value. I know we paid alot for Serioux, but Barrett probably has more trade value to other teams.

ArmenJBX
10-25-2009, 03:42 PM
I know this is probably a typo but Nana is Attakora.

lol wow I mucked that one up real good :D

Nuvinho
11-18-2009, 07:45 PM
Expansion draft is next Wednesday!!

From Goff:


Guidelines for next Wednesday's expansion draft are set: Philadelphia will select 10 players; current clubs must submit their 11-man protected list by Monday afternoon; no club will lose more than one player, which means five teams won't lose anyone; Generation Adidas and home-grown players (for D.C. United, that means Rodney Wallace and Bill Hamid) need not be protected; developmental players claimed must be offered a senior contract; clubs must protect designated players that have no-trade clauses.

ArmenJBX
11-18-2009, 08:00 PM
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy.

Garcia....seriously, I think my grandma can run past him.
MLS is a fast paced game, and when i mean fast paced, long flat balls, to quick strikers....

LA game we were pushing to high, and it was Nana, and Garcia back there... it was to much for Nana, because Garcia couldnt keep up

lol, i wrote it before he fucked everything up :D

How ignorant I was.. :(

Redpunkfiddle
11-18-2009, 08:06 PM
Protect:

Your precious jewels.

jloome
11-18-2009, 08:15 PM
I don't think anyone's going to pick up DeGUzman's salary and "steal" a Canadian DM as a DP for a team in philly, so protecting him likely isn't necessary unless he has a no trade clause. It's also not necessary to protect anyone who would be of "dev player" quality to Philly, as Philly will be forced to place all claimed on their senior roster.

We have a few too many central mids, but leaving youth unprotected is not a good idea, not with the ones we've got. Amado and DeRo are both central playmakers but we can't start both in that role. So I'd leavce Amado unprotected.

Jimmy is likely in his last year, but might be claimed. However, we have no other wing options right now, so we'd have to protect him. Frei, judging by the Mo Edu example, will be senior roster next year, not GA. Ibby would still be GA, I believe.

The rest are fairly obvious, I think. Anyway, here are my picks.

Protected:
DeRosario
White
Cronin
Sanyang
Wynne
Attakora
Gomez
Frei
Edwards
DeGuzman
Fellinga

I actually had a hard time finding 11 worth protecting.

Gazza_55
11-18-2009, 08:32 PM
you don't just let Wynne go for free. He has big value in the league being domestic and physical. If you think you are going to be forced to leave him unprotected you trade him for cash and picks.

Mo loves him anyways. He won't be left unprotected.


Reason #529 why Mo should be fired. M. Wynne is a defender who can't defend. If he had any trade value he should've been dealt a long time ago.

TFC OZZ
11-18-2009, 09:53 PM
If Garcia is still on this team at the start of the season; I will cut my wrists.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-18-2009, 09:55 PM
We dont have to protect frei as he is a GA

Auzzy
11-18-2009, 10:31 PM
"MLS sets 2010 Expansion Draft rules for Union"

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20091118&content_id=7683798&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

Pretty well what was expected

TFCRegina
11-19-2009, 12:01 AM
The Expansion Draft is stupid and reinforces the belief the league is diluted.

There are hundreds of thousands of footballers they could sign without poaching people from teams in the league. Why don't they just go sign them?

I've always felt it's pointless to have an expansion draft in football.

werewolf
11-19-2009, 12:22 AM
I agree its a bit useless. But it does give them something to start off with, atleast some assets to trade.

Keegan
11-19-2009, 02:58 AM
Assume JDG is not applicable .. doubt there is a no trade clause, cause if laliga came calling he would want to go.

Protect:

3Nana Attakora
2Sam Cronin14Dwayne De Rosario5Lesly Fellinga24Stefan Frei27Gabe Gala10Ali Gerba22Amadou Sanyang17O'Brian White15Adrian Serioux32Emmanuel Gomez

La Liga already did come calling... so I don't think he would leave now. Also his no trade clause applies to MLS, you can't have a no trade clause in international footy haha

Smokecell
11-19-2009, 10:18 PM
is it me or is this draft early this year? I could swear last year seattle had Keller (and possibly Ljungberg?) signed at least solid month before the expansion draft meaning it couldn't have been this close to MLS Cup

Ossington Mental Youth
11-19-2009, 10:44 PM
no clue if youre right but they did announce the Keller signing early

prizby
11-20-2009, 12:00 AM
Already Protected:
Stefan Frei

Protect
1 O'Brian White
2 Sam Cronin
3 Amadou Sanyang
4 Emmanuel Gomez
5 Nana Attakora
6 Dewayne DeRosario
7 Marvell Wynne
8 JDG
9 Fuad Ibrahim (is he still GA?)
10 Serioux
11 Edwards

Unprotected:
Robo
Guevara
Gala
Barrett
Brennan
Gerba
Fellinga
Garcia

N/A:
Vitti due to loan (not sure about the rule of a player on loan)

unsure about this vitti + international rule, so if im missing out on the rule then i guess edwards gets substituted for a senior

Hitcho
11-20-2009, 09:02 AM
I've stolen Nuvinho's format for setting out my list, thanks dude!

Generation Adidas:

1. Frei
2. Ibby

Protected:

1. Edwards
2. Wynne
3. Nana
4. Serioux
5. Gomez - I
6. Fellinga - I
7. Sanyang - I
8. Cronin
9. Guevara
10. DeRosario
11. White


Unprotected:

1. Brennan (too much $$$ and would retire if selected I think, plus he's I for Philly)
2. Gala
3. Garcia
4. Gerba (lazy, overpaid, underperforming, bad attitude, Preki won't like him)
5. Robinson (my one worry, but same boat as Brennan?)
6. Vitti
7. JDG (I thought I read that he doesn't have a "no trade" clause, so no need to protect him as he is unpoachable, and Mo will surely have had an eye on this when he did the contract, being a canny facker and all. If that's wrong, then he HAS to be protected. He's probably the single best player in MLS and Philly would take him in a heartbeat - don't forget in this league he's not just a DCM he's a Patrick Vieira if he gets his game going).

*** I - International (We have to protect at least 3 international players)

Hitcho
11-20-2009, 09:29 AM
We could leave JDG unprotected because Phili wouldn't take him anyways. He's too expensive for a DM.

Could not disagree more. He's arguably the single best player in MLS and given his position, age and experience Philly would take him in a heartbeat. If nothing else they could sell him to Europe and keep the transfer fee. If JDG is poachable then elaving him unprotected would be the single most stupid thing TFC could do. Hopefully, he doesn't have a no trade clause and is exempt.


Nick Garcia should be left unprotected BUT not released. I know people here don't like him but I think he's our best defender. I know I'll get flamed for this but if you look at every mistake he makes, he makes at least 3 good defensive moves. I dunno, I really like Nick Garcia, he adds something we don't have in this defense; a true defender.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


Only Nana and Attakora are the other two real defenders. Wynne and Brennan are wingers by heart, Serioux is a DM.

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

Nana and Attakora are the only two real defenders??!! I know he's good dude, but he's not good enough to play twice in the same line up. Although, I'd love another Attakora, that would just be too good.

Oh, and although a lot of us like to place Wynne on the wing, from what I have read he sees himself as a RB only, especially since he got a call up for the UMNT there. In MLS he can basically be either, but at a higher level he's neither. Good player to have for us though.

rocker
11-20-2009, 09:38 AM
from my observation of the previous drafts, MoJo will protect all the obvious players. Every year TFC fans have speculated about leaving off older, high priced players to preserve some younger talent.. but it never happens.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-20-2009, 09:43 AM
im not entirely sure that protecting Robbo and Guevara is a certain thing

rocker
11-20-2009, 09:46 AM
im not entirely sure that protecting Robbo and Guevara is a certain thing

based on what evidence?

Ossington Mental Youth
11-20-2009, 10:07 AM
well rumors that Guevara was returning coupled with Preki our new coach (all of this is speculation btw), as well as Robbo has also been rumored to return back home (this season), will count as an international, is older and at 300k

Hitcho
11-20-2009, 11:41 AM
It's so hard to come up with a flawless list of 11 players to protect. It will be fascinating to see what Mo does. He should have the added advantage of knowing what other GMs have been asking after etc, and have had some sneaky dealings with Philly too I expect, so that will help his choices.

Bottom line is if we lose anyone it will either be someone we don't care too much about or someone that will shortly retire or move on. The onlyplayers I am worried about are RObbo and Guevara. Neither has much trade value for different reasons. So I'd protect one and leave one open based on Mo's inside knowledge.

I'm not too worried abotu the expansion draft, Mo will have it covered. Expansion draft and superdraft are two of Mo's strong points.

billyfly
11-20-2009, 11:47 AM
Someone put the unprotected players heads on this jersey.

http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss169/mlsrumors/TT-ADP57254-2T.jpg

Nuvinho
11-20-2009, 11:47 AM
Are trades still allowed to be made up until the expansion draft? Or is the roster frozen til after the expansion draft.

Maybe we can move some of our assets (limited as it may be) to get pick and allocation cash.

rocker
11-20-2009, 11:48 AM
well rumors that Guevara was returning coupled with Preki our new coach (all of this is speculation btw), as well as Robbo has also been rumored to return back home (this season), will count as an international, is older and at 300k

Robbo came back to Toronto just for the year end party... probably not the sign of a guy who's not coming back.

Guevara could still be protected for the draft out of respect if Mo wants him back and Preki is willing to work with him. It's been 2 years, maybe heads have cooled.

Anyhow, MoJo has always made the obvious protections for the draft and has never hung out a good veteran. (maybe Guevara, if Preki decides in a few days to let him go.. but not Robbo).

Last year Nana was exposed in the draft.... good young kid. And not taken.

Nuvinho
11-20-2009, 12:10 PM
Based on the roster at the end of last year:

$2,912,478

*Includes $400K for DeGuzman
**Dichio no longer included
***Frie & Ibby not included (GAs)
****Gerba's full salary of $250K?

Protected XI:
Nana,Brennan,Cronin,DeGuzman,DeRo,Edwards,Gomez,Ro binson,Sanyang,White,Wynne
Salary total: $1,514,308

Unprotected:
Barrett $195,000
Fellinga $36,000
Gala $20,100
Garcia $190,000
Gerba $250,000
Guevara $300,000
Serioux $119,070
Vitti $288,000

Bolded players could be lost in the expansion draft (Players Philly may take - I doubt they have interest in the others).

Note: I couldn't really take off anyone in the protected 11 to make room for Guevara.

Hitcho
11-20-2009, 12:43 PM
^ I don't really understand this? How come Fellinga, Gala and Amado cannot be lost in the expansion draft?

Also, I think Jimmy is safe and we could leave him open, he'll justretire and become a coach if he gets nabbed. Plus his current salary is way too high for his age and Int status. And does anyone know if JDG has a no trade clause in his contract or not? If not, then there's no need to protect him. So, instead of Jimmy and JDG I would include Serioux and either Guevara if he wants to stay in MLS or Fellinga if Guevara wants out.

Nuvinho
11-20-2009, 01:00 PM
^ I don't really understand this? How come Fellinga, Gala and Amado cannot be lost in the expansion draft?

Also, I think Jimmy is safe and we could leave him open, he'll justretire and become a coach if he gets nabbed. Plus his current salary is way too high for his age and Int status. And does anyone know if JDG has a no trade clause in his contract or not? If not, then there's no need to protect him. So, instead of Jimmy and JDG I would include Serioux and either Guevara if he wants to stay in MLS or Fellinga if Guevara wants out.

My bad in explaining it. The bolded players are the ones that Philly may take. Any of those players they can take, but the bolded ones are more likely.

I think Garcia is from Philly?
Barrett would be a good player to have on an expansion team, works hard
Serioux is a serviceable MLS vet
Gerba can score...I guess he can?...haha!!

thisisinternetclash
11-20-2009, 01:38 PM
I'm almost entirely certain that it's not an option to leave a Designated Player unprotected in an expansion draft. I'm not sure if this means JDG is simply exempt from the draft or if the team has to use one of the allocated protection slots on him, but it's most probably one or the other.

Wooster_TFC
11-20-2009, 04:08 PM
I'm almost entirely certain that it's not an option to leave a Designated Player unprotected in an expansion draft. I'm not sure if this means JDG is simply exempt from the draft or if the team has to use one of the allocated protection slots on him, but it's most probably one or the other.

The rules explicitly state that a DP MUST be protected IF he has a no-trade clause. Other than that, he's treated the same as any other player.

Technically speaking, since Philly can attempt to re-negotiate a player's contract, arguably they could even take more DPs than their DP spot allows, expecting to trade them back to the team they took them from.

I doubt we'll see any teams DP unprotected if they are still under contract. GBS will be unprotected I bet.

Globetrotter
11-20-2009, 04:42 PM
Why are some so hot about protecting Fellinga? Have we really seen him? We could be protecting someone that plays about as well as Reda or Lombardo.

rocker
11-20-2009, 04:44 PM
yeah, Union probably don't have much of an opinion of Fellinga either way.. remember last year we were shocked Seattle took the "wrong" Smith.... and even overlooked Nana. We have an inflated sense of our own players. Look at it from the Union's eyes, and I doubt Fellinga would even register on their lists.

They only get 10 players... that's not much. They can't blow it on a guy who's barely played.

Hitcho
11-20-2009, 05:18 PM
I realised this afternoon that we're all basically looking at this from TFC fans' point of view. ie, here'sour squad, here;s who i would like to keep.

Mo, on the other hand, needs to look at this from a lot of different perspectives:

- who do philly likely want?
- who will other teams leave open that philly might want?
- can Mo strike a deal with Philly?
- who has trade value if Preki doesn't want them?
- who does Preki want to be protected and left open?

The core list should be easy to define, but it;s the fringes that will get tricky, and for a lot of different reasons. Time for Canny Mo to earn his stripes again and put that slipperiness to good use by screwing over Philly in the expansion draft!

Hitcho
11-20-2009, 05:20 PM
Also, next year's draft is gonna be hell. Not only will there be two teams picking from us, but one of them will be Canadian and subject t the same player designation rules that we are, so we cannot rely on the Int'l card for Canadians workign in our favour. on the other hand, we can;t just reverse the principle and leave US players open as there's also a US team coming in and picking. Nigthmare.

Only way out of it I can see is to leave the likes of Jimmy and Robbo on the roster through the expansion draft knowing that they will retire the next day, and then make addiiotns to the squad to replace those guys after the draft takes place. Even then, won't be an easy list to make of who to protect and leave open.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-20-2009, 07:40 PM
Robbo came back to Toronto just for the year end party... probably not the sign of a guy who's not coming back.

Guevara could still be protected for the draft out of respect if Mo wants him back and Preki is willing to work with him. It's been 2 years, maybe heads have cooled.

Anyhow, MoJo has always made the obvious protections for the draft and has never hung out a good veteran. (maybe Guevara, if Preki decides in a few days to let him go.. but not Robbo).

Last year Nana was exposed in the draft.... good young kid. And not taken.

Dont forget Mo will be working with Preki this year so it might not be the same as far as protecting players goes. I guess we will see in the end. Im just not sure that writing off Guevara and Robbo is a certain thing.

Canadian Blue
11-20-2009, 08:36 PM
Cronin Dero and Frei................everyone else can piss off including JDG

jloome
11-21-2009, 12:56 AM
Salaries are somewhat meaningless in this context, because no matter whom we leave unprotected, Philly can only take one player from each team, so we're only going to shed one salary.

SPARTACUS
11-21-2009, 01:00 AM
I tell you what is going to be a real headache - the Vancouver expansion draft, because they'll want all our Canadian players but will equally take US players to trade to other MLS teams. That's going to be a nightmare when it comes around.

hahaha.....already got you guys looking over your backs huh:canada: Dont worry we will be kind:D

TFCRegina
11-21-2009, 01:01 AM
hahaha.....already got you guys looking over your backs huh:canada: Dont worry we will be kind:D

We should pick up Braz and Lombardo specifically for the draft and then not protect them ^_^

Hitcho
11-21-2009, 01:29 AM
hahaha.....already got you guys looking over your backs huh:canada: Dont worry we will be kind:D

Yes, we're looking over our backs (?!) at a team that hasn't joined the league yet.

Or, we're being shafted by the backwards rules of the league the same way Vancouver will be when the Limp Act join the league.

TFCRegina
11-21-2009, 01:37 AM
Yes, we're looking over our backs (?!) at a team that hasn't joined the league yet.

Or, we're being shafted by the backwards rules of the league the same way Vancouver will be when the Limp Act join the league.

Backwards indeed. I've already gone off about how the expansion draft is pointless when the world is filled with a number of 3rd division players who will fill in for an expansion club. In addition, Vancouver also has their own development program. They should rely on that too.

Roogsy
11-21-2009, 11:23 AM
I don't think this is a year where we can fear someone poaching a player from us that will hurt. I could barely come up with a list of 11 players I would protect. Here are 10. I have no idea who the 11th would be but to be honest, it probably wouldn't hurt much. I suppose the 11th spot would have to be JDG because of his no-trade clause but to be honest, I would like to have spent the DP spot elsewhere.

Wynne
Nana
Serioux
Fellinga
Gomez
Cronin
Sanyang
De Rosario
White
Edwards