2010 Season Tickets info? [Archive] - Page 3

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 01:32 PM

It is what it is. I bet I could find a whole a whole slew of individuals that would completely disagree with you and would argue that we shouldn't be sticking our noses in anything they don't want us to.

The rules change daily. Haven't you gotten the memo?

See Barmy believes in the Supporters group as a well you know ...group. He feels that an SG claiming to be a legitimate SG should handle itself as such.

I have to agree with him though. Someone gets assulted, no one says shit, someone else lights up a cigarette and we have RPBs calling security and telling other supporters that they don't belong in 112.

But like Roogs said, this is about ticket prices. Something we will never have any control over so lets discuss it!

I for one am HAPPY the ticket prices are going up. Being a self made millionaire I have a lot of idsposable income and a small increase in price will not deter me from watching 87 minutes of football on any given saturday (or possible Wednesday) Thats right. 87 minutes. I like to leave early to avoid traffic.

nobodybeatsthewiz

09-17-2009, 01:33 PM

Like every year, Shaughno is one of the only people here that sees how shitty this deal is for the fans. Sure, look at the absolute dollar increase, and sign back up because it's very little. But again, extrapolate the percentage increase we've seen every year out for another 5-10 years, and you'll see where we're heading.
So you have 2 choices -- wait until then to complain, or start voicing your displeasure now.
I wrote a letter to the FO last year, and am about to pen another right now.
This team is worth nothing beyond what the fans bring to it. MLSE can chase us away at their peril.

he isnt the only one.

arbogast

09-17-2009, 01:34 PM

I don't buy this. Other than Letoux all their USL players are fringe players on their roster. Its pretty much a totally different squad than their 2008 USL squad.

Besides, by year three, with one of the highest payrolls in the league thanks to allocation, we shouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot, we should be dominating this league already....

But he squad is the only thing that changed (along with the head coach). The fact is, they had all their backroom staff already in place and the foundation was already set.

menefreghista

09-17-2009, 01:36 PM

But he squad is the only thing that changed (along with the head coach). The fact is, they had all their backroom staff already in place and the foundation was already set.

The squad and the coach (along with the GM) are the most important things though....

nobodybeatsthewiz

09-17-2009, 01:37 PM

I'll make sure next time that I police this stuff myself. I thought there was a chain of command. A)incident occurs in 112 with someone representing RPB ie: waving an RPB flag B) Bring up complaint about said person to the almighties in the organization C) A resoloution is found and the "BUNKer" is safe for all to enjoy again. I was also referring more to the sac the CSA shirts from a while back(I know it's not players or TFC). Some of you may not have been around then. Perhaps it is this get along gang mind set that has seen so many Good RPB's become so manyGood Ex-RPB's. Banned in 3...2...1...

no ones banning you stu.

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 01:38 PM

you cant be bothered with the friendly, i cant be bothered with the canadian championship matches whats the club to do? sell all these
as sepearte tickets? Im sure you could sell that firendly off to a RPM member through the ticket exchage as i could with the canadian championship ones.

Fair enough, yet I dont understand your logic (Meaningless friendly vs tournament play).

PS. I'll give you first crack at buying my friendlies next year (at face value of coarse).

Roogsy

09-17-2009, 01:38 PM

That's gotta be a first. Giving such credit to the backroom staff for the product on the pitch?

I guess we should be holding our tickets reps responsible for the product on our pitch then? I will make sure to give them hell if TFC don't make the playoffs. That is some incredible logic!

The squad and the coach (along with the GM) are the most important things though....

"Most important" isn't even strong enough.

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 01:39 PM

This is funny considering your signature.

But you've always been a bit of a weirdo loose cannon. I think any views I've ever seen you post make you the smallest minority on any issue ever.

I would take the Canada Championship game over a boring friendly against a team playing their youth/reserves. Teams like River Plate mock us by not taking our friendlies with any remote sense of seriousness.

lol, yet we still have'nt won a carlsberg cup (or whatever they are calling it)...

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 01:43 PM

Oldtimer

09-17-2009, 01:44 PM

I don't buy this. Other than Letoux all their USL players are fringe players on their roster. Its pretty much a totally different squad than their 2008 USL squad.

Besides, by year three, with one of the highest payrolls in the league thanks to allocation, we shouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot, we should be dominating this league already....

Not just the squad. You have to look at everything.

should we be doing better? You bet. But let's not have stupid comparisons to Seattle, and especially not Chicago and DC.

Nodoubtguy

09-17-2009, 01:45 PM

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 01:46 PM

Thats what I been saying.....protests, not renewing, emailing, calling will do nothing if theres someone willing to replace you in line.

and people should listen to you.

Roogsy

09-17-2009, 01:46 PM

Thats what I been saying.....protests, not renewing, emailing, calling will do nothing if theres someone willing to replace you in line.

So doing nothing is the only option?

I've never seen such defeatist attitudes.

For the record, I disagree that they "do nothing". In fact, I know for certain that they have an effect.

Nodoubtguy

09-17-2009, 01:48 PM

So doing nothing is the only option?

I've never seen such defeatist attitudes.

Roogsy, we can do whatever we want and if thats the official RPB stance, I'll help and support it.....I just don't see it accomplishing much if anything at all.

there's a difference in being defeatist and realistic

canadian_bhoy

09-17-2009, 01:51 PM

How do you find the common voice when there are so many different opinions. One doesn't care, the other wants to burn the place down at every turn. Even if you find the middle....you don't get the one voice.

MLSE sees us as mindless sheep for a reason. We act like it. We're not united as a single SG, since we're not we're a VERY SMALL percentage of their customer base. 14,000+ people waiting for seasons, you think they give a shit about a couple hundred e mail?

I work for one of the biggest corporations in Canada and the general culture for all large corporations is this "When there is a demand, the current customer base, can suck a dick." Simple as that.

Cambridge_Red

09-17-2009, 01:51 PM

Johnny Carvers!!...

Roogsy

09-17-2009, 01:52 PM

Roogsy, we can do whatever we want and if thats the official RPB stance, I'll help and support it.....I just don't see it accomplishing much if anything at all.

there's a difference in being defeatist and realistic

Opinions about season tickets prices haven't become an "RPB" issue, they are a customer and general supporter issue.

If you are ok with the price increases as being reasonable, that is one thing. I may disagree, but I can't really object to it. But if you feel that the price increases are unjustifiable but your reaction is to shrug your shoulders and say "what can we do?"...I can't understand that. I guess it comes down to how you live your life. Some people choose to fight for what they want or what they think is right and others simply accept things as they are and coast. Who is to say which one is right? Suffice to say though, if you want something, there is better probability of getting it by speaking up than by staying in the shadows.

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 01:57 PM

An SG is suppose to GIVE you your opinion, democratically, but give it to you none the less. It's a GROUP all individualism goes out the door.

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 01:57 PM

MLSE sees us as mindless sheep for a reason. We act like it. We're not united as a single SG, since we're not we're a VERY SMALL percentage of their customer base. 14,000+ people waiting for seasons, you think they give a shit about a couple hundred e mail?

I work for one of the biggest corporations in Canada and the general culture for all large corporations is this "When there is a demand, the current customer base, can suck a dick." Simple as that.

IMO that 14,000+ number is quite misleading... how many of these 14,000+ would actually drop down there hard earned money? personally I think well less then half.. it doesnt cost a dime to add yourself to the list and it's just a convenient why for MSLE to justify the price increase (and one less game). Yet until people like me and other STH do not renew their tickets, there is not much we can do about the price increases.

I for one (and let me state that I really enjoy the game day experience) am getting closer and closer to not renewing... Will my tickets be bought by someone else? probably.. if 7,000 people at once decided not to renew, will all those tickets be bought by new subscribers? I highly doubt it. And ONLY then will ticket prices freeze (at least for a year).

Nodoubtguy

09-17-2009, 02:02 PM

IMO that 14,000+ number is quite misleading... how many of these 14,000+ would actually drop down there hard earned money? personally I think well less then half.. it doesnt cost a dime to add yourself to the list and it's just a convenient why for MSLE to justify the price increase (and one less game). Yet until people like me and other STH do not renew their tickets, there is not much we can do about the price increases.

I for one (and let me state that I really enjoy the game day experience) am getting closer and closer to not renewing... Will my tickets be bought by someone else? probably.. if 7,000 people at once decided not to renew, will all those tickets be bought by new subscribers? I highly doubt it. And ONLY then will ticket prices freeze (at least for a year).

lol.....when do you think the non-renewals will be that high???

Roogsy

09-17-2009, 02:03 PM

An SG is suppose to GIVE you your opinion, democratically, but give it to you none the less. It's a GROUP all individualism goes out the door.

There are no rules when it comes to groups. Some groups demand uniformity, others are more free with member's right to voice their own opinion. I like this group the way it is. We don't all have to agree so long as we all are unified in purpose when it comes to supporting TFC. I do have a problem with these assumptions you and others have made about how a group behaves. Where are these rules? I gotta find myself that rulebook to find out what we are doing wrong.

Suffice to say, this group has decided how it is going to manage the membership. It is a fairly free and open group. Nobody decides for you what to think, say or do. Most people appreciate that I would think. And I would find it hard to believe that someone like you Kdot would respond well to the group telling you what to do or say. In fact, your participation on this very board is evidence of that, having been given lots of leeway to have your own thoughts and opinions and to post them.

I don't think most people are looking for a group that demands from them that which you claim is how a group should be run. We have had success because of the exact opposite reasons.

canadian_bhoy

09-17-2009, 02:04 PM

An SG is suppose to GIVE you your opinion, democratically, but give it to you none the less. It's a GROUP all individualism goes out the door.

fair enough - but what about multiple groups? They all want different things. Even if we did get together as one, I'm sure there would be a splinter from that. There is no way to have just one group and satisfy everyone.

The only thing we can do is focus on how RPB deals with it and how they take up these types of issues with the club. Should the group be doing more about this...This is something I think is worth discussing.

Nodoubtguy

09-17-2009, 02:04 PM

Opinions about season tickets prices haven't become an "RPB" issue, they are a customer and general supporter issue.

If you are ok with the price increases as being reasonable, that is one thing. I may disagree, but I can't really object to it. But if you feel that the price increases are unjustifiable but your reaction is to shrug your shoulders and say "what can we do?"...I can't understand that. I guess it comes down to how you live your life. Some people choose to fight for what they want or what they think is right and others simply accept things as they are and coast. Who is to say which one is right? Suffice to say though, if you want something, there is better probability of getting it by speaking up than by staying in the shadows.

Unjustifiable?? maybe.....but do you think MLSE would say "oh, for our increase....lets go $5, $10 at most"??? IT'S MLSE!!!!, there will be an increase every year.....you can bet on it, and if you can't accept that, I suggest you get out now and save your self this years ticket price.

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 02:04 PM

MrHawk

09-17-2009, 02:06 PM

Unjustifiable?? maybe.....but do you think MLSE would say "oh, for our increase....lets go $5, $10 at most"??? IT'S MLSE!!!!, there will be an increase every year.....you can bet on it, and if you can't accept that, I suggest you get out now and save your self this years ticket price.

MLSE is a business first...........their opinions on fans are as follows:

You pay us money, we're good.
You don't pay us money, others will instead.

RPB, U-Sector, NEE, all leave their packages...........MLSE barely feels the hit. They will be scooped up almost immediately.

menefreghista

09-17-2009, 02:06 PM

It's not like they're doubling the price.

Actually, at the current pace, the price for the south end should be doubled by year 5....

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 02:06 PM

Opinions about season tickets prices haven't become an "RPB" issue, they are a customer and general supporter issue.

If you are ok with the price increases as being reasonable, that is one thing. I may disagree, but I can't really object to it. But if you feel that the price increases are unjustifiable but your reaction is to shrug your shoulders and say "what can we do?"...I can't understand that. I guess it comes down to how you live your life. Some people choose to fight for what they want or what they think is right and others simply accept things as they are and coast. Who is to say which one is right? Suffice to say though, if you want something, there is better probability of getting it by speaking up than by staying in the shadows.

totally agree... But the only way it will ever change is if there was a mass exodus by STH and I dont know if that will ever happen. I for one am sitting on the fence if I would be willing to give up my tickets just to prove a point.. I was hoping that MSLE would have been smarter and not raised the prices this year after their image was tarnished due to the RM cash grab and other issues. Granted the price increase is not a lot, but when you factor in the one less game (which most of us would love to go to), it is a significant increase.

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 02:08 PM

lol.....when do you think the non-renewals will be that high???

your right, I highly doubt it will ever be that high.. but the jays probably thought the same back in the 90's, now look at what they are getting for games (including games WITH doc pitching)

Nodoubtguy

09-17-2009, 02:08 PM

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 02:09 PM

There are no rules when it comes to groups. Some groups demand uniformity, others are more free with member's right to voice their own opinion. I like this group the way it is. We don't all have to agree so long as we all are unified in purpose when it comes to supporting TFC. I do have a problem with these assumptions you and others have made about how a group behaves. Where are these rules? I gotta find myself that rulebook to find out what we are doing wrong.

Suffice to say, this group has decided how it is going to manage the membership. It is a fairly free and open group. Nobody decides for you what to think, say or do. Most people appreciate that I would think. And I would find it hard to believe that someone like you Kdot would respond well to the group telling you what to do or say. In fact, your participation on this very board is evidence of that, having been given lots of leeway to have your own thoughts and opinions and to post them.

I don't think most people are looking for a group that demands from them that which you claim is how a group should be run. We have had success because of the exact opposite reasons.

Roogsy our interacitons are limited to the net. I am a VERY group oriented person, but what we have here as well as all other SGs is a social club, not a proper supporters group. And thats fine. I'm not telling you to change what you're doing. I'm just saying it's fucking insane to expect the FO to look at the SGs as some sort of power houses when they are clearly not that.

Roogsy

09-17-2009, 02:09 PM

Good luck getting 7000 people to not renew dude to a ticket price increase. It's not like they're doubling the price. These guys work as a unit to stick it up our ass's. the difference between us and them is we do NOT work as a unit as supporters.

So post, write emails wave flags, until we show a united front, all this means nothing

There is no unity until people are convinced. You seem to think unity comes from nothing. That is where these threads and forums have their place. Dialogue and conversations where people's opinions are heard are vital in order to get people on board with taking action. To mock "posting" as somehow ineffective is to mock the process that creates unity. If RPB have shown anything it's that by moderate and reasonable efforts of diplomacy, action and communication, the front office will listen and therefore the concerns of the members are heard.

Not everything is done by 5000 marching on city hall.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB

09-17-2009, 02:10 PM

Little off topic...but i never understood Premium Priced Games? For example 2 NYRB games were listed as Premium this season....is it just a way to force a little extra $$ out of supporters without season seats??

2010 Premium so called games will be $40...and the regular game $25......i just dont get why the huge differnce....
__________________

Whoop

09-17-2009, 02:11 PM

An SG is suppose to GIVE you your opinion, democratically, but give it to you none the less. It's a GROUP all individualism goes out the door.

100%

Roogsy

09-17-2009, 02:12 PM

totally agree... But the only way it will ever change is if there was a mass exodus by STH and I dont know if that will ever happen. I for one am sitting on the fence if I would be willing to give up my tickets just to prove a point.. I was hoping that MSLE would have been smarter and not raised the prices this year after their image was tarnished due to the RM cash grab and other issues. Granted the price increase is not a lot, but when you factor in the one less game (which most of us would love to go to), it is a significant increase.

Yes and no. I don't think prices will stop going up if there is a mass exodus. I think what it will take is a gradual decrease each year until the administrators of the team eventually realize "oh oh". Unfortunately it's like boiling a frog. When it's gradual, you don't know you're in hot water until it's too late. With sports it's the same. Do you think the Jays realized they were risking having 11,000 people at a game ahead of time or did it sneak up to them? Like I said, sports organizations front offices are not very smart when it comes to looking down the road. The only thing they are looking at is this year's income statement and balance sheet.

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 02:16 PM

do you think they care about us, you, me?? they filled BMO for that game, they made the money.......that's what matters to them in the end.

your right.. but at some point the well will run dry.. I know the well hasnt run dry for the leafs and that will never run dry because it's hockey.. but for football, i can see it happening.. There are only so many passioned fans of this sport, hell i have countless friend who love the nfl and hockey and cant stand football (sorry i refuse to be americanized and call it sock-her)..

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 02:18 PM

There is no unity until people are convinced. You seem to think unity comes from nothing. That is where these threads and forums have their place. Dialogue and conversations where people's opinions are heard are vital in order to get people on board with taking action. To mock "posting" as somehow ineffective is to mock the process that creates unity. If RPB have shown anything it's that by moderate and reasonable efforts of diplomacy, action and communication, the front office will listen and therefore the concerns of the members are heard.

Not everything is done by 5000 marching on city hall.

oooookay.

A have to choose "Strongly Disagree" on that statement.

so let me ask you something. How many years of "Forum Discusisons" will it take before a general consencous is met and everyone bands together and unifys?

My guess is never, but you seem to be more optimistic than me so what do you think? 25 years or so?

Nodoubtguy

09-17-2009, 02:19 PM

your right.. but at some point the well will run dry.. I know the well hasnt run dry for the leafs and that will never run dry because it's hockey.. but for football, i can see it happening.. There are only so many passioned fans of this sport, hell i have countless friend who love the nfl and hockey and cant stand football (sorry i refuse to be americanized and call it sock-her)..

for sure, but the future is of no concern to sports teams (see Roogsy's point about the Jays). The well has a few more years left of sellouts, and maybe 2012 or 2013 will be different.

Cambridge_Red

09-17-2009, 02:21 PM

.......all Red Army!

Belfast_Boy

09-17-2009, 02:22 PM

There are no rules when it comes to groups. Some groups demand uniformity, others are more free with member's right to voice their own opinion. I like this group the way it is. We don't all have to agree so long as we all are unified in purpose when it comes to supporting TFC. I do have a problem with these assumptions you and others have made about how a group behaves. Where are these rules? I gotta find myself that rulebook to find out what we are doing wrong.

Suffice to say, this group has decided how it is going to manage the membership. It is a fairly free and open group. Nobody decides for you what to think, say or do. Most people appreciate that I would think. And I would find it hard to believe that someone like you Kdot would respond well to the group telling you what to do or say. In fact, your participation on this very board is evidence of that, having been given lots of leeway to have your own thoughts and opinions and to post them.

I don't think most people are looking for a group that demands from them that which you claim is how a group should be run. We have had success because of the exact opposite reasons.

fucking right! I like what you have to say Roogsy!

this is a good group because it's not tight assed and militant. it's about supporting TFC. there's some nutcases here that talk shite and have different opinions, myself included sometimes, and are accepted.

As far as MLSE is concerned we need only look at the flagship and I mean The Leafs. do they care about the fans and the product they put on the ice?

BC101

09-17-2009, 02:24 PM

.......all Red Army!
JOHNNY CARVERS!

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 02:24 PM

Yes and no. I don't think prices will stop going up if there is a mass exodus. I think what it will take is a gradual decrease each year until the administrators of the team eventually realize "oh oh". Unfortunately it's like boiling a frog. When it's gradual, you don't know you're in hot water until it's too late. With sports it's the same. Do you think the Jays realized they were risking having 11,000 people at a game ahead of time or did it sneak up to them? Like I said, sports organizations front offices are not very smart when it comes to looking down the road. The only thing they are looking at is this year's income statement and balance sheet.

your analogy is spot on, and i mentioned the jays in my previos post, it's exactly what I was trying to point out.. .. but 7000 STH should get there attention, and your right it may not stop price increases but it may slow them down. or at the very least it should give u more bang for your buck, for example 15 mls games, 2 canadian championship games, and group stage tickets for concacaf, plus meaningless friendly (lol).. getting extra one year instead of less would be OOOHHHH so nice.. but i know that will not happen anytime soon..

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 02:25 PM

fucking right! I like what you have to say Roogsy!

this is a good group because it's not tight assed and militant. it's about supporting TFC. there's some nutcases here that talk shite and have different opinions, myself included sometimes, and are accepted.

As far as MLSE is concerned we need only look at the flagship and I mean The Leafs. do they care about the fans and the product they put on the ice?

EXACTLY it's all about supoprting TFC. So support TFC, pay the ticket increase pricing and don't complain.

Right?

Shaughno

09-17-2009, 02:26 PM

EXACTLY it's all about supoprting TFC. So support TFC, pay the ticket increase pricing and don't complain.

Right?

Exactly right. Especially don't complain when your $200 south end tickets are more than double the price in a few more years.

mighty_torontofc_2008

09-17-2009, 02:27 PM

LOL how can you even compare these?

They are games that are part of a tournament that we LOST last year and almost didn't win this year.

Caring a bit more about the competition may not be a bad idea.

its hard to care for a tournament when they schedule games you HAVE to leave early on to catch transport out of TO..and the fact its a 3 team tournament( not the fault of anyones) and its hard to take serious. Friendlies are just that, but the quality of teams you get are far better
then a MLS/USL opponent anyday. If TFC could grab the 8th playoff spot this year we would get an Superliga appearence which we be a bonus and get to play MLS/Mexican opponents as oppose to playing USl teams like Montreal and vancouver.The Canadian Championship may become more meaningful as time goes on if football expands to Ottawa,calagary, edmonton,

Whoop

09-17-2009, 02:27 PM

Kdot for RPB prez.

Oldtimer

09-17-2009, 02:28 PM

I'll pay for now.

If it get's high enough, I'll have to put other priorities first and watch my Reds on TV.

BC101

09-17-2009, 02:29 PM

Kdot for RPB prez.
Co signed..

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB

09-17-2009, 02:30 PM

Exactly right. Especially don't complain when your $200 south end tickets are more than double the price in a few more years.

$200 hell of a deal(Inside connection...shags!! ;).....there making me pay $323..;)

make that $646 southend! to be exact!....acording to your double in a few years!..:drinking:

Parkdale

09-17-2009, 02:31 PM

oh great? who let them out of RCT?

nobodybeatsthewiz

09-17-2009, 02:32 PM

kdot for prez of partying down

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 02:33 PM

for sure, but the future is of no concern to sports teams (see Roogsy's point about the Jays). The well has a few more years left of sellouts, and maybe 2012 or 2013 will be different.

and thats the sad thing for the people who truely love the game and support it now, even though most of us realize it's a considerably inferior product.

Chevy

09-17-2009, 02:33 PM

There simply is no justification for not holding prices the same despite the grass and DP.

Columbus has grass and a DP and they have actually won something. And yet their tickets are less. Same thing with Chicago. NY is a special case so we can't really use them for comparison.

If TFC really wanted to win fans support, they would have held prices firm AT LEAST one of the last 3 years.

I can't imagine what they are going to do if this team actually starts winning something. No lube at all baby...it's going up dry!

Well, nobody really cares about the Crew - if they gave away freebies I still don't think they would fill the place. If you have ever looked at their site the offers are ridiculous (i.e. buy four tickets for forty bucks and get four mini-balls, four-scarves, sing the national anthem and get lifetime front-row seats to all Kenny Chesney concerts and a new gun rack. Or something similar to that).

Chicago is a little better, but there just isn't the demand there compared to Toronto, and the stadium is located in the 'burbs, away from the population base.

As for TFC pricing, it's kind of a catch 22 - price low and get fans' support, then when you get the support, raise the prices.

Flame away, but in my opinion the season ticket prices are way lower than they could be - keep in mind that nobody thought the club would be a (attendance) success, so the initial prices reflected lower expected demand for tickets.

Regardless, I would say look for solid (+15%) increases each year for at least the next five years until the supply and demand equation balances out.

Roogsy

09-17-2009, 02:34 PM

Consensus is never necessary. There is discussion and then a decision is made on an executive level according to that discussion. That's why we have an executive. They don't look for consensus from members, just a general direction. Then they run with the ball and get things done. You'd be surprised at how much they've accomplished and all that without ever having any consensus on these crazy boards!

Petor

09-17-2009, 02:34 PM

your right.. but at some point the well will run dry.. I know the well hasnt run dry for the leafs and that will never run dry because it's hockey.. but for football, i can see it happening.. There are only so many passioned fans of this sport, hell i have countless friend who love the nfl and hockey and cant stand football (sorry i refuse to be americanized and call it sock-her)..

Sorry to inform you but word soccer comes from the UK not USA.
Origin:
1890–95; (As)soc(iation football) + er

I know my reply is a bit off topic but I'm tired of people giving Americans credit for this word.

MrHawk

09-17-2009, 02:35 PM

oh great? who let them out of RCT?

We're allowed so many threads per day.

After which, we are forced back to our hole.

wzhxvy

09-17-2009, 02:36 PM

I would vote for Kdot

Shaughno

09-17-2009, 02:36 PM

$200 hell of a deal(Inside connection...shags!! ;).....there making me pay $323..;)

make that $646 southend! to be exact!....acording to your double in a few years!..:drinking:

Year 1 - $200
Year 5 - $420+

More than double, in less than two years from now. ;)

That's gouging beyond fucking gouging. Also the reason why Old Trafford has little to no atmosphere compared to the pre-Glazer days. They kept upping the price and turned all the dedicated fans away. Now the majority of people there are prawnies who can still afford the tickets. Expect that at BMO in under 10 years, mark my words.

trane

09-17-2009, 02:39 PM

oh great? who let them out of RCT?

Parky, you hurt my feelings.

Belfast_Boy

09-17-2009, 02:39 PM

EXACTLY it's all about supoprting TFC. So support TFC, pay the ticket increase pricing and don't complain.

Right?

the price right now doesn't seem outrageous to me. fair increases are to be expected. it's how the world works. but I don't need to tell you that. I'd be willing to pay up to about $450 right now.

but that's from my perspective. I'm not a seasons ticket holder yet. is it fair to double the cost in a few years? I don't think so. trying to see it from your perspective I'd be worried and pissed about it. if the increases level off to inflation then it's all good.

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 02:40 PM

Year 1 - $200
Year 5 - $420+

More than double, in less than two years from now. ;)

That's gouging beyond fucking gouging. Also the reason why Old Trafford has little to no atmosphere compared to the pre-Glazer days. They kept upping the price and turned all the dedicated fans away. Now the majority of people there are prawnies who can still afford the tickets. Expect that at BMO in under 10 years, mark my words.

don't worry. With enough forum discussions and letters to "Executives" things will get done you'll see.

Gray skies are gonna clear up,
Put on a happy face;
Brush off the clouds and cheer up,
Put on a happy face.

Shaughno

09-17-2009, 02:41 PM

the price right now doesn't seem outrageous to me. fair increases are to be expected. it's how the world works. but I don't need to tell you that. I'd be willing to pay up to about $450 right now.

but that's from my perspective. I'm not a seasons ticket holder yet. is it fair to double the cost in a few years? I don't think so. trying to see it from your perspective I'd be worried and pissed about it. if the increases level off to inflation then it's all good.

What happens if the team ever wins anything??? Or wins things on a semi-consistant basis? Does that mean we can expect greater than 15-22% increases?

It's BEYOND worrying that they are upping the prices, so much, so early, with no reason to do so. It basically gives them free reign to raise as much as they want in the future because well, it's not as bad since there's actually a reason for it.

Roogsy

09-17-2009, 02:42 PM

Year 1 - $200
Year 5 - $420+

More than double, in less than two years from now. ;)

Jay...if we wait long enough, we can get discounted $100 tickets in the south stands again like we did the first year because they were afraid of not selling out. :hurray:

And that's the crux of the matter isn't it? Fear. Right now they have no fear of financial losses hence they will operate like they are impervious to consumer disatisfaction. But that's the whole "immediate gratification" dilemma. They satisfy their financial needs now only to pay the piper down the road with disgruntled fans staying away, then they gotta start from scratch like they did in year 1 with marketing and drives to get season ticket renewals up. I don't think the Jays ever thought they would get to a place where they are now after winning TWO World Series. And in speaking with the Argos, they have invested HUGE amounts of money and effort into getting the seasons ticket numbers up. It's a silly cycle that is completely unecessary if you take care of business correcly from the start.

I think I am done on this matter. Sorry for my multiple posts. Always so much to say. But you guys get my position.

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 02:42 PM

the price right now doesn't seem outrageous to me. fair increases are to be expected. it's how the world works. but I don't need to tell you that. I'd be willing to pay up to about $450 right now.

but that's from my perspective. I'm not a seasons ticket holder yet. is it fair to double the cost in a few years? I don't think so. trying to see it from your perspective I'd be worried and pissed about it. if the increases level off to inflation then it's all good.

Double in 5 years dude. Thats a little fucked up. It has nothing to do with economic inflation and everything to do with riding this bitch till she bleeds.

trane

09-17-2009, 02:43 PM

To be honest I am not that personlay upset about increases in themselves. But has the product improvement matched the increased prices? So far the answer to everyone but the five year plan believers must be no.

Shaughno

09-17-2009, 02:43 PM

I hear you Roogs. I'm done as well, I've said my point multiple times. Some people will never get it.

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 02:45 PM

Yeah I quit too. I'm beating a dead horse. I'll feel better when I'm at home in Marakana next year.

I'll take some video for you guys. Show you how a real SG opperates.
**goes back to RCT with the rest of the 1%ers

trane

09-17-2009, 02:46 PM

Jay...if we wait long enough, we can get discounted $100 tickets in the south stands again like we did the first year because they were afraid of not selling out. :hurray:

And that's the crux of the matter isn't it? Fear. Right now they have no fear of financial losses hence they will operate like they are impervious to consumer disatisfaction. But that's the whole "immediate gratification" dilemma. They satisfy their financial needs now only to pay the piper down the road with disgruntled fans staying away, then they gotta start from scratch like they did in year 1 with marketing and drives to get season ticket renewals up. I don't think the Jays ever thought they would get to a place where they are now after winning TWO World Series. And in speaking with the Argos, they have invested HUGE amounts of money and effort into getting the seasons ticket numbers up. It's a silly cycle that is completely unecessary if you take care of business correcly from the start.

I think I am done on this matter. Sorry for my multiple posts. Always so much to say. But you guys get my position.

Agreed. I will say this that while people will not like to here it TFC , in this regard, is following closer to the Leafs model, then the Raptors. The only difference is that they do show some sensitivity, by signing players that would satisfy the supporters, like De Ro ( mighty excluded) and JDG.

Phil

09-17-2009, 02:47 PM

I hear you Roogs. I'm done as well, I've said my point multiple times. Some people will never get it.

I think a lot of people do.

At this point its up to them to voice their concerns with their ticket reps.

Its crap to see the amount the tickets have gone up with no tangable improvement on the field.

Shaughno

09-17-2009, 02:48 PM

Last word, it may be following the Leafs model, but TFC will follow the way of the Blue Jays in terms of dwindelling support if the increases keep up at this rate.

Mark my words.

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 02:49 PM

Sorry to inform you but word soccer comes from the UK not USA.
Origin:
1890–95; (As)soc(iation football) + er

I know my reply is a bit off topic but I'm tired of people giving Americans credit for this word.

Noted.. but I never stated that the word originated in the US. I simply stated ‘americanized’, meaning that 90% of the world refers to the beautiful game as football. You can’t argue the fact that if you mention the word football in the US; you will quickly realize that you are in a conversation discussing Payton Manning or Tom Brady..

Anyways, off topic and the last post from me on this topic in this thread..

Belfast_Boy

09-17-2009, 02:51 PM

What happens if the team ever wins anything??? Or wins things on a semi-consistant basis? Does that mean we can expect greater than 15-22% increases?

It's BEYOND worrying that they are upping the prices, so much, so early, with no reason to do so. It basically gives them free reign to raise as much as they want in the future because well, it's not as bad since there's actually a reason for it.

then none of us will be able to afford or get seats. the amount of people on the band wagon now is due to the atmosphere that we, but mostly you guys, create. if they start winning then we're all priced out of the market.

Double in 5 years dude. Thats a little fucked up. It has nothing to do with economic inflation and everything to do with riding this bitch till she bleeds.

So what's the plan Stan? let her bleed or speak up? and I don't mean whinning here.

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 02:55 PM

its hard to care for a tournament when they schedule games you HAVE to leave early on to catch transport out of TO..and the fact its a 3 team tournament( not the fault of anyones) and its hard to take serious. Friendlies are just that, but the quality of teams you get are far better
then a MLS/USL opponent anyday. If TFC could grab the 8th playoff spot this year we would get an Superliga appearence which we be a bonus and get to play MLS/Mexican opponents as oppose to playing USl teams like Montreal and vancouver.The Canadian Championship may become more meaningful as time goes on if football expands to Ottawa,calagary, edmonton,

??? Did'nt I read a thread that you posted yesterday stating that you would rather see a 3-4 team TFC tournament during the world cup, instead of the MLS shutdown? wouldnt that be pretty well the same as the CC, yet with less significance???

i mean who would watch the world cup if a blockbuster tournament like this was on in TO?? lol

Chevy

09-17-2009, 02:57 PM

SteeltownBhoy

09-17-2009, 02:59 PM

fair enough - but what about multiple groups? They all want different things. Even if we did get together as one, I'm sure there would be a splinter from that. There is no way to have just one group and satisfy everyone.

The only thing we can do is focus on how RPB deals with it and how they take up these types of issues with the club. Should the group be doing more about this...This is something I think is worth discussing.

I have to agree with Canadian_bhoy. I think it is a RPB for the reason that has been expressed on this board several times. Increased prices on a regular basis will eventually squeeze out the hard cord supporter. This will lead to a corperate mentally that MLSE is all to fimiliar with and encourages. So what is wrong with RPB taking this position and letting ML$E know they are concerned about where this could lead??

It will affect the atmosphere eventually, that has to be a concern for all
supporter's groups.

trane

09-17-2009, 03:01 PM

Last word, it may be following the Leafs model, but TFC will follow the way of the Blue Jays in terms of dwindelling support if the increases keep up at this rate.

Mark my words.

Agreed.

Darlofletch

09-17-2009, 03:02 PM

??? Did'nt I read a thread that you posted yesterday stating that you would rather see a 3-4 team TFC tournament during the world cup, instead of the MLS shutdown? wouldnt that be pretty well the same as the CC, yet with less significance???

i mean who would watch the world cup if a blockbuster tournament like this was on in TO?? lol

You can't attend the world cup and get back to brantford at a reasonable hour, so fuck it! worthless!

AL-MO

09-17-2009, 03:02 PM

Parkdale

09-17-2009, 03:03 PM

We're allowed so many threads per day.

After which, we are forced back to our hole.

http://thecia.com.au/reviews/d/images/district-9-poster-0.jpg

JonO

09-17-2009, 03:05 PM

Year 1 - $200
Year 5 - $420+

More than double, in less than two years from now. ;)

Can we at least focus on this year's increase? No point in bitching about an increase that hasn't happened yet.

menefreghista

09-17-2009, 03:05 PM

You can't attend the world cup and get back to brantford at a reasonable hour, so fuck it! worthless!

I think the last train from Johannesburg to Brantford leaves before the match is over. :D

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 03:07 PM

Last word, it may be following the Leafs model, but TFC will follow the way of the Blue Jays in terms of dwindelling support if the increases keep up at this rate.

Mark my words.

TOTALLY AGREE!!

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 03:10 PM

I'll be there for a Month Al..I plan on going to as many games as possible!!

DaBandit

09-17-2009, 03:12 PM

You can't attend the world cup and get back to brantford at a reasonable hour, so fuck it! worthless!

funny... :)

I think the last train from Johannesburg to Brantford leaves before the match is over. :D

even funnier... :D

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 03:13 PM

the plan..Mark67...is nothing. Write a letter if you feel strongly about it.

trane

09-17-2009, 03:14 PM

Can we at least focus on this year's increase? No point in bitching about an increase that hasn't happened yet.

NO VOICE OF REASON PLEASE. WE ARE ON A ROLL.

SteeltownBhoy

09-17-2009, 03:15 PM

20 PAGES, WOW.

Are there any more points that have to be raised? It's been a good discussion wirth varied opinions, I'm done.

On to LA. Landycakes or Goldenballs need to be carried off the pitch. Maybe both at the same time!!!!!!!

onemanbarmyarmy

09-17-2009, 03:17 PM

You know, it's a real shame that this thread has become about RPB membership when it was originally about seasons tickets. The truth is you can hold whatever view of RPBs you like, it won't get you banned. The only thing that will get you infracted is if you keep taking threads off topic.

As for "danger" in 112, I am not sure what kind of power you think we wield, but there was plenty done to address the situation in question. Excuse us for taking a measured, diplomatic route instead of calling for every RPB in 112 to bumrush the guy in question.

Your facetiousness is "lame". I would like to remind you that you told me to my face that one thing would happen then came on here to spend your morning break typing a reply that speaks to the contrary. Other "execs" (please?) told me the same thing yet what they said is not the truth. It is not what power I thought you wielded it is what power you led me to believe you had. Your defensiveness (in the form of a Lolapalooza of a rant) speaks volumes to my exact point. The words of the "execs" is not always the same as the actions. This to me means one of three things: 1) They don't care 2) They can't do anything #) They are afraid to do anything.

As far as I know there have not been any more incidents in 112

The things you don't know could fill a warehouse. As far as I know things haven't changed much.

which I think proves that reaching out and trying to work things out diplomatically did work. We thought that was what you wanted, apparently it wasn't. To this day, I have no idea what exactly you wanted from us but you are acting like nothing was done when it is in fact quite the opposite. We made a real effort to work things out. So you can add peacemakers to that list of things we are great at.

Cash's choice of words may have been poor but his sentiments are actually correct. The group walks a fine line of just being a group of like-minded people and something more official. We don't want to impose ourselves as any sort of authority, and we definitely don't want to be seen as meddlers.

This is a statement that is contrary to the previous notion that RPB wanted to police themselves as to not incur the threat of more scrutiny by security which was the only reason we didn't charge the person with assault as per securities wishes. Regardless that incedent is dead it is the fact that in one conversation the "executive" says one thing then online they say another.

In the future, if something happens to you in any section, just go to security. Asking other supporters who have no more real power than you do to do something and then complaining when they haven't miraculously turned water into wine means we will never live up to your standards and quite frankly we don't want that responsibility.

Please quit with the Macho Posturing and please refrain from continually implying that I ran to you for any kind of protection. That would be like Bill Gates cheating off a retard in a math exam.

As for the sack the CSA shirts...that was not an RPB initiative. In fact I don't think any RPB had even the slightest bit of connection to that effort other than to buy some ourselves. I know I have one. But let's get the history of events correct shall we?

I think I beat you to correcting that one but whatever you need to do to fill your day.

Regardless...I thought they were great shirts. I don't see what the problem is there and I am not sure what else you think we as a supporters group are supposed to do but since you haven't really helped do whatever you think supporters are supposed to do, I am not going to concern myself with it too much.

This is just an uncalled for attack on me. I have been here as long as anyone. I have been on road trips. Bought gear to support causes. Stood up for people when others wouldn't. Attended the first few membership meetings. Drove a van full of guys to D.C. when only 30 people wanted to do a road trip. Don't act up on the internet Chris. Don't pretend you are more than just a DungeonMaster just now the dice isn't 12 sided and has black and white patches on it.

Now let's get back to talking about SEASON'S TICKETS if there is anything else to be said.

The price increase blows!

Parkdale

09-17-2009, 03:19 PM

The price increase blows!

agreed!

Belfast_Boy

09-17-2009, 03:21 PM

the plan..Mark67...is nothing. Write a letter if you feel strongly about it.

that was anit-climactic!
no loud protest of red?

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 03:24 PM

that was anit-climactic!
no loud protest of red?

Sorry scratch that.

Me and Barmy are gonna sit infront of BMO and give Cumings the Doomsday Device next home game.

SteeltownBhoy

09-17-2009, 03:24 PM

There is some real personal shit going down on this board right now. Mods if you please.

KdotOdot

09-17-2009, 03:26 PM

There is some real personal shit going down on this board right now. Mods if you please.

thats right shut everyone up and sweep it under the rug.

Go on.

mighty_torontofc_2008

09-17-2009, 03:30 PM

I think a lot of people do.

At this point its up to them to voice their concerns with their ticket reps.

Its crap to see the amount the tickets have gone up with no tangable improvement on the field.

No tangable improvemet on the field? lets see we are 4th in the East (currently) as opposed to last our first two seasons...i would call that
a improvement...we had the team wins its first trophy this season,
another improvement..the club brought in players at the supporers
request, DeRo, Serioux and now JDG so thats an improvemnt, on the field
direct any anger to those players mentioned and the rrest of the team
as they are the ones letting the fans down play they less then 100%
comittment to the fans and the club itself. oh yes and it looks like the long awaited Grass is coming!! the only thing that does piss me off on the tickets is the $12 ticketmaster gets for dick all! now thats what the fans should be mad at.

Belfast_Boy

09-17-2009, 03:32 PM

Sorry scratch that.

Me and Barmy are gonna sit infront of BMO and give Cumings the Doomsday Device next home game.

shit! and we were going to get grass.....

this is concerning, MLSE have the potential to fuck this up. they can kill football in Toronto again!

SteeltownBhoy

09-17-2009, 03:32 PM

Please quit with the Macho Posturing and please refrain from continually implying that I ran to you for any kind of protection. That would be like Bill Gates cheating off a retard in a math exam.

Fucking post of the day!!!!!!

onemanbarmyarmy

09-17-2009, 03:33 PM

I just don't need any immasculated dogs taking out their short comings on me. Go and lick the wound where your balls used to be.

not as nice coming back is it Chris? Close the thread.
Don't hide behind the internet kids!

Belfast_Boy

09-17-2009, 03:34 PM

There is some real personal shit going down on this board right now. Mods if you please.

it's not that bad, nobody is virtually bleeding...

onemanbarmyarmy

09-17-2009, 03:36 PM

Production on the field, grass, DP's (either kind) are still no justification for Jacking prices. It is just the want of money-grubbing-scum. That is it. Do what you can but be assured they are doing more and they are pros.

SteeltownBhoy

09-17-2009, 03:36 PM

Barmy

Is that Mouth of the South??? (avatar)

Belfast_Boy

09-17-2009, 03:38 PM

I don't want to completely discount the importance of the BMO atmosphere, but I think its been overrated in terms of people not showing up for games if the south end is quiet/empty.

Keep in mind that over 10,000 season tickets were sold before the first game was even played. The draw is football first, atmosphere second.

what keeps interest up is the atmosphere. look at those shitty "This is our House" BMO commercials. It's all actors dressed up how they think fans look. I don't think they show a player or even a ball.

Chevy

09-17-2009, 03:38 PM

FIGHT!!
http://www.liverpool.com/assets/_files/images/jun_07/lb_liv__1182513903_catfight_new_large.jpg

trane

09-17-2009, 03:41 PM

Chevy

09-17-2009, 03:41 PM

what keeps interest up is the atmosphere. look at those shitty "This is our House" BMO commercials. It's all actors dressed up how they think fans look. I don't think they show a player or even a ball.

The atmosphere is important, I'm just saying that its not the main reason people go to BMO. To assume that people fork over a thousand bucks a year just to see people stand and chant is ridiculous.

PS - Poz and Brennan were also featured in one of those commercials.

Belfast_Boy

09-17-2009, 03:49 PM

The atmosphere is important, I'm just saying that its not the main reason people go to BMO. To assume that people fork over a thousand bucks a year just to see people stand and chant is ridiculous.

PS - Poz and Brennan were also featured in one of those commercials.

the last game I went to I was sitting next to people that asked me who #14 was. and they were season's ticket holders. think that jaded me a bit.

trane

09-17-2009, 04:08 PM

onemanbarmyarmy

09-17-2009, 04:45 PM

Barmy

Is that Mouth of the South??? (avatar)

The one and only!

onemanbarmyarmy

09-17-2009, 04:51 PM

What truly needs to happen is that MLS should just let the owners "own" the teams. That way they can get some real revenue and be really creative with their merchandising. They gouge us because it is one of the only revenue streams they have total control of. If individual teams kept 100% of their merch. sales and were allowed to control what merch they made don't you think TFC would be raking in the cash. They could also get rid of the DP rule and just spend whatever money they could. The returns on signing a player of note and selling their jersies and merch are pretty good. I think the single entity thing is going to have to go sooner or later but it will take the owners to force that and by then we will be gouged into strips and ribbons.

Phil

09-17-2009, 04:57 PM

menefreghista

09-17-2009, 05:02 PM

First thing is first. What can we (seasons ticket holders) do right now? Call your ticket rep and make your displeasure heard. Don't just sign on the dotted line and go unheard.

This is an issue that is not going to be fixed by a banner or a quick protest. Its somthing that needs to be co-ordinated over a campaign in order to have any real effect on MLSE.

Well I plan to do the following:

1. Email my rep
2. Pay on the last day, using the payment plan
3. Not spend a single cent at BMO Field on food/beer/merchandise. The only time I might buy new TFC merchandise is when they have a firesale at National Sports.

Hustle

09-17-2009, 05:27 PM

Some ideas:

Can we get a professional thread similiar to one DOMIN8R posted for grass stating our position on this so that those who want to make a difference can do it in a united fashion?

1. Make sure to voice your displeasure to your ticket rep. If you support the team, you need to say something whether you can afford the increase or not. Everyone needs to understand the 20%+ annual price increase trend is a bad precedent and this is a pandoras box issue. Once people stop renewing and apathy sets in, it will be too late to get back what we had.

2. Supporters need to present front office with our official idea of what a fair increase is for 2011 based on how our game day costs (not just tickets) compared to other teams in the MLS. This way, they at least know we have a position on this rather than just whining on the internet.

It should be crystal clear to everyone that the atmosphere we create is an important selling feature to MLSE. Its clear from their marketing they use to get renewals. So do we control the atmosphere or not? The answer is YES we do. MLSE can't buy what we produce. No amount of smoke, cheerleaders, thunder sticks, piped in music or whatever the fuck else they could come up with will ever replace us.

No matter how disjointed or casual some say we are, we have real power to make changes.

onemanbarmyarmy

09-17-2009, 07:23 PM

Also sending e-mails all at the same time will shut down their servers and if anyone knows any email addys for anyone in ML$E or even MLS maybe we could get a bit more notice. Then...do the same thing the next day.(originally Kdot's idea)

OneLoveOneEric

09-17-2009, 07:54 PM

IMO, only a paper letter through the old fashioned mail has significant impact. I have no idea why, but from personal experience, a letter always generates more response than an email.

Cashcleaner

09-17-2009, 11:14 PM

See Barmy believes in the Supporters group as a well you know ...group. He feels that an SG claiming to be a legitimate SG should handle itself as such.

I have to agree with him though. Someone gets assaulted, no one says shit, someone else lights up a cigarette and we have RPBs calling security and telling other supporters that they don't belong in 112.

But like Roogs said, this is about ticket prices. Something we will never have any control over so lets discuss it!

I for one am HAPPY the ticket prices are going up. Being a self made millionaire I have a lot of disposable income and a small increase in price will not deter me from watching 87 minutes of football on any given saturday (or possible Wednesday) Thats right. 87 minutes. I like to leave early to avoid traffic.

I see where you're coming from. Yeah, its a good point, but do we have numbers on our side spanning all of the major groups?

I mean, if we're going to talk about what we should be doing, what sorta options do you think we should be looking at? Some people are offering up ideas of their own so let's start brainstorming.

905shmick

09-17-2009, 11:45 PM

Super

09-17-2009, 11:50 PM

Unless you are sending 50,000 per hour, every hour, every day, you won't be slowing anything down.

Yes, you would have to spam-attack a server to slow it down, or shut it down entirely, and that of course would be criminal - and not likely to provoke a constructive response from MLSE other than a police report.

werewolf

09-17-2009, 11:54 PM

Yes, you would have to spam-attack a server to slow it down, or shut it down entirely, and that of course would be criminal - and not likely to provoke a constructive response from MLSE other than a police report.

you can't do email bombs anymore?!? :(

onemanbarmyarmy

09-18-2009, 05:52 AM

Someone was also talking about not paying till the last day. That sounds like a good tactic but make sure PB doesn't get wind or it will all be for not. Someone should also get in touch with whomever they can in one of the many media outlets and maybe even send out a form letter to them all suggesting ssh's concerns over the price increase. I feel that there has to be an outcry from more than the SG's (Social Groups) as the majority of people in the stadium (16000-17000) are not on these boards (possibly living a real life).

London

09-18-2009, 06:27 AM

let's look at the facts..

MLSE don't care!!!

Why waste all your time arguing here and getting no-where.
if 15,000 people gave up there seats, 15000 would move in and then there is a whole new group of people to rape of there money that were happy to get in for the rates that people are walking away from.

People are arguing with other people over speculation and other bullshit.

KdotOdot

09-18-2009, 06:30 AM

All you do is send a shitload of e mails to the execs personal addresses. Not the general mailbox, just a handful of higher ups. Blow up their blackberries. That's a start. Blow up Robert Peddie's fucking BBerry with constructive hate mail.

torontocelt

09-18-2009, 06:30 AM

http://i26.tinypic.com/2rmlbon.jpg

Man you guys crying over the price hike in the south stand make me laugh, that is still a bargain as are the light grays. I find it unbelievable that their is a 21 page thread on this and people talking about what they should do to make sure the front office understands that $361 is not acceptable for a season ticket yet no one seems to bat an eye lid when the MLSE are charging other fans exactly the same price for the marlies package. I appreciate that many of you are season ticket holders but as a supporters group I think the majority of people who certainly post here don't give a damn about non season ticket holders and that is a travesty as they are 'supporters' also. Your own fellow 'supporters' are getting taken to the cleaners and you guys are throwing all the toys out of the pram for a small price hike in seasons, it is beyond belief?:picard:

menefreghista

09-18-2009, 06:33 AM

All you do is send a shitload of e mails to the execs personal addresses.

LOL. I guess you just happen to have a list of all these addresses?

:D

KdotOdot

09-18-2009, 06:37 AM

Man you guys crying over the price hike in the south stand make me laugh, that is still a bargain as are the light grays. I find it unbelievable that their is a 21 page thread on this and people talking about what they should do to make sure the front office understands that $361 is not acceptable for a season ticket yet no one seems to bat an eye lid when the MLSE are charging other fans exactly the same price for the marlies package. I appreciate that many of you are season ticket holders but as a supporters group I think the majority of people who certainly post here don't give a damn about non season ticket holders and that is a travesty as they are 'supporters' also. Your own fellow 'supporters' are getting taken to the cleaners and you guys are throwing all the toys out of the pram for a small price hike in seasons, it is beyond belief?:picard:
OH SHIT!! Mr. Buffett I didn't know you perused these boards!

This has been happening EVERY YEAR! They're already $100 more expensive than year 1. Thats a 30% increase in 3 years.

Sory if we're not all captains of industry like yourself

KdotOdot

09-18-2009, 06:37 AM

LOL. I guess you just happen to have a list of all these addresses?

:D

who says I dont

Blessington

09-18-2009, 07:34 AM

RedMAN127

09-18-2009, 08:11 AM

If the data is right (Supporters Section > > > Prawn Butties):
2007 Season Ticket: $200>240>500>800>1060>1700
2010 Season Ticket: $323>361>627>931>1273>1634
Total Increase 3yrs: $123>120>127>131>213>-66
Compound Increase: 17.3%>14.6%>7.8%>5.2%>6.3%>-1.3%

Increase should be shown as a percentage of original cost not final:

Southend 123/200 = 61.5%

Light Grey 121/240 = 50%

Prawns -66/1700 = -4%

Though one could argue the price is still reasonable, and I renewed my 5, the rate of increase is mind boggling for any other product I can think of, Seats will double by year 5.

Not sure what to do, but think notifying the FO that these rates of increase are not reasonable or sustainable if the current atmosphere is to be maintained would be reasonable and worthwhile if co-ordinated, in a positive manner.

Roogsy

09-18-2009, 08:16 AM

I disagree. When I bought my yellows for $100, I never assumed that is what it was going to be going forward. I always assumed it was a one-shot deal.

And since you could only get yellows at that price if you picked up greys or reds, that means anyone who JUST picked up yellows never got that deal.

Therefore it is only fair when making this analysis that you use the $200 figure as opposed to the $100 figure. That was an exception and I think we all knew it. If you didn't, it was really putting your head in the sand.

RedMAN127

09-18-2009, 08:35 AM

Roogsy

09-18-2009, 08:42 AM

^ Ah...sorry I misunderstood.

61% increase...I don't care how cheap you think the tickets still are, that increase should make ANYONE raise in eyebrow. Has anyone other team in Toronto had an increase like that in recent memory?

jabbronies

09-18-2009, 08:53 AM

My major issue is with the "premium ticket" vs regular ticket. I think it's BS. NY Red Bulls have never been a premium ticket IMO. Same with Galaxy.

Does anyone know what constitutes a premium ticket?? is it the fact that a team has a DP on thier squad??

KrazyKanadian

09-18-2009, 09:07 AM

Maybe the five-year plan wasn't referring to winning a championship, but to double the STH price? :D

Toronto Gunner

09-18-2009, 09:35 AM

Season seats are still great value for the money and I'm in dark grey territory!

I will renew until I can no longer afford it or until I no longer feel that I am getting my money's worth - it's that simple. If the ticket prices no longer justify the entertainment value, I'll start watching matches in the pub. Until then I'll be at BMO for every home game.
:scarf:

Gobi

09-18-2009, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Blessington http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=724004#post724004)
If the data is right (Supporters Section > > > Prawn Butties):
2007 Season Ticket: $200>240>500>800>1060>1700
2010 Season Ticket: $323>361>627>931>1273>1634
Total Increase 3yrs: $123>120>127>131>213>-66
Compound Increase: 17.3%>14.6%>7.8%>5.2%>6.3%>-1.3%

Increase should be shown as a percentage of original cost not final:

Southend 123/200 = 61.5%

Light Grey 121/240 = 50%

Prawns -66/1700 = -4%
.

Finally, some quality math! :)

My light-greys have increased 50% since year 1. That blows huge.
2006-$240
2007-$300
2008-$325
2009-$360

Now if we apply the same math to total points scored by TFC (assuming 30 games per season)...

2006-0/90 = 0%
2007-25/90 = 28%
2008-35/90 = 38%
2009-45/90 = 50% ----- so we'd have to finish the regular season with 45 points to justify my ticket price increase.
If only real life worked that way.

AL-MO

09-18-2009, 02:01 PM

Just got off the phone with my rep. We had a nice 'discussion'.

Kevvv

09-18-2009, 02:06 PM

who won?

AL-MO

09-18-2009, 02:06 PM

who won?

Draw after 90 minutes.

Parkdale

09-18-2009, 02:08 PM

If the data is right (Supporters Section > > > Prawn Butties):
2007 Season Ticket: $200>240>500>800>1060>1700
2010 Season Ticket: $323>361>627>931>1273>1634
Total Increase 3yrs: $123>120>127>131>213>-66
Compound Increase: 17.3%>14.6%>7.8%>5.2%>6.3%>-1.3%

I can 100% assure you guys..... the prawn seats are going up too.
I'm in 223 which a 'red' seat, and my seats have gone up each year.

I believe the red numbers in your chart are the Club seats.
the club seats have this *Additional Club Fee applies added to the cost,
so I don't think they've actually gone down in cost.

TicTacTabarnack

09-18-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blessington http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=724004#post724004)
If the data is right (Supporters Section > > > Prawn Butties):
2007 Season Ticket: $200>240>500>800>1060>1700
2010 Season Ticket: $323>361>627>931>1273>1634
Total Increase 3yrs: $123>120>127>131>213>-66
Compound Increase: 17.3%>14.6%>7.8%>5.2%>6.3%>-1.3%
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMAN127 http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=724054#post724054)
Increase should be shown as a percentage of original cost not final:

Southend 123/200 = 61.5%

Light Grey 121/240 = 50%

Prawns -66/1700 = -4%
.

Finally, some quality math! :)

My light-greys have increased 50% since year 1. That blows huge.
2006-$240
2007-$300
2008-$325
2009-$360

Now if we apply the same math to total points scored by TFC (assuming 30 games per season)...

2006-0/90 = 0%
2007-25/90 = 28%
2008-35/90 = 38%
2009-45/90 = 50% ----- so we'd have to finish the regular season with 45 points to justify my ticket price increase.
If only real life worked that way.

I have a lower 2007 starting point because I got the "Early Bird" special in Dark Greys:
2007: $720 (Early Bird - Reg. $800)
2008: $855 (20.42% Increase from Early Bird Pricing)
2009: $880 (2.92% Increase from 2008)
2010: $937 (6.47% Increase from 2009)

31.97% Increase over 4 years or 7.99%/year average. Fack! I need a serious raise!

Kevvv

09-18-2009, 02:16 PM

I can 100% assure you guys..... the prawn seats are going up too.
I'm in 223 which a 'red' seat, and my seats have gone up each year.

I believe the red numbers in your chart are the Club seats.
the club seats have this *Additional Club Fee applies added to the cost,
so I don't think they've actually gone down in cost.

I'm guessing the renewal rate was lowest there last year, or because they tend to be corporate seats, they're holding the line to try not to scare away cost-cutting bean counters.

Just like EPL teams this year, if they find they've reached the pain threshold, lose some renewals, and have a hard time finding takers, they will drop prices. Reluctantly. But if they have to go deep into the waiting list to sell all the seasons, they'll know they misunderestimated what the market could bear.

Would it help if the FO gave us some rationale for the increase?

Oblio2

09-18-2009, 02:18 PM

Just checked mine.

Sec 110, row 20 $361 x 2
Sec 127, row 7 $361 X 2
+ $12 fee.
$1456
:(

onemanbarmyarmy

09-18-2009, 02:55 PM

sidvan

09-18-2009, 03:56 PM

Club seats are $1634 + $300 seat fee = $1934

Sullivan

09-19-2009, 03:43 PM

SteeltownBhoy

09-20-2009, 12:14 AM

I think the result of the TFC in LA tonight will tip some people over the edge and they won't renew.

Fear not fustrated waitlist people, who will have the chance to become fustrated TFC season ticket holders this year.

Oh and please try ther prawns, MO swears by them.

Pookie

09-20-2009, 09:39 AM

Parkdale

09-20-2009, 09:44 AM

This season, I had control or proxy for 12 seats.
4 in 224; 4 in 124 and 4 in 123. All have increased for 2010.

My family sits in 124; me and my mates sit in 224 purely for the technical and tactical view and discussion.

I'm letting the 4 in 123 go. They are my corporate seats, and the decision is not based on just this season but last year as well, the ROI has not been justified.

More importantly, I for one very much appreciate what the south end brings to each match. They lead the way for the rest of us in the stadium. And if those supporters are priced out, well, ... when they leave, so does the atmosphere! And so goes the bloom...

FTR: we already do the BMO concession boycott in 2009; grossly overpriced food & drink. It will continue in 2010.

always good to hear the perspective of a seat holder with premium tickets.
A lot of the complaining comes from people with a $600 account for 2 seats,
and it's important to hear from the people on the other end of the scale.

personally, I have two seats that I'm relocating this year, and depending on where they end up, I might sell off my killer 223 seats (front row) for the season. I'd never give them up for good, but it might be worth doing a little repositioning to get my perspective back.

menefreghista

09-20-2009, 10:27 AM

Some people are surprised that ticket prices are going up after a year in which we budgeted for and then signed a multi-million dollar player?

This goes in the "careful what you wish for" category. Lots of positives. This is the negative.

I don't think anyone is surprised that there is an increase.

Its the RATE of the the increase that's shocking.

We have also lost a game from the package, which is a point that seems to be lost on all the defenders of this increase.

Pookie

09-20-2009, 11:27 AM

I don't think anyone is surprised that there is an increase.

Its the RATE of the the increase that's shocking.

We have also lost a game from the package, which is a point that seems to be lost on all the defenders of this increase.

Note that I'm not defending the increase. I think they are going to price out those that create the "atmosphere" that they sell. I also think that a "star driven" marketing plan is the complete wrong direction for this league and this team.

What I am saying is that if your payroll almost doubles (2.3M to over 4M) in one year, it's not that shocking to see ticket prices increasing at the RATE they are to fund that. How did people expect them to pay for De Guzman when they draw under 100,000 fans on TV?

BakaGaijin

09-20-2009, 10:46 PM

What I am saying is that if your payroll almost doubles (2.3M to over 4M) in one year, it's not that shocking to see ticket prices increasing at the RATE they are to fund that. How did people expect them to pay for De Guzman when they draw under 100,000 fans on TV?

The revenue from making it the Champions League group stage and a couple of home playoff games would make that increase in salary look insignificant.

All we need is competent management to get us the players and the tactics required to get there.

No need to stick it to the supporters.........stick it to the management that failed to win the Voyaguers Cup last year and failed to get us past Puerto Rico this year.

Three home games in the Champions League this year would have generated close to an estimated $3 million in ticket revenue.

Pookie

09-21-2009, 01:11 PM

The revenue from making it the Champions League group stage and a couple of home playoff games would make that increase in salary look insignificant.

All we need is competent management to get us the players and the tactics required to get there.

No need to stick it to the supporters.........stick it to the management that failed to win the Voyaguers Cup last year and failed to get us past Puerto Rico this year.

Three home games in the Champions League this year would have generated close to an estimated $3 million in ticket revenue.

True but let me ask this. If you get a bonus or salary plus commission, is it sound financial advice to spend the money now and plan to pay for it with the bonus?

Or do you spend within your current means and pay your debt with your current income?

Playoff dates and Champions League dates are not guaranteed. Therefore, management built a business model that paid for their expenses out of their current revenue stream.

I'm not thrilled at the idea of paying more for my tickets next year (and the year after that). At the same time, this isn't a surprise. If you want De Guzman, you have to pay.

Same goes for all of those clamouring over each other to propose raising the salary cap. There is no magical wallet for this business to dip into. It will come out of our pockets.

Careful what you wish for.

mclaren

09-21-2009, 02:56 PM

yep. good point.

I'm thinking that bmo-beer is off the menu for me.

I stopped paying outrageous prices for beer at BMO about a season and a half ago. I didn't expect my little protest to make a difference but it makes me feel good. What with the Real Madrid debacle, the terrible state of affairs on the pitch, and the fact Mo Johnston still has a job with us, the time is coming when we need to stand up and demand better. Like others here, I've been saying it for a long time but I will continue to do so until MLSE starts to respect the fans and not continually take us for granted. How much is loyalty worth again? $15?

ArmenJBX

09-21-2009, 03:02 PM

I loved the Madrid game, I know it was a cash grab but I absolutely loved that game...

But yeah, I agree that the 15$ "loyalty bonus" is a slap in the face.

mclaren

09-21-2009, 03:24 PM

Looking at my invoice (Section 110 - dark gray), I'm contemplating the cost of renewal: $943. One thing I don't like is that by renewing, I will automatically be billed for playoff tickets. I won't be in the country!

Many here are complaining, with sound reason, the increased cost of their tickets. I won't renew tonight; I'm going to think about it. But I probably will renew, as, I suspect, will most participants in this thread.

haha! trust me, your money is safe. those games ain't taking place.

dag

09-21-2009, 06:46 PM

^ I renewed my season ticket today by calling my ticket agent and asking that I be removed from automatically purchasing the playoff ticket(s). She said that wasn't a problem. <Wink>

BakaGaijin

09-21-2009, 07:24 PM

True but let me ask this. If you get a bonus or salary plus commission, is it sound financial advice to spend the money now and plan to pay for it with the bonus?

Or do you spend within your current means and pay your debt with your current income?

Playoff dates and Champions League dates are not guaranteed. Therefore, management built a business model that paid for their expenses out of their current revenue stream.

I'm not thrilled at the idea of paying more for my tickets next year (and the year after that). At the same time, this isn't a surprise. If you want De Guzman, you have to pay.

Same goes for all of those clamouring over each other to propose raising the salary cap. There is no magical wallet for this business to dip into. It will come out of our pockets.

Careful what you wish for.

I've already paid for de Guzman.

The current revenue streams far exceed expenses. If MLSEL wants to make that info public and prove me wrong........please feel free to do so. If the salary cap goes up next year, are KC, Dallas, New York, Chicago, Columbus etc going to raise ticket prices by 60%? Did New York raise prices when they brought in Angel? DC with Emilio? Columbus with Schellotto?

This is a fucking smoke screen excuse to justify the price increase. MLS pays the league salaries.........if the salary cap really does go up to $4 million per team next year and the rest of the league doesn't massively increase ticket prices, then something doesn't add up.........

TFCtoMUFC

09-21-2009, 07:29 PM

MLSE raising ticket prices due to JDG and grass is bull, they make revenue off the leafs if anybody doesnt remember. The franchising fee for seats alone is almost 10,000 and the NHL is salary capped.

Super

09-21-2009, 08:30 PM

The quality of play, and the league itself, is most certainly not worth my $700 per season. However, that being said, it's the best we have out here in the Wild West of football, and it is only going to get better, so I try to be patient, and at the same time I focus on the fact that I do have a blast on game day with my friends - and I enjoy being part of creating the best atmosphere in the MLS. So yes, I'll renew. No doubt about it.

SteeltownBhoy

09-21-2009, 10:54 PM

This is interesting. Ther San Jose Earthquakes are LOWERING their season ticket prices by 33%. Indicating that it's the right thing to do in tough economisc times.

This is the first I've heard of any team doing that. They average about 10,000/game
(i thought it was less) and have plans for that new stadium.

Good for them and F**k you again ML$E.

Pookie

09-22-2009, 06:27 AM

I've already paid for de Guzman.

The current revenue streams far exceed expenses. If MLSEL wants to make that info public and prove me wrong........please feel free to do so. If the salary cap goes up next year, are KC, Dallas, New York, Chicago, Columbus etc going to raise ticket prices by 60%? Did New York raise prices when they brought in Angel? DC with Emilio? Columbus with Schellotto?

This is a fucking smoke screen excuse to justify the price increase. MLS pays the league salaries.........if the salary cap really does go up to $4 million per team next year and the rest of the league doesn't massively increase ticket prices, then something doesn't add up.........

Couple of points. The only picture we have of revenue stream is from 2007 and Forbes Magazine. They published data that showed Toronto had an operating profit of $2.1M.

Regardless of the accuracy of that number, there is a simple equation.

Before DeGuzman, the expenses on salaries were somewhere around $2.3M. With him, over $4M.

This additional expense eats into operating profit. The ONLY way to offset a jump in expenses that is to increase revenue.

To say that MLSE is rich and that their other teams should subsidize TFC is simply (and I say this respectfully) niave. Each group within MLSE operates as a separate entity and are expected to contribute to overall profits.

If Burke delivers profit against his budget, why should he give it up to TFC? He is bonused on what he delivers. If the Condo group delivers on their targets, they are bonused on performance as well. To give that up is not the way business operates.

TFC has a budget and a mandate to deliver on targets. Those targets might not include huge goals for operating profit but they are expected to operate within certain parameters. One of those being operating profits.

To suggest that they went into the season with a plan to spend money on DP (as they did) without thinking about how they would offset that new expense is simply niave.

RedsYNWA

09-23-2009, 02:38 PM

I have a feeling that more than a few people will not renew their seats.
I will renew my pair going in with a friend in the south as he will not renew his pair in 121. I'm sure a bunch of people got hit by the recession

boban

09-23-2009, 02:59 PM

Couple of points. The only picture we have of revenue stream is from 2007 and Forbes Magazine. They published data that showed Toronto had an operating profit of $2.1M.

Regardless of the accuracy of that number, there is a simple equation.

Before DeGuzman, the expenses on salaries were somewhere around $2.3M. With him, over $4M.

This additional expense eats into operating profit. The ONLY way to offset a jump in expenses that is to increase revenue.

To say that MLSE is rich and that their other teams should subsidize TFC is simply (and I say this respectfully) niave. Each group within MLSE operates as a separate entity and are expected to contribute to overall profits.

If Burke delivers profit against his budget, why should he give it up to TFC? He is bonused on what he delivers. If the Condo group delivers on their targets, they are bonused on performance as well. To give that up is not the way business operates.

TFC has a budget and a mandate to deliver on targets. Those targets might not include huge goals for operating profit but they are expected to operate within certain parameters. One of those being operating profits.

To suggest that they went into the season with a plan to spend money on DP (as they did) without thinking about how they would offset that new expense is simply niave.
Good aergument but what you forgot to realize is that TFC as of this year is debt free.
Expansion fee : recouped
Stadium Construction money : recouped

That's about $20 million US that MLSE was repaid. Factor that in with the $2 m profit and you see De Guzman or not, MLSE is making shit loads.
Yes paying De Guzman is an increase, but so to does profit increase with the $20M off the books. That is about $7m more of profit a year (20/3 years).
And let's not even get into all the expansion money coming into the league - which MLSE get's a piece of.

Darlofletch

09-23-2009, 06:37 PM

I called up today to ask a couple of questions about how all this works, a thoroughly unpleasant experience as as soon as he found out I was only on the gold list and so couldn't actually purchase anything right there and then, the rep (david) made it very obvious he didn't give a shit about my questions and just wanted me off the phone as quickly as possible, but he said to me that if you're not renewing, then the maximum you can get as a new ssh would be 2 seats. this came as a bit of a shock to me, has anyone else heard this? Is this true, or is he just being the obnoxious salesman and trying to pressure me into renewing the tickets I have in someone else's name?

Suds

09-23-2009, 06:40 PM

Darlofletch

09-23-2009, 07:02 PM

Last year they said they were capping seat ownership for new SSH's at 4 seats. So, unless something changed, it's BS.

Thanks, that's what i thought, as when i asked him to confirm he started waffling about how it depends on renewal rates etc etc

Pookie

09-23-2009, 08:34 PM

Good aergument but what you forgot to realize is that TFC as of this year is debt free.
Expansion fee : recouped
Stadium Construction money : recouped

That's about $20 million US that MLSE was repaid. Factor that in with the $2 m profit and you see De Guzman or not, MLSE is making shit loads.
Yes paying De Guzman is an increase, but so to does profit increase with the $20M off the books. That is about $7m more of profit a year (20/3 years).
And let's not even get into all the expansion money coming into the league - which MLSE get's a piece of.

True enough but the one factor that doesn't change is that their profit was higher before signing DeGuzman. Regardless of how much they are (rumoured to be) making, it is less now that they are writing him cheques.

You aren't going to see me side with MLSE or any corporation for that matter when it comes to profit. It's absolutely insane that companies lay people off when they are making millions, if not billions, in profits all in the name of "shareholders."

It is absolutely hard to swallow a ticket price increase if profits are indeed being made, even with a million dollar signing.

But in the end, we don't get to write off our tickets as a charitable donation because we buy them from a business. Business, much to Micheal Moore's chagrin, doesn't operate with a sense of fairness. It never has and that is why there shouldn't be such a sense of surprise at what is being put on the table.