Vancouver's Retractable Roof likely to be CANCELLED

[Vancouver MLS]

Bad news for the Whitecaps plans for MLS and this extinguishes hopes the BC Government would build a Retractable Roof:

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Sports/2009/09/10/10816211-sun.html

No taxes for roof

Private money could rescue the planned retractable roof for B.C. Place Stadium, said the minister responsible.

"We won't be paying the extra out of taxpayers' funds," Kevin Krueger told 24 hours yesterday. "People are working together to find a way with a private sector partnership, potentially including the bidders, perhaps including the unions."

The $365 million project is under review by treasury board because of rising cost estimates. Completion is planned for 2011.

"We don't have to do it, if government had to we could just replace the existing roof," Krueger said. "A lot of people want a retractable roof and they're willing to partner to get it. I believe we'll have partners and we'll get it done."

Krueger denied technical issues have driven up costs for the pioneering project.

"No one has expressed any concerns at all about the engineering or ability to construct it," he said.

[flatpicker]

I still can't believe they haven't OK'd the building of a new soccer stadium.

It's seems to be a no-brainer...

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

I still can't believe they haven't OK'd the building of a new soccer stadium.

It's seems to be a no-brainer...

The $365 million revamp? is that what they are planning?


look at that nice stadium they are building in new york half the cost!


you would think its a no brainer!

[flatpicker]

^ well, from what I understand, the cost for a new Whitecaps stadium was gonna be paid by the owner.

And the property is owned by the same dude I think?

It was just politics standing in the way from what I remember.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

^ well, from what I understand, the cost for a new Whitecaps stadium was gonna be paid by the owner.

And the property is owned by the same dude I think?

It was just politics standing in the way from what I remember.

.. Hopefully it will all work out in the end!

[ilikemusic]

Shocking!

:rolleyes:

[Brooker]

I was under the impression that the roof wasn't that big of a deal, atleast from what their owner or whoever it was on Its Called Football had said.

[billyfly]

Make fun of Toronto and that's what you get.

[Redcoe15]

Bad news for the Whitecaps plans for MLS and this extinguishes hopes the BC Government would build a Retractable Roof:

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Sports/2009/09/10/10816211-sun.html

No taxes for roof

Private money could rescue the planned retractable roof for B.C. Place Stadium, said the minister responsible.

"We won't be paying the extra out of taxpayers' funds," Kevin Krueger told 24 hours yesterday. "People are working together to find a way with a private sector partnership, potentially including the bidders, perhaps including the unions."

The $365 million project is under review by treasury board because of rising cost estimates. Completion is planned for 2011.

"We don't have to do it, if government had to we could just replace the existing roof," Krueger said. "A lot of people want a retractable roof and they're willing to partner to get it. I believe we'll have partners and we'll get it done."

Krueger denied technical issues have driven up costs for the pioneering project.

"No one has expressed any concerns at all about the engineering or ability to construct it," he said.
Two things. First, this troll has been posting over at BigSoccer under the name playball2 with this same story (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1154563). And the Vancouver supporters, from Johnnie Monster, krammerhead, et al, have told him to STFU and GTFO with his bullshit. So nobody here should take this douche seriously with what he posts.

And second, why the fuck haven't you been banned from this forum, Vancouver MLS, or playball2, or spiral, or whatever new name you come up with to try and fool the mods? Your username says you support a Vancouver MLS team, and you've been caught spouting anti-Toronto messages here before. Seriously, take your shit and get out.

[Vancouver MLS]

any way to report this last post to the Mods and have some action taken?

[MartinUtd]

Well they're using HST as an excuse to pay for all the Olympic construction and people out there are getting mighty pissed at that prospect. Nobody wants tax dollars going towards this sort of extravagance at this point in time considering a pro soccer team is wayyy down on the list of public priorities. We really should have seen this coming sooner.

[mmmikey]

no crazy expensive retractable roof? so? it was still going to be turf... so its still going to be turf. and games will ALL be indoors.

hurry up and build your stadium, this seems like a non-issue.

[NF-FC]

Spiral, what is your deal? honestly? Why do you go around to multiple soccer websites and bash this retractable roof? Not only bash it, but you take figures and reports out of context a claim them as truth (the worst part is that some people now believe them as truth). Did this roof kick your dog or something?

First off, the roof does not cost $360 million, that's the total cost for the entire stadium, including work which has already started.

Secondly, the roof needs to be replaced no matter what. It's old, it's tearing, and it costs a shitload to keep inflated.

[Brooker]

any way to report this last post to the Mods and have some action taken?

yeah, i agree.

ban VancouverMLS ASAP. :D

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Bad news for the Whitecaps plans for MLS and this extinguishes hopes the BC Government would build a Retractable Roof:

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Sports/2009/09/10/10816211-sun.html

No taxes for roof

Private money could rescue the planned retractable roof for B.C. Place Stadium, said the minister responsible.

"We won't be paying the extra out of taxpayers' funds," Kevin Krueger told 24 hours yesterday. "People are working together to find a way with a private sector partnership, potentially including the bidders, perhaps including the unions."

The $365 million project is under review by treasury board because of rising cost estimates. Completion is planned for 2011.

"We don't have to do it, if government had to we could just replace the existing roof," Krueger said. "A lot of people want a retractable roof and they're willing to partner to get it. I believe we'll have partners and we'll get it done."

Krueger denied technical issues have driven up costs for the pioneering project.

"No one has expressed any concerns at all about the engineering or ability to construct it," he said.


God you in the league earlier then you should be, you didnt have to have A SSS like TFC did, now you lot are bitching cause you wont have a moveable roof..come on.. MLS made a mistake letting in Vancouver without the SSS..that said you can play in BC place till a SSS is ok'd, if ever...heck even the Impact have a SSS and thats not a MLS team!!:scarf:

[Brooker]

^^^ can you even call them a team?

[Blizzard]

any way to report this last post to the Mods and have some action taken?

You mean the way you were red carded for life from Big Soccer for being a sock puppet (amongst other much less complimentary things)?

:picard:

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

^^^ can you even call them a team?


No not really just in name only...The Caps need to find new Land away from the water front...F**k the view and get a SSS built and tell the BC prov where they can stick BC place..

[Redcoe15]

^^^ I have a feeling you and Vancouver MLS would get along just fine.


You mean the way you were red carded for life from Big Soccer for being a sock puppet (amongst other much less complimentary things)?

:picard:
And now, he's just been red carded at BS as playball2 for his continuing nonsense. :D

[SPARTACUS]

Gentleman...I'm here in BC. The roof is going ahead. Yes there is a slight delay, but again like every othe project in life it takes time, money and the right people. It will be done. Why are the whitecaps doing this, its a no brainer....BC place is a quality facility, even after years of operations. So imagine it with real grass, a retractable roof and some other nice upgrades. I am a Whitecaps fan but I will not digress from facts here. We are in envy of what the TFC fans have so don not worry...We are coming and the roof is coming off! I can't wait for the years of rivalry:canada:

Good luck today and hammer the shznat out of Colorado:flare::drum:

[Dirk Diggler]

Gentleman...I'm here in BC. The roof is going ahead. Yes there is a slight delay, but again like every othe project in life it takes time, money and the right people. It will be done. Why are the whitecaps doing this, its a no brainer....BC place is a quality facility, even after years of operations. So imagine it with real grass, a retractable roof and some other nice upgrades. I am a Whitecaps fan but I will not digress from facts here. We are in envy of what the TFC fans have so don not worry...We are coming and the roof is coming off! I can't wait for the years of rivalry:canada:

Good luck today and hammer the shznat out of Colorado:flare::drum:

The new BC Place will be getting real grass? Are you sure that is happening? I had never heard of that before.

[SPARTACUS]

The new BC Place will be getting real grass? Are you sure that is happening? I had never heard of that before.

Oooops my bad. I think I may have leaked something :yum:

[Vancouver MLS]

Spartacus, if the Roof is really going ahead, why no official announcement from the Government?

The Minister says they don't know what will happen given the finances of the province.

One thing's for sure. No tax money will be used to finance the Retractable. That'll have to come from the private sector or Kerfoot himself, which is the way it should be

[rocker]

the taxpayer thing is a red herring.

if they are concerned about tax payer money going to the roof, they should allow Kerfoot to build his soccer specific stadium, which he promised would cost taxpayers nothing. Then they wouldn't need a retractable roof for the soccer team (CFL? I dunno, talk to them).

It's not like the Caps want to be in BC Place at all, if they had their way.

[Roogsy]

Guys, whatever happened to Vancouver MLS at BS is not a factor in whether he is allowed to post here. Relevant news of Vancouver MLS aspirations are allowed here so long as it's a reasonable amount and doesn't overtake our main interest, Toronto FC. We are aware of Vancouver MLS's presence here and so long as he follows board rules, he is allowed to be here. If he steps out of line, report the post and it will be taken care of. Easy as that. Whatever beefs you have with him at BS, leave them there.

[SPARTACUS]

Spartacus, if the Roof is really going ahead, why no official announcement from the Government?

The Minister says they don't know what will happen given the finances of the province.

One thing's for sure. No tax money will be used to finance the Retractable. That'll have to come from the private sector or Kerfoot himself, which is the way it should be

Private, you will hear soon enough.

[greatwhitenorf]

Could always just hook a big tarp onto the roof at Swangard and tie it off to the big pine trees high up on the other side. Grass pitch - and a sweet one at that - already in place.

And that swell beer garden can remain strategically and profitably placed at the far end of the field from where Evil Bert and his nerdy crew of 40-year-old virgins hang out.

[Dirk Diggler]

Private, you will hear soon enough.

You always claim to have insider information about everything ranging from JDG to the Vancouver Whitecaps but I have a hard time believing it. This BC Place drama is certainly bringing a lot of weirdness on this board.

[Vancouver MLS]

If the plan is to have construction companies pay the upfront cost of this Retractable roof and have them entitled to a percentage of stadium profits, I don't see that as being realistic.

I could believe a P3 (Public Private Partnership) if we were dealing with a bridge. In fact there's already P3 agreements in place for the twinning of the Port Mann Bridge and Golden Ears bridge.

Difference being, with bridges, there's always traffic so there's always a revenue stream.

Not the same with BC Place. It's a white elephant.

Kerfoot only signed a 5 year lease. What happens to the revenue stream once the Caps leave in 2015?

What if the MLS goes bankrupt? What if the CFL goes bankrupt?

Then we have an empty stadium with a costly roof that's of no benefit to anyone.

I could see the justification if we had Major League Baseball and 85 home games a year.

Who in the Private sector would want to plow money into this Roof project?

What's the return on the investment? It might take a construction company 30 years to make all the money back.

As far as the sale of lands around the stadium (the vacant parking lots), I hardly think that will cover the cost of the Retractable roof.

Realistically, how much can Pavillion Corporation get for all that land around BC Place? $ 50 million? $ 75 million? Certainly that land is not worth $ 360 million in total.

My hunch is Pavco is trying to get Kerfoot to sign a longer term lease, say 10 years or 15 years. Then it may make financial sense.

5 years no way in hell.

As far as naming rights, Dupont was going to sign on much like General Motors has a naming rights deal for GM Place.

Dupont was to furnish much of the construction materials for the roof.

The Stadium would be called "Dupont Field at BC Place".

Pavco may have a buyer for the land title around BC Place.

This whole Retractable Roof may hinge on that deal falling through.

[mmmikey]

here's a question.. given Vancouver's climate is nowhere near as harsh as Toronto and their harshest period of winter is rather short in comparison, is there any reason why a grass field cannot be in a healthy condition for the start of the MLS/CFL seasons? Sure you will get alot of rain, but if my memory of BC Place serves, a lot of the crowd would be sheltered. Is it absolutely necessary for there to be a roof on a stadium in Vancouver?

I assume no retractable roof would mean a dome and turf. Would the community use be anywhere close to the use that BMO Field had? It is possible to play on turf for 5 years.. not ideal, but it's better than no MLS isn't it? Our biggest problem is the turf is CRAP. Totally overused and broken down. Grass is always better, but when conditions don't exist to support it, a turf field isn't the end of the world (especially if your still planning to move into your own open air stadium down the road).

[Vancouver MLS]

I agree with Spartacus that it will be private money and private money only that will save a Retractable for the Caps. Otherwise it'll be a dome till the place is torn down and the Caps will have to accept that.

Heaven knows where that private money would come from, so I'm skeptical.

Grass is out of the question for BC Place for the same reason grass is out of the question for Rogers Center: too many trade shows and conventions and other events that need the turf to be removed.

That is why Rogers Center and BC Place use "Convertible" Fieldturf. It comes in square sections to be easily removed.

Look at the turf the Blue Jays play on. It's in square sections 6 feet aside.

Our turf is the same turf the Expos played on when they left Montreal in 2004; Olympic Stadium sold it to BC Place for $ 1.5 million.

[Vindaloo]

Grass is out of the question for BC Place for the same reason grass is out of the question for Rogers Center: too many trade shows and conventions and other events that need the turf to be removed.



That's not true. A renovated BC Place could install a modular natural grass system that can be taken out for different events. Greentech was used ( http://www.greentechitm.com/systems/multiuse.asp ) for Athens and Beijing for example. The entire pitch and replacement sections can be grown off-site and then rotated or replaced when needed.

They can also install a natural pitch and cover it with Terraplas ( http://www.terraplas.com/products/terraflor/ ). Wembley and many other stadia around the world and NA use this now. It doesn't damage the grass and even can prevent damage to grass after 5 days of being covered. It can successfully handle the extreme weight on it from rock concerts and trade shows as well. In fact, BC Place apparently already has one of their products to cover their plastic pitch.

With the sunlight coming in from the open areas around the stadium ring beam and with the roof opening combined with heat lamps like in European stadia, BC Place would have no problem handling a grass pitch. The only real issue is the cost, method used to implement it, and maintenance issues with throwball ruining the pitch. Greentech could solve that problem though with regrown modular pieces rotated in to replace damaged ones.

[Vancouver MLS]

Does this grass grow inside a dome? Or does it have to be exposed to sunlight and fresh air?

While modular systems have been used in other stadiums, keep in mind BC Place is used for 200 event days every year. The grass system will have to be adaptable to the rigors of that sort of schedule incorporating 9 Lions games and 16 MLS games plus the trade show schedule, concerts and Monster Trucks.

All of this rests on a Retractable Roof that will cost upwards of $ 200 million not including reinforcement.

No funding found for that, all bets are off

[mmmikey]

While modular systems have been used in other stadiums, keep in mind BC Place is used for 200 event days every year. The grass system will have to be adaptable to the rigors of that sort of schedule incorporating 9 Lions games and 16 MLS games plus the trade show schedule, concerts and Monster Trucks.


This will be an issue with or without a retractable roof.

[Vancouver MLS]

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/News/local/2009/09/18/10967716-sun.html

[DOMIN8R]

Not a done deal yet but...B.C. Place to get retractable roof

B.C. Place Stadium will be fitted with a retractable roof after the conclusion of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games after all, a source with knowledge of the situation told The Globe and Mail.

The provincial government started waffling on the proposed roof project this summer, just before announcing that it would run four consecutive deficits and declaring the financial cupboard “bare.” Kevin Krueger, B.C.'s Minister of Tourism, Culture and the Arts told a commuter newspaper last month that tax dollars would not be used to cover the rising costs of the project, and that the province was looking for private-sector partners to help finance the estimated $300-million project.

More here:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-place-to-get-retractable-roof/article1314612/

[Vancouver MLS]

sorry to rain on the parade. The Government is denying the report:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/10/07/bc-retractable-roof-bc-place-stadium.html

[james]

i never really wanted to see them play at BC Place anyways, its to big for the whitecaps, i hope they get a SSS built one day.

[Whoop]

Retractable roofs are super expensive.

Part of the reason why the Montreal Olympics went over budget... with that stupid roof at the Big O.

[werewolf]

Retractable roofs are super expensive.

Part of the reason why the Montreal Olympics went over budget... with that stupid roof at the Big O.

I wonder if it would be cheaper to install a proper drainage system with a high quality grass pitch.

[NF-FC]

I wonder if it would be cheaper to install a proper drainage system with a high quality grass pitch.

it would be cheaper, but they would only be able use for it for 30-40 sporting events instead of the 200+ event dates they currently have.

This stadium is getting a new roof, there is no way around it. The current one is falling apart and the facility needs a roof to be viable.