potential salary problem

[Manutd #1]

Attakora-Gyan Nana D $ 3 4,000.00 $ 34,000.00
TFC Barrett Chad F $ 1 95,000.00 $ 202,500.00
TFC Brennan Jim D $ 1 85,000.00 $ 193,250.00
TFC Cronin Sam M $ 3 6,000.00 $ 84,000.00
TFC DeRosario Dwayne M $ 3 57,000.00 $ 425,750.00
TFC Dichio Daniel F $ 1 20,000.00 $ 120,000.00
TFC Edwards Brian GK $ 3 9,600.00 $ 48,350.00
TFC Frei Stefan GK $ 6 5,000.00 $ 120,000.00
TFC Gala Gabe D $ 3 4,000.00 $ 34,000.00
TFC Gomez Emmanuel D $ 2 0,100.00 $ 25,850.00
TFC Guevara Amado M $ 3 00,000.00 $ 323,750.00
TFC Harmse Kevin M $ 7 9,200.00 $ 79,200.00
TFC Ibrahim Fuad F $ 7 5,000.00 $ 108,000.00
TFC Ricketts Rohan M $ 1 65,000.00 $ 165,000.00
TFC Robinson Carl M $ 3 00,000.00 $ 315,000.00
TFC Sayang Amadou D $ 3 4,008.00 $ 40,563.55
TFC Serioux Adrian D $ 1 19,070.00 $ 131,570.00
TFC Smith Johann F $ 4 5,000.00 $ 56,666.67
TFC Sutton Greg GK $ 1 57,500.00 $ 165,062.50
TFC Velez Marco D $ 6 3,000.00 $ 63,500.00
TFC Vitti Pablo F $ 2 88,000.00 $ 303,000.00
TFC White O'Brian F $ 3 6,000.00 $ 113,000.00
TFC Wynne Marvell D $ 5 7,000.00 $ 159,500.00


we can debate who does not deserve to make the money they do but the point of this thread is to discuss the cap for next year, guys like gomez($20,000) sayang($40,000) and nana($34,000) most of these guys will probably get a pay raise next year or the year after at the latest if they keep performing the way they do

[bangersandmash]

Isn't the CBA being negotiated this winter? There could be a higher salary cap next year. Or a strike. Who knows.

[S_D]

That list is a bit out of date.

you can take out Dichio, Harmse, Velez, Smith, Ricketts, Sutton and the 2 G/A's except Frei may lose his status next season since he has appeared in so many games.

Then add 400 for JDG if it happens and I think it was 200 for Garcia, Gerba, not sure what fellinga makes.

After seeing this it really puts the roster turn over into perspective.

[jloome]

Boy, negotiation obviously isn't Mo's strong suit. 63 grand for Marco Velez? $165,000 for Rohan? $108,000 for Ibby?

OK, OK, I know...thread hijack.

I concur with the fact that we're going to see both CBA and roster changes in the off-season, so it's next to impossible to determine right now what impact salaries will have.

[Blizzard]

Isn't the CBA being negotiated this winter? There could be a higher salary cap next year. Or a strike. Who knows.

I've heard rumbles that it could be close to $3 million next year. For the sake of the sport, let's hope so.

Now, if only they would go the next step and totally remove a DP from the cap. No more $415k (or whatever it is) deducted from the cap, go all the way and just make the DP 100% outside the cap.

Let's hope people.

B

[InTheCrowd]

There shouldn't be a problem.

[S_D]

CBA has nothing to do with the cap. That is set by the league. The CBA has some stuff in it about minimum salaries but that is about it.

I guess it could change though if the union actually tied salaries to revenue like in the other leagues.

[Manutd #1]

it is funny looking at this though, i know the contracts were from the start of the year but if i was nana i would be like i should be in the top 3 money earners on this team(performance wise) and i make like nothing.

[Pookie]

And therein lies the issue with a million dollar player and a $34k player on the same roster, playing a team game.

Personally, I would love to see any additional salary cap increases directed towards raising the minimum salary. Clearly, it is hard to make a living as a young player and if you are looking at career options, where would we be if Nana had opted to hang up the boots in favour of a "real job"?

[Oldtimer]

CBA has nothing to do with the cap. That is set by the league. The CBA has some stuff in it about minimum salaries but that is about it.

I guess it could change though if the union actually tied salaries to revenue like in the other leagues.

Everything is up for negotiation. The next CBA could indeed include the cap as part of it's provisions. That's my take on why the league has been so slow to raise it, even though it is crying to be raised.

[Batman]

Man, the numbers astound.

Some of our better young players making little more than miniumum wage.
Dichio also seems very low for what he brought to the franchise as a whole.

And on the other end of the spectrum, Vitti, Robinson and Guevara in the 300k range. I'm borderline on Guevara being worth it, but I'd say no way to both Vitti and Robbo.

I know this wasnt the point of the thread...but had to comment.

[Phil]

There is a big push to have the cap raised by not only the players but some of the owners too.

I am pretty sure we are banking on that for next year with the negotiations coming up.

[CoachGT]

Boy, negotiation obviously isn't Mo's strong suit. 63 grand for Marco Velez? $165,000 for Rohan? $108,000 for Ibby?

OK, OK, I know...thread hijack.

I concur with the fact that we're going to see both CBA and roster changes in the off-season, so it's next to impossible to determine right now what impact salaries will have.

But remember, Ibby's contract was negotiated in Dallas (or at least I thought it was) and I thought he qualified for special (G/A) status.

The question I have is who has a contract that will expire this year? There were rumblings on Big Soccer that Wynne's deal is done at the end of this year, and it wouldn't surprise me if Guevara was in the same boat. Do we know of any others?

[S_D]

But remember, Ibby's contract was negotiated in Dallas (or at least I thought it was) and I thought he qualified for special (G/A) status.
The question I have is who has a contract that will expire this year? There were rumblings on Big Soccer that Wynne's deal is done at the end of this year, and it wouldn't surprise me if Guevara was in the same boat. Do we know of any others?

Yeah Ibby is GA so it doesn't count against the cap, same as Frei although as I mentioned earlier he could lose the status due to the number of games being played.

Coach, you can add Vitti since he is on a one year loan agreement


Everything is up for negotiation. The next CBA could indeed include the cap as part of it's provisions. That's my take on why the league has been so slow to raise it, even though it is crying to be raised.

They did raise it in an underhanded way. They gave each team a 100K allocation on top of the cap rather than raise it significantly.

I can't see it happenening. The Union has a lot of issues to deal with in the agreement that needs fixing. And honestly they are in a weak position with so many teams not making cash. My take has been the league has been slow to raise it because of their slow growth strategy even though I agree, it should be raised. I think their biggest issues are going to be the minimum wages and the MLS's refusal to let a player go (sold) unless they waive the 10% player fees.


There is a big push to have the cap raised by not only the players but some of the owners too.
I am pretty sure we are banking on that for next year with the negotiations coming up.

That is the minority of teams though. Rumoured to be Toronto, LA (AEG), Seattle and maybe NYRB since they want more bang when they open their new stadium. LA was pushing a compromise to have the entire DP salary outside of the cap so the 400K could go to other players but apparently it didn't fly. Not surprising since they have Beckham and the grandfathered contract of Donovan.

[werewolf]

I see a huge salaray problem - Chad Barrett: $202 500.

[S_D]

lol I couldn't agree more

My betting is he will be left unprotected in the expansion draft

[bangersandmash]

3 million for a cap is still a little on the light side (unless, as was suggested, the DP is removed from the equation). I'd like to see $5 million for a 24/26 man roster. A luxury tax would be awesome but I'd also be interested in seeing the players negotiate something similar to what the NHLPA has -- the %of expenses devoted to salary is fixed. If the league pulls in more money, the players get a payday.

[Chevy]

And therein lies the issue with a million dollar player and a $34k player on the same roster, playing a team game.

Personally, I would love to see any additional salary cap increases directed towards raising the minimum salary. Clearly, it is hard to make a living as a young player and if you are looking at career options, where would we be if Nana had opted to hang up the boots in favour of a "real job"?

Very good point, but there will also be an issue with the million dollar player and the $400k player - and it might be worse than with the 34k player.

[Lucky Strike]

lol I couldn't agree more

My betting is he will be left unprotected in the expansion draft

It would be the easiest way to unload his salary if management is now suffering from buyer's remorse. While we often get on Bad Charrett's case, he can be an attractive option for an expansion club that's going to have boatloads of allocation. And on his day, he's not a terrible player. Only question is whether MLS will still have that strange rule that all (or all but 3 or something like that) your internationals must be protected. This could reduce the chance of him being left exposed - all presuming TFC wants to get rid of him.

[S_D]

It would be the easiest way to unload his salary if management is now suffering from buyer's remorse. While we often get on Bad Charrett's case, he can be an attractive option for an expansion club that's going to have boatloads of allocation. And on his day, he's not a terrible player. Only question is whether MLS will still have that strange rule that all (or all but 3 or something like that) your internationals must be protected. This could reduce the chance of him being left exposed - all presuming TFC wants to get rid of him.

problem is that the new team can't use allocation to buy down his salary so it would have to go to some other player. Much less of a detail when you are a new club though.

But I think we are covered:

Toronto FC, any non-domestic U.S. player or non-domestic Canadian player would count as an International.

Teams may make available a number of international players equal to their total number of international players minus 3, provided that if a team has 3 or less international players it may make available not more than 1.

Could you imagine the outcry if we were forced to protect Barrett over say Nana? LOL.

[Lucky Strike]

problem is that the new team can't use allocation to buy down his salary so it would have to go to some other player. Much less of a detail when you are a new club though.

But I think we are covered:

Toronto FC, any non-domestic U.S. player or non-domestic Canadian player would count as an International.

Teams may make available a number of international players equal to their total number of international players minus 3, provided that if a team has 3 or less international players it may make available not more than 1.

Could you imagine the outcry if we were forced to protect Barrett over say Nana? LOL.

Maybe I missed a meeting, but what's a non-domestic Canadian player? A player like Danny who's from England but now has Canadian citizenship (obviously he's no longer a player, but he's the only example I can think of).

[maninb]

You can pretty much GUARANTEE that Robbo and Guevara are gone by next year...that free's up $600K I think....

[S_D]

Maybe I missed a meeting, but what's a non-domestic Canadian player? A player like Danny who's from England but now has Canadian citizenship (obviously he's no longer a player, but he's the only example I can think of).

Canadian citizens and landed immigrants count as Canadians, and players are considered US domestics if they have their green card or are American citizens. Fellinga would be a non domestic Canadian player.

All they are doing is defining what are internationals for the purpose of the draft and roster exemptions. TFC has an exemption on the domestic rules where we are allowed to have a certain number of Americans on our team not count as internationals. They are their own category. Can't remember the exact number. Look in Wooster's player roster thread for more info.

And just to add, from what I remember Guevara has a green card so he could count as an American if they wanted to.

[bangersandmash]

You can pretty much GUARANTEE that Robbo and Guevara are gone by next year...that free's up $600K I think....

I can see Robbo leaving — Cronin has shown the mettle. But Guevara I'm not so sure about. We play so much better with him than without him.

[Pachuco]

There is no way in hell we could guess at whether we have a problem without knowing the allocation situation. The first post here assumes those salaries all count 100% towards the cap, which obviously isn't the case.

[Pachuco]

You can pretty much GUARANTEE that Robbo and Guevara are gone by next year...that free's up $600K I think....

I disagree. If Honduras doesn't make the world cup, then technically he still has a contract with us and if this team shows promise, I don't see why he wouldn't want to stay. For me there is no guarantees that Guevara is leaving.

[Lucky Strike]

Canadian citizens and landed immigrants count as Canadians, and players are considered US domestics if they have their green card or are American citizens. Fellinga would be a non domestic Canadian player.

All they are doing is defining what are internationals for the purpose of the draft and roster exemptions. TFC has an exemption on the domestic rules where we are allowed to have a certain number of Americans on our team not count as internationals. They are their own category. Can't remember the exact number. Look in Wooster's player roster thread for more info.

And just to add, from what I remember Guevara has a green card so he could count as an American if they wanted to.

Yeah, all of this I knew. But using Fellinga as an example just confused me more. Obviously he's non-domestic because he's Haitian, but what makes him a non-domestic Canadian?

I mean we have (and these are the terms MLS uses):

Internationals: Carl Robinson is an example
U.S. Internationals: Chad Barrett
Domestics: Nana Attakora

And then as you pointed out, citizenship (US or Canada), green cards and/or permanent resident status can all change a player's classification.

But what's a non-domestic Canadian? Did you maybe just mean an international?

[InTheCrowd]

Don't worry about them getting paid little over minimum wage lol. Base salaries were listed.

[rocker]

There is no way in hell we could guess at whether we have a problem without knowing the allocation situation. The first post here assumes those salaries all count 100% towards the cap, which obviously isn't the case.

ya, i don't even bother worrying about our cap situation anymore.
there are too many unknowns that running the math is pointless.

[Wooster_TFC]

Yeah, all of this I knew. But using Fellinga as an example just confused me more. Obviously he's non-domestic because he's Haitian, but what makes him a non-domestic Canadian?

I mean we have (and these are the terms MLS uses):

Internationals: Carl Robinson is an example
U.S. Internationals: Chad Barrett
Domestics: Nana Attakora

And then as you pointed out, citizenship (US or Canada), green cards and/or permanent resident status can all change a player's classification.

But what's a non-domestic Canadian? Did you maybe just mean an international?

If I remember correctly, what was quoted here were the rules from the last expansion draft. The comment was a catch-all for every single team. I believe the actual ruling was something to the extent of "anyone who counts as american or canadian does not count as an international, regardless of where they play".

[S_D]

But what's a non-domestic Canadian? Did you maybe just mean an international?

I didn't mean anything. Blame MLS lawyers for the term they made it up lol.

They just use the term as part of the definition of what an international is to TFC. We have players on our team who may live here but aren't Canadian by their definition, hence a non-domestic Canadian. DD was one until he became a landed immigrant, Fellinga is since he lives here but is Haitian.

Just to use the extreme as an example (because someone would have to be crazy to do it) If we had a foreigner (not American) who played on the team who lived in the States and a drove up here every day for practice and games (and had no green card, U.S. citizenship, Canadian landed immigrant status or Canadian citizenship), he would be a non domestic American.

They use the term "non domestic" because I bet some team tried to pull a fast one in the past and say well the player is an international but he lives here and should be considered a domestic even though he doesn't have a green card or is an American citizen.

I am sure we can blame LAG since they are always looking for loopholes :D

[McGill]

Maybe they can be paid less but get extras and incentives from MLSE, perhaps an apartment in the new building they are building next to ACC? :P

[S_D]

not allowed unfortunately. We asked P.B. about that to see if there were ways to help out the guys living on minimum wage. He said nope.

[BakaGaijin]

Everything is up for negotiation. The next CBA could indeed include the cap as part of it's provisions. That's my take on why the league has been so slow to raise it, even though it is crying to be raised.

I believe you are wrong. Due to the fact that MLS is a single entity league, a salary cap is not negotiable. There is only one "employer" in the MLS. The union cannot negotiate salaries on a per team basis. They can however, negotiate minimum salaries per player and such.

[InTheCrowd]

None of our players are on a minimum salary lol.

[McGill]

It seems like almost thievery to be paying players like Gomez and Sanyang $20K a year, no one can live off that and with the skill they have they should not be making less than a basic full-time employee of Wal-Mart.

[InTheCrowd]

It seems like almost thievery to be paying players like Gomez and Sanyang $20K a year, no one can live off that and with the skill they have they should not be making less than a basic full-time employee of Wal-Mart.

Sanyang is being paid like 35 000 a year and Gomez 25 000. Not bad considering pretty much all they did this season was train and play CSL games. Not to mention that they have a bunch of time in the off season.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

lol I couldn't agree more

My betting is he will be left unprotected in the expansion draft


the only problem there is if Phiily doesn't take a chance on him and hes back with us..TFC should try and trade him and take a low draft pick just to clear up cap space..i would be surprised if hes back in 2010

[InTheCrowd]

the only problem there is if Phiily doesn't take a chance on him and hes back with us..TFC should try and trade him and take a low draft pick just to clear up cap space..i would be surprised if hes back in 2010

Why exactly would a team actually trade for him?

[Brooker]

stop stop stop stop stop! :D

we the fans know nothing about what cap room we have / don't have.

[InTheCrowd]

stop stop stop stop stop! :D

we the fans know nothing about what cap room we have / don't have.

I know enough to say that Dichio didn't have to retire in order for JDG to sign.