Sanyang being followed by PSV Eindhoven

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

It seems the club has requested videos of Sanyang in action as well as two French clubs (unnamed) sending scouts over recently to watch the
TFC player..Look like anther player we will be hard pressed to keep for
any period of time.:(

[TFC HSV]

since im too lazy to look it up, whats the source?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

since im too lazy to look it up, whats the source?


its on yahoo sports.. soccer

[werewolf]

link...?

[TFC HSV]

thanks. that sucks after how many games? It does look good on Mo and Sanyang though. This is the unfortunate reality of being an mls club.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

link...?


its in yahoo sports...soccer in the artice title Obstacles remain in USA world cup path...

[werewolf]

its in yahoo sports...soccer in the artice title Obstacles remain in USA world cup path...

cool. Then you should have no issues posting the link.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

cool. Then you should have no issues posting the link.

cut me a break too manys letters to post, it goes on for ever,,,

[Pyeddo]

Really that hard for you to embed a link? :picard:


Edit** taadaaa

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=ApOhOGgSIxtk.draTbCbv10HNgU6?slug=ro-weekendreview090709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[wzhxvy]

lol...you make a decent contribution and then you do this ha ha...I should not be surprised mighty.

[Lucky Strike]

I'd like to see the link too, this is potentially big news.

[Nuvinho]

close the thread there is no link.

[werewolf]

right click - copy. right click - paste.

alternately. CTRL+C then CTRL+V

[SilverSamurai]

lol...you make a decent contribution and then you do this ha ha...I should not be surprised mighty.
Haha, only no link because he's not bashing DeRo. Afterall it's all DeRo's fault the team can's score... :rolleyes:

[prizby]

search google news, with his name and psv, nothing turned up

[Nuvinho]

search google news, with his name and psv, nothing turned up

did the same....got nothing!!


Edit: didn't see the link above.

[MrHawk]

There is a link above....................

And since none of you want to read the actual post..........here it is

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=ApOhOGgSIxtk.draTbCbv10HNgU6?slug=ro-weekendreview090709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[wzhxvy]

Link is now above...wow this is pretty big news. No wonder MLSE worship MO...

At the end of the day...PSV are known for taking young talent to resell in Europe so if we do sell him, we better get a healthy transfer or might as well keep him for a couple of years and sell him to a club who actually intends to keep him (hence pay a lot more for him)...

[Nuvinho]

Doesn't he need a work permit to play in Europe, and doesn't have enough international games to do so?

[TFC HSV]

damn it! no offense mighty tfc but I was really hoping to be able to call bullshit on this.

[werewolf]

Doesn't he need a work permit to play in Europe, and doesn't have enough international games to do so?

that is mostly an issue in the UK. Different countries have different, and usually more lenient, rules.

[Keyman]

This is just more evidence that it's extremely difficult to build and nurture a young team in Major League Soccer. Youngsters in MLS are nothing but monetary investments, at least in most cases, as you seldom see an impact player stay in the league from 18 until their prime. Stability, it seems, can only achieved through the acquisition of veteran, or career MLS players. Otherwise volatility will continue to plague your club.

[FluSH]

This is just more evidence that it's extremely difficult to build and nurture a young team in Major League Soccer. Youngsters in MLS are nothing but monetary investments, at least in most cases, as you seldom see an impact player stay in the league from 18 until their prime. Stability, it seems, can only achieved through the acquisition of veteran, or career MLS players. Otherwise volatility will continue to plague your club.


Yup...

I still think this guy should have stayed in the MLS:

http://footballfraternity.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/freddy-adu.jpg

[dclaro]

put a 20% transfer clause on him, if we do sell him

[Lucky Strike]

Link is now above...wow this is pretty big news. No wonder MLSE worship MO...

At the end of the day...PSV are known for taking young talent to resell in Europe so if we do sell him, we better get a healthy transfer or might as well keep him for a couple of years and sell him to a club who actually intends to keep him (hence pay a lot more for him)...

Not to jump the gun or anything, but if there is indeed significant interest down the road for Sanyang, the club could insist on a sell-on percentage.

For those who are unfamiliar, suppose Sanyang is sold for 500,000 Euros to PSV with a 15% sell-on, and then a couple years later for 2.2 million Euros (to invent numbers) to another club. At that time, TFC would get another 330,000 Euros, a nice bit of change to say the least. It's stuff like this that endears Mo to management so much, especially given how Sanyang was obtained on a free transfer.

[Lucky Strike]

put a 20% transfer clause on him, if we do sell him

ARGH, you beat me to it! :D

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

damn it! no offense mighty tfc but I was really hoping to be able to call bullshit on this.


none taking....its not good for the club...but if top clubs are looking at TFC players EDU, now Sanyang the club must be doing something right

[jloome]

none taking....its not good for the club...but if top clubs are looking at TFC players EDU, now Sanyang the club must be doing something right

No, the club isn't doing it right. The business is doing it right. And we already know that, as it's one of the most profitable in the league, even when just using MLSE's near-larcenously spun numbers.

I've said it before: Mo stays, we lose, because MLSE will settle for making millions from sell-ons. The real joke is that he's not finding these guys. LA actually had both players out first for tryouts but couldn't fit them under the cap -- and Sanyang was only just 17 at the time, with the reserve teams about to be eliminated.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

No, the club isn't doing it right. The business is doing it right. And we already know that, as it's one of the most profitable in the league, even when just using MLSE's near-larcenously spun numbers.

I've said it before: Mo stays, we lose, because MLSE will settle for making millions from sell-ons. The real joke is that he's not finding these guys. LA actually had both players out first for tryouts but couldn't fit them under the cap -- and Sanyang was only just 17 at the time, with the reserve teams about to be eliminated.

OK lets say Mo's gone after this year...and next year new manager new director of football operations we still suck then what? we suck now because we have players that are not 100% comitted to winning, and until that changes it will be same old stuff.

[prizby]

Doesn't he need a work permit to play in Europe, and doesn't have enough international games to do so?


I believe Gambia falls under the "Cotonou Agreement" which means, he would not need a work permit to play in Europe

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

? Too soon. Sanyang's at least a season away from being a force in the MLS much less ready for Europe.

[Chevy]

This is just more evidence that it's extremely difficult to build and nurture a young team in Major League Soccer. Youngsters in MLS are nothing but monetary investments, at least in most cases, as you seldom see an impact player stay in the league from 18 until their prime. Stability, it seems, can only achieved through the acquisition of veteran, or career MLS players. Otherwise volatility will continue to plague your club.


Yep, and this is the case for all the football leagues in the world save for four or five. The trick it to NOT give up developing players, but generate value from selling the ones you do develop. Then you can turn around and invest in older veterans (the salary cap hurts here).

[Yohan]

? Too soon. Sanyang's at least a season away from being a force in the MLS much less ready for Europe.
euro teams are willing to take young players (sanyang is just 18) as prospects and hope to develop them

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

euro teams are willing to take young players (sanyang is just 18) as prospects and hope to develop them

I don't disagree, but why want Sanyang and not Attakora? I'm just surprised that his couple of games, one great, one so-so at best, have rippled across the pond.

[Yohan]

I don't disagree, but why want Sanyang and not Attakora? I'm just surprised that his couple of games, one great, one so-so at best, have rippled across the pond.
nana is 20. a bit too old to consider as a prospect? seems in europe, if you're 20, you should be almost a polished player

Nana is a decent MLS defender with potential to turn into a good MLS defender, but I don't think we're looking at another Ryan Nelsen or Carlos Bocanegra here

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I don't disagree, but why want Sanyang and not Attakora? I'm just surprised that his couple of games, one great, one so-so at best, have rippled across the pond.


Attakora coule be being scouted..we only know of Sanyang because of the yahoo soccer item...Wouldnt want to lose him either..but were in a league that wont let us keep young players very long..and most young players will want to play in europe if they get the chance,

[Section 117]

Nana won't get scouted because he can't pass a ball accurately

[billyfly]

Whoopee, what say you?

[Chevy]

euro teams are willing to take young players (sanyang is just 18) as prospects and hope to develop them

Sure a euro team takes him at what, a transfer of $1 million and 200k a year in salary for a few years? If he works out great, if not no big deal - its the cost of doing business.

[andyc]

Nana won't get scouted because he can't pass a ball accurately

And he's pretty small for a defender in Europe. Don't get me wrong, he can certainly jump and seems to be very strong...

[SilverSamurai]

And he's pretty small for a defender in Europe. Don't get me wrong, he can certainly jump and seems to be very strong...

I wouldn't be surprised if Nana doesn't atleast give Europe a shot at some point. I'm not saying he's going to be a huge star in the EPL or La Liga, but maybe he'll find a mid league French, German or Scottish team.
Maybe I'm too optimistic but he can make more there. The cap really needs to go up.

[Whoop]

Haven't seen Sanyang's name in any of the Eredivisie sites I visit.

But if he becomes a farmer, so be it.

[S_D]

OK lets say Mo's gone after this year...and next year new manager new director of football operations we still suck then what? we suck now because we have players that are not 100% comitted to winning, and until that changes it will be same old stuff.

Sometimes it takes new management at the top to walk in and make the changes necessary to give the team a new mentality. In some cases the old manager refuses to admit their mistakes and make the changes, other times they think the squad is good enough as built and it is someone elses fault that they aren't performing.

If a new manager is brought in, it takes time to unwind all of the screw ups from the previous management. Look how long it is taking the Leafs to break the old culture and make a turn around.

[Beach_Red]

OK lets say Mo's gone after this year...and next year new manager new director of football operations we still suck then what? we suck now because we have players that are not 100% comitted to winning, and until that changes it will be same old stuff.


The next manager gets at least two years of blaming Mo while he gets rid of most of the players and their contracts and then probably another two years of his own to build a new team. He'll hire his own coach, of course (which is probably why Mo hasn't been allowed to either remove the 'interim' from Cummins or hire a new coach for any longer than till the end of this season - they don't want to be stuck with a coach's contract to pay when the next GM fires him).

Or maybe the next GM will only get a two year contract and then we'll get another GM.

It would be interesting to see how those interviews go, who lines up for the job.....

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

The next manager gets at least two years of blaming Mo while he gets rid of most of the players and their contracts and then probably another two years of his own to build a new team. He'll hire his own coach, of course (which is probably why Mo hasn't been allowed to either remove the 'interim' from Cummins or hire a new coach for any longer than till the end of this season - they don't want to be stuck with a coach's contract to pay when the next GM fires him).

Or maybe the next GM will only get a two year contract and then we'll get another GM.

It would be interesting to see how those interviews go, who lines up for the job.....


But will the supporters give 2 years of waitng for another rebulding job?
the patience of some supporters seem to be wearing thin now. Paul
Mariner's name keep getting mentioned, but i doubt he would leave Steve
Nicol and the New england Job..both are safe there.

[Beach_Red]

But will the supporters give 2 years of waitng for another rebulding job?
the patience of some supporters seem to be wearing thin now. Paul
Mariner's name keep getting mentioned, but i doubt he would leave Steve
Nicol and the New england Job..both are safe there.


If it looks like the guy is doing a good job, people will be patient. And if he's a guy with no baggage, a guy people like. Lots of people here would give Steve Nicol as long as he wants.

And, you know, after going 0-4 in Championship games at NE maybe it's time for a change of venue. Maybe Nicol would actually like to run a team playing to sold out houses.

And, you know, if there was enough $$$ thrown around, anything's possible....

[Cristiano14]

lol more $ for grass and a training field!!!!

... or to line MLSE's pockets...:facepalm:

[iansmcl]

Slap a huge sell on fee like people were talking about above and this isn't so bad... if the money were to actually be used. (What's the timeline on the mandatory use of those funds... if there is a timeline anyway?)

[Rudi]

I've said it before: Mo stays, we lose, because MLSE will settle for making millions from sell-ons.
Please explain how "MLSE" will make anything from any transfers.

MLS rules do not allow owners to pocket the cash. Surely you know this.

[CretanBull]

Gambia is a Commonwealth Country (which helped us get him here) so he could move to England, Scotland etc. pretty easily.

[CretanBull]

Please explain how "MLSE" will make anything from any transfers.

MLS rules do not allow owners to pocket the cash. Surely you know this.

Transfer fees are split 1/3 & 2/3 with the teams, there's restrictions on how that money can be spent, but it still benefits the MLSE. For example, if the Mo Edu money is spent on grass at BMO, that's money that doesn't come out of MLSE's pocket for an upgrade that they would otherwise have to pay for.

[Rudi]

Transfer fees are split 1/3 & 2/3 with the teams, there's restrictions on how that money can be spent, but it still benefits the MLSE. For example, if the Mo Edu money is spent on grass at BMO, that's money that doesn't come out of MLSE's pocket for an upgrade that they would otherwise have to pay for.
Right, but people seem to be claiming that these transfers will make MLSE rich.

The fact of the matter is that transfer fees can sit in MLS coffers in perpetuity if conditions are not met. The league has mechanisms to prevent teams from simply reaping the rewards of big money transfers. The cash needs to be plowed back into the team in some fashion, or it sits in an MLS account collecting interest.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Right, but people seem to be claiming that these transfers will make MLSE rich.

The fact of the matter is that transfer fees can sit in MLS coffers in perpetuity if conditions are not met. The league has mechanisms to prevent teams from simply reaping the rewards of big money transfers. The cash needs to be plowed back into the team in some fashion, or it sits in an MLS account collecting interest.

I really hate the fact that the league own the players..and pay there wages...

Let the teams take control of the that and if they develope a few stars in the process through scouting...and there Acadamies...and can make money off transfers to build a stronger team..then so be it..Still keep a CAP though! 5mill would be a great start!

cant see it ever happening though!

[skraks]

Gee what a surprise.

[ensco]

Right, but people seem to be claiming that these transfers will make MLSE rich.

The fact of the matter is that transfer fees can sit in MLS coffers in perpetuity if conditions are not met. The league has mechanisms to prevent teams from simply reaping the rewards of big money transfers. The cash needs to be plowed back into the team in some fashion, or it sits in an MLS account collecting interest.

Rudi can you point me to a link detailing this? I have raised this question before, but all anyone ever has is news stories that repeat this in general terms.

The league is practicing some razzle dazzle here. If you look on bigsoccer you can find pages of threads from NYRB fans who believe that the Altidore money just went into the already announced and already funded Harrison stadium project. They are pretty angry about it, as functonally it's pretty much the same thing as pocketing the cash.

[jloome]

Please explain how "MLSE" will make anything from any transfers.

MLS rules do not allow owners to pocket the cash. Surely you know this.

This is beneath you, Rudi. First of all, they get a third of the fee upfront. Second, they're a partner in the league. Whom do you think benefits if the league ever shows a profit? Whom do you think benefits from the various and sundry write-downs that ensure it never will.

Don't be naive. The money doesn't disappear into an MLS "pit."

[trane]

^ That is a great business angle, their franchise can make money, and yet while the league keeps on lossing overall, MLSE get write-downs. It is a win on both sides of the ledger. You cannot get many situations like that. I am not sure how it would work on the books, but on the surface it is agreat deal for the MLSE.

[jloome]

^ That is a great business angle, their franchise can make money, and yet while the league keeps on lossing overall, MLSE get write-downs. It is a win on both sides of the ledger. You cannot get many situations like that. I am not sure how it would work on the books, but on the surface it is agreat deal for the MLSE.

Actually trane it's an unfortunate reality of a lot of business in North America. Both U.S. LLC's and 'C' class companies offer a lot of creative opportunities to deliberately lose money or appear to, usually so that there doesn't have to be outward accountability.

In oil, they used to call it "dry holing." You buy some old oil wells that aren't tapped out, but are uneconomical to develop, hype the crap out of them, get buy-in from shareholders, private investors, etc, then use their money for whatever you want. As long as the books show losses, you don't have to return a dime, because it's the company that's liable, not the preferred share holders with the cushy salaries.

Lots of crooks in the U.S. rich or getting rich using this method.

Legitimate private companies do it a bit differently; instead of using the "money-loser" as a piggybank, they use it as a capital and operating write-down vehicle for related businesses. In sports, that's particularly easy to do.

Look at the LA Galaxy's first year with Beckham, when the team had the number on selling soccer jersey on the planet, claiming 350,000 sold (a likely profit in the tens of millions on its own) and yet it only made a $2.8M profit on paper. Lots of write-downs.

I'd also wonder why so few question that one of the top-10 most attended football leagues in the world can't make money.

[werewolf]

Gambia is a Commonwealth Country (which helped us get him here) so he could move to England, Scotland etc. pretty easily.

Its not exactly that easy.

[Lucky Strike]

Actually trane it's an unfortunate reality of a lot of business in North America. Both U.S. LLC's and 'C' class companies offer a lot of creative opportunities to deliberately lose money or appear to, usually so that there doesn't have to be outward accountability.

In oil, they used to call it "dry holing." You buy some old oil wells that aren't tapped out, but are uneconomical to develop, hype the crap out of them, get buy-in from shareholders, private investors, etc, then use their money for whatever you want. As long as the books show losses, you don't have to return a dime, because it's the company that's liable, not the preferred share holders with the cushy salaries.

Lots of crooks in the U.S. rich or getting rich using this method.

Legitimate private companies do it a bit differently; instead of using the "money-loser" as a piggybank, they use it as a capital and operating write-down vehicle for related businesses. In sports, that's particularly easy to do.

Look at the LA Galaxy's first year with Beckham, when the team had the number on selling soccer jersey on the planet, claiming 350,000 sold (a likely profit in the tens of millions on its own) and yet it only made a $2.8M profit on paper. Lots of write-downs.

I'd also wonder why so few question that one of the top-10 most attended football leagues in the world can't make money.

Off-topic alert: Didn't they make a movie using a concept like this, about a play or something?

[Davenport]

since im too lazy to look it up, whats the source?

HP


The best sauce.

[Sonny Cheeba]

why do you have a brazil crest in your avatar?

i hope it's because you're supporting their independence day.

[Shaughno]

Ol' Dirty Cheebs... whatchu talkin' bout?

[CretanBull]

Its not exactly that easy.

It's not automatic or anything, but it would be easier for him to move to a Common Wealth country vs. a non-Common Wealth country.....

[Sonny Cheeba]

Ol' Dirty Cheebs... whatchu talkin' bout?

mighty toronto FC has a brazil crest as an avatar.... i don't know if he's claiming to support them now, or if he's celebrating their independence as it was their independence day yesterday.

[Belfast_Boy]

it's good for him, but bad for us.
makes me wonder if the same thing will happen to Attakora, Gomez and Frei.

[Shaughno]

mighty toronto FC has a brazil crest as an avatar.... i don't know if he's claiming to support them now, or if he's celebrating their independence as it was their independence day yesterday.

Oh I have that cat on ignore... it makes things much easier to read through. :lol:

[werewolf]

It's not automatic or anything, but it would be easier for him to move to a Common Wealth country vs. a non-Common Wealth country.....

If he's not a regular on the national team...best of luck to him, he's going to need it.

[jloome]

If he's not a regular on the national team...best of luck to him, he's going to need it.

Scotland tends to be more lax because of the argument that he'll bring significant new quality to the league is easier to backup. HE's playing for the Gambia youth national team and starting in a pro league, so he might be seen as a significant emerging talent.

[trane]

mighty toronto FC has a brazil crest as an avatar.... i don't know if he's claiming to support them now, or if he's celebrating their independence as it was their independence day yesterday.

I doubt that he is aware that it was their independence day yesterday, to him independence day is a movie with the Fresh Prince.

[K1nG]

It will be a shame if we lose him.

I do understand why the MLS works the way it does, and I think for the most part it is great, however; I do feel there needs to be a system set in place so that the have teams like TFC can do more to entice young starlets to stay on in the league. Doing this will bear fruit as the league will gain credibility with respect to skill level and one day it will be us buying starlets from minnow countries such as Holland and France ultimately climaxing with Toronto FC being banned from making any signings for the next two transfer windows.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm not shook up if they sell on a young player for a larger amount than we could hope to keep him for. We need to be able to replace players of that ilk quicker. This is a sellers league and will be for some time.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I think it's a little heavy handed to call the MLS a sellers league. The league has history of not selling players as well, NE has turned down numerous approaches for Twellman and Joseph.

The league won't be a sellers league until there's more direct benefit to the teams in selling their talent.

[Shaughno]

^^ Misinformation there. NE didn't turn the offers down for Twellman, the MLS rejected the move.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

why do you have a brazil crest in your avatar?

i hope it's because you're supporting their independence day.


its the first national team i ever followed and celebrating they made the world cup again..was in England in 1970 when the world cup was on and the Brazilians were something special..still are.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I doubt that he is aware that it was their independence day yesterday, to him independence day is a movie with the Fresh Prince.


what the hells a fresh prince?

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think it's a little heavy handed to call the MLS a sellers league. The league has history of not selling players as well, NE has turned down numerous approaches for Twellman and Joseph.

The league won't be a sellers league until there's more direct benefit to the teams in selling their talent.

Why heavy handed? I don't see it as an insult? Look at the level of leagues I personally compare MLS to. Although the SPL and Superliga are not as even thoughout I'd compare their overall level to that of ours. Even the Eredivisie is considered a sellers league.

I think it's a reality that can improve quicker and to greater heights than other leagues mentioned.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

Why heavy handed? I don't see it as an insult? Look at the level of leagues I personally compare MLS to. Although the SPL and Superliga are not as even thoughout I'd compare their overall level to that of ours. Even the Eredivisie is considered a sellers league.

I think it's a reality that can improve quicker and to greater heights than other leagues mentioned.

I don't think it's insulting, I just think it's a little inaccurate in terms of the volume of players sold. I think the league should be a sellers league, moving players on bigger leagues will only serve to attract better quality players.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

^^ Misinformation there. NE didn't turn the offers down for Twellman, the MLS rejected the move.

True, but in terms of evaluating the league as a seller or non seller league, little difference. Additionally, on some levels the league and teams are not distinct.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^^Agreed. Although I think there seems to be an advantage with MLS selling for reputation instead of current form for their players a la Edu.

[werewolf]

its the first national team i ever followed and celebrating they made the world cup again..was in England in 1970 when the world cup was on and the Brazilians were something special..still are.

Mexico is closer, and then you would have got to see them in person.

[Section 117]

Ship him out if we get a half decent offer, the kid is a loose cannon out on the pitch he is very reckless and yes he is young but at the end of the day we Robo, JDG and Cronin who can play in that positon and they will all do a better job

[InTheCrowd]

Yes, if we get a decent offer. Damn it's Sanyang. I like him but he isn't amazing, we can always pick up a guy like him. Sell him on and make money to improve facilities. If we constantly ship out players and if we have good facilities quality players will want to come.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Mexico is closer, and then you would have got to see them in person.


true but all my relitives are in the UK not Mexcio

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Yes, if we get a decent offer. Damn it's Sanyang. I like him but he isn't amazing, we can always pick up a guy like him. Sell him on and make money to improve facilities. If we constantly ship out players and if we have good facilities quality players will want to come.


if we constantly ship out players wheres the stability? we cant keep shipping players out..we'd be the leafs FFS and who wants that?

[Sonny Cheeba]

true but all my relitives are in the UK not Mexcio

so shouldn't you support scotland, england or wales?

not brazil.

[trane]

^ Cheeba you make no sense.

[InTheCrowd]

if we constantly ship out players wheres the stability? we cant keep shipping players out..we'd be the leafs FFS and who wants that?

Let's be the north american Arsenal. Kidding, anyway I don't honestly see the problem in selling a couple of guys to Europe. Constantly selling within the league isn't going to help stability either. Who have we shipped out until now? We can sell more.