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ChrisLav
09-04-2009, 05:26 PM
Mods, please merge if you feel it should go into an old DeGuzman thread Dichio thread. But found this from about an hour ago on the footy blog:

http://my.thescore.com/footyblog/archive/2009/09/04/25128.aspx

(http://my.thescore.com/footyblog/archive/2009/09/03/25041.aspx)

ChrisLav
09-04-2009, 05:28 PM
Article saying that TFC will need to clear cap room again to make this work.

edmundo
09-04-2009, 05:28 PM
the link says nothing about jdg just the dichio situation

TFC USA
09-04-2009, 05:30 PM
Here you go.

http://my.thescore.com/footyblog/archive/2009/09/04/25128.aspx

MG42
09-04-2009, 05:35 PM
hmmm drop Dichio for the cap space for Deguzman? Maybe that's what's been going on?

The Pope
09-04-2009, 05:36 PM
so...who can we move?

James Oliphant
09-04-2009, 05:38 PM
the link says nothing about jdg just the dichio situation

Check the sidebar or TFC USA's link for the De Guzman story.

werewolf
09-04-2009, 05:40 PM
so...who can we move?

Dichio and Robinson...:(

TorCanSoc
09-04-2009, 05:43 PM
DeRo - JDG in the TFC midfield. End of last year, who even thought DeRo was a possibility. But this!? This is too much!

In MLSE speak, pay the man a million bucks to squeek in the playoffs. Not sure if its a short term gain. Becuase playoffs is only going to be mean one extra game for us.

It was the CCL that really brought in the extra home games.

Dare to dream, I think DeRo-JDG would tear this league apart.

Nodoubtguy
09-04-2009, 05:47 PM
bye bye Robbo???

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 05:47 PM
DeRo - JDG in the TFC midfield. End of last year, who even thought DeRo was a possibility. But this!? This is too much!

In MLSE speak, pay the man a million bucks to squeek in the playoffs. Not sure if its a short term gain. Becuase playoffs is only going to be mean one extra game for us.

It was the CCL that really brought in the extra home games.

Dare to dream, I think DeRo-JDG would tear this league apart.

Then can we go after Atiba??? :canada:

James Oliphant
09-04-2009, 05:47 PM
Hume next, please.

Kevvv
09-04-2009, 05:48 PM
This (the signing) would be the big news that Robbo twatted earlier

SamK
09-04-2009, 05:51 PM
If and when we sign him, when would de guzman be able to play for us? Immediately or maybe next weeks game? two weeks from now?

Kevvv
09-04-2009, 05:54 PM
MoJo needs to leave the Moxies patio to fax the papers to NY; the league office needs to approve, and Garber's on a yacht somewhere already, so realistically, next week at the very earliest.

zeelaw
09-04-2009, 05:54 PM
Wow....

FluSH
09-04-2009, 05:55 PM
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

This cannot be.... I am telling you this cannot be...

Baggio2TFC
09-04-2009, 05:59 PM
I'll beleive it when I see it! Would be great though. Although, I hope TFC lowered the price a little see as JDG had to come crawling back??!!

FluSH
09-04-2009, 06:06 PM
I've had info from a very good source that he was signing elsewhere... and this was not too long ago.. 5 days ago in fact!!!!

Bluenose13
09-04-2009, 06:07 PM
I've had info from a very good source that he was signing elsewhere... and this was not too long ago.. 5 days ago in fact!!!!Hmmm......:D

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-04-2009, 06:09 PM
after over a week over negative doom and gloom around the club this sounds real positive..can TFC play over the salary cap to sign him then trade off players to fit within the cap? what penalty would the league invoke for playing over the cap? Who to give up to help make room...
Barrett,Gala,Dichio? one thing for sure season seats will be going up if this and the grass for next season happens.:scarf:

MFG1
09-04-2009, 06:09 PM
Who cares , not me, especially under these conditions, whats that line, Once bitten twice shy? Especially under the instance that he might have only agreed since nothing happened in Europe. And if you are reading this FO and think geez we cant please them one way or another, you had ample time to prevent the feelings that most of us feel. Dont kid yourself, This is going to take a bit more than a piece of gum called JDG to fix the mess you are creating. Slap the band aids on boys!!!!!

Lucky Strike
09-04-2009, 06:11 PM
WTF?

Was Mo just keeping this ace in the hole to distract us when the going got tough in relation to Dichio and other issues?

It won't work, but this is completely awesome!

Sadly if this is true, this probably means Robinson is done if JDG is going to be used as a DM, rather than the box-to-box role he typically plays with the CMNT. If he's asked to play the latter role, who is likely going? Still Robinson or someone else?

P.S. While I'm quick to say Robbo is likely gone, I (like many others) would say goodbye with a heavy heart because of his dedication and professionalism and he's been here since day 1. But like many others, I too say the steep decline in his play and in terms of making the team better, it would be acceptable to me.

Kevvv
09-04-2009, 06:12 PM
I've had info from a very good source that he was signing elsewhere... and this was not too long ago.. 5 days ago in fact!!!!


So did Sky Sports

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11842_5494990,00.html

Kevvv
09-04-2009, 06:17 PM
Was Mo just keeping this ace in the hole to distract us when the going got tough in relation to Dichio and other issues?


JDG was never off the table for Mo, JDG himself was determined to play in Europe. Looks like that isn't happening, the money just isn't there for him I'd guess. This might tie-in to the Dichio situation if they were sitting him to prevent injuries while they sought a buyer, but that would pre-suppose that they expected JDG would come calling.


But if they need to clear cap space, which player is expensive and worth something to other teams? Is there any doubt?

billygrieveuk
09-04-2009, 06:23 PM
i agree
Hume next, please.

Lucky Strike
09-04-2009, 06:31 PM
Hume next, please.

As a follower of Barnsley, I can tell you Hume shouldn't be a target right now. He hasn't proven he can perform to the same level as before his horrific injury.

ArmenJBX
09-04-2009, 06:37 PM
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!! !!!!!!!

Bender
09-04-2009, 06:38 PM
This is nice. :grouphug:

ArmenJBX
09-04-2009, 06:41 PM
Made my freaking day. I don't care what the article says, I'm getting my De Guzman shirt. :D :D :D :D :D

edmundo
09-04-2009, 06:47 PM
something is defo up with jdg, i msgd him on facebook earlier in the week to try to find out what was up with his club situation and now all of a sudden i notice he removed the function for friends to leave msgs on his wall, combined with todays news something is going down no doubt

Oldtimer
09-04-2009, 06:53 PM
This can only mean one thing:

New seats are going in at BMO Field next year, and ML$E needs to sell those seats.

andyc
09-04-2009, 06:59 PM
I really hope that this is a long term deal - not just a stop gap to buy JDG time to the next transfer window. I know that he's a free agent and can be signed anytime but the reality is that all the clubs have their squads locked in until January...

ArmenJBX
09-04-2009, 07:01 PM
Please Mo, gimme the news we've all been waiting for. JDG on a 3 year contract, DP, and expansion for 30,000 seats.

prizby
09-04-2009, 07:09 PM
So did Sky Sports

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11842_5494990,00.html

that was before Dani Jarque

Oldtimer
09-04-2009, 07:09 PM
Please Mo, gimme the news we've all been waiting for. JDG on a 3 year contract, DP, and expansion for 30,000 seats.

... and real grass! :flare:

Lucky Strike
09-04-2009, 07:10 PM
Please Mo, gimme the news we've all been waiting for. JDG on a 3 year contract, DP, and expansion for 30,000 seats.

BMO 2.0? Oh yeah, I went there. :D

So as an aside on the JDG topic, a lot of people seem to not be using their tickets to go to matches this year, resulting in empty seats. I'm just hoping it's scalpers who bought way too many tickets and couldn't unload them.

S_D
09-04-2009, 07:13 PM
now just think of the predicament Mo is in if this is true.

1) If we know it, it means all the other GM's know it. Mo of course will try to unload the older higher priced talent but if you are a GM, and knowing that Mo needs to unload a player to sign his DP, they are going to want a good player with a lot of upside, not some old guy.

2) If you are a GM that is in contention for the last few playoff spots, are you going to make a deal with TFC to make it easier for them to make the playoffs with a DP and possibly push your team out? Not likely.

3) If you are a non contending team who is out of it, are you going to be willing to trade for an older guy when you have the chance to see how some of your younger guys do? Not likely.

4) Mo is going to want draft picks back so there isn't any additional cost to the salary cap unless a high cost player is unloaded.

Now of course this is all conjecture based on the presumption that GM's aren't idiots and the head office isn't going to get involved and try and force/influence a trade.

My bet: If we see a trade, we either aren't going to get much in return such as a low round draft pick if it is one of the more expensive older guys or one of our young guys is going to get shipped out.

And just off of the cuff: L.A. still owes us for taking Ruiz off of their hands so they could sign their left mid via allocation. Time to call in the favour.

ArmenJBX
09-04-2009, 07:13 PM
I wanna see a five million dollar stadium upgrade. No more gaps between the stands, no more beer gardens...


A Fortress has no gaps.

Cashcleaner
09-04-2009, 07:17 PM
Hume next, please.

Agreed. Thank-you. :canada:

Keyman
09-04-2009, 07:23 PM
De Guzman doesn't put us over the top, nor does he make us a substantially improved team. He's a wonderful player, yes, but this signing doesn't address our needs. If we were rebuilding, De Guzman would be a perfect centrepiece, but we're in the playoff hunt right now.

Vince Whirlwind
09-04-2009, 07:25 PM
I'm thinking Guevera would fetch the most interest as far as veterans go...maybe some team looking for an extra bit of "oomph" for their playoff drive.

The man to ship out would be Robbo, but none too sure there'd be a significant amount of interest.

SilverSamurai
09-04-2009, 07:36 PM
This would be awesome if it happens. Still for his sake and for the sake of the CMNT, hopefully he stays in Europe. But it would be nice to not have an old DP though.
However this doesn't mean that we should forget or let TFC treat Danny like crap. he deserves better.

Redpunkfiddle
09-04-2009, 07:37 PM
De Guzman doesn't put us over the top, nor does he make us a substantially improved team. He's a wonderful player, yes, but this signing doesn't address our needs. If we were rebuilding, De Guzman would be a perfect centrepiece, but we're in the playoff hunt right now.

It's not an obvious puzzle that fits together with a crowded midfield. But the quality he brings in terms of control in the centre is exciting to imagine. The MNT struggled fitting some of these pieces together. Can the guys who map out the formations please get out their pens?

SilverSamurai
09-04-2009, 07:41 PM
It's not an obvious puzzle that fits together with a crowded midfield. But the quality he brings in terms of control in the centre is exciting to imagine. The MNT struggled fitting some of these pieces together. Can the guys who map out the formations please get out their pens?
Gerba would be the likely striker again and DeRo as the AM.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-04-2009, 07:47 PM
jezzzzzus......Following TFC is like a YO YO!!! :)

Stryker
09-04-2009, 07:50 PM
Players most likely to be moved:

Guevara - high salary, twilight of career
Barrett - high salary, underachiever
Robbo - high salary, twilight of career
Brennen - high salary, twilight of career
Vitti - high salary, underachiever

Throw a dart and see what sticks.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-04-2009, 07:50 PM
hmmm drop Dichio for the cap space for Deguzman? Maybe that's what's been going on?

i really dont think dropping Dichio is the issue here....he's been saying this is his last year anyway...IF it makes room for JDG then im all for it!!!!.....

MY whole issue would be if they just dump dichio....and MLSE does not offer him a JOB with the organization....thats where most people have the issues regarding the status of danny!

Stryker
09-04-2009, 07:52 PM
Oh, and Kristen Jack has broken the big TFC story yet again.
I freakin love that guy!

icecoldbeer
09-04-2009, 07:56 PM
If he signs as DP, how much cap would we have to clear? Not the full $400k because its well over the half way mark of the season...this league and its rules, don't know how it will work...

Keyman
09-04-2009, 07:59 PM
If he signs as DP, how much cap would we have to clear? Not the full $400k because its well over the half way mark of the season...this league and its rules, don't know how it will work...

We would have to clear $200k

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 08:01 PM
IF THIS IS TRUE, this information getting out is a problem. We need cap space. Mo has to deal people to make cap space. Now everybody knows that we need cap space. Other MLS teams can screw us.

Ya, we'll take that Welsh git's salary off your hands but we want Sanyang too!!!!

So, Mo's job is now much more difficult than it was.

Also, the players who should be concentrating on playing soccer now have to be worried that Mo is going to deal them this weekend.

We didn't need that distraction.

If someone at TFC leaked this info to Jack, they should be fired ... and if it was a player, he should be exposed and benched or if possible, released! This leak was foolish and counter-productive.

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 08:05 PM
Players most likely to be moved:

Guevara - high salary, twilight of career
Barrett - high salary, underachiever
Robbo - high salary, twilight of career
Brennen - high salary, twilight of career
Vitti - high salary, underachiever

Throw a dart and see what sticks.

... and in otherwords, we'll have to bribe someone to take them as we can't give them allocations as we need cap space, we may have to bribe them with other players, young players.

Who the hell leaked this? This is not helpful (as exciting as it obviously is!).

TFCtoMUFC
09-04-2009, 08:07 PM
... and in otherwords, we'll have to bribe someone to take them as we can't give them allocations as we need cap space, we may have to bribe them with other players, young players.

Who the hell leaked this? This is not helpful (as exciting as it obviously is!).

Vitti should be the one to go IMHO.

boban
09-04-2009, 08:09 PM
I wanna see a five million dollar stadium upgrade. No more gaps between the stands, no more beer gardens...


A Fortress has no gaps.
WTF is a $5 mil upgrade? It get you a pot to piss in. That's about it.

FluSH
09-04-2009, 08:10 PM
IF THIS IS TRUE, this information getting out is a problem. We need cap space. Mo has to deal people to make cap space. Now everybody knows that we need cap space. Other MLS teams can screw us.

Ya, we'll take that Welsh git's salary off your hands but we want Sanyang too!!!!

So, Mo's job is now much more difficult than it was.

Also, the players who should be concentrating on playing soccer now have to be worried that Mo is going to deal them this weekend.

We didn't need that distraction.

If someone at TFC leaked this info to Jack, they should be fired ... and if it was a player, he should be exposed and benched or if possible, released! This leak was foolish and counter-productive.


There is no way a TFC player would have this info... absolutely can't see that happening...

In fact, I'm still not believing this info... it's surreal...

andyc
09-04-2009, 08:11 PM
I bet the SSH renewals go out on Tuesday!! lol!

FluSH
09-04-2009, 08:12 PM
... and in otherwords, we'll have to bribe someone to take them as we can't give them allocations as we need cap space, we may have to bribe them with other players, young players.

Who the hell leaked this? This is not helpful (as exciting as it obviously is!).

I can confirm that Mo Johnston is actively shopping players to other club's within the MLS in a desperate attempt to clear cap room for the Canadian international, who has decided that now is the right time to play with his hometown club.

The above is gotta be the path of the leak...

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 08:13 PM
There is no way a TFC player would have this info... absolutely can't see that happening...

In fact, I'm still not believing this info... it's surreal...

Ya, it is.

FluSH
09-04-2009, 08:14 PM
Ya, it is.

Well unless Mo Johnston has verbally told X player he is going to be moved for JDG... and maybe asked him which city he would like to go to...

ArmenJBX
09-04-2009, 08:16 PM
WTF is a $5 mil upgrade? It get you a pot to piss in. That's about it.

My bad, I don't know the exact figure, whether it be 5 or 50. Just get those gaps closed and get more seats in the north.

redcard
09-04-2009, 08:37 PM
good news...but this also means a significant increase in seasons tickets during the renewal window...get ready to pay for you grass and dp people!

werewolf
09-04-2009, 08:40 PM
good news...but this also means a significant increase in seasons tickets during the renewal window...get ready to pay for you grass and dp people!

Fact. :rofl:

If prices were going up at the previous rate for a last place team, imagine what its going to be next year with a semi-competitive team, high payroll, and stadium upgrades.

LucaGol
09-04-2009, 08:44 PM
----------------- Frei
Wynne --- Gomez --- Serioux --- Brennan
------------- De Guzman
---- Cronin --------------- Sanyang
------------- Guevara
-------- De Rosario
--------------------- Gerba


2009 Playoffs ... book it.

Redpunkfiddle
09-04-2009, 08:55 PM
----------------- Frei
Wynne --- Gomez --- Serioux --- Brennan
------------- De Guzman
---- Cronin --------------- Sanyang
------------- Guevara
-------- De Rosario
--------------------- Gerba


2009 Playoffs ... book it.

Dunno. De Guzman played DM in Spain, but here he could be used more widely/forwardly... I think we have seen that Cronin can be solid on the outside midfield, but Sanyang?

Of course, much of this depends on who we unload.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-04-2009, 08:55 PM
----------------- Frei
Wynne --- Gomez --- Serioux --- Brennan
------------- De Guzman
---- Cronin --------------- Sanyang
------------- Guevara
-------- De Rosario
--------------------- Gerba


2009 Playoffs ... book it.

looks good !:drinking:

Somehow..i want NANA in there though..;)

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-04-2009, 08:58 PM
Dunno. De Guzman played DM in Spain, but here he could be used more widely/forwardly... I think we have seen that Cronin can be solid on the outside midfield, but Sanyang?

Of course, much of this depends on who we unload.

have to agree....I like him playing the role he plays with CANADA...a little more on the offence.....It gona be hard to get this done though.....hopefully mo can swing a deal!

Fushida
09-04-2009, 09:01 PM
not gonna happen but i'd do something crazy like this: (which i think puts out our POTENTIAL best XI)

-------------------------Frei---------------------------
-----------Serioux------Nana------Gomez--------------
---Wynne--------------Sanyang/Cronin---------------Brennan-
-----------------Cronin/Guevara----------JDG------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
-----------------DeRo-------Gerba-----------------------

With Sanyang/Cronin open to move up if needed. I think with the speed of Gomez/Nana at the back we can hold with 2 wingbacks going forward. Sanyang/Cronin/JDG are all energetic players who can break up plays. Of course JDG should be considered a ball distributor... and hopefully might work well with Guevara. DeRo and Gerba are our two best options up front now IMO.

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 09:14 PM
I can confirm that Mo Johnston is actively shopping players to other club's within the MLS in a desperate attempt to clear cap room for the Canadian international, who has decided that now is the right time to play with his hometown club.

The above is gotta be the path of the leak...

Mo leaking this to Kristian himself? No, I don't think so.

Dave67
09-04-2009, 09:16 PM
Question: Can we just drop Vitti seeing as he is on loan. Then just sign him back next season as he would be out of contract anyway? or is there more to it?

James Oliphant
09-04-2009, 09:20 PM
Question: Can we just drop Vitti seeing as he is on loan. Then just sign him back next season as he would be out of contract anyway? or is there more to it?

My understanding is that Vitti's loan is guaranteed for this season.

edmundo
09-04-2009, 09:20 PM
just drop barrett this is a no brainer

Lucky Strike
09-04-2009, 09:24 PM
----------------- Frei
Wynne --- Gomez --- Serioux --- Brennan
------------- De Guzman
---- Cronin --------------- Sanyang
------------- Guevara
-------- De Rosario
--------------------- Gerba


2009 Playoffs ... book it.

3-5-2 while in possession; changing to a 5-3-2 when not in possession.

-----------DeRosario - Gerba
----Brennan - Cronin - De Guzman - Wynne
------------------Sanyang
---------Gomez - Serioux - Attakora
--------------------Frei

Bench:

Edwards (GK)
Garcia (D C)
Robinson (DM)
Guevara (M/AM C)
Vitti (M/AM C)
Barrett (M LR, ST)
Dichio (F C)

Unselected:

Fellinga
Ibrahim
White
Gala

Tactical Notes:

- DeRosario plays a bit withdrawn compared to Gerba.
- DeGuzman is utilized as a box-to-box guy linking the play from front to back as he does with the CMNT.
- Sanyang's ONLY job is to break up plays and make the easy/short pass to another midfielder.
- The backline is very much stay-at-home.
- A wide or narrow game can be played as necessary, since this formation gives us decent width.

Justifications (for things that aren't self evident - like DeRosario should start):

- The formation itself is very flexible in terms of attacking and defending.
- A packed midfield makes use of TFC's depth at these positions.
- Cronin's place could easily be taken by Vitti.
- But: Vitti and Guevara are on the bench because I think the focus should be on DeGuzman having possession going forward. Having more than one player who "demands" the ball (or at least who should be the primary possessor of the ball) in the midfield means that those players aren't used to their full potential. It's a duplication of tasks, to use a bureaucratic term. That and Guevara has been slacking lately.
- Brennan and Wynne get the nod on the wings since I find them to be the most effective. Brennan is a natural winger and Wynne, once freed of defensive responsibilities, becomes a significant threat going forward. Also, when not in possession, they act as wingbacks given their significant experience at defending.
- The bench is comprised of the best available players, who also happen to cover every position on the pitch, either directly or indirectly.

What say you guys?

kitchener-TFC
09-04-2009, 09:25 PM
Although, I hope TFC lowered the price a little see as JDG had to come crawling back??!!
I hope so too.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-04-2009, 09:28 PM
just drop barrett this is a no brainer


It has to be a trade..you just cant drop him and free up cap space....

correct?

S_D
09-04-2009, 09:29 PM
You can't just drop players as their salaries are guarunteed. Gotta trade them. While I agree Barrett is a good choice, who in their right mind is going to take Barrett at his salary and production? In addition, I think he is struggling and frustrated right now, and I have to wonder if a club would be willing to take the risk.

As Blizzard and I have stated, just watch. Mo has the potential here to get screwed out of one of the youthful bright lights of this team. While JDG is a nice addition, his stalling combined with Mo's persistance has potentially screwed the club.

And after looking at your proposed lineups guys, I don't see anyone taking into account who is going to be traded. Nobody is going to take the junk off our team. They are going to want some quality since we are down the home stretch.

Edit: My bet, with the emergence of Nana and Serioux's ability to cover RB, I can see Wynne being the odd man out.

spezz44
09-04-2009, 09:29 PM
It has to be a trade..you just cant drop him and free up cap space....

correct?


Perhaps they can, look at the sutton situation.

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 09:30 PM
YEEEHAAW....I knew this was bound to happen. I said it so many times...money talks and BS walks at the end...there was no way JDG was going to get anything close in Europe, and here we are. I love JDG and would be so happy with him at TFC. BUT WE STILL NEED DICHIO AS PART OF THE ORGANIZATION.

KRO
09-04-2009, 09:34 PM
Cream your jeans guys but this will finally kill our play-off hopes. With 7 games to go this will do nothing but disrupt us and he'll be gone as soon as he finds a European team who's interested.

brad
09-04-2009, 09:39 PM
I think it will be Danny or Wynne.

Also, I have a feeling that if this is going down, and Mo can't get anyone to take a player off our hands, the league will step in, as they did with McBride.

Maybe if we are lucky we can give Barrett back to Chicago.

brad
09-04-2009, 09:41 PM
Big question I have, is he coming for the long term, or is he coming for the season then trying to head back to Europe in January.

If it's not for the long term, I have a big problem with shipping players out for a short term gain, unless we are unloading crap. I have a feeling we're going to have to bleed for this one.

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 09:41 PM
Perhaps they can, look at the sutton situation.

There is a deadline within the season regarding contracts and the ability to release somebody. We've long passed that.

Sutton was released well before that date.

brad
09-04-2009, 09:45 PM
De Guzman doesn't put us over the top, nor does he make us a substantially improved team. He's a wonderful player, yes, but this signing doesn't address our needs. If we were rebuilding, De Guzman would be a perfect centrepiece, but we're in the playoff hunt right now.

I think he does substantially improve our team, in that he gives a player that can completely control the middle of the park. That is something we sorely lack. He also provides transition through the midfield that we do not have.

These are major reasons we always get thumped on the road, why we resort to dumping long balls, and why we can't kill a game off.

However, in the playoff hunt, we need to remember, as good as he is, he has not played much competitive football, and he will take time to settle with a new team. This is far from a golden ticket to the playoffs.

Chevy
09-04-2009, 09:45 PM
Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but why would JDG sign on for a 7-game season (50-50 chance of more)? Would he simply sit out the winter or could we loan him to a Euro club like Beckham?

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 09:45 PM
This is for the long term...at least all of next season, there is no way they bring him now and have him walk away next year...no way...

S_D
09-04-2009, 09:46 PM
the only way you can drop a player now is if the team and the player agreed to a non guarunteed contract.

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 09:46 PM
Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but why would JDG sign on for a 7-game season (50-50 chance of more)? Would he simply sit out the winter or could we loan him to a Euro club like Beckham?


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

brad
09-04-2009, 09:50 PM
Sorry to play devil's advocate here, but why would JDG sign on for a 7-game season (50-50 chance of more)? Would he simply sit out the winter or could we loan him to a Euro club like Beckham?

They sign him to a short deal for a big chunk of money.

-JDG gets to keep his match fitness up.
-JDG makes a chunk of change
-JDG can still shop himself around in January as a free agent.

-MLSE get to charge extra for seasons renewals.
-MLSE better chance of a playoff run, see above.
-MLSE sells a pile of jerseys.
-MLSE avoid a major PR blunder while screwing Danny, cause everyone is over the moon with JDG.

What I wonder is if the league would let that fly.

billyfly
09-04-2009, 09:50 PM
Hold on, so is this for real?

brad
09-04-2009, 09:51 PM
Hold on, so is this for real?

Sounds like it. Now let me throw something out there - maybe he wants a TFC contract back on the table to leverage something better in Germany or Holland.

When he signs on the dotted line I'll believe it.

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 09:52 PM
They sign him to a short deal for a big chunk of money.

-JDG gets to keep his match fitness up.
-JDG makes a chunk of change
-JDG can still shop himself around in January as a free agent.

-MLSE get to charge extra for seasons renewals.
-MLSE better chance of a playoff run, see above.
-MLSE sells a pile of jerseys.
-MLSE avoid a major PR blunder while screwing Danny, cause everyone is over the moon with JDG.

What I wonder is if the league would let that fly.


Brad, there is no way. You think TFC would sign him now, cause all this commotion, get the fans all pumped up, sell season tickets based on him being here next year and then sell him in January or even worse have him walk away...no way...I mean even TFC FO is above that.

billyfly
09-04-2009, 09:53 PM
That's how I feel. Call me when its done. I've done the speculation thing over how many threads?!

LucaGol
09-04-2009, 09:54 PM
3-5-2 while in possession; changing to a 5-3-2 when not in possession.

-----------DeRosario - Gerba
----Brennan - Cronin - De Guzman - Wynne
------------------Sanyang
---------Gomez - Serioux - Attakora
--------------------Frei

Bench:

Edwards (GK)
Garcia (D C)
Robinson (DM)
Guevara (M/AM C)
Vitti (M/AM C)
Barrett (M LR, ST)
Dichio (F C)

Unselected:

Fellinga
Ibrahim
White
Gala

Tactical Notes:

- DeRosario plays a bit withdrawn compared to Gerba.
- DeGuzman is utilized as a box-to-box guy linking the play from front to back as he does with the CMNT.
- Sanyang's ONLY job is to break up plays and make the easy/short pass to another midfielder.
- The backline is very much stay-at-home.
- A wide or narrow game can be played as necessary, since this formation gives us decent width.

Justifications (for things that aren't self evident - like DeRosario should start):

- The formation itself is very flexible in terms of attacking and defending.
- A packed midfield makes use of TFC's depth at these positions.
- Cronin's place could easily be taken by Vitti.
- But: Vitti and Guevara are on the bench because I think the focus should be on DeGuzman having possession going forward. Having more than one player who "demands" the ball (or at least who should be the primary possessor of the ball) in the midfield means that those players aren't used to their full potential. It's a duplication of tasks, to use a bureaucratic term. That and Guevara has been slacking lately.
- Brennan and Wynne get the nod on the wings since I find them to be the most effective. Brennan is a natural winger and Wynne, once freed of defensive responsibilities, becomes a significant threat going forward. Also, when not in possession, they act as wingbacks given their significant experience at defending.
- The bench is comprised of the best available players, who also happen to cover every position on the pitch, either directly or indirectly.

What say you guys?

+1

I forgot about Attakora ... not sure how, seeing as he's been our best player the last 6-8 games.

3-5-2 suits our team the best right now.

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 09:54 PM
You can't just drop players as their salaries are guarunteed. Gotta trade them. While I agree Barrett is a good choice, who in their right mind is going to take Barrett at his salary and production? In addition, I think he is struggling and frustrated right now, and I have to wonder if a club would be willing to take the risk.

As Blizzard and I have stated, just watch. Mo has the potential here to get screwed out of one of the youthful bright lights of this team. While JDG is a nice addition, his stalling combined with Mo's persistance has potentially screwed the club.

And after looking at your proposed lineups guys, I don't see anyone taking into account who is going to be traded. Nobody is going to take the junk off our team. They are going to want some quality since we are down the home stretch.

Edit: My bet, with the emergence of Nana and Serioux's ability to cover RB, I can see Wynne being the odd man out.

Further to this revelation by Kristian Jack, I can't help wishing that he'd kept this info to himself for just a little while. It's the eve of a huge game and now we've got a group of players who don't know what the hell is going on.

I totally understand that he is doing his job but at the same time, the leak of this information potentially destroys what might have been a huge turning point in the development of TFC.

Someone in the know has leaked this info to Jack but one has to wonder for what purpose?

There's a reason contract negotiations and trade talks are are conducted in secret. This information becoming public now does real damage to our hopes of actually getting JDG.

It's almost as if someone would rather this deal didn't happen! This sucks!

prizby
09-04-2009, 09:55 PM
i hear ebi smolarek is a free agent!

Nuvinho
09-04-2009, 09:56 PM
I think that if they want to move a big name, they will have to give a young guy as well......Ibby?

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 09:58 PM
the only way you can drop a player now is if the team and the player agreed to a non guarunteed contract.

... or perhaps a straight buy out as with Rohan. He wouldn't agree to his release until MoJo came through for him.

brad
09-04-2009, 10:01 PM
Brad, there is no way. You think TFC would sign him now, cause all this commotion, get the fans all pumped up, sell season tickets based on him being here next year and then sell him in January or even worse have him walk away...no way...I mean even TFC FO is above that.

Probably not, but would you have thought they would screw over a cult hero like Danny?

Sonny Cheeba
09-04-2009, 10:02 PM
why does he want to play for TFC? he gets frustrated enough playing for canada.

if he does come, i hope his attitude changes. i think he should stay in europe.

S_D
09-04-2009, 10:03 PM
... or perhaps a straight buy out as with Rohan. He wouldn't agree to his release MoJo came through for him.

We never found out if a buyout counted against the cap. I assume it does.

But the problem here is why would anyone agree to be bought out, and really how much would that save? I can see it perhaps if a player has another gig lined up, but if he only has to stick around for 7 more games and make his full salary, why would he accept less?

prizby
09-04-2009, 10:03 PM
I think that if they want to move a big name, they will have to give a young guy as well......Ibby?

its all about the money, so who is getting paid the most

brad
09-04-2009, 10:04 PM
Someone in the know has leaked this info to Jack but one has to wonder for what purpose?

There's a reason contract negotiations and trade talks are are conducted in secret. This information becoming public now does real damage to our hopes of actually getting JDG.

It's almost as if someone would rather this deal didn't happen! This sucks!

Interesting, I hadn't thought about what Blizzard posted when I posted my comment below.


Sounds like it. Now let me throw something out there - maybe he wants a TFC contract back on the table to leverage something better in Germany or Holland.

When he signs on the dotted line I'll believe it.

RPB73
09-04-2009, 10:04 PM
There is no doubt that Barrett is a no brainer, but who will take him off our hands. If I was Mo the first team I would contact is Houston. I would offer them Barrett who makes $202 500 and Wynne who makes $159 500 and in return I would want Hainault who makes $112 125. This would not only clear cap room for JDG but would tremendously strengthen our back 4. If they insisted on a player like Sanyang I would be inclined to move him as well for a 2nd round pick in the deal. Don't get me wrong he has impressed in the games he has played but a holding midfielder isn't that hard to find.

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 10:05 PM
Probably not, but would you have thought they would screw over a cult hero like Danny?

Good point but I am not giving up on that one...

However I think, at best, 2 of the 3 below will happen but not all 3:

1. We sign JDG
2. We make the playoffs
3. We hire DD in the organization

I say the above because I think CC will be retained if we make the playoffs and will be out the door if we dont...

S_D
09-04-2009, 10:05 PM
Ibby won't go. He came here to be closer to his family. If Mo did this his name would be shit in the league.

I will stick with Wynne as he has value in the league and his position is covered. Mo could get a first rounder and his favourite player Mr. Allocation Cash.

James17930
09-04-2009, 10:05 PM
why does he want to play for TFC? he gets frustrated enough playing for canada.

if he does come, i hope his attitude changes. i think he should stay in europe.

But he couldn't land a deal.

We're his only option. We're the ugly girl he's going to take to the prom because all the hot ones were unavailable.

Let's just hope he gets drunk enough to get over our ugliness and puts out.

Nuvinho
09-04-2009, 10:05 PM
its all about the money, so who is getting paid the most

If teams know that Mo wants to unload a big salary guy, they will ask for a sweetner...ie. a younger player......kinda like how San Jose unloaded Garcia on us, when we after Gerba probably.

Sonny Cheeba
09-04-2009, 10:07 PM
But he couldn't land a deal.

We're his only option. We're the ugly girl he's going to take to the prom because all the hot one's were unavailable.

Let's just hope he gets drunk enough to get over our ugliness and puts out.

i don't want him here, not for that reason, and i think he's too good to play here right now.

watch him play for canada when they're losing, or when a pass is fucked up, dude gets pissed and shows it.

he could land a deal if he wasn't being so picky.

S_D
09-04-2009, 10:08 PM
There is no doubt that Barrett is a no brainer, but who will take him off our hands. If I was Mo the first team I would contact is Houston. I would offer them Barrett who makes $202 500 and Wynne who makes $159 500 and in return I would want Hainault who makes $112 125. This would not only clear cap room for JDG but would tremendously strengthen our back 4. If they insisted on a player like Sanyang I would be inclined to move him as well for a 2nd round pick in the deal. Don't get me wrong he has impressed in the games he has played but a holding midfielder isn't that hard to find.

Houston has a DP now. I doubt they have enough space. And the team isn't stupid, no way they take barrett.

Nuvinho
09-04-2009, 10:10 PM
Trading partner - Dallas?

can you imagine Dallas with Cunny and Barrett...yikes!!

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 10:16 PM
WTF is going on...I just got down to Niagara for the tourney...played a little footy down here tonight...and I come on the boards and read this........

Favourite player on the planet..Please Please Please let this be true....but I don't like thinking about who has to get moved to make this happen.....

billyfly
09-04-2009, 10:17 PM
WTF is going on...I just got down to Niagara for the tourney...played a little footy down here tonight...and I come on the boards and read this........

Favourite player on the planet..Please Please Please let this be true....but I don't like thinking about who has to get moved to make this happen.....

How many times has this happened to me...?:D

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 10:19 PM
How many times has this happened to me...?:D

And I thought the excitement of my day was going to be the air show planes flying through downtown...guess I was wrong!

TFCtoMUFC
09-04-2009, 10:23 PM
What if he lured his brother to TFC? In all seriousness I think this is a good move if it goes through, the guy to go should be Vitti as JDG replaces him.

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 10:23 PM
Interesting, I hadn't thought about what Blizzard posted when I posted my comment below.

I really don't think JDG is trying to kill this deal. Heck, he just agreed to it.

That said, someone just forwarded me a Twitter today by one CarlRobinson33 which reads: I wonder what today holds in store. No doubt there will be a suprise or two!!

https://twitter.com/CarlRobinson33

It appears that perhaps Carl knew something was up. Carl appears on The Footy Show doesn't he?

Hmmm. I don't like what I'm thinking right now.

billyfly
09-04-2009, 10:24 PM
And I thought the excitement of my day was going to be the air show planes flying through downtown...guess I was wrong!

What an exaggeration.

Chevy
09-04-2009, 10:25 PM
Blizzard - Fuel to the fire. I LOVE this board!

I think if we put our mind to it, we can find a living Sasquatch or two over the long weekend.

billyfly
09-04-2009, 10:25 PM
^hanlon's point beach.

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 10:26 PM
Blizzard - Fuel to the fire. I LOVE this board!

I think if we put our mind to it, we can find a living Sasquatch or two over the long weekend.

I'm only interested in them if they can cross!

Lucky Strike
09-04-2009, 10:26 PM
If teams know that Mo wants to unload a big salary guy, they will ask for a sweetner...ie. a younger player......kinda like how San Jose unloaded Garcia on us, when we after Gerba probably.

We got Garcia and Gerba's MLS rights for allocation an a draft pick did we not?

If that deal was considered a SJ salary dump (it wasn't just that, but you get the idea), maybe SJ "owes us one" or something.

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 10:30 PM
I gotta think a sasquach would have good trade value...maybe a saquach and barrett for allocation ?

Chevy
09-04-2009, 10:34 PM
But he's a red card waiting to happen. Kind of like Harmse was.
http://www.ninjapirate.com/images/sasquatch-eating-kitten.jpg
Thread officially off track.

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 10:36 PM
This is still boggling my mind...I really can't believe it, but at the same time kind of thought it was still a possibility. TFC gave him an ultimatum deadline a while back and he did not necessarily decline. He just did not want to decide. Yes....it does not look like he is getting the deals he wants in Europe...but who knows maybe he just needed time to sort things out.......

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 10:38 PM
Can you imagine the attendance increase for an MLS team signing a sasquach ???

billyfly
09-04-2009, 10:38 PM
http://www.refletoresdafama.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/padrao.jpg

Chevy
09-04-2009, 10:39 PM
^^Thread briefly on-track, then back off-track with a vengance

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 10:40 PM
Billy what does this have to do with anything ???? cmon man get with the program...sasquach benefits or JDG


http://www.refletoresdafama.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/padrao.jpg

billyfly
09-04-2009, 10:41 PM
Sorry, sorry....

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 10:43 PM
Alright.....enough with the Sasquatch talk.......more JDG talk...I missed a lot this evening....

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 10:46 PM
I knew good things would happen if I packed my De Guzman jersey to wear in warmups tomorrow.....MAN....this is massive!

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 10:47 PM
Its going to happen...if (and according to article they did) they agreed to terms, MO will make it happen...now its just a matter of time. Sasquachtion gauranteed. Take it to the bank.

Chevy
09-04-2009, 10:47 PM
I knew good things would happen if I packed my De Guzman jersey to wear in warmups tomorrow.....MAN....this is massive!

...as massive as a SASQUATCH!!!

http://www.playersindoor.com/assets/uploads/image/SoccerWLDMN_run.jpg

Northern Soul
09-04-2009, 10:50 PM
If this happens, maybe we could move Guevara? We wouldn't need him, could dump some salary, and he's still good enough that a team would want him.

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 10:53 PM
If this happens, maybe we could move Guevara? We wouldn't need him, could dump some salary, and he's still good enough that a team would want him.

Possibly...but I heard Guevara took a knock in training for the WCQ.....and with his recent injury here as well, it might be hard to move him...even with his quality.

Keyman
09-04-2009, 10:56 PM
I think he does substantially improve our team, in that he gives a player that can completely control the middle of the park. That is something we sorely lack. He also provides transition through the midfield that we do not have.

These are major reasons we always get thumped on the road, why we resort to dumping long balls, and why we can't kill a game off.

However, in the playoff hunt, we need to remember, as good as he is, he has not played much competitive football, and he will take time to settle with a new team. This is far from a golden ticket to the playoffs.

Although I agree that we're vastly improved up the middle, we still lack a prolific striker and/or dominating centreback. These are the positions that should have been addressed, in my opinion. I'm not entirely opposed to the imminent signing of De Guzman, but I wouldn't count myself as a proponent either. This one really has me on the fence.

Although Robinson's play has regressed significantly this year, he and Guevara still played respectable football up the middle. If one is dropped for salary reasons as a result of De Guzman signing, then we improve. But, say for instance we were to sign a striker, keep Guevara and Robinson, and drop another player, then we would still have quite an impressive midfield, and also see the substantial improvement, which I spoke about earlier, up front. I guess what I'm trying to say is that based on our teams needs, it isn't the most efficient use of money, however, I'd like to see the contract details (length in particular) before I rush the any more conclusions.

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 10:56 PM
Its going to happen...if (and according to article they did) they agreed to terms, MO will make it happen...now its just a matter of time. Sasquachtion gauranteed. Take it to the bank.

Ya but as SD and I have been saying, it would have been easier for MO to make this happen if someone hadn't leaked the story to Kristian Jack!

wzhxvy
09-04-2009, 10:56 PM
My guess is Guevara is done after this year...at least from TFC's perspective...so yeah he would have been a good option. Trading Wynn for nothing would work but MO still thinks he will be sold for big bucks so thats not likely....

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 11:03 PM
Teammates once again......:)

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h115/ageroo/100_1473.jpg

FluSH
09-04-2009, 11:19 PM
Mo leaking this to Kristian himself? No, I don't think so.

nooooooo more like Kristian getting info from contacts around the league...

Blizzard
09-04-2009, 11:21 PM
nooooooo more like Kristian getting info from contacts around the league...

LOL. Ah, ok. It's late. :facepalm:

S_D
09-04-2009, 11:26 PM
My guess is Guevara is done after this year...at least from TFC's perspective...so yeah he would have been a good option. Trading Wynn for nothing would work but MO still thinks he will be sold for big bucks so thats not likely....

Guevara is damaged goods when it comes to trades. He didn't like the idea that he had to come to TFC when unloaded by Chivas because it wasn't his decision to make. The only way he moves is if Mo asks him for a list of teams he would want to play for.

Wynne won't be sold. I have never seen any mention of Wynne being a transfer target EVER except on supporter message boards. I can't ever recall Mo saying Wynne was destined for elsewhere outside of the MLS. He had a poor showing on the USMNT and rode the bench. His value is here.

My thinking is quite a few teams would line up to get their hands on him due to his athletic ability and that he is a domestic. He is one of the few players on this team where there could be a bidding war resulting in good value.

AL-MO
09-04-2009, 11:30 PM
Just read the 5 pages....THIS IS HAPPENING?!?

I got a text from Bluenose earlier this evening and refused to beleive it!

FluSH
09-04-2009, 11:33 PM
De Guzman doesn't put us over the top, nor does he make us a substantially improved team. He's a wonderful player, yes, but this signing doesn't address our needs. If we were rebuilding, De Guzman would be a perfect centrepiece, but we're in the playoff hunt right now.

Anyhow before I prepare for the murdering we are going to do tomorrow at the RPB tourney...

I would like to quote Keyman... and say

++++++++++1

AL-MO
09-04-2009, 11:35 PM
For the record, I want to keep Dichio.

Cake AND eat it too. :D

billyfly
09-04-2009, 11:36 PM
Just read the 5 pages....THIS IS HAPPENING?!?

I got a text from Bluenose earlier this evening and refused to beleive it!


How do you feel about the Sasquatch?

AL-MO
09-04-2009, 11:37 PM
Fuck the Sasquatch...I need to figure out our next banner!!!

SilverSamurai
09-04-2009, 11:40 PM
Teammates once again......:)

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h115/ageroo/100_1473.jpg
I still am pissed we left early after the St.V game and didn't get a chance to meet JDG.
I gave into the power of the poutine. :(

SilverSamurai
09-04-2009, 11:42 PM
How do you feel about the Sasquatch?
What about a samsquantch?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/37k72YWxDXU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/37k72YWxDXU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

flatpicker
09-04-2009, 11:42 PM
I still am pissed we left early after the St.V game and didn't get a chance to meet JDG.
I gave into the power of the poutine. :(


Poutine will get you every time.

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 11:44 PM
Anyhow before I prepare for the murdering we are going to do tomorrow at the RPB tourney...

I would like to quote Keyman... and say

++++++++++1

9am...be there....and you should be asleep! I am already down here mentally preparing the De Guzman treatment I will be giving to you tomorrow. :D

Ageroo
09-04-2009, 11:47 PM
I still am pissed we left early after the St.V game and didn't get a chance to meet JDG.
I gave into the power of the poutine. :(

I have a picture with Gerba as well.....and he is on TFC now too......all three were playing elsewhere...and now look. Oh snap...I got a picture with Atiba as well....let's hope that one is next....:)

TFC07
09-05-2009, 12:10 AM
It is going to be hard to trade Robbo. I think Barrett and/or Wynne should be the ones end up being traded. Anyway, welcome to Toronto JDG (if this rumour is true).

Stryker
09-05-2009, 12:30 AM
Wynne won't be sold. I have never seen any mention of Wynne being a transfer target EVER except on supporter message boards. I can't ever recall Mo saying Wynne was destined for elsewhere outside of the MLS. He had a poor showing on the USMNT and rode the bench. His value is here.

My thinking is quite a few teams would line up to get their hands on him due to his athletic ability and that he is a domestic. He is one of the few players on this team where there could be a bidding war resulting in good value.
I know that Chicago very much wanted Wynne during the McBride fiasco.
I believe they wanted the rights to McBride and Wynne for Rolfe, Mapp and someone else decent who I just can't remember now.
Mo balked at the deal though refusing to deal Wynne.

poppamidnight
09-05-2009, 12:42 AM
Is anyone waivable? Or Buyout?

Or does this move require a trade?

I mean how many teams can/are willing to eat that much salary.... (knowing Robbo's age)

Here's who I see most disposible for the JDG Situation:
1 - Barrett
2 - Dichio
3 - Vitti
4 - Robbo

Although IF this JDG is longterm, I'd swap Robbo w/ Vitti (Since word was Vitti will be back next yr with a restructured salary)

Bottom line is we have to clear alot of salary, since some young guys are in line for a raise soon

DoubleUp
09-05-2009, 01:11 AM
Iam not into all the salary discussions, but if we get JDG. We dont need Guevera.

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-05-2009, 01:31 AM
I think Cronin will end up going packaged with one of the high earners - can't just expect teams to take all of our baggage players off our hands.

ilikemusic
09-05-2009, 01:33 AM
How did I miss this thread?

Is this for real?

:scarf:

:flare:

:canada:



Were becoming the de-facto Canadian national team.

Super
09-05-2009, 02:57 AM
Were becoming the de-facto Canadian national team.

Not sure this is a good thing, though.. or?

DeGuzman is a wonderful player with enough skill to keep us all happy and entertained for years - but I can't help but feel that we're trying to trade a great player in place of a good/very good player (Robbo or Guevara) and in doing so fail to address our real problem: scoring goals. The Seattle game showed us that we're playing without any very capable or at the very least slightly dangerous strikers - DeRo had to do all, or at least most of, the offensive work. So we improve our midfield - great. But we'll still struggle to score, and thus struggle to make the play-offs.

Now, having said all of this, I am of course also very excited about the prospect of landing perhaps the best Canadian player in football today. I'd love to see DeGuzman in a TFC jersey - of course. But do I believe that this will turn around our situation in the table? Not really. I hope so, though. And so do all of you - even though you know it's a bit of a stretch to think that way.

werewolf
09-05-2009, 05:19 AM
:canada:

Were becoming the de-facto Canadian national team.

Works for Bayern Munich. :D

Pookie
09-05-2009, 05:33 AM
In thinking about players that might move, remember too that this is the MLS. They have a very soft cap in which allocation money can be applied against the cap and can allow a team to exceed it. The league makes the decision on who and what is applied and allows for "exceptional circumstances."

I am looking forward to seeing him play. I sure as hell hope that we got a discount off the current offer. Otherwise, my pockets are going to feel lighter in 2010.

Redcoe15
09-05-2009, 06:47 AM
When the fuck did this happen?????

:willy_nilly:

Darlofletch
09-05-2009, 07:03 AM
holy fuck! would love to see this happen if he's defeinitely going to be here for at least one full season. If it's just for the rest of this season then no thanks.

as for who to let go to get cap room this season, well that bit kind of scares me. I'd prefer it to not be any of our younger players, but I wouldn't want it to be Dichio or Robbo either. If other gms are going to demand young players, then hopefully either wynne, barrett or vitti will suffice, I'd hate to lose frei, cronin, nana, or the gambians.

edwards seems to be a bit too good to be playing backup, surely someone would be interested in a good young american goalie. then re-sign sutton to be frei's backup.

Hitcho
09-05-2009, 07:19 AM
holy fuck! would love to see this happen if he's defeinitely going to be here for at least one full season. If it's just for the rest of this season then no thanks.

One season? Screw that, I wouldn;t want to jack in a loyal veteran from seaosn and treat them like shit just for one season, what does that say about us? Robbo was a major coup when re-signed, turned down offers from home. I'd want to keep JDG for a good few years if thats the plan. Otherwise, what do we do when he ups and leaves?


as for who to let go to get cap room this season, well that bit kind of scares me. I'd prefer it to not be any of our younger players, but I wouldn't want it to be Dichio or Robbo either. If other gms are going to demand young players, then hopefully either wynne, barrett or vitti will suffice, I'd hate to lose frei, cronin, nana, or the gambians.

edwards seems to be a bit too good to be playing backup, surely someone would be interested in a good young american goalie. then re-sign sutton to be frei's backup.

Agreed and agreed. Keep the key youth players, trade Edwards who never gets a game anyway, and re-sign Sutton for less wonga. Then we really would be "canadian"! :D

Oldtimer
09-05-2009, 07:41 AM
Works for Bayern Munich. :D

Also worked for the Hungarian "Golden Team" in the 1950's. How a tiny central European country invented the prototype of "Total Football", won the Olympics, and nearly won the WC is the stuff of legend.

Almost all of those players were on the same club team, so they knew each other very well.

Darlofletch
09-05-2009, 07:44 AM
One season? Screw that, I wouldn;t want to jack in a loyal veteran from seaosn and treat them like shit just for one season, what does that say about us? Robbo was a major coup when re-signed, turned down offers from home. I'd want to keep JDG for a good few years if thats the plan. Otherwise, what do we do when he ups and leaves?



Agreed and agreed. Keep the key youth players, trade Edwards who never gets a game anyway, and re-sign Sutton for less wonga. Then we really would be "canadian"! :D

Well ideally, it would be a multi year thing. And I agree, I'd rather not screw over Dichio, Robbo, or Brennan, but you've got to be brutal sometimes if it's for the good of the team, hopefully they don't have to dump either robbo or dichio (can't see brennan going, but those two make sense in a very very cold hearted way). Surely Mo could persuade someone to take Guevara, he's someone who could really help a team out this year, and there seems to be a lot of talk about him not coming back next year anyway.

TFCtoMUFC
09-05-2009, 08:04 AM
I think Cronin will end up going packaged with one of the high earners - can't just expect teams to take all of our baggage players off our hands.

I hope Cronin doesnt go, really like him.

mastermixer
09-05-2009, 08:07 AM
Is it sad that we have to sign the entire CDN mens national team to compete in MLS?

DOMIN8R
09-05-2009, 08:21 AM
Is it sad that we have to sign the entire CDN mens national team to compete in MLS?

There is something to be said for the familiarization the MNT players will have with each other having played together so frequently.

ArmenJBX
09-05-2009, 08:40 AM
And it makes Vancouver's job a lot tougher. They need Canadians too and they don't have the same amount of international spots as we do.

Imagine being the whitecaps right now. All the good Canadians (DeRo, JDG, Brennan, Nana, Serioux, etc.) are playing here. A lot of the other ones don't wanna move. So it makes life so much harder for Vancouver and eventually Montreal.

billyfly
09-05-2009, 08:42 AM
Note that no other Toronto sports outlet is reporting this.

DOMIN8R
09-05-2009, 08:47 AM
Vancouver can have Harmse!

mlsintoronto
09-05-2009, 08:48 AM
There is something to be said for the familiarization the MNT players will have with each other having played together so frequently.

I've never seen the Canadian MNT and the phrase "played together so frequently" in the same sentence before!

:canada:

ArmenJBX
09-05-2009, 08:55 AM
Good Mornin' :D

Any news for us mlsintoronto? lol :D

craigtfc
09-05-2009, 09:11 AM
drop barrett

SoccMan
09-05-2009, 09:18 AM
I will tell you this, JDG or no JDG, grass or no grass, stadium expansion or not if MLSE thinks they can hike the price of season tickets, exspecialy substantialy, then they are greatly mistaken. All those empty seats you see at games are mainly people who have season tickets but are just not going anymore. The interest has declined and MLSE needs to take this into account before hiking season ticket prices or else BMO field will definately resemble Crew Stadium sooner then later!

Lucky Strike
09-05-2009, 09:37 AM
If this does come through, there is no way Brennan will be shipped off, simply because we have nothing else at LB aside from Fellinga who hasn't played a minute. We don't know how well (or poorly) he plays and there'd be no cover for him (and no, Serioux fumbling over in that position doesn' t count).

Nuvinho
09-05-2009, 10:02 AM
I really hope the young core of the team can stay together for awhile. All this player movement is making it hard to create a winning team. Look at teams like Columbus (everyone is gonna hate me saying this....but its true), they don't make a lot of changes.

Nuvinho
09-05-2009, 10:10 AM
This is were the salary cap in MLS is unclear. How would they calculate how much is needed to pay JDG the rest of the year?

If $400K counts towards the cap for the entire year, since there are only 7 games left.....would we only need to have $90K to $110K for him?

I figured we did have about that much left.....but who knows.

Yohan
09-05-2009, 10:27 AM
now just think of the predicament Mo is in if this is true.

1) If we know it, it means all the other GM's know it. Mo of course will try to unload the older higher priced talent but if you are a GM, and knowing that Mo needs to unload a player to sign his DP, they are going to want a good player with a lot of upside, not some old guy.
Yeah. It'll be Mo's turn to get fleeced. No first round pick for next year's draft IIRC to sweeten any deal.

And I'd deffo trade draft picks to make JDG signing happen.


2) If you are a GM that is in contention for the last few playoff spots, are you going to make a deal with TFC to make it easier for them to make the playoffs with a DP and possibly push your team out? Not likely.
You make the deals what is good for your team. So you worry about improving the quality of your team, and worry about what happens to other teams.

Worrying about playoff implications is only a short term thing. If you get a player who can help your team for years to come, wouldn't you take the deal?


3) If you are a non contending team who is out of it, are you going to be willing to trade for an older guy when you have the chance to see how some of your younger guys do? Not likely.

Depends. If you're a rebuilding team, you do want some veterans to guide the youngsters along.

I think part of the reason why TFC youngsters are doing so well is that they are surrounded by a lot of guys who have been there, done that.

Plus, players last longer in MLS, so guys like Robbo and Guevara still have 2 more years ish left.

4) Mo is going to want draft picks back so there isn't any additional cost to the salary cap unless a high cost player is unloaded.

It's not uncommon to do a trade for 'future considerations', which basically is a salary dump and getting rid of a player for free.

Now of course this is all conjecture based on the presumption that GM's aren't idiots and the head office isn't going to get involved and try and force/influence a trade.

My bet: If we see a trade, we either aren't going to get much in return such as a low round draft pick if it is one of the more expensive older guys or one of our young guys is going to get shipped out.

It's not uncommon for MLS teams to trade a big money player for salary cap room. I think one of high priced player to be traded for either a depth player, or a low draft pick.
Which is fine by me.

And just off of the cuff: L.A. still owes us for taking Ruiz off of their hands so they could sign their left mid via allocation. Time to call in the favour.
Arena is about ruthless they come.

Plus, I don't think Arena feels that he owes TFC anything, considering if Ruiz turned his career around in TFC, it would have been Mo who would have owed Arena big

Yohan
09-05-2009, 10:33 AM
I'm thinking Guevera would fetch the most interest as far as veterans go...maybe some team looking for an extra bit of "oomph" for their playoff drive.

The man to ship out would be Robbo, but none too sure there'd be a significant amount of interest.
I have this nagging feeling that TFC won't be able to sign JDG until next year, because they can't move anyone.

However, with Philly expansion draft and high turnover of MLS players in off season, there will be enough room to sign JDG.

Plus, we don't know how much the cap will go up by, after the new players bargain agreement.


There is no doubt that Barrett is a no brainer, but who will take him off our hands. If I was Mo the first team I would contact is Houston. I would offer them Barrett who makes $202 500 and Wynne who makes $159 500 and in return I would want Hainault who makes $112 125. This would not only clear cap room for JDG but would tremendously strengthen our back 4. If they insisted on a player like Sanyang I would be inclined to move him as well for a 2nd round pick in the deal. Don't get me wrong he has impressed in the games he has played but a holding midfielder isn't that hard to find.
1. Houston has very little, if any cap room left after signing their DP (which by the way, is rather unknown outside of Mexico, so I highly doubt the league will veto JDG signing for lack of 'big name' factor).

2. Houston already traded away Julius James to DC, who have been their depth defender this year, so I doubt they want to trade Hainault too. (Who have been very good this year, and can play all 3 defensive position, so has high value)

I do want to know exactly how many years JDG is signing for. Short term contract, no thanks.

Also, even if paperwork gets done real fast (MLS trade deadline is Sept 14 IIRC?) JDG is NOT match fit. If TFC does make the playoffs, he'd be very good though

English Rachel
09-05-2009, 10:34 AM
Told you I believed!!! And all you fuckers thought I was bonkers ;)

Jack, we need a celebratory pint.

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

BTW WOOOOOFUCKINGHOOOOOOOOOO

SilverSamurai
09-05-2009, 10:34 AM
And it makes Vancouver's job a lot tougher. They need Canadians too and they don't have the same amount of international spots as we do.

Imagine being the whitecaps right now. All the good Canadians (DeRo, JDG, Brennan, Nana, Serioux, etc.) are playing here. A lot of the other ones don't wanna move. So it makes life so much harder for Vancouver and eventually Montreal.
Really the only player I could see playing in the near future for Montreal from the CMNT would be Bernier.
Friend isn't going to leave Bundasliga anytime soon.


I've never seen the Canadian MNT and the phrase "played together so frequently" in the same sentence before!

:canada:
Maybe we can get FIFA to count the TFC friendlies as CMNT matches. lol

billyfly
09-05-2009, 10:45 AM
I still don't believe this.

ag futbol
09-05-2009, 10:59 AM
Barrett can't be waived, he's on a gauranteed deal (from what i've seen printed before many times). He could be traded and we'd probably end up eating part of his salary. Unsure why anyone would be interested though.

Robinson is the obvious man out. De Guzman will play box-to-box, and one of Sanyang or Cronin will play along side him. Carl is great on one half of the ball but put two central mids on the field that can pass and it will open things up a lot. He's also a lot older than the alternatives.

The second person who comes to mind is Guevara, but that seems less likely as when he wants to play he can produce and we don't really have anybody in his mold to replace him. Salary would be my main concern in his case. Next year i'd think he's destined for a super sub role.

Yohan
09-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Barrett can't be waived, he's on a gauranteed deal (from what i've seen printed before many times). He could be traded and we'd probably end up eating part of his salary. Unsure why anyone would be interested though.

Robinson is the obvious man out. De Guzman will play box-to-box, and one of Sanyang or Cronin will play along side him. Carl is great on one half of the ball but put two central mids on the field that can pass and it will open things up a lot. He's also a lot older than the alternatives.
Barring a weird trade, Sanyang, JDG, Cronin, DeRo will be TFC midfield for next little while (I hope)

Sanyang is putting together a very good case to gun for #1 DM role


The second person who comes to mind is Guevara, but that seems less likely as when he wants to play he can produce and we don't really have anybody in his mold to replace him. Salary would be my main concern in his case. Next year i'd think he's destined for a super sub role.
300k for super sub is too much for this league

TFCtoMUFC
09-05-2009, 11:12 AM
Vitti and Robbo/Guevara sounds good as then Sanyang or Cronin or both will get good playing time.

Tezza
09-05-2009, 11:13 AM
Barrett can't be waived, he's on a gauranteed deal (from what i've seen printed before many times). He could be traded and we'd probably end up eating part of his salary. Unsure why anyone would be interested though.

Robinson is the obvious man out. De Guzman will play box-to-box, and one of Sanyang or Cronin will play along side him. Carl is great on one half of the ball but put two central mids on the field that can pass and it will open things up a lot. He's also a lot older than the alternatives.

The second person who comes to mind is Guevara, but that seems less likely as when he wants to play he can produce and we don't really have anybody in his mold to replace him. Salary would be my main concern in his case. Next year i'd think he's destined for a soup-er sub role.

I'll have the soup. :D

Guavara is done with TFC after this year IMO. Robinson is the obvious choice to get rid of but I can't see anybody really needing him at his salary, especially as he has been less than spectacular this season.

If this story is true I'm happy...but until I've heard De-Goo has signed I'm not gonna get a stiffy.

TFCtoMUFC
09-05-2009, 11:17 AM
Well by the looks of it a real agreement has not been reached (as he is not listed on the TFC website) so by the lineup tonight we can probably see who is anyone has left.

sulfur
09-05-2009, 11:26 AM
He can't be listed on the TFC website until a deal has been done so that the team can afford to get him under the cap.

It's that's simple. They can't sign him without the space to do so.

sulfur
09-05-2009, 11:30 AM
This is were the salary cap in MLS is unclear. How would they calculate how much is needed to pay JDG the rest of the year?

If $400K counts towards the cap for the entire year, since there are only 7 games left.....would we only need to have $90K to $110K for him?

I figured we did have about that much left.....but who knows.
From my reading and understanding on the cap issue, it works as full cap through Aug 1, then a 50% cap hit after Aug 1.

Shakes McQueen
09-05-2009, 11:32 AM
The Footy Blog post doesn't say he's signed - it just says the JDG has agreed to play for us, if we can meet his terms. However, as of now, his terms haven't been met yet. I predict it's at least a couple of weeks before we see him on the pitch, if at all.

And that's assuming this is all true, which it could very well not be.

Still - hope we can get this done, if it is true. JDG would be a force to be reckoned with in our midfield, and would give us a formidable forward defensive presence, as well as a guy who can contribute big time on the attack.

- Scott

jloome
09-05-2009, 11:49 AM
I still don't believe this.

Highly sensible.

jloome
09-05-2009, 11:52 AM
The Footy Blog post doesn't say he's signed - it just says the JDG has agreed to play for us, if we can meet his terms. However, as of now, his terms haven't been met yet. I predict it's at least a couple of weeks before we see him on the pitch, if at all.

And that's assuming this is all true, which it could very well not be.

Still - hope we can get this done, if it is true. JDG would be a force to be reckoned with in our midfield, and would give us a formidable forward defensive presence, as well as a guy who can contribute big time on the attack.

- Scott


Scott, you're so friggin charming sometimes with your naivete. This has the reek of an "out" for an iffy story that so far has been supported by absolutely bupkus. He stated before his last "not yet" that Toronto had already offered him an amazing contract, so the "meeting his terms" sounds like a backdoor for bad journalism 101...since it's contract related, and would never be made public through a named sources.

Hard to believe, with as many people tapped into TFC sources as there are, that no one else is on this one yet. But here's hoping it's legit.

kaos197O
09-05-2009, 12:02 PM
Who knows if this will happen. All I know is that our money and our club was not good enough for him just a month ago and now that there is no serious interest from European clubs he's "settling" for us! I'm happy to have him but not so happy that he had us listed as a "last resort" option. YEAH, I know....this is MLS! Also not happy that he could have signed earlier and helped our club push harder for a playoff spot. He'll probably do great things for TFC if he comes but.........

Wonder who's getting the screws and how it will affect the locker room? Chemistry seems good right now and I have to wonder how his huge payroll will affect the others in the dressing room.

I PRAY THAT DICHIO STAYS!

dupont
09-05-2009, 12:17 PM
Just heard this news on the FAN radio station. I guess their source is the same blog we saw?

uncle p
09-05-2009, 12:25 PM
Im so sick about hearing about JDG (in a good way tho)

He's a Red, he isnt a Red
He's signed, he hasnt signed
He's agreed to terms, he hasnt agreed to terms

I'm just not ready for another 30 page thread on rumours and hear say.
This time around ill save my enthusiasm for when i read an official press release

Shakes McQueen
09-05-2009, 01:18 PM
Scott, you're so friggin charming sometimes with your naivete. This has the reek of an "out" for an iffy story that so far has been supported by absolutely bupkus. He stated before his last "not yet" that Toronto had already offered him an amazing contract, so the "meeting his terms" sounds like a backdoor for bad journalism 101...since it's contract related, and would never be made public through a named sources.

Hard to believe, with as many people tapped into TFC sources as there are, that no one else is on this one yet. But here's hoping it's legit.

Eh? I allowed for the very obvious possibility that this could not be true, and added "if it's true" as a qualifier to my interest in seeing JDG suit up for us. I don't see how that makes me any more naive than anyone else in this thread who has commented that they hope this is true.

- Scott

TFC USA
09-05-2009, 01:25 PM
...I AM SO CONFUSED!!!!


I just want to fast forward to the offseason at this point. What a shitshow Post-Miracle in Montreal this has been.

Cas87
09-05-2009, 01:25 PM
When a pic is posted showing JDG holding up the red jersey with BMO splashed across the front then I'll believe it

sampace
09-05-2009, 01:28 PM
One thing, I am a TFC fan first. SO when I say this, it is nothing against DeGuzman and his right to take his time. But I feel that if he was interested in helping TFC out, after they offered him a big contract and he waited those two weeks after the Gold Cup he should of joined then. Now we've been knocked out by Puerto Rico, and barely alive in the playoffs. Instead of disrupting the team right now, Johnson should make DeGuzman wait until the offseason to bring him in!

TFC07
09-05-2009, 01:46 PM
How much money is JDG suppose to get from TFC?

Me personally, I am kind of disappointed that Toronto isn't going to use their DP on a striker. We need a striker who can put the ball in the net more than a defensive/centre mid. Also we still need a quality veteran CB/defender as well. Let's not forget that we don't have true wingers on this team.

This team has too many holes and Mo is doing nothing to address these needs. :facepalm:

ensco
09-05-2009, 01:58 PM
I consider the timing of this story strange.

I'm not convinced that TFC has ever made a bona fide offer to JDG. More precisely, I am suspicious that MLSE won't pay the money it would take to get JDG in for more than 7 games.

TFC07
09-05-2009, 02:03 PM
I consider the timing of this story strange.

I'm not convinced that TFC has ever made a bona fide offer to JDG. More precisely, I am suspicious that MLSE won't pay the money it would take to get JDG in for more than 7 games.

I guess TFC (mainly Mo) is so desperate to make it to the playoffs and find a way to keep interest steady from season ticket holders so they can justify their price increase for next season that they're willing to sign JDG for a short term. Not sure JDG is big enough name to generate interest outside from supporters groups.

ensco
09-05-2009, 02:12 PM
I posted in July that I thought the JDG thing was more likely than not a gambit designed to give Mo a ready answer to the accusation that TFC won't sign a DP. I think he knew full well that JDG wouldn't sign. I really became suspicious when absurd numbers came out.

Now this, with the team in dire straits, rumors of dissension/rebellion everywhere, and the boards turning on Mo.

MLSE are facing big revenue declines this year. Big unsold inventory of Raptor boxes and high end seats. Leaf boxes available too, for the first time ever.

I don't think Mo or Anselmi have the cred it takes to go to the Board on this for a big dollar amount.

Best to keep the skeptic cap on for now.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-05-2009, 02:18 PM
I will tell you this, JDG or no JDG, grass or no grass, stadium expansion or not if MLSE thinks they can hike the price of season tickets, exspecialy substantialy, then they are greatly mistaken. All those empty seats you see at games are mainly people who have season tickets but are just not going anymore. The interest has declined and MLSE needs to take this into account before hiking season ticket prices or else BMO field will definately resemble Crew Stadium sooner then later!

Most Clubs in football worldwide raise their season ticket/single game prices..it all come down to the % of the hike..We Have Phiadelphia
coming in next season thus one more game to the package, followed
by Portland and Vancouver in 2011 2 more games added to the schedule.
there are noy that many empty seats, Toronto sports fans are known for showing up late it takes BMO 20 mins into the match for the usual 20,000
seats to be filled. The Interest has not declined, people just know there
is not enough seating right now, and the smarts one are not willing to pay scalpers $$$ for the right to follow the team at home, they will wait till more seats (2010?) are added.

Shakes McQueen
09-05-2009, 02:20 PM
I consider the timing of this story strange.

I'm not convinced that TFC has ever made a bona fide offer to JDG. More precisely, I am suspicious that MLSE won't pay the money it would take to get JDG in for more than 7 games.

If they will pay a nobody like Jeff Finger $2.5m a season to play for the Leafs, they will pony up some cash to pay for a guy who could potentially become a flagship player for their soccer franchise for a few years, if he stays.

You can fairly criticize the general dysfunction of MLSE's management, in terms of bringing success to their clubs, but they've never really been "cheap" on players themselves. I doubt they'd be willing to grossly overpay for a DP, but the numbers I've heard bandied about in these JDG dealings, have never seemed too far off the deep end to me.

And JDG has confirmed in the past that Mo has sought to sign him, so unless it's a conspiracy between the two of them, I'd suspect MLSE have made an offer to him (at least earlier this season - who knows about how true this new rumour is).

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
09-05-2009, 02:22 PM
Best to keep the skeptic cap on for now.

I think it's fair to keep our skeptical hats on, regarding JDG coming to TFC, but I'm leaving my tin foil hat off for now, regarding some conspiracy to divert our attention from the other rumours flying around.

- Scott

Yohan
09-05-2009, 02:24 PM
Most Clubs in football worldwide raise their season ticket/single game prices..it all come down to the % of the hike..We Have Phiadelphia
coming in next season thus one more game to the package, followed
by Portland and Vancouver in 2011 2 more games added to the schedule.

highly doubt more games will be added for next season

a team plays two games against every team in the league, plus 2 'derby' games

most likely case is that those 2 derby games are cancelled and replaced by philly

dunno what will happen in 2011 though. however, an increase in roster spots plus reduction/elimination of bye weeks should be enough to accommodate potential increase of 4 games in 2011 season

ag futbol
09-05-2009, 02:33 PM
300k for super sub is too much for this league
I agree, but who's going to pay Guevarra 300k, period, after this year? I think he's going to be back in a reduced role, at a reduced wage, which i don't really have a problem with.

Blizzard
09-05-2009, 02:36 PM
I agree, but who's going to pay Guevarra 300k, period, after this year? I think he's going to be back in a reduced role, at a reduced wage, which i don't really have a problem with.

Much may depend on if Honduras qualifies for the World Cup. If they do, I fully expect him to retire from MLS and concentrate on his duties with the national team meanwhile playing in their domestic league to stay fit.

If they don't qualify? Crap shoot.

Bombonera
09-05-2009, 02:37 PM
7 games to go. I agree with ENSCO. Something oes not make any sense here at all. UNLESS, signing DeGUzman is sold to MLSW board as key to preserving current revenue.
Frankly, regardless of this signing, I would still be buying my season tickets. It sounds and is rather pathetic. But I have faith in the future.
What would make me excitied would be to see DICHIO play out the season therey giving us a fighting chance at the playoffs.
RObo and Brennan are done. They nee to be replaced an will be. if it's JDG great. If not, the gambian's are an entertainign solution.
But the thought of GERBA getting time over DICHIO makes me think that smeone should give MO's head a big shake. SHame on him.

ensco
09-05-2009, 02:44 PM
^re "tin foil hat", I got lots of that and worse for about 48 hours at the beginning of the Carver thing. We'll see.

Pookie
09-05-2009, 02:45 PM
...
MLSE are facing big revenue declines this year. Big unsold inventory of Raptor boxes and high end seats. Leaf boxes available too, for the first time ever.

I don't think Mo or Anselmi have the cred it takes to go to the Board on this for a big dollar amount.

Best to keep the skeptic cap on for now.

Fair enough but if the dollar amount was approved prior to the season as part of their operating budget, they wouldn't necessarily need to go to the Board for approval of every offer made at this stage. They would have presented a plan and budget well ahead of the 2009 season and would have been given direction at that point.

Of course, if the DP wasn't part of their plan prior to the season, they would need approval.

mighty_torontofc_2008
09-05-2009, 02:46 PM
highly doubt more games will be added for next season

a team plays two games against every team in the league, plus 2 'derby' games

most likely case is that those 2 derby games are cancelled and replaced by philly

dunno what will happen in 2011 though. however, an increase in roster spots plus reduction/elimination of bye weeks should be enough to accommodate potential increase of 4 games in 2011 season


i would love Philly to be our Derby games instead of Columbus, but no doubt the league will push for a NY-PHilly, or Philly NE rivalry,,but a 16 game home/away schedule is possible...

Yohan
09-05-2009, 02:48 PM
I agree, but who's going to pay Guevarra 300k, period, after this year? I think he's going to be back in a reduced role, at a reduced wage, which i don't really have a problem with.
does anyone know when Guevara's contract expire?

kaos197O
09-05-2009, 02:50 PM
I guess TFC (mainly Mo) is so desperate to make it to the playoffs .

I don't think JDG could help with that now. He is not likely game fit or ready at this point and would have minimal impact on the minutes he did get to play in. Had he have started 3 or 4 games ago he may have been more into the mould and had a better feel for the players and our style of play. Many here thought Gerba would be the answer to all our prayers but as we have all seen, Gerba simply hasn't fit into the club or produced anything positive since his arrival. Perhaps he needs time or perhaps it's our style of play, who knows, but thinking that JDG=Playoffs is damned foolish. But then again.....this is MO we are talking about!

Pookie
09-05-2009, 02:51 PM
I don't think the "signing" if it happens has anything to do with season tickets or revenue streams.

I think that the targeting of De Guzman was done with an eye towards eventually selling him. He is a player that has stated a desire to return to Europe and has the talent to play there. He's burned a few bridges there (hence his free agent status) through crticism of European clubs.

Parking himself in the MLS until he is 28-29 would allow time to repair some of those bridges and TFC could capitalize on the transfer.

There is some hype around De Guzman amongst those of us that follow Canadian Soccer but this isn't going to get Joe Average out to the games or sell an additional 1,000 tickets on the day it is announced in every MLS market (as it was rumoured that Beckham's signing did). It isn't going to expand GolTV's audience noticeably nor will it get TFC in the top stories on ESPN in the USA.

When the average Canadian hears the name Julian... they think about Ricky and Bubbles.

ensco
09-05-2009, 02:59 PM
Fair enough but if the dollar amount was approved prior to the season as part of their operating budget, they wouldn't necessarily need to go to the Board for approval of every offer made at this stage. They would have presented a plan and budget well ahead of the 2009 season and would have been given direction at that point.

Of course, if the DP wasn't part of their plan prior to the season, they would need approval.

I don't know these numbers, but let's say TFC makes $3 or $4 million a year, and JDG would make $2 or 3 million a year.

I don't care what the budget is, I think they'd go back to the board given the materiality.

Which is why my guess is they won't do it. He costs too much relative to the size of the whole operation.

Bobo
09-05-2009, 03:02 PM
If we drop Garcia could we keep Robbo?

Phil
09-05-2009, 03:04 PM
If we drop Garcia could we keep Robbo?

That might work.

As far as being approved, my understanding is that its been cleared by the board for DP.

Its going to be fun and possibly sad to see how this plays out.

ensco
09-05-2009, 03:05 PM
Pookie, it'd help if you named some players who've been sold at age 29-30 or older (excluding sales by Super clubs) because I'm not sure there have been many.

DOMIN8R
09-05-2009, 03:34 PM
MLSE BoD has already approved a DP salary. This took place some time ago. Do a search - you might find it.

ArmenJBX
09-05-2009, 03:35 PM
So realistically, when should we hear about the actual signing?

Kevvv
09-05-2009, 03:43 PM
Thursday

ensco
09-05-2009, 03:50 PM
MLSE BoD has already approved a DP salary. This took place some time ago. Do a search - you might find it.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081111/081111_tfc_dp?hub=CP24Home

This was always pretty thin gruel, imho

Would love to be wrong. But the spending environment in pro sports has deteriorated badly in the last 12 months.

Pookie
09-05-2009, 03:58 PM
Pookie, it'd help if you named some players who've been sold at age 29-30 or older (excluding sales by Super clubs) because I'm not sure there have been many.

Well, last year from the following players found new homes through the transfer window out of the MLS:

Carlos Ruiz (age 30) to Olimpia Asuncion (PAR)
Hunter Freeman (age 24) to IK Start (NOR)
Scott Sealy (age 29) to Mac. Tel Aviv (ISR)
Fransisco Lima (age 38) to Taranto (ITA)
Kenny Duechar (age 29) to Hamilton (SCO)
Michael Parkhurst (age 25) to Nordsjaelland (DEN)
Kenny Cooper (age 25) to 1860 Munich (GER)
Duilio Davino (age 33) to Puebla (MEX)
Gonzalo Peralta (age 29) to Un. Santa Fe (COL)
Marcelo Gallardo (age 33) to River Plate (ARG)
Roberto Nurse (age 26) to Veracruz (MEX)
Francisco Mendoza (age 24) to Chivas (MEX)
Tomasz Frankowski (age 35) to Jagiellonia (POL)
Bakary Soumare (age 24) to Boulogne (FRA)

... sort of all over the map but of that list, 8 of the 14 were over 29 and arguably non of the talent of De Guzman.

DOMIN8R
09-05-2009, 04:01 PM
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081111/081111_tfc_dp?hub=CP24Home

This was always pretty thin gruel, imho

Would love to be wrong. But the spending environment in pro sports has deteriorated badly in the last 12 months.

So your position is that they would cancel their pre-approval and request a revised BP for 2009 and on - because we are in a recession economy?

Eugene, this management team has exceeded everyone's (who is reasonable) expectations for the franchise over the last 2.5 years.

They were profitable in the first year!

As far as MLSE franchises go, I would argue that this management team, can do little wrong. If they ask for something - they will likely get it.

I believe that this:

COO Tom Anselmi says the MLSE board has approved its 2009 business plan, which includes signing a designated player. (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081111/081111_tfc_dp?hub=CP24Home)

Is still valid.

Kevvv
09-05-2009, 04:07 PM
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081111/081111_tfc_dp?hub=CP24Home

This was always pretty thin gruel, imho

Would love to be wrong. But the spending environment in pro sports has deteriorated badly in the last 12 months.

Paul himself said the board has approved the spending (see here for his tongue-in-cheek confirmation: http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=578144#post578144)

DOMIN8R
09-05-2009, 04:15 PM
Great find. I forgot that he implied that it would be preferable to get a Canadian gravy boat.

ensco
09-05-2009, 04:25 PM
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081111/081111_tfc_dp?hub=CP24Home

This was always pretty thin gruel, imho

Would love to be wrong. But the spending environment in pro sports has deteriorated badly in the last 12 months.

So your position is that they would cancel their pre-approval and request a revised BP for 2009 and on - because we are in a recession economy?

Eugene, this management team has exceeded everyone's (who is reasonable) expectations for the franchise over the last 2.5 years.

They were profitable in the first year!

As far as MLSE franchises go, I would argue that this management team, can do little wrong. If they ask for something - they will likely get it.

I believe that this:

COO Tom Anselmi says the MLSE board has approved its 2009 business plan, which includes signing a designated player. (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20081111/081111_tfc_dp?hub=CP24Home)

Is still valid.

They have plenty of outs, just in the language they use in that story. There were other similar stories, that all say versions of "Mo has the authority to bring a guy forward" Whatever that means.

I don't hate MLSE. I give them credit for doing all this for just $10 million and a guarantee that they never had to use. I do hate corporate ownership of sports teams.

I hope you're right. But I think MLSE has been talking out of both sides of its mouth on both grass and the DP issue.

Just my humble opinion. We'll see. And while I do have my doubts, I really mean it when I see "we'll see".

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

CretanBull
09-05-2009, 04:28 PM
Dropping or buying out players won't free up cap space. There's a cut-off date (we bought out Ricketts a few days before it this season) and after that point all contracts count against the cap - even if a player is released or bought out.

The only way we can sign JDG is to trade away a salary (and not get one back) or trade for enough allocation money to get JDG's salary into whatever cap space we have left (which would be nearly impossible).

DOMIN8R
09-05-2009, 04:28 PM
:poke:Ensco, I don't think that you hate MLSE. But I do think that you are...

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u83/CheshahKat/Tough-Cookie.jpg

:smilielol5:

ensco
09-05-2009, 04:31 PM
^That is a fine compliment!

btw I sent a letter to my councillor re grass. Good luck with that.

Kevvv
09-05-2009, 04:32 PM
It was so much better when Ballard owned the Leafs. I know Pool fans have been happy with the Gillett/Hicks, MU fans with Glazer.

Pookie
09-05-2009, 04:39 PM
Dropping or buying out players won't free up cap space. There's a cut-off date (we bought out Ricketts a few days before it this season) and after that point all contracts count against the cap - even if a player is released or bought out.

The only way we can sign JDG is to trade away a salary (and not get one back) or trade for enough allocation money to get JDG's salary into whatever cap space we have left (which would be nearly impossible).

Not necessarily . In fact, De Guzman's cap hit might be less than $100k this year.

Garber set a precedent earlier this year when he allowed Beckham's salary to only count $200k against the cap based on when he joined the team.

MLS commissioner Don Garber addressed concerns over more perceived preferential treatment by MLS for the Los Angeles Galaxy, specifically the fact that LA will only have half of Beckham's salary cap hit counting against the Galaxy's salary cap in 2009.

Speaking to SBI on Sunday, Garber stated that the decision to only have Beckham count for $200,000 against the Galaxy's salary cap is in keeping with league policies. In this case, the Galaxy will not have Beckham on its roster, nor will the Galaxy be paying Beckham's salary, before he returns in July.

... you don’t have a player on your roster until he arrives at a particular date you shouldn’t have to pay for him and we have particular windows and roster dates that accommodate for that.”

Link to article (http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/03/garber-addresses-beckham-salary-cap-hit.html)

Canadian Blue
09-05-2009, 04:41 PM
Sorry guys but I am sure he will hust be another player that TFC and the fans expect to do wonders for the club but in fact will be a bust because his heart isn't in it. He is only here for the paycheck, at least that is how it looks to me.

rocker
09-05-2009, 04:42 PM
Dropping or buying out players won't free up cap space. There's a cut-off date (we bought out Ricketts a few days before it this season) and after that point all contracts count against the cap - even if a player is released or bought out.

The only way we can sign JDG is to trade away a salary (and not get one back) or trade for enough allocation money to get JDG's salary into whatever cap space we have left (which would be nearly impossible).

two players don't have this rule counting against them, if negotiated.

from Ives:

The second exception is less known about and more harsh for MLS players. According to MLS rules, teams are allowed to re-work contracts with up to two players to end the date of when their deals become guaranteed. Players are generally approached with a "take the new guarantee date or we will cut you" ultimatum and have to make the tough choice between staying in MLS without job security or moving on. Most players choose to stay.
So why does this go on? It is done to give teams more wiggle room ahead of the summer transfer window. By extending the date of a few players, it allows them to keep players around a few extra weeks until the reinforcements arrive without remaining on the hook for the remaining salaries of those players.


http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/mls-and-guarant.html

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-05-2009, 04:45 PM
anyone who thinks JDG wouldnt help us down the stretch..has to get his head examined!

CretanBull
09-05-2009, 04:49 PM
Not necessarily . In fact, De Guzman's cap hit might be less than $100k this year.

Garber set a precedent earlier this year when he allowed Beckham's salary to only count $200k against the cap based on when he joined the team.

MLS commissioner Don Garber addressed concerns over more perceived preferential treatment by MLS for the Los Angeles Galaxy, specifically the fact that LA will only have half of Beckham's salary cap hit counting against the Galaxy's salary cap in 2009.

Speaking to SBI on Sunday, Garber stated that the decision to only have Beckham count for $200,000 against the Galaxy's salary cap is in keeping with league policies. In this case, the Galaxy will not have Beckham on its roster, nor will the Galaxy be paying Beckham's salary, before he returns in July.

... you don’t have a player on your roster until he arrives at a particular date you shouldn’t have to pay for him and we have particular windows and roster dates that accommodate for that.”

Link to article (http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/03/garber-addresses-beckham-salary-cap-hit.html)

That's not relevant to the point really...that has to do with having a player's contract pro-rated for playing half the season, it doesn't have anything to do with LA having to create cap-space for Beckham.

Right now we're well over the cap (with the use of allocation money). In order to sign JDG we have to create cap space. At this point in the year, releasing or buying out a player doesn't create cap space. The only way to create cap space now is to trade away a salary. If we can't trade away a big enough salary to fit JDG in, we could trade away a smaller salary if we got some allocation money in the deal too.

CretanBull
09-05-2009, 04:59 PM
two players don't have this rule counting against them, if negotiated.

from Ives:

The second exception is less known about and more harsh for MLS players. According to MLS rules, teams are allowed to re-work contracts with up to two players to end the date of when their deals become guaranteed. Players are generally approached with a "take the new guarantee date or we will cut you" ultimatum and have to make the tough choice between staying in MLS without job security or moving on. Most players choose to stay.
So why does this go on? It is done to give teams more wiggle room ahead of the summer transfer window. By extending the date of a few players, it allows them to keep players around a few extra weeks until the reinforcements arrive without remaining on the hook for the remaining salaries of those players.


http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/mls-and-guarant.html


That exception can't really be applied to the type of salary/player we'd need it to be applied to to fit in JDG. This exception is used for young players or guys trying to break into the league. They give up the guaranteed nature of their contract in exchange for getting to stick with the team (and hopefully earn a spot on the team). If we went to Carl Robinson (for example) he wouldn't take the chance (knowing our goal is to cut him to make room for JDG) he'd just say "cut me" and we wouldn't get the cap space that we need.

Cashcleaner
09-05-2009, 05:03 PM
anyone who thinks JDG wouldnt help us down the stretch..has to get his head examined!

By the time he gets here, gets adjusted with the team and the manager, and gets settled into the MLS style of play, the season will be pretty much over and our playoff chances would have likely been decided by then.

Next year he'll be running right outta the gate, though.

Dirk Diggler
09-05-2009, 05:05 PM
By the time he gets here, gets adjusted with the team and the manager, and gets settled into the MLS style of play, the season will be pretty much over and our playoff chances would have likely been decided by then.

Next year he'll be running right outta the gate, though.

Exactly what I wanted to post. For a player who hasn't played competitive football since the Gold Cup, it would be unreasonable for him to come here and make an instant impact down the stretch.

Lucky Strike
09-05-2009, 05:07 PM
two players don't have this rule counting against them, if negotiated.

from Ives:

The second exception is less known about and more harsh for MLS players. According to MLS rules, teams are allowed to re-work contracts with up to two players to end the date of when their deals become guaranteed. Players are generally approached with a "take the new guarantee date or we will cut you" ultimatum and have to make the tough choice between staying in MLS without job security or moving on. Most players choose to stay.
So why does this go on? It is done to give teams more wiggle room ahead of the summer transfer window. By extending the date of a few players, it allows them to keep players around a few extra weeks until the reinforcements arrive without remaining on the hook for the remaining salaries of those players.


http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/07/mls-and-guarant.html


Chalk it up to one another highly obscure MLS rule. How many more of these does MLS have that are still undiscovered?

Pookie
09-05-2009, 05:07 PM
That's not relevant to the point really...that has to do with having a player's contract pro-rated for playing half the season, it doesn't have anything to do with LA having to create cap-space for Beckham.

Right now we're well over the cap (with the use of allocation money). In order to sign JDG we have to create cap space. At this point in the year, releasing or buying out a player doesn't create cap space. The only way to create cap space now is to trade away a salary. If we can't trade away a big enough salary to fit JDG in, we could trade away a smaller salary if we got some allocation money in the deal too.

But it is relevant.

We do not know how much room we have nor do we know if there is allocation money in the bank. That info is not made public.

We do know that:

a) the team is within the cap (with allocation money) now since it continues to operate
b) at most, De Guzman's cap hit this year would be $80k per the Beckham concession (6 games left after tonight or 20% of the season, 20% of $400k is $80k)

Worst case scenario, we have no allocation money left and are at our max. TFC has 2 choices:

1) Trade a player for no salary in return or at least a net $80k difference

Or:

2) Appeal to the MLS under their allocation rules which allow for allocations to be made under "exceptional circumstances as approved by the Competition Committee." http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview

Again, option 1) is a worst case scenario and at most, we have to move $80k off the roster. This isn't a roster gutting of Guevara, Robinson, Vitti, Barrett, etc. It's likely a single move.... at least for this season.

Roogsy
09-05-2009, 05:08 PM
By the time he gets here, gets adjusted with the team and the manager, and gets settled into the MLS style of play, the season will be pretty much over and our playoff chances would have likely been decided by then.

Next year he'll be running right outta the gate, though.

Exactly bang on. This is too little too late. He isn't a miracle worker. Given a whole season, JDG can dominate this league. But step in and help us win 3 maybe 4 games out of 6? With no time to gel with the team? That's a tall order.

I wanted to see JDG in TFC red as much as anyone, and hopefully this does work out, but the rational side of me just doesn't see it happening.

ArmenJBX
09-05-2009, 05:09 PM
Wow this DP stuff is complicated. From what I gather, part of the DP's salary goes against the cap, the rest is paid through allocation? I dunno :D

If the case of 80k is needed, then can't we get rid of Gabe Gala or something?

WHITEY
09-05-2009, 05:13 PM
Wow this DP stuff is complicated. From what I gather, part of the DP's salary goes against the cap, the rest is paid through allocation? I dunno :D

If the case of 80k is needed, then can't we get rid of Gabe Gala or something?

Oh no, dude, you may just be about to get lit up for that by some Gala lovers on this board LOL.

Pookie
09-05-2009, 05:14 PM
Gala only makes $34k

http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/3_15_09_salary_info_club.pdf

ArmenJBX
09-05-2009, 05:14 PM
Gabe Gala lovers!?

sigh...

Pookie, thanks for that chart, never seen that before :O

wow...Frei needs a raise

CretanBull
09-05-2009, 05:15 PM
Chalk it up to one another highly obscure MLS rule. How many more of these does MLS have that are still undiscovered?

If a team wants to use this exception, it has to approach a player before July 1st - because if a player says "no" the team needs to be able to cut the player and not have the salary count against the cap. If TFC made any such offers, it wouldn't have been to any core player with a big contract (non of them would ever agree to it) we might lose someone like Gabe Gala, which wouldn't be enough to fit in JDG anyway.