Ottawa's Soccer Dream Not Dead?

[Shway]

Looks like Euguene plans for MLS in Ottawa could be all but over, because of a possible hi-jack from the Lansdowne Live Group, to partner with PDL Ottawa Fury and bring them to USL-1 to play at Lansdowne.


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2009/09/01/ottawa-usl-franchise-lansdowne-live.html


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/op...774/story.html (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/op...774/story.html)

http://www.ottawafury.com/fullstory.php?id=1326 (http://www.ottawafury.com/fullstory.php?id=1326)

What do you think?
If this was to happen, how would the franchise do?
The possibilty of more teams in the NCC?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

The soccer public will not support the USL, Just ask Calgary,Toronto and Edmonton..this is not good for soccer in the country..soccer on pointy ball lined fields, run by a cfl group (theres disaster right there). this ownerhsip is looking for
dates for lansdowne and not whats good for soccer...Melnyk is the best and only option for soccer in Ottawa.

[Jay P]

great news.


another local rivalry would be nice, even if its in a different league, a 4th team in the NCC wouldn't hurt at all!

[Sonny Cheeba]

The soccer public will not support the USL, Just ask Calgary,Toronto and Edmonton..this is not good for soccer in the country..soccer on pointy ball lined fields, run by a cfl group (theres disaster right there). this ownerhsip is looking for
dates for lansdowne and not whats good for soccer...Melnyk is the best and only option for soccer in Ottawa.

what about Montreal and Vancouver?

and Ottawa's proximity to Montreal and possible matches with TFC in the Canadian Championship would be very attractive to football supporters in the area.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

great news.


another local rivalry would be nice, even if its in a different league, a 4th team in the NCC wouldn't hurt at all!

this team under any cfl ownership would go under in its first year or second at most. the last thing this sport needs is any connection to the Canadian Faliure League...another team for the NCC, why not just add pub teams from the CSL?? or OSL teams? lets just keep the competition
between Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal...

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

what about Montreal and Vancouver?

and Ottawa's proximity to Montreal and possible matches with TFC in the Canadian Championship would be very attractive to football supporters in the area.

2 decent franchises that will leave USL...and footie fans will not accept pointy ball lines on the field and cant see a cfl team taking the lines off.
but i dont think its too much to worry about the will run the soccer tram into the ground in its first or second( if it gets that far) season. even the CFL team wont last going on Ottawas track record, fans in that city dumped the franchise cause they know the product is crap

[wzhxvy]

Minor league franchise for what is a minor league city...lets be honest

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Minor league franchise for what is a minor league city...lets be honest


people can say that about Toronto too..the Leafs, Jays are no better then minor league teams...Argos?? minor league..Toronto cant get into the NFL..Raptors??

[wzhxvy]

NHL, NBA, MLB and MLS in Toronto.

Ottawa has a NHL franchise and was in serious danger of losing their franchise, not to mention they were granted their franchise because they had owners willing to pay cash upfront, but unfortunately for them, lost their shirt in the process...to be then saved and and owned by a guy from Toronto.

[Shway]

I dont think its that bad, there not looking to draw BMO numbers, certainly not.
I could see the same thing in Hamilton if they fielded a USL team.

There not expecting big, but expecting numbers of the 5k regions.

This would be bad, to the developing of Candian Soccer

[Super Cereal]

If mighty_tfc thinks it's a bad idea, it's probably a good idea.

[Shway]

^^^LOL

[Shway]

Nutrilite has a possibility of being a 6 team:

Toronto
Montreal
Vancouver
Ottawa
Hamilton
London

[Sab0tage]

people can say that about Toronto too..the Leafs, Jays are no better then minor league teams...Argos?? minor league..Toronto cant get into the NFL..Raptors?? Toronto is hardly minor league sports city. Just because the teams aren't amazing doesn't mean it's minor league.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Toronto is hardly minor league sports city. Just because the teams aren't amazing doesn't mean it's minor league.
its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I dont think its that bad, there not looking to draw BMO numbers, certainly not.
I could see the same thing in Hamilton if they fielded a USL team.

There not expecting big, but expecting numbers of the 5k regions.

This would be bad, to the developing of Candian Soccer


Hamilton would be another with pointy ball lines...its funny how many think this would be good for Canadian soccer, yet cryed foul when talk of pointy ball lines at BMO surfaced...HYPOCRATES among the TFC faithful?

[DangerRed]

If mighty_tfc thinks it's a bad idea, it's probably a good idea.

Hahahahaha. So true.

Mighty-tfc, dude, some of the stuff you say on here is soooooo out of left field I don't even know how to react. Not pickin' on ya, though, you're always good for a laugh.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Hahahahaha. So true.

Mighty-tfc, dude, some of the stuff you say on here is soooooo out of left field I don't even know how to react. Not pickin' on ya, though, you're always good for a laugh.


thanks...its take some imagination sometimes :}:D

[Red Skies At Night]

For a franchise to be successful (meaning they don't fold) in the long run it requires a large catchment area to pull fans from. Toronto (GTA) has one of the largest populations in this country and as such can still pull out a decent crowd to keep a franchise going even during their worst days (and Toronto sports fans know about bad days). Ottawa has great sports fans in general (although I was living there when they got the sens franchise and won't comment on how hard it was to GIVE tix away back then) but unfortunately the NCR doesn't have enough people in general to support teams during the bad days (and a new MLS Ottawa franchise will have some bad days to start).

Ottawa one day maybe... but not now.

[Shway]

Hamilton would be another with pointy ball lines...its funny how many think this would be good for Canadian soccer, yet cryed foul when talk of pointy ball lines at BMO surfaced...HYPOCRATES among the TFC faithful?


OMG i was going to making any direct comments towards stupid ones like this . But you made me.

The difference is:

BMO was built SPECIFICALLY FOR SOCCER - so the TFC faithfull didnt want football lines on it, and wanted to keep it specifically for the purpose it was built for. Also it wouldnt look good on the fans,ownership, and city if Toronto FC is to make an impact in the MLS - THE TOP FLIGHT OF SOCCER IN NORTH AMERICA

Hamilton, and Ottawa would be second tenants in the USL-1. there doesnt need any further explanation.

I would like to know how this wouldnt be good, because i look at it as the development of Canadian players.

We all know that American players get more exposure, and ever more to say a better chance of playing in MLS, then canadians.

With more Canadian franchises, the Canadian talent can be more looked at, because of the opportunities the Canadian franchises place for Canadian players.

[Redcoe15]

Nutrilite has a possibility of being a 6 team:

Toronto
Montreal
Vancouver
Ottawa
Hamilton
London
:confused: Would London be ready to make the jump above PDL?

[Redcoe15]

If mighty_tfc thinks it's a bad idea, it's probably a good idea.
I'd put him on my ignore list. But sometimes the accidental comedian posts something so unbelievable that it is to laugh at.

[Sab0tage]

its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues. So because we don`t have a team in ONE of the major leagues, we are therefore a minor league sports city. That makes sense.

[Dirk Diggler]

The soccer public will not support the USL, Just ask Calgary,Toronto and Edmonton..this is not good for soccer in the country..soccer on pointy ball lined fields, run by a cfl group (theres disaster right there). this ownerhsip is looking for
dates for lansdowne and not whats good for soccer...Melnyk is the best and only option for soccer in Ottawa.

I only agree with the bolded part of this post . I really doubt that the group is interested in the sport of soccer ... they just want the additional dates in order to justify the usage of tax payers money for a new stadium.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

OMG i was going to making any direct comments towards stupid ones like this . But you made me.

The difference is:

BMO was built SPECIFICALLY FOR SOCCER - so the TFC faithfull didnt want football lines on it, and wanted to keep it specifically for the purpose it was built for. Also it wouldnt look good on the fans,ownership, and city if Toronto FC is to make an impact in the MLS - THE TOP FLIGHT OF SOCCER IN NORTH AMERICA

Hamilton, and Ottawa would be second tenants in the USL-1. there doesnt need any further explanation.

I would like to know how this wouldnt be good, because i look at it as the development of Canadian players.

We all know that American players get more exposure, and ever more to say a better chance of playing in MLS, then canadians.

With more Canadian franchises, the Canadian talent can be more looked at, because of the opportunities the Canadian franchises place for Canadian players.


good for players playing yes..but real footie fans wont want to pay money watching footie on cfl lined fields, thats a given. USL is not going to last
and soccer would be better off if it did...they are going to lose vancouver and Portland their two top teams leaving only mediocre pish franchise left...Hamilton and OTtawa would be Better off having franchises in the CSL, that way canadian players can play and still have a league to play in.

[Yeoman]

:confused: Would London be ready to make the jump above PDL?

did you see attendance rates this year?
higher then some of the USL-1 crowds. pulling in 1k+ per game easily.
with the proximity to Ottawa, I know that I would buy seasons for it if they came about with a USL-1.

[rocker]

London would be cool... there's nothing else to do there!!!! heheh.
I spent a year in London, including a summer, and that summer was pretty goddamn boring.
Captive audience for footy there.

[barticusz]

Being from London, our PDL team took off right away in its inaugural season. The crowds weren't massive but the fact that people consistently went out to support the team game after game does show that there is interest. There were numerous articles written with the owners saying how extremely happy they were with the initial success and they are thrilled to move forward. There has already been talk (however small) about a stadium being built.

[Keystone FC]

Nutrilite has a possibility of being a 6 team:

Toronto
Montreal
Vancouver
Ottawa
Hamilton
London

Don't forget Victoria who have stated they want to take the USL place of Vancouver when they make the jump to th MLS.
I think this is good news not only for USL and Ottawa but for the NCC and Canadian soccer as well. Plus, like others have mentioned, with Montreal still in the USL (For how long we don't know) the matchups between those two would be intense.
:canada::flare:

[ilikemusic]

So because we don`t have a team in ONE of the major leagues, we are therefore a minor league sports city. That makes sense.

Consider who you are talking to.

[TorCanSoc]

I think the success of the Nutralite Cdn Championships has opened some eyes to how entertaining Canadian rivalries can be. I think Ottawa would be a great addition to USL-1.

They do have new owners (USL), so we'll need to see what direction they are going to take the league in general.

[Cashcleaner]

its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues.


Ahhh, so we finally get the real story from you here. You don't think a city can ever call itself Major League unless it has an NFL club. Gotcha. And of course that must apply to Los Angeles as well as Toronto. Oh, forget about the Lakers and Clippers. Forget about the Kings. Forget about the Angels and Dodgers. LA - you don't make the grade 'cause you don't have an NFL franchise.

As for Ottawa, I really think a USL club playing downtown won't draw nearly as much as an MLS franchise in the same location. Melnyk just won't get enough people going out to his proposed stadium in Kanata so there are limited options here to work with. A USL-1 team could make it, but I think success will be finite. One scenario I could see happening is the CFL team folding (again) and the soccer club taking over the facility.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Good for them, i hope they are successful in the USL

[twistedchinaman]

Ottawa is good -- but in USL-1 or -2 at the very best.
This goes the same for Edmonton, which is perhaps the best chance of any city in the West to get and sustain a team.

An NCC could be like this:
- MLS: TFC, Vancouver
- USL1: Montreal, Ottawa, Alberta (Edmonton)
- USL2: London, Victoria, Hamilton
- PDL: Abbotsford, etc.
- CSL...

[KrazyKanadian]

Why would anyone put a soccer franchise in Ottawa? It's Ottawa!

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Ottawa is good -- but in USL-1 or -2 at the very best.
This goes the same for Edmonton, which is perhaps the best chance of any city in the West to get and sustain a team.

An NCC could be like this:
- MLS: TFC, Vancouver
- USL1: Montreal, Ottawa, Alberta (Edmonton)
- USL2: London, Victoria, Hamilton
- PDL: Abbotsford, etc.
- CSL...

Hamilton has expressed interest in a USL-1 team, as has Victoria I believe - the latter city might move up to the first division once Vancouver is established in MLS.

[daner90]

I really don't see how this could be bad for Canadian soccer. Another team in another market with opportunity to grow the sport. Whether their are lines on the field or not is rather irrelevant. Would you prefer they dont expose the game at all?

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I really don't see how this could be bad for Canadian soccer. Another team in another market with opportunity to grow the sport. Whether their are lines on the field or not is rather irrelevant. Would you prefer they dont expose the game at all?

This is how I view this opportunity as well. For the better part of this decade, we've had only three professional soccer teams in this country. With Ottawa joining USL-1, our pro contingent will increase by 33% overnight. We need more pro teams in this country, and any new teams in MLS or USL-1 help a lot.

As for lines on the pitch, obviously no footy enthusiast wants this, but it is less of an issue for USL-1 teams than for MLS teams. As long as Ottawa has a soccer-friendly stadium and at least decent field turf, then a USL-1 team should have all the necessary infrastructure to thrive in that city.

[Kaz]

I'm confused.... The Raptors made the playoffs last year, the Blue Jays finished top 3rd of the league. the Leafs are well.. the Leafs. And the Argos are one of the oldest sports teams in North America.

As for the USL in Ottawa, I think that at the USL level with less then 15k in the stadium a game you have to live with multi purpose lines.

Hamilton, Ottawa, Halifax, and Edmonton are all cities I'd like to see a USL-1 or 2 team in... Canadian Football lines or not.. (The CFL has every right to be called Canadian Football, it was after all a Rugby Football Union in name until the 1950s) No MLS team or any other team with 15k+ in attendance should have any other sports lines visible on the pitch

[Red Baron]

best of luck

[maninb]

its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues.


LMAO!!! The NFL SUCKS!!! 3.5 hours to play a game where the ball is actually IN MOTION for 13 minutes!!!!! The ONLY reason it's popular is because of gambling/pools...just look at the disaster that the Bills experienced with their Toronto home games experiment!!!

[Shakes McQueen]

its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues.

Where do you come up with these asinine concepts, mighty?

So in order for a single city to be a "major league sports city", it has to have one of all of the major sports leagues? Do you know how many major US markets don't have NHL teams - or have sports franchises that are failing badly?

I really don't know how your brain works.

- Scott

[london_tfc_fan]

its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues.

screw the NFL i'd rather watch grass grow Toronto is a major league city simply becuase they do not accept teams like the Toronto Lynx, Marlies, Argos etc!

[Redcoe15]

Ottawa is good -- but in USL-1 or -2 at the very best.
This goes the same for Edmonton, which is perhaps the best chance of any city in the West to get and sustain a team.

An NCC could be like this:
- MLS: TFC, Vancouver
- USL1: Montreal, Ottawa, Alberta (Edmonton)
- USL2: London, Victoria, Hamilton
- PDL: Abbotsford, etc.
- CSL...
You think Montreal has no chance to join MLS, twisted?

[Fort York Redcoat]

How am I a hypocrite if i don't care what Ottawa plays on? Until they're in the Vcup and WE play on their pitch I don't give a toss. If they upgrade their league status it's better for footie in Canada. Period. The rest is gravy.

If major means NFL then thank god we're not.

Wait, Isn't Ottawa your "second" NHL team, mighty? Who's your second MLS team?

Ridiculous.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I'm not much of a fan of status symbols. I could care less about Toronto's status as a major league sports town. An NFL team represents a shiny sports car to me; if that's something that a group of fans want, they are entitled to their collective opinion. Seeing as how I only care about teams that I like to watch and not necessarily teams that portray a certain image for a city, I don't give a rat's ass if Toronto lands a shiny new NFL team. I'm not about to jump on the bandwagon of every league and every sport that is in vogue.

[twistedchinaman]

You think Montreal has no chance to join MLS, twisted?

At the moment they're not in, and no one has any idea when Saputo's head will shrink enough to fit into the MLS door.

An NCC, if Montreal makes it, would look like this:

MLS: TFC, Montreal, Vancouver
USL1: Victoria, Alberta (a.k.a. Edmonton)
USL2: London, Hamilton, Ottawa (changed my mind here)
PDL: Abbotsford, Thunder Bay, etc.
CSL: Trois Rivieres, etc.

The PDL and CSL would be a knockout stage 1, which will lead to the USL teams joining in stage 2, upon which the final 2 will join the MLS teams in a 5-way final round-robin tournament. So it could end up being:

- TFC
- Montreal
- Vancouver
- Abbotsford (PDL)
- Alberta (USL1)

From Bateman Park (1,200) to Commonwealth Stadium (60,000+), that could be some good ones...

[Cashcleaner]

Montreal getting an MLS franchise is pretty much a sure-thing now that Vancouver is on board. Saputo and his customers aren't going to sit around in USL while TFC and the Whitecaps are having all the fun in the top flight. Sure, it's not cast in stone, but I just don't see them saying no to MLS.

[RealG-TFC]

It's gotta be USL-1.

USL-2 is useless.

[Mark in Ottawa]

This was the idea I floated about 2 years ago... Montreal to MLS, Ottawa takes there place in USL-1 and possibly becomes an affiliate of Montreal and/or Toronto where players could be placed on loan and get valuable playing experience.

USL-1 can work in Ottawa if it is marketed correctly. The baseball Lynx were hugely successful until the Montreal Expos raided the franchise for all of its talent in the "fire sale" before they moved and severed relations with the team. Marketing was abysmal after that and the team was doomed.

CFL? Absentee owners with little clue doomed them to failure over and over.

With committed local ownership and a good marketing plan a soccer franchise can indeed succeed.

Of course they have no stadium and the local lobby groups are hard at it attempting to analyse it all to death which may derail the whole deal... yet again.

I wish em luck. The more teams in Canada the better.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^ewww. "affiliate". You think your fellow citzens from Ottawa would care to be an affiliate to Montreal for anything?

[Super Cereal]

^ewww. "affiliate". You think your fellow citzens from Ottawa would care to be an affiliate to Montreal for anything?
As an Ottawa Valley resident, fuck no!

[Keystone FC]

It's gotta be USL-1.

USL-2 is useless.

I wouldn't say Useless. I'd say filler and a possible play in match against a PDL or CSL squad, but right now it's all academic as there are no Canadian USL-2 squads.

[Keystone FC]

I'm wondering about the possibility of the 'new league' that some of the USL squads are looking at. Both Montreal and Vancouver are mentioned as a part of this group. Even though Vancouver comes into the MLS in 2011 could it put a damper on the NCC if FIFA, CONCACAF, or CSA doesn't recognize the new league and Montreal and Vancouver are apart of it? Would there still be a NCC? Does FIFA, CSA, or CONCACAF have to give it's blessing in order for the NCC to be legit?
I'm sure we could probably go the route of PDL clubs or CSL if Montreal and Vancouver are not recognized but would that make the NCC less important?

[flatpicker]

^ excuse my ignorance... but what new league are you referring to?

[Chewy Unikronik]

^ excuse my ignorance... but what new league are you referring to?
This one:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=672874&sec=mls&campaign=rss&source=soccernet&cc=5901

[flatpicker]

^ oh, I see...

How many independent pro leagues do we need in North America?

It's gonna get silly very soon!

without relegation, this is all bonkers!

[mmmikey]

its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues.


by this RIDICULOUS logic... LA is not a major league city either. they don't have the NFL.

stupid.

[Macksam]

its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues.
I guess LA is minor league as well.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Ottawa is good -- but in USL-1 or -2 at the very best.
This goes the same for Edmonton, which is perhaps the best chance of any city in the West to get and sustain a team.

An NCC could be like this:
- MLS: TFC, Vancouver
- USL1: Montreal, Ottawa, Alberta (Edmonton)
- USL2: London, Victoria, Hamilton
- PDL: Abbotsford, etc.
- CSL...


'Edmonton aviators ..A league aka USL remember them doubt many in edmonton do they failed to support the team and it died..Calgary also did the same thing..so forget alberta as a soccer market..

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I guess LA is minor league as well.
could be Hockey is not supported well, if it was not for baseball and basketball LA would be the toronto of the west coast sports.

[Shakes McQueen]

could be Hockey is not supported well, if it was not for baseball and basketball LA would be the toronto of the west coast sports.

This statement makes NO SENSE.

"If it wasn't for the NBA and MLB teams LA has, they would be the Toronto of the west coast!!"

... except that Toronto has sports teams in MLB and NBA too, so how would not having NBA and MLB teams make LA like Toronto?

Stunning.

- Scott

[Macksam]

could be Hockey is not supported well, if it was not for baseball and basketball LA would be the toronto of the west coast sports.
Well, than I guess Toronto would be on par with LA as Toronto and baskteball are supported well, but baseball not so much.

[Mark in Ottawa]

^ewww. "affiliate". You think your fellow citzens from Ottawa would care to be an affiliate to Montreal for anything?
It's just symantics. I used "affiliate" instead of the North American term "Farm Team" because the Ottawa franchise would not be owned by the corporate entities from Montreal or Toronto but would be an easy and close locale for the higher league teams to place players needing more seasoning and playing time on loan like they do in other soccer jurisdictions.

As to being affiliated with Montreal... it worked great with the Expos and the Ottawa Lynx. We got to see up and coming baseball players in the intimate atmosphere of AAA ball. We got to know the players and often had a chance to actually meet and socialize with many of them. When they got promoted it was quite a big deal and it was terrific to be able to drive a few hours up the road and cheer them on in the big league.

The idea of double affiliations has worked before in North America in both baseball and hockey. Some American hockey league teams were almost entirely made up of signed draft picks from more than one NHL franchise.

Again... it all depends upon the right management team and a good marketing plan.

O and of course the team has to show steady improvement and win in the long run. Ottawa is notoriously hard on perpetual losing teams.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^That's great that you folks enjoyed the accessability of the Lynx. I'm just surprised there wouldn't be more of a city rivalry more akin to our own here in Toronto and Montreal.

Anyway, I would prefer to see an independent club for your city. We are hoping they'd play each other in the Vcup, no?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

This statement makes NO SENSE.

"If it wasn't for the NBA and MLB teams LA has, they would be the Toronto of the west coast!!"

... except that Toronto has sports teams in MLB and NBA too, so how would not having NBA and MLB teams make LA like Toronto?

Stunning.

- Scott


LA has a loser Hockey team = Toronto does too
LA has has the Clippers nba + toronto has the equally bad raptors
LA has no NFL team=ditto for toronto
LA has the woeful dodgers and Toronto the hapless jays

so LA and Toronto do support crap franchises...except LA has the Lakers
a team that always contends!!

[rocker]

LA has the woeful dodgers and Toronto the hapless jays

umm.. dodgers are in first place...

dodgers won their division last year too...

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

umm.. dodgers are in first place...

dodgers won their division last year too...

going to have to pay attention to the NL more often:facepalm:

[Cannon]

umm.. dodgers are in first place...

dodgers won their division last year too...

Stop it with all that logic you keep using!

[S_D]

This one:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=672874&sec=mls&campaign=rss&source=soccernet&cc=5901

Until this gets sorted I think Ottawa would be nuts to try and get in the USL. From what I see, it is the big boys in the league that are leading this.

I sometimes wonder with all of the top USL teams bailing to MLS if the USL and USL 2 are eventually going to have to merge.

[Keystone FC]

Until this gets sorted I think Ottawa would be nuts to try and get in the USL. From what I see, it is the big boys in the league that are leading this.

I sometimes wonder with all of the top USL teams bailing to MLS if the USL and USL 2 are eventually going to have to merge.

If a merge happens I could see alot of USL 2 clubs either go into the PDL or just fold. Most of them are in th '2' due to financial reasons and would not be able to maintain a competitive club, unless the USL helps with financials.
I think we will know something by November. If the TOAs want to start a new league it will take time to set up so they will have start as soon as possible if they want this league by 2010.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Until this gets sorted I think Ottawa would be nuts to try and get in the USL. From what I see, it is the big boys in the league that are leading this.

I sometimes wonder with all of the top USL teams bailing to MLS if the USL and USL 2 are eventually going to have to merge.


Ottawa will never accept USL football...its not MLS...Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary all failed to support USL...The best thing for north american football is for the USL to go under...then maybe MLS could add a lower
devolpment league ( no promotion/relegaion shite) where cities like Montreal, Edmonton and Calgary could fit it..then after a while if those teams are well supported then move up to MLS proper.

[AL-MO]

If a merge happens I could see alot of USL 2 clubs either go into the PDL or just fold. Most of them are in th '2' due to financial reasons and would not be able to maintain a competitive club, unless the USL helps with financials.
I think we will know something by November. If the TOAs want to start a new league it will take time to set up so they will have start as soon as possible if they want this league by 2010.

What about the NPSL (National Premier Soccer League)?

I think keemo-sabi would be able to provide more info.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I hope that won't happen. The present setup seems to be moving toward the european model with "promotion" happening in a NA sort of way. A merger I think would hinder that.

[bee dubya]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=181317

Another stadium proposal for Ottawa.

[Bender]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=181317

Another stadium proposal for Ottawa.

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Source: http://communities.canada.com/OTTAWACITIZEN/blogs/designingottawa/archive/2010/05/01/an-early-look-at-the-frank-clair-stadium.aspx

[Super Cereal]

That's beautiful!

Edit - Except for the football lines. Anyone have a link to the article? Edit2 - Nevermind, found it.

[WhoAteAllthePie]

What about the NPSL (National Premier Soccer League)?

I think keemo-sabi would be able to provide more info.

Keem would have to verify, but I'm pretty sure NPSL is lower than the PDL. I'm pretty sure all players are still considered Amateur. The league is there for college players to have a league to play in after their respective college seasons and still keep their amateur status... meaning they don't get paid. As I said before Keem would have to verify that, Because I'm not 100% sure ...

[J .]

I could see them in MLS. Perhaps they relocate a dying franchise there. I think ottawa could bring 15,000 a game in. It would be huge for Canadian soccer to have four MLS teams in a 20 team league... Would be huge for us.

[FOGES]

i think ottawa would be alright. they basically just have the sens, so i dont see why (if they actually played in the city) they couldnt get 3-5 k, per game if not more. a nice rivalry with toronto & montreal. an NCC tourney with TFC, VWFC, Limpact, Edmonton and Ottawa would be sweet.

beyond that, i dunno about london, but certainly the GTA or hamilton could do well with a USL team i would imagine.

[Cashcleaner]

Ottawa is infuriating to gauge properly. I really don't now what to think anymore about their prospects of an MLS franchise - or even an NASL club for that matter. All I know for sure is that a plan that puts a stadium out in Kanata would be a total failure. A venue at Landsdowne or another central site would be best, no doubt.

Just really hard to say how a club there would turn out.

[Bender]

i think ottawa would be alright. they basically just have the sens, so i dont see why (if they actually played in the city) they couldnt get 3-5 k, per game if not more. a nice rivalry with toronto & montreal. an NCC tourney with TFC, VWFC, Limpact, Edmonton and Ottawa would be sweet.

beyond that, i dunno about london, but certainly the GTA or hamilton could do well with a USL team i would imagine.

To my understanding Hamilton is getting a team with the new stadium being built for the Pan-Am Games...

[FOGES]

^^^ ruspek

[Blixa]

its not major league either..till its gets a NFL team... then they can claim they have a team in the top flight leagues of North america=major leagues.

From a commercial standpoint Toronto sure is major league.

[deltox]

i just want hamilton and Ottawa in the USL..... epic NCC

[RealG-TFC]

i just want hamilton and Ottawa in the USL..... epic NCC

Agreed.

[Red CB Toronto]

Well Landown at least much better than the proposal I read a while back about having a USL/NASL entry playing out of the baseball stadium in our nation's capital.

[Keystone FC]

I could see them in MLS. Perhaps they relocate a dying franchise there. I think ottawa could bring 15,000 a game in. It would be huge for Canadian soccer to have four MLS teams in a 20 team league... Would be huge for us.
Okay..which one? Not to mention there are a few US markets out there that the league would want to put a franchise before putting it in Ottawa.
Ottawa in MLS...nope. Ottawa in NASL/USL...yep.
Saputo has said that he wants to keep a club in the NASL when they come to MLS. Ottawa wouldn't be a bad choice for Saputo to put his replacement franchise.

[Cashcleaner]

Well Landown at least much better than the proposal I read a while back about having a USL/NASL entry playing out of the baseball stadium in our nation's capital.

I think that particular proposal was more about justifying the initial expense of the stadium moreso than building a viable soccer park on the existing site. At least, that's the feeling I get when I look at it.

[drewski]

I think that particular proposal was more about justifying the initial expense of the stadium moreso than building a viable soccer park on the existing site. At least, that's the feeling I get when I look at it.


ya, I remember that article (might have even posted it), and it seemed like a make work project for somebody looking to justify keeping the stadium around. IIRC, it had other suggestion for the stadium too.

would love to see a MLS team at Landsdowne but given the only possible owner who's shown interest in the MLS so far is Melnyk, I won't hold my breath.

[drewski]

Okay..which one? Not to mention there are a few US markets out there that the league would want to put a franchise before putting it in Ottawa.
Ottawa in MLS...nope. Ottawa in NASL/USL...yep.
Saputo has said that he wants to keep a club in the NASL when they come to MLS. Ottawa wouldn't be a bad choice for Saputo to put his replacement franchise.


Ottawa Fury owner and the guys behind the new Landsdowne project (including Jeff Hunt, 67's & new CFL team owner) have already applied for a tier 2 team in Ottawa

http://www.uslsoccer.com/home/361425.html

[J .]

Okay..which one? Not to mention there are a few US markets out there that the league would want to put a franchise before putting it in Ottawa.
Ottawa in MLS...nope. Ottawa in NASL/USL...yep.
Saputo has said that he wants to keep a club in the NASL when they come to MLS. Ottawa wouldn't be a bad choice for Saputo to put his replacement franchise.


Chivas or FC Dallas would be one of the first choices, one in St Louis, the other in Ottawa :)

However, Ottawa is likely down the list of potential locations. Just a dream.

[mednus]

Ottawa Fury owner and the guys behind the new Landsdowne project (including Jeff Hunt, 67's & new CFL team owner) have already applied for a tier 2 team in Ottawa

http://www.uslsoccer.com/home/361425.html


That was before the TOA/USL mess. I hope they make the move to the NASL with Edmonton and hopefully Hamilton!

[drewski]

That was before the TOA/USL mess. I hope they make the move to the NASL with Edmonton and hopefully Hamilton!


but the point of getting a team (revenue from tenants) is still in place.

[Keystone FC]

Chivas or FC Dallas would be one of the first choices, one in St Louis, the other in Ottawa :)

However, Ottawa is likely down the list of potential locations. Just a dream.
Chivas will most likely stay in LA and build themselves a new SSS in the burbs, or move down to San Diego. FCD has been linked to San Antonio, and being bought by the NBA Spurs, if there is a move.
Ottawa is still a market to consider but for more along the lines of NASL or USL 1 whichever comes out on top in the USSF Div. II race.

[Keystone FC]

That was before the TOA/USL mess. I hope they make the move to the NASL with Edmonton and hopefully Hamilton!


but the point of getting a team (revenue from tenants) is still in place.
Correct. The dream is still alive in Ottawa for a club. Like Drewski said everything is still in place for the possibility for a pro club it's just a matter of where Ottawa will go and who will try to court them.
And to the point of what Mednus said the whole thing will come to light once the NASL/USL matter is resolved.

[hamiltonfan]

If Eugene Melnyk, owner of the Sens and Coral Centre, is set on bringing an MLS team to Ottawa then an MLS team will be in Ottawa. Simple as that.

Once the stadium issue is figured out in Ottawa look for the wheels to start turning on MLS Ottawa. A CFL and MLS team should be able to share a venue, CFL has 9 home dates. Aslong as the american football lines can be removed everything is good.

[deltox]

Its not as simple as that.

he is not friggin luke skywalker.


i doubt that there will ever be more than 3 CDN teams in the MLS.


NASL will work though

[Cashcleaner]

If Eugene Melnyk, owner of the Sens and Coral Centre, is set on bringing an MLS team to Ottawa then an MLS team will be in Ottawa. Simple as that.

Once the stadium issue is figured out in Ottawa look for the wheels to start turning on MLS Ottawa. A CFL and MLS team should be able to share a venue, CFL has 9 home dates. Aslong as the american football lines can be removed everything is good.

Money. That's what determines who gets a franchise and who doesn't. It's simple mathematics, really. If a potential owner can front the franchise fee and has the appropriate assets in place, they get the franchise. Melnyk has a metric assload of cash and a long-term business plan in place. If he truly wants an MLS club in Ottawa and no-one else can match or exceed what he brings to the table, he'll get exactly what he wants.

Conference parity means NOTHING.
Soccer-Specific Stadia means NOTHING.
Cash means EVERYTHING.

[drewski]

If Eugene Melnyk, owner of the Sens and Coral Centre, is set on bringing an MLS team to Ottawa then an MLS team will be in Ottawa. Simple as that.

Once the stadium issue is figured out in Ottawa look for the wheels to start turning on MLS Ottawa. A CFL and MLS team should be able to share a venue, CFL has 9 home dates. Aslong as the american football lines can be removed everything is good.


the primary reason Melnyk wants a team in Ottawa is so he can make better use of his his holdings in Kanata. I really can't see him willing to pay for an MLS team that plays in a stadium he doesn't own or control.

So I just don't see Melnyk/MLS and Hunt/CFL working, unless he buys the group leading the redesign of Landsowne, which, while possible, doesn't strike me as probable.

[deltox]

if it was a case of ....." if he wants it....its done"

then it would have worked the last time he tried a few yrs ago.

[Cashcleaner]

^ No, because both Portland and Vancouver had the money and better business plans at the time. They were willing to spend the cash and work out their respective stadium proposals. Therefore, they got the franchises before Ottawa.

Again, it was money and a sound plan that secured their franchises.

The fact that Ottawa didn't get a franchise during the last round of expansion doesn't negate the reality that money paid up-front and potential profits of a market are what drives the franchise program with MLS. If anything, it reinforces it.

[drewski]

agreed.

the question marks over stadiums, (which will city council support, would Melnyk be willing to use Landsdowne if his stadium didn't get support) were a huge issue. cause if Melnyk didn't get his stadium and wans't willign tio use Landsdowne, it would looked bad on MLS if he had then backed out

[Redcoe15]

the primary reason Melnyk wants a team in Ottawa is so he can make better use of his his holdings in Kanata. I really can't see him willing to pay for an MLS team that plays in a stadium he doesn't own or control.

So I just don't see Melnyk/MLS and Hunt/CFL working, unless he buys the group leading the redesign of Landsowne, which, while possible, doesn't strike me as probable.
Agreed. This wasn't about love of the game for Melnyk so much as it was trying to get public funds to build him a stadium out in Kanata. Otherwise he would have built it himself with his own money, which he has plenty of.

[Cashcleaner]

the primary reason Melnyk wants a team in Ottawa is so he can make better use of his his holdings in Kanata. I really can't see him willing to pay for an MLS team that plays in a stadium he doesn't own or control.

So I just don't see Melnyk/MLS and Hunt/CFL working, unless he buys the group leading the redesign of Landsowne, which, while possible, doesn't strike me as probable.

Please explain.

Because I don't think anyone goes to the trouble of building a stadium, paying an exorbitant franchise fee, and fronting the various start-up and operational costs involved without wanting to turn a profit. I totally agree that from Melnyk's point-of-view there is great business sense in putting the stadium out in Kanata and for him the potential benefits outweigh the risks, but I don't think his primary concern is building the stadium for the sake of having it where he wants.

[Mark in Ottawa]

Please explain.

Because I don't think anyone goes to the trouble of building a stadium, paying an exorbitant franchise fee, and fronting the various start-up and operational costs involved without wanting to turn a profit. I totally agree that from Melnyk's point-of-view there is great business sense in putting the stadium out in Kanata and for him the potential benefits outweigh the risks, but I don't think his primary concern is building the stadium for the sake of having it where he wants.
It was simply a case of Melnyk presenting an alternative stadium plan given that at the time, and still, there was quite a bit of opposition to rebuilding a major sports facility at Landsdowne park in the city centre.

If he could get the focus switched to his plan in Kanata and get some funding then it was a low risk for him with all of the cash flow coming his way. As far as we know he never approached or was approached by the Landsdowne redevelopment consortium to become a part of it.

Given the city governments slow movement on getting anything done regarding a sports stadium it is pretty obvious that he was not gonna get much support for his plan. Two stadiums is simply not on and so Melnyk has to wait to see if plan B would become the preferred option.

[Keystone FC]

If Eugene Melnyk, owner of the Sens and Coral Centre, is set on bringing an MLS team to Ottawa then an MLS team will be in Ottawa. Simple as that.
Only if Melnyk can buy a MLS club and move them to Ottawa cause after Vancouver and Montreal come into the league MLS is DONE with Canada. Now that is not to say that other Canadian cities (Edmonton, Calgary, Winnepeg) can't come into MLS but it would be an owner moving the club or someone in those cities buying and moving a club to those cities.
I think at best Ottawa is looking at USL/NASL Div. II club and maybe one of the clubs for a new CSL.

[werewolf]

Proposed re-design, article doesn`t talk about soccer much, but the pictures have soccer lines - http://tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=322816

Gallery - http://www.tsn.ca/window/gallery/?id=374

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/2010/5/27/lansdowneq_56797.jpg

[Macksam]

Only if Melnyk can buy a MLS club and move them to Ottawa cause after Vancouver and Montreal come into the league MLS is DONE with Canada. Now that is not to say that other Canadian cities (Edmonton, Calgary, Winnepeg) can't come into MLS but it would be an owner moving the club or someone in those cities buying and moving a club to those cities.
I think at best Ottawa is looking at USL/NASL Div. II club and maybe one of the clubs for a new CSL.
I think it would be the other way around. I doubt they would approve an existing franchise in America to move to Canada unless the MLS were really desperate. Buying an MLS club is still a possibility.

[Keystone FC]

I think it would be the other way around. I doubt they would approve an existing franchise in America to move to Canada unless the MLS were really desperate. Buying an MLS club is still a possibility.
It would depend on the circumstances. I would think something along the lines of the Coyotes in the NHL.
Let's say, for fun and delight, the Crew's owner is looking to sell the club and no Columbus or Ohio moneybags comes to the rescue to keep the club in Ohio like MLS would want.
I would think the MLS would 'buy' or 'run' the Crew in Columbus until an owner is found. Then I would think if they HAVE to move the club they would look for an owner in Detroit, Indianapolis, StL (:smilielol5:), Milwaukee, and maybe Pittsburgh or Nashville to keep the club close to the market. If after that and still no owner to show for it or owners who are delusional THEN I think MLS would consider Ottawa.
It's a long shot but remember that MLS clubs are franchises of MLS and not independant entities.
I would also think MLS would rather have a club in Ottawa than to fold a club. IT didn't look good when they did it to Tampa and Miami and it wouldn't look good now either.

[drewski]

i really like the look of the new stand. not crazy about the existing one but given what they had to work with, its not too bad.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

As a number of people have already said, there is no way Melnyk is going to pay for a team to play out of a stadium that he doesn't control. The only way we are going to see MLS at Lansdowne is if the OSEG group decide they want to seek a franchise and to date they have not mentioned anything about that. Quite the opposite in fact, they have been working with the Ottawa Fury to bring USL-1 or NASL or whatever second division soccer exists when, and if, they get the stadium refurbished.

[james]

soccer on pointy ball lines wont work in this country!

will Ottawa get behind a 2nd League team?

Ottawa is also a pretty small city dispite the city saying it has 1 million people. When looked at Ottawa is built more like a small urban area here and there spread out over a large area, would Ottawa fans travel long distances for games? could Ottawa support a team??

Ottawa City Population: 812,000
City area: 2,778 km/2
City density: 292 per km/2
Metro pop: 1.1 million (land area 5,318 km/2)

Calgary City population: 988,000
City area: 726 km/2
City Density: 1,435 per km/2
Metro Pop. : 1,079,000 (land area 5,107 km/2)

Montreal City Population: 1.6 million
City area: 365 km/2
City Density: 4,439 per km/2
Urban pop: 3.3 million (land area 1,677 km/2)
Metro pop: 3.6 million ( land area 4,259 km/2)

Toronto City: 2.5 million
City area: 630 km/2
City Density: 3,972 per km/2
Toronto Urban pop. : 4.7 million (land area 1,749 km/2)
Toronto metro pop : 5.1 million (land area 7,125 km/2)

Vancouver City Populatiuon: 578,000
City area: 114.67 km/2
City Density: 5,335 per km/2
Metro Pop: 2.1 million (land area 2,116 km/2)

Hamilton City Population: 504,000
City area: 1,138 km/2
City Density: 451 per km/2
Metro pop. 692,000 (land area 1,371 km/2)

As you see the Ottawa city area is rediculously huge. The city of Ottawa is more like a whole Metro area for other cities. If you were to break ottawa down to about the size of the city of Toronto and just count the population of main Ottawa its very likely Ottawa is maybe half a million people or less.

[james]

and just for the hell of it look at New York City

NYC pop: 8.3 million
City area: 468 km/2
City Density: 10,606 per km/2
Urabn Pop: 18.2 million (land area 3,352 km/2)
Metro pop: 19 million (land area 6,720 km/2)

crazy!

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

soccer on pointy ball lines wont work in this country!

will Ottawa get behind a 2nd League team?

It's tough to say if Ottawa would get behind a 2nd league team. I struggle with what the atmosphere will be like if they draw the league average of around 5,000 in a 24,000 seat stadium with open ends (and pointy ball lines on the pitch). Let's face it, there likely won't be much atmosphere, which means you are going to rely on die-hard fans, rather than converting casual fans based on the product.

However, there are close to 100,000 registered soccer players in Ottawa, with 50,000 suiting up most weeks. A recent poll for OSEG, the group trying to being the CFL back, found that 48% or respondents wanted professional soccer.

I was at the TFC/KC game on Saturday and I'm convinced MLS would draw well here. A second division team would as well in a 10,000 seat SSS. At Lansdowne Park? Anybody's guess.

[Billy the kid]

I think if Montreal and Vancouver are successful like Toronto, there will be a renewed push for an MLS team in Ottawa.

[drewski]

It's tough to say if Ottawa would get behind a 2nd league team. I struggle with what the atmosphere will be like if they draw the league average of around 5,000 in a 24,000 seat stadium with open ends (and pointy ball lines on the pitch). Let's face it, there likely won't be much atmosphere, which means you are going to rely on die-hard fans, rather than converting casual fans based on the product.

However, there are close to 100,000 registered soccer players in Ottawa, with 50,000 suiting up most weeks. A recent poll for OSEG, the group trying to being the CFL back, found that 48% or respondents wanted professional soccer.

I was at the TFC/KC game on Saturday and I'm convinced MLS would draw well here. A second division team would as well in a 10,000 seat SSS. At Lansdowne Park? Anybody's guess.

agreed.

Ottawa definitely seems like far more of a soccer city than it does a football city. Even driving around, yous see tons of cars with OSU (ottawa south united) stickers or soccer balls hanging from rearview mirrors.

BUT, a 2nd tier franchise in a big open stadium like that probably won't work out so well.

[james]

my guess, and this is just me guessing....but if Ottawa was to get a MLS team and a Stadium built down town Ottawa, such as where Landsdowne stadium is, with 24,000 seats or less Ottawa will get at least 15,000 -20,000 fans a game. Which is better then probably 70% of the current MLS teams.

Now if they have to share a new stadium with a Ottawa football team i think it could work if they play on a field like Seattle Sounders. And again the stadium is rather small with 24,000 or less seats and have it built more like BMO field with seats behind the net that can move back for football games. Now if the pointy ball lines are visible on the field however the city wont take the Soccer team serious.

A 2nd division team will mainly rely on diehards or young families, and will get under 10,000 fans a game. Might draw better if they could play in a 10,000 - 15,000 seat stadium, but a 24,000 seat stadium would hurt the atmsophere at a 2nd division level with the stadium felling 2/3rds empty.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

Does anyone think that second division soccer is likely to be successful in a 24,000 seat stadium in Ottawa? Has anyone spoken to John Pugh to ask him why he thinks the Fury will succeed under those conditions?

Personally I think he is just being used by OSEG, who saw a chance to get some soccer fans to support the Lansdowne stadium renovation rather than pushing council to support Melnyk's Kanata stadium.

[DichioTFC]

personally, i want soccer in ottawa but i can't foresee ottawa supporting a losing franchise (which is the inevitability for most teams, most seasons).

Ottawa has potential to be a great MLS city, but I just can't see them support a losing team.. to much cynicism perhaps? For all the good and bad that people have to say about Toronto fans, they will support their team win or lose.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

I'm tempted to say that it is because Toronto fans have had so much practice supporting losing teams, but in reality I have nothing but respect for the way they support their teams.

All teams will experience a drop-off of support when they go through long losing spells because their fan bases are made up of hard-core fans who will always go to support their team, and casual fans who will jump on and off the bandwagon at will.

With Toronto's large population base, they seem to have enough of the hard core fans to ride out the lean years in both hockey and soccer. Could Ottawa do that with MLS? There is really only one way to tell and that is to put a team here and see. My feeling is that they could, based on the explosive growth in soccer here, and the large number of ex-pat Europeans based here.

[Mark in Ottawa]

With Toronto's large population base, they seem to have enough of the hard core fans to ride out the lean years in both hockey and soccer. Could Ottawa do that with MLS? There is really only one way to tell and that is to put a team here and see. My feeling is that they could, based on the explosive growth in soccer here, and the large number of ex-pat Europeans based here.
A little marketing with the ethnic communities in Ottawa (yes they are smaller that Toronto... but they do exist here) along with some promotions with the various minor soccer associations (ala the Ottawa 67's) would go far.

Were the nations capital for god sake... embassies and consulates all over the place from parts of the world where soccer really matters located all over the city. You would think a smart marketer would use some of that and have different "nation days" with cultural exhibits and maybe even special food offerings to generate interest.

[drewski]

A little marketing with the ethnic communities in Ottawa (yes they are smaller that Toronto... but they do exist here) along with some promotions with the various minor soccer associations (ala the Ottawa 67's) would go far.

Were the nations capital for god sake... embassies and consulates all over the place from parts of the world where soccer really matters located all over the city. You would think a smart marketer would use some of that and have different "nation days" with cultural exhibits and maybe even special food offerings to generate interest.

only problem is that being a tier 2 side at best, the soccer is gonna be that much worse compared to where they come from. then there is also lack fo ties to the city which is important. For instance, I (and I imagine a fair bit of others) watch MLS/TFC only because of our ties to Toronto. without that, i wouldn't be watching MLS.

you can see that in hockey here too. Support for the Sens is relatively small compared to that of the Habs & Leafs by people living in Ottawa because their ties are to those other cities.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

The quality of the soccer isn't that much of a problem, if you enjoy going to the games. If you are just going to watch on tv, then why watch MLS or USL/NASL at all, why not watch the EPL or other European Leagues. The reason people watch MLS is the same reason that people in England go to watch lower division teams there. You go to support your local team, or whatever team you are emotionally attached to. I only started watching MLS when there were rumours of an Ottawa team

I watch the Ottawa Fury at the moment, because it is the best live soccer in Ottawa. If Ottawa gets a second tier team I will watch them. If Ottawa gets an MLS team I will watch them. But I will probably still watch the EPL, becuase of my long time emotional attachment to Manchester United, as well as the quality of the game.

[Oldtimer]

Ottawa's soccer dream was looking like it might be dead:



Lansdowne developers get stadium 'monopoly'

CBC News
Anyone who wants to build a professional soccer stadium in Ottawa in coming decades will likely be unable to get city support, thanks to a clause in the city's Lansdowne Park redevelopment deal.

Anyone who wants to build a professional soccer stadium in Ottawa in coming decades will likely be unable to get city support, thanks to a clause in the city's Lansdowne Park redevelopment deal.
The agreement with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group states that if the city does back a new sports facility with more than 5,000 seats in the next 30 years, OSEG has the right to:


Walk away from certain agreements with the city concerning Lansdowne Park's Frank Clair Stadium.
Be the first organization given the opportunity to lease the new facility for its Canadian Football League franchise or Ontario Hockey League team.

Coun. Christine Leadman is unhappy with the clause, revealed just four days before city council is supposed to vote on whether to approve the deal.
She questioned city manager Kent Kirkpatrick about the implications Thursday.
"So is the city granting a monopoly on football and stadiums to the CFL partnership for 30 years?" Leadman asked.
"The answer is yes," Kirkpatrick responded.
http://license.icopyright.net/user/viewFreeUse.act?fuid=ODg5OTU2NA==

However, the controversial clause was removed:


A clause that would make it difficult for any new stadium in Ottawa to get support from the city during the next 30 years has been eliminated from the Lansdowne Park redevelopment deal.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/06/24/lansdowne-stadium-football-monopoly.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/06/24/lansdowne-stadium-football-monopoly.html#ixzz0s9yVIjpn)

[Redcoe15]

Ottawa's MLS dreams are pretty dead anyways. Why would you build another stadium out in the western burbs when you've got a newly reconstructed stadium in the middle of the city?

[TFCRegina]

Ottawa's MLS dreams are pretty dead anyways. Why would you build another stadium out in the western burbs when you've got a newly reconstructed stadium in the middle of the city?

Agreed.

If anything they should be aiming for an NASL stadium, closer to the city heart.

[greatwhitenorf]

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/football/2010/06/29/14551341.html

So it'll be a tier-two team playing on a plastic pitch with seating configured to suit CFL field dimensions.

All of which point to diminished playing quality and pisse-pauvre atmosphere. Doomed from the get-go. Why do I think that won't bother Hunt and his hacks one bit?

[ginkster88]

Do CFL teams make money? What is the point of another Ottawa franchise after two have failed previously? Whatever...

[Cashcleaner]

The CFL has been pretty profitable for quite some time now. The only problem is that a team in Ottawa is likely to be the exception. I don't know how anyone would still want to take the chance in the city where - as you just pointed out - two teams have already come and gone.

[ginkster88]

Now I get it:

"The OSEG proposal would require the city to spend $129.3 million to renovate the stadium and for its share of the parking. OSEG would commit $117.3 million for the construction of retail and residential condominiums on the site. OSEG would own the new commercial development and operate the stadium, with a portion of the revenues directed back to the city. The new retail and residential would be subject to property taxes."

City pays for the stadium, which allows OSEG to get a CFL franchise and build retail and residential properties that are likely to be much more valuable in the long term, while keeping some of the stadium revenue. Nothing like public money.

[Cashcleaner]

Well, just sorta looking at it now, the city would be getting quite a lot back in that plan, though. Taxes from the stadium AND adjacent commercial and residential properties in addition to profit-sharing doesn't sound too bad. At lot of "ifs", "ands", and "buts", though.

[greatwhitenorf]

"The CFL has been pretty profitable for quite some time now."

PARTS of the CFL are profitable. None of those parts are east of Winnipeg. Those parts that do make money don't have huge margins.

Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps arrival in MLS will definitely have a negative affect on commercial aspects of their respective CFL clubs. CFL in Ottawa looks a longshot from the outset and this set up doesn't offer much hope that soccer will get the treatment it needs to be successful, at either MLS or tier-two level.

The whole stadium-football deal is a smokescreen for the building of a largely-unwanted commercial-residential development and a free arena upgrade for Jeff Hunt.

[ginkster88]

The whole stadium-football deal is a smokescreen for the building of a largely-unwanted commercial-residential development and a free arena upgrade for Jeff Hunt.

That's what I'm seeing now. Football in Ottawa doesn't make sense, and who loses if the team fails? Not Hunt, because he's got tenants in his buildings and only keeps part of the stadium revenue; the only thing besides property taxes the city gets out of the deal.

So if the team fails, the city loses revenue from a now-tenantless newly renovated stadium and gets more property taxes, while Hunt keeps his buildings and all related revenue? Nice.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

Well, just sorta looking at it now, the city would be getting quite a lot back in that plan, though. Taxes from the stadium AND adjacent commercial and residential properties in addition to profit-sharing doesn't sound too bad. At lot of "ifs", "ands", and "buts", though.
The city get nothing back from the stadium. OSEG have complete control of the stadium rent-free for 30 years.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

That's what I'm seeing now. Football in Ottawa doesn't make sense, and who loses if the team fails? Not Hunt, because he's got tenants in his buildings and only keeps part of the stadium revenue; the only thing besides property taxes the city gets out of the deal.

So if the team fails, the city loses revenue from a now-tenantless newly renovated stadium and gets more property taxes, while Hunt keeps his buildings and all related revenue? Nice.
OSEG have agreed to guarantee the CFL team for 5 years, but I wouldn't count on them being around beyond that. USL-1 or NASL soccer is unlikely to flourish in that stadium, but again that doesn't worry OSEG as they are not putting any money into soccer. They are only working on having the Ottawa Fury as a tenant and as a way to try and convince soccer fans that they should be supporting the OSEG redevelopment of Lansdowne.

[Mark in Ottawa]

With the level of soccer to be played being lower tier then they had better hit the proper price point to attract fans and get them buying tickets.

The Ottawa market has proven time and again that even a relatively inexpensive ticket is no guarantee of sports franchise success (the baseball team history proves that) and a badly managed sports franchise is an even more sure road to oblivion (reference the recent past history of Ottawa in the CFL).

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

With the level of soccer to be played being lower tier then they had better hit the proper price point to attract fans and get them buying tickets.

The Ottawa market has proven time and again that even a relatively inexpensive ticket is no guarantee of sports franchise success (the baseball team history proves that) and a badly managed sports franchise is an even more sure road to oblivion (reference the recent past history of Ottawa in the CFL).

The only thing that does give me any hope that a div 2 team could survive at Lansdowne is that the Ottawa Fury are involved. These guys know how to run soccer teams, although I still doubt that they will thrive in a big empty CFL stadium whatever the price point or quality on the pitch (compared with other div 2 sides).

I also don't know if the Fury have deep enough pockets to provide the quality on the pitch, or if OSEG are intending to chip in with the running costs. I doubt that they would, because it is a long way from their core business of real estate development :hump:

[Keystone FC]

So with CFL coming back to Ottawa does this mean that Ottawa WILL be getting a soccer club of Div. II proportion?

[greatwhitenorf]

They're getting a gridiron football team of tier two standard. Possibly, hopefully, not for long.

They're getting a soccer club, playing on plastic, in the vast, prairie-wide, expanse of a CFL-configured stadium. No wonder Saskatchewanonians love that game. Will produce a less-than-tier-two experience and fail dismally. Then all the CFL advocates and anti-soccer cretins can say 'told you so'.

Melnyk should just go ahead and build out in Kanata. He's got the pockets to outlast Hunt's bunch and can chip away sufficiently at the CFLer's profit margins until they fail.

Then everyone in the Glebe will come out of their leaf-shaded homes, join hands in a big circle around Landsdowne, and start singing 'Wha-Hoo, Wha-Hoo...' like it's Whoville after the Grinch left.

Then burn down the new complex. And soccer in Canada lives happily ever after.

[Cashcleaner]

The city get nothing back from the stadium. OSEG have complete control of the stadium rent-free for 30 years.

The article says that the city will still be collecting taxes off it and the surrounding land. That could end up being substantial.

[sully]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=326853

He is also prepared to bring a professional soccer to team to Hamilton. (Ok, it's not Ottawa, but well it's not Toronto either..)

[drewski]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=326853

He is also prepared to bring a professional soccer to team to Hamilton. (Ok, it's not Ottawa, but well it's not Toronto either..)


young is a different guy.

Hunt (67's owner) is the guy who is interested in NASL in Ottawa

[Macksam]

They're getting a gridiron football team of tier two standard. Possibly, hopefully, not for long.

They're getting a soccer club, playing on plastic, in the vast, prairie-wide, expanse of a CFL-configured stadium. No wonder Saskatchewanonians love that game. Will produce a less-than-tier-two experience and fail dismally. Then all the CFL advocates and anti-soccer cretins can say 'told you so'.

Melnyk should just go ahead and build out in Kanata. He's got the pockets to outlast Hunt's bunch and can chip away sufficiently at the CFLer's profit margins until they fail.

Then everyone in the Glebe will come out of their leaf-shaded homes, join hands in a big circle around Landsdowne, and start singing 'Wha-Hoo, Wha-Hoo...' like it's Whoville after the Grinch left.

Then burn down the new complex. And soccer in Canada lives happily ever after.
I like your thinking.

As to the CFL's profitability, I only know of Saskatchewan's finances since they are a publicly owned team. From what I can remember, they are making money, but only just. I think it's somewhere in the neighbourhood of $400 000 which is better than a loss in all honesty. However, if the strongest and most well supported franchise can only make that kind of money, it doesn't speak very well for the other teams. I think Edmonton is the only other team that I can see making just as much, if not more money.

[drewski]

if not dead, then on life support with these tidbits

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/08/25-percent-dilemma.html


If the rumblings coming from the meeting are to be believed there could be a requirement that the new D2 league have no more than 25 per cent of its teams located outside the United States. That number matches the current ratio of three teams in a league of 12.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2010/08/09/us-soccer-starts-d2-meeting-with-tough-standards/


Another standard will be soccer specific stadiums. The new standard will require all teams in D2 to be playing in SSS’s within 5 years.

[Shway]

they are really trying to ready the promotion/relegation in the future.
be prepared for a July to November - late february to May schedule