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TFC USA
08-29-2009, 04:59 PM
Ugly in the 2nd half.

We should've won this game.

DeRo and Guevara were awful.

This ref sucks ass.

I'm not happy with the result but not pissed.

Final Score in Seattle: Seattle 0 TFC 0

fdasilva
08-29-2009, 05:00 PM
For a fan who didnt watch the game, a point on the road vs. Seattle is great.

For who watch the game and in particular the 1st half, like me and many others, they'll probably be disappointed.

rocker
08-29-2009, 05:02 PM
PHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

big point on the road in a tough enviro.

H Bomb
08-29-2009, 05:02 PM
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus. God damn it. bunch of somethingorothers

ArmenJBX
08-29-2009, 05:02 PM
It's a point away from home. Right now, even though we should have won, I'm okay.

Now, we gotta start winning. I can't believe we sent DD and he didn't see a minute. DeRo has been a beast lately, unfortunate he didn't score.

I got a text from my cousin today that sums this all up. "Meh..."

(Yes, that's you Andre :D)

Yeoman
08-29-2009, 05:02 PM
yeah dero did look terrible out there
we have had those two goals in the begining, no excuses

Inklink
08-29-2009, 05:02 PM
Frei is awesome.

And credit to the ref for no red cards because several players could've easily gotten 2 yellows (ahem Dero).

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2009, 05:03 PM
Deserved the win. I'll take the tie.

DeRo is trying to do way too much on his own. He was a black hole for our team's forward movement today.

Some bad finishing, but overall, a good performance from the boys. Vitti should have been on for Guevara, who didn't seem too interested in this match.

The ref was crap, as usual.

- Scott

TFC USA
08-29-2009, 05:04 PM
Stefan Frei is Swiss Jesus.

Did we really only use 1 sub today? I don't recall having another player come on after Gerba.

Sonny Cheeba
08-29-2009, 05:04 PM
Greg Sutton is the new Craig Forrest

rocker
08-29-2009, 05:04 PM
Gerba was given no service. Felt sorry for him chasing those lost causes.

mdc 77
08-29-2009, 05:04 PM
DeRo, man he missed some chances today. Barrett? Same old story.

Wish Cummins makes that sub for Barrett a little earlier, and maybe Vitti instead of Gerba. We should have had the 3 points but overall a strong match from TFC so I'm not complaining about this one. Bottom line, without wins on the road the playoffs become tougher each match.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2009, 05:04 PM
Frei is awesome.

And credit to the ref for no red cards because several players could've easily gotten 2 yellows (ahem Dero).

In fairness, Ljungberg could also have easily been tossed for his non-stop complaining after the bunk yellow card he got.

- Scott

Oldtimer
08-29-2009, 05:05 PM
Good enough. Too bad DeRo slipped on Seattle's turf.

Seattle is a very scrappy team, more USL than MLS at times.

That marching band is horrible. There fans are pretty good, the "Seattle"... "Sounders" chant sounds decent. The stadium's accoustics are wonderful. Glad to see a good sized crowd when compared with the KCs of the league.

Keegan
08-29-2009, 05:05 PM
Gerba was given no service. Felt sorry for him chasing those lost causes.

Agreed. If we were just gonna go into a shell why bring Gerba on? Should have brought on a speedster everyone was dead out there, Gerba or Ibrahim would have been good.

Fushida
08-29-2009, 05:06 PM
Our second half performance is rarely better than the first.. and that is only because Cummins gets out-coached. I don't know how else to explain it. I was telling myself we HAD to get a goal in the first half, because we sure as hell weren't after Seattle adjusts.

DeRo had a pretty shit game but I suppose he created a lot of chances. Its tough to say that he sucked but his missed open net and his do it all alone attitude makes it hard to appreciate what he did today.

Sanyang was amazing... He does the Robbo role with more energy and tact, and can pass a tad better too :rolleyes:. Cronin I felt was wasted on the left, but I guess there wasn't much choice... Can't complain with the performance Sanyang put in today.

I think for that first half performance, we deserved more than a point. But because of our shitty second half (as always), I guess its an okay result.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2009, 05:06 PM
Stefan Frei is Swiss Jesus.

Did we really only use 1 sub today? I don't recall having another player come on after Gerba.

Pretty sure, and it's ridiculous. More puzzling decisions from Cummins.

Gerba had no service - he was just left to try and chase down long ball after long ball for the last 15 minutes, as we tried to protect the draw.

Dichio should have come on for DeRo, and Vitti should have come on for Guevara. Both were completely out of their element today, and DeRo was actually a liability by about the 80th minute.

- Scott

WHITEY
08-29-2009, 05:07 PM
DeRo needs to stop doing everything on his own and start passing once in a while

Oldtimer
08-29-2009, 05:08 PM
Dichio should have come on for DeRo, and Vitti should have come on for Guevara. Both were completely out of their element today, and DeRo was actually a liability by about the 80th minute.

- Scott

True.

I liked the starting formation, though, I think Cummins got that one right.

Fushida
08-29-2009, 05:08 PM
And yea, I don't understand how Cummins only made a single sub. Vitti would have been pretty welcome after Gerba came on. SOMEONE had to put ball to feet aside from Guevara.

Fushida
08-29-2009, 05:09 PM
DeRo needs to stop doing everything on his own and start passing once in a while

Don't hold your breath on that one .... :facepalm:

Dub Narcotic
08-29-2009, 05:09 PM
Right now, Sanyang/Vitti looks a lot better than Guevera/Robinson. The point was reasonable, but those misses in the first half were awful. I don't think Seattle is that good.

H Bomb
08-29-2009, 05:09 PM
DeRo needs to stop doing everything on his own and start passing once in a while

i cant remember the time he made a forward pass....its look to shoot, look to shoot, look to shoot, drop it back

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2009, 05:10 PM
I just don't get the lack of subs at all. Our guys were clearly gassed towards the end of the game, and it lead to a bunch of near-goals from Seattle in the dying minutes. We were getting outpaced all over the place.

- Scott

gtaguy
08-29-2009, 05:10 PM
finishing is the big problem... Has been all year but a point is better then none... first half solid .. second half the team eased up a bit...

trane
08-29-2009, 05:10 PM
Why did Barret start at striker once again, did everyone not understand that he is not an out and out striker. When I saw him start that Dichio, Gerba and OBW were in the hospital with a coma. Otherwise, why would he start.


I agree with you Shakes.

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-29-2009, 05:12 PM
Ugly in the 2nd half.

We should've won this game.

DeRo and Guevara were awful.

This ref sucks ass.

I'm not happy with the result but not pissed.

Final Score in Seattle: Seattle 0 TFC 0


Nothing wrong with the ref, his performance was one of the better ones TFC has had in 3 years. DeRo awful,your just finding this out now? he misses and empty net, refuses to pass to teammates..he should have been replaced with 20 mins to go and had Dichio on..Guevara and DeRo dont play well together thats obvious. This could be a key point going down the stretch. And the bounus two more MLS games on tonight
San Jose @ New England 7:30 WSBK (Boston) we really need the Earthquakes to help out here, even a draw...and the LA Derby,
Galaxy v Chivas 11pm GOL...LA could help us with a win.. for the Reds great effort..just FINISH!!

rocker
08-29-2009, 05:12 PM
The thing with De Ro is you almost have to take the good with the bad. As mentioned, he creates a lot. He's got more skill than many . He runs his ass off. '

But he tries to hard to be THE MAN. He doesn't look up half the time to involve open teammates.

You can't not play him, cuz he creates ... but you also have to recognize all the mistakes he's gonna make.

Lucky Strike
08-29-2009, 05:12 PM
Some observations:

- If I was told before the game we'd get a point, I'd have taken it. We really should have won but I'm not angry with the point either.
- Contrary to others, I liked the referee today.
- Ljungberg is a whining cunt who goes down pretty easily.
- DeVos as a commentator was poor today. Twice he said: "I've seen them given." referring to potential penalties against TFC but on both occasions, it wasn't even close to meriting one.
- Marching band sounds horribly out of place. I like Seattle and credit their willingness to experiment, but the band sounds dreadful.
- Crowd in Seattle unimpressive, they yell and scream but have no chants (Seattle-Sounders thing doesn't count - it's not a song). They were particularly flat in the first half. Part of what makes "good" supporters is the energy to cheer on when your team is down; I don't believe they did that today.
- I'd have put Vitti on for Guevara in around the 60th minute. I'd also have subbed for DeRo late in the second half (90th or so), he was pretty ragy there - I assume he just wants to win though, not because he's a maniac.
- Great save Frei at the end! This is why we have him.
- Montero kept quiet, Hurtado really effective today.
- Sanyang was brilliant and did something that normally doesn't happen for TFC and I yelled: finally! Usually, whenever TFC got to the box and an opposing player sort of half-clears in a hurry, there's always a teammate for the defender there to pick up the ball and continue. When the reverse happens, there's never anyone for TFC. Today there was Sanyang; Robbo better have to earn his place back in.

jloome
08-29-2009, 05:14 PM
Damn, Sanyang is an amazing young player. Read the game and broke up Seattle all day long.

Damn, DeRo is a ball hog. Damn, damn, damn. Can't help but wonder if either White or Gerba finishes a few of those first half chances when he and barrett were both muffing things.

Good fight, generallly. We looked tired at about 65 mins.

Brooker
08-29-2009, 05:14 PM
fuck... i missed the game.... what time as kickoff?

AdamZ
08-29-2009, 05:15 PM
Seattle is a very scrappy team, more USL than MLS at times.


this is true, especially recently. What's also true is that Qwest is something of a fortress (statistically speaking), and Keller has only let in 22 goals this season.

Keegan
08-29-2009, 05:15 PM
i cant remember the time he made a forward pass....its look to shoot, look to shoot, look to shoot, drop it back

When he gave Cronin that breakaway?

SteeltownBhoy
08-29-2009, 05:16 PM
Seattle crowd........FAIL.................Big Time

rocker
08-29-2009, 05:17 PM
Sanyang is definitely impressing me.

I keep saying "don't get impressed... he's only played a few games... for sure he'll be exposed as the league gets to know his role and style"... but I want to believe he is the real deal. So far so good.

One thing about these two Gambians is they have a good sense of the game. I guess I assumed they'd be physical players who needed training on sensing the game.. but maybe not.

Sonny Cheeba
08-29-2009, 05:18 PM
- Crowd in Seattle unimpressive, they yell and scream but have no chants (Seattle-Sounders thing doesn't count - it's not a song. They were particularly flat in the first half. Part of what makes "good" supporters is the energy to cheer on when your team is down; I don't believe they did that today.


their team was never down in today's game so what does it matter..... they were pretty good from what i saw. and the Seattle-Sounders chant was nice and loud, something we can't even do.

sure they may have better acoustics, but after three years we still can't get everyone on Dichio24.

our real only stadium wide chants are TFC Clap clap clap and This is our house. both of which are on the same level as that sounders chant.

today was a disappointment. at times the ref wasn't terrible, but he was a pretty slow decision maker.

cy43
08-29-2009, 05:19 PM
Deserved the win. I'll take the tie.

DeRo is trying to do way too much on his own. He was a black hole for our team's forward movement today.


He's been like that lately i've found, but can't complain when he finishes, best example would be when he took away Guevara's shot in the 2nd half, to shoot miles wide, We should have won this game.

Lucky Strike
08-29-2009, 05:19 PM
Sanyang is definitely impressing me.

I keep saying "don't get impressed... he's only played a few games... for sure he'll be exposed as the league gets to know his role and style"... but I want to believe he is the real deal. So far so good.

One thing about these two Gambians is they have a good sense of the game. I guess I assumed they'd be physical players who needed training on sensing the game.. but maybe not.

I'm definitely in the same camp as you on this one. Couldn't have said it better.

Lucky Strike
08-29-2009, 05:19 PM
He's been like that lately i've found, but can't complain when he finishes, best example would be when he took away Guevara's shot in the 2nd half, to shoot miles wide, We should have won this game.

Totally forgot to write about that, I screamed at him on TV on that one. Urgh!

dag
08-29-2009, 05:20 PM
On balance, I really think there were many more positives from this game. We should have won. So many chances in the first half plagued by a critical lack of mental focus.

But we came out so strong today (this was Toronto? against Seattle?) and managed a clean sheet. A point on the road against Seattle is pretty dran good. Yes, three points would obviously haven more opportune. And, yes, we probably should have won this match. But I think overall this was a decent result.

Sonny Cheeba
08-29-2009, 05:20 PM
Seattle crowd........FAIL.................Big Time

i don't get this shit. they're not failing at anything.

Lucky Strike
08-29-2009, 05:21 PM
their team was never down in today's game so what does it matter..... they were pretty good from what i saw. and the Seattle-Sounders chant was nice and loud, something we can't even do.

?!?

Sure they were; Seattle were 100% owned in the first half.

Oldtimer
08-29-2009, 05:22 PM
Seattle crowd........FAIL.................Big Time

They don't really know how to support when their team is down, so there is no danger of us losing our place as "the best fans in MLS," at least until the other Canadian cities come in.

That being said, I'm very glad to see 30K+ fans coming to a game, and not too much of the "soccer mom + kids + bouncy castle" element. If every club in MLS had this kind of attendance, the salary cap would be $5 million easily.

ilikemusic
08-29-2009, 05:22 PM
It feels like two points lost.

Which is actually positive progress for the team.

Oldtimer
08-29-2009, 05:23 PM
It feels like two points lost.

Which is actually positive progress for the team.

Lat year it would have been 3.

Sonny Cheeba
08-29-2009, 05:26 PM
?!?

Sure they were; Seattle were 100% owned in the first half.

they weren't down a goal is my point. toronto played well, but they weren't owned. if they were owned we would have been up at least 2-nil.

"owning" a team means nothing when you can't get 3 points.

i don't think seattle's support is ranking up there with Panithanaikos or anything, but neither are we. i think they're pretty good compared to a few other MLS teams anyways. and they weren't bad today.

Baggio2TFC
08-29-2009, 05:26 PM
So that's the line up CC uses to win a game away when it is crucial to the playoffs???!!!

So that's how the players play to win a game away when it is crucial to the playoffs???!!!

WTF?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fushida
08-29-2009, 05:26 PM
He's been like that lately i've found, but can't complain when he finishes, best example would be when he took away Guevara's shot in the 2nd half, to shoot miles wide, We should have won this game.

Guevara did all the hard work for it to be stolen from his feet and blasted into orbit.

:picard:

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't want to hear any nonsense about what a "failure" the Seattle fans were, as far as atmosphere went.

They had some simple chants that sounded good, just like us. The atmosphere also got quiet and tepid at times, just like BMO can get.

We don't have elaborate songs that have been passed on through generations of die-hard fans, and neither do they. Until we get to that stage, simple chants and crowd noise will likely have to do for all but the hardcore supporters (ie. US)

- Scott

Jamaicanadian
08-29-2009, 05:27 PM
Greg Sutton is the new Craig Forrest

ha ha ha Sonny... U large!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fushida
08-29-2009, 05:28 PM
So that's the line up CC uses to win a game away when it is crucial to the playoffs???!!!

So that's how the players play to win a game away when it is crucial to the playoffs???!!!

WTF?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you even watch the game? Just asking. :rolleyes:

Did you see the first half? when the lineup seemed to have been working pretty well? The players played well until the half. And I can attribute the lackluster 2nd half only to Cummins getting out-managed. Sigi clearly adjusted. What did we do?

Sonny Cheeba
08-29-2009, 05:28 PM
They don't really know how to support when their team is down, so there is no danger of us losing our place as "the best fans in MLS," at least until the other Canadian cities come in.
.

honestly. we don't help TFC that much when they're down at home. so many complaints come out of the stands, and it's really only 112 that makes any real attempts at joining in. if you're in another section you'll hear "why are you starting chants, we're fuckin losing"

i think that attitude is poor, but it happens here. so in a way, a huge amount of TFC fans don't know how to support their team when they're down.

North Americans aren't used to this.

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-29-2009, 05:28 PM
So that's the line up CC uses to win a game away when it is crucial to the playoffs???!!!

So that's how the players play to win a game away when it is crucial to the playoffs???!!!

WTF?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


thats the best game TFC has played in quite awhile on the road..the line up was great. you can blame CC cause deRo cant score in a empty net,or continues to hog the ball..maybe you can he could bench him!!

Sonny Cheeba
08-29-2009, 05:29 PM
I don't want to hear any nonsense about what a "failure" the Seattle fans were, as far as atmosphere went.

They had some simple chants that sounded good, just like us. The atmosphere also got quiet and tepid at times, just like BMO can get.

We don't have elaborate songs that have been passed on through generations of die-hard fans, and neither do they. Until we get to that stage, simple chants and crowd noise will likely have to do for all but the hardcore supporters (ie. US)

- Scott

yup.

T.O TILL I DIE
08-29-2009, 05:30 PM
Frei Vote For The Save Of The Week
Lmfao

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2009, 05:30 PM
thats the best game TFC has played in quite awhile on the road..the line up was great. you can blame CC cause deRo cant score in a empty net,or continues to hog the ball..maybe you can he could bench him!!

Oh God, don't get on your anti-DeRo soap box AGAIN.

- Scott

Hugh Jazz
08-29-2009, 05:31 PM
Am I alone in thinking that Garcia played very well today? Seattle has a lot of attackers who are either much bigger or faster then him and I think he held his ground well.

Also, the Seattle-Sounders chant sounds like the fans are taunting their own players.

Lucky Strike
08-29-2009, 05:32 PM
they weren't down a goal is my point. toronto played well, but they weren't owned. if they were owned we would have been up at least 2-nil.

"owning" a team means nothing when you can't get 3 points.

i don't think seattle's support is ranking up there with Panithanaikos or anything, but neither are we. i think they're pretty good compared to a few other MLS teams anyways. and they weren't bad today.

Alright that makes sense. We simply have different definitions of "being down". Speaking for myself, "down" was TFC having pretty much all the play and creating excellent scoring chances, and Seattle basically having nothing positive. That's what I was insinuating from my perspective.

As for support, don't get me wrong fellas, Seattle getting 30000 is very good for the league and they're much more into it and alive than the stiffs you'd find in Columbus or Dallas for example, but best of the league? I don't see it: TFC and DC are still better in my view. On the global scale, we TFC supporters do still have work to do compared to places like England, France, etc... but we're not a bunch of drone-corpses who only make noise when told to do so by a scoreboard.

TFC USA
08-29-2009, 05:35 PM
mighty shut the fuck up about DeRo.

We'd still be dealing with James' fuck-ups at the back instead of having a solid goal-scorer and creator.

He's just been off the last few games but so has this team mostly.

Lucky Strike
08-29-2009, 05:36 PM
Am I alone in thinking that Garcia played very well today? Seattle has a lot of attackers who are either much bigger or faster then him and I think he held his ground well.

Also, the Seattle-Sounders chant sounds like the fans are taunting their own players.

Nope. I liked him as well today: it's funny sometimes he looks solid and very composed, other times he's awful and looks like he's stuck in sludge.

backbeat
08-29-2009, 05:37 PM
happy with the point although with the first half opportunities it should have been a different game.

not happay with the way Barrett came off the pitch when he was subbed - looked like a spoiled child and didn't seem to acknowledge Gerba going on at all - seemed selfish from what i saw

Fushida
08-29-2009, 05:38 PM
Am I alone in thinking that Garcia played very well today? Seattle has a lot of attackers who are either much bigger or faster then him and I think he held his ground well.

Also, the Seattle-Sounders chant sounds like the fans are taunting their own players.

Its because Attakora had Montero down. Gomez had Jaqua's height (which was a huge problem when they were at BMO). Garcia? Wasn't tested too much. Not to mention Jaqua actually lost to him in a footrace :D

Alex_82
08-29-2009, 05:44 PM
Yeah I think the general consensus is that DeRo was trying way to hard to end it himself. Maybe he was trying to make up for the missed goal earlier.....Sanyang looked like he belonged there today. Frei came up huge at the end!..The Sounders are so proud of their 32000 + at the game but the crowd was flat. But good numbers if thats all you go for.

T.O TILL I DIE
08-29-2009, 05:47 PM
:canada:FREI FOR THE SAVE OF THE WEEK!!
if it wasnt for frei we wouldnt get this 1 point
but thank god r defence is getting better
and dero WTF he had like 5 great chances to score
i guess we were just unlucky
and ive seen alot of red jerseys in the stand TFC FANS R THE GREATEST
:scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf:: scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf:

TFC USA
08-29-2009, 05:48 PM
I just had a thought.

If DeRo had scored early chances are we would've done what we usually do and play defense the rest of the way. Eventually Frei and the defense would crack and we would lose!

And no these drugs are mine and you can't have them! :D

Dub Narcotic
08-29-2009, 06:09 PM
Why did Barret start at striker once again, did everyone not understand that he is not an out and out striker. When I saw him start that Dichio, Gerba and OBW were in the hospital with a coma. Otherwise, why would he start.


I agree with you Shakes.

Things happen when Barrett is on the field. He wins balls, makes space and generally creates chances. I would not mind him starting next week as well.

DOMIN8R
08-29-2009, 06:11 PM
Glad we got a point. But FFS ...

No subs when we're under pressure in stopage and we have 2 left???
No shape on the pitch and an every man for himself formation where we punt or dribble until we loose possession???
Gerba all alone for the counter attack when you know the Sounders CBs are going to just paint the guy since there is no way he's going break away and run 65 meters and score???
I have to say, I'm begining to question our coaching.

We're lucky we got away with a point.:rant:

Cristiano14
08-29-2009, 06:18 PM
yeh the subbing situation was insane
why would you not use 2 of your subs when your team is flat!!!!!!
the gerba substitution was also late

Nerepis
08-29-2009, 06:21 PM
Some observations:

- If I was told before the game we'd get a point, I'd have taken it. We really should have won but I'm not angry with the point either.
- Contrary to others, I liked the referee today.
- Ljungberg is a whining cunt who goes down pretty easily.
- DeVos as a commentator was poor today. Twice he said: "I've seen them given." referring to potential penalties against TFC but on both occasions, it wasn't even close to meriting one.
- Marching band sounds horribly out of place. I like Seattle and credit their willingness to experiment, but the band sounds dreadful.
- Crowd in Seattle unimpressive, they yell and scream but have no chants (Seattle-Sounders thing doesn't count - it's not a song). They were particularly flat in the first half. Part of what makes "good" supporters is the energy to cheer on when your team is down; I don't believe they did that today.
- I'd have put Vitti on for Guevara in around the 60th minute. I'd also have subbed for DeRo late in the second half (90th or so), he was pretty ragy there - I assume he just wants to win though, not because he's a maniac.
- Great save Frei at the end! This is why we have him.
- Montero kept quiet, Hurtado really effective today.
- Sanyang was brilliant and did something that normally doesn't happen for TFC and I yelled: finally! Usually, whenever TFC got to the box and an opposing player sort of half-clears in a hurry, there's always a teammate for the defender there to pick up the ball and continue. When the reverse happens, there's never anyone for TFC. Today there was Sanyang; Robbo better have to earn his place back in.

Got to agree with pretty much all you've said:

With Devos' comments, I didn't get whether he meant the Ref sucked for not calling the PKs, or MLS Refs are shit for calling penalties for stuff that clearing isn't. :)

Vitti for Guevara in the 60th min for sure and with 4 minutes of ET and 2 subs to give when we are in a defensive shell, why not make 2 subs and kill a couple of minutes?

Red Rat
08-29-2009, 06:30 PM
I can't believe how close we were to 3 points.
Shir

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-29-2009, 06:43 PM
mighty shut the fuck up about DeRo.

We'd still be dealing with James' fuck-ups at the back instead of having a solid goal-scorer and creator.

He's just been off the last few games but so has this team mostly.


a solid goal scorer would NOT have missed a clear empty net..he's paid to bag them.why cant he pass the ball more...ego, selfish, he has got to use
him teammates more

Dub Narcotic
08-29-2009, 06:43 PM
Barret/Gerba De Rosario

Brennan Sanyang Vitti Wynne

Haitian Guy Serioux/Garcia Gomez Attakora

Frei

This, to me, is the best lineup right now, assuming Haitian Guy can do a competent job. If not, Brennan back at LB and Cronin at LM. I'm agnostic on Barret vs. Gerba and would slightly prefer Serioux to Garcia but not desperately so.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2009, 06:51 PM
a solid goal scorer would NOT have missed a clear empty net..he's paid to bag them.why cant he pass the ball more...ego, selfish, he has got to use
him teammates more

The best strikers in the world occasionally take awful shots, and fuck up easy finishes. Are you kidding me?

The guy is the top scoring player on our team, and he isn't even a striker.

He had a really bad game today, but your criticism is always the same, no matter how he plays - good or bad.

- Scott

Vince Whirlwind
08-29-2009, 06:54 PM
a solid goal scorer would NOT have missed a clear empty net..he's paid to bag them.why cant he pass the ball more...ego, selfish, he has got to use
him teammates more

Oh man...Dero single handedly won us the game in Montreal...he's easily the most talented and usually most interested player every single match.

If there's someone to blame for not scoring on an obvious attempt, it'd be Barrett for missing what was a complete (from a beautiful Dero cross) gimme for any "pro" striker.

I love Danny as much as the next guy, but jeez...Dero is twice the player as any other guy we have.

Looked like he just tripped over himself as he turned for that shot - unfortunate.

Belfast_Boy
08-29-2009, 06:57 PM
I've been drinking way too much to see if anyone said this already!
why isn't Gerba starting? where the fuck was DD?

LucaGol
08-29-2009, 06:58 PM
Best play of the game by far .... Guevara dribbles two Sounders, finds himself in space, shapes to curl a bender, ... then out of nowhere DeRo suddenly pops up and shoots the ball into the 20th row, basically off of Amado's foot.

Classic.


Oh and another thing ... if Sanyang keeps having massive games like he had today, I'm going to have to start calling him Pocket Essien. The guy was a flat out giant in the middle of the park. Robbo is officially relegated to bench player after this one. Carefully pay attention to Sanyang ... he's always moving off the ball ... I love it.

Big ups to Attakora, Cronin, Frei and Gomez ... all beasts today ... and our youngest players to boot.

Blizzard
08-29-2009, 07:01 PM
Deserved the win. I'll take the tie.

DeRo is trying to do way too much on his own. He was a black hole for our team's forward movement today.

Some bad finishing, but overall, a good performance from the boys. Vitti should have been on for Guevara, who didn't seem too interested in this match.

The ref was crap, as usual.

- Scott

Amado had his moments. The crossbar obviously and that brilliant run up the middle until he was .... uh .... tackled (?) by DeRo.

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-29-2009, 07:02 PM
Oh man...Dero single handedly won us the game in Montreal...he's easily the most talented and usually most interested player every single match.

If there's someone to blame for not scoring on an obvious attempt, it'd be Barrett for missing what was a complete (from a beautiful Dero cross) gimme for any "pro" striker.

I love Danny as much as the next guy, but jeez...Dero is twice the player as any other guy we have.

Looked like he just tripped over himself as he turned for that shot - unfortunate.


yes he did do well against Montreal, but where was he against Puerto rico another USL team? and tonight in Seattle? Barrett should have scored,
and no doubt will ride the bench next week...But how many more chances does DeRo get before being benched, sub. ?

UltraSuperMegaMo
08-29-2009, 07:03 PM
About a million times easier on the eyes to watch than last weeks game. I just hope we make the playoffs by a point rather than miss them by two.

Fushida
08-29-2009, 07:06 PM
Barret/Gerba De Rosario

Brennan Sanyang Vitti Wynne

Haitian Guy Serioux/Garcia Gomez Attakora

Frei

This, to me, is the best lineup right now, assuming Haitian Guy can do a competent job. If not, Brennan back at LB and Cronin at LM. I'm agnostic on Barret vs. Gerba and would slightly prefer Serioux to Garcia but not desperately so.

How can Fellinga be in the best lineup when he hasn't even played? Just curious.

Blizzard
08-29-2009, 07:09 PM
Am I alone in thinking that Garcia played very well today? Seattle has a lot of attackers who are either much bigger or faster then him and I think he held his ground well.

Also, the Seattle-Sounders chant sounds like the fans are taunting their own players.

Garcia was fine. A couple of bad passes I noticed but generally played hard, stood up, cleared well ... no complaints.

Blizzard
08-29-2009, 07:13 PM
Barret/Gerba De Rosario

Brennan Sanyang Vitti Wynne

Haitian Guy Serioux/Garcia Gomez Attakora

Frei

This, to me, is the best lineup right now, assuming Haitian Guy can do a competent job. If not, Brennan back at LB and Cronin at LM. I'm agnostic on Barret vs. Gerba and would slightly prefer Serioux to Garcia but not desperately so.

How the heck can you put "Haitian Guy" (his name is Fellinga!!!!) into a line-up. He's never even been seen by us. That's kinda crazy you know.

Cummins has described him as a project!

For the time being, Brennan at LB and Cronin at LM will be just fine.

... and regarding the lack of Guevara, it's funny how people bitch about him when he's in the line-up and then notice how bad we can be without him in the line-up!!!

B

Fushida
08-29-2009, 07:18 PM
Cronin was wasted on the left. He barely saw the ball today... and doesn't seem to get much of a look from Brennan. I don't see the hate on Guevara... he wasn't that bad today IMO? But perhaps age is catching up to him (and priorities)

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2009, 07:20 PM
Cronin was wasted on the left. He barely saw the ball today... and doesn't seem to get much of a look from Brennan. I don't see the hate on Guevara... he wasn't that bad today IMO? But perhaps age is catching up to him (and priorities)

I didn't hate Guevara's performance, it was just clear that his contribution to the game had passed in the early goings of the second half, and he should have been substituted for someone who could unclog our midfield, and get things flowing again - like Vitti.

Instead, we had a few sporadic opportunities, and spent the rest of the time just booting the ball out of our half of the pitch over and over - especially towards the end of the game.

- Scott

Chevy
08-29-2009, 07:21 PM
Damn, Sanyang is an amazing young player. Read the game and broke up Seattle all day long.

Damn, DeRo is a ball hog. Damn, damn, damn. Can't help but wonder if either White or Gerba finishes a few of those first half chances when he and barrett were both muffing things.

Good fight, generallly. We looked tired at about 65 mins.


+1. It was nice to not have Robbo butchering the midfield.

DeRo has got to look up the field once and a while and also realize he can't score from 50 yards away (if anybody is searching for reasons he's not in a top flight euro league - these are it).

Pookie
08-29-2009, 07:22 PM
- Sanyang... I could get used to him right where he is
- De Rosario... gets a pass for uncharacteristic miss. Gets a fail for trying to win the game all by himself and not using teammates
- Barrett... thought he worked well with De Rosario early... way to many misses all season long for him to be pissed off when subbed, what do you expect Chad?

In the strange category, I saw this quite a bit on the pre-game show last night on GolTV. I'm talking about a club produced show talking on air about how Seattle supporters have "taken it up a notch" and specifically referenced the "entire stadium standing for the full 90 minutes" as an example.

If this is desirable and a sign of support, why is the FO, that sponsors this show, forcing our own bums into seats? or even out of the stadium for what they are applauding Seattle for???

Dub Narcotic
08-29-2009, 07:24 PM
How can Fellinga be in the best lineup when he hasn't even played? Just curious.

Everything on the left side is contingent. The only true LM is Brennan, the only true LB is ... Brennan, so every lineup is going to be lacking in some way, unless Fellinga is competent.

Dub Narcotic
08-29-2009, 07:25 PM
How the heck can you put "Haitian Guy" (his name is Fellinga!!!!) into a line-up. He's never even been seen by us. That's kinda crazy you know.

Cummins has described him as a project!

For the time being, Brennan at LB and Cronin at LM will be just fine.

... and regarding the lack of Guevara, it's funny how people bitch about him when he's in the line-up and then notice how bad we can be without him in the line-up!!!

B

OK, so Cronin in at LM, Brennan back. Guevera has been mediocre for a long time this season and I've never complained about his absence. His awful set pieces alone cancel out any positive play. Vitti, to me, is clearly the better option at this point.

Redcoe15
08-29-2009, 07:30 PM
The way they played today, they should have come away with three points. Disapointed with the finishing around the net (I'm lookin' at you, Barrett). Not one of DeRo's better games, but not for a lack of trying. Besides, he's given us far more good games than bad, so I'm not going to rag too hard on him, unlike a certain village idiot here who thinks Jeff Cunningham would be an improvement over DeRo. I just wished Cummins had made better substitutes at the second half.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2009, 07:36 PM
I've found that when you focus on one player you see what you want to see. I thought De Rosario (Or Dwayne Rosario according to the Seattle commentary) was alright, albeit he did do too much at times. Guevara was no where beyond the crossbar shot, Barrett was silent too.

Marvell Wynne is a genius in my eyes. On a down note, Stefan Frei is not Toronto FC quality. Say what you want about the guy, but Stefan Frei shouldn't be starting for Toronto FC...

...He should be starting for Chelsea, every single match. :D

Stryker
08-29-2009, 07:37 PM
My two cents:

Dero is amazing. But looking up for a way to weave through 3 defenders rather than looking for an open teamate when he gets the ball is not cool.

Sanyang is overly agressive and will be in for alot of cards if he doesn't tone it down alittle.

Wynne (who as most of you know I don't think highly of) did a solid job defending today.

Cummins is a useless cunt and needs to learn how to use his subs effectively.

A single point is somewhat disappointing considering the first half was some of the best football I've ever seen us play.

LucaGol
08-29-2009, 07:39 PM
I've found that when you focus on one player you see what you want to see. I thought De Rosario (Or Dwayne Rosario according to the Seattle commentary) was alright, albeit he did do too much at times. Guevara was no where beyond the crossbar shot, Barrett was silent too.

Marvell Wynne is a genius in my eyes. On a down note, Stefan Frei is not Toronto FC quality. Say what you want about the guy, but Stefan Frei shouldn't be starting for Toronto FC...

...He should be starting for Chelsea, every single match. :D

Maybe not that level, but I could definitely see Frei with a top Bundesliga side in a couple of years. He has a European passport, so it's only a matter of time really before MLSE make some more money to invest into "grass" and new "training facilities" ...

Fushida
08-29-2009, 07:41 PM
I didn't hate Guevara's performance, it was just clear that his contribution to the game had passed in the early goings of the second half, and he should have been substituted for someone who could unclog our midfield, and get things flowing again - like Vitti.

Instead, we had a few sporadic opportunities, and spent the rest of the time just booting the ball out of our half of the pitch over and over - especially towards the end of the game.

- Scott

It tends to happen the second Dichio/Gerba gets subbed on. Can't be helped with this team. Its down to coaching and just a lack of confidence I suppose...

Wynne was so impressive in the first half, and didn't even see the ball in the second. Partially because no one bothered passing to him and also because Seattle adjusted. We didn't adjust at the half. I wonder what Cummins does at half time?! Clearly the case of getting out-managed today.

pekduck
08-29-2009, 07:43 PM
(Yes this is Twisted)

To recap:

Finishing: Gah!
Gerba: Why did he not start?
Seattle fans: Has only one chant.
Win: Should have.
Draw: Barely acceptable.
DeRo: Gah!
Qwest Field section 203: Not long enough to hold a 30' banner. All that work. Gah!
Frei: A god.

That is all. Twisted out!!

Fushida
08-29-2009, 07:43 PM
My two cents:

Dero is amazing. But looking up for a way to weave through 3 defenders rather than looking for an open teamate when he gets the ball is not cool.

Sanyang is overly agressive and will be in for alot of cards if he doesn't tone it down alittle.

Wynne (who as most of you know I don't think highly of) did a solid job defending today.

Cummins is a useless cunt and needs to learn how to use his subs effectively.

A single point is somewhat disappointing considering the first half was some of the best football I've ever seen us play.

Agreed on DeRo.

Sanyang... is what he is. I tend to see it as energy rather than aggressiveness :rolleyes:

Wynne... he defended? He was amazing with the forward runs in the first half. Second half... not so much.

Cummins... agreed.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2009, 07:43 PM
I'm watching Frei play, and I'm thinking to myself

"How in the name of all that is good and holy did we end up with a keeper like him!"

IMO the best player on the team by far and he should be given a payrise stat.

Sam Cronin was alright, Nick Garcia was cool. Overall, some missed chances, but a point on the road is better then nothing. I'm loving these Gambians too. :D

pekduck
08-29-2009, 07:45 PM
(Still Twisted...)

Can we start the Fire Cummins thread based on this game alone?

Blizzard
08-29-2009, 07:55 PM
OK, so Cronin in at LM, Brennan back. Guevera has been mediocre for a long time this season and I've never complained about his absence. His awful set pieces alone cancel out any positive play. Vitti, to me, is clearly the better option at this point.

I wasn't singling you out with that comment. I am a huge fan of Vitti and if Amado leaves us as is rumoured, Vitti is the man to take his place.

pekduck
08-29-2009, 07:57 PM
It was a solid effort -- no bones about it. But DeRo got a little too primadonna. That incident with Zakuani(?) could easily have escalated into a red from the shitearse ref. But then again Ljungberg was pretty close to one too...:D

ArmenJBX
08-29-2009, 08:01 PM
I think the only thing we're missing right now is the DP Striker. We're starting to see who can play where, what we do well, and what we still need. Right now, we need a Pippo Inzaghi type of player, a player who can score dirty, cheap, easy goals and lead us to 1-0 victories. (Inzaghi would be kick ass though :D)

I think Amado's days are numbered. If I were him, I'd want to go back to Honduras on a World Cup year. Normally I'd be a bit upset but with Cronin and Vitti stepping up, we should be okay. Barrett....ohhh Barrett. Unfortunately, If I were him, I'd beg for a move to Philly. He's not gunna make it here. So I think we've got about 16-18 who have cemented a spot on this team, barring any retirements ala Dichio y Robbo. What we need right now is that DP, maybe one more Canadian (Kevin McKenna or David Edgar would do.) and one more US defender. Mo, try to get Hunter Freeman back, he was pretty good.

We're almost there guys. We're so close to the playoffs we can taste the champaign dripping from the MLS cup. 11 more points. Believe in the 11. We can do it! :D

Lucky Strike
08-29-2009, 08:07 PM
It was a solid effort -- no bones about it. But DeRo got a little too primadonna. That incident with Zakuani(?) could easily have escalated into a red from the shitearse ref. But then again Ljungberg was pretty close to one too...:D

The name you're look for here is Hurtado. But yes, it could have been a different colour card. If red though, I could have seen DeRo take the card from the ref, rip it in two in front of him, throw the remains in his face and walk off. I've always wondered if something like that ever happened.

TorCanSoc
08-29-2009, 08:08 PM
It was a solid effort -- no bones about it. But DeRo got a little too primadonna. That incident with Zakuani(?) could easily have escalated into a red from the shitearse ref. But then again Ljungberg was pretty close to one too...:D

It was Hurtado. And it was a cheap shot by Hurtado.

I saw DeRo run his tail off. Pin point pass for a tree stump to head in, but Barrett was there instead and misses. No passing and trying to go through three defenders, he was the only one up there. Who is he going to hold it up for? Barrett?!! Standing up for himself, over a dirty player. Not complaining about a few obvious (taped the game hindsight here) missed calls against. Especially a throw in that was obviously DeRo's.

No way DeRo had a bad game.

pekduck
08-29-2009, 08:13 PM
(Back to Twisted again...)

^ He tried hard, but too hard. He was squeezing out everyone else IMO. Gerba was completely and utterly brought it way too late. If Gerba had been in, the one that hit the post would have been 1-0 TFC instead.

S_D
08-29-2009, 08:15 PM
Yeah I think the general consensus is that DeRo was trying way to hard to end it himself. Maybe he was trying to make up for the missed goal earlier.....Sanyang looked like he belonged there today. Frei came up huge at the end!..The Sounders are so proud of their 32000 + at the game but the crowd was flat. But good numbers if thats all you go for.

I honestly think that Dero is doing what he is doing because he has no confidence in Barrett or Vitti scoring so decides to do it himself.

pekduck
08-29-2009, 08:17 PM
(Again, this is Twisted)

^ The team in general looked more confident. Felt like a weight's been lifted -- namely, Carl Robinson. Sorry Robbo, we love ya, but well...

ArmenJBX
08-29-2009, 08:18 PM
@S D

Exactly. DeRo needs a Brian Ching with him. Someone who scored goals that he can rely on. Right now, DeRo is our Brian Ching, when we really need DeRo to be DeRo. Kinda confusing, I know, but we just need the one goalscorer to get the best out of this team.

I hear Mutu might be available? :D

trane
08-29-2009, 08:22 PM
Things happen when Barrett is on the field. He wins balls, makes space and generally creates chances. I would not mind him starting next week as well.

Things happen, he works hard. I like him on the field but not as a striker. He simply does not have the finish of a striker and you so that again today. He is has the quality to be a starting MLS winger. I like him out there, and am happy when he is out there. As a out and out striker. The only way I like to see him as a forward is if he is on the wing of a three man forward attack. De Ro gave him a perfect goal, and he could not even put it on net.

trane
08-29-2009, 08:27 PM
De Ro and Gerba have played alot and well on the MNT, that is a large reason why Gerba was brought in. Yes, he is not the quickest , but you give him the ball around the box, and he will make things happen. Cummins needs to take advantage of that.

ussing Barrett once again as an out and out striker, coupled with the subs/lack of subs, is making me question Cummins, and I have been a supporter of his for the most part ( I still think that he is a great improvement over JC).

Bobo
08-29-2009, 08:37 PM
We HAVE to use that chant next time they're at BMO.

Seattle!

...

Sounders!

They almost mock themselves with that chant. Not impressed with the fans much actually, rank DC and Chicago miles and miles better. New standard, LOL!

Candu_88
08-29-2009, 09:10 PM
TFC technical frustrations. Barrett didn't arc his attacking run to DeRo's great cross so his body shape is directly facing the goal and thus he whiffs the easy header. This is not the only time he has made this mistake.

Guevara's corner kicks are consistently hitting the first near post defender low on the body. WTF!! There are a lots of GTA U11 youth players who whip in way better more consistent corners on full sized fields.

Why do our attacker always blast the ball high, wide and over when a firm shot low to the corner would have gone in? Both Dero and Guevara are guilty of this today and the awesome DeRo has done this countless times this season. We still lack finishing composure.

Wynne had several good wide attacking runs and link up moves in the first half. But did anyone notice late in the game how many of Seattle's late chances started with overlap runs down our right hand side? That is the winger's job to defend those and Wynne was was not involved at all. That spread the defense, lost our shape and created those horrid late gaps that Frei managed to stop.

I'm getting so frustrated with how many time we lose the ball because the dribbler's head is down and he goes straight into trouble. This is one of TFC biggest flaws.

This flaws are problematic and we are not seeing any evidence that the coaching staff are fixing these issues.

Positive today. Sanyang did an awesome job intercepting passes, winning the ball, supporting attacks, picking up the most dangerous attacker, protecting the defense, distributing the ball and helping the defense keep good shape. There is no debate any longer IMO. The lack of a consistent, hard working effective ratter has been a TFC flaw for too long.

GeorgeB
08-29-2009, 09:24 PM
TFC technical frustrations. Barrett didn't arc his attacking run to DeRo's great cross so his body shape is directly facing the goal and thus he whiffs the easy header. This is not the only time he has made this mistake.

Guevara's corner kicks are consistently hitting the first near post defender low on the body. WTF!! There are a lots of GTA U11 youth players who whip in way better more consistent corners on full sized fields.

Why do our attacker always blast the ball high, wide and over when a firm shot low to the corner would have gone in? Both Dero and Guevara are guilty of this today and the awesome DeRo has done this countless times this season. We still lack finishing composure.

Wynne had several good wide attacking runs and link up moves in the first half. But did anyone notice late in the game how many of Seattle's late chances started with overlap runs down our right hand side? That is the winger's job to defend those and Wynne was was not involved at all. That spread the defense, lost our shape and created those horrid late gaps that Frei managed to stop.

I'm getting so frustrated with how many time we lose the ball because the dribbler's head is down and he goes straight into trouble. This is one of TFC biggest flaws.

This flaws are problematic and we are not seeing any evidence that the coaching staff are fixing these issues.

Positive today. Sanyang did an awesome job intercepting passes, winning the ball, supporting attacks, picking up the most dangerous attacker, protecting the defense, distributing the ball and helping the defense keep good shape. There is no debate any longer IMO. The lack of a consistent, hard working effective ratter has been a TFC flaw for too long.Sanyang played better today than i have seen Robbo play in three years.

Juanito
08-29-2009, 10:57 PM
I don't know what has happened to Guevara. For the better part of last season, he was (in my opinion) the best player on out squad. Over the last few months, it looks like he's just aged in front of our eyes.

I wonder what it is?

DoubleUp
08-29-2009, 11:18 PM
Barrett as Winger, or no Barrett at all, trade him!.

AL-MO
08-29-2009, 11:49 PM
Seattle crowd........FAIL.................Big Time

How about you leave comments about Seattle supporters for those who were actually AT the game....just a thought....

AL-MO
08-30-2009, 12:05 AM
their team was never down in today's game so what does it matter..... they were pretty good from what i saw. and the Seattle-Sounders chant was nice and loud, something we can't even do.

sure they may have better acoustics, but after three years we still can't get everyone on Dichio24.

our real only stadium wide chants are TFC Clap clap clap and This is our house. both of which are on the same level as that sounders chant.

today was a disappointment. at times the ref wasn't terrible, but he was a pretty slow decision maker.


i don't get this shit. they're not failing at anything.


they weren't down a goal is my point. toronto played well, but they weren't owned. if they were owned we would have been up at least 2-nil.

"owning" a team means nothing when you can't get 3 points.

i don't think seattle's support is ranking up there with Panithanaikos or anything, but neither are we. i think they're pretty good compared to a few other MLS teams anyways. and they weren't bad today.


I don't want to hear any nonsense about what a "failure" the Seattle fans were, as far as atmosphere went.

They had some simple chants that sounded good, just like us. The atmosphere also got quiet and tepid at times, just like BMO can get.

We don't have elaborate songs that have been passed on through generations of die-hard fans, and neither do they. Until we get to that stage, simple chants and crowd noise will likely have to do for all but the hardcore supporters (ie. US)

- Scott


honestly. we don't help TFC that much when they're down at home. so many complaints come out of the stands, and it's really only 112 that makes any real attempts at joining in. if you're in another section you'll hear "why are you starting chants, we're fuckin losing"

i think that attitude is poor, but it happens here. so in a way, a huge amount of TFC fans don't know how to support their team when they're down.

North Americans aren't used to this.

Well said Shakes and Cheebs.

Some TFC Supporters need to drop the attitude. SERIOUXLY.

v00d00daddy
08-30-2009, 01:05 AM
Weird game today. Dero was both the reason we didn't lose, and the reason we didn't win. If that makes any sense.

Red Rat
08-30-2009, 01:09 AM
Weird game today. Dero was both the reason we didn't lose, and the reason we didn't win. If that makes any sense.

Funny j was thinking the same.

TFCtoMUFC
08-30-2009, 07:09 AM
I think Frei is the best player on this team hands down. DeRo had an AMAZING chance early on and couldn't score, on the other hand Frei made an amazing save near the end of extra time. Frei is on our side, and hopefully for a long time.

I like Sam Cronin I think he is a good player, but seriously Gerba should've started over Barrett, considering Barrett had a pass from DeRo right on him and he couldn't move enough to get it.

jabbronies
08-30-2009, 07:20 AM
I thought the team played well today. They controlled the ball for good portions of the first half and a bit at the start of the second half. They clear chances that they unfortunatly couldn't finish. The moved the ball well, played with lots of speed. Some decent movement off the ball.

It wasn't until the latter portion of the second half that we started seeing the momentum shift and I wonder if it was due to lack of fitness? That's when they started loosing thier positioning a bit, starting doing the long ball shit etc.

I wouldn't say they were horrible though.

jabbronies
08-30-2009, 07:22 AM
De Ro and Gerba have played alot and well on the MNT, that is a large reason why Gerba was brought in. Yes, he is not the quickest , but you give him the ball around the box, and he will make things happen. Cummins needs to take advantage of that.

ussing Barrett once again as an out and out striker, coupled with the subs/lack of subs, is making me question Cummins, and I have been a supporter of his for the most part ( I still think that he is a great improvement over JC).

TFC does not play for Gerba...PERIOD.
He's not lazy. He runs his ass off and pressures the defence when he doesn't have the ball.
He is just never given the ball the way he should be given it. on the ground in and around the box.

jabbronies
08-30-2009, 07:29 AM
oh...and we are officially out of a playoff spot right now

WHITEY
08-30-2009, 07:31 AM
TFC does not play for Gerba...PERIOD.
He's not lazy. He runs his ass off and pressures the defence when he doesn't have the ball.
He is just never given the ball the way he should be given it. on the ground in and around the box.

Bingo! The problem is Cummins only brings him in at stupid times of the match when everyone is tired all they do is play long ass ball football. When Cummins decides to bring Gerba in (fucking guy should be starting but that's neither here nor there) tactics need to change to maximize what Gerba can do.

ensco
08-30-2009, 07:54 AM
I honestly think that Dero is doing what he is doing because he has no confidence in Barrett or Vitti scoring so decides to do it himself.

This is what happened yesterday, after Barrett missed the free header.

FluSH
08-30-2009, 08:13 AM
Glad we got a point. But FFS ...

No subs when we're under pressure in stopage and we have 2 left???
No shape on the pitch and an every man for himself formation where we punt or dribble until we loose possession???
Gerba all alone for the counter attack when you know the Sounders CBs are going to just paint the guy since there is no way he's going break away and run 65 meters and score???
I have to say, I'm begining to question our coaching.

We're lucky we got away with a point.:rant:

+1

1 sub... and it's Gerba for Barrett???

Heathen
08-30-2009, 08:18 AM
I don't know what has happened to Guevara. For the better part of last season, he was (in my opinion) the best player on out squad. Over the last few months, it looks like he's just aged in front of our eyes.

I wonder what it is?

It's called upcoming World Cup Qualifiers, there's been a similar pattern throughout his time with us

wzhxvy
08-30-2009, 08:44 AM
Why is it we bring in perfectly decent players to our team and then we don't utilize properly ?...ahhhh

TFC Tifoso
08-30-2009, 08:52 AM
Didn't expect much going into the game, but after it, couldn't help but think that we didn't earn 1 point, but rather lost 2 points.

Blows my mind that our two smartest offensive players (Vitti and Dichio) did not see one minute on the field in a crucial game......just doesn't make sense!

v00d00daddy
08-30-2009, 09:21 AM
This is what happened yesterday, after Barrett missed the free header.

Well how does he have confidence in himself? Before Barrett missed that open header I seem to remember DeRo missing an even easier chance by tripping all over himself.

He should have buried that. No excuses. I don't care if the turf is bad. That ball has to go in the net. If Barrett had missed that chance it would be all we're talking about.

DeRo shit the bed yesterday and we should have the balls to say it.

Btw.....Guevara should have kicked Dero in the balls when he stole that ball from him. Dero looked like a spoiled kid yesterday.

ensco
08-30-2009, 09:24 AM
^But what's your point? Sure, he had a weak game.

DeRo has 12 goals this year, Barrett has 3, Vitti has 2.

One has earned some credit, two others haven't.

Nuvinho
08-30-2009, 09:29 AM
Frei: Great as usual

Defence: Before the game started, I looked at the back 3 and was scared, because of Garcia and Gomez there. I know Gomez has done well for us, but the last game against Chivas he was a red card waiting to happen. He looked good yesterday. Garcia started off a little weak with a few bad passes, but other than that, he played a solid game.

Sanyang: He is going to be a pest game in and game out, other opponents will get frustrated with him, and take dumb cards. But Sanyang will take his fair share of cards.

Cronin: I know some of you won't agree with me. Sammy has done well for us the entire season, but I don't think CC is utilizing him enough. He is a box to box player, he could play CM and do a great job for us. He is able to link up the pass from the D to the front man. I think he could of been utilized better in that game.

Guevara: I would say that if he was able to take his own shot on that one play, and if he scored, we'd all be talking about what a great move.

DeRo: worked hard, but needs to let others get into the game. Like many who screamed at the TV when he stole the ball away from Guevara...I did the same.

Subs: Why bring a bench if you aren't gonna use them?

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2009, 09:35 AM
^But what's your point? Sure, he had a weak game.

DeRo has 12 goals this year, Barrett has 3, Vitti has 2.

One has earned some credit, two others haven't.

I don't really see where "credit" enters into it. A bad game is a bad game. DeRo was awful yesterday, aside from one or two balls he put in. I don't think the guy should be benched, since as you said, he's our top scorer. But there's no denying he was crap after the first quarter of the game or so.

I recall a nice cross Barrett put in to DeRo too, that DeRo shanked badly.

I love DeRo, but I'm with v00d00 - we need to call a spade a spade here. DeRo became a huge liability on the field, especially in the second half, and should have been substituted.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2009, 09:36 AM
Anyone take a look at the standings today?

We droped 2 spots last night from tied for 8th (last playoff spot) to 10th.

Colorado, 1 point behind us with 2 games in hand plays today.

So, by the end of today we could realisticly be in the lone 11th place overall spot.

"valuable" road point my ass.

You do understand that the table fluctuates after every game, right?

- Scott

v00d00daddy
08-30-2009, 09:50 AM
^But what's your point? Sure, he had a weak game.

DeRo has 12 goals this year, Barrett has 3, Vitti has 2.

One has earned some credit, two others haven't.
My point is that DeRo should take the blame for the lack of a result more than anyone else.

I don't care if had 30 goals going into last game. He doesn't get a free pass based on previous performances.

I can understand a missed opportunity (like dero had early in the game) but he was really bad after that.

Batman
08-30-2009, 09:56 AM
Total Shots: 11 Total Shots on Goal: 1

That alone pretty well summarizes this team's abilities and problems.

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2009, 10:29 AM
So you don't see the pattern of dropping down the table slowly as the season goes on? Fluctuation is fine and all, but we are going in one direction more than the other. After all, we've won 1 game in the last 10.

What's the point of complaining about that? We got a point from a game most people didn't expect us to get a point from. We also aren't out of the playoff race yet. Hence, it's a valuable road point.

- Scott

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 11:01 AM
Single point is nice but simply not enough. We needed a win. We now have 7 games of which we need 3 wins!

I'd love to see a show of hands of whoever thinks we can string a record like that playing the way we are right now?

I've got a real problem with the coaching right now. A real problem. I know Cummins hasn't been given an entire season but at this point I am seeing very poor tendencies from him that doesn't make me enthusiastic about bringing him back next year.

grizzle
08-30-2009, 11:10 AM
It seems like every week we are subjected to the latest Cummins experiment.

DeRo should have scored that first one, no excuses.

Barrett should have at least put it on the net on that first header.

Frei had a great game.

I guess 1 point will do and is not totally bad, but it should have been 3. Coincedence that we get a point when Robbo wasn't on the field?

canadian_bhoy
08-30-2009, 11:13 AM
Barrett once again did not look pleased to be subed off. One hopes that his anger was at his missed chances and poor second half play.

I was really pleased with gerba. He made a significant impact on the game, showed a lot of hustle and determination. He also looks to be in very good shape. How this guy was ever released from a low level English club I'll never know.

Really glad that dichio didn't get any minutes, he never influences the game.

bertal
08-30-2009, 11:20 AM
decent result, but they should bury those chances

FluSH
08-30-2009, 11:24 AM
Barrett once again did not look pleased to be subed off. One hopes that his anger was at his missed chances and poor second half play.

I was really pleased with gerba. He made a significant impact on the game, showed a lot of hustle and determination. He also looks to be in very good shape. How this guy was ever released from a low level English club I'll never know.

Really glad that dichio didn't get any minutes, he never influences the game.

Are you kidding me about Gerba? That's gotta be sarcasm... and I agree... Barrett was pisssssssssssT I mean Gerba went for the sub-off handshake/tap and Barrett didn't even acknowledge him...

Pookie
08-30-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm not sure of the reasons in favour of the "valuable road point" argument.

With that draw, we failed to gain any ground on Seattle. With that draw, New England, DC and RSL gained 2 points on us.

Let's get back to Seattle. They are 3 points up, though we have a game in hand.

Even if we do win the game in hand and end up tied with Seattle, they now have the tiebreaker as the first factor used is head to head record. Seattle is 1-0-1.

If that were the final playoff spot, they get in.

I will agree on one thing, it was a valuable point... for Seattle, New England, DC and RSL.

jloome
08-30-2009, 11:43 AM
What's the point of complaining about that? We got a point from a game most people didn't expect us to get a point from. We also aren't out of the playoff race yet. Hence, it's a valuable road point.

- Scott

Shakes, you seem like the nicest guy. I have to ask, why are you so optimistic all the damn time? Seriously man, if you never see fault in anything, there's never impetus for improvement. Do fans not play a role in that?

I agree with the sentiment this time, because it's seattle, and I expected us to lose. We played well, couldn't finish and were tactically second best in the second half.

But really, I feel sometimes like you just take the "stand by your team!" side almost every time. Counterbalance? Like being a defence lawyer?

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 12:03 PM
Ok I was at a wedding yesterday and I just now got to see the game.

I don't get what you guys are saying about DeRo....there was no more dangerous a player than DeRo yesterday. He was constantly creating chances for Toronto, especially in the first half. Yeah, sure, he could have done better with the open goal but looks as though he did slip on the crappy surface otherwise that was a goal!

And the setups? OMG...NOBODY else was setting up other players like DeRo. If it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have had nearly as many chances on goal. Guevara, Barrett, Cronin, all their chances created by DeRo. As to finish, that is a whole different matter. Most times DeRo would finish his chance so I won't dwell on that, but we know the biggest beefs we've had with Barrett all season long. He needs 10 chances to put one opportunity away. And Guevara has been invisible since June.

We dominated the first half because of DeRo. End of story. Yeah he does tend to try to do too much himself, but when you lack confidence with your teammates (FOR GOOD REASON!) what other choice does he have?

rocker
08-30-2009, 12:05 PM
Shakes, you seem like the nicest guy. I have to ask, why are you so optimistic all the damn time? Seriously man, if you never see fault in anything, there's never impetus for improvement. Do fans not play a role in that?

I agree with the sentiment this time, because it's seattle, and I expected us to lose. We played well, couldn't finish and were tactically second best in the second half.

But really, I feel sometimes like you just take the "stand by your team!" side almost every time. Counterbalance? Like being a defence lawyer?

you could say the same thing about the people who take the opposite opinion even when we win.

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2009, 12:09 PM
Shakes, you seem like the nicest guy. I have to ask, why are you so optimistic all the damn time? Seriously man, if you never see fault in anything, there's never impetus for improvement. Do fans not play a role in that?

I agree with the sentiment this time, because it's seattle, and I expected us to lose. We played well, couldn't finish and were tactically second best in the second half.

But really, I feel sometimes like you just take the "stand by your team!" side almost every time. Counterbalance? Like being a defence lawyer?

I see fault in all kinds of things. So far from yesterday's game, I've criticized Cummins' lack of subs, DeRo game overall, and our usual lack of finishing.

There are all kinds of things I'd like to change, and I've given my opinion on those things in the appropriate thread. What I don't get, is the point of constantly being negative about everything.

We played really well yesterday, and but for some bad shots, as well as some bad luck, we would have gotten the win. Instead, we got one point from a game most people people expected us to get nothing from. And instead of taking the positives from the game - that we looked really good as a unit, the defense was solid, we shut down a potent offensive team with an impeccable home record - some people are just choosing to grouse about the negatives. Always grousing about the negatives.

Our performance yesterday left me incredibly hopeful about our chances down the stretch - that we might actually be able to secure the points we need, to make the playoffs. And yes, that's me being optimistic.

When we play like crap, I call a spade a spade. And I've had no problem criticizing things like our coaching (in fact, I'm on record as sayign I don't think Cummins should be back as HC next season). But when someone's only reaction to an unexpected point on the road, after a really solid performance, is "valuable road point my ass", I really have to question what the point of being a fan is in the first place.

I think the reason I'm seen as being overly optimistic about TFC, is that I'm often very reserved in my displeasure. When the team stinks, I don't go nuts, curse and swear, and make multiple threads talking about how bad we are. I say my piece about what I think is wrong, what we need to do to fix it, and then I try to look to the next game. I'm just not an overly emotional person.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2009, 12:15 PM
Ok I was at a wedding yesterday and I just now got to see the game.

I don't get what you guys are saying about DeRo....there was no more dangerous a player than DeRo yesterday. He was constantly creating chances for Toronto, especially in the first half. Yeah, sure, he could have done better with the open goal but looks as though he did slip on the crappy surface otherwise that was a goal!

And the setups? OMG...NOBODY else was setting up other players like DeRo. If it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have had nearly as many chances on goal. Guevara, Barrett, Cronin, all their chances created by DeRo. As to finish, that is a whole different matter. Most times DeRo would finish his chance so I won't dwell on that, but we know the biggest beefs we've had with Barrett all season long. He needs 10 chances to put one opportunity away. And Guevara has been invisible since June.

We dominated the first half because of DeRo. End of story. Yeah he does tend to try to do too much himself, but when you lack confidence with your teammates (FOR GOOD REASON!) what other choice does he have?

Roogsy man, when this many peopel concur that a supporter demi-God like DeRo had a bad game, you gotta figure there's some truth to it, haha.

DeRo's individual skill always makes him relatively dangerous, and he had his usual couple of good set-ups, and scoring chances. But on several other occasions, he got stripped of the ball when there were incredibly obvious passing options available. And the shot he basically stole from Guevara, just to shank it himself, was an absolute howler.

And DeRo possibly not having much confidence in the rest of the team, is no excuse for going out there and unsuccessfully trying to play 1 v 11 over and over again. He needed to put his head up, and look for passes.

DeRo's great, but this was not a good game for him.

- Scott

rocker
08-30-2009, 12:18 PM
nothing wrong with that, shakes.

being positive or being negative is not right or wrong when games have yet to be played.

Nonetheless, if I was negative about our playoff chances, what could would it do? What's the point?
Would I win a prize at year end for being negative about our chances?

Human beings are interesting creatures, in that we want to project so much. We almost want to predict what is going to happen.

On the other hand, I go into each game without looking at the past or the future. Because anything can happen. Until we're officially eliminated or we officially make the playoffs, positivity is a perfectly good approach.

canadian_bhoy
08-30-2009, 12:28 PM
Are you kidding me about Gerba? That's gotta be sarcasm... and I agree... Barrett was pisssssssssssT I mean Gerba went for the sub-off handshake/tap and Barrett didn't even acknowledge him...


I was laying it on pretty thick. I'm glad you picked it up! :D

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 12:30 PM
Roogsy man, when this many peopel concur that a supporter demi-God like DeRo had a bad game, you gotta figure there's some truth to it, haha.

DeRo's individual skill always makes him relatively dangerous, and he had his usual couple of good set-ups, and scoring chances. But on several other occasions, he got stripped of the ball when there were incredibly obvious passing options available. And the shot he basically stole from Guevara, just to shank it himself, was an absolute howler.

And DeRo possibly not having much confidence in the rest of the team, is no excuse for going out there and unsuccessfully trying to play 1 v 11 over and over again. He needed to put his head up, and look for passes.

DeRo's great, but this was not a good game for him.

- Scott

He does get stripped often. And not just in yesterdays game. My biggest beef with DeRo is his insistence on trying to beat multiple players at once. When the quality of the league was not as good, I think he did this on a regular basis and it gave him the bad habit. Now that defending has improved, he has very little success. So in this regard, I would say it is not singular to yesterday's game.

But singling out DeRo for yesterday I think is a bit unfair. There were several underachievers yesterday including but not exclusively Barrett who deserve more of a look than DeRo.

We are all doing the very same thing DeRo is doing, which is the mistake of counting on him to do it all. He demands that of himself, and we seem to be demanding it of him. He did his job yesterday, end of story. Was it his best game? Probably not. But I would say it was still above average. And an above average game for him is still better than the rest of the team and I think was enough to win the game had it not been for the rest of the team not showing up.

The man can't carry this team on his back the whole season long! When are we going to make demands and expectations of the rest of the team? When will we stop giving everyone else passes?

Sanyang and Frei were the lone bright spots yesterday in my opinion. And they aren't there to produce goals. Right now, nobody is producing goals and we need to take a long hard look at the mids and forwards.

Even my favourites Vitti and Gerba, while I like what they bring, I am expecting more. Dangerous chances are one thing, but I need to see some goals. And I've pretty much given up on Barrett as a goal scorer. I like what he brings workwise and on the wings...I like it a lot in fact...but in front of the net he is useless.

And Guevara? OMG...invisible is a compliment to him yesterday. We could've played with 10 players and it would have been the same thing. Where has this guy been since June? He was one of my favourites!

I am not feeling good about our chances right now. People have to show up. NOW. DeRo seems to be the only one pumped for the games and playing balls out. I've got a real problem with the way the rest of the team is playing.

And don't get me started on the coaching. I hope we don't see Cummins here next season.

Lucky Strike
08-30-2009, 01:06 PM
I see fault in all kinds of things. So far from yesterday's game, I've criticized Cummins' lack of subs, DeRo game overall, and our usual lack of finishing.

There are all kinds of things I'd like to change, and I've given my opinion on those things in the appropriate thread. What I don't get, is the point of constantly being negative about everything.

We played really well yesterday, and but for some bad shots, as well as some bad luck, we would have gotten the win. Instead, we got one point from a game most people people expected us to get nothing from. And instead of taking the positives from the game - that we looked really good as a unit, the defense was solid, we shut down a potent offensive team with an impeccable home record - some people are just choosing to grouse about the negatives. Always grousing about the negatives.

Our performance yesterday left me incredibly hopeful about our chances down the stretch - that we might actually be able to secure the points we need, to make the playoffs. And yes, that's me being optimistic.

When we play like crap, I call a spade a spade. And I've had no problem criticizing things like our coaching (in fact, I'm on record as sayign I don't think Cummins should be back as HC next season). But when someone's only reaction to an unexpected point on the road, after a really solid performance, is "valuable road point my ass", I really have to question what the point of being a fan is in the first place.

I think the reason I'm seen as being overly optimistic about TFC, is that I'm often very reserved in my displeasure. When the team stinks, I don't go nuts, curse and swear, and make multiple threads talking about how bad we are. I say my piece about what I think is wrong, what we need to do to fix it, and then I try to look to the next game. I'm just not an overly emotional person.

- Scott

Hallelujah! +1 on all points (except for Cummins, I haven't decided yet). Otherwise, you and I are almost identical.

BallardSounder
08-30-2009, 01:18 PM
What a deeply frustrating game. From the other side of the pitch (I'll post the photos I took later) I thouht both teams looked flat, with some good chances, but with no ability to finish.

The fans were also pretty quiet, only doing the "Seattle...Sounders" call and response a few times, and never picking up on the 'clap clap clap Sounders' one. ECS did get a good pogo going a few times though, but the rest of the crowd was as lethargic as Jaqua. It seems like night games are more loud than day games.

I did think DeRo looked dangerous though, at least from a Seattle fan perspective, he was pretty much shredding our "defense". After Frei, he seemed to be the best for Toronto on the pitch, although Brad Evans was a close third due to his excellent passes.

pekduck
08-30-2009, 01:24 PM
What a deeply frustrating game. From the other side of the pitch (I'll post the photos I took later) I thouht both teams looked flat, with some good chances, but with no ability to finish.

The fans were also pretty quiet, only doing the "Seattle...Sounders" call and response a few times, and never picking up on the 'clap clap clap Sounders' one. ECS did get a good pogo going a few times though, but the rest of the crowd was as lethargic as Jaqua. It seems like night games are more loud than day games.

I did think DeRo looked dangerous though, at least from a Seattle fan perspective, he was pretty much shredding our "defense". After Frei, he seemed to be the best for Toronto on the pitch, although Brad Evans was a close third due to his excellent passes.

good to know... we were like... where are the chants from seattle fans? other than the lame seattle.. .sounders.. (which we substituted with Sonics :D and taught the green fans beside us) from the speakers... there was not much other than ecs across from the pitch...

dero had a shit game, he's good but it was lame to his own usual standard... it was.. disgusting...

i read the Seattle Times this morning, the artical was fairly balanced, i like the quote from Evans =)

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-30-2009, 01:43 PM
good to know... we were like... where are the chants from seattle fans? other than the lame seattle.. .sounders.. (which we substituted with Sonics :D and taught the green fans beside us) from the speakers... there was not much other than ecs across from the pitch...

dero had a shit game, he's good but it was lame to his own usual standard... it was.. disgusting...

i read the Seattle Times this morning, the artical was fairly balanced, i like the quote from Evans =)


I thought we play a great road game.. getting a point is what we needed..and thats what we did!..

Barretts missed header??? HOnestly he he cant finish that he shouldnt be in this level of football...disapointing! In all we deserved the 3 points!

Dero had a shit game?...cant agree here at all!!! The supporting cast that dero has around him up front hurts his play badly!
Btw DERO was named PLAYER OF THE MATCH....on the SOUNDERS CHANNEL on abc!

Point on the road! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!

pekduck
08-30-2009, 01:46 PM
I thought we play a great road game.. getting a point is what we needed..and thats what we did!..

Barretts missed header??? HOnestly he he cant finish that he shouldnt be in this level of football...disapointing! In all we deserved the 3 points!

Dero had a shit game?...cant agree here at all!!! The supporting cast that dero has around him up front hurts his play badly!
Btw DERO was named PLAYER OF THE MATCH....on the SOUNDERS CHANNEL on abc!

Point on the road! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!

it is what it is, dero had a shit game, below par to his own standard, talking about missing the net, he missed open nets, took ball away from own teammate, disrupted team offensives... way worse than barrett for this game...

period

of course, dero is player of the match on sounders, if its not him, toronto would have scored, lol

trane
08-30-2009, 01:47 PM
I agree with much of what is being said, and I think most reasonable observers are expressing similar views.

I have to say that while I have not been as hard on Cummins as most the desicion to start Barrett at striker floored me. While I love what Barrett brings on the wing HE IS NOT A STRIKER. This decision alone cost us the game, too then compound it by not bringing one of our real strikers on the field at the start if the second only compounded the error
.

ensco
08-30-2009, 01:47 PM
The DeRo thing is a sideshow. Every last person here would put him in their starting XI next week.

The much bigger issue is that Cummins needed to throw two more forwards on, and make formation changes, to press for the win.

It's not a valuable road point when the probability of your making the playoffs drops as a result of the outcome. How could Cummins not know that? Is there nobody in the FO capable of doing the math, or pulling up a website that'll show them this obvious truth?

I understand the point Shakes and others are making about attitude, there's a lot to that. My problem is, I can't be sanguine about the fact that our season is bleeding to death here. Just because it's happening gradually rather than suddenly, doesn't mean it's not happening.

pekduck
08-30-2009, 01:51 PM
I agree with much of what is being said, and I think most reasonable observers are expressing similar views.

I have to say that while I have not been as hard on Cummins as most the desicion to start Barrett at striker floored me. While I love what Barrett brings on the wing HE IS NOT A STRIKER. This decision alone cost us the game, too then compound it by not bringing one of our real strikers on the field at the start if the second only compounded the error
.


It's not a valuable road point when the probability of your making the playoffs drops as a result of the outcome.

Cummins needed to throw two more forwards on to press for the win. How could he not know that? Is there nobody in the FO capable of doing the math, or pulling up a website that'll show them this obvious truth?

I understand the point Shakes and others are making about attitude, but my problem is, I can't be sanguine about the fact that our season is bleeding to death here. Just because it's happening gradually rather than suddenly, doesn't mean it's not happening.

well, Cummins need to use subs better.. no doubt... he's not good at it through out the season

Barrett should not be the lone FC, he's much better on the wing... dichio/obw should be in 2nd half for dero, vitti should be on for amado late game...

i think CC just want to salvage a point after chivas embrassement.

Beach_Red
08-30-2009, 01:55 PM
i think CC just want to salvage a point after chivas embrassement.

That may be true and it's a problem. The team really needed to play to win - as they do every game now.

Candu_88
08-30-2009, 01:57 PM
Just watched the highlights. Dero's breakaway miss was not a field turf issue. His touch going around Keller was a bit too hard but not terrible. The flaw was his shot stride was way too long and that put his body weight way too far back and led to the kick off his own leg as he fell.

There is a reason why good coaches do a lot of speed ladder agility training drills. It is a critical soccer skill to be able to naturally adjust stride length with very quick feet. Whenever you are on a attacking run just before shooting your last stride has to be much smaller than normal. This keeps your body weight centred, knee over the ball and keeps the shot solid and low.

TFC has a good fitness coach, a good youth developer coach, and a good keeper coach. We need a finishing coach and a defensive coach to work on our technical flaws.

Yohan
08-30-2009, 02:07 PM
Our second half performance is rarely better than the first.. and that is only because Cummins gets out-coached. I don't know how else to explain it. I was telling myself we HAD to get a goal in the first half, because we sure as hell weren't after Seattle adjusts.
It felt like watching a similar game to Chivas game to me. Lots of creativity from offence, but just couldn't finish.

Then half time came, and Sigi adjusted. He was willing to make all three subs by 68th min, incl taking off his best scorer who had a bad game.

Cummins. What did he do? Can't adapt to changes in the game. Ride the status quo. Unwilling to make a decisive decision to shake things up. By mid 2nd half, TFC offence was sputtering. Change it up. Put in Dichio or Vitti. Do SOMETHING!

I am convinced that Cummins need more experience before taking an MLS head coaching job. But he will make a decent one in the future. So keep Cummins as assistant, and get a head coach with good MLS experience (or has ability to adapt to MLS) in off season.


Guevara did all the hard work for it to be stolen from his feet and blasted into orbit.

:picard:
Utter selfishness from DeRo. If I was Guevara, I'd kick DeRo's ass for that kind of shit. Guevara had the ball perfectly lined up and DeRo blasts it off to nowhere.


Am I alone in thinking that Garcia played very well today? Seattle has a lot of attackers who are either much bigger or faster then him and I think he held his ground well.

I thought Garcia had a decent game. Defence seemed less panicky than other times, though 2nd half was pretty bad.

Garcia paired up with a more physical and pacey CB partner is an ok solution, though Garcia needs the other 3 defenders need to be strong defensively.

Funny how Garcia looked better when Wynne is not playing RB. Attakora was a beast at RB.



We dominated the first half because of DeRo. End of story. Yeah he does tend to try to do too much himself, but when you lack confidence with your teammates (FOR GOOD REASON!) what other choice does he have?

There is no "I" in team.

There is trying to take the game by the scruff of the neck which great players do. Then there is DeRo trying to take on 3 defenders constantly and losing the ball. And stealing a teammate's shot. And getting into shoving matches with opposition.

I know DeRo is getting frustrated, but he's not a soccer god. He needs to wake the fuck up and give his head a shake.


Well said Shakes and Cheebs.

Some TFC Supporters need to drop the attitude. SERIOUXLY.

lol@seriouxly

I enjoyed the atmosphere at Qwest Field. The away supporter seats sucked at some place, because it partially blocked some parts of the field (like that huge pole at KC)

However, game day experience felt pretty similar to BMO Field. Pregame lots of people at pubs for pre drink. Love the 9am serving time for alcohol. Lots of people walking around the city wearing Sounders jersey. Oh, and about 3/4 of the stadium was full by kick off. (learn, Toronto. learn...)
Although there are less chants from Sounders supporter group, and only really powerful chant is the Seattle... Sounders... thing which is similar to our TFC clap clap clap.
Lots of raw potential though. Plus their supporters sit in one section, plus stadium acoustics meant when the supporter section got going with a chant, it was pretty damn good. But there was only one section with one partial section that was a real 'supporter section'.

No chants were piped through PA system, though the marching band was miked a few times. They had one chant on screen for 74th min, which I think is their version of Dichio 23.

Seattle supporters for most part were friendly, and seemed to appreciate TFC supporters making the trip. Some were a bit annoyed that I traded an RPB scarf for one of Sounders supporter group scarf but eh.

The local media gives a decent coverage of footy, with local news and newspaper giving a lot of print and time. The paper this morning had Sounders game on 3rd pg of sports section, while baseball was like 6th pg or something. The local paper had an article summarizing other MLS games of the day. Toronto media has a lot of catching up to do.

I think Seattle is worth going to for footy experience. This city actually cares about footy. Just don't expect much from anything else. City otherwise, not much to do IMO.

PS: Kudos to TFC supporters that made the trip. Esp those older folks.

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2009, 02:08 PM
It's not a valuable road point when the probability of your making the playoffs drops as a result of the outcome. How could Cummins not know that? Is there nobody in the FO capable of doing the math, or pulling up a website that'll show them this obvious truth?

I understand what you are saying, but this is only really the case if our season was one game long, and this was it.

Many people have worked out the theoretical math on how many points we need to get from our remaining games collectively, to likely make the playoffs. And yesterday, we got one of those necessary points from a game most expected to be a writeoff.

You have to look at the rest of our fixtures collectively, and try to project the final standings. Losing ground to teams like RSL this particular week, only matters if we have the exact same record as the teams ahead of us, from now until the end of the season.

The way I look at it, we have one more enexpected point to add to the points most of us think we can get from our remaining fixtures. Teams like NE and RSL have been as inconsistent as us this season, so we can realistically expect them to lose at least a couple of more games before this season is over.

This whole "percentage chance of making the playoffs" thing is dumb, because the percentage changes after every single game, and athletes are not consistent variables. For all anyone knows, we could go undefeated for the rest of the season. Or likewise, we could lose every single remaining game.

All that matters, is that we got a valuable road point, and we are far from mathematically eliminated from contention. If we win next week, and one or more of the teams directly ahead of us loses, things suddenly look less bleak again.

- Scott

Yohan
08-30-2009, 02:54 PM
Dunno if anyone commented on this yet, but who made that difficult flick under pressure that DeRo botched on 3rd min?

Chad Barrett

cmonyoureds
08-30-2009, 03:14 PM
Dunno if anyone commented on this yet, but who made that difficult flick under pressure that DeRo botched on 3rd min?

Chad Barrett


amen.

and really, Barrett should have scored on that header? does anybody realize he was almost flat out for it and just couldn't reach it? I guess now he's guilty of not growing any taller before the game......

DeRo played like crap. Somebody tell him there's 9 other players out there with him.

Blizzard
08-30-2009, 03:17 PM
Dunno if anyone commented on this yet, but who made that difficult flick under pressure that DeRo botched on 3rd min?

Chad Barrett

Yup, off that incredibly long drop kick from Frei. Barrett has quality. Most of us are willing to admit it. It's too bad the finish isn't there. He has talents. Scoring isn't really one of them unfortunately.

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-30-2009, 03:20 PM
I honestly think that Dero is doing what he is doing because he has no confidence in Barrett or Vitti scoring so decides to do it himself.
No its because he a selfish player who only thinks about DeRp and padding his stats..Talking the ball away from Guevara was inexcusable
and showed deep done his selfish attitude...if he keep the the whole team will have no confidence with him on the field at all..CC needs to bench him till he learns to play a TEAM game not a DeRo game.:(

ensco
08-30-2009, 03:51 PM
This whole "percentage chance of making the playoffs" thing is dumb, because the percentage changes after every single game, and athletes are not consistent variables. For all anyone knows, we could go undefeated for the rest of the season. Or likewise, we could lose every single remaining game.

- Scott

Are you sure you think it's "dumb"? Have you really looked at that site? It's a Monte Carlo simulation that probability weights every single combination of outcomes, from "going undefeated to losing every single game", and every combination in between. It adjusts for strength of schedule and home vs road record of each team.

It's not a predictor, which is what makes it useful. It just lays out outcomes.

It shows we need 42-43 points. Which means we need wins not ties. And now we have one less game to get the reuired number of wins in.

Nuvinho
08-30-2009, 03:59 PM
After the rapids win today.......we are now 11th out of 15.

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2009, 04:25 PM
Are you sure you think it's "dumb"? Have you really looked at that site? It's a Monte Carlo simulation that probability weights every single combination of outcomes, from "going undefeated to losing every single game", and every combination in between. It adjusts for strength of schedule and home vs road record of each team.

It's not a predictor, which is what makes it useful. It just lays out outcomes.

It shows we need 42-43 points. Which means we need wins not ties. And now we have one less game to get the reuired number of wins in.

You're right, and like I said, people have laid out the teams we have a good chance of beating, to reach that magic number of 42-43, and Seattle were not one of them. In fact, many people expected us to get absolutely pasted by Seattle yesterday. Considering how bad of a team we are on the road, getting a point from a tough opponent is a good result.

Perhaps "dumb" was a poor choice of word for these statistical models, but they certainly are far from relevant. There is no statistical model to account for the streaky, inconsistent nature of sports teams - and ESPECIALLY our team. The same team that looked pitiful against Chivas a week ago, went out and took it to Seattle, and but for a bit of fortune, would have gotten 3pts. Statistical models like these, treat a team's record as though it's a variable that progresses in a linear, consistent fashion. They would never predict, for example, that the Boston Red Sox would go on an 11 game losing streak this month.

And in a sample size of fixtures as small as we have left, the predictive quality of the data becomes even more questionable.

So, not "dumb", but certainly not worth getting depressed about. If we drop points in our important home fixtures, I will get depressed.

- Scott

ArmenJBX
08-30-2009, 04:31 PM
I believe in 12. I believe in 12. I believe in 12.

Just keep saying it over and over :D Playoffs this year no matter what!

We should get a big countdown thing on the front page, with 12. Everytime we get a point (or three) it goes down :D

Yohan
08-30-2009, 04:41 PM
Few more thoughts

-Attakora had great defensive game, but offensively needs to work on few things, esp crossing

-Gerba would have been more effective in 1st half when TFC was getting the ball in the Seattle box

-Kasey Keller had a lot to do with foiling DeRo and Cronin's chances. Did just enough to break concentration. Good GK is a good foundation for a good team and I think Keller is worth his huge salary

-Sounders supporters can do the Horto. Lots of potential in that group but still a lot of work to be done to catch up to us. However, if we get complacent, we will fall behind.

-Barrett's off the ball movement was getting DeRo a lot of space, AND TFC was exploiting the off the ball movement to find gaps in Seattle defence AND hit the open passes leading to first half success. That, plus good work rate to to fight and win the ball against Seattle

-Guevara had a better game than usual, but he still needs to step up more. His corners and freekicks were shitty though. At this rate, I'd let Guevara leave at the end of the season.

-Sanyang > Robbo. Sanyang has similar defensive quality, but can actually make that first pass which Robbo can't do consistently

-I <3 Frei

-Cummins could make better and more effective use of Cronin, but I'm not sure how

-DeRo MUST use better judgement. Trying to take on 3 defenders at once is NOT how you help the team

-another free header off a set piece that TFC defender fell asleep on. needs to cut that stuff out

ensco
08-30-2009, 04:57 PM
You're right, and like I said, people have laid out the teams we have a good chance of beating, to reach that magic number of 42-43, and Seattle were not one of them. In fact, many people expected us to get absolutely pasted by Seattle yesterday. Considering how bad of a team we are on the road, getting a point from a tough opponent is a good result.

Perhaps "dumb" was a poor choice of word for these statistical models, but they certainly are far from relevant. There is no statistical model to account for the streaky, inconsistent nature of sports teams - and ESPECIALLY our team. The same team that looked pitiful against Chivas a week ago, went out and took it to Seattle, and but for a bit of fortune, would have gotten 3pts. Statistical models like these, treat a team's record as though it's a variable that progresses in a linear, consistent fashion. They would never predict, for example, that the Boston Red Sox would go on an 11 game losing streak this month.

And in a sample size of fixtures as small as we have left, the predictive quality of the data becomes even more questionable.

So, not "dumb", but certainly not worth getting depressed about. If we drop points in our important home fixtures, I will get depressed.

- Scott

This is not the first time that you and I are saying similar things but it takes us a couple of long posts to get there! :)

Blizzard
08-30-2009, 04:59 PM
You're right, and like I said, people have laid out the teams we have a good chance of beating, to reach that magic number of 42-43, and Seattle were not one of them. In fact, many people expected us to get absolutely pasted by Seattle yesterday. Considering how bad of a team we are on the road, getting a point from a tough opponent is a good result.

Perhaps "dumb" was a poor choice of word for these statistical models, but they certainly are far from relevant. There is no statistical model to account for the streaky, inconsistent nature of sports teams - and ESPECIALLY our team. The same team that looked pitiful against Chivas a week ago, went out and took it to Seattle, and but for a bit of fortune, would have gotten 3pts. Statistical models like these, treat a team's record as though it's a variable that progresses in a linear, consistent fashion. They would never predict, for example, that the Boston Red Sox would go on an 11 game losing streak this month.

And in a sample size of fixtures as small as we have left, the predictive quality of the data becomes even more questionable.

So, not "dumb", but certainly not worth getting depressed about. If we drop points in our important home fixtures, I will get depressed.

- Scott

Agreed. We must earn nine points out of our three home games. We'll also need to pick up a few points on the road.

It was Cummins who said prior to this match that they figured we would require 12 points to make it into the play-offs.

OK, we're down to 11. Nine points from our three home games if the stars and planets are properly aligned plus a match against NYRB. We also have a road match against Colorado, a team at about our level this year.

This is entirely possible!

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 05:18 PM
There is no "I" in team.

There is trying to take the game by the scruff of the neck which great players do. Then there is DeRo trying to take on 3 defenders constantly and losing the ball. And stealing a teammate's shot. And getting into shoving matches with opposition.

I know DeRo is getting frustrated, but he's not a soccer god. He needs to wake the fuck up and give his head a shake.


Are there aspects to his game that I hope improve? Sure. The trying to beat 3 players at a time is one of them.

But I for one choose to concentrate on putting my attention on players that are not producing. DeRo is. Once the other players even get close to his level, maybe I will worry about his brainfarts. Like I said before, what you are doing is asking even MORE from DeRo, which is what he is doing to himself.

At some point we have to say "you know what? He's doing what we are asking of him, now we have to concentrate on the players that are NOT doing what they are supposed to be doing".

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2009, 05:28 PM
Agreed. We must earn nine points out of our three home games. We'll also need to pick up a few points on the road.

It was Cummins who said prior to this match that they figured we would require 12 points to make it into the play-offs.

OK, we're down to 11. Nine points from our three home games if the stars and planets are properly aligned plus a match against NYRB. We also have a road match against Colorado, a team at about our level this year.

This is entirely possible!

That game against the Energy Drinks should be considered a borderline automatic three points at this point, and with how bad they have been.

That, with three wins at home, would likely put us over the top. But even if we don't get all three, it's not like a win on the road is out of the question... or even a few draws to make up for it.

- Scott

v00d00daddy
08-30-2009, 05:30 PM
Are there aspects to his game that I hope improve? Sure. The trying to beat 3 players at a time is one of them.

But I for one choose to concentrate on putting my attention on players that are not producing. DeRo is. Once the other players even get close to his level, maybe I will worry about his brainfarts. Like I said before, what you are doing is asking even MORE from DeRo, which is what he is doing to himself.

At some point we have to say "you know what? He's doing what we are asking of him, now we have to concentrate on the players that are NOT doing what they are supposed to be doing".

I disagree Roogsy. In fact, I think we're asking LESS of DeRo. Less as in, take on the whole team by yourself LESS DeRo.

Steal the ball from your teammate LESS DeRo.

You're right..he has been producing this season but last night he flat out didn't contribute in the right way. He was a detriment to his team. He missed a simple goal really early on...fine...it happens.

He then spent the rest of the game trying to do way too much everytime he got the ball.

Then, as if he didn't waste enough of the ball on his own last night, he takes a shooting opportunity off of Guevara's foot and his shot was BRUTAL. If it had been the other way around (Guevara taking the shot after DeRo did all the work) this board would be demanding Guevara's head. You know it's true.

Then he gets pushed into the dasher boards (which two different TFC players did to Sounders players earlier in the game) and he loses it. Raises his hands to a player and walks away lucky that he only got a yellow card.

Terrible.

I'll tell you one thing. If DeRo plays games like that the rest of the season TFC's playoff chances are gonzo.

Also....DeRo should be thanking Frei today because if it weren't for Frei, DeRo would be getting most of the blame for the loss (and rightly so imo).

Also...I was a proponent of DeRo getting the armband one day but not if he plays like that on a regular basis.

He was terrible teammate yesterday and showed no leadership. Did not lead by example...that's for sure.

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 05:37 PM
Unsurprisingly I disagree.

By asking him to go against his instincts or change his game, we are asking more.

While it is asking less of him physically, it's asking more from his game. You are asking him to place confidence in players that thus far in the season have shown consistently not to deserve it.

DeRo has made a career playing with average players and trusting them enough to get the job done. Here, he doens't even have that. He has the average players who don't get the job done.

And there is no way DeRo was "terrible" yesterday. He made some mistakes and he made some brilliant plays. That's what high profile players do. The problem I see is that he is getting frustrated. And that to me is the biggest danger. Because his frustration isn't really with himself as it is with the rest of the players dropping the ball.

As for whether or not TFC makes the playoffs if DeRo plays games like that, that is by far the statement I disagree most. This team makes the playoffs if DeRo continues to play at least at the same level but if the rest of the players around him get the job done. Again you are doing what everyone else is doing which is relying solely on DeRo. It's so frustrating for me to see other players, especially players who get paid pretty much the same as DeRo, getting a pass like that.

v00d00daddy
08-30-2009, 05:49 PM
Fair enough but how do you explain Dero taking that shot off of Guevara's foot?

If Dero has no confidence in Guevara taking that shot then Tfc have a serious problem on their hands. I don't think that's the case. I just chalk it up to dero being greedy in that moment, which also isn't good.

Pookie
08-30-2009, 05:50 PM
You're right, and like I said, people have laid out the teams we have a good chance of beating, to reach that magic number of 42-43, and Seattle were not one of them. In fact, many people expected us to get absolutely pasted by Seattle yesterday. Considering how bad of a team we are on the road, getting a point from a tough opponent is a good result.
...
And in a sample size of fixtures as small as we have left, the predictive quality of the data becomes even more questionable.

So, not "dumb", but certainly not worth getting depressed about. If we drop points in our important home fixtures, I will get depressed.

- Scott

I think you are missing the point by focusing on total points and home points.

Go with me for a bit of a ride here. Here are the standings (updated with Colorado's win)


* Houston - 40 (5)
* Columbus - 39 (9)
* Chicago - 38 (6)
* LA - 38 (6)
Seattle - 34 (6)
New England 33 (9)
RSL 33 (6)
Colorado 33 (8)

-- out of the playoffs --

Chivas 33 (8)
DC - 32 (7)
Toronto 31 (7)

Remember that the tiebreaker is head to head record, then goal differential.

Here's our record vs the teams in the mix

Seattle 0-1-1 no games left - advantage Seattle
New England 1-0-1 no games left - advantage Toronto
RSL 0-1-0 1 game left - advantage RSL but RSL wins on goal differential
Colorado 0-0-0 2 games left - no advantage but Colorado wins on goal differential
Chivas 1-1-0 no games left - no advantage but Chivas wins on goal differnital
DC United 1-0-1 - no games left - advantage Toronto

Of the 6 teams in the hunt chasing the same 4 playoffs spots, we have an advantage over just 2 of them.

Forget total points, it is absolutely critical for us to win and draw vs Colorado at a minimum. It is equally critical to beat RSL to give ourselves a chance to win on goal differential.

Respectfully, I think this is the nuance that is missing from any conversation on the playoff push. Colorado and RSL are definite must wins. Forget whether those are at home or on the road. We can't play for the draw against these teams. In fact, we really can't play for the draw at all.

The draw in Seattle was a failure in a couple of ways. It allowed other teams to jump ahead of us. It gave Seattle the tiebreaker and did nothing for our goal differential.

H Bomb
08-30-2009, 05:50 PM
tie breaker is head to head....what a fucking bush league

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 05:59 PM
Fair enough but how do you explain Dero taking that shot off of Guevara's foot?

If Dero has no confidence in Guevara taking that shot then Tfc have a serious problem on their hands. I don't think that's the case. I just chalk it up to dero being greedy in that moment, which also isn't good.


No, no, no...DeRo has to learn to play with friends. this is true. :D

I think he's got it in his head that only he can carry this team into the playoffs and I simply don't think that can happen. This whole team has to contribute or we are going to fail. That is where the captain (Jimmy B or Robbo) has to speak with him and get him to see that. Sometimes I wish Danny was the captain because you know he would be able to make DeRo see that.

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 06:01 PM
The draw in Seattle was a failure in a couple of ways. It allowed other teams to jump ahead of us. It gave Seattle the tiebreaker and did nothing for our goal differential.


I agree. We needed a win. A draw is a consolation prize that does little to help us. The only thing good about this draw is that it wasn't a loss. That isn't saying much.

Lucky Strike
08-30-2009, 06:15 PM
tie breaker is head to head....what a fucking bush league

I disagree, it's much more fair when you really think about it. A big disadvantage in terms of quickly seeing which teams are ahead of who and what's needed, but more fair nevertheless.

jloome
08-30-2009, 08:04 PM
That game against the Energy Drinks should be considered a borderline automatic three points at this point, and with how bad they have been.

That, with three wins at home, would likely put us over the top. But even if we don't get all three, it's not like a win on the road is out of the question... or even a few draws to make up for it.

- Scott

They "borderline automatically" beat the crew 1-0 today and haven't lost since they let JCO go.

nimamalek
08-30-2009, 08:32 PM
That first half was the best I've seen the team play, even in the second when they were being pressed they didnt look bad until the last minute. I wouldnt start Robinson in the next game, his offensive disability is really hurting our team.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-30-2009, 08:39 PM
After the rapids win today.......we are now 11th out of 15.


guess this makes next weeks's game vs the rapids even more vital!!!!


2 points behinds the rapids....!!! and this also being our game in hand over RSL who are 2 points ahead!!!

OUr next 2 games are vs.....the 2 teams a head of us in the last playoff positions!!!!

I'll take the point in COL......and the 3points at home vs RSL on the 12th is a F'IN MUST!!

trane
08-30-2009, 09:03 PM
Yup, off that incredibly long drop kick from Frei. Barrett has quality. Most of us are willing to admit it. It's too bad the finish isn't there. He has talents. Scoring isn't really one of them unfortunately.

Exactly. In most situations he would be in my starting 11 just on the wing.

ensco
08-30-2009, 09:44 PM
We have won 6 of 12 at home. So based on form so far, we're 50% likely to win at BMO this year.

The odds of us winning all three games remaining at BMO (no draws) is 12.5%.

There's lots of reasons why these numbers may be somewhat higher or lower, but let's not kid ourselves about just how unusual it would be for us to pull that off.

Nuvinho
08-30-2009, 10:24 PM
based on form, past meetings this year, and also home advantage....I can see us getting results (win or tie) from 5 of our remaining games....hopefully they aren't all ties

@ COL - a tie would be reasonable - tie
COL - this should be a win, but since both teams playing for a spot - tie
@LAG - I'd love to say we'll win this, but LA is rounding into form - Loss
@CHI - Still has the quality to win at home - Loss
SJ - We should win this - win
RSL - RSL stinks on the road, but both teams fighting for a spot - tie
@NYRB - good form of late, but I think we can at least tie or win there - tie or win

7 to 9 pts.

troy1982
08-30-2009, 10:27 PM
tie breaker is head to head....what a fucking bush league

I guess Serie A is Bush League as well.

twistedchinaman
08-30-2009, 10:53 PM
@ Colorado - Draw or win. The altitude could be, but should not be, a factor. But we've won here before and we can do it again.
vs. Colorado - Win. I have faith in this one.
@ LA - Draw or loss.
@ Chicago - Loss.
vs. San Jose - Win. We won at their house, we should we able to win again.
vs. Salt Lake - Win. With the wind at our back, should be good.
@ New York - Win. Good way to top it all off.

That should be about 13 pts.

Yohan
08-30-2009, 11:35 PM
Fair enough but how do you explain Dero taking that shot off of Guevara's foot?

If Dero has no confidence in Guevara taking that shot then Tfc have a serious problem on their hands. I don't think that's the case. I just chalk it up to dero being greedy in that moment, which also isn't good.
DeRo better be crawling on his knees and begging Guevara's forgiveness

I thought DeRo stealing Guevara's shot was a huge slap in the face

curious to know what sort of repercussions come out of this

on that note, I think Guevara completely disappeared right after that incident...

twistedchinaman
08-30-2009, 11:39 PM
DeRo better be crawling on his knees and begging Guevara's forgiveness

I thought DeRo stealing Guevara's shot was a huge slap in the face

curious to know what sort of repercussions come out of this

on that note, I think Guevara completely disappeared right after that incident...

Probably went something like this:

G: What the shit man? I had a shot, what the fcuk's with stealing it from me?

...and now you fill in the blanks.

Yohan
08-30-2009, 11:44 PM
Probably went something like this:

G: What the shit man? I had a shot, what the fcuk's with stealing it from me?

...and now you fill in the blanks.
well, Guevara would be screaming at DeRo in Spanish, because you know, Guevara just hate speaking English :picard:

twistedchinaman
08-30-2009, 11:46 PM
well, Guevara would be screaming at DeRo in Spanish, because you know, Guevara just hate speaking English :picard:

Well, that was a rough translation methinks. :D

Still, DeRo needs to realize that there are people around him and that move was not very cool. But being a consummate pro I hope DeRo did say something and they kissed and made up.

Derko
08-31-2009, 08:01 AM
Unfortunately I did not get to see the match, and the 'Match in 6 Minutes' is only highlights, it appeared that TFC should have been up at least 2-nil in the first half.
Can someone give an honest and objective report on the match.

Cheers

brad
08-31-2009, 08:43 AM
Unfortunately I did not get to see the match, and the 'Match in 6 Minutes' is only highlights, it appeared that TFC should have been up at least 2-nil in the first half.
Can someone give an honest and objective report on the match.

Cheers

Basically, we controlled the match in the first half. Dominated play, didn't let Seattle settle on the ball. We pressed effectively, were first to every ball got behind the Seattle defense a number of times, but couldn't finish. We had 4 solid chances from what I remember (DeRo's fluff, Barrett's diving header, Guevera off the bar, and one other I think).

Second half, Seattle came back into the game, Sigi readjusted things and we didn't as normal.

We struggled to get the ball to our forwards in the second half - rather than addressing the issue, Cummins made the brilliant move of putting Gerba on.

DeRo was far too selfish, and tried to do it all himself.

T-Bird
08-31-2009, 08:59 AM
I missed most of the game but was able to catch a few snipets at my neice's B-day but they seemed to be played well...sounds like we deserved to win :(

RedMAN127
08-31-2009, 10:27 AM
Basically, we controlled the match in the first half. Dominated play, didn't let Seattle settle on the ball. We pressed effectively, were first to every ball got behind the Seattle defense a number of times, but couldn't finish. We had 4 solid chances from what I remember (DeRo's fluff, Barrett's diving header, Guevera off the bar, and one other I think).

Second half, Seattle came back into the game, Sigi readjusted things and we didn't as normal.

We struggled to get the ball to our forwards in the second half - rather than addressing the issue, Cummins made the brilliant move of putting Gerba on.

DeRo was far too selfish, and tried to do it all himself.

Think it was Cronin with the other chance; first half we looked really good, the formation and tactics seemed to be working very well, but missed two chances when the keeper was beaten.

Second half Seattle adjusted and Cummins didn't seem to be able to adapt the plan .. not using the subs was a big mistake, if he was protecting the tie why not put on some extra defensive players (cause Seattle was pushing hard), or if going for the win why not stack the front (Vitti and Dichio).

I was impressed with first half, but disipointed we couldn't control the whole 90, and we can't win if we don't finish those chances.

Derko
08-31-2009, 11:22 AM
Thanks for the reports, cheers

maninb
08-31-2009, 12:00 PM
I was pro-Cummins up until the Dichio debacle....IMO he almost cost us the game by refusing to substitute obviously tired players, like Guevarra, and DeRo...not to mention failing to give Dichio a chance. Gerba didn't get much service but he's very lazy in shutting down players or chasing loose balls...

Libra_60
08-31-2009, 12:51 PM
I did not see the first half only listened to it on the radio but this game we should have won. Even with the draw we lost in the standings. Dero was absolutely brutal in the second half. He is so frustrated with what's going on that every time he loses the ball or is fouled you can see the whine on his face. He needs to suck it up and be a man. Be a professional.

As for coach Cummins, he needs to make substitutions much earlier and to not use up his allowable subs and bring in DD for the added height in the box is just not right. We needed one goal and all we had out there late in the game was to many tired bodies.

He is running himself out of town and out of a job with the lack of creativity or at least not making the correct substituations. When is this guy finally going to get it. What the hell is Mo doing? It must be driving him round the bend also, it would have to.

Shep
09-03-2009, 01:27 AM
Are you sure you think it's "dumb"? Have you really looked at that site? It's a Monte Carlo simulation that probability weights every single combination of outcomes, from "going undefeated to losing every single game", and every combination in between. It adjusts for strength of schedule and home vs road record of each team.

It's not a predictor, which is what makes it useful. It just lays out outcomes.

It shows we need 42-43 points. Which means we need wins not ties. And now we have one less game to get the reuired number of wins in.

If you enjoy your football in percentages on some companies coolio webpage, have at it.

I also think it's dumb. I've looked at the site and find it amazingly unimpressive, and I laugh every time I see someone get all excited in the pants over a new number.

Also not a fan of doomsayers. If we don't make the playoffs, I'll deal with it then, I don't understand why people focus so much on the negative..

ENJOY THE BLOODY FOOTBALL, YOU COULD DIE TOMORROW.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-03-2009, 01:31 AM
ENJOY THE BLOODY FOOTBALL, YOU COULD DIE TOMORROW.

thats actually some serious words of wisdom there

ensco
09-03-2009, 07:00 AM
^OK Shep, you enjoy your football your way. That's pretty f$%^& patronizing.

You and I could both die tomorrow, either way.

sportclubstats is watched pretty closely by people in Las Vegas who use it to set betting lines.

How about you articulate why it's so "amazingly unimpressive" so that we can get a sense as to whether your opinion is worth listening to, or just uninformed drivel?

Shep
09-03-2009, 09:49 AM
^OK Shep, you enjoy your football your way. That's pretty f$%^& patronizing.

You and I could both die tomorrow, either way.

sportclubstats is watched pretty closely by people in Las Vegas who use it to set betting lines.

How about you articulate why it's so "amazingly unimpressive" so that we can get a sense as to whether your opinion is worth listening to, or just uninformed drivel?

Because people latch onto this % thing like it's some sort of logical guideline to judge the state of the club with. Yet we've seen the numbers jump all over the map after each result and honestly I think we'd be better off without the extra added "Look, here's some more proof we won't make it!" undertone people throw in with it.. when the truth is that anything can still happen, until we are 0% we still have a decent chance, the club can do it...and saying the club now only has a 26% chance to do it is absurd.

And I think the criticism of the last match was well undeserved, and I'm reacting.

Coming into a thread and reading this:

"We're not in good shape, even if we sweep Colorado we have a lot more to do.

All those of you satisfied with the result yesterday....

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/M...TorontoFC.html

the odds of TFC making the playoffs went down, from 32% to 26%, with the draw"

Like I'm supposed to now change my opinion that we played well in Seattle because of the magical % this site gives me.

I get that some people aren't happy with anything less than easily winning 90% of our games, and some seem to think they are professional football coaches and get on Cummins for everything they think he's doing wrong.

I noticed in the same thread you berate him for keeping 2 unused subs on the bench, and blaming him for our draw... what if he had subbed them, and one made an error and gave up a goal, losing us the match?.. then Cummins would have done something wrong again.. you would have had another problem with his tactics.

Nevermind that Seattle aren't easy, and in their own home nonetheles. We owned most of the match and held them back.

So this is me being a fanboy. I'm sick of the anti-TFC rhetoric, the coach-bashing, calling out players for not being 100% on the ball every minute of every game, all of it. It really seems like some people thrive on the negative aspects, and a few like to try to spread that around as much as possible. I'm all for constructive criticism, but that isn't the case with most of the points, people get personal towards our players and coaching staff, venting by insulting them.

This % machine only adds to that IMO. So I said I thought it was dumb, and I still do. A win next match brings us to nearly 50%..... and who knows beyond that, but saying 26% now makes it look like we are royally screwed, when we are far from it. Why even bother to quote the numbers?

TFC07
09-03-2009, 10:10 AM
If you enjoy your football in percentages on some companies coolio webpage, have at it.

I also think it's dumb. I've looked at the site and find it amazingly unimpressive, and I laugh every time I see someone get all excited in the pants over a new number.

Also not a fan of doomsayers. If we don't make the playoffs, I'll deal with it then, I don't understand why people focus so much on the negative..

ENJOY THE BLOODY FOOTBALL, YOU COULD DIE TOMORROW.

As in awful soccer? Sorry but, some of us got standards when comes to soccer. TFC is awful team right now. Their management and coaching staff are killing soccer with their amateur ways (Dichio incident being the recent example). Hopefully soccer gods can somehow give MLSE a brain so that they can fire management ASAP especially when it looks like TFC are not going to make it to the playoffs.

jloome
09-03-2009, 10:35 AM
^OK Shep, you enjoy your football your way. That's pretty f$%^& patronizing.

You and I could both die tomorrow, either way.

sportclubstats is watched pretty closely by people in Las Vegas who use it to set betting lines.

How about you articulate why it's so "amazingly unimpressive" so that we can get a sense as to whether your opinion is worth listening to, or just uninformed drivel?

Give it up Eugene, he's not going to rationalize it becuase he can't. It's a math formula based on season-long performance, which is as close as line makers are gonna get to the actual probability. We all know it's not sacrosanct. But simply writing it off as "amazingly unimpressive" is just stupid.

v00d00daddy
09-03-2009, 11:14 AM
Because people latch onto this % thing like it's some sort of logical guideline to judge the state of the club with. Yet we've seen the numbers jump all over the map after each result and honestly I think we'd be better off without the extra added "Look, here's some more proof we won't make it!" undertone people throw in with it.. when the truth is that anything can still happen, until we are 0% we still have a decent chance, the club can do it...and saying the club now only has a 26% chance to do it is absurd.

And I think the criticism of the last match was well undeserved, and I'm reacting.

Coming into a thread and reading this:

"We're not in good shape, even if we sweep Colorado we have a lot more to do.

All those of you satisfied with the result yesterday....

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/M...TorontoFC.html

the odds of TFC making the playoffs went down, from 32% to 26%, with the draw"

Like I'm supposed to now change my opinion that we played well in Seattle because of the magical % this site gives me.

I get that some people aren't happy with anything less than easily winning 90% of our games, and some seem to think they are professional football coaches and get on Cummins for everything they think he's doing wrong.

I noticed in the same thread you berate him for keeping 2 unused subs on the bench, and blaming him for our draw... what if he had subbed them, and one made an error and gave up a goal, losing us the match?.. then Cummins would have done something wrong again.. you would have had another problem with his tactics.

Nevermind that Seattle aren't easy, and in their own home nonetheles. We owned most of the match and held them back.

So this is me being a fanboy. I'm sick of the anti-TFC rhetoric, the coach-bashing, calling out players for not being 100% on the ball every minute of every game, all of it. It really seems like some people thrive on the negative aspects, and a few like to try to spread that around as much as possible. I'm all for constructive criticism, but that isn't the case with most of the points, people get personal towards our players and coaching staff, venting by insulting them.

This % machine only adds to that IMO. So I said I thought it was dumb, and I still do. A win next match brings us to nearly 50%..... and who knows beyond that, but saying 26% now makes it look like we are royally screwed, when we are far from it. Why even bother to quote the numbers?


I agree with you when it comes to relying on statistics to show what direction the team is headed in.

That being said, what are your reasons for feeling positive about the rest of the season?

And I'm not trying to stir the shit here. I'd really like to know.

From where I'm sitting, it's going to be really hard (almost impossible if they play the way they have for the past 20+ games) for TFC to make the playoffs this year.

TFC would have to become a team that they haven't been in 3 years. A team that wins somewhat consistently, while at the same time does not lose much at all.

So again....what brings on the positive outlook other than the fact that they are still "mathematically" in it?

ensco
09-03-2009, 12:01 PM
Give it up Eugene, he's not going to rationalize it becuase he can't. It's a math formula based on season-long performance, which is as close as line makers are gonna get to the actual probability. We all know it's not sacrosanct. But simply writing it off as "amazingly unimpressive" is just stupid.

TFC needs a fundamentalist sect or something for these guys.

DoubleUp
09-03-2009, 02:20 PM
I was watching highlights of the game, I realized that dero didnt really steal the ball from Guevera. If you look at where the ball was in relation to the defender, Dero had more advantage on the ball then Guevera. What Dero did wrong was not look to hit trailer comin down the wing who had more advantage than Dero's of balance shot.
I think if we can get Dero playing less direct and more holding the ball up to allow player to join the attack, we'll see a very competitive team. This is the main reason Dero is always taking on multiple defenders, because he doesnt stop running down the other teams throat,they have no choice!. If we can get dero to say,"hey I have advanced the ball in to the attacking third there 3 defenders around me that means two of my teamates are open" "I should pass".