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johnmolinaro
08-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Just wanted to pass along a few notes:

- Be sure to join us Friday for CBC Sports Soccer Plus+ as Brenda Irving and I talk all things soccer, including the Dichio issue:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/08/23/sp-soccer-plus.html

- As for Saturday's game, we're going to be doing a special 30-min pre-game show. Brenda hosts, with myself and Greg Sutton as guests.

- I'm also gonna be blogging during the live game (starting at 3pm) so drop by the chat and check it out:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/08/26/sp-tfc-blog-seattle.html

- Nigel and Jason will be in Seattle and calling the game.

- Special segments on Cummins and Dero will run during the broadcast, plus a feature on Leo Messi (look ahead to 2010 WC).

Cheers,

John
http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

johnmolinaro
08-27-2009, 02:05 PM
I talked about the Dichio saga on The Footy Show podcast today.



give a listen here if you're interested: http://tinyurl.com/lzp6a3


Will also be discussing Dichio tonight on the Fan with Nigel starting at 7pm (2 hour show).


John
http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

ilikemusic
08-27-2009, 02:07 PM
Will it be in HD?

I get King Network from Seattle on my Rogers package.

If they are broadcasting the game in HD (like they have for many Sounders home games this season) im going to be watching on their channel.

Sorry CBC. :hump:

deltox
08-27-2009, 02:42 PM
If you miss the game, the first airing of Game in an Hour on GOLTV is on Saturday night at 10:00 p.m. directly before a live broadcast of the MLS SuperClassico between LA Galaxy and Chivas USA from the Home Depot Center.

SoccMan
08-30-2009, 11:22 AM
I was not very impressed with the CBC coverage of the TFC Seattle game. For some reason the reception(picture quality) was not the greatest and the audio was not good either. I mean there were over 32,000 people in the stands today and I could not hear the sound of the crowd very well. They were loud,however,you would never know it from the broadcast. I watched the Gol TV coverage of LA/Chivas later in the evening and I thought the reception and audio was much better. Gol TV took the feed from ESPN and the coverage,reception audio was so much better. Moreover, Nigel Reed is a good man,however, he makes the game as boring as hell.

Wagner
08-30-2009, 11:24 AM
Nigel rules.
he's my fave of any/all TFC commentators.

DOMIN8R
08-30-2009, 11:25 AM
I thought it was petty good for Canadian domestic footie coverage. I'm looking forward to CBC WC2010 coverage.

FluSH
08-30-2009, 11:27 AM
Good to see Greg Sutton!!!

Sonny Cheeba
08-30-2009, 11:30 AM
Nigel rules.
he's my fave of any/all TFC commentators.

he made a few mistakes here and there. maybe he needs glasses or a little identification system, because numbers don't always work "corn rows = dero"

bee dubya
08-30-2009, 11:41 AM
The production yesterday was about the worst TFC game thus far. I think those games on the Score that were "mambo-rific" may have been better. The camera work was all over the place, the replays were erratic and the overall signal quality was poor at best (I've seen online streams that look better). I think it was quite obvious that this wasn't a CBC production and CBC were just getting some other feed and throwing their bug on top.

I look forward to seeing their TFC home game coverage on Sept 12 in HD, I'm sure it will be much better.

jloome
08-30-2009, 11:44 AM
Yeah, John, you guys should get a discount from whomever charged for that feed.

Lucky Strike
08-30-2009, 11:45 AM
^+1 on everything beedubya. At one point, you could see the "recording" on screen with the time elapsed (like you see on a home camera). And DeVos had a poor day commenting.

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 11:48 AM
I really like CBC's coverage of Toronto FC. It was a great job guys.

dag
08-30-2009, 11:52 AM
At 4:00 on Saturday afternoon I turned on my TV to the CBC HD channel (514 on Rogers) and frankly couldn't believe my eyes. The picture was terrible. Despite my interest in listening to Nigel call the game, I could not watch the CBC feed. Instead, I watched the Seattle local NBC affiliate (529 on Rogers) which boradcast the game in HD. Now that was a stunning picture - football as it's meant to be broadcast and watched.

I have to say, despite CBC's obvious interest in broadcasting a compelling poduct (your respect for the game is very clear), Saturday's broadcast was unwatchable.

wzhxvy
08-30-2009, 11:54 AM
I thought the pregame and everything except the game feed...was excellent. Great job guys...but the game feed...and the camera work...yikes.

Nuvinho
08-30-2009, 12:03 PM
I watched the pregame and halftime on CBC, but watched the actual game on NBC Seattle in HD, much better quality!!!

Redcoe15
08-30-2009, 12:11 PM
I watched the game yesterday on CBC HD. And the picture quality I saw on it just... how should I put it... SUUUUUUUCKED!!!

If you used that to sell the merits of high definition widescreen television, you'd fail miserably. The players and the pitch all looked just like you'd get on analog. I don't know what the CBC was thinking, but they need to give their heads a shake.

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 12:13 PM
That's not CBC Redcoe, that's the feed.

CBC is in charge of the broadcast when Toronto plays at home. The picture quality yesterday is not something you can put on CBC.

jazzy
08-30-2009, 12:17 PM
I was not very impressed with the CBC coverage of the TFC Seattle game. For some reason the reception(picture quality) was not the greatest and the audio was not good either. I mean there were over 32,000 people in the stands today and I could not hear the sound of the crowd very well. They were loud,however,you would never know it from the broadcast. I watched the Gol TV coverage of LA/Chivas later in the evening and I thought the reception and audio was much better. Gol TV took the feed from ESPN and the coverage,reception audio was so much better. Moreover, Nigel Reed is a good man,however, he makes the game as boring as hell.

For the first time ever, I could not see the game on TV, ( till the last half), and I listened on the fan 590, I commend the commentator, (Dan Donleavy?); a real fan, and he enabled me to feel the excitement of the game helping my imagination greatly, also he was almost drowned out by the superb crowd singing, which we heard perfectly, and to his credit at times just stopped to take all the atmosphere in. Superb! When at home on the TV, it was a completely different call...poor.

Dirk Diggler
08-30-2009, 12:48 PM
The NBC broadcast was outstanding ... I wanted to tune in to our own broadcast but the picture and audio quality was absolutely horrendous for an HD feed. The Seattle broadcast was like how HD should be.

DavydMT
08-30-2009, 12:50 PM
In my opinion it is about time producers and camera man in Canada/US learn how to present the live game. Positioning of the cameras, angles, movement of the cameras, zoom and switching between the cameras are not even close to any other major sports. And most of the major networks are guilty.

One thing that really bugs me is how close the zoom is, i prefer to see more of the field and players movement off the ball.

One question i have regarding the cbc coverage, do we really need 5ppl for away and 7ppl for home, to cover the game (3 in studio, 2 play-by-play and 2 on/around the pitch)

Thank you to CBC for putting the games on the main network, i hope we can get some WC games on the radio next summer.

mr k
08-30-2009, 01:19 PM
do we really need 5ppl for away and 7ppl for home, to cover the game (3 in studio, 2 play-by-play and 2 on/around the pitch)


agree here, too many Cdn footy broadcasts have way too many talking heads who really make less interesting comments than this board, have too many vested interests to say anything interesting and don't know the sport well enough to provide truly insightful commentary. And often this mindless press release type of talk is at the expense of showing the buildup to the match - players in the tunnel, walking out to the pitch, national anthems etc..

Money should put into production such as better training of the camera guys and director and have more cameras. Camera angles are often poor, way too much zoom used, way too much close ups on players who aren't near the ball anymore, slow to show replays and inappropriate timing of replays which then misses live action, mistimed and often boring crowd shots, and really weak audio (a particular weakness of CBC)

rocker
08-30-2009, 03:15 PM
ya there were a lot of camera problems yesterday. Massive zooms. Also, I don't have an HD TV but I think the regular broadcast image is chopped on the sides for regular TV, right? Cuz numerous times a player would run into the corner or off to the side and the camera never even showed the guy. I assume he was indeed onscreen in the wider HD screen.

As well, at one point I was seeing big white numbers on the screen... seemed to be the counting of the recording, or somethin. very strange.

Jeff s
08-30-2009, 03:24 PM
Is any one else kinda bothered with the audio? I find the audio on Nigel loud, while the crowd noise is non existent. This is the case for both home and away. We've had some good noisy games this year, but on tv u can barely hear anything at times. Its good to hear the commentator, but boosting the crowd noise makes the game more enjoyable. Gets boring listening to a guy talk and nothing else.

Blizzard
08-30-2009, 03:25 PM
ya there were a lot of camera problems yesterday. Massive zooms. Also, I don't have an HD TV but I think the regular broadcast image is chopped on the sides for regular TV, right? Cuz numerous times a player would run into the corner or off to the side and the camera never even showed the guy. I assume he was indeed onscreen in the wider HD screen.

As well, at one point I was seeing big white numbers on the screen... seemed to be the counting of the recording, or somethin. very strange.

There was obviously a major technical problem part way through the first half when the actual switched feed seemed to disappear and all we got was one high centre camera and that low end camera's monitor output instead of its program video out.

That was very weird. It was like someone interrupted the patch going to CBC with some sort of iso feed. It must have lasted five to seven minutes.

CBC definitely should get some money back.

Ya, we've seen this earlier in the year too, 16 x 9 chopped to 4 x 3. I'd take the feed letterboxed to avoid that.

Any chance of that JM?

johnmolinaro
08-30-2009, 03:29 PM
cbc have to get rid of brenda Irving she wore more makeup , she looked like a hooker, maybe that who cbc hires at on air personalities nowadays

Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John

JDG
08-30-2009, 03:43 PM
Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John

Agreed

boban
08-30-2009, 03:43 PM
Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John
+1. I agree.

DOMIN8R
08-30-2009, 03:44 PM
^^^ x 2

Fushida
08-30-2009, 03:44 PM
Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John

A good portion of this board already has him on ignore. I'm probably gonna be the newest addition to that list. I don't think he's quite capable of formulating intelligent points to be honest.

TFC USA
08-30-2009, 03:47 PM
Mighty you need to be banned.

This is more than enough....that's just uncalled for.

WHITEY
08-30-2009, 03:48 PM
Mighty you need to be banned.

This is more than enough....that's just uncalled for.

Agree, he's way out of control and way out of line.

Blizzard
08-30-2009, 04:00 PM
Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John


Incredibly offensive. Just when you think that particular individual can't sink any lower, he finds a way to do so. I guess we all have to remember to "consider the source".

ensco
08-30-2009, 04:07 PM
^This individual is now the inaugural member of my ignore list.

Lucky Strike
08-30-2009, 04:08 PM
Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John

Sadly, it's par for the course for that man.

Heart of Stone
08-30-2009, 04:47 PM
Although it was good to see Greg Sutton again I think he needs more time to grow into the position of in studio analyst. He seemed only slightly less nervous than Tie Domi was when TSN brought him in for a few weeks. I'm sure Sutton will improve if given time and opporunity.

H Bomb
08-30-2009, 04:57 PM
aaaahahahahaha this thread is funny as fuck.

CBC, you've been good before, you were crap yesterday. The commentators obviously too big a script to get in during the game because whenever there is a stoppage they random onto some bullshit i couldnt care about. talk about the game...jeeeesus north americans just dont understand that we dont want frills. The picture quality was streamingly good. I had to watch the NBC feed on mute for the second half.

DavydMT
08-30-2009, 06:31 PM
Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John

Agree +3 and she is a very good broadcaster.

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-30-2009, 06:42 PM
Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John


sorry the quote has been removed by me...been a bad day

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 07:06 PM
The post has been dealt with. Totally unacceptable. Let's move on.

CBC did a great job yesterday. I hope they get the feed issue sorted out because that was the only downside to the broadcast.

And kudos for bringing on Greg Sutton.

Blizzard
08-30-2009, 07:22 PM
Although it was good to see Greg Sutton again I think he needs more time to grow into the position of in studio analyst. He seemed only slightly less nervous than Tie Domi was when TSN brought him in for a few weeks. I'm sure Sutton will improve if given time and opporunity.

Yup. We just need to see how far DeVos has come in a couple of years.

Forrest had been doing some English television prior to coming home so he was a bit more tv-ready when he premiered doing TFC matches.

Dirk Diggler
08-30-2009, 07:44 PM
By the way, this is not related to the topic at hand but any development on the proposed CBC Sports channel? I've not heard any news recently about it and wondered whether it had become a victim of the budget cuts at the network ... which would not surprise me considering how the channel was supposed to cover amateur sports, which is a really tough sell in this country.

Roogsy
08-30-2009, 10:17 PM
You know what? CBC should have a sports channel but make it so it's self-sufficient. They won't be getting anymore government funding anytime soon.

Boondaddy
08-30-2009, 10:25 PM
Good to see Greg Sutton!!!

There's only one Greg Sutton! :scarf:

jloome
08-31-2009, 11:22 AM
Your personal attack on Brenda Irving is WAY over the line.

If you have a critique of her or the CBC broadcast, that's fine. Express that in an intelligent and thoughtful fashion.

But to resort to saying someone "looked like a hooker" is offensive beyond description.

John

John, I suspect he's about 12.

DOMIN8R
08-31-2009, 11:51 AM
:deadhorse:

Ipswich1
08-31-2009, 01:28 PM
NBC Seattle Broadcast was stunning HD. But their commentators and Pre-game shows are terrible. It took the commentators 30 mins of pregame and 50mins of the game to stop calling TFC Coach..John Carver, I think someone from Toronto must have phoned their studios to inform that Carver quit 3 months ago and Cummins had taken over.

cincy
08-31-2009, 01:38 PM
I watched on NBC ... The feed was 10 times better. Sorry to say

jabbronies
08-31-2009, 01:55 PM
That really high angle was a bit odd. It was a good attempt at showing more of the game as the ball was being booted out of the zone and then being marched back in, but it needs to be refined a bit.

JonO
08-31-2009, 02:24 PM
CBC did a great job yesterday. I hope they get the feed issue sorted out because that was the only downside to the broadcast.
A little flippant here, no? The feed is the primary reason I watch a channel. Hate to say it, but after I found out the NBCW was better I immediately switched.

I generally like the job CBC is doing (... as long as there is not another better feed), but this is more than a little downside.

I hope it is address with whomever is responsible...

On the bright side, the CBC sunday night movie looked pretty good in HD... ;)

daner90
08-31-2009, 02:24 PM
I watched the first half on NBC for the video quality and than watched the second half on CBC because I couldn't stand to hear the announcer say "Sebastian Frei" one more time

TFCRegina
08-31-2009, 03:12 PM
I watched the first half on NBC for the video quality and than watched the second half on CBC because I couldn't stand to hear the announcer say "Sebastian Frei" one more time

It's ok, NBC also said CC was JC...several times.

American broadcasting rule Number 1.

When you make a mistake, repeat the mistake as often as possible to reinforce your lack of knowledge about the topic.

Parkdale
08-31-2009, 03:15 PM
question:

I heard there were reused crowd shots during the game (aka shots of loud supporters at times when they wern't actually loud).

John: do you guys just get a pre-cut video stream from their master control? Was that done by the Qwest field guys?

ilikemusic
08-31-2009, 03:16 PM
The picture on NBC-West was a million times better than CBC's.

It was hilarious to listen to them though. They called DeRo simlpy 'Rosario' for most of the match. They called Stefan Frei something like Sebastian Frei for much of the first half and they must have been pretty desperate to see Pablo Vitti play because they called Guevara and DeRo Vitti at least once.

CBC's picture was just brutal though.

Oh, and Mighty is the worst poster here. You would do well to put him on ignore.

If you can even figure out what he is trying to say through all of his grammatical errors, its probably something completely asinine and useless anyways.

TFCRegina
08-31-2009, 03:17 PM
Just wanted to pass along a few notes:

- Be sure to join us Friday for CBC Sports Soccer Plus+ as Brenda Irving and I talk all things soccer, including the Dichio issue:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/08/23/sp-soccer-plus.html

- As for Saturday's game, we're going to be doing a special 30-min pre-game show. Brenda hosts, with myself and Greg Sutton as guests.

- I'm also gonna be blogging during the live game (starting at 3pm) so drop by the chat and check it out:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/08/26/sp-tfc-blog-seattle.html

- Nigel and Jason will be in Seattle and calling the game.

- Special segments on Cummins and Dero will run during the broadcast, plus a feature on Leo Messi (look ahead to 2010 WC).

Cheers,

John
http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

I'm not going to lie, I thought Sutton was the most comfortable and capable of the three of you. I'm not a fan of Brenda Irving as I find her voice irritating but at least she's enthusiastic about the topic...or she pretends to be, I can't tell.

And you're in my bad books right now. I still watched, but I do get irritated sometimes with the way you go about approaching the staff with questions, thankfully this broadcast had none of that. I feel sometimes as if it's rude with the aggressiveness that you pursue the various topics. This isn't to say that you shouldn't press the coaching staff, merely that you can do it in a little bit nicer way.

Super
08-31-2009, 03:18 PM
We also had the NBC feed going - much better quality.

SilverSamurai
08-31-2009, 03:26 PM
The feed was bad, but I know it wasn't CBC's fault.
Overall I'm content.
Obviously theirs room for improvement but I'll watch CBC over any gringo broadcast anytime.
Now if it's in Spanish, then it's another story... lol

DOMIN8R
08-31-2009, 03:44 PM
I'm not going to lie, I thought Sutton was the most comfortable and capable of the three of you. I'm not a fan of Brenda Irving as I find her voice irritating but at least she's enthusiastic about the topic...or she pretends to be, I can't tell.

And you're in my bad books right now. I still watched, but I do get irritated sometimes with the way you go about approaching the staff with questions, thankfully this broadcast had none of that. I feel sometimes as if it's rude with the aggressiveness that you pursue the various topics. This isn't to say that you shouldn't press the coaching staff, merely that you can do it in a little bit nicer way.

I dare say. You, my friend, are in the minority. And if you work for MLSE, you should just come clean about it.

VPjr
08-31-2009, 03:45 PM
And you're in my bad books right now. I still watched, but I do get irritated sometimes with the way you go about approaching the staff with questions, thankfully this broadcast had none of that. I feel sometimes as if it's rude with the aggressiveness that you pursue the various topics. This isn't to say that you shouldn't press the coaching staff, merely that you can do it in a little bit nicer way.

I personally believe it is VERY REFRESHING to finally have a few members of the Toronto-area sports media who cover TFC holding TFC staff/management to account. It simply doesn't happen enough, which is incredibly disappointing and likely due to the fact that most people who cover soccer know nothing about the sport so they just keep their mouths shut and print whatever crap their given. John knows the game and he knows BS when he hears it so he called Cummins out....good on John for doing that.

Right now, there are few "print" (online and traditional) sources that I can count on for a truly critical analysis of TFC. Kristian Jack and John Molinaro are two of my most trusted sources.

If TFC isn't held to account, it is the supporters who will suffer the most. They must be kept under pressure. Complacency is cancer in the pro sports business.

H Bomb
08-31-2009, 03:53 PM
I personally believe it is VERY REFRESHING to finally have a few members of the Toronto-area sports media who cover TFC holding TFC staff/management to account.

i'm sorry, when has this ever happened?

johnmolinaro
08-31-2009, 06:03 PM
I personally believe it is VERY REFRESHING to finally have a few members of the Toronto-area sports media who cover TFC holding TFC staff/management to account. It simply doesn't happen enough, which is incredibly disappointing and likely due to the fact that most people who cover soccer know nothing about the sport so they just keep their mouths shut and print whatever crap their given. John knows the game and he knows BS when he hears it so he called Cummins out....good on John for doing that.

Right now, there are few "print" (online and traditional) sources that I can count on for a truly critical analysis of TFC. Kristian Jack and John Molinaro are two of my most trusted sources.

If TFC isn't held to account, it is the supporters who will suffer the most. They must be kept under pressure. Complacency is cancer in the pro sports business.

Thanks for the kind thoughts. I often wonder if people even read my stuff and if it's even been worth sticking my neck out on this Dichio thing. Your words have re-assured me somewhat.

As for being too aggressive in how I approach players and coaches and being antagonistic in how I ask questions, well, I respecfully disagree.

I pride myself in being courteuous and polite, while at the same time being direct and professional, when questioning people.

John
http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

UltraSuperMegaMo
08-31-2009, 06:15 PM
Thanks for the kind thoughts. I often wonder if people even read my stuff and if it's even been worth sticking my neck out on this Dichio thing. Your words have re-assured me somewhat.

As for being too aggressive in how I approach players and coaches and being antagonistic in how I ask questions, well, I respecfully disagree.

I pride myself in being courteuous and polite, while at the same time being direct and professional, when questioning people.

John
http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro

I was a little surprised by something up said in Thursday edition of the footyshow podcast. You mentioned that other players on the team told you what the real situation with Dichio is, but did so off the record. Is it really within the bounds of journalistic integrity to report that you were told things off the record, when you cannot comment specifically on what you were told (sorry I couldn't think of a less convoluted way to put it)?

I'm not asking this to be a jerk, it just seemed a little strange.

johnmolinaro
08-31-2009, 06:19 PM
I was a little surprised by something up said in Thursday edition of the footyshow podcast. You mentioned that other players on the team told you what the real situation with Dichio is, but did so off the record. Is it really within the bounds of journalistic integrity to report that you were told things off the record, when you cannot comment specifically on what you were told (sorry I couldn't think of a less convoluted way to put it)?

I'm not asking this to be a jerk, it just seemed a little strange.

No, in fact, none of the players have told me anything.

John

Pigfynn
08-31-2009, 06:26 PM
John said a source...never said a player

TFC USA
08-31-2009, 06:31 PM
For those bitching about CBC's coverage please refer to the following clip and count the following mistakes this guy makes.

gf1WzJDT6Vo


Maybe it's because I'm not much of an HD guy but I'd like some god damn quality announcing and this guy calling DeRo "Rosario" drives me batshit insane.

And this vid doesn't include calling CC, JC and Stefan Frei, Sebastian Frei.


With all that said I have no idea what the heck that problem was by CBC the first few minutes regarding the camera.

Oh well it's 1 game and the home games are much better in quality.

H Bomb
08-31-2009, 06:40 PM
^^ I just muted the game. I dont need someone telling me whats happening, i'm watching it. I do however like to be able to visually tell the players apart...a lot more difficult on the CBC feed

jloome
08-31-2009, 06:51 PM
I was a little surprised by something up said in Thursday edition of the footyshow podcast. You mentioned that other players on the team told you what the real situation with Dichio is, but did so off the record. Is it really within the bounds of journalistic integrity to report that you were told things off the record, when you cannot comment specifically on what you were told (sorry I couldn't think of a less convoluted way to put it)?

I'm not asking this to be a jerk, it just seemed a little strange.

No, it's not really within the bounds, and John should know better. While I'm sure his sources are very good, if you don't have them on the record, it's technically like not having them at all, from an ethical standpoint.

Commenting on off-the-record or "on background" material to impugn that the team for being dishonest is unethical (even when it's true.) You're still using the background material for something, which you're not supposed to do, and you're making a statement about facts of the case without revealing them to support your statement.

Having said that, I can understand his frustration at having something he can't confirm publicly. Been there lots of times. My suggested remedy? Strong drink.

Sea Tac Sounder
08-31-2009, 07:09 PM
Hey,

I just wanted to say it's kinda funny to read this thread because I was happy this game was on CBC. Many of us here in Seattle have grown tired of Kevin Calabro (the man who made all the mistakes on our broadcast).

He's had a whole season to get better but he still can't get stuff as basic as players names right.

You may cringe when he calls DeRo "Rosario" (so did I). Now imagine if Nigel Reed called your players the wrong names?

ie: "Montero leaves it for Zakuani, I mean Nyassi".

Yes, he's that bad. Which is a shame because like you all said, we have great HD picture quality on NBC and the later replays on FSN.

That said, I can't stand the commentary and usually just shut it off. I recorded the game on CBUT Channel 99 as well as NBC and the difference in commentating was drastic. Prefer Nigel over Kevin any day of the week.

We had a great guest commentator, a English guy named Arlo White. Hope he replaces Calabro next season.

That said, I'll take our picture over yours. And Nigel Reed is way too much of a homer for my tastes. He is in a booth remarking on not being able to hear the crowd. Duh you can't hear the crowd much from the broadcast booth at Qwest even when there are 67,000 there. Someone should have told him that or he should have been listening to the broadcast mics cause we were plenty loud.

Anyway Im gonna have a beer in your honor. To great commentary and better HD. :drinking:

SilverSamurai
08-31-2009, 07:11 PM
I personally believe it is VERY REFRESHING to finally have a few members of the Toronto-area sports media who cover TFC holding TFC staff/management to account. It simply doesn't happen enough, which is incredibly disappointing and likely due to the fact that most people who cover soccer know nothing about the sport so they just keep their mouths shut and print whatever crap their given. John knows the game and he knows BS when he hears it so he called Cummins out....good on John for doing that.

Right now, there are few "print" (online and traditional) sources that I can count on for a truly critical analysis of TFC. Kristian Jack and John Molinaro are two of my most trusted sources.

If TFC isn't held to account, it is the supporters who will suffer the most. They must be kept under pressure. Complacency is cancer in the pro sports business.
Never thought of it this way. Now that I do, I have to agree.

SilverSamurai
08-31-2009, 07:14 PM
For those bitching about CBC's coverage please refer to the following clip and count the following mistakes this guy makes.

gf1WzJDT6Vo


Maybe it's because I'm not much of an HD guy but I'd like some god damn quality announcing and this guy calling DeRo "Rosario" drives me batshit insane.

And this vid doesn't include calling CC, JC and Stefan Frei, Sebastian Frei.


With all that said I have no idea what the heck that problem was by CBC the first few minutes regarding the camera.

Oh well it's 1 game and the home games are much better in quality.
Dude sounds like a baseball broadcaster. lol

Sea Tac Sounder
08-31-2009, 07:16 PM
Dude sounds like a baseball broadcaster. lol

Close. He's a basketball broadcaster who knew nothing about soccer really until this year.

People want to cut him a break because his voice has always been a big part of Seattle sports but he plain sucks at soccer commentary.

Dirk Diggler
08-31-2009, 07:58 PM
Hey,

I just wanted to say it's kinda funny to read this thread because I was happy this game was on CBC. Many of us here in Seattle have grown tired of Kevin Calabro (the man who made all the mistakes on our broadcast).

He's had a whole season to get better but he still can't get stuff as basic as players names right.

You may cringe when he calls DeRo "Rosario" (so did I). Now imagine if Nigel Reed called your players the wrong names?

ie: "Montero leaves it for Zakuani, I mean Nyassi".

Yes, he's that bad. Which is a shame because like you all said, we have great HD picture quality on NBC and the later replays on FSN.

That said, I can't stand the commentary and usually just shut it off. I recorded the game on CBUT Channel 99 as well as NBC and the difference in commentating was drastic. Prefer Nigel over Kevin any day of the week.

We had a great guest commentator, a English guy named Arlo White. Hope he replaces Calabro next season.

That said, I'll take our picture over yours. And Nigel Reed is way too much of a homer for my tastes. He is in a booth remarking on not being able to hear the crowd. Duh you can't hear the crowd much from the broadcast booth at Qwest even when there are 67,000 there. Someone should have told him that or he should have been listening to the broadcast mics cause we were plenty loud.

Anyway Im gonna have a beer in your honor. To great commentary and better HD. :drinking:

Nigel Reed used to mess up our player names a lot in the inaugural season. Every black player on the team was "Cunningham" to him. He did not even correct himself on most occasions.

UltraSuperMegaMo
08-31-2009, 08:26 PM
John said a source...never said a player

Thanks for the clarification, but still think it's a little iffy to say the least.

ensco
08-31-2009, 08:32 PM
No, it's not really within the bounds, and John should know better. While I'm sure his sources are very good, if you don't have them on the record, it's technically like not having them at all, from an ethical standpoint.

Commenting on off-the-record or "on background" material to impugn that the team for being dishonest is unethical (even when it's true.) You're still using the background material for something, which you're not supposed to do, and you're making a statement about facts of the case without revealing them to support your statement.

Having said that, I can understand his frustration at having something he can't confirm publicly. Been there lots of times. My suggested remedy? Strong drink.

Ben Knight did pretty much the same thing. Yet, they both deserve more credit than blame, overall, because they were alone on this thing (Ryan Johnston was sort of on it, late, to be totally fair)

In some larger sense, John and Ben tried to harness the boards to get the story, and perhaps got singed a bit. This whole business of how chat boards (with or without reporters) influence outcomes is pretty wild west stuff, and virgin territory, as it relates to journalistic ethics.

JamboAl
08-31-2009, 08:55 PM
Hey,

We had a great guest commentator, a English guy named Arlo White. Hope he replaces Calabro next season.



Arlo White is an excellent commentator and does most of his work for BBC Radio Five Live on football but mostly cricket, I think. He'd be a great addition if you can get him.

andyc
08-31-2009, 09:59 PM
I personally believe it is VERY REFRESHING to finally have a few members of the Toronto-area sports media who cover TFC holding TFC staff/management to account. It simply doesn't happen enough, which is incredibly disappointing and likely due to the fact that most people who cover soccer know nothing about the sport so they just keep their mouths shut and print whatever crap their given. John knows the game and he knows BS when he hears it so he called Cummins out....good on John for doing that.

Right now, there are few "print" (online and traditional) sources that I can count on for a truly critical analysis of TFC. Kristian Jack and John Molinaro are two of my most trusted sources.

If TFC isn't held to account, it is the supporters who will suffer the most. They must be kept under pressure. Complacency is cancer in the pro sports business.

+ 1 for sure.

I believe that John has walked a very difficult path with this issue in an extremely honorable way. Many of us in the Dichio thread were encouraging John to keep digging and he did this in a very respectful manner. When is asking polite questions about outlandish and unbelievable excuses wrong? If you are talking shit, people have the right to question your integrity.... C'mon it happens on here from time to time... :D

The problem is TFC management are not used to being questioned... The norm they've been operating under is mention that we're an expansion team and how great the fans are and the few reporters listening have their story for tomorrow.

TFC need to recognize that to some extent they are starting to get what we have all wished for - real press coverage... John is attending practices regularly and asking the tough questions. Congratulations TFC you have graduated to a major league team in TO, so now your mistakes are going to be very public.

Time to start treating players and fans with respect that we deserve...

BallardSounder
08-31-2009, 10:09 PM
Close. He's a basketball broadcaster who knew nothing about soccer really until this year.

People want to cut him a break because his voice has always been a big part of Seattle sports but he plain sucks at soccer commentary.

I'm one of those about to give up on KC. He's a great announcer, but he's taking WAY too long to get up to speed on soccer. I pretty much always put it on mute and just enjoy the HD as if I were there, without the innane chatter.

TFC USA
08-31-2009, 10:11 PM
If Calabro is doing radio commentary along with TV he should consider the radio audience by a lot more.

Instead he babbles one for no fuckin reason.

twistedchinaman
08-31-2009, 10:12 PM
You guys got Arlo White to call a game? That's incredible...he calls cricket, I've never heard him call football, that should be a trip if you could manage to get him.

SilverSamurai
08-31-2009, 10:16 PM
I'm one of those about to give up on KC. He's a great announcer, but he's taking WAY too long to get up to speed on soccer. I pretty much always put it on mute and just enjoy the HD as if I were there, without the innane chatter.
Fair enough.
I would hope he's gotten better b/w the 1st game and now.

Reed often does correct himself though I find. I like him. Nice to hear things from a Canadian perspective.

twistedchinaman
08-31-2009, 10:18 PM
Arlo White is an excellent commentator and does most of his work for BBC Radio Five Live on football but mostly cricket, I think. He'd be a great addition if you can get him.

^ Arlo calls a lot of one-day cricket which only few TMS callers can do well, and should get a lot more work Test-wise if Blowers (bless that man) retires within the next couple years.

I doubt he'll be working for Seattle.

TFC USA
08-31-2009, 10:21 PM
Arlo White on his Twitter page said it was a one-off because Calabro was on vacation or something.

jloome
08-31-2009, 11:14 PM
Ben Knight did pretty much the same thing. Yet, they both deserve more credit than blame, overall, because they were alone on this thing (Ryan Johnston was sort of on it, late, to be totally fair)

In some larger sense, John and Ben tried to harness the boards to get the story, and perhaps got singed a bit. This whole business of how chat boards (with or without reporters) influence outcomes is pretty wild west stuff, and virgin territory, as it relates to journalistic ethics.

It's a thin line. Very tough call, because a lot depends on whether that ethical breach is required due to an overwhelming public concern. Not sure footie qualifies for that under pretty much any circumstance, short of a publicly traded company doing something untoward. It's not really the use of chat boards that's at issue, it's saying you know there's more to the story when that knowledge comes from off the record material. That's the part that isn't ethical, but common these days anyway.

andyc
08-31-2009, 11:34 PM
It's a thin line. Very tough call, because a lot depends on whether that ethical breach is required due to an overwhelming public concern. Not sure footie qualifies for that under pretty much any circumstance, short of a publicly traded company doing something untoward. It's not really the use of chat boards that's at issue, it's saying you know there's more to the story when that knowledge comes from off the record material. That's the part that isn't ethical, but common these days anyway.

I understand your point of view, but isn't this based on the traditional media (print or maybe TV/radio) position? BTW - I remember you posted about your job in the past and this isn't a bash on you...

In that world a few friends may get to hear the inside story based on rumour and leads but the masses that couldn't be trusted weren't allowed a peak behind the curtain...

Given blogs, FB, Message Boards and Twitter, the inside story is spread a little further. Still not to the masses but to the interested parties that care to spend a little time looking.

Just my 2 cents...

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-01-2009, 12:45 AM
I think that problem is that John's making a statement of fact, namely that the real story about Dichio has nothing to do with the team's "official" explanation, based on source that can't be verified. Secondly, referencing specific "off the record" information in a general way, it's kind of like having your cake and eating it too.

ensco
09-01-2009, 06:10 AM
jloome, you're only sorta right about this imho. But I will acknowledge that you have worked in a newsroom for a long time and I never have, so your view should count for more. That said....

Both John and Ben were pleading that we stop the guessing (and it was one of the mods whose judgment I respect who closed the thread). I trust them enough to respect their wishes without knowing their reasons why. I'm assuming somebody was unnecessarily getting hurt by the guessing, and that the speculation was now counter-productive.

Neither of them ran a piece saying they knew something but couldn't go with it. Instead they blogged it here. The reporters kind of hid behind the site's implied mandate to avoid speculating when it hurts players or the team (I think this mandate has been inappropriately invoked by mods in the past, but for me it was correctly applied here). Is blogging on a third party's site the same thing as reporting it? You're saying yes, I see that, but I'm OK with the extenuating circumstances, given the relationship the reporters have with the particpants here.

Maybe we'll never know what the story was, but we probably will, and if it isn't adding up at that point, well, there are lots of people here with long memories. I guarantee you/them I would rip them both! :hump:

jloome
09-01-2009, 11:00 AM
jloome, you're only sorta right about this imho. But I will acknowledge that you have worked in a newsroom for a long time and I never have, so your view should count for more. That said....

Both John and Ben were pleading that we stop the guessing (and it was one of the mods whose judgment I respect who closed the thread). I trust them enough to respect their wishes without knowing their reasons why. I'm assuming somebody was unnecessarily getting hurt by the guessing, and that the speculation was now counter-productive.

Neither of them ran a piece saying they knew something but couldn't go with it. :hump:

Actually, that's not correct, Eugene. John repeated that on his gameday broadcast, that there was more to the story but that "we won't go into that", or something along those lines.

So it was out of bounds. Even in the context you're describing, familiarity can't be argued as a defense, because these boards are publicly open to pretty much anyone who wants to sign up. So there could well be dozens of people on here just lurkign who've never even heard of john.

Shway
09-01-2009, 11:57 AM
Nigel Reed used to mess up our player names a lot in the inaugural season. Every black player on the team was "Cunningham" to him. He did not even correct himself on most occasions.

LOL
i thought i was the only one who heard this.
Its happened plenty of times this year, even in the Nutrilite.
not only NIgel though, everyone does it from Dobson, to Craig, to even Luke,

:facepalm:

Ageroo
09-01-2009, 12:02 PM
LOL
i thought i was the only one who heard this.
Its happened plenty of times this year, even in the Nutrilite.
not only NIgel though, everyone does it from Dobson, to Craig, to even Luke,

:facepalm:

Is it really that hard.....All they even have to do is know the numbers. :D

Shway
09-01-2009, 03:20 PM
^^yeaa
like its so profound when you hear
Ibrahim is making a wrong down the line,...oh im sorry thats Nana Attakora, Ibrahim is actually not on, matterfact hes away on national team duty lol

i may be exaggerating but its along those lines

Dirk Diggler
09-01-2009, 05:45 PM
LOL yeah ... it has happened this season as well ... I guess I've stopped noticing these obvious mistakes after how common they became in the first two seasons. Sometimes on away games it is sort of justifiable because they are most probably watching a grainy feed on a small tv screen in order to call the game but I absolutely cannot understand how those mistakes can be made for home games.

ilikemusic
09-04-2009, 02:06 PM
Nigel Reed used to mess up our player names a lot in the inaugural season. Every black player on the team was "Cunningham" to him. He did not even correct himself on most occasions.

I remember the time Edu scored and the PA guy at BMO announced Cunningham. :lol:

Dirk Diggler
09-04-2009, 03:57 PM
I remember the time Edu scored and the PA guy at BMO announced Cunningham. :lol:

LOL ... with mistakes like this, you'd think that we've never seen black people up here in Canada. No wonder Cunningham said something like "Now I'll be going up there scoring goals in front of all the white people in Canada" when we acquired him from RSL.

TFCRegina
09-06-2009, 01:26 PM
I dare say. You, my friend, are in the minority. And if you work for MLSE, you should just come clean about it.

Yes, I'm an employee of Maple Laugh Sports and Entertainment, I eat Toronto Maple Leaf fans' hearts for breakfast, TFC supporter dreams for supper and piss on all the support shown from the supporters of all MLSE teams ever created.

I asked him to be more polite, not to stop, perhaps you should read more, and not pick out one sentence that you disagree with...