Post-Match: Toronto FC vs. Chivas

[Shakes McQueen]

Have at it. I'm tremendously disappointed - poor tactics (again), some poor efforts from some of our better players. Just poor all over.

I'm not even mad. I'm just disappointed. They better recover from this. We can afford to lose a few games, but not much more than that.

- Scott

[ArmenJBX]

Good night boys, I'm tired. See you in a bit.

The worst part of tonight is that it finally proved that if we're fucking awesome in one game, we are really really bad in the next three. Enjoy the bumpy ride.

I better wake up and see Robbo has been waived.

Also, set up a MIA for DeRo...

[Hooligan69]

Abysmal performances on the pitch no longer surprise me.

[AdamZ]

just not playing as a team, and playing with no tactics.

I'm sorry, we need a proper head coach. Even if Cummins gets us into the playoffs, even if we win the MLS Cup.

[TFC USA]

If TFC were a Trophy Manager team the entire ASI would be 150000.

149950 go to DeRo, Frei, and The Gambian kids.

Our average finishing would be 7.

Our marking would be -66.



The backline needs to be revamped. Serioux, Attakora, and the Gambians stay. Fellinga hasn't played yet. All the other regular starts like Brennan, Wynne, and Robbo should go.

[Sonny Cheeba]

good night. that was poor.

[MG42]

so sad...long ball rears it's ugly head again...why can't they keep it on the ground?

[TFC USA]

Oh and the streak continues of losing games by multiple goals in MLS play when we're shut out.

[Shakes McQueen]

Serioux was pretty crappy tonight, as several of us predicted he would be if played at left-back. And yet Cummins put him there anyway, instead of trying the new guy who plays there natively. I just don't get it.

- Scott

[Inklink]

There appears to be no system on the pitch. Incredibly frustrating to watch. Looks like the players are just running into opposition players, falling down, taking a piss and running around aimlessly.

Don't have an outlet? Pass back to Stefan Frei. I swear we must lead the league in that.

[Cobblers]

Formation killed us from the get go again. No creativity. No service to our strikers. Some very poor defending. It's been asked a thousand times but if we are going to pump balls up to our strikers in the air why is DD not on the pitch? He can shoulder-turn a defender on Real Madrid, creating a goal, but he's not good enough for an MLS regular season match (there better be more to this story).

[wzhxvy]

Not a good performance obviously...I worry most about out ability to adjust to other teams' tactics...

[TFC USA]

If football is a game of intelligence and strategy then Cummins and most of the players should be riding the short bus to every game.

[Shakes McQueen]

Formation killed us from the get go again. No creativity. No service to our strikers. Some very poor defending. It's been asked a thousand times but if we are going to pump balls up to our strikers in the air why is DD not on the pitch? He can shoulder-turn a defender on Real Madrid, creating a goal, but he's not good enough for an MLS regular season match (there better be more to this story).

Someone mentioned that Dichio wasn't on the bench tonight. I'm really starting to wonder if something is up with him.

- Scott

[Nuvinho]

Serioux was pretty crappy tonight, as several of us predicted he would be if played at left-back. And yet Cummins put him there anyway, instead of trying the new guy who plays there natively. I just don't get it.

- Scott

I agree.......since it was a road game, you figure that the kid Gomez may not be ready yet for the away crowd. I was hoping to see Wynne-Nana-Serioux-Fellinga.

The 2nd thing. Why not play with a 4-4-2, and put DeRo where he is more comfortable playing.

-----------Robbo------------
Vitti-----------------Cronin
-----------Guevara---------
------DeRo----------------
--------------White-------

[ArmenJBX]

The thing is we don't know how to play football. We play our own little sport. Seriously, Cummins needs to sit down, watch every single Barcelona game in the 08/09 season back to back, play FIFA 10 over and over with them, then get to work. Our backline doesn't adjust, our strikers don't get service, we have no tactics. It's very amateur. I'm sorry, but this isn't joga bonito. This isn't even joga.

[Nuvinho]

Someone mentioned that Dichio wasn't on the bench tonight. I'm really starting to wonder if something is up with him.

- Scott

I looked on the subs listed on mlsnet, and he wasn't there in the matchcentre thread. As well, didn't Section 117 say that one player was not travelling with the team (not including Jimmy B).

[kshep]

just horrible.. say what you want about the tactics but it's hard to be tactical when your playing with piles of shit. Sure you can throw it, kick it and generally play with it but in the end you just end up covered in gray shit.

[Cobblers]

The 2nd thing. Why not play with a 4-4-2, and put DeRo where he is more comfortable playing.-

Fully agree. I will never understand playing one striker (especially with the style we play under cummins). We need DeRo's creativity down the middle...

[TFC USA]

Dichio has been bitch slapped since year 2. This year we start Barrett over and over again even during his shitty run while Dichio was getting little to no playing time. Cummins is turning into Carver.

This is a disgrace.

[Shakes McQueen]

Dichio has been bitch slapped since year 2. This year we start Barrett over and over again even during his shitty run while Dichio was getting little to no playing time. Cummins is turning into Carver.

This is a disgrace.

You're assuming Dichio was left off the squad completely, for no good reason. The fact that Dichio wasn't even on the bench, makes me think something else is up.

- Scott

[TFC USA]

The lack of playing time is what has me worried.

It's not like he's gassed after 20 minutes. He makes an impact almost immediately.

There is something about Dichio that makes this team click.

[dow117]

just not playing as a team, and playing with no tactics.

I'm sorry, we need a proper head coach. Even if Cummins gets us into the playoffs, even if we win the MLS Cup.

Spot on ... Cummins has no tactics : the lads have never executed on set plays or even corners - disgraceful to not even be the least bit dangerous - an embarrasing outing

[T0R0NT0 FC]

That was incredibly boring and frustrating... how can they play SO bad after last week? I havent' seen Guevara play well or consistant since the first couple matches of the season. Lets' go back to the young, aggressive team from last week, with maybe a couple changes....

------------Frei--------------
Wynne--Nana--Gomez--Felinga
----------Sanyang-----------
Cronin-------------------Gala
------------Vitti-------------
-------Gerba----DeRo-------

[kshep]

Spot on ... Cummins has no tactics : the lads have never executed on set plays or even corners - disgraceful to not even be the least bit dangerous - an embarrasing outing


Something has to be said about the fact that the players themselves aren't executing on set plays. Two if not more of our corners were complete shit, as far as I can see that should be laid at our players feet, not the coaches. Poor choices on throws, once again the players.. piss poor free kicks.. once again the players.. not everything can be laid on Cummings.

[Ageroo]

That was incredibly boring and frustrating... how can they play SO bad after last week? I havent' seen Guevara play well or consistant since the first couple matches of the season. Lets' go back to the young, aggressive team from last week, with maybe a couple changes....

------------Frei--------------
Wynne--Nana--Gomez--Felinga
----------Sanyang-----------
Cronin-------------------Gala
------------Vitti-------------
-------Gerba----DeRo-------

I like this lineup...but I think I would slot Brennan in his natural midfield position instead of Gala.

[Blizzard]

I looked on the subs listed on mlsnet, and he wasn't there in the matchcentre thread. As well, didn't Section 117 say that one player was not travelling with the team (not including Jimmy B).

Two players didn't travel (as Cummins said yesterday on TFC TV). Ibby was the other.

[T0R0NT0 FC]

I like this lineup...but I think I would slot Brennan in his natural midfield position instead of Gala.

:D I figured JimmyB and Dichio would make an appearance as subs at some point during the match with that as the starting lineup. :scarf:

[backbeat]

we started 4-5-1 i believe and i have no idea why

if this was the game to possibly pick up 3 or at least 1 - either 4-4-2 or go the same as last week with 3-5-2 - whatever way you slice it why not 2 up front?

and why sub Guevara and Cronin off

Robbo was piss poor tonight, White had NO support and is far too young to left alone up front

really disappointing - although i thought TFC would pick up 3 maybe 4 on this 3 game swing....

NOW LET'S DO IT!!!!

[twistedchinaman]

Losing this game is disappointing, but...lose in Seattle, and I will be fucking mad.

[barca99]

Piss-poor performance tonight all-around!:facepalm: I can't even think of a single positive to take away from this one. I still think the biggest problem with this team is formation. No one seems to know where they are or where they are going... what a gong show! I had a good laugh though when Barrett passed the ball back to Nana and then wandered in a circle for 20 seconds with no clue where to go.

Forget about this one and move on. Points next weekend are a must! Seattle or bust!:scarf:

PS: What the fuck is going on with Dichio??? He didn't even make the trip? What's up? I hope he didn't retire as someone suggested, this team could still use him!

[andyc]

You're assuming Dichio was left off the squad completely, for no good reason. The fact that Dichio wasn't even on the bench, makes me think something else is up.

- Scott


I'm sure that something is up but it isn't his health...

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

You must love deRo then!! FFS with less the 5 mins in the first half he takes the ball just outsdie the Chivas box and puts the ball 10 miles over the net ( ok, just high) this is becoming a habit for him..hey Dero the net will not grow..place it on the god damn net!! CC needs to syb DeRo when hes not playing well, no special treatment for him if others can come off so can Dero.

[Dub Narcotic]

One of the most boring games of the year. Reminded me a little bit of the RSL road game: TFC came out well, couldn't score, got scored on, and kind of gave up. This midfield is clearly not working. Are the players not good enough? The tactics? I'm not smart enough to know, but TFC has no idea how to break down teams that get back quickly. In the first half, they played a lovely double triangle down the right that resulted in a Wynne cross, but apart from that TFC always seem to have less men than opponents, and can never work through the middle. This Chivas team is not very good, this was a disappointing loss. Guevera was very lazy on the first goal.

[barca99]

You must love deRo then!! FFS with less the 5 mins in the first half he takes the ball just outsdie the Chivas box and puts the ball 10 miles over the net ( ok, just high) this is becoming a habit for him..hey Dero the net will not grow..place it on the god damn net!! CC needs to syb DeRo when hes not playing well, no special treatment for him if others can come off so can Dero.


I agree he has been holding onto the ball too much lately. He needs to use his teammates, but then again, who is open? And everyone on the team is guilty of this

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I agree he has been holding onto the ball too much lately. He needs to use his teammates, but then again, who is open? And everyone on the team is guilty of this

no question..that is true we win and lose as a team but where is shooting the ball over the cross bar going to help? at least make the goalie earn his paycheque by making a save at least.

[kaos197O]

I agree he has been holding onto the ball too much lately. He needs to use his teammates, but then again, who is open? And everyone on the team is guilty of this


Vitti was wide open once and would have had the whole net to shoot at in the first yet DERO tried to be superhero with three guys on him as opposed to passing and in the second, both Gerba and Barrett made runs down the left(also wide open) yet he elected to pass to MARVEL WYNNE who had had two guys in his vicinity and is a defender. Late in the half he chose not to cross, lost control and walked it out for the goal kick. That's just off the top of my head. He ball hogged tonight and didn't do a very good job of it I might add. I am not suprized that Gerba took that shot from 40 yards out as opposed to passing to the open DERO on the right. You get what you give.

Dissappointing tonight Dero, dissappointing!

[T.O TILL I DIE]

o man tonights game was horrendous lol :picard:

[kaos197O]

Guevera was very lazy on the first goal.
Guevara has been lazy for the last 8 or 9 matches and that's why he was benched last week and subbed out early this week. Even though we have 2 guys sitting out next week ue to Reds I would be very suprized to see Guevara get the start in Seattle. He simply shows no desire and I'd rather lose with the kids getting some experience than with the seniors sucking the life out of the game and me for that matter!

[T.O TILL I DIE]

r the tfc supporters gonna be at the seattle game or no?
if so how many

[AL-MO]

r the tfc supporters gonna be at the seattle game or no?
if so how many

Approximately 50

[Brooker]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/nirvana123/dichiomilk.jpg

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

we need the instincts of killers when we're most vulnerable but it never seems to come :(

[T.O TILL I DIE]

really thats all we usually bring so much more whats going onn??

[AL-MO]

really thats all we usually bring so much more whats going onn??

Look at yourself in the mirror for a moment and think about what you just posted.

[Hooligan69]

We need a better performance vs. Seattle.

[egoodwin]

his corner kicks the last month or so have been absolutely atrocious, I don't know wtf he is trying to do.. hell even Barrett's corner tonight was more dangerous than anything Guevara has sent in since June

[VPjr]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/nirvana123/dichiomilk.jpg

He played with the reserves this week in a Friendly vs. U of Saskatchewan or something like that.

Scored 2 goals.

Barrett scored 2 goals too

Unless he got hurt in that game, his absence from today's lineup was unlikely due to injury.

[Derko]

An utter disgrace, no excuses, last week TFC played like winners, this week TFC played like losers.

[T.O TILL I DIE]

lol sry the red patch boys usually bring more supporters*

[AL-MO]

lol sry the red patch boys usually bring more supporters*

Do you know where Seattle is? Its across the fucking continent!

50 is pretty good given the distance. (and considering we didn't send anyone to LA for last nights game)

[T.O TILL I DIE]

ya true true lol
and i was thinking including u-sector there will be a fair amount ;)

[mastermixer]

If you think Chivas was frustrating just wait till we play Seattle. Yeah they have lost some games but they play amazing as a team and I have a bad feeling they will dance circles around us next week.

[grizzle]

I wanted to bet big on this game... glad I didn't.

[trane]

Why did we go away from the three CB back line. Three CB who stay home and defend, ( Nana-Gomez-Serioux) is better then four wandering out of position all over the field.

The first goal allowed killed us. Simple. But it was shite.shite. shite defending. I am very tiered of them defendign like school girls. They were also lucky not to get some more cards. I will get shit for this but I do not care, I want to see an Italian coach, meaning one that learned the trade in Italy and was certified in Italy, too teach this fucking team to defend, and play set pieces. I am tiered of wasting corners and too often free kicks.

For those who will shit about boring football, playing inconsistend football is boring.

Having said this. I do not thing that this was a terrible game we got fucked by a momentary lack of concetration on the corner. It is frustrating, but it is not time to panic. I think Guevarra is started to show his age, I said that last week I have to repeat it. I hope that Gerba and OBW get to play most of the season together, with De Ro playing centraly just behind them. Threemen back line three CBs. Two Dms.

[Oldtimer]

I will get shit for this but I do not care, I want to see an Italian coach, meaning one that learned the trade in Italy and was certified in Italy, too teach this fucking team to defend, and play set pieces. I am tiered of wasting corners and too often free kicks.


Good luck getting an Italian coach, or at least a good one from the top two levels. There is very little chance we would get one to even consider coming here. You can dream, though.

Our best chance in that dept would be getting a Canadian who knows that type of play (John Limniatis knows how to build a team that can defend, and brought the Impact to Italy for the pre-season, they came out with one of the best defences in USL-1).

TFC is horribly inconsistent right now. All MLS squads are inconsistent, right up to the coaches, or they'd be somewhere else, not in MLS. However TFC seems a little worse than most. Chivas was beatable. BTW we beat them with DD on the pitch.

[Section 117]

You're assuming Dichio was left off the squad completely, for no good reason. The fact that Dichio wasn't even on the bench, makes me think something else is up.

- Scott

I stayed off the boaards last night and did not watch the game as I knew Danny did not fly with the team to California and I knew they were going to lose.

My question is how as a manager does Chris Cummins does not see the positive results that Danny brings when he is on the field? I am not 100% sure what is happening with Danny at the moment, but to have him on the trip something must be up?

May be got cut or maybe they are sitting him cause he questioned the tatics. I been lucky enough to be on the same flight as the squad and i can tell you from Winsper, to Carver and now Cummins they do not rate Danny very high.

Well gents this is what I know as fact, IMO if Danny is cut we must protest and I want a full out riot. We must demand that the FO treat our players with respect especially Danny and Dero as they are they only players IMO that have carte blanche

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Tactics were very poor, OBW was ineffective as a lone frontman with Vitti and DeRo playing in what seemed like wingback roles, Guevara was tracking back too far for us to generate any sort of counterattack like Chivas continually managed against us. Serioux is not a fullback, he and Gomes looked pretty poor on the left side of defence, and I had no idea what Cronin's role was supposed to be. We played well for 15 minutes and then let them have the ball the whole game.

Dichio MUST start. F'in hell. Neither of OBW or Barrett cause any real problems for the defence, don't give them anything to worry about. Dichio does, and he has the passion for TFC. I understand it's good to develop youth, but we want f**king playoffs.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

lol sry the red patch boys usually bring more supporters*
You can't be serious. Dude, this isn't England where the farthest road trips are 4-5 hours away. Our CLOSEST road trip is 5 hours away. You can't ask people to drive 24 hours across a continent. That 50 are going is actually pretty great, there was not one Seattle shirt in Toronto for our first home game.

[tfc007]

Awefull performance by the whole team,but especially Robo sucked badly tonight and I thought Wynn was counting pigeons in the upper deck cause his marking wasnt that good tonight.First goal he lost his man because he was ball watching and the second goal ballwatching again and poor positioning.Last year he was fantastic,this year not sure whats going on with him.

[trane]

Good luck getting an Italian coach, or at least a good one from the top two levels. There is very little chance we would get one to even consider coming here. You can dream, though.

Our best chance in that dept would be getting a Canadian who knows that type of play (John Limniatis knows how to build a team that can defend, and brought the Impact to Italy for the pre-season, they came out with one of the best defences in USL-1).

TFC is horribly inconsistent right now. All MLS squads are inconsistent, right up to the coaches, or they'd be somewhere else, not in MLS. However TFC seems a little worse than most. Chivas was beatable. BTW we beat them with DD on the pitch.

Limniatis would have been my choice. I keep on preaching we need basics.

As for Dichio, early on the season I was raging about why he is not playing, I have given up. But the simple fact that we do better with him on the pitch remains true.

[trane]

By the way I am not as negative on Cummins as most. But yesterday was a game in which he needed to ensure we took points.
OBW needs to play with a bigger striker to create room for him. Gerba and Dichio would fit that bill.

[Batman]

Chivas USA Toronto FC

total shots: 16 ( 4 tied with 3) ` 3 (Dwayne De Rosario 4)
shots on goal:5 Sacha Kljestan 2) 0
fouls: 10 (Marcelo Saragosa 4) 15 (3 tied with 3)
offsides: 6 0
corner kicks: 7 (Carey Talley 6) 7 (Amado Guevara 5)
saves: 0 3 (Stefan Frei 3)


Some incredibly poor stats. Not 1 shot on goal!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

alot of things didnt make sense tonight
-line ups
-subs
-tactics
i dont think we will see any different until we get a real coach. i like cummins and i hope hes sticks around but im becoming increasingly aware that our senior players are lacking the killer instinct these days (im looking at Guevara and Robbo) and we just havent got the tactics/strategy/etc. Ive stuck by our players and never felt that they should be waived or what have you but im becoming increasingly disillusioned with how some of our starting 11/senior players are playing

[Ossington Mental Youth]

also do not know why Cummins played Serioux at LB when we have Fellinga, although it looked to me like we had 3 at the back for the majority of the game

[Ossington Mental Youth]

oh yeah and its pronounced GER (GRRRRR) BA you twat (speaking towards the announcer in LA)

[brad]

Limniatis would have been my choice. I keep on preaching we need basics.

This is pretty much spot on. When Seattle schooled us at the start of the year, it was nothing fancy. Simple passing and movement, the way it's taught to kids.

We aren't doing the basics on the pitch.

[ArmenJBX]

We need to go back to basics. This season is in the air right now, but for preseason, these guys need to travel to Brazil and stay there. Make them practice with the kids in Brazil and relearn how to play the beautiful game. Seriously, if you can get like 10 serious games against teams like Sao Paulo and Corinthians, we'll not only become a better team, we won't look embarrassing either.

Mo, I beg you, I plead with you, get rid of the players we don't need. Cash in on Wynne, Robbo, Brennan, and Barrett. Bring in players from Italy, Brazil, and Spain. No more of this Caribbean, African stuff, what we need is Euro kids. Literally walk up to Manchester United and Barcelona and beg for a youth academy product. Call up Real Madrid and ask them if anything, ANYTHING, is available. Scrap these players together and make um play real football. This isn't a joke anymore. Toronto FC has the fan base and the potential to be the first real football team in this league, one that we can use as an example of quality in MLS. But for this to happen, we need to stop playing like Toronto teams do, and start playing like a club should.

So I beg you, heads of TFC, buy players that work, and get back to the basics. These boy's gotta find soccer again.

[mastermixer]

I think it's too late for this team to "change" anything. They have been practising under this style too long to switch things overnight.

[mark_yyz]

This game was so played so badly by TFC that I am speechless (well I am typing, so maybe not completely speechless).

Coaching and tactics - 0/10
Player effort 3/10
Running around like chickens with heads cut off 9/10

Dichio -- even when he is not on the scoreboard, TFC is much better with him on the pitch.

I consider myself a loyal fan. I love football and know that MLS is not the Premiership. Without strong support TFC and MLS in general will not improve.

But, after a game like last night, I am so discouraged that I want to give up.

We should get rid of everyone and start over.

[wzhxvy]

Interesting about Dichio...I dont think Mo and Cummins are not stupid enough to cut him right now...

[TFC Tifoso]

I stayed off the boaards last night and did not watch the game as I knew Danny did not fly with the team to California and I knew they were going to lose.

My question is how as a manager does Chris Cummins does not see the positive results that Danny brings when he is on the field? I am not 100% sure what is happening with Danny at the moment, but to have him on the trip something must be up?

May be got cut or maybe they are sitting him cause he questioned the tatics. I been lucky enough to be on the same flight as the squad and i can tell you from Winsper, to Carver and now Cummins they do not rate Danny very high.

Well gents this is what I know as fact, IMO if Danny is cut we must protest and I want a full out riot. We must demand that the FO treat our players with respect especially Danny and Dero as they are they only players IMO that have carte blanche


Agree with much of this! Doubting its an injury problem, as he hsan't seen the field much at all this year, but if they are cutting him out of the squad, then that is just simply showing a blatant lack of class.

[pank]

Made the flight out to LA for this game. Was upset with the effort (a couple of semi close chances in the second half notwithstanding). Very frustrating watching that game. Chivas doesn't have more talent, they just played a better system.

A couple of bright spots for me appeared to be Attakora (becoming a norm) and Cronin (decent game). De Ro was trying to compensate for not having his teammates do much and Robbo struggled.

I told my relative (first soccer game) about Dichio being a sort of mythical man god, and he was thoroughly mad when he didn't even see the big man on the bench.

Overall, Home Depot Center was a beautiful stadium and LA is a cool city. I apologize if I couldn't do a great job with chants, I tried a few but it is hard with 3 people.

Hopefully the team can pick it up in Seattle next week.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Chivas USA Toronto FC

total shots: 16 ( 4 tied with 3) ` 3 (Dwayne De Rosario 4)
shots on goal:5 Sacha Kljestan 2) 0
fouls: 10 (Marcelo Saragosa 4) 15 (3 tied with 3)
offsides: 6 0
corner kicks: 7 (Carey Talley 6) 7 (Amado Guevara 5)
saves: 0 3 (Stefan Frei 3)


Some incredibly poor stats. Not 1 shot on goal!

Yep. That's what it felt like. Horrendous ending to a day full of watching better footie.

[prizby]

Yep. That's what it felt like. Horrendous ending to a day full of watching better footie.

you got it right FYRC

[TFC07]

We need to go back to basics. This season is in the air right now, but for preseason, these guys need to travel to Brazil and stay there. Make them practice with the kids in Brazil and relearn how to play the beautiful game. Seriously, if you can get like 10 serious games against teams like Sao Paulo and Corinthians, we'll not only become a better team, we won't look embarrassing either.

Mo, I beg you, I plead with you, get rid of the players we don't need. Cash in on Wynne, Robbo, Brennan, and Barrett. Bring in players from Italy, Brazil, and Spain. No more of this Caribbean, African stuff, what we need is Euro kids. Literally walk up to Manchester United and Barcelona and beg for a youth academy product. Call up Real Madrid and ask them if anything, ANYTHING, is available. Scrap these players together and make um play real football. This isn't a joke anymore. Toronto FC has the fan base and the potential to be the first real football team in this league, one that we can use as an example of quality in MLS. But for this to happen, we need to stop playing like Toronto teams do, and start playing like a club should.

So I beg you, heads of TFC, buy players that work, and get back to the basics. These boy's gotta find soccer again.

This will only happen if you get rid British management (especially Mo).

The only player who had a decent game for TFC was Vitti (I guess Ali G played alright). But sadly, I wouldn't be surprise if he doesn't come back next season.

By the way, who is Brazilian on Chivas USA came from Brazil 2nd division league? I forget his name, but he played well. How come Toronto can't find players like that? I am sure he isn't getting paid much either. It makes you wonder WTF Mo was doing in Brazil. :facepalm:

[ArmenJBX]

Paulo Nagamura: Used to play for us too...

[Fushida]

Paulo Nagamura: Used to play for us too...

Paulo Nagamura: Didn't want to stay here so was let go.

I find it alarming that OBW was started ahead of Gerba and Barrett. Usually not a Cummin's critic but I don't see what OBW did last week that could have POSSIBLY suggested that he could play ahead of these guys, let alone as a lone forward. It was pretty obvious that the second Gerba game on we were at least more coherent and had more chances up front. We gotta ditch that long ball shit the second Gerba and Dichio comes on though. The game we played in the first half was quite good, but the second Gerba was on... it was bam, long ball.

As for OBW, I don't care if he's a rookie or he's coming off injury or all that cute shit. The guy is slow, reacts slow, lazy, second to every ball. See how much he makes Vitti and Cronin and Dero run last night and in the DC game? The guy just doesn't move. Frankly I think Cuntingham looked like he tried more than OBW. Sure he scored a goal against DC, but he was a non-factor before and after that goal. Apparently that makes you good enough to start for us. :facepalm: I'm sure all this hype was not for naught and if he improves as the season progresses, obviously should be award some time. But after these two games, its pretty obvious that he doesn't deserve anymore playing time until he shapes up.

[TFC07]

Paulo Nagamura: Used to play for us too...

He had good game too, but the player I was referring to is Maicon Santos. He is Brazilian who is on a loan deal from his Brazilian club.

[Leprechaun]

Robinson has to go....it is just getting ridiculous now and very hard to watch him play. I thought he was supposed to bring solid distribution to the team?

And I'm still trying to figure out why Guevara continues to take the corner kicks. Seriously just piss poor and is never a threat. I find myself getting less and less excited when we get a corner.

[jloome]

He had good game too, but the player I was referring to is Maicon Santos. He is Brazilian who is on a loan deal from his Brazilian club.

Nagamura didn't come on until the 76 min. He's been out injured for awhile.

And Maicon Santos isn't an unknown quantity, he was once a top prospect in the Brazilian first division. He took a stupid lucrative contract in the UAE or Saudi ( I forget which) and kind of disappeared off the radar, but he's a quality player. They'll be paying him well.

We sucked yesterday for several reasons, but it always comes back to the same point. The players in our first team aren't smart enough for this levle of competition. Technically astute, yes, smart in movement and play, no.

THat's not going to change. Play the kids, or we'll lose more of our remaining games than we win and we won't make the playoffs.

As for Danny, he's a statue this year. He has no mobility. But he should be available late in the game because he creates space uptop.

DeRo, as mentioned after our last embarassment , should only play striker. He scores every game that he plays up top, hogs the ball and ruins our offensive flow in every game when he plays out wide.

We should've simply stuck with what worked last week, a nice conservative system that relies on occasional bold play. We needed points today, not an exercise in players behaving like individuals and utterly forgetting the concept of teammwork.

Fucking embarassing. I'm sure the watchword for a lot of this stuff within MLSE's offices is to look at the "big picture" and that "Every team loses occasionally" and "we're still on track to potentially make the playoffs."

Delusional. This team is going nowhere with a starting lineup that relies on our senior guys.

[Pachuco]

also do not know why Cummins played Serioux at LB when we have Fellinga, although it looked to me like we had 3 at the back for the majority of the game

This is no offense to you Ossington, or Shakes or anyone else who has suggested Felinga should have started over Serioux. Have you seen Felinga play? Have you seen how he gells with the team? If you haven't, then I have no idea how you or anyone else can make a statement like that. Just because the guy is new doesn't mean he's better. That shit happens way too much around here where the new guy gets the royal treatment without having to prove himself.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

[quote=Shakes McQueen;682136]Someone mentioned that Dichio wasn't on the bench tonight. I'm really starting to wonder if something is up with him.

- Scott[/quote

bet hes been told hes of no use coming into this playoff drive..OK the man is a fan favorite, but he slow, and unless we start getting more corners to take advantage of his height..hes no use to the team..Dichio had his day
in Toronto, first ever TFC goal, legend status..but time to get the younger players in to see what they can show for next season.

[Derko]

This is no offense to you Ossington, or Shakes or anyone else who has suggested Felinga should have started over Serioux. Have you seen Felinga play? Have you seen how he gells with the team? If you haven't, then I have no idea how you or anyone else can make a statement like that. Just because the guy is new doesn't mean he's better. That shit happens way too much around here where the new guy gets the royal treatment without having to prove himself.

I agree with Felinga not starting, he has to win a spot on the first team, but all of our defenders were being turned and out hustled all night long, I am a big fan of Nana and thought he played a little below his norm, Serioux played the most horrible game I have seen him play all year and Gomez played like a he was out of his element.Wynne was invisible all night.
No comment on the poor attack, if you can call that shambles an attack. Our defenders lost the game for us, If the defence would have played up to any standard, at least a single point would have come from the game.

I am as red as the rest, but I am not proud of the performance on the field, I am embarrassed of that shite!!

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

This will only happen if you get rid British management (especially Mo).

The only player who had a decent game for TFC was Vitti (I guess Ali G played alright). But sadly, I wouldn't be surprise if he doesn't come back next season.

By the way, who is Brazilian on Chivas USA came from Brazil 2nd division league? I forget his name, but he played well. How come Toronto can't find players like that? I am sure he isn't getting paid much either. It makes you wonder WTF Mo was doing in Brazil. :facepalm:


why cant TFC find players like that? maybe they can...but the players highly likely dont want to play in canada and toronto...toronto is not the city most top players want to come to, ask the Leafs, jays, raptors, they cant get big names to come here and TFC is now finding that out as well,we have to bring up our own talent through the academy but that will take time.

[jazzy]

I stayed off the boaards last night and did not watch the game as I knew Danny did not fly with the team to California and I knew they were going to lose.

My question is how as a manager does Chris Cummins does not see the positive results that Danny brings when he is on the field? I am not 100% sure what is happening with Danny at the moment, but to have him on the trip something must be up?

May be got cut or maybe they are sitting him cause he questioned the tatics. I been lucky enough to be on the same flight as the squad and i can tell you from Winsper, to Carver and now Cummins they do not rate Danny very high.

Well gents this is what I know as fact, IMO if Danny is cut we must protest and I want a full out riot. We must demand that the FO treat our players with respect especially Danny and Dero as they are they only players IMO that have carte blanche

As I've said before, if and when Danny retires he must have a position within the team, his preference of course, love to see him head the Academy, directing the youth. What else is our history? We have none! Except having no backbone when our backs are against the wall. It all starts with Mr Dichio.

[forza_tfc]

Not sure if anyone caught this, but when Guevara was taken off, he dodged pats from Cummins and Daso and looked pissed. He actually looked like a little child.

[barca99]

As for Danny, he's a statue this year. He has no mobility. But he should be available late in the game because he creates space uptop.

I agree with this completely! Each player has something they can bring to the table, for Danny its size and his ability in the air, which NO ONE else on this team has, especially the strikers. Therefore, when we're late in a game like yesterday, down goals, and the other team packs the box so that we can't get in except for in the air, he should be on the pitch. He's proven this year that he can be used effectively as a late game sub (around 60 to 65 minutes), but he isn't being used that way. He plays like a giant for goodness sakes, use him.

[ensco]

As for Danny, he's a statue this year. He has no mobility. But he should be available late in the game because he creates space uptop.




Where did this come from? He still has a nice touch, too, which he has shown repeatedly....the goal here vs KC, the dummy on DeRo's goal vs Houston, the LA goal where he reacted to the ball with a nifty flick header, there are more, I just can't remember them all.

All that "Danny the statue" has done is create scoring chances, and goals, the second, and I mean the second, he steps on the pitch.

Other than that, he's been invisible. Because he doesn't play.

Remember that DD kicked the flag in real anger after scoring against LA? I thought at the time, and think, that he's sick of sitting while guys who aren't producing get the minutes. He's just too much of a gentleman to say anything.

btw I doubt he missed the game for anything other than a good reason

[barca99]

Not sure if anyone caught this, but when Guevara was taken off, he dodged pats from Cummins and Daso and looked pissed. He actually looked like a little child.

Barrett's done that before too, but then again, I've seen that so much in professional soccer that it doesn't really surprise me anymore. As long as all is sorted out after the game, no worries.

[TFC07]

Nagamura didn't come on until the 76 min. He's been out injured for awhile.


But yet, he did more on field than most of TFC players did in 90 mins.


why cant TFC find players like that? maybe they can...but the players highly likely dont want to play in canada and toronto...toronto is not the city most top players want to come to, ask the Leafs, jays, raptors, they cant get big names to come here and TFC is now finding that out as well,we have to bring up our own talent through the academy but that will take time.

Your example only applies to American players. Top soccer players obviously don't want to play in MLS, but want to play in Europe instead. But I highly doubt average soccer player from South America or Africa wouldn't mind playing in Toronto as long they get paid. I do agree with you that TFC academy is going to play a big role for TFC in the future.

I don't watch hockey or baseball, but I do watch basketball and Toronto Raptors didn't have any trouble signing top players in FA market this season. :)

[TFC USA]

Easy question here.

If we lose to Seattle next weekend is the season over?

[TFC07]

Easy question here.

If we lose to Seattle next weekend is the season over?

No, we still got games against weak teams like San Jose and New York. I think we'll win our 3 home games and win on a road against New York. That is 12 points, which I think it is enough to get us into the playoffs.

[ensco]

Easy question here.

If we lose to Seattle next weekend is the season over?

No. But it becomes a bit desperate.

We finish with 3 winnable games (SJ and RSL here, NY away). We could still get away points at LA and Colorado, even if we lay an egg at Seattle.

But we sure look like a team that everyone would want to play against in the playoffs.....

[TFC USA]

We've still got Colorado and LA on the road and I don't think we can beat them.

Based on run-of-form I can't see the positives in this team anymore. I've given them chance after chance and they fall flat on their face.

[wzhxvy]

Guevara can be pissed for being taken off all he wants, but he was not effective yesterday. When he plays for Honduras he goes at it 200% and gives it his all...when he plays for us he is great some games, invisible in others.

If I was TFC, I would release him if Honduras qualifies to WC next year...let him go focus on what he really cares about.

[kaos197O]

We've still got Colorado and LA on the road and I don't think we can beat them.

Based on run-of-form I can't see the positives in this team anymore. I've given them chance after chance and they fall flat on their face.
I can't blame the team for their run of form when we play a new squad, formation and strategy every time we hit the pitch week in and week out. Of course there's no cohesion......no one actually plays together consistantly!

Poor Coaching!

That's it!

[AL-MO]

Spoke with someone in the grocery store this afternoon and his comment summed up things quite well.

"When they are good, the're good, and when they are bad its shocking"

[Whoop]

Shocking? Not really. LOL

I think it's shocking when they are very good.

[Kaz]

When this team plays possession football, and works as a team. they are remarkable.. the moment we see long ball you know the game is lost. It's sad. Why do we keep playing with one striker?

And can someone give me a Win Lose with Wynne on the field? I'm kinda curious.

[AL-MO]

. No more of this Caribbean, African stuff, what we need is Euro kids. Literally walk up to Manchester United and Barcelona and beg for a youth academy product. Call up Real Madrid and ask them if anything, ANYTHING, is available. Scrap these players together and make um play real football.

What kind of fantasy world do you live in?

[mastermixer]

I feel like an abused husband right now, always getting beaten emotionaly, forget about it during the good times but then comes back out of nowhere and knocks you down again. The MLSE curse has infected TFC... get used to it.

[AL-MO]

Shocking? Not really. LOL

I think it's shocking when they are very good.

I don't know about you, but from 50 mins on was the longest, possibly the most depressing 40 minutes of my life. Holy fuck it was bad.

[AL-MO]

We should get rid of everyone and start over.

Now there is a plan I can get behind! :lol:

[Whoop]

It was bad... real bad.

But yet, at the same, for some reason, I wasn't surprised.

When they score 2 or more I'm surprised.

[AL-MO]

It was bad... real bad.

But yet, at the same, for some reason, I wasn't surprised.

When they score 2 or more I'm surprised.

Funny thing is, if Serioux manages to get something on that shot and not swing and miss like I will at my baseball game this afternoon, we would have still been 'in' that game. That makes it even more disappointing. The fact that we were playing like garbage yet still had some chances.

[WHITEY]

I am still tasting the puke that I upchucked in my mouth last night

[AL-MO]

Easy question here.

If we lose to Seattle next weekend is the season over?

The obvious answer to that question is no.

[Beach_Red]

Fucking embarassing. I'm sure the watchword for a lot of this stuff within MLSE's offices is to look at the "big picture" and that "Every team loses occasionally" and "we're still on track to potentially make the playoffs."

Delusional. This team is going nowhere with a starting lineup that relies on our senior guys.


You may be rght about MLSE looking at the "big picture," but there's the possibility that what they're saying about it is that these "senior" guys were the best they could convince to come to an expansion team - Robbo, Brennan, even Guevara fits - and that the next team emerging is much better.

I've seen many expansion teams fill the roster with "place holder" type players.

Of course, some never make the transition contender. What we're seeing now is if this team can make that transition.

[Ageroo]

The obvious answer to that question is no.

In agreement here.......we still have 3 matches that are winnable at home. Plus we have New York as well. I am not counting us out....but they need to look like a more cohesive unit...that is for sure

[ExiledRed]

Cummins is too inexperienced, and he's out of his depth.

What the hell does he think Dichio is getting close to $100,000 a season for? If he has no intention of playing him, he should have the nuts to replace him with a player he does intend to use.

Chris puts his faith in the youth, that's his background, and I respect that, but to see that policy fucking us up the arse every week, while experienced players who can obviously make a difference get sidelined, is pissing me off.

[WHITEY]

Cummins is too inexperienced, and he's out of his depth.

What the hell does he think Dichio is getting close to $100,000 a season for? If he has no intention of playing him, he should have the nuts to replace him with a player he does intend to use.

Chris puts his faith in the youth, that's his background, and I respect that, but to see that policy fucking us up the arse every week, while experienced players who can obviously make a difference get sidelined, is pissing me off.

Feel the same way. I'm all for brining up the young guys but when you're fighting to earn a playoff spot all the experience should be on the pitch fighting for that playoff spot not sitting on the bench or in Danny D's case back home in Toronto.

[ExiledRed]

Chris Cummins:

"We had a good result last week and then all of the sudden players are starting to believe their own hype," Cummins said. "That don't count for nothing at the end of the day. Until we get in the playoffs, we haven't done anything and I keep saying that."

Maybe Chris should stop believing his own hype and appreciate he's only 37, has no real playing background and no relevant coaching experience.

Dichio is more qualified to coach, and that's a fact.

[Ageroo]

Cummins is too inexperienced, and he's out of his depth.

What the hell does he think Dichio is getting close to $100,000 a season for? If he has no intention of playing him, he should have the nuts to replace him with a player he does intend to use.

Chris puts his faith in the youth, that's his background, and I respect that, but to see that policy fucking us up the arse every week, while experienced players who can obviously make a difference get sidelined, is pissing me off.

I like the fact that CC is giving the youth a shot, but I agree....we have veteran players that I think can make a difference. As much as OBW is the future Gerba needs to start. Other than him and DeRo last night...they seemed to be the only ones willing to take cracks on net from anywhere. They weren't getting service so create your own opportunities. I have been preaching it for a while. Gerba can score. Look at some of the shots he let off yesterday in limited minutes. Get him the ball and watch him score.

[H Bomb]

Really frustrating game no doubt. Losing away is no real surprise but it was one of our many "off days". Robbo has been poor since summer hit (the JDG rumours maybe? I've no idea) and I'm a Robbo supporter. We dont need to blow anything up because if we win next week then no big deal. I disagree with people wanting the Santos (sp?) guy from Brazil, I thought he was probably Chivas worst player yesterday. But we were poor. New game next week, dont let it get ya down, castles burning, etc.

[ensco]

Maybe Chris should stop believing his own hype and appreciate he's only 37, has no real playing background and no relevant coaching experience.

Dichio is more qualified to coach, and that's a fact.

Can't blame Cummins for his inexperience.

Want to get at why a ridiculously inexperienced man is at the helm? Get answers to these two questions:

1. Why did Gansler leave?
2. How much due diligence was done on Carver before he was hired?

[H Bomb]

I've never really bought into playing experience for the coachs. A good coach is a personality type, not an ex player by definition. (example, Wenger with little playing experience, top notch manager) But Cummins is inexperienced no doubt...that isn't overly surprising in this league...the type of league that will undoubtedly have many inexperienced coaches in the future. I'm not thrilled today of course, and am not 100% on what the solution should be. We aren't good or bad enough to justify any major changes unless we (i) have more info about the back workings of the club and how effectively the players are fitting into the system they are trying to play

[ExiledRed]

Can't blame Cummins for his inexperience.

Want to get at why a ridiculously inexperienced man is at the helm? Get answers to these two questions:

1. Why did Gansler leave?
2. How much due diligence was done on Carver before he was hired?

If Cummins is going to bypass his inexperience and strategic ineptitude, by blaming the players for 'believing their own hype' then yes, I'm going to call him out.

I'm not sure why Gansler left, but as far as Carver goes, we won't be truly rid of that guy and his crap policies until his prodigy leaves as well.

[ExiledRed]

I've never really bought into playing experience for the coachs. A good coach is a personality type, not an ex player by definition. (example, Wenger with little playing experience, top notch manager) But Cummins is inexperienced no doubt...that isn't overly surprising in this league...the type of league that will undoubtedly have many inexperienced coaches in the future. I'm not thrilled today of course, and am not 100% on what the solution should be. We aren't good or bad enough to justify any major changes unless we (i) have more info about the back workings of the club and how effectively the players are fitting into the system they are trying to play

What I meant was, that if you're going to coach a team at this level and you're only 37 with no head coach experience, then you damn well better be an ex player.

[Super]

Considering the importance of this game I'm truly SHOCKED at the abysmal display put on by players - and the tactical decisions made by Cummins. This is a complete write-off. We better improve by miles before next Saturday, or we'll see the end to our season in Seattle. I'm not optimistic.

[H Bomb]

I can appreciate that. For me if you're good enough at 37 then you should do it regardless of your past...and while Cummins may come into his own, its doesnt seem at this point that he's good enough...and that's not good enough

[Beach_Red]

Can't blame Cummins for his inexperience.

Want to get at why a ridiculously inexperienced man is at the helm? Get answers to these two questions:

1. Why did Gansler leave?
2. How much due diligence was done on Carver before he was hired?


The answers will only be speculation unless you've got some evidence to share.

1) He really didn't want to live in Toronto - or Canada for that matter. He came on a one year contract, didn't he? It was really just as a favour. What's he doing now?

2) How much due dilligence can you do when no one involved actually knows how they'll fare in a different country, what the reactions of their families will be and so on?

If this was as easy as pointing to one guy and replacing him with "anyone" then we'd all be running companies as big as MLSE. But there might actually be more going on than we know.

[Beach_Red]

Considering the importance of this game I'm truly SHOCKED at the abysmal display put on by players - and the tactical decisions made by Cummins. This is a complete write-off. We better improve by miles before next Saturday, or we'll see the end to our season in Seattle. I'm not optimistic.


That would really be tragic, but it would also simply be the playing out of the way the season started at home. Very disappointng.

[Section 117]

I like the fact that CC is giving the youth a shot, but I agree....we have veteran players that I think can make a difference. As much as OBW is the future Gerba needs to start. Other than him and DeRo last night...they seemed to be the only ones willing to take cracks on net from anywhere. They weren't getting service so create your own opportunities. I have been preaching it for a while. Gerba can score. Look at some of the shots he let off yesterday in limited minutes. Get him the ball and watch him score.

I don't know any league when you are a fighting for a postion in the league where you turn around ang give the youth a chance. This is not the time nor the place to to do this. If the season is lost and we are done yes give the kids a shot.

OBW has no right to start at this point in the season too much is on the line. Cummins is useless I am coniviced no more than ever that he is just a yes man for MO and Mo is telling him who to play. IMO if Gerba can't start then it has to be Danny. Even for the first 60 minutes of the bloody game.

Bottom line without experience and playing our best eleven which Cummins has never done the season is lost and as much as I want the playoffs we don;t deserve it at this point.

[H Bomb]

Considering the importance of this game I'm truly SHOCKED at the abysmal display put on by players - and the tactical decisions made by Cummins. This is a complete write-off. We better improve by miles before next Saturday, or we'll see the end to our season in Seattle. I'm not optimistic.


I'm not though dude. This is MLS, you play a series of games that have very little cadence, where momentum plays very little part, and at the end of the season you add up the points and 8 teams keep playing. This league is what is is, and is what it wants to be. Consistency seems to come to about 1 team per year. Next week is just as likely to be a win as a loss in my books, so i'm hoping for a win, and finding things like consistency or standards in my European league. I'll be with MLS until I or TFC due, but that doesnt mean its good in any way

[H Bomb]

I don't know any league when you are a fighting for a postion in the league where you turn around ang give the youth a chance. This is not the time nor the place to to do this. If the season is lost and we are done yes give the kids a shot.

OBW has no right to start at this point in the season too much is on the line. Cummins is useless I am coniviced no more than ever that he is just a yes man for MO and Mo is telling him who to play. IMO if Gerba can't start then it has to be Danny. Even for the first 60 minutes of the bloody game.

Bottom line without experience and playing our best eleven which Cummins has never done the season is lost and as much as I want the playoffs we don;t deserve it at this point.
No man, for me the youth is playing because they have been the best players, who've made the fewest mistakes. I think Cummins is playing them out of safety more than out of "going for it" The only people he can trust right now are under 25. is it that surprising coming from a Manager with only Youth experience....not to me it isnt

[Beach_Red]

I'm not though dude. This is MLS, you play a series of games that have very little cadence, where momentum plays very little part, and at the end of the season you add up the points and 8 teams keep playing. This league is what is is, and is what it wants to be. Consistency seems to come to about 1 team per year. Next week is just as likely to be a win as a loss in my books, so i'm hoping for a win, and finding things like consistency or standards in my European league. I'll be with MLS until I or TFC due, but that doesnt mean its good in any way


That's not what happened last year with NYRB, is it? Didn't they put it together in the last third of the season, got momentum going for them and ride it all the way to the Cup final?

[ensco]

The answers will only be speculation unless you've got some evidence to share.

1) He really didn't want to live in Toronto - or Canada for that matter. He came on a one year contract, didn't he? It was really just as a favour. What's he doing now?

2) How much due dilligence can you do when no one involved actually knows how they'll fare in a different country, what the reactions of their families will be and so on?

If this was as easy as pointing to one guy and replacing him with "anyone" then we'd all be running companies as big as MLSE. But there might actually be more going on than we know.

1) Gansler was publicly unhappy with Mo.
2) Not enough, that's for sure.

That's why we have a coach whose only head coaching experience was with an academy team.

Mo owns this, all of it.

[Section 117]

Interesting about Dichio...I dont think Mo and Cummins are not stupid enough to cut him right now...

You would be suprised how stupid they really are. I had a long discussion with Cummins, Whinsper and Carver last year coming back from Chicago and they told me that Danny is not the footballer they need on the team as he doesn't fit their tactics???? What fucking tactics for three years we have had zero system. I am convinced they know how to talk a good game but they are usless twats all of them. They are the JFJ for the Leafs probably good in the board room but besides that completely fucking usless.

I swear if Danny gets cut which to me is the only reason why he didn't go with the team to LA I want a full scale riot on Sept 12 at home. We have to organize banners flags chants and demonstrate that we aren't stupid and he deserves the respect as he is a legend and will always be.

[Beach_Red]

1) Gansler was publicly unhappy with Mo.
2) Not enough, that's for sure.

That's why we have a coach whose only head coaching experience was with an academy team.

Mo owns this, all of it.


He was publicly unhappy with a lot of things if you count what he said in bars as "publicly."

And where is he coaching now?

I'm not really defendng Mo, beyond I wish this team was in the kind of league where the manager had enough options to make really good and really bad decisions, but we know the choices available to MLS teams are so few that the manager isn't really that important.

[wzhxvy]

You would be suprised how stupid they really are. I had a long discussion with Cummins, Whinsper and Carver last year coming back from Chicago and they told me that Danny is not the footballer they need on the team as he doesn't fit their tactics???? What fucking tactics for three years we have had zero system. I am convinced they know how to talk a good game but they are usless twats all of them. They are the JFJ for the Leafs probably good in the board room but besides that completely fucking usless.

I swear if Danny gets cut which to me is the only reason why he didn't go with the team to LA I want a full scale riot on Sept 12 at home. We have to organize banners flags chants and demonstrate that we aren't stupid and he deserves the respect as he is a legend and will always be.

I am with you. If they release him, I would be up for something like that.... if they give the blond donkey an extension mid season and release DD...yes I would lose it.

And what is Winsper commenting about ? He is a freaking overpaid gym teacher...there are thousands of where he came from, his head is getting too big.

[Super]

I'm not though dude. This is MLS, you play a series of games that have very little cadence, where momentum plays very little part, and at the end of the season you add up the points and 8 teams keep playing. This league is what is is, and is what it wants to be. Consistency seems to come to about 1 team per year. Next week is just as likely to be a win as a loss in my books, so i'm hoping for a win, and finding things like consistency or standards in my European league. I'll be with MLS until I or TFC due, but that doesnt mean its good in any way

A different coach would have put on different tactics, and may also have been able to better motivate the players for the task ahead. Clearly there was a severe lack of motivation from our team last night. We're in the fight for the play-offs, and we have zero chances in the entire game? No doubt we could have fought harder and done a better job in the game. I agree that the parity of the MLS is designed to create a league with pretty much random results, but this was just terrible in my book.

[H Bomb]

^^Agreed, a terrible game and we should expect better. But so should Seattle, Chivas, etc. We arent out of it because so many that we are fighting against are in the same boat. But yes, a terrible performance/game

[ensco]

He was publicly unhappy with a lot of things if you count what he said in bars as "publicly."

And where is he coaching now?

I'm not really defendng Mo, beyond I wish this team was in the kind of league where the manager had enough options to make really good and really bad decisions, but we know the choices available to MLS teams are so few that the manager isn't really that important.


Not sure the fact that he's on the sidelines means anything about whether we'd be better off with or without him. That bit about the bars is pretty funny. Is it true?

Re your second point, we just totally disagree. I think on-field managers/coaches make a huge impact in any league. There's plenty of MLS evidence to support this (Kinnear, Soehn, Nicol, Arena, Schmid all have playoff seasons 80% of the time)

[Beach_Red]

^^Agreed, a terrible game and we should expect better. But so should Seattle, Chivas, etc. We arent out of it because so many that we are fighting against are in the same boat. But yes, a terrible performance/game


Sure, we're not out of it, but this team is making a habit of coming out flat in big games.

[Section 117]

That's not what happened last year with NYRB, is it? Didn't they put it together in the last third of the season, got momentum going for them and ride it all the way to the Cup final?

Ok so you are comparing our inxeperienced yes man (cummins) to Osario who with the execption of this year is an above averge coach . We would be kidding ourselves if we think they can turn this thing around and make a run to the finals. We don't show up for most road games how are we going to make the playoffs

[Beach_Red]

Not sure the fact that he's on the sidelines means anything about whether we'd be better off with or without him. That bit about the bars is pretty funny. Is it true?

Re your second point, we just totally disagree. I think on-field managers/coaches make a huge impact in any league. There's plenty of MLS evidence to support this (Kinnear, Soehn, Nicol, Arena, Schmid all have playoff seasons 80% of the time)


Each case is unique, of course, but Robert wanted to play and went to Greece, Tebily didn't want to play (or was more seriously injured) and doesn't.

Either no one else feels it's worth offering the guy a job or he doesn't want a job. Would TFC be better off with him. Maybe. Is the guy he's known for years and worked together with in KC for years the reason he's not here? Maybe, maybe not. Let's just say there were a lot of things about Toronto some people didn't like and some Canadian content rules applied to the team that some guys felt were too much to deal with. And some people were quite public about it, yeah.

[Beach_Red]

Ok so you are comparing our inxeperienced yes man (cummins) to Osario who with the execption of this year is an above averge coach . We would be kidding ourselves if we think they can turn this thing around and make a run to the finals. We don't show up for most road games how are we going to make the playoffs

No, that wasn't a comment about coaches at all, it was a reply to H Bomb's comment about the nature of the league.

In fact, if TFC were to hire Osario now I'd consider that a good move. He's proven he can take an underperforming team like NYRB was at pretty much this time last year and get them all the way to the final.

[H Bomb]

We are. There is a major identity crisis in this team. It seems that certain players only pass to certain other types of players as well. We arent a unit and I'm worried. But if it made me too sad then I'd be sad all the time

[RedRum]

You would be suprised how stupid they really are. I had a long discussion with Cummins, Whinsper and Carver last year coming back from Chicago and they told me that Danny is not the footballer they need on the team as he doesn't fit their tactics???? What fucking tactics for three years we have had zero system. I am convinced they know how to talk a good game but they are usless twats all of them. They are the JFJ for the Leafs probably good in the board room but besides that completely fucking usless.

I swear if Danny gets cut which to me is the only reason why he didn't go with the team to LA I want a full scale riot on Sept 12 at home. We have to organize banners flags chants and demonstrate that we aren't stupid and he deserves the respect as he is a legend and will always be.

If this is the case I'm down 100%. I also think we need to go a step further and have our voices heard directly by MLSE / OTTP. TFC management / FO doesn't give a shit what we like and dont like. Supporters to them are a marketing tool to be kept on a short leash, nothing more.

[Whoop]

I still lay the blame of all this at Mo's feet.

I was laughing at the beginning of the game when they showed a shot of Mo behind the Chivas' goal.

"It's Polkaroo!"

[rocker]

Ok so you are comparing our inxeperienced yes man (cummins) to Osario who with the execption of this year is an above averge coach .

Osorio is not a good coach. He has many more losses than wins in this league. Mo Johnston earned almost the same % of pts in his coaching career as Osorio. That's not exactly good.

Osorio had DPs in Angel and Blanco and barely made the playoffs in his first 2 years as head coach. Actually, in 2008 he wouldn't have made the playoffs if DC United didn't hit the post a couple times in their final game of the season.

I'd be pissed off if Osorio ever coaches TFC. The guy has proven nothing in his coaching career except mediocrity (a fluke playoff run doesn't mean anything).

Some comments on Osorio from NYRB fans:

Nor should he. The guy is a fraud and he got exposed this year.

His resume has more holes than his defense does but noone in the media ever thought to question it. They just bought the whole "he coached at Man City..." gambit hook, line and sinker and annointed him a genius. There are far too many qualified coaches in American soccer for a team to have to suffer through a clown like Osorio.

Look at the bright side, I think someday this will be a good history lesson for the league though about how not to manage a team.

Anyways this was the right move, he needed a new direction same as the team and while he wasn't a good coach with the Red Bulls he showed class in his resignation and I wish him and his family the best.

I'm guessing that something in the 5000 pages of notes Osorio took during games this season finally revealed that he needed to resign. Otherwise, what changed?

He sucked as a coach, records don't lie. And he brought in garbage that couldn't hack playing in supposedly crappy MLS and will all thankfully be gone next season.

[Brooker]

I still lay the blame of all this at Mo's feet.

I was laughing at the beginning of the game when they showed a shot of Mo behind the Chivas' goal.

"It's Polkaroo!"

LOL!!! I didn't see it..... missed him again.

:D

[TFC USA]

Dichio said he would retire after this season I don't see why they would cut him.

This is all suspicious.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

You would be suprised how stupid they really are. I had a long discussion with Cummins, Whinsper and Carver last year coming back from Chicago and they told me that Danny is not the footballer they need on the team as he doesn't fit their tactics???? What fucking tactics for three years we have had zero system. I am convinced they know how to talk a good game but they are usless twats all of them. They are the JFJ for the Leafs probably good in the board room but besides that completely fucking usless.

I swear if Danny gets cut which to me is the only reason why he didn't go with the team to LA I want a full scale riot on Sept 12 at home. We have to organize banners flags chants and demonstrate that we aren't stupid and he deserves the respect as he is a legend and will always be.


Danny was gone after this season anyways so better to cut him lose now,if thats what happened, and move on to the younger players. how
does a player on a 3rd year team become a legend....Pele is a legend,
Bobby Moore is a Legend Stanley Matthews a Legend, you putting dichio in that class? Dichio was an important part of the birth of TFC, and a fan favorite but a legend come on thatss a bit much. Dichios on positive helping on the team was his height, hes slow going for the ball, he gets
run past more often the naught...let him retire now for his sake.

[Section 117]

Danny was gone after this season anyways so better to cut him lose now,if thats what happened, and move on to the younger players. how
does a player on a 3rd year team become a legend....Pele is a legend,
Bobby Moore is a Legend Stanley Matthews a Legend, you putting dichio in that class? Dichio was an important part of the birth of TFC, and a fan favorite but a legend come on thatss a bit much. Dichios on positive helping on the team was his height, hes slow going for the ball, he gets
run past more often the naught...let him retire now for his sake.


You my friend are quite lost, Danny by far has the most soccer IQ on this team. If you can't see there is nothing I or anyone else can say to you. Look at the PRI games he had by the far the best chances and he only played 20 - 25 minutes. So yeah he maybe slow but he knows where to be. So if you want the youth to play then kiss the playoffs goodbye as they will not carry us. But if Danny would play our chnaces are far greater.

You completely misunderstood the legend comment. Your examples are of some of the greatest players ever to play so no Danny is not like that , but for TFC he is a legend and will always be. He and Dero are the two most talented players ever to wear a TFC jersey they will both will always be legends for what they have done for the club on and off the field.

[TFC OZZ]

You my friend are quite lost, Danny by far has the most soccer IQ on this team. If you can't see there is nothing I or anyone else can say to you. Look at the PRI games he had by the far the best chances and he only played 20 - 25 minutes. So yeah he maybe slow but he knows where to be. So if you want the youth to play then kiss the playoffs goodbye as they will not carry us. But if Danny would play our chnaces are far greater.

You completely misunderstood the legend comment. Your examples are of some of the greatest players ever to play so no Danny is not like that , but for TFC he is a legend and will always be. He and Dero are the two most talented players ever to wear a TFC jersey they will both will always be legends for what they have done for the club on and off the field.

I'm gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that one. I would say all of these players have a better soccer IQ than Dichio:

De Rosario
Guevera
Garcia
Frei
Robbo (although as a of late he's questionable)

Look, Dichio's a talented footballer and he's done so much for this club, but the fact of the matter is he's had his day. Yea, he can come on and do some good up front, but personally, I'd want to develop our younger guys and get thim into their prime.

If they released Dichio at the end of the season I wouldn't be surprised or upset one bit; because I hope he continues his career with this club's coaching system and continues to share his experience with the entire squad. He's not that good anymore, and beyond over-rated by some of you.

[Roogsy]

^ You are quite obviously not talking about skill and talking about ability and youth.

I would wager that most readers would agree that Danny's soccer "IQ" is higher than any of those on your list.

[dano]

oh yeah and its pronounced GER (GRRRRR) BA you twat (speaking towards the announcer in LA)

He's a francophone, not a pirate: soft g, uvular r

[TFC OZZ]

^ You are quite obviously not talking about skill and talking about ability and youth.

I would wager that most readers would agree that Danny's soccer "IQ" is higher than any of those on your list.

Well, let me clarify to you that soccer IQ to me would mean someone's ability to read the game, their team-mates and opponents quickly, in order to anticipate what's going to happen before it does; in order for them to position themselves into the correct defensive position, or offensive position to receive the ball, or play balls into available space, the goal, or into the path of a team-mate.

Dichio is 34.

My list included:
De Rosario AGED 31
Guevera AGED 33
Garcia AGED 30
Frei AGED 23
Robbo AGED 32 (although as a of late he's questionable)

So 5 of the players i mentioned 4 were were over 30, and the lone young player on the list was our goaltender, because I feel he is a great distributor of the ball; and Soccer IQ is incredibly important for a goalie.

Personally, I think De Rosario and Guevera are easily the two smartest players on the team, with the other three similar to one another in terms of socer IQ; with Dichio behind them all.

My list does not revolve around skill, because I think Dichio is more skillfull than Robinson and Garcia.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

You my friend are quite lost, Danny by far has the most soccer IQ on this team. If you can't see there is nothing I or anyone else can say to you. Look at the PRI games he had by the far the best chances and he only played 20 - 25 minutes. So yeah he maybe slow but he knows where to be. So if you want the youth to play then kiss the playoffs goodbye as they will not carry us. But if Danny would play our chnaces are far greater.

You completely misunderstood the legend comment. Your examples are of some of the greatest players ever to play so no Danny is not like that , but for TFC he is a legend and will always be. He and Dero are the two most talented players ever to wear a TFC jersey they will both will always be legends for what they have done for the club on and off the field.


i never said he wasnt good just that his time is up, it happens to all players..couls he play another season or two if we had grass..maybe.
the playoffs i didnt expect this year anyways, for a young club..so give the younger guys a run out and show what they got..with the majority of our games on the road and last nights deadful effort in Los Angeles, its time to look forward to 2010 season and some more great drafting by MO.
Next season i will start demanding playoff action...will it happen?? I hope
Dichio stays on with the youth team coaching or if MLS sees the error of its ways and get the reserve league going make Dichio manager of that team if he has any interest in doing that.

[twistedchinaman]

Approximately 50

I'd say about 70, TBH...plus any large cache of BC fans.

Again, losing in Seattle = Pissed off Twisted. SO DON'T DO IT!!!

[Juanito]

I'm with Oldtimer .... we need a tactician that is defence first, especially on the road. We need to play sound, defensive football and work from there. We aren't Barcelona. We can't dance around and play a finesse, passing game.

It seems to me that the team gives up way too easily. That is a coaching problem, and maybe part of the problem is that we have a coach who doesn't know whether or not management are behind him. We need to improve from the back out. Period. Conceding goals kill us. We don' have the squad to mount infamous comebacks!!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This is no offense to you Ossington, or Shakes or anyone else who has suggested Felinga should have started over Serioux. Have you seen Felinga play? Have you seen how he gells with the team? If you haven't, then I have no idea how you or anyone else can make a statement like that. Just because the guy is new doesn't mean he's better. That shit happens way too much around here where the new guy gets the royal treatment without having to prove himself.

no offense taken im behind him starting in that position, not necessarily starting over serioux, especially as how we've seen serioux play in that position previously, and how that position is fellingas natural position

[Ossington Mental Youth]

He's a francophone, not a pirate: soft g, uvular r

oui, je parle francais, mais le mec qui etait sur le tele a dit son nomme comme j-erba and on sais que ce nest pas correct

[Roogsy]

Je m'appelle Roogsy

Le stylo est dans l'ascenseur.

Ou est la salle de bain?

[DoubleUp]

that game look very Sunday league, that mid-field was soup sandwhich soft. Name one person that was in the middle of the park that tackles with steel and can seriously challenge for the ball in the air?. Serioux is not a Lb, stop doing that! your hurting the team. Robbos done get him a ticket back to wales. And dero needs to be striker! nothing else nothing more. The youth is the only chance we have, please dont make me repeat it again. And oh yeah Dichio is the best footy brain!. Bad form reds

[jloome]

^ You are quite obviously not talking about skill and talking about ability and youth.

I would wager that most readers would agree that Danny's soccer "IQ" is higher than any of those on your list.

If you define soccer IQ by reading the game, then I'd say Guevara's is probably as high. No one else on the list is in their league, in terms of that side of it.

If you define it as off the ball movement and reading, then Danny's probably highest, but with Guevara it's always hard to tell how much of a lethargic performance is emotional, travel fatigue etc.

[TFC AJAX]

Lets face it. TFC needs an infusion of some real players. If De Rosario is all we really have right now, we dont need to be in the play-offs. There are lots of players without a club in europe right now, that wouldnt mid to play a season or two in canada

[Chevy]

that game look very Sunday league, that mid-field was soup sandwhich soft. Name one person that was in the middle of the park that tackles with steel and can seriously challenge for the ball in the air?. Serioux is not a Lb, stop doing that! your hurting the team. Robbos done get him a ticket back to wales. And dero needs to be striker! nothing else nothing more. The youth is the only chance we have, please dont make me repeat it again. And oh yeah Dichio is the best footy brain!. Bad form reds


I don't even think we should buy him a ticket. I like the guy, and he's a decent defender (I would play him as a reserve central back, but he's too expensive) but his play lately seems to drain the energy from the entire team.

Does anybody else notice that he absolutely cannot hold on to the ball for more than one or two seconds? It's uncanny. Maybe something he was coached/brainwashed to do when he was younger, but we never generate any momentum after he touches the ball.

Even when he's wide open, off goes the ball as soon as he get's it. No patience, not even a look up the field.

Rant over.:facepalm:

[Belfast_Boy]

that game hurt. I know road games are difficult but that's where the quality has to come through and it didn't.

I was riding up in Aurora on Saturday and pulled over for a smoke. two girls teams were playing nearby. They might have been 11 or 12. That game was more entertaining than the one I watched that same night.

[v00d00daddy]

I don't even think we should buy him a ticket. I like the guy, and he's a decent defender (I would play him as a reserve central back, but he's too expensive) but his play lately seems to drain the energy from the entire team.

Does anybody else notice that he absolutely cannot hold on to the ball for more than one or two seconds? It's uncanny. Maybe something he was coached/brainwashed to do when he was younger, but we never generate any momentum after he touches the ball.

Even when he's wide open, off goes the ball as soon as he get's it. No patience, not even a look up the field.

Rant over.:facepalm:

Are you kidding? He's well on his way to winning POTY as voted by TFC supporters again. :rolleyes:

He is what he has always been. It's just taken three years for some people to notice that he isn't much. I can't wait until he's gone.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Lets face it. TFC needs an infusion of some real players. If De Rosario is all we really have right now, we dont need to be in the play-offs. There are lots of players without a club in europe right now, that wouldnt mid to play a season or two in canada

Names or it doesn't count.

BTW Gomez and Gerba are new and until this latest disapointment were not being chastised by the majority of the mob.

[ArmenJBX]

Ruud van Nistelrooy :D

[trane]

^ You are quite obviously not talking about skill and talking about ability and youth.

I would wager that most readers would agree that Danny's soccer "IQ" is higher than any of those on your list.

Agreed.

[v00d00daddy]

Agreed.

While we can definitely question his work ethic, Guevara's "soccer IQ" is much greater than DD's.

In my opinion.

And for his age......I would argue that Vitti knows where to be on the field just as much as Danny does.

[DangerRed]

I love Danny as much as the next supporter, but we seem to be overlooking one very important fact: the guy is not the future of the club.

You guys are talking about him as though having him play would make a difference in terms of the losses and inconsistency we've been suffering lately, but I disagree.

One man does not a team make.

Remember early in the season, when De Ro took a knock and was out for three games? The first game after he got sidelined marked the beginning of a hotstreak for the team.

My best guess is that Danny will be working in some sort of coaching capacity with the TFC come next season. Don't expect him on the pitch much for the rest of this one.

As for the idea of another "protest" on the 12th, with six games left in the season, at a crucial point when the team needs the supporters the most, just so we can yet again acknowledge Danny's legend and show the FO that we're not stupid? Well ... :facepalm:

[AL-MO]

As for the idea of another "protest" on the 12th, with six games left in the season, at a crucial point when the team needs the supporters the most, just so we can yet again acknowledge Danny's legend and show the FO that we're not stupid? Well ... :facepalm:

There is no protest. You're reading into this WAAAAAY too much.

[DangerRed]

There is no protest. You're reading into this WAAAAAY too much.

Is that right? Here's what Section 117 just wrote in the previous page of this thread:

"I swear if Danny gets cut which to me is the only reason why he didn't go with the team to LA I want a full scale riot on Sept 12 at home. We have to organize banners flags chants and demonstrate that we aren't stupid and he deserves the respect as he is a legend and will always be."

Again: :facepalm:

[AL-MO]

I saw that post.

So one post on a message board means a full scale protest is being organized?

[trane]

While we can definitely question his work ethic, Guevara's "soccer IQ" is much greater than DD's.

In my opinion.

And for his age......I would argue that Vitti knows where to be on the field just as much as Danny does.

I would say that Guevara and Vitti have more overall skill then DD, but soccer IQ, I do not think they are superior. However, part of it is that they play different positions, and therefore what they are called to do is different.

DD puts himslef in the right position, pass the ball to the right man and/or spot, when he does not have the ball he runs to an open spot, or runs into a position to impede the progress of an opposing player, and does alot of things both ways that make him very valuable to the team.

[DangerRed]

I saw that post.

So one post on a message board means a full scale protest is being organized?

Read my post again. I said the idea of it is dumb, regardless of whether it's actually being planned.

[AL-MO]

Read my post again. I said the idea of it is dumb, regardless of whether it's actually being planned.

There are alot of crazy ideas posted on this board. (especially after a loss)

This is par for the course.

[Monztro]

oh yeah and its pronounced GER (GRRRRR) BA you twat (speaking towards the announcer in LA)
Its pronounced (jer-ba) and rolls of the toungue as if your speaking french, if your going to call someone a twat make sure you know what your talking about.

TFC is now in a huge mess, and the future looks grim... if they can pull off a win in Seattle with that crowd, then I think they will run to the playoffs. This is the biggest game of the season for the Reds.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Its pronounced (jer-ba) and rolls of the toungue as if your speaking french, if your going to call someone a twat make sure you know what your talking about.

Same goes for you, it would appear we are both wrong


(pronounced ZHER-ba)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Gerba

I speak french fluently, thanks, so your lessons are unnecessary

I was venting from the loss, im not apologizing for it either, it was irritating to hear over and over.

I do agree with others when they state that OBW should not be starting over ZHER-ba

[barca99]

You guys are talking about him as though having him play would make a difference in terms of the losses and inconsistency we've been suffering lately, but I disagree.

One man does not a team make.


While I agree with you in your assertion that one man does not make a team, I think that DD's contribution to the team could be more. I don't like a long-ball style of play, nor do I coach it to my teams (we are all about possession), however this team seems to get stuck in that rut consistently. As a coach on the sidelines, when you see your team whipping in crosses or hoofing the ball up the field as far as they can trying to pick out a player, this is when putting DD in the game can be useful. I do not think that he is a starter, or would make a difference to the style that this teams plays as a whole, but when the other team is packing the box to defend, he can be used for his ability in the air, which is simply uncanny. Likewise, I think he could be useful in defensive situations when we are up a goal, to play a defensive midfielders role for his ability in the air. In these situations I DO think that one player can change a game.

[Oldtimer]

I'm with Oldtimer .... we need a tactician that is defence first, especially on the road. We need to play sound, defensive football and work from there. We aren't Barcelona. We can't dance around and play a finesse, passing game.



I'd actually favour signing Limniatiis as an assistant coach. He would work only with our defenders and our DMs, teaching them proper defensive formation. The Impact under him played some ugly football, but they ground out results.

Then I'd have a head coach to teach our offense how to score.

[trane]

I'm with Oldtimer .... we need a tactician that is defence first, especially on the road. We need to play sound, defensive football and work from there. We aren't Barcelona. We can't dance around and play a finesse, passing game.




I have been preaching this since season, one, but most are like I would rather lose but attack. OK that is what you have been getting. We are getting better in attack and only marginaly better in defending.

[Blizzard]

I would say that Guevara and Vitti have more overall skill then DD, but soccer IQ, I do not think they are superior. However, part of it is that they play different positions, and therefore what they are called to do is different.

DD puts himslef in the right position, pass the ball to the right man and/or spot, when he does not have the ball he runs to an open spot, or runs into a position to impede the progress of an opposing player, and does alot of things both ways that make him very valuable to the team.

His dummy against Houston leading to DeRo's goal was one of the most perfect/sublime moments of intelligence that we have ever seen in a TFC red shirt.

IMO, that play said it all. Dichio is a smart soccer dude.

[ensco]

His dummy against Houston leading to DeRo's goal was one of the most perfect/sublime moments of intelligence that we have ever seen in a TFC red shirt.

IMO, that play said it all. Dichio is a smart soccer dude.

One of about five instances this year where DD's insertion led to an immediate goal or serious scoring chance within two minutes

[Section 117]

One of about five instances this year where DD's insertion led to an immediate goal or serious scoring chance within two minutes

Yet Cummins continually wastes him by either a leaving him on the bench or giving him garbage time...

So the question is either wtf is Cummins watching or this must go above him, becuase there is no reason he should not have played more already this year