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denime
08-10-2009, 05:30 AM
Mornin'



TFC isn't that good -- Real-ly (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2009/08/10/10411896-sun.html)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

(gareth.wheeler@suntv.canoe.ca)

denime
08-10-2009, 05:38 AM
http://i26.tinypic.com/14dq0pe.jpg

London
08-10-2009, 06:01 AM
so actually we are not in a playoff spot with chivas playing 2 less matches

Brooker
08-10-2009, 06:14 AM
jesus i can't stand that Wheeler guy. such a cunt.

redcard
08-10-2009, 06:56 AM
good thing is wheeler is now focusing on the real issues with the team - accountability.

scooter
08-10-2009, 07:00 AM
mornin d

trane
08-10-2009, 07:04 AM
Once again Gareth Wheeler fuck you. It is funny, that when we were trully shite at the beggining of the season, many said nothing. Now that we are decent, but it trouble due to the ass poor start, particullarly in light that we were dropping major points at home, everyone wakes, up. Wow, no shit Wheeler Madrid is way better then TFC, next thing you will tell me Chelsea, United and Inter may be able to beat us as well. You do not say.

ensco
08-10-2009, 07:15 AM
^I'm not sure it was a "poor start" - it just looked that way because we thought we should be able to beat LA and Seattle. But those turned out to be better teams.

We've never been good all year. We've beaten teams that trail us in the standings, but what is that telling anybody? Only that we're not a crappy team.

We've been the dictionary definition of mediocre, right from the first whistle in March. Going to have to beat a whole whack of better teams now....

keem-o-sabi
08-10-2009, 07:16 AM
good morning all, sunshine is nice and coed is yummy (http://coedmagazine.com/category/girls/daily-snapshot-girls-2/)

TOBOR !
08-10-2009, 07:25 AM
I don't really see much wrong with that article, other than this comment :



Last week, TFC should have been taken to the ringer for bowing out of the CONCACAF Champions League. Instead, the coverage was all about Real Madrid -- a convenient distraction.


Well, that's the media's job, eh ? So perhaps turn that accusing finger back upon yourself.

MartinUtd
08-10-2009, 07:30 AM
I've never written to a columnist before, but this is what I just fired off:

Latest Column

It doesn't even say anything.

You need a blog, not a newspaper. Unless you actually have something to report, you're just a pundit. And that makes you nothing.

TorontoBlades
08-10-2009, 07:32 AM
^ hey, I'm a pundit :(

Oldtimer
08-10-2009, 07:43 AM
TFC under Carver:

11-16-12 in all competitions (GD -11)

TFC under Cummins:

9-7-5 in all competitions (GD +3)

TFC is much better under Cummins, the stats don't lie. However, we are being punished for our poor start to the season under Carver.

Billy the kid
08-10-2009, 08:19 AM
I wouldn't say losing to the Puerto Rico Islanders was embarassing. Disapointing surely, but not embarassing.

tfcleeds
08-10-2009, 08:22 AM
I wish Gary Loewen of the Sun was still on vacation - while he was away, Wheeler was taken off the TFC beat, and given Loewen's comic relief column. Loewen is funnier than Wheeler, though.

S_D
08-10-2009, 08:57 AM
good thing is wheeler is now focusing on the real issues with the team - accountability.

Agreed, and I think a substantial amount of people would agree with Wheeler's critique. Many of us have criticised the same points he made, I think it just hurts a bit more when it is someone else doing it rather than us. Kind of like you can push around your younger brother and don't feel bad about it, but if someone else does it you stand up for him :)

MartinUtd
08-10-2009, 09:00 AM
^ hey, I'm a pundit :(

Yeah sorry, I just felt like going for the low blow.

nimamalek
08-10-2009, 09:04 AM
TFC under Carver:

11-16-12 in all competitions (GD -11)

TFC under Cummins:

9-7-5 in all competitions (GD +3)

TFC is much better under Cummins, the stats don't lie. However, we are being punished for our poor start to the season under Carver.

Main problem with Cummins is the same as Carver, he doest understand the value of Dichio, case and point: 2 mins after Dichio comes on in the Madrid game, he creates our only goal by disrupting the defender and allowed White to have a shot on net. He also had our best chances against the islanders in both games after he came on late

.J.B.
08-10-2009, 09:17 AM
you guys have to be joking here... TFC is ASS, pure ASS... Mo has to go!, Cummins has to go!!!! the players need to be threatened with job security.... This article is correct in that our loss in CONCACAF was blown off the front page and INTENTIONALLY distracted by the Real game. Stop making excuses for your girlfriend's bad breath!! this team sucks bad and you know it... you do... I don't caree what positive things you can say.. this team really sucks ass!!! BAD!!

SoccMan
08-10-2009, 09:20 AM
I'm sorry people but we should be happy a major daily in our city has a guy writing that actualy knows the game, having played soccer at the youth and college level. Wheeler knows the game,unlike most of these other writers who would not know the difference between a free kick and a penalty kick, because he knows the game he will be critical when he has to be and know what he is talking about,he will ask the tough questions that need to be answered. Many of these other writers never seem to be critical because they don't know the game and secondly could care less about the team. We need more writers like Wheeler writing about soccer,people that know the game and care about the game and will be critical when things are not going right.

TFC RuKKuS RPB
08-10-2009, 09:22 AM
I wouldn't say losing to the Puerto Rico Islanders was embarassing. Disapointing surely, but not embarassing.

The embarrassing thing is the fact we couldn't score a goal against them. We should have had at least a goal in each game.

ua-kozak_TFC
08-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Great article by Wheeler...
Guys stop hating... HE was right on with ALL he said. and our standings proove his point...

andyc
08-10-2009, 09:43 AM
I'm with Wheeler on this one... It might hurt to see the truth in black and white, but it doesn't make it any less true...

tfcleeds
08-10-2009, 09:48 AM
Honestly, despite my previous post (which was partly tongue-in-cheek), I don't have such a problem with Wheeler. Other than the hatchet job he did post-Columbus, he really hasn't done a bad job at covering the team at all.

Roogsy
08-10-2009, 09:49 AM
It's killing me that Wheeler is putting out better articles. I want to ignore him but lately, he's one of the few (along with Bill Lankhoff) that are actually talking about the real issues of this team.

Pigfynn
08-10-2009, 09:50 AM
If we are soooo bad what are New York and San Jose? I don't know guys, but a win on on Saturday and TFC is 3rd in the east... not exactly the end of the fucking world is it?

Calm down.

Suds
08-10-2009, 09:53 AM
I'm with Wheeler on this one... It might hurt to see the truth in black and white, but it doesn't make it any less true...

yep, I'm with ya ... I have taken issue with a number of Wheeler's articles but I think his points in this one are dead on.

Roogsy
08-10-2009, 09:56 AM
If we are soooo bad what are New York and San Jose? I don't know guys, but a win on on Saturday and TFC is 3rd in the east... not exactly the end of the fucking world is it?

Calm down.


Right now we are out of a playoff spot with New England and Chivas behind us with 2 games in hand and DC playing most of their games at home whereas after this weekend we have 2 more games at home out of 9. If there is no sense of urgency now...I don't know when there would be.

ua-kozak_TFC
08-10-2009, 09:58 AM
If we are soooo bad what are New York and San Jose? I don't know guys, but a win on on Saturday and TFC is 3rd in the east... not exactly the end of the fucking world is it?

Calm down.
LOL.... hahahah so according to you.... so as long as we are not DEAD last lets party... REALLY? Do you support TFC? or YOu support CArlsberg? by going to BMO...

rocker
08-10-2009, 09:58 AM
so actually we are not in a playoff spot with chivas playing 2 less matches

technically we are in the playoff spot.. we hold the tiebreaker on Chivas.

Of course as you say they have 2 fewer games played.. but they actually have to win those 2 games to make the tiebreaker irrelevant.

And of course, it's way too early to be talking about this stuff ;)

TFCREDNWHITE
08-10-2009, 09:58 AM
The reason why all you haters say "TFC is ASS" is because of ONE reason, THE SALARY CAP!

Roogsy
08-10-2009, 09:59 AM
LOL.... hahahah so according to you.... so as long as we are not DEAD last lets party... REALLY? Do you support TFC? or YOu support CArlsberg beer? by going to BMO...

Is this really necessary? Can you debate the points without the sarcasm or mockery or are you not able to verbalize a cohesive thought without insulting someone? Seriously Kozak...go get a coffee and come back because we don't need this stuff on this board.

MartinUtd
08-10-2009, 10:00 AM
Okay so Wheeler calls out management for not living up to expectations. Stop the press and hand this guy a fucking Pulitzer.

What else does he say? He goes on to place blame on the cap. As if the rules that every other MLS team plays for is somehow hampering TFC to a greater extent. Sure you could argue that Canadian domestics are harder to land, but management has actually done a top notch job in that regard.

My problem is that there really is no content to the rant. And that is just what it is, a long paid per word whine. Are we supposed to be thankful that this is the coverage we're getting? I want to see reporting, not hastily thrown together opinion pieces that rehash the same talking points we've been seeing for months now.

Roogsy
08-10-2009, 10:02 AM
What else could he talk about? Is he going to give the Real Madrid blow job treatment the rest of the media are talking about in this town?

If there is anything we have learned, it's that it doesn't take one article to make people wake up. It takes many, many articles saying the same thing in every way possible to finally get people to understand the point.

This is a part of that. The sports reporters need to be hammering away at this issue on a regular basis before we will likely see results.

If that is not your cup of tea, I recommend some of the many Real Madrid lovefests you will find all over Toronto media this weekend.

rocker
08-10-2009, 10:04 AM
My problem is that there really is no content to the rant. And that is just what it is, a long paid per word whine. Are we supposed to be thankful that this is the coverage we're getting? I want to see reporting, not hastily thrown together opinion pieces that rehash the same talking points we've been seeing for months now.

ya there's no depth... no coherence between Wheeler's points.
It's like he cut and paste some random complaints from the message board.

Someone said Wheeler understands soccer cuz he played it.. but I never get a sense from his writing that he knows the game at all. It's all the soap opera stuff without any depth. He says Cummins doesn't have it..... why???? tell us, Mr. Soccer Player.

Rather than stating the obvious he could actually talk about what ails the team.... tactically, in terms of the makeup of the squad.... in terms of how this squad relates to other MLS squads.
Because saying "team is not good enough" is lazy thinking.

ochos
08-10-2009, 10:06 AM
Have to say I agree with everything he's said in the article. I hate the SUN, but this piece was dead on. Pessimistic at worst..

Can't see why people are hating on him - of course, I don't read that trash regularly, so I wouldn't know if you're holding grudges.

rocker
08-10-2009, 10:07 AM
Have to say I agree with everything he's said in the article. I hate the SUN, but this piece was dead on. Pessimistic at worst..

Can't see why people are hating on him - of course, I don't read that trash regularly, so I wouldn't know if you're holding grudges.

read my message above yours.. agree? disagree?

Roogsy
08-10-2009, 10:09 AM
Have to say I agree with everything he's said in the article. I hate the SUN, but this piece was dead on. Pessimistic at worst..

Can't see why people are hating on him - of course, I don't read that trash regularly, so I wouldn't know if you're holding grudges.

Wheeler wrote a shit piece on supporters at the beginning of the year and has been in the doghouse ever since.

MartinUtd
08-10-2009, 10:10 AM
ya there's no depth... no coherence between Wheeler's points.
It's like he cut and paste some random complaints from the message board.

Someone said Wheeler understands soccer cuz he played it.. but I never get a sense from his writing that he knows the game at all. It's all the soap opera stuff without any depth. He says Cummins doesn't have it..... why???? tell us, Mr. Soccer Player.

Rather than stating the obvious he could actually talk about what ails the team.... tactically, in terms of the makeup of the squad.... in terms of how this squad relates to other MLS squads.
Because saying "team is not good enough" is lazy thinking.

That's pretty much what I was trying to get across, just didn't have the words for it.

Saying they're "just bad" is not what I expect from a paid "reporter" with a press pass and inside connections.

ua-kozak_TFC
08-10-2009, 10:20 AM
technically we are in the playoff spot.. we hold the tiebreaker on Chivas.

Of course as you say they have 2 fewer games played.. but they actually have to win those 2 games to make the tiebreaker irrelevant.

And of course, it's way too early to be talking about this stuff ;)
lol.... it's the right time to worry...because this is when WE CANNOT LOSE games...
It is NOT the time to say we ARE out of the playoffs... because matematically we aren;t... realistically it's going to BE VERY HARD.... i think like 7 out of those 9 games are against teams competing for the playoff spot... So it;s all up to us. But it is definetly the RIGHT time to worry, Because next thing you know we are out...

joel
08-10-2009, 10:23 AM
That's pretty much what I was trying to get across, just didn't have the words for it.

Saying they're "just bad" is not what I expect from a paid "reporter" with a press pass and inside connections.


You're not going to get a detailed breakdown analysis in a broad-based media outlet like the sun. It's not a soccer mag.

He really does know his stuff, I've talked with him about it on many occasions. I think people just hate him from the Columbus piece and people are just trying to take issue with any article he writes onwards. His points are valid, and echo the same things everyone says here, so it's funny to see people try to take issue with it. You could reference every paragraph to a similar discussion on this board among RPBs.

ochos
08-10-2009, 10:24 AM
rocker^^^

Ya I do agree. But then again, it's the SUN, so I don't expect any better. And I read it on the interweb, which has pretty much managed to dumb down the entire world in a decade (including myself). AND, I still agree with most of what he said.

But ya, what else do you expect from that rag? They employ writers that target their demographic - people with lower IQ's who lack any critical thinking - with poorly written pundit pieces. Nuff said.

Pigfynn
08-10-2009, 10:28 AM
LOL.... hahahah so according to you.... so as long as we are not DEAD last lets party... REALLY? Do you support TFC? or YOu support CArlsberg? by going to BMO...

When did I say "let's party"?

I was merely addressing the support for a news article implying we are a very bad team. You agree publicly with an article stating we are a horrible team and then question my support for trying to see the bright side?

Silly person.

ua-kozak_TFC
08-10-2009, 10:29 AM
That's pretty much what I was trying to get across, just didn't have the words for it.

Saying they're "just bad" is not what I expect from a paid "reporter" with a press pass and inside connections.
he actually is... By stating there is Problem rather than saying it's all fine and dundy... What do you want him todo to freaking DO MO's job stating what guy they should bring what tactic they should play etc... You guys are being redicuolos.

a "paid REPORTER" ... and that's exactly what he is He reports on the situation of the team... You are Asking him to be a paid Manager of SOccer...

Point 2... hE DID SAY WHAT'S bad ...You are just missing his point and not listening. He mentioned That the defense was disorganized and lacking in skill. He mentioned that our coach needs to be upgraded perhaps to someone more experienced. He mentioned that MO isn;t doing a good job in PUTTING a squad together...And he's still getting a contract extention.... which shows an out of touch MLSE...

I think he was really specific....

Lucky Strike
08-10-2009, 10:40 AM
so actually we are not in a playoff spot with chivas playing 2 less matches

Actually, we are in a playoff position by virtue of having a better record vs. Chivas this year (remember that slick 1-0 win?). Not that it makes a huge difference to your point, just pointing it out for the record.

trane
08-10-2009, 11:14 AM
TFC under Carver:

11-16-12 in all competitions (GD -11)

TFC under Cummins:

9-7-5 in all competitions (GD +3)

TFC is much better under Cummins, the stats don't lie. However, we are being punished for our poor start to the season under Carver.


Agreed. Under Carver for the most part we were shite. Under Cummins, I will use a word Roogsy used, and I think is great, it is not mediocare, but "decent". Meaning, I think that we are better then mediocare in this league, on good days we could be the best, but we are not consitent enough. On bad days we are just a mediocare MLS team. We seldom have terrible games. But we sitll make terrible errors, particullarly at the back. We have been very flat at times. Like against PRI. A bit of effort and flare would have won us both of those games.

MartinUtd
08-10-2009, 11:24 AM
he actually is... By stating there is Problem rather than saying it's all fine and dundy... What do you want him todo to freaking DO MO's job stating what guy they should bring what tactic they should play etc... You guys are being redicuolos.

a "paid REPORTER" ... and that's exactly what he is He reports on the situation of the team... You are Asking him to be a paid Manager of SOccer...

Point 2... hE DID SAY WHAT'S bad ...You are just missing his point and not listening. He mentioned That the defense was disorganized and lacking in skill. He mentioned that our coach needs to be upgraded perhaps to someone more experienced. He mentioned that MO isn;t doing a good job in PUTTING a squad together...And he's still getting a contract extention.... which shows an out of touch MLSE...

I think he was really specific....

I just read the article again and I'm struggling to see what you're seeing.

This is the problem he states: The team simply isn't good enough, in organization, tactics and personnel.

That's it. Wheeler immediately shifts direction and starts at the media.

Then later on he writes: If on-field performance were the sole indicator, there is no way Johnston should get an extension. Which jumping the gun a bit considering his earlier proclamation that Making the playoffs was the goal of management and players heading into the season. Anything short of that will be deemed a failure. Last time I check we were very much in the play off mix.
Maybe Wheeler does know his stuff and maybe my standards for reporting are too high, but I'll still call out a shit article when I see one. Simply put, it was a lazy piece. This sky is falling bullshit is nothing to be thankful for just because "at least the team is getting coverage."

trane
08-10-2009, 11:24 AM
^ If we had Cummins at the helm sooner, I would date to say we would have at least another 6 points, which would put us in a great position for the playoffs.

Super
08-10-2009, 11:37 AM
It's killing me that Wheeler is putting out better articles. I want to ignore him but lately, he's one of the few (along with Bill Lankhoff) that are actually talking about the real issues of this team.

QFT! It's hard to deny the validity of his arguments. The league IS held back by the salary cap. Losing to PR was indeed a disaster that should have consequences. There are tons of footy fans in this city who based on the RM game would never give TFC a second glance (not a great ad for our team, or league). The team is NOT playing well right now, and our play-off chances are not good. Etc., etc.. He's pretty much spot on with this article.

GBV
08-10-2009, 11:45 AM
friendly:

CNE Announces Scotland’s Celtic FC to Compete
for CNE Cup Against Portugal’s SL Benfica
International soccer match scheduled for September 2 at BMO Field

(Toronto, ON), August 10, 2009—The Canadian National Exhibition announced today that
Scotland’s Celtic FC will compete against Portugal’s SL Benfica at BMO Field for the inaugural CNE Cup on Wednesday, September 2 at 7:30pm. Tickets go on sale August 14 and range in price from $40.00 to $125.00, which includes admission to the CNE. Tickets can be purchased via Ticketmaster at www.ticketmaster.ca/event/100042FD11BBAD55 or 416-872-5000 <blocked::http://www.ticketmaster.ca/event/100042FD11BBAD55 or 416-872-5000> . Visit www.TheEX.com <blocked::http://www.theex.com/> for complete details.

The Celtic Football Club currently plays in the Scottish Premier League <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League> . Since the club's formation in 1888, Celtic has won the Scottish championship on 42 occasions, most recently in the 2007/08 season <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League_2007-08> , and the Scottish Cup <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Cup> 34 times. Celtic won the European Cup in 1967, beating Inter Milan <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter_Milan> 2-1 in the final. Together with their Glasgow rivals, the Rangers <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C.> , they form the Old Firm <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Firm> , one of the most famous and fierce rivalries in sport <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivalries_in_sport> .



Sport Lisboa e Benfica, commonly referred to as Benfica, is historically the most successful in Portugal and one of the “três grandes” or “big three <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_three> clubs” in Portugal with Porto and Sporting being the other two clubs. Benfica has several titles to its credit including 31 Portuguese Liga <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Liga> (Portuguese League) titles, 27 Portuguese Cup <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Cup> (Taça de Portugal, Portugal Millenium Cup) titles and 2 European Cup (currently, UEFA Champions League <blocked::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League> ) titles making it the most successful Portuguese football club in international competition.


This will be the first time that SL Benfica has played against Celtic FC in a Canadian friendly match.

About the CNE
The Canadian National Exhibition (CNE) is Canada’s largest fair and the fourth largest in North America. Founded in 1879, the CNE attracts more than a million visitors over 18 days and generates more than $50 million in economic impact for the City of Toronto and over $70 million for the Province of Ontario on an annual basis. The 2009 CNE takes place from August 21 to September 7 and offers more than 100 concerts, events and attractions that are all free with admission to the fair. This year, in honour of Toronto’s 175th birthday, Opening Day admission will be $1.75. Visit TheEx.com for details.

-30-

Dave67
08-10-2009, 11:50 AM
In insignificant but cool news. The entire team jogged by me today around 11:30. They were heading over to Lamport for practice. Gerba was so far behind everyone I had to laugh. I guess with the grass coming out it's a day for Lamport?

Flashman
08-10-2009, 12:41 PM
technically we are in the playoff spot.. we hold the tiebreaker on Chivas.

Of course as you say they have 2 fewer games played.. but they actually have to win those 2 games to make the tiebreaker irrelevant.

Actually, they just need as little as one draw in those two games to make the tie breaker irrelevant.:rolleyes:

mclaren
08-10-2009, 12:48 PM
I mostly agree with Wheeler's article - apart from the bit about the Real Madrid game being a good idea.

rocker
08-10-2009, 01:18 PM
Actually, they just need as little as one draw in those two games to make the tie breaker irrelevant.:rolleyes:

oops... but if they lose both we're fine... get it? ;)

everyone always assumes games in hand don't turn out to be losses.

right now we are in 8th place (playoff position).

moralis
08-10-2009, 01:30 PM
Three trialists training with Toronto FC:

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6351452&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

Anyone know who they are?

TFC07
08-10-2009, 01:32 PM
Well written article. Bums like Mo need to be held accountable. I hope other media members start pressuring TFC. If we don't make it to the playoffs, then this season will be a HUGE disappointment. If Mo still is a GM for next season, then it is safe to say that MLSE has no desire of building a winning team.

MartinUtd
08-10-2009, 01:33 PM
Has everyone given up on this season already?

TFC07
08-10-2009, 01:35 PM
Has everyone given up on this season already?

Not me yet, but it going to be one tough run to make it the playoffs. So I can understand why some people here are given up season.

Super
08-10-2009, 01:38 PM
Has everyone given up on this season already?

I don't think anyone has given up. But we have quite a few games to go, and it's unnerving to be told that pretty much every home game is now a must win - and also that we need to pick up a couple of wins on the road. Nothing in our past would suggest that we are able to pull this one off, but where there is a chance we must pursue it - and believe in it as well.

Roogsy
08-10-2009, 01:40 PM
Has everyone given up on this season already?

Does recognizing the likelihood mean giving up on the season?

If by giving up you mean I won't be at the stadium cheering them on...you're off-base.

But if by giving up you mean recognizing that the likelihood is that we won't see the playoffs....then you're right.

Fort York Redcoat
08-10-2009, 01:42 PM
you guys have to be joking here... TFC is ASS, pure ASS... Mo has to go!, Cummins has to go!!!! the players need to be threatened with job security.... This article is correct in that our loss in CONCACAF was blown off the front page and INTENTIONALLY distracted by the Real game. Stop making excuses for your girlfriend's bad breath!! this team sucks bad and you know it... you do... I don't caree what positive things you can say.. this team really sucks ass!!! BAD!!


Yeah the FO controls what the papers print. Pass the tin foil hat mr sunshine.

v00d00daddy
08-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Has everyone given up on this season already?


I don't think I've given up on the season but I want to avoid what happened last season. TFC reached a point where it was very important that they play well while they still had enough games to make an impact.

The longer people look for the silver lining the less time the team has to make the playoffs.

I don't want to be talking about having to win 4 in a row and needing team x to lose to team y for TFC to have a CHANCE at making the playoffs.

If TFC start playing well now they can make the playoffs. If they wait until it no longer matters (which is only a couple of games away) then I'll be pissed.

Just my opinion....TFC have 4 home games left and one is this weekend against D.C. (the only Eastern Conf. team left to play us at home). If they don't beat D.C. and have to rely on consistently winning on the road....they're done.

TFC was out of it around this time last season. (not mathematically of course) but we all know how it ended. I can't stand the thought of doing the same thing this year.

MartinUtd
08-10-2009, 01:50 PM
It seems like a lot of people already think we're out of the play offs. Recognizing that we have an uphill battle is one thing, but saying the season is over and its time to fire Mo/Cummins/Brennan/Vitti/Barrett/Gerba/etc is a bit different. I'm personally reserving my final verdict on Mo until the very end of the season so I'm not opening that can of worms just yet. I don't think its time for the fire sale yet though.

We have a game against NY and SJ to go as well as visits to two biggest sliders in the league in Chivas and Seattle. Make no mistake we need to pick up these points or we're in deep shit. I still think that 9-10 of those 12 points is attainable in addition an average run throughout the rest of the season and we should be in the post season.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-10-2009, 01:52 PM
massive game vs DC.....MASSIVE!!!!

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-10-2009, 01:55 PM
Once again Gareth Wheeler fuck you. It is funny, that when we were trully shite at the beggining of the season, many said nothing. Now that we are decent, but it trouble due to the ass poor start, particullarly in light that we were dropping major points at home, everyone wakes, up. Wow, no shit Wheeler Madrid is way better then TFC, next thing you will tell me Chelsea, United and Inter may be able to beat us as well. You do not say.


at the beginning of the season we took 4 of 6 points on the road under Carver and playing better then anytime in the last 75 days when we have been shite home and away....JC come back all is forgiven!!

Super
08-10-2009, 01:57 PM
I'm personally reserving my final verdict on Mo until the very end of the season so I'm not opening that can of worms just yet. I don't think its time for the fire sale yet though.

I agree with you on that one. If we fail to make the play-offs it'll be time to find a new manager and coach. We're in this game to win - and if they can't do it for us then someone else should be given the chance. Simple as that. Trying the same failed tactics over and over again won't make them work.

However, if we do make the play-offs then I'm all for giving Mo and Cummins a new contract - or in the case of Cummins a permanent one.

trane
08-10-2009, 03:56 PM
at the beginning of the season we took 4 of 6 points on the road under Carver and playing better then anytime in the last 75 days when we have been shite home and away....JC come back all is forgiven!!

So despite Cummins having a better record, that Carver, you still think that Carver was a better manager?


I do not want to put you on ignore as I just do not believe in it, but seriously dude, your opinion on football is just misguided.

Shway
08-10-2009, 04:09 PM
TFC under Carver:

11-16-12 in all competitions (GD -11)

TFC under Cummins:

9-7-5 in all competitions (GD +3)

TFC is much better under Cummins, the stats don't lie. However, we are being punished for our poor start to the season under Carver.


The stats doesnt say anything, because if you really take it in, Cummins hasnt done ANYTHING! different from what Carver did. So all in all it would seem Carver would have the same stats if he was coach right now.

Thats why i believe TFC need a new coach, put CUmmins back to Assitant, because there wasnt no change, however the complacency stayed the same in the coaching staff, which is good.................or is it?:picard:

trane
08-10-2009, 04:12 PM
^ Cummins has done plenty of new things. Attakora starting, Vitti in midfield, Barret on the wing, two DMs. Just too name a few that come to mind, and the 4-3-3. All of these have had some success.

Shway
08-10-2009, 04:17 PM
i couldve sworn Carver started that.

but regardless the changes were only maybe because it was due to injury,
in other words it was luck....that was the only reason why we saw Nana, Barret on the wing was because of Gerba comming in.
Ive yet to see Chris Carver, i meann Cummins really really do a serious change

trane
08-10-2009, 04:20 PM
^ I will not argue he is the best coach ever. He is inexperienced, and he simply has not been around long enought for me to give a final opinion on him. However, I do think that he is an improvment on Carver, who tried to fit a tactical appraoch his team was just not adopting too well. Are great right now. No. Are we better. Yes, from what I see.

Shway
08-10-2009, 04:42 PM
^ I will not argue he is the best coach ever. He is inexperienced, and he simply has not been around long enought for me to give a final opinion on him. However, I do think that he is an improvment on Carver, who tried to fit a tactical appraoch his team was just not adopting too well. Are great right now. No. Are we better. Yes, from what I see.

Anyone can say this year was going to be better from the beggining of the season, it was like guarannteeedd that we were going to be better, so im saying regarldess if carver resigned we would still be doing how we are doing today

trane
08-10-2009, 04:54 PM
^ I thought we were getting worse. We looked completly confused on the pitch, with an arguably more tallented team then the previous team.

Oldtimer
08-10-2009, 05:15 PM
Carver plays with traditional wing + cross play 4-4-2

Cummins plays through the centre. 4-3-3

I can't see how you could see that much similarity between the two.

TFCRegina
08-10-2009, 05:28 PM
The stats doesnt say anything, because if you really take it in, Cummins hasnt done ANYTHING! different from what Carver did. So all in all it would seem Carver would have the same stats if he was coach right now.

Thats why i believe TFC need a new coach, put CUmmins back to Assitant, because there wasnt no change, however the complacency stayed the same in the coaching staff, which is good.................or is it?:picard:
Ah right, he's done nothing. Winning our first trophy is nothing apparently. He's achieved one half of the objectives set out by MLSE so far. If he makes playoffs, he's done both. But I guess we can't measure success by what we achieve based on our set goals.

Instead we should fall into the blame game, running around like chickens with our heads cut off, claiming he's achieved nothing. When the trivia question is asked 20 years from now, "Which coach lead Toronto FC to their first trophy?" The answer will be: Chris Cummins.

That will never change.

This isn't to excuse our shite tactics in Champions League though. We never should have played that direct without taller players on the pitch (IE: Danny D).

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-10-2009, 05:55 PM
So despite Cummins having a better record, that Carver, you still think that Carver was a better manager?


I do not want to put you on ignore as I just do not believe in it, but seriously dude, your opinion on football is just misguided.


we will never now what record JC would have right now...what i do know is we played better as a team when he was here...he would not have accepted the team playing as solo acts as they did against PR Islanders.

S_D
08-10-2009, 05:57 PM
^ I will not argue he is the best coach ever. He is inexperienced, and he simply has not been around long enought for me to give a final opinion on him. However, I do think that he is an improvment on Carver, who tried to fit a tactical appraoch his team was just not adopting too well. Are great right now. No. Are we better. Yes, from what I see.

Agreed.

What concerns me most about Cummins is his lack of experience. But I have seen a glimmer of hope that he is learning. After Barrett's red card, he saw Barrett losing it again and pulled him off the field during RM.

What the FO has to decide is it worth letting him grow into the job and deal with the mistakes that cost us games and potential income.

If TFC is going to allow him to continue coaching he needs a mentor. Mo isn't it lol. With these high priced events like vs. Real Madrid, why not leverage something like this and try and create that sister club thing like a few of the other teams have already done in the MLS. Just imagine if CC could go over to Spain as say an "observing assistant" and be able to help train their players, and learn from their manager during our off season.

I dare say a month in Spain seeing their technical football could do wonders for training TFC players, and not only that, allow him to learn tactics from the manager. And heck why stop there. Send a few of them over including the Academy coaches.

With Real Madrid, I bet you will see their opponents try all sorts of things to shut down their attack from close man marking to final 1/3rd bunkerball. Just imagine what he could learn.

Oldtimer
08-10-2009, 06:46 PM
Agreed.


I dare say a month in Spain seeing their technical football could do wonders for training TFC players, and not only that, allow him to learn tactics from the manager. And heck why stop there. Send a few of them over including the Academy coaches.

With Real Madrid, I bet you will see their opponents try all sorts of things to shut down their attack from close man marking to final 1/3rd bunkerball. Just imagine what he could learn.

This is a really great idea, I wonder if they could get RM to agree to this. It would be fantastic for TFC.

S_D
08-10-2009, 06:58 PM
you'd have to get the front office to think of it first :)

TFCRegina
08-10-2009, 07:13 PM
you'd have to get the front office to think of it first :)

Front office thinking? :P

Oxymoron? Kidding of course.

jloome
08-10-2009, 08:26 PM
Carver plays with traditional wing + cross play 4-4-2

Cummins plays through the centre. 4-3-3

I can't see how you could see that much similarity between the two.

The 4-3-3 started under Carver, in the game when he moved upstairs, just before he left.

Roogsy
08-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Agreed.

What concerns me most about Cummins is his lack of experience. But I have seen a glimmer of hope that he is learning. After Barrett's red card, he saw Barrett losing it again and pulled him off the field during RM.

What the FO has to decide is it worth letting him grow into the job and deal with the mistakes that cost us games and potential income.

If TFC is going to allow him to continue coaching he needs a mentor. Mo isn't it lol. With these high priced events like vs. Real Madrid, why not leverage something like this and try and create that sister club thing like a few of the other teams have already done in the MLS. Just imagine if CC could go over to Spain as say an "observing assistant" and be able to help train their players, and learn from their manager during our off season.

I dare say a month in Spain seeing their technical football could do wonders for training TFC players, and not only that, allow him to learn tactics from the manager. And heck why stop there. Send a few of them over including the Academy coaches.

With Real Madrid, I bet you will see their opponents try all sorts of things to shut down their attack from close man marking to final 1/3rd bunkerball. Just imagine what he could learn.

I am also wondering if a "sports psychologist" might help this team as well?

I know the guy that started helping NHL teams in the 70s and still coaches professional organizations. Someone to come in and break down the mental barriers of performance might help a team that has the talent to perform but seems to have lost something along the way.

Have TFC considered doing this? You gotta think outside the box (even though this isnt' really outside the box anymore as many teams already do this) and doing something to make the players "click".

rocker
08-10-2009, 08:49 PM
MLSE has a sports psycho for the Raps

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/579519

Roogsy
08-10-2009, 08:52 PM
How the hell did you find that so fast? LOL!

Oldtimer
08-10-2009, 09:00 PM
The 4-3-3 started under Carver, in the game when he moved upstairs, just before he left.

Carver took some credit, but it was Cummins on the bench.

ensco
08-10-2009, 09:23 PM
The 4-3-3 started under Carver, in the game when he moved upstairs, just before he left.

Oldtimer is right, jloome. Carver was the rooster taking credit for the dawn there.

S_D
08-10-2009, 10:22 PM
This is a really great idea, I wonder if they could get RM to agree to this. It would be fantastic for TFC.

Now that I have thought more about it, it would work on so many levels.

Just imagine:

1) The academy team gets to go over during the summer holidays and train with one of RM's academy teams. Kids I bet would clamour to try and get on the academy teams. It would certainly help to overcome some of the difficulties faced trying to pry players from local clubs here.

2) This would be huge news across North America and would probably make some news headlines in Europe. It would send a powerful message that TFC is taking this very seriously. Massive branding = happy Anselmi

3) The message it would send to the players and potential players. We have a pipeline to arguably the most talented club in the world. We also could get some access to their talented youth who need playing time.

4) Real Madrid gets it's name spread out across North America (not that it needs help mind you but still) and all of their merchandise is available at TFC games. Got to pay for those transfers somehow lol.

Now would RM consider it? Not sure but Barcelona thought Miami in the MLS was a good idea.

TFC07
08-10-2009, 11:43 PM
Now that I have thought more about it, it would work on so many levels.

Just imagine:

1) The academy team gets to go over during the summer holidays and train with one of RM's academy teams. Kids I bet would clamour to try and get on the academy teams. It would certainly help to overcome some of the difficulties faced trying to pry players from local clubs here.

2) This would be huge news across North America and would probably make some news headlines in Europe. It would send a powerful message that TFC is taking this very seriously. Massive branding = happy Anselmi

3) The message it would send to the players and potential players. We have a pipeline to arguably the most talented club in the world. We also could get some access to their talented youth who need playing time.

4) Real Madrid gets it's name spread out across North America (not that it needs help mind you but still) and all of their merchandise is available at TFC games. Got to pay for those transfers somehow lol.

Now would RM consider it? Not sure but Barcelona thought Miami in the MLS was a good idea.

I believe Real Madrid already has a sister club in MLS (Real Salt Lake)....lol

EDIT:

Details of Real Salt Lake's partnership with Real Madrid:

-- An agreement that Real Madrid will play exhibition matches in Utah every other year.

-- Real Madrid will provide 50 percent of the funding for the Salt Lake soccer academy.

-- Real Madrid coaches and players will train with Real Salt Lake.

Source: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20060902/ai_n16711063/

mighty_torontofc_2008
08-12-2009, 10:04 PM
I believe Real Madrid already has a sister club in MLS (Real Salt Lake)....lol

EDIT:

Details of Real Salt Lake's partnership with Real Madrid:

-- An agreement that Real Madrid will play exhibition matches in Utah every other year.

-- Real Madrid will provide 50 percent of the funding for the Salt Lake soccer academy.

-- Real Madrid coaches and players will train with Real Salt Lake.

Source: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20060902/ai_n16711063/


Good deal for RSL...the friendlies anyways they will get a full house ever other year!!

Oldtimer
08-13-2009, 04:58 AM
Good deal for RSL...the friendlies anyways they will get a full house ever other year!!

:lol: