Tactical issues: what's driving YOU nuts

[jloome]

The team needs to address a littany of repeated tactical mistakes. I'd like
to hear some opinions on these issues and whether people are going to be watching to see how Cummins actually changes the team shape to make our attacking movement, short passing and ball control more effective, along with addressing our ongoing defensive issues.


Marvell Wynne: Gives opposing wingers too much space behind him. While
he's technically reading the distance and time he needs to close on them
correctly, he repeatedly fails to account for the fact that he usually picks up that position slightly closer to the midfield than actually in the final third; as a result, when the play drifts closer to our end slightly, Marvell stays static and the man he's marking gains a few yards, and now has enough space to receive the ball in deep.

He's fast enough even then to often close down the player by sprinting back, but rarely stops the cross in, because his pace to get back doesn't allow him to turn quickly and try to cut off the winger simply stepping wide and drifting a cross in. It's also why he's had a few handballs in that position over the last couple of seasons; his arms are flailing somewhat to help him maintain balance as he turns to mark, because his pace coming back is necessarily too fast.

This is one of of our single biggest defensive weaknesses. Why? Because
typically, it starts a chain reaction. Jimmy Brennan starts overcompensating by pinching in tighter to the box on the other side, because he's anticipating having to drift across to cover for whichever centre half is covering for Marvell.

As a result, when the opposing team switches field, or even changes course quicking from a central distribution position, his winger just has to hug the line and has a world of space to put a ball in. Jimmy's too close to the centre of the box to effectively pressure him.

This tends to force Carl Robinson over towards the top right corner of the box to cover, and he can't pressure any midfielders running into the box.

This all has another disastrous consequence: players lose track of whom they're marking as the ball comes in on crosses, allowing opposing teams to be free to attack the ball.

Teams have been killing us with this for far, far too long. It's retarded. An eight-year-old could see this is happening.

Dwayne DeRosario: Is simply trying too much and not looking for support. Yes, that sometimes means he carries us to victory. But you can't carry a team in every game.

Again, this has a cascade effect; he cuts inside so much -- far more often than he crosses, which is rare -- that our defensive shape is very predictably unbalanced, allowing the opposing team to set up in space and move the ball up field comfortably on the counterattack.

It also throws Guevara right out of wack. He's a hell-on-wheels committed player going forward, but going back, he's simply not a strong defender. Having him and DeRosario playing on the same side is defensive suicide, so thank god they corrected that. But Guevara, at his age and with his current focus as a scorer and creator of goals, should be playing in the hole....the same position Duane should be playing in.

This misuse of these two players fundamental talents is, consequently, a fundamental mistake. DeRosario's man is often free coming back and Guevara sometimes simply doesn't get back fast enough to pressure either a switch of field or play through the middle. If we're going to play both, it'll probably only work if DeRosario is an out-and-out striker in a two-striker system.

Robinson: Is having his legs prematurely cut out from under him. No player should have to try to cover this much defensive ground, while also frequently dropping back into the final third to cover for a missed defensive assignment. It's no wonder he's playing like crap; he's all over our half of the field. Even a holder has to have some positional focus and time.

Gerba: Vitti and Barrett didn't work as a pairing. We went to a 4-3-3- the game before Carver left and haven't really left it, per se, since. But this is tactically inept in and of itself. Other teams breakdown film, too. Only sheer arrogance about talent versus tactical cohesion suggests you hold to a system simple because it worked well twice.

And with Gerba, it won't work. He's not strong in the air, he's a poacher, a cannon-shot guy with a deceptively good turn and first step, and good sense with respect to attacking the net. But for that to be effective, he needs a partner, or at the very least a proper inside hole player.

(And incidently he's not terribly unfit, he has a small gut and a crapload of muscle, same as Colin Samuel. That doesn't equal unfit. It equals a small gut. Lots of fit people have a little mid section paunch, but could run almost anyone on this board into the ground. Hell, I've got a buddy who can cycle hours to the mountains without so muchas a breahter and has such a fast, athletic metabolism, he can eat 10 meals a day without gaining anything other than muscle...and he has a little gut, just like Gerba's.):drinking:

Direct build-up: The idea of having your target man act as a secondary outlet when you can't find someone with good space to move into is all well and good, but it only works if, just occasionally, you have the initial good movement to offer an alternative.

We get the ball. We headman the ball. We Get the ball. We try to beat the fullback and roll it out deep or lose it. We get the ball. We headman the ball.

For fuck's sake. Seriously?

Anyway, you guys get the idea. Anyone else got a particular tactical peeve right now?

[Shakes McQueen]

POSSESSION FOOTBALL PLEASE.

You defend leads by keeping possession - not by kicking the ball away like it was a hot potato.

- Scott

[DoubleUp]

We're a small team, so we have to play a small mans game. Using our bigger players to our advantage.

[Red Skies At Night]

Movement! For the longest time this squad has been static on the field. When we have possession of the ball almost no players are moving into space to receive the ball whcih leads to our player trying to force a pass (usually long) that isn't there and we turn the ball over. Sometimes it makes me feel like my heads going to explode while watching. This is something that should be a mainstay of practice but I seriously wonder if they even work on it.

[SilverSamurai]

POSSESSION FOOTBALL PLEASE.

You defend leads by keeping possession - not by kicking the ball away like it was a hot potato.

- Scott
I'd have to agree with this.
Oh and having cv2 around. lol

But really, playing the long ball and 5-4-1...:facepalm:

[tlear]

I think Gerba definitely needs a partner. Who is it though? Dichio should start atleast one game together with Gerba. Maybe give Vitti another shot up front? I like 433 but more on the defensive version. With the amount of offensive players we play it seems a bit unbalanced

[The Historian]

Movement! For the longest time this squad has been static on the field. When we have possession of the ball almost no players are moving into space to receive the ball whcih leads to our player trying to force a pass (usually long) that isn't there and we turn the ball over. Sometimes it makes me feel like my heads going to explode while watching. This is something that should be a mainstay of practice but I seriously wonder if they even work on it.

Yes! I agree 100%! I can't stand to see everyone standing around off-the-ball.

I also think there's way too much 'hit and hope' lofting the ball towards the edge of the penalty area, especially since we don't have the size for it.

[LucaGol]

Movement! For the longest time this squad has been static on the field. When we have possession of the ball almost no players are moving into space to receive the ball whcih leads to our player trying to force a pass (usually long) that isn't there and we turn the ball over. Sometimes it makes me feel like my heads going to explode while watching. This is something that should be a mainstay of practice but I seriously wonder if they even work on it.

This should be everyone's answer.

Movement leads to passing leads to possession leads to space opening up leads to shots leads to goals

[MG42]

I'd like to see us attack with some speed, more throughballs (perhaps not with Gerba up front alone :) ), attacking on angles etc.

[jabbronies]

It sounds like Marvell is throwing the whole defensive line out of whack.

Dero does what he does because no one else on the offensive line, save Guevera, is doing anything to create proper chances. I don't blame him for doing it. It's frustrating watching Vitti loose the ball everytime he touches it. Or Barrett misfiring instead of passing. I'm not saying what DeRo does is right, I just understand why he does it.

For some reason we are still playing for Vitti and Barrett as oppose to playing for Gerba. We need to change our offensive strategy to better suite Gerba. Which we are not doing.

[STB]

It sounds like Marvell is throwing the whole defensive line out of whack.


I feel sorry for Marvell and Brennan. At the moment we play no natural wingers in the 4-5-1 so our fullbacks have to play like wingbacks to get some natural width.


The reason you see almost all teams in the uk playing 442 is because thats teh formation we grew up with and the easiest formation to organise. TFC are trying to be too fluid as almost the entire midfield switches around and plays (mostly) out of position.

Personally i think our main problem is the players we have, not necessarily their skill but the fact that apart from Wynne and Brennan everyone wants to play through the middle hence the terrible crossing against PR.

My solution would be to pick up a LM and RM (or put nana at Rb and Wynne at RM) purely so we can stretch the play and fling balls into the box for Gerba or Dichio.

[Pookie]

1. I've got to echo the movement mantra. I think my U8's get into space better than some of our guys.

2. Not exploiting our strengths. Wynne has pace but we tend to start our attack by playing a number of balls through the middle and don't seem to want to execute simple plays to the outside... particularly in the mid-field.

3. When we do go to the outside it is usually outside of their box, where we attempt to cross. Unless Dichio, White or Ibrahim are on the pitch, not one of our forwards is over 6'. Against taller defenders, that is an inherent disadvantage.

4. Defending late in the game. This isn't "tactical" in terms of shape but what I can't understand is that we routinely are tagged with "running out of gas" yet we have defensive youth firmly planted to the bench. Brennan & Robinson are over a decade older than Gomez, Sanyang, Gala. Surely, it makes sense to swap experience for fitness if fitness is fingered as the reason for our late goals. They can't do any worse.

[Flipityflu]

the static way our players behave when we have poccession drives me bonkers. its no wonder we just boot and hope, as well as how excited people get when we string 5 successful passes together.

[trane]

I agree with jloome, about Wynne.

Another ongoing tactical issues on defense for me, is that our defenders need to defend the box. Meaning play to prevent balls and opposing player from comming into the box, not constantly play catch up and chasing balls and opposing players that are already in our box and/or deep in our final third.

[Beach_Red]

1. I've got to echo the movement mantra. I think my U8's get into space better than some of our guys.

2. Not exploiting our strengths. Wynne has pace but we tend to start our attack by playing a number of balls through the middle and don't seem to want to execute simple plays to the outside... particularly in the mid-field.

3. When we do go to the outside it is usually outside of their box, where we attempt to cross. Unless Dichio, White or Ibrahim are on the pitch, not one of our forwards is over 6'. Against taller defenders, that is an inherent disadvantage.

4. Defending late in the game. This isn't "tactical" in terms of shape but what I can't understand is that we routinely are tagged with "running out of gas" yet we have defensive youth firmly planted to the bench. Brennan & Robinson are over a decade older than Gomez, Sanyang, Gala. Surely, it makes sense to swap experience for fitness if fitness is fingered as the reason for our late goals. They can't do any worse.

That one. And to go with it, ignoring our deficiencies.

It's been well documented here lately that "on paper" TFC is as talented as any team in MLS but they aren't playing cohesively. It may be that the individual players lack that skill (though saying DeRo is too individual as someone said here seems odd with a guy who's been on so many championship-winning teams) or it may be that there's no system to implement that cohesiveness.

In a salary-cap league most teams "on paper" will be very similar. Look at the NFL - there isn't really such a big difference in player skill between teams but some coaches win a lot more often than others by designing game plans that fit the players they have specifically for the opposition the face.

TFC seems to throw out the same plan against every team and then not adjust as the game goes on. It really looks like teams don't worry about playing TFC because they know as the game goes on they'll figure it out and gain the advantage and they don't have to worry about TFC figuring them out.

[CoachGT]

Combination of tactical and skill issues kill me.

First touches are horrendous for many of our boys. If a ball hits you and bounces 5-10 yards away, then there is a problem. It should drop to your feet, within 3 yards at the most (and 3 yards should be only once in a while). No matter where the ball comes from, no matter how hard, it should be ready to be played immediately as it touches the ground. This skill is better executed by our European and South/Central American players, and the Gambians seem quite good at it.

That begets the next piece - the more tactical one - positioning! Our positioning off the ball is often terrible. How many passes seem to go off into open space and/or to an opponent. Doesn't matter whether we have the ball or not - our positioning is terrible. I mark that up as tactical because it does not look like we are trying to play any particular system at all at times. Very simple - keep your triangles working. But if you can't control the first touch, positioning can either make up for it or not matter at all.

From comments above, I believe that defensive movement late in the game is tactical, but it goes beyond just that. Defensively, we seem lost on opposing corners, always seeming to leave men unattended despite a numerical advantage. One guy gets open and it punishes us more often than not.

I've got no problem with Frei hoofing the ball downfield (his kicks are better than 90% of the keepers in the league) but he is very good at playing it out of the back, where we maintain better control and possession. We seem to end up with better drives when the ball is played from the back.

And please, please, please give up the short corners! It seems an automatic way to give up the ball! And I don't think we've ever seen anything resemble success from this!

[CoachGT]

4. Defending late in the game. This isn't "tactical" in terms of shape but what I can't understand is that we routinely are tagged with "running out of gas" yet we have defensive youth firmly planted to the bench. Brennan & Robinson are over a decade older than Gomez, Sanyang, Gala. Surely, it makes sense to swap experience for fitness if fitness is fingered as the reason for our late goals. They can't do any worse.

I'm not 100% sure that fitness is the issue but that is the first thing that pops to mind with late goals against. I think it is more psychological. I find our focus deteriorates later in games. If fitness is the issue, then we should be starting the kids (to give them experience) and playing our veterans later in the game, keeping them fresh and bringing better decision making (it should be better if you are fresher).

Again, a tactical issue at a different level is closing men down more quickly all the way through the game. We seem to give opponents way too much space with the ball - pressure causes poorer decisions and/or poor execution. We do it sometimes - the way we played Puerto Rico at home we seemed quite intent on this in parts of the game, and against River Plate we did this quite well.

If we are going to play an English style, then we need to play all parts of it, including hard pressure, especially in our third of the pitch.

[rocker]

oh god, the short corners piss me off too. Lately they've been doing them almost every single time, and it seems so hopeless. Many times they can't even get a ball in the box from those.

[KRO]

I agree with most of the analysis. I've always been a supporter of what Robbo has done for the team but for the last month or so he seems to be giving the ball away much more and seems to be struggling.

His strength has always been winning the ball or making himself available in front of the defense then giving an easy first time short pass to get things moving. Now it seems that he is trying longer forward high risk passes and actually trying to dribble occasionally and is not being very successful. Is this something that he has been told to do or are other players not making themselves available for the short passes? Whatever the answer is he is in danger of losing his place in the team because he is not being used properly.

[Pookie]

I'm not 100% sure that fitness is the issue but that is the first thing that pops to mind with late goals against. I think it is more psychological. I find our focus deteriorates later in games. If fitness is the issue, then we should be starting the kids (to give them experience) and playing our veterans later in the game, keeping them fresh and bringing better decision making (it should be better if you are fresher).


I'd agree with that.

Playing the kids also speaks to a management tactic that I think is being overlooked.

This is a salary capped league but with allocation money you can apply that against the cap and build a team that exceeds caps. That's a particularly useful tool if you are close and need to add a piece to the puzzle or a decent player suddenly becomes available.

You receive allocation money for players that leave, usually via transfer.

No one is going after Robinson or Brennan. But play Gomez/Sanyang/Ibrahim/Gala for a few years and one of them might find interest from other clubs.

Management is about drafting well, capitalizing on those talents while they are here and keeping a steady stream of transfer money flowing in. Using veterans to offset the inexperience of youth is a solid strategy. Using them to stifle development of a potential asset isn't a great tactic.

[fetajr]

the FUCKING LONG BALL. Thats whats driving me nuts

especially the Serioux long ball throw in into the box...can TFC coaching be any more un-imaginative than that?

[prizby]

what is driving me nuts is injuries!

[jloome]

There's a real constant here, which seems to be a lack of offensive discipline and movement, coupled with sitting too deep defensively and having to cover assignments for the wingbacks.

So:
1) Our support play is bad. Poor movement means you're not giving the man with the ball options.

2) Our defense is static and collapses into the box too early, while our fullbacks are playing like 5-3-2 wingbacks and getting caught up too often (a pretty lethal combination against a counterattacking, defensively shaped opposition.)


Most of this speaks to an overuse of direct play. Perhaps that's because the 4-3-3 stretches us too much offensively now that teams know how to cover it, and that forces the fullbacks to overcommit, in support of the wide forward or midfielder, depending on which player is closer to the sideline.

Problematically, when this is happening, the skill players exacerbate the situation by trying to hard to create individually and move the play forward individually. Instead of trying to beat one man, they're trying to beat three. That actually plays into the problem of being too direct, because it's low percentage, limiting their possession time in the long run, and giving more of it to their opponent.

[jloome]

I'm not 100% sure that fitness is the issue but that is the first thing that pops to mind with late goals against. I think it is more psychological. I find our focus deteriorates later in games.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's fitness. It's that they lack fear and aren't focussed players. As has been suggested before, there's a reason most of these guys couldn't hold down starting roles at their former clubs, and it's not a lack of skill.

That's not a terminal problem. But it requires a manager who is going to snap them to attention regularly. I'm reminded of the Alex Ferguson shoe throwing incident: anyone who thinks that was really in the heat of the moment doesn't understand the man. He plays the role of both coach and parent, because he understands that, in many respects, pro athletes have the temperaments of spoiled children.

That doesn't imply they won't put their effort in, it just means that occasionally, they get bored, their mind wanders, they lose the passion of the moment etc. But a disciplinary manager snaps that shit out of them right quick -- perhaps even by flinging a boot at the head of the golden boy on the team.

Osieck was the best coach Canada's ever had, and we lost him because the CSA kowtowed to a bunch of Canadian players who, because of their resenment towards the lack of soccer recognition in their home country, acted like they were king shit euro royalty, staying out at night on road trips and partying the night before games.

They figured they were better than the system they played in. While our problem isn't quite that extreme.... it's not a whole lot further off sometimes, either.

[STB]

IMO bring back Andy Welsh !!!!!

[Darlofletch]

wow, that's quite the analysis, well done.

Agree about Wynne, our defence often looks really unorganised, and it's usually caused by then trying to cover up someone's mistake. It's not always Wynne by any means, Brennan isn't great and Serioux isn't a good left back alternative, see Columbus's first goal for a great example of this, serioux misses a challenge and suddenly everyone's racing back trying to cover, sliding in to challenges and it just looks awful.

I feel bad for Garcia, if he had three tactically sound defenders with him, he'd be a very good player, but in our defence you've got to be able to react to mistakes and cover for other people, and he just doesn't have the speed to do that, so he ends up looking bad.

Robinson as well, I agree just gets given too much to do, so often he looks overwhelmed and ineffective.

[Section 117]

Tatics?? What are these tatics you are talking about???

From what I have seen over the first 3 years TFC didn't get the memo about tatics

All they know is long ball

[Free Agents]

Movement! For the longest time this squad has been static on the field. When we have possession of the ball almost no players are moving into space to receive the ball whcih leads to our player trying to force a pass (usually long) that isn't there and we turn the ball over. Sometimes it makes me feel like my heads going to explode while watching. This is something that should be a mainstay of practice but I seriously wonder if they even work on it.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

[Darlofletch]

Another thing about Wynne that drives me nuts is that too often he drifts over to the middle to try and help out there, and leaves his man open. Sometimes that's needed, but usually our cb's are already there. It's great he wants to help out, but at that point you've got to do your job and cover your man and trust that your colleagues will do their job.

This led to Huckerby's goal, and it seems to keep happening.

[gtaguy]

One of the biggest mistakes i see tfc doing is handling the ball too long,, they allow the opponents to come in on them and that always pressures them to make dumb plays. look at the eurpean league and seattle sounders they spread themselves out and don't allow opposing player to get in to tight to allow the opposing team to steal or block thier shots.

Another thing is the team bunches itself up into a small space when they have a whole field to play with.

Another is the shit ass passing.. the ball comes in too hard on a player and the recieving player ends up letting it bounce away from them.
No smooth soft passes. No looking around first before you toe punt the damn thing, Just too much obvious passing where your apponents can easily read you..

I once had a coach that said that if you found yourself most of the time in a pressure situation it was becuase you weren't reading the game properly or giving yourself space . the best clubs are always the clubs that are soft footed(passing refined) and quick to the ball and quick to pass.. I wish this guy was still around to teach tfc a thing or two...

[rocker]

i think wynne just depends too much on his speed. he's too confident that he can get back, so he takes a lot of liberties with his positioning. usually he's OK with doing that, but occasionally it all falls apart.

[Pookie]

Another is the shit ass passing.. the ball comes in too hard on a player and the recieving player ends up letting it bounce away from them.
No smooth soft passes. No looking around first before you toe punt the damn thing, Just too much obvious passing where your apponents can easily read you..

Whether it is passing or the first touch, this is more of a skill thing. Let's face it, these guys are in the MLS because they aren't good enough to play in top leagues. It is a problem that will likely continue regardless of the number on the back of the jersey.

Not being able to see other MLS games out of market (yet), I'd be curious to know how many teams actually change their formation week in and week out.

From TFC's perspective, the game strategy seems to be fairly consistent regardless of the opponent. Given that teams have a week to prepare for us and have access to video, I imagine they build a fairly solid game plan to counter whatever we throw at them. Even our subs are generally predictable.

I remember last year they moved Wynne up. It was such a surprise to see something new but it only lasted about a half. There may have been value in keeping that experiment going a little longer and/or injecting some new ones regardless of the immediate outcome. It would have made us less predictable and a little harder to prepare against.

[Cobblers]

for me the big problem is we don't use the middle of the pitch well going forward. The gap between our lone striker and our central midfielders has been huge in recent times. I would like to see Cronin given an opportunity to command the midfield in Guevara's place, for a game or two. He is one of the few players we have who lays off and runs into a position for a return ball or provide support (ie. the MOVEMENT everyone keeps bringing up), consistently. He has a decent touch, passes fairly well and reads the game fairly well. He's also probably the most fit player we have. I think if we coupled that with playing Gerba and DeRo down the middle together in a 4-4-2 our passing game and creativity would improve and would create space down the wings, if we needed/wanted it (as defenders would have to collapse a bit to shut down the middle). The other option would be a 3-5-2 with Cronin and Guevara in the middle together and Robbo acting as an old fashioned stopper in front of a sweeper (Robbo almost plays this role as is, anyway) and two fullbacks. This also forces our defensive pressure a bit further up the pitch.

Just thoughts....

[bertal]

POSSESSION FOOTBALL PLEASE.

You defend leads by keeping possession - not by kicking the ball away like it was a hot potato.

- Scott

i completely agree. possession football, keep the ball on the ground (ie short to medium passes). AND NO MORE LONG BALLS WTF

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Interested in what's being said here. Don't have time to read the whole thread now so I printed it out (all 16 pages…arg)!

I watched a game Wednesday with a team in exactly the same position as TFC were Tuesday night. The away goal holders were at home and packed the midfield and penalty box hoping to hold on. Our manager changed the tactics from the first tie…we scored two and moved on.

Carry the ball up the middle till you can go no further…then on the deck up the wing…stretch the field…the defending team ran out of gas…they were all over the park chasing shadows…

[STB]

Interested in what's being said here. Don't have time to read the whole thread now so I printed it out (all 16 pages…arg)!

I watched a game Wednesday with a team in exactly the same position as TFC were Tuesday night. The away goal holders were at home and packed the midfield and penalty box hoping to hold on. Our manager changed the tactics from the first tie…we scored two and moved on.

Carry the ball up the middle till you can go no further…then on the deck up the wing…stretch the field…the defending team ran out of gas…they were all over the park chasing shadows…

Yeah but the bhoys have a solid team and played 442 (from what i heard on talksport). This helped to devote space to the wingers and puch them up, as far as i heard both goal were caused by crosses, something TFC cant seem to get right

[mmmikey]

good post jloome... your analysis of Wynne and the effect on Brennan pieced together 2 things that have been really bugging me on defense. Wynne's lack of balance and flapping arms as he tries to madly recover at a high speed (allowing the easy stop and cross), and brennan being pulled in close to the box to defend the headers coming in. i was entirely chalking Brennans positioning up to his lack of pace trying to keep with a player trying to turn him. he seems to always be 5 yards back and crosses have been getting in quite easily from his wing.

i agree with u about DeRo as well. i would really like to see him given a definitive position on game days, either as a secondary striker or more as a winger. his ability to cut into the box is great, but it has become very predictable and seems to clog up the box. as a result we seem to give up on any kind of spacing when we get in close to the net. our passing is virtually non existent there.


so what i would like to see is...

1. DeRo paired up with Gerba as forwards, and DeRo slightly withdrawn: This will allow for some mobility at the front line and Gerba has shown in the past that he can combine well when given some support. Problem with this is who provides the width on the right side? A guy like Wynne could grow into that role. He can cover ALOT of ground and would be a real asset being able to blast back down the pitch to help the back 4. This would also remove some of his defensive responsibilities. True, he isn't the best crosser of the ball, but we aren't getting much of that from the right side as it is right now. :) Hopefully these changes would give a little more support to Gerba who seems to be on an island out there. Ultimately though, we really need a proper right sided player to work that side of the field as DeRo is the only guy working that area lately.. Hey we happen to have some roster spots available.....

2. Width: Refer to above point. :)

3. Adjust Tactics to the Opponent before and during the game: Mostly, you hit the nail on the head with my biggest tactical gripe. NO ADJUSTMENTS. Between games, or during games. I have never followed a soccer team that does so little changes to their tactical makeup. I was shocked after the 2nd PRI game. I sat there thinking... How could they not notice the tactics in game 1 were NOT breaking them down. Game 2 was almost the exact same thing. The only changes seem to be who fills in for injured player X, and which forward will be a midfielder in the next match. It's like watching that fly trying to get outside but keeps hitting the window. Over and over again. But at least the fly is incapable of that kind of problem solving.

3. More mobility off the ball from our DM (and team in general): Your probably right about Robbo being given too much of the defensive area to cover, but it seems to me like even when all 4 are in position, he doesn't move up to help out his fellow midfielders advance the ball. This doesn't have to be to big a difference in positioning.. sometimes its a matter of moving up 10 yards to receive the ball and quickly return it. Seems like all too often the defense can halt our advance through the midfield by swarming the dude with the ball and the one guy near him (i.e. Vitti & Guevara). It's about triangles. You see every other team doing it, yet TFC seems to like lines.. usually with an opposing player dead in the middle. ;)

[mmmikey]

Very simple - keep your triangles working.

And please, please, please give up the short corners

OMG YES. on both counts.



In a salary-cap league most teams "on paper" will be very similar. Look at the NFL - there isn't really such a big difference in player skill between teams but some coaches win a lot more often than others by designing game plans that fit the players they have specifically for the opposition the face.

great point... and so true. the most consistently successful francises over the last 10 years in the NFL have always been the ones with the best coaching staff's and by extension the best front offices. andy reid (head coach of eagles who almost always are contending since he took over) says it best: "its my job to put the players in the best position to win." i would love to see cummins say that.



I feel bad for Garcia, if he had three tactically sound defenders with him, he'd be a very good player, but in our defence you've got to be able to react to mistakes and cover for other people, and he just doesn't have the speed to do that, so he ends up looking bad.

i feel bad for him too. he came in at a moment of real anger from the supporters and has made the most of his limited physical abilities. he doesn't deserve the stick.. he isn't making stupid plays or giving up, he just isn't fast enough and there is nothing he can do about that. our defense is always in scramble and recover mode rather than strong positioning and he is going to get abused as a result.

[West220Side]

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2923/barrettpwnz.png

NUFF SAID.

[jloome]

I think the point of the short corners is that they'll pull over a guy for the short corner who's being marked in the middle of box initially, in the hopes of creating increased separation between the two centre halfs, and increasing space for Toronto forwards to get on the ball.

Hasn't worked for shit so far, though.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

one tactic i would like changed...if we up with 15 mins left, then push the ball around, and defend, not take any chances of blowing the lead looking for another goal, we cant afford any more dropped points at home.

[Roogsy]

Jeremy...dude...that post is MASSIVE! LOL!

Somewhere in there you touch on defensive responsibilities and that is what bugs me the most about this team. It's lapses in concentration. Picking up the trailing player. Marking in the box. Set pieces.

Overall, very low quality. And I can't say it's a single defender.

On the offensive front...just the hesitancy and the lack of confidence in the final third is a major factor why we fail to sustain pressure. It's like this team panics or doesn't know what to do when they cross the centre line.

[RPB73]

I agree with jloome, about Wynne.

Another ongoing tactical issues on defense for me, is that our defenders need to defend the box. Meaning play to prevent balls and opposing player from comming into the box, not constantly play catch up and chasing balls and opposing players that are already in our box and/or deep in our final third.

That has alot to do with Robbo and Cronin. They are the holding midfielders, there job is to protect the back 4 especially the central defenders. They should be closing down the attack first in the final third. This would allow our back 4 some time to get organized. They don't have to win every ball but slow down the attack for our back 4. This will be an on going problem because of Cronin's lack of experience and Robbo's awful form this season.

[Yohan]

i agree with u about DeRo as well. i would really like to see him given a definitive position on game days, either as a secondary striker or more as a winger. his ability to cut into the box is great, but it has become very predictable and seems to clog up the box. as a result we seem to give up on any kind of spacing when we get in close to the net. our passing is virtually non existent there.


so what i would like to see is...

1. DeRo paired up with Gerba as forwards, and DeRo slightly withdrawn: This will allow for some mobility at the front line and Gerba has shown in the past that he can combine well when given some support. Problem with this is who provides the width on the right side? A guy like Wynne could grow into that role. He can cover ALOT of ground and would be a real asset being able to blast back down the pitch to help the back 4. This would also remove some of his defensive responsibilities. True, he isn't the best crosser of the ball, but we aren't getting much of that from the right side as it is right now. :) Hopefully these changes would give a little more support to Gerba who seems to be on an island out there. Ultimately though, we really need a proper right sided player to work that side of the field as DeRo is the only guy working that area lately.. Hey we happen to have some roster spots available.....

I would mind seeing a return to 4-4-2

------------Frei
-Gomez-Serioux-Garcia-Attakora
-Barrett-Cronin-Guevara-Brennan
---------DeRosario
---------------Gerba

DeRo plays slightly behind Gerba. Since DeRo likes to go forward, he'd be available to get on to Gerba's passes when Gerba holds up the ball and give support.
Guevara would still be the link man between defence and forwards. Brennan and Barrett would provide some width from wing play.

[jloome]

Jeremy...dude...that post is MASSIVE! LOL!

Somewhere in there you touch on defensive responsibilities and that is what bugs me the most about this team. It's lapses in concentration. Picking up the trailing player. Marking in the box. Set pieces.

Overall, very low quality. And I can't say it's a single defender.

On the offensive front...just the hesitancy and the lack of confidence in the final third is a major factor why we fail to sustain pressure. It's like this team panics or doesn't know what to do when they cross the centre line.

Heh heh, can you tell I'm a frustrated fan?

There is the ongoing line of thought that, as much as we love the technical ability some of them have, our lineup just isn't smart enough in its play. That'll kill any team.




That has alot to do with Robbo and Cronin. They are the holding midfielders, there job is to protect the back 4 especially the central defenders. They should be closing down the attack first in the final third. This would allow our back 4 some time to get organized. They don't have to win every ball but slow down the attack for our back 4. This will be an on going problem because of Cronin's lack of experience and Robbo's awful form this season.

Keep in mind though that all of our opposition are making this very hard to do by basically bypassing the middle of the field in our half. They play the two fullbacks because they're easier to beat, then pack the box. The bigger issue to me is that both Robbo and Cronin have blown assignments with respect to trailers heading into the box.

We're all around sloppy when it comes to marking, even in games where we have work ethic. That may go to the above noted point about just not having a smart enough starting lineup.

[jloome]

Whether it is passing or the first touch, this is more of a skill thing. Let's face it, these guys are in the MLS because they aren't good enough to play in top leagues. It is a problem that will likely continue regardless of the number on the back of the jersey.

Not being able to see other MLS games out of market (yet), I'd be curious to know how many teams actually change their formation week in and week out.

From TFC's perspective, the game strategy seems to be fairly consistent regardless of the opponent. Given that teams have a week to prepare for us and have access to video, I imagine they build a fairly solid game plan to counter whatever we throw at them. Even our subs are generally predictable.

I remember last year they moved Wynne up. It was such a surprise to see something new but it only lasted about a half. There may have been value in keeping that experiment going a little longer and/or injecting some new ones regardless of the immediate outcome. It would have made us less predictable and a little harder to prepare against.


You have to wonder if this doesn't smack of arrogance a little; they play the same 4-3-3/4-5-1 variant every week. But while that can be accomplished with a 4-2-2 because of the originality in movement off the ball that you can ingrain in (effectively switching up positions on the fly to create movement into space), it's a lot harder to do that in a 4-3-3- and maintain defensive responsibilities, because the field is spread wider for the core midfield players.

So we can't just stick with it. And given that we haven't won in five (or something like that) you have to wonder why Cummins and Dasovich haven't figured it out,either.