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View Full Version : Should we start the kids?



jloome
08-04-2009, 11:50 PM
Once Nana's healthy, the lethargic and selfish play of the first team has me wondering if we wouldn't do better starting the kids who've shown and letting them fight for starting sports, while the older guys have a nice long think about whether they still wanna be footballers.

How about:

--------------Frei---------------
Wynne--Attakora--Gomez--Serioux

Vitti----Sanyang--Cronin--DeRosario

---------Dichio--------Gerba---------

Hell with it. With a 36% chance right now based on current form of even making the playoffs, and no champions league left to play for, we should blood the hell out of the kids. They've shown more heart individually and when in the team than the veterans, who're simply never gonna get it.

Sit the primadonnas for a couple of games.

Cobblers
08-05-2009, 12:40 AM
My suggestion going forward would be:

Frei
Attakora Gomez Serioux Brennan
Wynne Cronin Guevara Barrett
DeRosario Gerba

This suggestion is predicated on us ceasing the long ball game we have unsuccessfully been playing of late and moving to a very simple passing and crossing style of play.

We need to concentrate on our strengths:

Attakora and Gomez have shown good promise and athleticism. Serioux tackles with stick to make the opposition think twice. Brennan needs to take a step back and stick to the basics of defending - jockey, force wingers wide, and don't give them too much space to cross or cut in. If he does this he can still be of value and provide the occasional overlap and cross, which he is decent at. Use Wynne's speed in a simple fashion to run onto balls down the wing and provide crosses. he has shown he can hit the ball with his left foot so the occasional inside move and strike will keep defenders on their toes. Cronin as your box-to-box midfielder, capable of protecting the back four if necessary (I have never believed in a true defensive midfielder as you give up way too much space in the middle of the pitch) - he's a decent passer and is by far the fittest on the team. Force Guevara further up the pitch for his offensive playmaking and passing skills. He has been playing too deep lately to be of any use. He needs to score and feel useful to prevent his diving and potential nutjob ways. As much as everyone seems to hate on him, play Barrett down the wing and encourage him to take players on and put in crosses - his work rate alone will ensure he gets a few decent ones in in a game. Use DeRo's strength in the middle of the pitch where we have had a gaping hole all season. He loves to and is capable of taking players on and having a crack at goal - in the middle he can do this with more effect. He is also effective at getting his head on crosses, which we currently don't maximize. Gerba is not tall and not fast but thrives when his back is to the goal and turning on defenders to strike or lay off for others. These layoffs would benefit DeRo and a pushed-up-the-field Guevara, your two most proven offensive weapons.

Robbo's contribution vs salary these days makes him expendable. Vitti could be the single most talented player on the team skillwise but his decision-making and sheer lack of pace make him a poor striker, a poor midfielder and a poor winger - he's also expendable at his salary in my opinion (a needed move in my mind is to dump Robbo or Vitti and bring in a decent winger). Dichio still has the best football brain on this team and the touch to match. Consider bringing him in from 45-60 minutes for Gerba if things aren't working. OBW or Ibby as lates subs in matches we are winning - simply to offer then some first team playing time and experience and to provide some youthful energy to run down tired defenders near the end of games.

So that's my late-night, insomnia-induced TFC squad going forward. Guevara could easily be left off my starting squad if he doesn't produce...

Ossington Mental Youth
08-05-2009, 01:42 AM
dont forget White in there too
its kinda tempting, i think its worth a go once we are officially out of the race for playoffs, hell its tempting before that because the vets dont seem to have it in them at this point

Ossington Mental Youth
08-05-2009, 01:44 AM
ive come to a decision in the last 3 mins and im in agreement (although a bit scared and hesitant)

TFC_Junky
08-05-2009, 07:14 AM
I was saying this last night after the first half. We didn't look that determined and I thought what a good way for Cummins to send a message to the "leaders" by putting in the young kids who are just itching for minutes and would play like hell in any game they were given!?

-------------frei--------------
wynne-attakora-serioux-gomez
-----sanyang----cronin-------
-----vitti--------guevara------
-------gerba-----dero---------

thoughs on this formation?

bee dubya
08-05-2009, 08:03 AM
I'm pretty sure that we'll see some big changes to the starting line-up for the next game based on the PR game. Cummins has to shake things up and wake up the players from their current funk. It's great that we have some options now off the bench - even if they are unproven. Give the youngsters a chance and I think we'll all be surprised at what happens.

Hitcho
08-05-2009, 08:15 AM
how do guevara, de ro, gerba, dichio and serioux count as "kids"?

i think we'll see nana back as soon as he is fit, and gomes i am excited to see play again after his debut. sanyang is spoken about highly by the likes of Mo (not an objective voice of course, but still good to hear positive noises rather than nothing). OBW has some promise based on his college years and will surely get a chance next year after a decent pre-season and with some confidence back. cronin and frei continue to impress me, especially as rookies. barrett is young-ish and works his ass off, same goes for wynne who has speed but needs to work on his positional game in defence. fuad has raw potential and bags of speed.

that's nine young players on the roster we can hope to see more from. the new LB from Holland is only 24 or something, if he signs and is any good that's ten players. this is really encouraging when you look at our roster age from season 1 to season 2.

of the "old guard", the likes of gerba, serioux and de ro all have a good few years left in them yet, as does brennan in my book if he can get into a LM slot and not have to cover LB and be out of his natural position all the time. guevara probably has two more good seasons in him too.

so it's really just dichio (legend) and robbo (legend going through a dip in form) who are on the way out of this side at the moment in terms of age.

the future's bright, the kids will get development time, and cummins has shown he is not afraid to put them out there and give them a chance.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-05-2009, 08:27 AM
I was saying this last night after the first half. We didn't look that determined and I thought what a good way for Cummins to send a message to the "leaders" by putting in the young kids who are just itching for minutes and would play like hell in any game they were given!?

-------------frei--------------
wynne-attakora-serioux-gomez
-----sanyang----cronin-------
-----vitti--------guevara------
-------gerba-----dero---------

thoughs on this formation?

DeRo instead of Guevara and White up front with Gerba (Dichio being first sub along with Ibrahim if hes back)

daner90
08-05-2009, 08:43 AM
I am not sure how Garcia should be punushed for his play last night.
He did his job and held down the backline when he was the only defender back.
We held a clean sheet which was the goal going into the game, it is the offense that needs a kick in the pants.

ensco
08-05-2009, 09:46 AM
Doesn't matter what we think should happen.

Starters will all play the first half, or more. Players want to take the pitch against these guys - it's exciting for them.

People are paying big bucks for this. Plus, it's the biggest broadcast in the history of GolTV.

There's too much investment in this game for TFC to sit guys.

Bet on it.

v00d00daddy
08-05-2009, 09:57 AM
I was saying this last night after the first half. We didn't look that determined and I thought what a good way for Cummins to send a message to the "leaders" by putting in the young kids who are just itching for minutes and would play like hell in any game they were given!?

-------------frei--------------
wynne-attakora-serioux-gomez
-----sanyang----cronin-------
-----vitti--------guevara------
-------gerba-----dero---------

thoughs on this formation?


Close to what I would like to see.

I don't like the idea of 2 holding mids (apparently that's where Sanyang plays). I also haven't seen enough of him to suggest that he should start.

I can't bear to watch Brennan and Wynne play any longer. I don't know if Gomez can't play out on the left. Serioux has played there so my lineup and formation would look like this:

-----------Frei------------
Nana-Gomez-Garcia--Serioux
----------Cronin-----------
-Vitti-------------Barrett---
---------Guevara-----------
--DeRo---------------------
---------Gerba--------------

trane
08-05-2009, 10:33 AM
Once Nana's healthy, the lethargic and selfish play of the first team has me wondering if we wouldn't do better starting the kids who've shown and letting them fight for starting sports, while the older guys have a nice long think about whether they still wanna be footballers.

How about:

--------------Frei---------------
Wynne--Attakora--Gomez--Serioux

Vitti----Sanyang--Cronin--DeRosario

---------Dichio--------Gerba---------

Hell with it. With a 36% chance right now based on current form of even making the playoffs, and no champions league left to play for, we should blood the hell out of the kids. They've shown more heart individually and when in the team than the veterans, who're simply never gonna get it.

Sit the primadonnas for a couple of games.

Wynne-Attakora-Gomez- Serioux

-----Sanyang-Vitti-Cronin-----

--------------De Ro----------

-------Duchio-------Gerba----

4-3-1-2

Daveisonfire
08-05-2009, 10:34 AM
Where the heck is Ibrahim...I'm starting to think that Cummins doesn't rate him very highly

ElvistheEvilScotsman
08-05-2009, 10:58 AM
What about Wynne as a right midfielder? He's sloppy as hell when actually defending but has shown signs of being an asset on the attack.

I agree put the kids on defence. Garcia, Velez, and Brennan dont deserve to be in the lineup right now.

Yohan
08-05-2009, 12:18 PM
Where the heck is Ibrahim...I'm starting to think that Cummins doesn't rate him very highly
with US U20 team

__wowza
08-05-2009, 12:30 PM
honestly, they could use the rub, and the older gents might enjoy the feeling of "keeping up" with the young lads.

CoachGT
08-05-2009, 01:48 PM
What about Wynne as a right midfielder? He's sloppy as hell when actually defending but has shown signs of being an asset on the attack.

I agree put the kids on defence. Garcia, Velez, and Brennan dont deserve to be in the lineup right now.

Wynne has said several times that he does not like playing anywhere but fullback. IMO he shows his disdain for playing in the position whenever he is moved up. However, he can be very effective on the deep runs, like he was last night.

Personally, I agree that he seems to be a better natural winger than a back, especially with his speed. And last night he hit a cracker with his left, something Ihe hasn't done much of. His ball control needs work, though.

Cobblers
08-05-2009, 02:18 PM
as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, a quick one-two with a midfielder and Wynne would be away down the wing every time...

DoubleUp
08-05-2009, 02:31 PM
Get the kids in they're hungry, and Imo have'nt done anything to let us down. Go with a younger, faster and stronger line up and we'll give the other teams fits. this team needs more athleticism, which blends well with possesion play we need players that arent gonna stop running, and are gonna constantly trackback.

jloome
08-05-2009, 02:57 PM
There's also the ongoing issue of all our skill players being offensively oriented. Guevara doesn't seem to track back about 65% of the time, Vitti and Barrett are very poor defenders and Dero is a middling two-way midfielder.

We need much more patience and much more defensive poise, to start building from the back and from unit movement instead of headmanning the ball to our "skill players."

We can start any lineup we want, but unless we adjust the current tactical shortcomings (are our fullbacks EVER in fucking position to close down a winger??), toughen up and put the most heart on the field, we're in trouble.

trane
08-05-2009, 03:10 PM
^ Our fullbacks are hardly ever in good positions.

Pookie
08-05-2009, 03:39 PM
I'd say give that line up a long look in the RM game and consider it vs DC.

If it failed over the first half, you could sub back in a few of the regulars.

What's the worst that could happen? Blow a 2-1 lead? Get a red card and have to settle for the draw? Lose on aggregate goals to a USL team?

TFC RuKKuS RPB
08-05-2009, 03:49 PM
--------------Frei---------------
Wynne--Attakora--Serioux--Gomez

Vitti----Sanyang--Cronin--DeRosario

---------Dichio--------Gerba---------

ensco
08-05-2009, 04:16 PM
There's also the ongoing issue of all our skill players being offensively oriented. Guevara doesn't seem to track back about 65% of the time, Vitti and Barrett are very poor defenders and Dero is a middling two-way midfielder.

We need much more patience and much more defensive poise, to start building from the back and from unit movement instead of headmanning the ball to our "skill players."

We can start any lineup we want, but unless we adjust the current tactical shortcomings (are our fullbacks EVER in fucking position to close down a winger??), toughen up and put the most heart on the field, we're in trouble.

Speaking of tactical shortcomings, I have never seen a team where players have so much trouble moving without the ball into open space.

My guess is it's partly about thinking, partly about hustle, partly about coaching. It's why we play so much long ball.

This has been true since the beginning, in 2007, and it's getting really tiresome....

denime
08-05-2009, 04:27 PM
Yes,nothing to lose anyway.It's not that we can be relegated to USL,so YES play the kids.

Free Agents
08-05-2009, 04:55 PM
Sanyangs overpursuing in the first game cost us a goal. I don't think he's ready to start until he smartens up and plays under control. We only say him for like 5 minutes so small sample.

Attakora and Gomez I'd love to see on the back with Garcia and Serioux. I like that Gomez kid alot.

DoubleUp
08-05-2009, 04:57 PM
--------------Frei---------------
Wynne--Attakora--Serioux--Gomez

Vitti----Sanyang--Cronin--DeRosario

---------Dichio--------Gerba--------- I agree with your backline choice on paper it looks very physical, but I think Dero should play as striker with Gerba ,Dichio coming off the bench, guevara should be in the midfield along with Barrett who works hard up and down the wing, tracks back and draws defenders. Dero doesnt want to have to win the ball he ,just wants to score it so let him do that.

Pookie
08-06-2009, 07:11 AM
Another reason to play "the kids" is that under the current MLS compensation structure, allocation money is an important management tool.
It enables wiggle room around the cap and we get allocation money for players that are lost to transfers.

It is extremely unlikely that veteran players will attract the attention from other leagues that will generate a transfer.

This isn't the premiership, good players will come and go. Astute management includes using younger players' talents while they are here to improve your position in the table but also profit from their eventual "graduation" to higher leagues.

The roster can't completely be filled with kids as that ignores the skill level of players like De Rosario bring to the table. However, the kids aren't going to attract anyone sitting on the bench.