Chris Cummins

[Stryker]

Twenty games at the helm.
What say you?

[ensco]

Next.

[trane]

I like him for the most part. We are a better team under him. Despite the two CL performances we are a better more consistent team. However, he has made some poor decisions, and the CL loses, were largely a failure of his tactics. I continue to believe in him for now, but these two game, particulalry tonights, were he was unable to adjoust make me question if he is the man, at this time.

[Nuvinho]

He is staying til the end of the year.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i like him but hes not cutting it at this point, ill give him til the end of the season
id like himi around with Daso as asst coaches but we dont need someone like Mariner (whos sorta unproven but been under the helm of a proven coach)

[Dirk Diggler]

Whatever ... keep him and Mo till the end of season. We can fire Mo and Cummins once the playoffs start.

[noochie]

Why not give Dasovic a chance at the helm... this after all seems to be a proving ground for 1st time managers...

[fetajr]

how about MO?
MO goes, then Cummins

[Jay P]

give him till the end of the season, lets see how Cummins gets the squad to respond in home stretch to the playoffs.

CCL is a nice dream, but we would of gotten slaughtered. MLS Cup playoffs is the task @ hand now, so lets see what happens.

DC is next on the list and the first team has a week to rest / prepare.

[Shakes McQueen]

Started off well, but our consistency has dropped off consderably as his tenure has wore on.

I'm prepared to give him until the end of this season, but if things don't improve, he's first on my list to be replaced.

- Scott

[TFC USA]

We just got a clone of John Carver that plays slightly more attractive football (AKA less longball).

Next

[Marc"2L"]

team could use a break too.

this was a 2 nill win on any other night.

[Big Bruva]

I think this is where a manager makes his money, its all fine when ya winning matches in the honeymoon period but its about him being able to motivate his players and get the best out of them ater that period is done and results start going against the team.

I think CC should have more time but you have to ask yourself how CC is doing with the best squad on paper the club has had compared to what JC got out of the squad he had.

[ExiledRed]

^^He's been winging it for months.

kind of like that 7 year old driving a car on youtube.

Yes he can drive, yes he can obviously stay on the road, but he doesn't have the experience or the responsibility or the decision making skills required to be a safe driver.

[Beach_Red]

It would be good to see this team with a coach who has a good reputation and had previous success.

[ExiledRed]

It would be good to see this team with a coach who has a good reputation and had previous success.

Like Steve Nicol.:D

[Beach_Red]

Like Steve Nicol.:D

Yes, I said in the other post that would be great.

[Jay P]

steve nicol is good, but how many MLS Cups has he won?


Dom Kinnear.

[Yohan]

steve nicol is good, but how many MLS Cups has he won?


Dom Kinnear.
let's get Yallop if winning MLS Cup is the only criteria :facepalm:

[Jay P]

let's get Yallop if winning MLS Cup is the only criteria :facepalm:

and Nicol if losing the MLS cup final is the only criteria???


Kinnear's won MLS cups and dealt with fixture congestion, CCL, Super Liga,

what else do you need?

[Yohan]

and Nicol if losing the MLS cup final is the only criteria???


Kinnear's won MLS cups and dealt with fixture congestion, CCL, Super Liga,

what else do you need?
1. Kinnear never had to deal with CCL when he last won the Cup

2. I'd be highly surprised if Kinnear is willing to come to Toronto. Not a very likely option

3. I'd love to see Kinnear for TFC, however, there are coaches who I think would be effective in MLS, and does not have a MLS Cup ring. I don't believe MLS Cup should be a primary reason why you higher a coach, but I want to see a coach who can consistently get a team to playoffs.

[Beach_Red]

1. Kinnear never had to deal with CCL when he last won the Cup

2. I'd be highly surprised if Kinnear is willing to come to Toronto. Not a very likely option

3. I'd love to see Kinnear for TFC, however, there are coaches who I think would be effective in MLS, and does not have a MLS Cup ring. I don't believe MLS Cup should be a primary reason why you higher a coach, but I want to see a coach who can consistently get a team to playoffs.


You had some pretty good ideas for players to trade for, have you got any suggestions for coach? I mean who might actually come to Toronto.

[Jay P]

1. Kinnear never had to deal with CCL when he last won the Cup

2. I'd be highly surprised if Kinnear is willing to come to Toronto. Not a very likely option

3. I'd love to see Kinnear for TFC, however, there are coaches who I think would be effective in MLS, and does not have a MLS Cup ring. I don't believe MLS Cup should be a primary reason why you higher a coach, but I want to see a coach who can consistently get a team to playoffs.


1. 2006- US Open cup/ League
2. 2007- CONCACAF champions cup, US Open Cup/Super Liga/ League.

Kinnear has proven he can manage an MLS roster to win the league despite fixture congestions and multiple tournaments.


He may not want to come here, but like Brian Burke and Brian Colangelo.. everyone has a price.

[grizzle]

Polls like this should not be made right after a painful loss. Give it a few days and repost if you want proper answers.

[Yohan]

You had some pretty good ideas for players to trade for, have you got any suggestions for coach? I mean who might actually come to Toronto.
Honestly. I don't know exactly who's available, and I don't know how many coaches have MLS experience but these are some guys I'd take a serious look at.

1. Colin Clarke.
Unlike John Limiatis, I believe that he consistently puts out a well organized team every game. Led PRI to semis last CCL season. Northern Ireland international with plenty of English football experience, he also has 3 seasons of managing FC Dallas, leading them to playoffs. He has also managed couple of other North American teams, so he understands American and MLS soccer.

2. Bob Bradley (when he gets fired from US job)
Has plenty of NA and MLS coaching experience. Won MLS Cup with Chicago Fire in 1998. Also has US Open Cup successes. Has managed 3 MLS teams. US MNT job seems a little over his head, but he has enough credentials for an MLS team manager job.

3. Paul Mariner
Currently Steve Nicol's assistant at New England. Former Ipswich Town striker during Bobby Robson days and has represented England at international level. Has played in North America, and has many years of assistant coaching in North America. Is overdue for a shot at head coaching job. You'd figure he picked up a lot of tricks being Steve Nicol's understudy for a long time.

4. Steve Morrow
Former Arsenal defender who only had 2 years of coaching FC Dallas, but I think worth a shot. He was Colin Clarke's assistant and took over after Clarke got fired in 2006.

[Yohan]

and Nicol if losing the MLS cup final is the only criteria???


Kinnear's won MLS cups and dealt with fixture congestion, CCL, Super Liga,

what else do you need?
depends on whether you want to leave a winning team that you built, and go to a team that's rather unstable.

Kinnear is a winner. if I was him, I'd be very hesitant to leave a good gig he has in Houston

[boban]

Wow. Look at the early results.
This guy gets 1/2 a season pretty much and he is shown the door by people on this board. Yet Carver had 1+ years and people were edging on giving him more time and to stay. My how the knives come out quickly now. Interesting hmmmmmmm

[Roogsy]

Cummins does not impress me one bit.

The problem is that there really aren't much in the way of options for us.

I am depressed.

[Super]

It's all about the play-offs now. If Cummins can get us there then he deserves a proper contract. It's not easy to take over at any point into a season, and though we've been inconsistent in the results as of late I personally feel that he's done a fairly decent job. To me his future rests on us making the play-offs. Let's not get carried away and demand ALL the goods this season.

Did any of you see the post-game presser tonight? I love how he called out a journalist who asked if the atmosphere was maybe the reason why TFC lost. He said, and I am paraphrasing: "You're winding me up? We've got 22,000 people watching us at home every game, fantastic atmosphere, and our fans even showed up here tonight". Certainly Cummins knows how to deal with the media - and that's a positive (disregarding results that obviously are more important, but still a side-note to him as a coach and a person as well).

[Super]

Cummins' record (not counting our home win against Chivas on the 22nd of April that he seemed in charge of, but Carver was still technically boss at the time - even though he was away from the bench):

Home:
6 wins - 2 draws - 3 losses

Away:
2 wins - 3 draws - 4 losses

Total:
8 wins - 5 draws - 7 losses

Included are the Canada Cup games as well as the Puerto Rico games. River Plate game was not included.

Below the pure MLS stats under Cummins:

Home:
4 wins - 2 draws - 2 losses

Away:
1 wins - 2 draws - 3 losses

Total:
5 wins - 4 draws - 5 losses

[DangerRed]

Twenty games at the helm.
What say you?

And herein lies the problem: Cummins hasn't even had 20 games at the helm. Do you not remember when Carver got tossed?

The coaching on this team is not the worst. The only direct flaw that I can find in Cummins' approach is that he's letting Dichio sit against really tall defenders and that he's giving Barrett too much time.

You guys want to complain? Focus on the back four, who can't defend a fucking beach ball and who get picked apart like stringy cheese by a USL team. That's not on Cummins. That's on Mo and that's on the salary cap structure.

Here's something I've not heard anyone say in quite a while, if ever: we decided to spend on the attack: Guevara, De Ro, Gerba, Vitti. These guys aren't free. And when you get such "high-profile" signings for your attack, you end up with Garcia being called a "major defensive acquisition."

Bitch about how the limited amount of money is being spent. Don't bitch about Cummins or about the MLSE. Bitch about the guy who decides where the dollars go.

That's it, I'm done.

[Super]

Cummins has officially had 20 games as of tonight - 21 if you count River Plate.

[The Kingpin]

I can never understand why so many are willing to "give the guy a chance". As many have said from day one, this chap is not experienced enough. I ask again, why are we so accepting of this?

TFC has decided to go with Cummins as a money saver vs. getting a real manager with experience. There is a defined history here that I will not get into, but we have to stop listening to the "uber positives" who are always willing to give someone a chance. TFC fans are simply to passive when it comes to demanding success.... Seattle has the right recipe, regardless of the excuses people try to make. They have a leadership team that wants to win, the differences are astounding.

[James Oliphant]

TFC has decided to go with Cummins as a money saver vs. getting a real manager with experience.

The MLS season was already a month old, USL was just starting up, and the European clubs weren't quite done with their seasons. So who exactly were they going to get at the end of April when Carver abandoned this club? Sven?


There is a defined history here that I will not get into, but we have to stop listening to the "uber positives" who are always willing to give someone a chance. TFC fans are simply to passive when it comes to demanding success....Hence the protest following the loss to Vancouver. Yes, I know the reasons for that were at least two-fold, but come on...don't act like that wasn't a tipping point.


Seattle has the right recipe, regardless of the excuses people try to make. They have a leadership team that wants to win, the differences are astounding.You can't just write off things like being able to bring half your roster in from USL (and thus having a cohesive starting unit) or being able to land a homesick coach who was looking to move back to the left coast as "excuses". These are legitimate reasons for Seattle's early success on the pitch...reasons which go beyond their management merely wanting it more.

I'm not a big fan of Cummins, btw. But I keep hearing these arguments (TFC fans are too complacent / MLSE doesn't give a shit about winning), and they always strike me as ridiculous.

[The Kingpin]

The MLS season was already a month old, USL was just starting up, and the European clubs weren't quite done with their seasons. So who exactly were they going to get at the end of April when Carver abandoned this club? Sven?

Hence the protest following the loss to Vancouver. Yes, I know the reasons for that were at least two-fold, but come on...don't act like that wasn't a tipping point.

You can't just write off things like being able to bring half your roster in from USL (and thus having a cohesive starting unit) or being able to land a homesick coach who was looking to move back to the left coast as "excuses". These are legitimate reasons for Seattle's early success on the pitch...reasons which go beyond their management merely wanting it more.

I'm not a big fan of Cummins, btw. But I keep hearing these arguments (TFC fans are too complacent / MLSE doesn't give a shit about winning), and they always strike me as ridiculous.

James, I think you it would be hard for you to believe otherwise. Who wants to believe that the club they support is complacent? The Seattle excuse could explain year one of a franchise, but Toronto is in year three... With three managers to date. Which suggests there is something wrong. I'm not just "bashing" here, I believed since day one that this move was a complacent one. Also, and not that I have a list, but there are always managers on the sidelines. They may not be the cream of that crop, but since when have we had that already. TFC requires a tactician, not a man manager, that must exists in the english speaking stratosphere... All the rest are excuses to me.

I really don't dislike Cummins, he strikes me as harmless, which is probably the issue. He won't speak out as Carver did, which is a relief for TFC Management.

I would break it down as this:

Your first point though valid, is a bit of an excuse that both of us are probably ignorant to whether it's valid.

Second point; not valid in any way since we are in year three. We've had three years with added funds to build a cohesive squad.

Finally, MLSE has a track record of making complacent moves, you know this deep inside. As I said, it's at times difficult to admit that the club you follow just doesn't get it. And remember, I'm also a NUFC supporter...

[Blizzard]

It's all about the play-offs now. If Cummins can get us there then he deserves a proper contract. It's not easy to take over at any point into a season, and though we've been inconsistent in the results as of late I personally feel that he's done a fairly decent job. To me his future rests on us making the play-offs. Let's not get carried away and demand ALL the goods this season.

Did any of you see the post-game presser tonight? I love how he called out a journalist who asked if the atmosphere was maybe the reason why TFC lost. He said, and I am paraphrasing: "You're winding me up? We've got 22,000 people watching us at home every game, fantastic atmosphere, and our fans even showed up here tonight". Certainly Cummins knows how to deal with the media - and that's a positive (disregarding results that obviously are more important, but still a side-note to him as a coach and a person as well).

Here it is: http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=970

Ya, he got lightly persnickity with that reporter didn't he. When the reporter asked why TFC practiced at the artificial turf baseball stadium instead of on the grass of the soccer stadium, he says something to the effect of "if you'd do you're research, you wouldn't ask such silly questions". A bit rough perhaps but considering the circumstances ......

Anyway, the answer was we weren't allowed to practice on the grass field because of the rain so TFC had to go to the artificial turf.

[Cashcleaner]

Unless Cummins can pull a miracle out of his ass and get us past the first round of the playoffs, we're gonna need a new coach coming into 2010.

Oh, and while we're at it, let's spring for a new General Manager.

[Carts]

And herein lies the problem: Cummins hasn't even had 20 games at the helm. Do you not remember when Carver got tossed?


Carver quit.

Insert facepalm here!

[sampace]

Cummins goal was to go far in Champions League and make the playoffs. Based on the month of July he has failed (playoffs we are on the fringe). His tactics and ability to motivate the team is poor. I can't help but think with more Hart, Stephen Hart specifically, this team would have drastically different results. I am tired of seeing this team not play with the ball at their feet for large portions of the game, happy to play long ball. If talent is also an issue we need a house cleaning. I agree that Robbo, Brennan, Garcia must go. Yesterday even Sam Cronin played poorly turning the ball over, too bad he left to join the US as it seems to have made him slip a bit in play. Clean house and axe Mo, coach, and move some of the dead weight. Let the younger players play (come to think of it the last month hasn't been Guevaras best either -- perhaps he should of played for his country in the Gold Cup for the difference having him has made).

[Bloor West FC]

Hes gone, he can't put the right players on when he should. Dichio should have been on earlier. He showed us his chances in the 2nd half in both games. Why wait till near the end?

[TFC_Junky]

Hes gone, he can't put the right players on when he should. Dichio should have been on earlier. He showed us his chances in the 2nd half in both games. Why wait till near the end?

gawd, his subs have been horrid. Down 1-0 and you wait till the 85th to sub danny in?! WTF? at least he threw all the strikers we had at PR last night, just too little too late.

[ecospice]

Started off well, but our consistency has dropped off consderably as his tenure has wore on.

I'm prepared to give him until the end of this season, but if things don't improve, he's first on my list to be replaced.

- Scott

Agreed. Besides, replacing the coach (a second time) during the season will basically signal that management feels the season is lost and that is the wrong message to send to the players - especially given that there is still a good shot at the team making the playoffs...

:scarf:

[dow117]

A Coach is responsible for 2 major things - tactics and motivation... Both were clearly missing in the last 5 games. These guys are not playing with heart at the moment - somethings up !

[MG42]

A Coach is responsible for 2 major things - tactics and motivation... Both were clearly missing in the last 5 games. These guys are not playing with heart at the moment - somethings up !

Bingo! Do your shirt up and get out of town Cummins.

I want to see MoJo work his magic as gaffer again! :lol:

[Pachuco]

Cummins should definately be here till the end of the year. There's no doubt in my mind he's more effective then Carver. However, I put him at the top when I have to blame someone for not scoring on Puerto Rico two games in a row. Their coach completely outclassed our coach. That was apparant.

[Tintin]

Cummins' record (not counting our home win against Chivas on the 22nd of April that he seemed in charge of, but Carver was still technically boss at the time - even though he was away from the bench):

Home:
6 wins - 2 draws - 3 losses

Away:
2 wins - 3 draws - 4 losses

Total:
8 wins - 5 draws - 7 losses

Included are the Canada Cup games as well as the Puerto Rico games. River Plate game was not included.

Below the pure MLS stats under Cummins:

Home:
4 wins - 2 draws - 2 losses

Away:
1 wins - 2 draws - 3 losses

Total:
5 wins - 4 draws - 5 losses


It's the home record the problem...

[maninb]

If we make the playoffs CC stays til next year, if we don't Mo will use him as the scapegoat and he's toast...remember Mo just signed a 2 year extension...he's not going anywhere...

[ensco]

Carver quit.

Insert facepalm here!

Surely nobody believes this fairy tale even now.

[FluSH]

Paul Mariner

[ensco]

CoachGT, I believe you've been told what you say you've been told, but it doesn't matter. The crux of your argument seems to be that you've had personal contact with Carver and some people at TFC. I heard the same thing from my ticket rep too.

Don't take this the wrong way....but so what?

I could not disagree with your assessment of organizations more. Organizations are the biggest peddlers of stories around. The idea that it's a "conspiracy" is laughable - it was done in both Carver's and Mo's interest, that's all. Same as it often is when high-powered people in any profession "resign" for personal reasons. And I have plenty of personal experience in corporate life where "stories" around personnel departures are told and repeated by all, even if they don't really add up. Unlike what you claim, it's incredibly common.

The fact that some smart people think it's believable does nothing for me. Just to remind you, a lot of smart people believed it when they were told that JdG got offered $7 million a year.

Carver got pushed. Without rehashing the story, there was plenty of evidence at the time, based around formation, players used, not attending the press conference post game, things Mo said during and after the fact etc....but those who don't want to see it choose not to see it.

This matters, because the Carver hiring/firing is the biggest mistake Mo has made. It's a major consideration around whether Mo should stay or go. Even if the mods here seem to want to squash any discussion of the subject.

Save the holier-than-thou, this-is-the-way-it-is-because-I-say-so stuff for something, or someone, else.

[Beach_Red]

^ People repeat what they're told if it benefits them. Who does it benefit to say Carver quit? Not Carver, so why would he stick with the story? How could it hurt him now to tell "the truth?"

I can see whre it was in Mo's best interest so he wouldn't have to admit the hiring was a mistake, but how does it benefit Carver - unless you think there was some back door payment or something?

Coaches get fired all the time, there's no stigma attatched to it. But quitting during the season is a tough sell to your next employer. Why go along with something that would damage your reputation?

I know we went over all this before but I agree with you, the Carver hiring was the biggest mistake Mo made. But he drops players all the time when it looks like they were a mistake, why wouldn't he just fire the coach, too?

What are the benefits to the people involved in this mess?

[ensco]

^Mo has always been very focused on gentle exits for anyone he brings over from Europe. Signings from Europe are the hardest part of Mo's job. He doesn't want a reputation for rough handling. So Welsh gets placed back at Blackpool, Samuel leaves the team for personal reasons, Robert has a gig lined up in Greece, Ricketts negotiates his exit on terms that at least somewhat suit him....and Mo didn't fire Carver, Carver quit.

It's all about not developing a bad rep for "churning and burning" people with options, some of whom move their families thousands of miles to come to TFC.

Carver gets to say he quit because MLS is a shit league. It really is a hell of a lot better than getting fired, in terms of getting your next job, notwithstanding the fact that coaches get fired. The story just works better than what would have otherwise got out there.

Carver also wins because he gets some/most/all of the severance he would get for being fired. This I believe is the negotiation that went on while Carver was "in the press box" for the Chivas game. To the extent Carver gets less than his contract called for, Mo gets to be a hero to Anselmi.

[Beach_Red]

^ Okay, that makes sense. If they worked out an exit that satisfies both parties that would seem like a good thing.

What's the problem?

[Darlofletch]

^^He's been winging it for months.

kind of like that 7 year old driving a car on youtube.

Yes he can drive, yes he can obviously stay on the road, but he doesn't have the experience or the responsibility or the decision making skills required to be a safe driver.

Perfect analogy.

[Razor]

Mo and Cummins both have to go.

Then get rid of the dead weight like Brennan,Robbo,Barrett,Garcia,Velez...fuck I could go on and on.

[Darlofletch]

I'd say give Cummins until the end of the season, if only because i can't see the point unless there's someone good lined up, which is unlikely mid season.

If things don't improve, then fire him at the end and go after someone with a little more experience than a few games in England.

Someone earlier in this thread said it's the defence that's the problem and that has nothing to do with Cummins. I'd say the fact that we've consistently given up leads, consistently let in late goals, and we've let in 3 goals in over half of our away games under Cummins (4 out of 6 in mls, 4 out of 9 all together) are problems with coaching. having the talent and imagination to score isn't something that can be taught, surely to god, defending is a coachable skill. Puerto Rico certainly look well organised at the back, we never have, I'd say that's down to coaching.

[ensco]

^ Okay, that makes sense. If they worked out an exit that satisfies both parties that would seem like a good thing.

What's the problem?

This is the right question.

For me, the problem is that the exaggerated reflex to say "figuring all this out is unproductive and disrespectful to Carver, a guy we all like" leads to a lack of critical assessment of the colossal blunder Mo made in bringing in an untested coach, who, while "like-able", didn't really have a clue what he was doing, and had serious problems coping with the job's demands.

Mo cannot have done any real due diligence on the coach of his team. When we accept the fiction that Carver quit, Mo comes off as more of a victim, an innocent, and much less the cause of the problem.

[mmmikey]

Cummins gained ALOT of trust really fast because he was so damn personable and a great interview. Was a breath of fresh air after the JC tirades and tongue lashings. He is a great "face" of the club.

As far as his actual job performance with regards to results on the field, it has been abyssmal. It was hit right on the head within this thread. It's about motivation and tactics. It doesn't matter what players are on a team, if the coach can't motivate them or assemble the proper game plan to suit his squad, they will fail.

Look at Spurs last year. Under Ramos they started the year a horrible mess. Lineup changed constantly, tactics were not bringing out the best in the team, and the players were no longer motivated by their manager. Make the change to Redknapp and it was the tale of two seasons. 8 games 2 pts under Ramos, 30 games 49 pts under Redknapp. (Of course there was also the change from Coach/Sporting Director to the single manager format. Hrmmmmmmm).

The lack of adjustments have disturbed me for weeks. You don't see an adjustment in tactics midgame, or between games (unless there are injuries). Whatever the gameplan is at the start of the game, it's the same one at the end of the game. Subs are often times off the mark, but worst of all, there is usually little to no tactical change involved. Extra forward, same gameplan.. Extra defender, same gameplan. I cannot recall a game when I have seen them purposely target a particular weakness in an opponent, let alone adjust midway. If DeRo starts a game marked into the stone ages.. he ends the game marked into the stone ages, because they will not adjust.

Last night's game was almost a carbon copy gameplan wise from the first leg. When you need goals on the road, starting 2 DM's and a lone striker isn't going to cut it. Particularly when PRI looked comfortable defending it already.

[mmmikey]

Someone earlier in this thread said it's the defence that's the problem and that has nothing to do with Cummins. I'd say the fact that we've consistently given up leads, consistently let in late goals, and we've let in 3 goals in over half of our away games under Cummins (4 out of 6 in mls, 4 out of 9 all together) are problems with coaching. having the talent and imagination to score isn't something that can be taught, surely to god, defending is a coachable skill. Puerto Rico certainly look well organised at the back, we never have, I'd say that's down to coaching.

totally. when up 1-0 there needs to be a tactical change. hold up the ball. maintain possession. waste time.. make the other team press and tire themselves out. when TFC holds the lead, they look like they are down 2-0 as they longball it up the field or take frantic runs at the defense.. often times losing possession.

it's ok to pass it around the park for 30 minutes guys.. ill take that and a win then an exciting 1-1 or 1-2 loss anyday.

[MG42]

Cummins gained ALOT of trust really fast because he was so damn personable and a great interview. Was a breath of fresh air after the JC tirades and tongue lashings. He is a great "face" of the club.




http://web.mlsnet.com/imgs/bios/photos/cummins_chris_bio.jpg

TRUST ME

[Beach_Red]

This is the right question.

For me, the problem is that the exaggerated reflex to say "figuring all this out is unproductive and disrespectful to Carver, a guy we all like" leads to a lack of critical assessment of the colossal blunder Mo made in bringing in an untested coach, who, while "like-able", didn't really have a clue what he was doing, and had serious problems coping with the job's demands.

Mo cannot have done any real due diligence on the coach of his team. When we accept the fiction that Carver quit, Mo comes off as more of a victim, and less the cause of the problem.


You're right, it sure looks like there was little due dilligence. Carver seems a personable guy and he probably gives a great interview and has great references but hiring him was sold as a "sure thing," and not the giant risk it was.

Too bad Mo can't pick coaches like he can draft picks.... Oh well, maybe next time.

[ua-kozak_TFC]

Unless Cummins can pull a miracle out of his ass and get us past the first round of the playoffs, we're gonna need a new coach coming into 2010.

Oh, and while we're at it, let's spring for a new General Manager.

+1 ONLY IN OUR DREAMS... it`s nice to dream sometimes though

[ua-kozak_TFC]

^ People repeat what they're told if it benefits them. Who does it benefit to say Carver quit? Not Carver, so why would he stick with the story? How could it hurt him now to tell "the truth?"

I can see whre it was in Mo's best interest so he wouldn't have to admit the hiring was a mistake, but how does it benefit Carver - unless you think there was some back door payment or something?

Coaches get fired all the time, there's no stigma attatched to it. But quitting during the season is a tough sell to your next employer. Why go along with something that would damage your reputation?

I know we went over all this before but I agree with you, the Carver hiring was the biggest mistake Mo made. But he drops players all the time when it looks like they were a mistake, why wouldn't he just fire the coach, too?

What are the benefits to the people involved in this mess?
LOL I think its the other way around... You going to tell me that ON YOUR resume it would look better that you got FIRED... than QUIT DUE TO PERSONAL REASONS.... LOL... how do you come up with that?

[Beach_Red]

LOL I think its the other way around... You going to tell me that ON YOUR resume it would look better that you got FIRED... than QUIT DUE TO PERSONAL REASONS.... LOL... how do you come up with that?

We're not talking about my resume, we're talking about coaches. Getting fired doesn't stop coaches from getting hired, it really does happen all the time.

When your dreams come true and we get a new manager for TFC it will more likely be someone who has been fired somewhere else and not someone who quit in the middle of the season for, "pesonal reasons."

I get this from history, it's what happens in sports. Or, I should say North American sports because that's all I really know. But I can't think of a North American coach who quit in the middle of a season for "personal reasons" and was quickly rehired, but I can come up with dozens who were fired and then hired again right away. Maybe it's different in European soccer and coaches quit in the middle of the season all the time, I don't kow.

[mmmikey]

coaches get fired and can lay blame on not having enough time, or that the management staff was unreasonable, or they weren't given the "say" they wanted.

if a coach walks out mid season, its entirely different. you walked out.. and unless there was an illness in your family or personally, your going to have a huge mark against u.

relating the sports world to a regular professions is a waste of time.

[TFC RuKKuS RPB]

Cummins sucks BALLS!!!

[ensco]

We're not talking about my resume, we're talking about coaches. Getting fired doesn't stop coaches from getting hired, it really does happen all the time.

When your dreams come true and we get a new manager for TFC it will more likely be someone who has been fired somewhere else and not someone who quit in the middle of the season for, "pesonal reasons."

I get this from history, it's what happens in sports. Or, I should say North American sports because that's all I really know. But I can't think of a North American coach who quit in the middle of a season for "personal reasons" and was quickly rehired, but I can come up with dozens who were fired and then hired again right away. Maybe it's different in European soccer and coaches quit in the middle of the season all the time, I don't kow.

I think the difference in this particular case rests with the shaky stature of MLS in world football. Carver is hoping that saying "I quit because the league sucks" might work over there.

But your general point is correct - it wouldn't work if Carver were trying to get hired in the same league, or at a similar level.

[TOBOR !]

Mo would be foolish to not be looking about for someone better than Cummins. That said, this all still falls within the '5 year' plan, so regardless of how we end up this year, Cummins will still be around next. However, I suspect if noted improvement isn't made over this year (either in regards to consistency or performance in the CCL) then I reckon you'll see Cummins out the door with MoJo finishing the season behind the bench.

[giambac]

Twenty games at the helm.
What say you?


Bring back Carver:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::fac epalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::fac epalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::fac epalm:

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

Shit !! Shit !! Shit !! And More Shit !! Next !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TFC FORZA RPB]

Based on last nights game their is really no team management as the club has been playing roughly every 3 days since mid July, all the roughly the same 11 all starting and of course they will get tired, it would have been nice to see Guevara comming on in the second half instead of starting as he was returning from injury, seeing as Barrett didnt get the start, Danny should have.

If you are or will be a coach in the very near future, please fax, email or call TFC

Thank you

oh and by the way it would be nice to watch them play during the playoffs, and no i dont mean international or national friendly's

[Shway]

make cummins the reserve team head coach..



oh wait there is no reserve team

[Section 117]

I personally think that certain desicions are made above him or the there is pressure to play certain players probably due to their salaries. I have spoken to some of the players and they like playing for him.

Cause if not he must be retarded because how else do you explain Danny playing garabage minutes only??? If it weren't for Dero & Guevara we would be SOL

[standFree]

Knee-jerk reactions always make for amusing reading.

Someone seriously suggests Colin Clarke as a replacement after watching his team play some of the worst soccer I've ever had the misfortune of watching. God help us if we ever sink to that level.

[Davenport]

Cummins is out of his depth.
Got the job by default.
He's an assistant at best and should probably be coaching the Academy.

[Cashcleaner]

Cummins is out of his depth.
Got the job by default.
He's an assistant at best and should probably be coaching the Academy.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I mean, I don't try to be all that hard on him because he basically had the job thrust into his lap. I think someday he could become a very good coach, but he's still learning and we need someone with more experience and confidence in their abilities.

[Lennon]

team could use a break too.

this was a 2 nill win on any other night.

No offence but I'm kind of tired of people saying this ... this has been the story of this team since day one ... dominating posession and outchansing your opponents counts for nothing if you don't get results ...

As for Cummins ... I dunno ... let's not fire him until we have an experienced MLS coach lined up ... enough hiring from within

When does the transfer window close?

:frown5:

[Ossington Mental Youth]

.

As for Cummins ... I dunno ... let's not fire him until we have an experienced MLS coach lined up ... enough hiring from within

When does the transfer window close?

:frown5:

yeah thats key too

[raj100]

lol cant blame cummins, mostly the players fault if you ask me...
the problem with tfc's game is that many of the players cannot wrap there heads around, becuase of there basic lack of football IQ, players like wynne, barret, gerba are not smart enough to play the passing game that guevara, dero, vitti play... thus reverting to long ball... you rarely see guevara just hoofing the ball down the field unlike many tfc players... i feel that this isnt cummins fault, maybe a bit of mo jonhstons fault...

[Pachuco]

lol cant blame cummins, mostly the players fault if you ask me...
the problem with tfc's game is that many of the players cannot wrap there heads around, becuase of there basic lack of football IQ, players like wynne, barret, gerba are not smart enough to play the passing game that guevara, dero, vitti play... thus reverting to long ball... you rarely see guevara just hoofing the ball down the field unlike many tfc players... i feel that this isnt cummins fault, maybe a bit of mo jonhstons fault...

Interesting, so Gerba is the source of the long ball problem. Who does he long ball it to? back to his defense?

If you couldn't see that our biggest problem with PR was purely tactical then I'm not sure we watched the same games.

[Boris]

Interesting, so Gerba is the source of the long ball problem. Who does he long ball it to? back to his defense?

If you couldn't see that our biggest problem with PR was purely tactical then I'm not sure we watched the same games.

sooo true.
ive been saying this since the Houston loss away...we are playing with NO TACTICS. Now the players seem to have loss faith in the system and are trying to win the game themselves....

[raj100]

Interesting, so Gerba is the source of the long ball problem. Who does he long ball it to? back to his defense?

If you couldn't see that our biggest problem with PR was purely tactical then I'm not sure we watched the same games.

i think you need to read my post over... i didnt say gerba is the source... i honestly think that he is the player that is being hurt the most, becuase he isnt a target man.. his lack of football IQ is shown when he doesnt come deep for the ball and contribute to the build up play rather than waiting on the shoulder of the last defender...

PR wasnt purely tactical... im not cummins biggest fan, but he gets alot of unecessary stick on the this board... PR was simply the players fault... cummins can preach and preach, but if the players arent playing with heart, waht can he do? and i dont think any1 can deny the fact that tfc had no heart against PR...

[jloome]

Interesting, so Gerba is the source of the long ball problem. Who does he long ball it to? back to his defense?

If you couldn't see that our biggest problem with PR was purely tactical then I'm not sure we watched the same games.

"Purely tactical"?

Yes, we lost in part because of poor defensive tactics. But it's never purely tactical when, over two games, you have 37 shots and can't score.

And before the anti-Gerba people start talking about his belly, he's had three shots since he joined the team, has put two of them on net and has scored on one of them. So belly or not, there's nothing to bellyache about.

[mmmikey]

And before the anti-Gerba people start talking about his belly, he's had three shots since he joined the team, has put two of them on net and has scored on one of them. So belly or not, there's nothing to bellyache about.

his "belly" is definitely going to haunt him throughout his career. it's almost like he needs to score twice as many goals as a slender player would because there will always be the thought out there "if he was skinnier, he could score more!".

been frustrated for him.. expecting lots from him, but he is getting so little help. those few chances he gets, im always on my feet ready for the goal though. :)

[raj100]

And before the anti-Gerba people start talking about his belly, he's had three shots since he joined the team, has put two of them on net and has scored on one of them. So belly or not, there's nothing to bellyache about.

yeah but you have to take the shots into consideration aswell, his goal against colombus wasnt the hardest finish in the world... but i will give with this, the build play between him and barrett was top class..

i think gerba has potential to be a good secondary goal scorer, i dont think he can be trusted to be tfc's top goal scorer, he doesnt have the skill to do it in my opinion, i.e his poor poor first touch, lack of pace etc. things that are necessary in a top striker ... i think that everyone can see why MK dons didnt want to keep ali g...

[mmmikey]

i dont know raj.. i see gerba as the type of striker that would be great paired up with a skillful second striker. someone who can run at defenders, create, interchange with him, while scoring goals as well (a pato type if u will). having a player like gerba who can pick up the garbage and put it away would be a great combo. so in a way, i would agree with saying he shouldn't be our top striker, but i can see him being our top goal scorer.

now that i read it, my description of a 2nd striker to work with gerba sounds alot like DeRo. he just seems like a hybrid of a midfielder, winger and secondary striker to me.. not sure he is the secondary striker that will bring out the best in gerba though (disclaimer: IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM DO I WANT TO REPLACE DERO :).

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Why not give Dasovic a chance at the helm... this after all seems to be a proving ground for 1st time managers...


god NO...the hiring of Canadian managers has not been to much of a success at most levels.....Dale Mitchell, Frank Yallop ( ok he has the MLS\
cups) but still not wanted here, lets keep the focus on European or maybe if a change is need? a south american one...no domestic managers.

[raj100]

i dont know raj.. i see gerba as the type of striker that would be great paired up with a skillful second striker. someone who can run at defenders, create, interchange with him, while scoring goals as well (a pato type if u will). having a player like gerba who can pick up the garbage and put it away would be a great combo. so in a way, i would agree with saying he shouldn't be our top striker, but i can see him being our top goal scorer.

great post, buh i have to disagree, i cant see him being the top goal scorer in this tfc side unless he gets alot faster, and improves his touch (which are two of his biggest problems in my opinion). the problem about him being a guy to pick up the 'garbage' is that there has to be garbage to pick up... and tfc doesnt seem to make those kinds of chances lately..

im not here hating on gerba... its just what i think :scarf:

[mmmikey]

great post, buh i have to disagree, i cant see him being the top goal scorer in this tfc side unless he gets alot faster, and improves his touch (which are two of his biggest problems in my opinion). the problem about him being a guy to pick up the 'garbage' is that there has to be garbage to pick up... and tfc doesnt seem to make those kinds of chances lately..

im not here hating on gerba... its just what i think :scarf:

yeah u got me there. :)

all the low quality crosses into the box aren't creating the kind of chances we (and gerba) really need. the times when they work it in close and make a good run at the net, u can really see how he can be lethal. this team just can't seem to break down a determined defense.. :(

[Technorgasm]

Like Steve Nicol.:D


ONE WORD:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/3100317743_ab4ff76e96_o.jpg

RED LEGEND

468 appearances, 46 goals

record for consecutive appearances in the conference championship with six

[this is joga]

let me get this right... when TFC loses its Cummins doing.
although, when TFC wins (the one win that comes to mind is the 6-1 MTL win) its not Cummins doing... this guy can't win!?

i'm not 100% confident with CC -- but i am happier to have him than JC running this squad. give CC till the end of the season before we all shit on him. i'm pretty sure if we get into the playoffs and (god forbid) win the MLS Cup - everyone will be singing his praise.

[Marco2K]

Cummins is not a real coach. He is a good helper.thats it.

[DichioTFC]

CC picked up the reigns mid-season and led the team to the 6-1 Canadian Championship victory. We're still on the verge of a playoff spot, as much as the pessimism of the board would like you to think otherwise. We need some creativity and flair in the final third, but he's done well thus far and I think he's met expectations.

That being said, he hasn't exceeded expectations and the playoffs will be a big indicator. If we can advance to the second round, CC should be safe. If we lose in the first round or, heaven forbid!, we dont make it in, then CC's head should be on a pike in front of BMO... or terminated, whichever makes people happier.

[J .]

I like him, some of the players haven't finished or lived up to billing. We also have a rookie keeper, no kasey keller at all, our backline is still unfinished.

There are plenty of games left, I think we have a playoff team here. They will need Gerba to poach, if he does they win, if not then we wont. Barrett is not done, he is improving as a wide forward and with DeRo, el lobo and Cronin we look good.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Cummons deserves another term as manager, the supporters over expectations this year was something a first year manager could not get done...we should be demanding playoff action next season..TFC is not a playoff quality team...sorry to burst bubbles but thats a fact..it would be a quick 2 leg defeat and out, since winning on the road is not out strong point, neither is winning at home..until we can find a quality goalscorer and another top defender being competitive in the playoffs
is another season off.

[Section 117]

The jury is out IMO lets see what he does from now till the end of the season as I am not sure if he can handle being the main guy ala Carver they are both good assistants.

Secondly, he needs to work on his in game management or lack their of cause he leaves a lot to be desired. He leaves Dichio on the bench way to long and when DD actually plays we create things??? Conicidence I think not

[trane]

Cummons deserves another term as manager, the supporters over expectations this year was something a first year manager could not get done...we should be demanding playoff action next season..TFC is not a playoff quality team...sorry to burst bubbles but thats a fact..it would be a quick 2 leg defeat and out, since winning on the road is not out strong point, neither is winning at home..until we can find a quality goalscorer and another top defender being competitive in the playoffs
is another season off.

Do not change you stance, you shoudl demand playoffs in year five. You have been clear on this, and should stick to your guns.

[Shway]

English Coach can't teach a South American style of play,
and with the crop of players that we have, it would seem we could use a coach who coachs the south american style.

[Northern Soul]

I'd like to see him finish out the year, and make the decision at that point. I'd prefer that we hire an experienced MLS coach with some success in the league.

[Cambridge_Red]

Fire Mo to start..

[Mikey]

I highly doubt Mo will be going anywhere othrr than further up ML$E, especially if he sells off another player for big bucks this offseason.

Chris Cummins is likely to be Chris Go-ings if there's no play offs this year, simply because shit rolls downhill and he's at the bottom. It already looks as though the north stand will be strategically used to buy off SG's protests about how shit the team is. Thats what I'do too if I was ML$E. :canada:

[scooter]

as usual a lot of expert opinions from unqualified judges

give chris the job of coach so he has the confidence he needs to get the job done none of this interm shite and then let him sink or swim

my 2 cents