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RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-03-2009, 11:21 AM
Suggestion....

Would it be possible to reserve the enitre north end temp stand for RPB for ONE GAME!...

In exchange to TFC all RPB will surrender there tickets where ever the RPB sit throughout the stadium....and be givin a seat in the TEMP STAND!

I would like to see what kind of atmosphere it would bring.....mabey a TRIAL run for the FUTURE!

thoughts!!

:)

4evared
08-03-2009, 11:27 AM
What a great idea. I would want Toronto to be playing facing northwards in the second half though.


Suggestion....

Would it be possible to resereve the enitre north end temp stand for RPR for ONE GAME!...

In exchange to TFC all RPB will surrender there tickets where ever the RPB sit throughout the stadium....and be givin a seat in the TEMP STAND!

It would like to see what kind of atmosphere it would bring.....mabey a TRIAL run for the FUTURE!

thoughts!!

:)

dupont
08-03-2009, 11:36 AM
That is a good idea.

Roogsy
08-03-2009, 11:37 AM
RPR?

Belfast_Boy
08-03-2009, 11:38 AM
Good idea, but will that temp stand be able to hold up to the abuse?

I_AM_CANADIAN
08-03-2009, 11:51 AM
Who's going to occupy your old seats, though? It'd be kind of short notice, and also, I don't think that temp. stand is big enough for all the RPBs in BMO. ;)

Roogsy
08-03-2009, 12:10 PM
They said it was able to hold 900 people.

It's just big enough. :D

flatpicker
08-03-2009, 12:13 PM
it's an interesting idea for sure.
I'm not sure what the logistical issues would be.

the only issue I have... I don't want to give the FO the impression that a 900 seat stand is all we need in a long term situation.
But this would be a decent test run.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-03-2009, 12:53 PM
They said it was able to hold 900 people.

It's just big enough. :D

If we good get 900 of us in the same stand at BMO....i think you all know what would happen!:drum::drum::drum:

ONe CAPO(FLUSH) dead center!!!:drinking:

Roogsy
08-03-2009, 12:53 PM
What is RPR?

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-03-2009, 12:55 PM
What is RPR?


corrected!:D

Roogsy
08-03-2009, 12:57 PM
Ah stink, I dunno why I didn't clue in. Sorry.

Sab0tage
08-03-2009, 01:39 PM
I sat in the north end for the PR game, and I honestly don't think it would be strong enough to hold 900+ people jumping and moving for 90 minutes. They were just like bleachers you'd see at a small baseball field or something.

Roogsy
08-03-2009, 01:42 PM
I sat in the north end for the PR game, and I honestly don't think it would be strong enough to hold 900+ people jumping and moving for 90 minutes. They were just like bleachers you'd see at a small baseball field or something.

Oh man, we'd bust that thing up in the first 20 minutes. We wouldn't even get a chance to get to Dichio 24! :lol:

prizby
08-03-2009, 03:17 PM
good suggestion,

practical?

peterboroughtfcfan
08-03-2009, 06:41 PM
I like this idea. I've noticed in the last few away games just how hardcore the NEE guys are, they sing for the full 90 and are much better at coordination than the South is (yes I know they have a smaller area to cover). It would be a good learning experience for the South and would focus all the supporters in one general area.

james
06-05-2012, 09:15 AM
South End is to divided and broken up, unless the South End tickets are given to supporter grouups to sell the atmosphere will never improve. It is time for all supporters to move and unite in the North End!!

james
06-05-2012, 09:18 AM
it's an interesting idea for sure.
I'm not sure what the logistical issues would be.

the only issue I have... I don't want to give the FO the impression that a 900 seat stand is all we need in a long term situation.
But this would be a decent test run.

that is true, if the North End became the new supporters section and the supporters Unite together like i think we would it wouldn't take long before the North End is to full and hundreds can not get into the North End...but the way things are now in the south End, it is the only way the support will improve!

__wowza
06-05-2012, 10:00 AM
that is true, if the North End became the new supporters section and the supporters Unite together like i think we would it wouldn't take long before the North End is to full and hundreds/thousand can not get into the North End...but the way things are now in the south End, it is the only way the support will improve!

agreed and disagree. it'd be great to have a united supporter voice (oh god, can you imagine the massive on BOTH sides!?) but they'd obviously have to move the away stand. my main concern is with banners. there's no way in hell they'd let banners drape over their previous boxes.

exec, is there any update on this?
ive lurked around a bit and i cant find any "we're looking into it" or "this issue is dead" posts.

Red Rat
06-05-2012, 10:13 AM
it will never happen.

Nestease
06-05-2012, 11:18 AM
It happened for the Canada game. USA supporters filled close to half of the North Stand. They draped their banners down and everything. Worked quite well.

MartinUtd
06-05-2012, 11:37 AM
It would certainly revamp dying atmosphere. MLSE would be fools to not consider it.

How exactly is dialog between SG's and the FO facilitated anyway? I imagine there's more to it then their once-in-a-blue-moon town hall meetings.

dmacd
06-05-2012, 11:44 AM
I have tickets in 132, row 1 (north end behind the net) and have been a Season Ticket Holder since year 1. I believe the season ticket holder base in my section has gone from 1 row to 15+ rows this year after they dropped the ticket prices this year. I love my seats and have a core group of good fans around me that do also.

Are you guy proposing that the team kick us out of our seats so the RPB members can move in? I'm quite certain that you guys would stage the mother of all protests (and/or cancel your season tickets) if the team did the same thing to you.

Fort York Redcoat
06-05-2012, 01:05 PM
I have tickets in 132, row 1 (north end behind the net) and have been a Season Ticket Holder since year 1. I believe the season ticket holder base in my section has gone from 1 row to 15+ rows this year after they dropped the ticket prices this year. I love my seats and have a core group of good fans around me that do also.

Are you guy proposing that the team kick us out of our seats so the RPB members can move in? I'm quite certain that you guys would stage the mother of all protests (and/or cancel your season tickets) if the team did the same thing to you.

He's proposing that all the Supporters Groups move there. It's not a new suggestion and you've brought up one of the biggest issues with the proposition.

Phil
06-05-2012, 01:20 PM
He's proposing that all the Supporters Groups move there. It's not a new suggestion and you've brought up one of the biggest issues with the proposition.

Pretty much, yup.

There was a window that it might have happened but TFC do not consult us on pricing stuff and in the past it was way too much to even consider going there. On top of that we had a vote and the majority of members voiced concern over a relocation to that stand.

The best solution is to give control of a section to a supporters group but the legality and complexities of such a move make it very hard. Its always talked about and known that we would love to have control over our own section.

spe18
06-05-2012, 02:34 PM
Pretty much, yup.

There was a window that it might have happened but TFC do not consult us on pricing stuff and in the past it was way too much to even consider going there. On top of that we had a vote and the majority of members voiced concern over a relocation to that stand.

The best solution is to give control of a section to a supporters group but the legality and complexities of such a move make it very hard. Its always talked about and known that we would love to have control over our own section.

Ahhh, control of our own section, just like how Philadephia, Portland, Houston, Colorado, Kansas Ciry and to a lesser extent, Seattle, Chicago and Montreal (to name a few) seem to have control of their sections!

__wowza
06-05-2012, 02:44 PM
Ahhh, control of our own section, just like how Philadephia, Portland, Houston, Colorado, Kansas Ciry and to a lesser extent, Seattle, Chicago and Montreal (to name a few) seem to have control of their sections!

well, from my talks with the union fans, it's an accountability thing. you show your card to gain entrance to the section, and if something comes up, you're asked to present it. if you refuse, they deal with you old country way. it's kinda like the suggestion i had about having an "RPB rep" for gameday issues. im sick of clowns coming over, starting shit and then hearing about how it's all on us.


Are you guy proposing that the team kick us out of our seats so the RPB members can move in? I'm quite certain that you guys would stage the mother of all protests (and/or cancel your season tickets) if the team did the same thing to you.

dmacd, immediately going on the offensive. nice!

http://politicaljesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/jumptoconclusions2xk14.jpg

prizby
06-05-2012, 03:51 PM
South End is to divided and broken up, unless the South End tickets are given to supporter grouups to sell the atmosphere will never improve. It is time for all supporters to move and unite in the North End!!

2 issues

there are already a bunch of season tickets in the north stand
price

james
06-05-2012, 04:08 PM
well obviously its hard since there are fans already in the North Stand, so what do you do? my only option i could think of is offer the current North End season ticket holders to remain where they are or to relocate to another section. Its the same problem we would have in the south end, supporters are divided in the South End and supporters really want more of a propper supporters end with more control over ticket sales but every single section of the stadium has current season ticket holders.

as for price, North End was over priced from day 1. It was more then half empty every game when that stand first opened up. Id really like them to drop the prices more, when you look at the bad performance we deserve it, and with less and less demand for tickets it would make sense, but the way MLSE are thats unlikely, they never like to drop prices no matter what!

All this said tho, i really don't think MLSE even care enough to try helping supporter groups move to a new section at BMO field.

prizby
06-05-2012, 04:23 PM
well obviously its hard since there are fans already in the North Stand, so what do you do? my only option i could think of is offer the current North End season ticket holders to remain where they are or to relocate to another section. Its the same problem we would have in the south end, supporters are divided in the South End and supporters really want more of a propper supporters end with more control over ticket sales but every single section of the stadium has current season ticket holders.

as for price, North End was over priced from day 1. It was more then half empty every game when that stand first opened up. Id really like them to drop the prices more, when you look at the bad performance we deserve it, and with less and less demand for tickets it would make sense, but the way MLSE are thats unlikely, they never like to drop prices no matter what!

All this said tho, i really don't think MLSE even care enough to try helping supporter groups move to a new section at BMO field.

still doesn't solve the issue of the supporters needing to have control of the supporters end if they are given the choice to stay;

simply put, too many times RPB and other TFC supporters have been blamed and punished for actions of guys who show up for their 1 game a year after having watch the Football Factories, Green Street, and YouTube Videos and decided it'd be "cool" and "awesome" to have their own "hooligan day out" without ever really having to face the concequences and instead its these people that ruin the supporters experience for the supporters that are there game in and game out, who make the flags, sing the songs, beat the drum, put up the banners and give it their damn all to support TFC!

swan
06-05-2012, 04:39 PM
offer people in the south to move to the north for south prices.. they are there cause they are the cheap seats offer them something of the same price and i'm sure plenty will move

Pookie
06-05-2012, 05:32 PM
offer people in the south to move to the north for south prices.. they are there cause they are the cheap seats offer them something of the same price and i'm sure plenty will move

I'm in the North End now. I really like the vantage point and my kids benefit from the sloped seating in that they can see over someone in front. For the most part, you aren't staring into the Sun on late evening games either as it dips over section 226-227. Why should I move?

What I'm going to say next may sound inflammatory but it is fundamental to this question. What would be different about an united voice in the North End vs the South?

And whose voice? RPB? U-Sector? Tribal Rhythm Nation? NEE?

Seems to me that you are asking the FO to set aside a section of the stadium for supposed like minded individuals to enjoy the game the way they want. And you currently have a a section of the stadium set aside for like minded individuals to enjoy the game the way they want. In fact, with 111 and 110, this was expanded. Whose fault is it that the "south end is in decline?"

Tourists, casuals, scalpers, etc will all find their way to whichever section is designated as a supporters section as it is the cheapest ticket and likely the only one moving on the secondary ticket market. These folks also come because they want to be a part of it. To this point, not one SG has been successful in engaging more individuals to get involved in numbers that will make a difference to the atmosphere on an ongoing basis.

In 5+ years, the RBP haven't influenced any section other than 111. U-Sector can barely influence anything above the middle of 114. People want TRN to shut up and NEE is virtually non-existent this year.

Heck, we had more unity in early year 2 Columbus road matches than we've had at BMO (Dichio TIFO, Streamer TIFO and a few other moments aside).

Make what we have work first and then start talking about preferred locations.

Fort York Redcoat
06-05-2012, 06:59 PM
Make what we have work first and then start talking about preferred locations.

Pook has a point. If we can't unite where we are and we aren't united on moving then what magic will pissing off a bunch of paying ticket holders in the North presently do?

The North is nice but I don't prefer it and would only moved if there was no other alternative to staying and growing what we have.

Alonso
06-05-2012, 08:53 PM
South End is to divided and broken up, unless the South End tickets are given to supporter grouups to sell the atmosphere will never improve. It is time for all supporters to move and unite in the North End!!


You won't be able to read this thread/poll because you aren't a member but for others who are RPB members here you go: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?28775-North-Stand&highlight=north+stand

Basically a majority of members voted for this, and there was lots of good debate and ideas on the subject.

This was also a time when most of the North Stand was vacant of season ticket holders so it was prime time for this to happen. Many said the prices were too high and that they wouldn't drop them for us so we didn't act. But they dropped them the following year and the opportunity was lost.

TorontoGooner
06-06-2012, 05:11 AM
Let's give it a try

__wowza
06-06-2012, 07:51 AM
let's build a new south end.
let's make it look like the north end.
let's give it to supporters.
let's give it a roof.
let's uhh.. fuck i don't know.

PureTFC
06-06-2012, 08:05 AM
Take TRN with you wherever you all go please and thank you.

prizby
06-06-2012, 08:22 AM
let's build a new south end.
let's make it look like the north end.
let's give it to supporters.
let's give it a roof.
let's uhh.. fuck i don't know.

spend money that we don't have because neither mlse or the city of toronto are going to do it for us

T-boy
06-06-2012, 08:57 AM
It would be awesome to have vocal supporters at BOTH ends of the field, for sure. BUT, unless you have a roof, there is really no way of containing the noise genarated by a single area of the field, no matter if its the corner, or right behind the penalty area.

I've always been in 113, where its NOISY. But, I've also gone to other area of the stadium, and the noise from 113/112 is lost anywhere else in the stadium. I was in 119 for the Canada USA game last weekend, and the noise from 112/113 was almost nothing from 119.

james
06-06-2012, 09:47 AM
I just remembered a few years back when Aston Villa hired Martin O'Neil and the away supporters use to be located in the North stand behind one of the goals...Martin O'Neil did not like this as he thought it effected the team since the away fans were right behind there own goal. O'Neil requested the away fans be moved to the side stand which is the Doug Ellis stand located from about the corner flag to almost mid field, this is where the away fans are now located. Since about 3,000 seats are saved for away fans when they moved them to the Doug Ellis stand there must of already been some Villa season ticket holders located in that section of the stand...my point is i wonder what they said/did for the Villa fans that had to be moved else where?? Could it work at BMO Field??

Chris Wren
06-06-2012, 11:24 AM
Pookie. Bang on, 100% right. I would add that winning will help with any atmospheric concerns. It's simply not a novelty anymore. The surprising amount of enthusiasm fed on itself originally. Moving around the stadium and dividing the support even further will only serve to satisfy, if that's possible, the RPB who feel a need to be isolated from other supporters.....which is somewhat offensive to everyone in the South end, 111 and 110 who stand, support and cheer for 90 minutes but isn't a card carrying RPB.

toronto toronto
06-06-2012, 12:28 PM
I am reading a lot of valuable feedback in terms of suggestions and perspectives in this thread in which are all steps in the right direction. This specifically pertains where want to go or be as supporters i.e. north end relocation, stay put in the south end etc.

I am going to throw something out there...Everything can be tweaked; again this is just a suggestion….

We could possibly create a team to run with this in terms of scoping it out in the initial stages. Create say a team of 4 individuals within RBP. It would be beneficial that these individuals are logical, can think out side of the box and the ability to articulate. Ask the other supporter groups U-Sector/NEE/TRN to do the same. Start meetings on a bi-weekly basis between the groups or how frequently they chose. The teams can take a SWOT analyses approach as the same logic will apply. Outline the suggestions/visions between the groups that have been brought forward or would like to see accomplished. Then outline all the positives, negatives, opportunities and challenges of the potential options/visions.

Come back with the findings by a certain date and present this to a limited audience in which it would just consist of the top dogs of each group. From there, the top dogs can digest/dissect this amongst themselves and come to a decision of the best option (if at all) to move forward with.

If we were looking to implement something and collectively amongst the other supporters groups, especially for next season as this will not happen overnight, the ball needs to get rolling. If we want to achieve something, we will have a better opportunity to do this if the proper steps are taken.

RedRum
06-06-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm in the North End now. I really like the vantage point and my kids benefit from the sloped seating in that they can see over someone in front. For the most part, you aren't staring into the Sun on late evening games either as it dips over section 226-227. Why should I move?

What I'm going to say next may sound inflammatory but it is fundamental to this question. What would be different about an united voice in the North End vs the South?

And whose voice? RPB? U-Sector? Tribal Rhythm Nation? NEE?

Seems to me that you are asking the FO to set aside a section of the stadium for supposed like minded individuals to enjoy the game the way they want. And you currently have a a section of the stadium set aside for like minded individuals to enjoy the game the way they want. In fact, with 111 and 110, this was expanded. Whose fault is it that the "south end is in decline?"

Tourists, casuals, scalpers, etc will all find their way to whichever section is designated as a supporters section as it is the cheapest ticket and likely the only one moving on the secondary ticket market. These folks also come because they want to be a part of it. To this point, not one SG has been successful in engaging more individuals to get involved in numbers that will make a difference to the atmosphere on an ongoing basis.

In 5+ years, the RBP haven't influenced any section other than 111. U-Sector can barely influence anything above the middle of 114. People want TRN to shut up and NEE is virtually non-existent this year.

Heck, we had more unity in early year 2 Columbus road matches than we've had at BMO (Dichio TIFO, Streamer TIFO and a few other moments aside).

Make what we have work first and then start talking about preferred locations.

If you were a regular at away games you would know that the best TFC support is always away. Why? Because it's a GA set-up and united, no matter group affiliation.

It is pretty amazing that with this set-up, TFC supporters have absolutely pwned the home support in Montreal, New England, Kansas City, and Columbus. Even with vastly smaller numbers we gave a great account of ourselves in Philly, New York, DC, and Chicago.

Make the north stand GA and give it to the supporters to control. Anyone who says they cant make seating GA by law is full of shit. Move the existing SSH there to the south. The vertical incline of the north stand would be amazing for overheads and displays. Yeah I guess we had our chance, pissed it away and now our support is fucking garbage at league games. Only ourselves to blame.

jabbronies
06-06-2012, 12:56 PM
If you were a regular at away games you would know that the best TFC support is always away. Why? Because it's a GA set-up and united, no matter group affiliation.

It is pretty amazing that with this set-up, TFC supporters have absolutely pwned the home support in Montreal, New England, Kansas City, and Columbus. Even with vastly smaller numbers we gave a great account of ourselves in Philly, New York, DC, and Chicago.

Make the north stand GA and give it to the supporters to control. Anyone who says they cant make seating GA by law is full of shit. Move the existing SSH there to the south. The vertical incline of the north stand would be amazing for overheads and displays. Yeah I guess we had our chance, pissed it away and now our support is fucking garbage at league games. Only ourselves to blame.

I was at the Canada/American friendly on Sunday and I sat about center field right at pitch level alternating on both the east and west side of the stadium.

The sound from the American supporters in the North stand traveled MUCH BETTER across the stadium than the supporters in the south. I think being up higher helped with the sound movement across the pitch.

I'm not talking slightly better, I'm talking a huge difference better. It had nothing to do with the level of support they brought or anything like that. The sound just seemed to carry across, where as the south just seemed to die before centre of the pitch.

I'm conviced that south end is acoustically challenged in design.

RedRum
06-06-2012, 01:04 PM
^ Well that should dispel concerns that it's a bad idea because it is 10 feet farther back from the pitch than the south end. When we took that stand over in that crazy rain game against Van, it left zero doubt in my mind that it was simply made for supporters.

jaahuuu
06-06-2012, 01:50 PM
It happened for the Canada game. USA supporters filled close to half of the North Stand. They draped their banners down and everything. Worked quite well.
I have to disagree that it worked well.

The US-Canada game was the first time I'd been in the north end for an entire game (I was there for a few minutes of the Van NCC game last year). I'm not sure how things are in the south end, but compared to my seats at the top of 110, the view from row 7 of the north stand sucked when play was at the other end, you could not hear a single thing being said over the PA, even when the american supporters weren't singing, and it was a pain in the ass turning around to look at the scoreboard to see the replay of what you just missed at the south end goal.

Being higher up, I'm sure the singing carries better in to the rest of the satdium, and it was nice not having the sun in my face, but I think these positives are far outweighed by the negatives.

Chris Wren
06-06-2012, 01:58 PM
In the rain against Vancouver there were a couple hundred maximum that marched to the North Stand. I think it was only impressive to those who moved. Personally, I felt like it was kind of weak, and just severed the support. I'm guessing chants of "This is our house" would return, but the select chosen supporters would be reffering to the North Stand. It's sad that, as Pookie says, the supporters don't willingly try and find new ways of engaging the enthusiasm all around them. I said the same thing after Montreal, look in the mirror if you don't like the support. I see THOUSANDS standing at BMO for the full 90 in the South Stand and South East corner. If you want to get away from that, maybe there is something wrong with you.

TFC Tifoso
06-06-2012, 02:59 PM
In the rain against Vancouver there were a couple hundred maximum that marched to the North Stand. I think it was only impressive to those who moved. Personally, I felt like it was kind of weak, and just severed the support. I'm guessing chants of "This is our house" would return, but the select chosen supporters would be reffering to the North Stand. It's sad that, as Pookie says, the supporters don't willingly try and find new ways of engaging the enthusiasm all around them. I said the same thing after Montreal, look in the mirror if you don't like the support. I see THOUSANDS standing at BMO for the full 90 in the South Stand and South East corner. If you want to get away from that, maybe there is something wrong with you.

after 5+ years, if people aren't engaged by now, not even circus clowns will help.......people know the songs by now, they just don't sing.......how would you "engage" these people at this point?

what it is that people want to get away from are those who are standing in the south end simply because they either have to in order to watch the game, or because the seats are cheap.......

prizby
06-06-2012, 03:31 PM
Pookie. Bang on, 100% right. I would add that winning will help with any atmospheric concerns. It's simply not a novelty anymore. The surprising amount of enthusiasm fed on itself originally. Moving around the stadium and dividing the support even further will only serve to satisfy, if that's possible, the RPB who feel a need to be isolated from other supporters.....which is somewhat offensive to everyone in the South end, 111 and 110 who stand, support and cheer for 90 minutes but isn't a card carrying RPB.

its not at all about card carrying; its about knowing who is in the section because when you get a person who you don't know in the section and they light a flare or put off a smoke bomb or toss a beer onto the field, then take off before anyone can catch that person, who gets in trouble?

habstfc
06-06-2012, 03:40 PM
What about me, I am in the north stand because I don't want to feel obligated to stand or sing the whole game, trust me I'm not the only one that picked seats there for this reason.

habstfc
06-06-2012, 03:43 PM
I was at the Canada/American friendly on Sunday and I sat about center field right at pitch level alternating on both the east and west side of the stadium.

The sound from the American supporters in the North stand traveled MUCH BETTER across the stadium than the supporters in the south. I think being up higher helped with the sound movement across the pitch.

I'm not talking slightly better, I'm talking a huge difference better. It had nothing to do with the level of support they brought or anything like that. The sound just seemed to carry across, where as the south just seemed to die before centre of the pitch.

I'm conviced that south end is acoustically challenged in design.

Perhaps it's because the wind was blowing from north to south.

Pookie
06-06-2012, 03:46 PM
There are what, 3,000 seats in the North Stand? It's probably likely that not everyone is going to know the folks beside them. Beer tossing, flare loving issues would happen there too.

Uniting the South End should be the focus, regardless of how great it would look in the North. Much like the idea of moving to the same sized house in the same neighbourhood. It is a more expensive and stress filled option with minimal to no gain.

I'd love to hear ideas on how to get 111 more involved. How to expand to 114-115. Seems to me that moving (or adding) a Capo stand is a lot easier than moving 6,000 fans from one side of the stadium to the other.

BeachTory
06-06-2012, 04:45 PM
I'm in the North stand for the view. When there is a little wind, the south end can not be heard, simple. At the US game, i was right behind the US bench, slightly south of mid field and with the wind, the Outlaws in the north stand could be easily heard but the south end with 5 times as many people sounded the same.
The sooner we get a basic simple ampitheatre type of roof over the south end, the better, if only for the sound across the whole ground.

Code Red
06-06-2012, 06:52 PM
There are what, 3,000 seats in the North Stand? It's probably likely that not everyone is going to know the folks beside them. Beer tossing, flare loving issues would happen there too.

Uniting the South End should be the focus, regardless of how great it would look in the North. Much like the idea of moving to the same sized house in the same neighbourhood. It is a more expensive and stress filled option with minimal to no gain.

I'd love to hear ideas on how to get 111 more involved. How to expand to 114-115. Seems to me that moving (or adding) a Capo stand is a lot easier than moving 6,000 fans from one side of the stadium to the other.

You answered your own question. On that note, good luck to the capos trying to synchronize across multiple sections. As it is, it's hard enough for the 112 and 113 capos to coordinate nevermind stretching across the entire south end. Simply too much ground to cover. These days even 111 seems disinterested. Not throwing any blame around, just stating the facts.

Not sure what the solution is at this point. Starting over by way of the north stand seems visionary but is it practical? That I do not know. If I was to speculate, I would say that there is too many obstacles in the way of this proposition. STH relocation being front and centre but other factors such as various MLSE concerns would undoubtly be brought up as well by the big wigs.

It's a shame the south end wasn't built on a greater slope and contained more rows a la the north end. It would have eliminated at least part of the problem.

AL-MO
06-06-2012, 07:29 PM
Until GA happens, (Somewhere....ANYWHERE) Support in Toronto will always be fractured and we'll continue to spin our tires in the mud like we have been for the past 3 years.

Rudy
06-06-2012, 07:54 PM
I like this idea. I've noticed in the last few away games just how hardcore the NEE guys are, they sing for the full 90 and are much better at coordination than the South is (yes I know they have a smaller area to cover). It would be a good learning experience for the South and would focus all the supporters in one general area.

what happened to NEE? this season they seem non-existant.....

brad
06-06-2012, 08:02 PM
Perhaps it's because the wind was blowing from north to south.

Ding ding ding. The way sound carries changes game to game. Some game I can hear the south end a bit, other games I can't. Some games I could here NEE, other games I couldn't.

I don't think that that one location over another would be inherently better or worse in this regard.

Chris Wren
06-06-2012, 09:54 PM
There are 1500 seats or so in the North End.

When I say embrace the people who are all around you I mean stop caring about singing for 90 straight minutes. It's a ridiculous idea to think that is ever going to happen. Get over it. Is it really so bad that people actually care about what's happening in the game or with the team too? When players come for a corner I get the impression that disorganized yet passionate screaming is as intense as showing your passion in sing song form, which at times everybody does anyway.

I just can't understand this obsession with control and knowing everybody and having support done only your way. It's messed up in my opinion. I guess that's all I have to say. I'm taking a break from this board so the official RPB can be alone from the taint of a TFC supporter.

prizby
06-07-2012, 12:12 AM
There are 1500 seats or so in the North End.

When I say embrace the people who are all around you I mean stop caring about singing for 90 straight minutes. It's a ridiculous idea to think that is ever going to happen. Get over it. Is it really so bad that people actually care about what's happening in the game or with the team too? When players come for a corner I get the impression that disorganized yet passionate screaming is as intense as showing your passion in sing song form, which at times everybody does anyway.

I just can't understand this obsession with control and knowing everybody and having support done only your way. It's messed up in my opinion. I guess that's all I have to say. I'm taking a break from this board so the official RPB can be alone from the taint of a TFC supporter.

Control/Knowing Everybody; isn't necesarily "knowing them", but having someone vouch for them as well. Unless you want to go back to having to drop the drum/banners/flags off an hour before kickoff like last year; because all it takes is one person to ruin for the rest; and the fact is, this has happened in the past and you can guess who got the blame for it.

Support isn't done "our way" because so many people here want to support in different ways, which i think goes right back to pookie's point about the lack of unity which goes to the next point

"I mean stop caring about singing for 90 straight minutes."

its amazing when you look at the Timbers Army or Seattle Sounder supporters...they pretty much go for 90 straight and funny, they seem to be able to get a few thousand to do that...don't they sound great too?

123 elite
06-07-2012, 06:22 AM
What about me, I am in the north stand because I don't want to feel obligated to stand or sing the whole game, trust me I'm not the only one that picked seats there for this reason.


Ditto. Having been stuck in the Olympic stadium in Montreal for the second half only a few yards from the relocated capo bawling his head off telling me to sit down stand up jump around and barely being able to see the game because of it i say no thanks. Your south side is just fine.

Fort York Redcoat
06-07-2012, 06:45 AM
Until GA happens, (Somewhere....ANYWHERE) Support in Toronto will always be fractured and we'll continue to spin our tires in the mud like we have been for the past 3 years.

LOL

GA Unites us all.

nfitz
06-07-2012, 06:59 AM
Ditto. Having been stuck in the Olympic stadium in Montreal for the second half only a few yards from the relocated capo bawling his head off telling me to sit down stand up jump around and barely being able to see the game because of it i say no thanks. Your south side is just fine.I think I know the "capo" you refer to, as he was much closer to me in the first half of the game at the Big O - and the only other time I've seen him was at Rogers, where he did a pretty good job of alienating many of those around him. I've never seen him in the south end - I've heard it mentioned that he sits in 127 ... part of that "North End" group - which might go a long way to explaining why that group seems to be shrinking, and there was so much availability in 127 as seat relocation and even sales to new STH, compared to any of the other supporters sections.

kaos197O
06-07-2012, 07:01 AM
There are what, 3,000 seats in the North Stand? It's probably likely that not everyone is going to know the folks beside them. Beer tossing, flare loving issues would happen there too.

Uniting the South End should be the focus, regardless of how great it would look in the North. Much like the idea of moving to the same sized house in the same neighbourhood. It is a more expensive and stress filled option with minimal to no gain.

I'd love to hear ideas on how to get 111 more involved. How to expand to 114-115. Seems to me that moving (or adding) a Capo stand is a lot easier than moving 6,000 fans from one side of the stadium to the other.

One of my suggestions from a while back was too use the group in 112 AS THE CAPO for 111 and towards the sides. The "Massive" works well and is one of the louder chants. Why not do "When then the Reds come marching in" similarly, as a back and forth. Eliminate the single man capo for those chants and make it a group that acts as capo and have the other groups/sections respond. It would coordinate the Chorus and effectively make the chant have much more impact and volume. Same can be said of the "Ultras/We Love You Toronto/Toronto Superstar" chant. Why not involve everyone more. From sitting in 110 trying to hear what is being started is virtually impossible. That's why I say communication with collective voices from section to section to section will not only get people involved it will give us that much needed coordination that people speak of. We've gotta work with what we've got so why not give it a shot???????

Pookie
06-07-2012, 08:09 AM
Re: Chanting for 90. Humans in Toronto are pretty much wired like humans elsewhere. Certainly capable of chanting a full 90 if the social supports are in place. A fellow is less likely to sing for 90 mins if he is the only one singing, or perceives his efforts as less than effective.

Leadership studies suggest that sometimes, the "first follower" is more important than the leader itself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ

"There is no movement without the first follower. The best way to make a movement is to courageously follow and show others how to follow."

So, where am I going with this?

IMO, if we want unity we have to demonstrate unity within the SGs themselves. In Portland, they have established a Supporters' Trust called the 107ist which fuels everything that the Timbers Army does. Other groups belong to it and it is the guiding, unified voice for all Supporters. The other groups still operate on their terms with their members.

It isn't surprising that the North end of that stadium is filled with unified followers.

My appeal would be for the "RBP Inc" to have a vision to serve as the unified voice and in the spirit of courageous following, engage the other groups in participation. Essentially an umbrella trust organization that unifies all groups around charities, TIFOs, a voice with the FO and supporting the team.

Call it something like the "Red Sea" or something more creative. Create a structure that supports their voice... perhaps seats on the exec of Red Sea, work together on the charities that unite us all, engage them in the goal of unifying the south end with capo suggestions and work with the FO to make it happen.

Easy peasy?

ouderwien
06-07-2012, 08:33 AM
There are what, 3,000 seats in the North Stand? It's probably likely that not everyone is going to know the folks beside them. Beer tossing, flare loving issues would happen there too.

Uniting the South End should be the focus, regardless of how great it would look in the North. Much like the idea of moving to the same sized house in the same neighbourhood. It is a more expensive and stress filled option with minimal to no gain.

I'd love to hear ideas on how to get 111 more involved. How to expand to 114-115. Seems to me that moving (or adding) a Capo stand is a lot easier than moving 6,000 fans from one side of the stadium to the other.



I agree with this. Sitting at the end of 114, it dies about there and whatever chanting is achieved further along the South End is always seperate or waaaay off from the corner. If there are any grand ideas of moving to the North end, I think we need to be able to be heard past 111-113. And to follow Pookie's last post, another coordinated Capo will help. I'm sure people will sing if there is direction.

123 elite
06-07-2012, 09:28 AM
You be better off trying to get MLSE to construct a solid concrete south end that has NO seats but safe standing with crash bars German style. That way you are not restricted to where you can and can't go by being tied to a seat. Then move the east section furthest south (not sure of the numbers down that end) and any NEE that want to move in there and anyone else for that matter till its sold out. Stick a roof over it to help funnel the noise and have a separate entrance so no-one else can access that end. Add $50 to the Season price for yellow to help pay for it. Everyone happy.

nfitz
06-07-2012, 09:46 AM
Add $50 to the Season price for yellow to help pay for it. Everyone happy.Except those whose ticket prices just went up 15%.

Code Red
06-07-2012, 11:51 AM
You be better off trying to get MLSE to construct a solid concrete south end that has NO seats but safe standing with crash bars German style. That way you are not restricted to where you can and can't go by being tied to a seat. Then move the east section furthest south (not sure of the numbers down that end) and any NEE that want to move in there and anyone else for that matter till its sold out. Stick a roof over it to help funnel the noise and have a separate entrance so no-one else can access that end. Add $50 to the Season price for yellow to help pay for it. Everyone happy.

Not that I can see MLSE dishing out $$$ on a new and rebuilt South End but this post has a lot of truth to it. The Germans have it bang on when it comes to atmosphere at their stadiums and the proper construction of their supporters sections have a lot to do with that. If you look at their stadiums a lot of them have inclined sections that enable capos to reach out to as many supporters as possible. This of course is not possible at BMO Field as the South End is extremely stretched but it's certainly not impossible to extend the atmosphere to other sections in the South End. The question is whether or not the folks in those sections want to have the same kind of participation as 112/113 or are they content on standing and watching the game for 90 minutes.

As Pookie said multiple capos would be needed but even then the synchronization between them makes it difficult to be on the same page. With a vertical slope a capo is able to engage more supporters and a second capo, midway through the section, helps in the distribution of the chant. Of couse it works best when the capos are centered in the middle of the stand.

Open dialogue on this matter is what's needed imo. Have all the supporters groups meet and discuss ideas as to what can be done to better improve the gameday atmposphere and if unification is needed to create that kind of atmosphere, then maybe we should be going that route?

Nomad
06-07-2012, 02:46 PM
I think I know the "capo" you refer to, as he was much closer to me in the first half of the game at the Big O - and the only other time I've seen him was at Rogers, where he did a pretty good job of alienating many of those around him. I've never seen him in the south end - I've heard it mentioned that he sits in 127 ... part of that "North End" group - which might go a long way to explaining why that group seems to be shrinking, and there was so much availability in 127 as seat relocation and even sales to new STH, compared to any of the other supporters sections.

This is one of the most uninformed posts i have ever read on the forums. So much so i'm going to leave it unchallenged. It's absolutely hilarious how people who aren't clued up in the slightest still have self righteous opinions. I'm embarrassed for you, I truly am.

nfitz
06-07-2012, 02:55 PM
This is one of the most uninformed posts i have ever read on the forums. So much so i'm going to leave it unchallenged. It's absolutely hilarious how people who aren't clued up in the slightest still have self righteous opinions. I'm embarrassed for you, I truly am.LOL And yet I used the word might ... which actually implies even I think there's a bigger chance it isn't the reason 127 sales were soft this year. Might is self righteous?

What's really bizarre about your post, is that you say you leave it unchallenged. But you then proceed to challenge it! If you disagree with something I've said, have the balls to point out where I'm wrong, and what you think is correct. And if you don't have the balls to do that, stop being self-righteous!

Fort York Redcoat
06-07-2012, 02:59 PM
This is one of the most uninformed posts i have ever read on the forums. So much so i'm going to leave it unchallenged. It's absolutely hilarious how people who aren't clued up in the slightest still have self righteous opinions. I'm embarrassed for you, I truly am.

While this insult MAY grow interest in someone to get more information I think it would be pretty obvious that the self righteous isn't reserved to the informed. We all start somewhere. Information usually helps more than a challenge but it's your play.

Nomad
06-07-2012, 03:21 PM
I'm still laughing. hahaha

nfitz
06-07-2012, 03:39 PM
I'm still laughing. hahahaAt what, no one quite knows - at how rude you were perhaps? All I did was relay some gossip I'd heard, and possibly linked it what we've all observed in 127. I made it clear that it was innuendo, and that it was only a theory.

I've certainly touched a nerve though ... though I'm not sure why. The two stories are out there ... not sure which part you think is incorrect. I'm quite happy to have the record set straight; we all know how telephone works.

Greatest Ripoff
06-07-2012, 03:58 PM
As Pookie said multiple capos would be needed but even then the synchronization between them makes it difficult to be on the same page. With a vertical slope a capo is able to engage more supporters and a second capo, midway through the section, helps in the distribution of the chant. Of couse it works best when the capos are centered in the middle of the stand.


Are capos really needed? I am not trying to be a dick, I am just curios. I travel abroad a couple of times a year and attend matches in larger stadiums without capos and there are no problem with the entire stadium getting involved with the songs. Just interested in what the difference might be.

Fort York Redcoat
06-07-2012, 06:30 PM
Are capos really needed? I am not trying to be a dick, I am just curios. I travel abroad a couple of times a year and attend matches in larger stadiums without capos and there are no problem with the entire stadium getting involved with the songs. Just interested in what the difference might be.

The difference is that we need a capo and those places you've visited have never thought they needed one because they've never known they could have one. Granted they have less discussion on how long or loud they sing. That is, the take on singing is more organic and far more ingrained.

james
06-07-2012, 07:08 PM
some people say that supporters moving from the South stand to the North would make no difference because if fans can not unite in the South why would it be any different in the North?? well i beleive because it's smaller and more supporters would be bunched in together would help. An example of this working is Columbus Crew, when supporters were all put into one half of the stand behind there net rather then being spread out all across the whole stand (they took out a portion of seats in the middle of the stand to put in a stage or something) anyways the atmosphere improved for them.

Other options, yes we could try to improve the atmosphere in the South End, but i could tell you the only way this will work is if supporters have more control over ticket sales. There are to many fans bunched in between supporter groups, and support groups are scattered about in the South End, many fans like to go the game sure thats fine, but they do not want to get involved in the singing, tifo displays exc and as long as the South End remains without supporters having more control this will not change. If those fans were going to join in with the supporters singing and everything they would of done it by now i think. Reason it works in Seattle, Portland, Philly for example is because hardcore supporters have more control and are more bunched in together then we have at BMO Field in the south stand.

any ways thats my thoughts.

douglasTO
06-07-2012, 08:31 PM
This is a superb post. It is an excellent study of the human condition. I stand in row 19 of 110 and I like to sing. I do find that singing is a little initmidating when you are the only one doing it in your immediate area. My voice is passionate but my pitch needs work. I think many share this. I will say that I will always follow and support someone else that throws themself out there! Hey Toronto!


Re: Chanting for 90. Humans in Toronto are pretty much wired like humans elsewhere. Certainly capable of chanting a full 90 if the social supports are in place. A fellow is less likely to sing for 90 mins if he is the only one singing, or perceives his efforts as less than effective.

Leadership studies suggest that sometimes, the "first follower" is more important than the leader itself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ

"There is no movement without the first follower. The best way to make a movement is to courageously follow and show others how to follow."

So, where am I going with this?

IMO, if we want unity we have to demonstrate unity within the SGs themselves. In Portland, they have established a Supporters' Trust called the 107ist which fuels everything that the Timbers Army does. Other groups belong to it and it is the guiding, unified voice for all Supporters. The other groups still operate on their terms with their members.

It isn't surprising that the North end of that stadium is filled with unified followers.

My appeal would be for the "RBP Inc" to have a vision to serve as the unified voice and in the spirit of courageous following, engage the other groups in participation. Essentially an umbrella trust organization that unifies all groups around charities, TIFOs, a voice with the FO and supporting the team.

Call it something like the "Red Sea" or something more creative. Create a structure that supports their voice... perhaps seats on the exec of Red Sea, work together on the charities that unite us all, engage them in the goal of unifying the south end with capo suggestions and work with the FO to make it happen.

Easy peasy?

Code Red
06-07-2012, 09:15 PM
Are capos really needed? I am not trying to be a dick, I am just curios. I travel abroad a couple of times a year and attend matches in larger stadiums without capos and there are no problem with the entire stadium getting involved with the songs. Just interested in what the difference might be.

That's a fair question. I think it depends on who you ask. I, for one, believe a capo IS necessary, at least in our ground. I feel that on gamedays when the capo stand is vacant, we as a group, lack direction and become silent for extended periods of time. As soon as the capo stand becomes occupied, this problem seems to be eliminated for obvious reasons (see Pookie's video as evidence). You are right in saying that a lot of SGs around the world rely solely on the supporters for their songs/chants, however, a lot of these SGs have been around far longer than we have. Their fanbases tend to know the songs/chants inside out whereas outside of the regulars in our supporters section, there are many folks who do not fully know the lyrics associated with our chants. For this reason alone we aren't nearly as loud as those SGs who have been around for decades. Then there are all the other factors such as location of the stadium (wind from Lake Ontario) etc. In the end, some people like capos for their leadership while others wish they would dissapear. It's up to the supporters to decide.

Fort York Redcoat
06-08-2012, 06:36 AM
This is a superb post. It is an excellent study of the human condition. I stand in row 19 of 110 and I like to sing. I do find that singing is a little initmidating when you are the only one doing it in your immediate area. My voice is passionate but my pitch needs work. I think many share this. I will say that I will always follow and support someone else that throws themself out there! Hey Toronto!


Haha I know that feel bro! Especially after a full half of singing you'll notice people changing pitch or going an octave lower to save their voice or to keep a voice at all. Keep at it!

Soccer Mom
06-14-2012, 04:14 PM
I just think we need some new chants to make us look a little bit better. When I watch TFC on tv, it seems like 3 people are chanting TFC!

prizby
06-15-2012, 12:39 PM
I just think we need some new chants to make us look a little bit better. When I watch TFC on tv, it seems like 3 people are chanting TFC!

the problem isn't the chants, its the accoustics of the stadium. Many stadiums have roofs which allow the sound the supporters make to bounce back down towards the pitch. The south end is a wide open stand and many of times the wind is blowing towards Lake Ontario. You have a better chance at hearing whats being said in Lake Ontario than you do in the north stand

Huyton
06-15-2012, 02:00 PM
I think I know the "capo" you refer to, as he was much closer to me in the first half of the game at the Big O - and the only other time I've seen him was at Rogers, where he did a pretty good job of alienating many of those around him. I've never seen him in the south end - I've heard it mentioned that he sits in 127 ... part of that "North End" group - which might go a long way to explaining why that group seems to be shrinking, and there was so much availability in 127 as seat relocation and even sales to new STH, compared to any of the other supporters sections.

There are huge numbers of tourists in 127, different every game. I went down and had a pleasant chat with a guy in NEE, who said thay had some internal problems this year and a lot of people left. They would love some help. The problem is that some guys facing the field can't be heard by the people behind them. I've suggested having one guy face backwards, or moving to the back. They said they've tried all those things, but not much seems to work.

So, a few of us near the top of 127 are doing our own thing and people below are joining in. If we hear NEE, then we help out.

I'm curious...has the use of FRS radios been investigated to try to unify the sound?