Garber says Montreal in 2011.

[kodiakTFC]

MLS Commissioner Don Garber in person did an interview with Forbes and announced that Montreal should have the 19th spot into MLS by 2011. You can check it out, click on the clip of the interview. This interview with Garber took place the day after the All-Star break on July 30. What was also interesting is that Garber said they are not in any advanced negotiations for the 20th team with anyone. Once they hit 20, they will halt expansion for a while - with a possible cap at 20. And, MLS wants to be at 20 by 2012.

(video in link)

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2009/08/expansion-montreal-2011.html

[ForestGlade]

Cancel the Trillium Cup, we got a better rivalry trophy. Bring on the Poutine Cup!

[kodiakTFC]

Cancel the Trillium Cup, we got a better rivalry trophy. Bring on the Poutine Cup!

Question: In 2011 when all 3 Canadian teams are in the MLS; will we play seperate cup games for the NCC or will the league games just count as the NCC games as well? I'd assume no but as the league expands, we play more games, and have no roster depth.. its an attractive option.

[Detroit_TFC]

Hopefully there will be some USL expansion to replace VAN and MTL, open NCC to lower league teams, with some sort of play in.

[ForestGlade]

Question: In 2011 when all 3 Canadian teams are in the MLS; will we play seperate cup games for the NCC or will the league games just count as the NCC games as well? I'd assume no but as the league expands, we play more games, and have no roster depth.. its an attractive option.

It'll have to be separate games. The NCC has to end by a certain date for the winner to be decided in time for the CONCACAF perlim. I'm sure MLS wouldn't squeeze in all the games that quickly in the season to accomidate. What I'm saying is get rid of the Trillium Cup and add the extra match to Montreal, giving us 5 meetings with them

[kodiakTFC]

It'll have to be separate games. The NCC has to end by a certain date for the winner to be decided in time for the CONCACAF perlim. I'm sure MLS wouldn't squeeze in all the games that quickly in the season to accomidate. What I'm saying is get rid of the Trillium Cup and add the extra match to Montreal, giving us 5 meetings with them

Well in 2010 there will be 19 teams. I imagine it will be be 1home/1away vs every team in the league. Perhaps only 1 away or 1 home vs. some western conference teams.

[flatpicker]

funny how things change with time.

also strange that this news barely made waves, when the speculation of Montreal months ago was getting so much attention.

anyway, this is great news... bring'em on!

[Super]

FULL STOP at 20 please!

[troy1982]

FULL STOP at 20 please!

MLS will not stop expanding if strong ownership and stadiums deals are in place.

Could you see MLS saying no to following cities if they had the above.

Atlanta
Miami
San Diego
Detroit
Cleveland / Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Phoenix / Las Vegas
San Antonio / Austin
Orlando / Tampa Bay
NYC2
Carolina (anywhere within these states)
Baltimore
San Francesco
Sacramento
St. Louis
Toronto2
Ottawa


I am just saying there is alot of large American cities out there.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

MLS Commissioner Don Garber in person did an interview with Forbes and announced that Montreal should have the 19th spot into MLS by 2011. You can check it out, click on the clip of the interview. This interview with Garber took place the day after the All-Star break on July 30. What was also interesting is that Garber said they are not in any advanced negotiations for the 20th team with anyone. Once they hit 20, they will halt expansion for a while - with a possible cap at 20. And, MLS wants to be at 20 by 2012.

(video in link)

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2009/08/expansion-montreal-2011.html


should have doesnt mean much they should have been in , in 2011 but fucked it up....bet they do it again!!

[kodiakTFC]

FULL STOP at 20 please!

This isn't the rest of the world where pro/rel system will work. The MLS should pause at 20, make sure its financially safe, then continue expansion. A 40 team MLS wouldn't be that bad as long as its done correctly. My guess is by 2012 its 20 and by 2016 they start expanding again.

[Cashcleaner]

MLS will not stop expanding if strong ownership and stadiums deals are in place.

Could you see MLS saying no to following cities if they had the above.

Atlanta - Not gonna happen
Miami - Maybe
San Diego - Nope
Detroit - Naw
Cleveland / Cincinnati - Sure, if Columbus moves
Pittsburgh - Hmmmmm
Phoenix / Las Vegas - No way
San Antonio / Austin - Interesting, but no
Orlando / Tampa Bay - Not if Miami is in
NYC2 - Let's see if they can fill Red Bull Arena
Carolina (anywhere within these states) - Maybe Charleston. Maybe
Baltimore - Nope. Well, I mean DC could end up playing there
San Francesco - No
Sacramento - Heck no
St. Louis - Would be nice, but haven't seen a lot of movement
Toronto2 - Not a chance
Ottawa - Not if they play in Kanata


I am just saying there is alot of large American cities out there.

Sure there's a lot of large cities in Canada and the States, but only a few seem to have viable soccer markets at the moment. Remember, MLS has to contend with baseball, basketball, NFL football, and college sports in much of those cities.

[boban]

Question: In 2011 when all 3 Canadian teams are in the MLS; will we play seperate cup games for the NCC or will the league games just count as the NCC games as well? I'd assume no but as the league expands, we play more games, and have no roster depth.. its an attractive option.
It will be separate. The US Cup is separate as well.
Your option is NOT attractive.

[boban]

MLS will not stop expanding if strong ownership and stadiums deals are in place.

Could you see MLS saying no to following cities if they had the above.

Atlanta
Miami
San Diego
Detroit
Cleveland / Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Phoenix / Las Vegas
San Antonio / Austin
Orlando / Tampa Bay
NYC2
Carolina (anywhere within these states)
Baltimore
San Francesco
Sacramento
St. Louis
Toronto2
Ottawa


I am just saying there is alot of large American cities out there.
What people are forgetting is that FIFA will put their foot down at some point. This isn't a league run like the other big sports in Canada & USA. Someone mentioned 40 teams. LMAO .. yeah right.

[jloome]

Sure there's a lot of large cities in Canada and the States, but only a few seem to have viable soccer markets at the moment. Remember, MLS has to contend with baseball, basketball, NFL football, and college sports in much of those cities.

Actually, that list of comments is highly inaccurate. St. Louis already have the full financial commitment in place; Atlanta has had strong interest, and San Diego has had both strong interest and ongoing discussion about being a possible relocation city from a weaker market. The Austin Aztecs of the USL outdraw FC Dallas; I wouldn't know one way or another about San Francisco, but there's no reason to say "no" either, aside from the San Jose proximity; and the Ottawa deal would be just as viable to MLS (infact, likely more, due to the NHL tie-ins) if it were located in Kanata as downtown at Frank Claire; people do travel to Kanata, Nepean, Gloucester etc pretty much every night from work, you know. They do have roads.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Have you travelled to Scotiabank Centre from Downtown Ottawa? I have and I am absolutely flabbergasted that people make their way so far out of town to watch a Senators game. It's not even in the heart of Kanata itself, but rather on the periphery and surrounded by industrial parks and farmland. I'm surprised enough they travel that far for hockey and believe me when I say I am incredibly confident that they won't for soccer. Ottawa does have a new subway system proposed and in the designing stage, but a line out to Kanata isn't even being considered yet.

The only factor I see that could change the city's chances for a successful franchise is if they redevelop Landsdowne or another more central site.

[Brooker]

What people are forgetting is that FIFA will put their foot down at some point. This isn't a league run like the other big sports in Canada & USA. Someone mentioned 40 teams. LMAO .. yeah right.

why would fifa put their foot down?


im neither agreeing or disagreeing, just curious...

[The Kingpin]

^ Have you travelled to Scotiabank Centre from Downtown Ottawa? I have and I am absolutely flabbergasted that people make their way so far out of town to watch a Senators game. It's not even in the heart of Kanata itself, but rather on the periphery and surrounded by industrial parks and farmland. I'm surprised enough they travel that far for hockey and believe me when I say I am incredibly confident that they won't for soccer. Ottawa does have a new subway system proposed and in the designing stage, but a line out to Kanata isn't even being considered yet.

The only factor I see that could change the city's chances for a successful franchise is if they redevelop Landsdowne or another more central site.

I agree on so many accounts - and Ottawa is one of the worst sports towns in Canada. St. John's Newfoundland would probably support a team better. I've been to a few Sens games, it is ridiculous trying to get there... And basically you HAVE to drive.

[ensco]

That list with the comments added has too much overthinking, is based only on the last expansion bids, and has crude biases.

If MLS succeeds, the list of cities where it wouldn't work, has zero names on it.

[The Kingpin]

That list with the comments added has too much overthinking, is based only on the last expansion bids, and has crude biases.

If MLS succeeds, the list of cities where it wouldn't work, has zero names on it.

?

Expand.

[greatwhitenorf]

Can't believe they've overlooked Tulsa. Bring Back The Roughnecks!

Shocked to see how well soccer is supported in the Carolinas. Prosperous Raleigh would be a good choice over Charlotte, less pro competition. Might find soccer a natural draw from the universities nearby, where the chance to get loud and rowdy - and drunk - would be very appealing.

As for Ottawa and the griping about Kanata.

There's dedicated express bus lanes out to the rink that work quite well. The highways are fully paved, quite smooth and have many, many lanes. Plus, streets and roads are being built up nearby that now offer good alternative routes in and out. Seems to work coz the rink, which expanded capacity not long ago, is quite full most nights, with many arriving early to enjoy meals and drinks at Marshy's or the bars inside.

That model will work better in soccer season when, for most games, you would be heading out to the stadium on a weekend day and not having to cope with the weeknight rush-hour traffic that Sens fans often have to deal with.

Lansdowne is really hard to get in and out of on game days/nights. Area residents hate the idea of a new stadium because of the parking and traffic problems it causes on their residential streets. Plus if they do rebuild the stadium, it will be for the CFL team, with weaker sightlines and a plastic field. Lebreton Flats, near Parl. Hill, is being built up with condos and retail with no room planned for a stadium. The baseball stadium is another suggestion, but it would take some costly re-fitting and not sure it's a great location either. Only been there once, like most Ottawans.

Kanata it is, then, with Melnyk's money and proven track record of success.

If they ever get a team.

[The Kingpin]

CFL X 2. Failure
AAA Baseball. Failure
NLL. Failure
Anything not Hockey. Failure

[Kaz]

If Hamilton can pick up a USL-1 Franchise and say Halifax... (I'd like so see something going on the east coast) then I could see I nice 5 Club Cup...

[S_D]

Cancel the Trillium Cup, we got a better rivalry trophy. Bring on the Poutine Cup!

Poor Columbus. The ugly sister again that nobody cares to play with. I guess the MLS is going have to manufacture another meaningless cup.


Question: In 2011 when all 3 Canadian teams are in the MLS; will we play seperate cup games for the NCC or will the league games just count as the NCC games as well? I'd assume no but as the league expands, we play more games, and have no roster depth.. its an attractive option.

And deny CONCACAF err Warner a cut in gate reciepts? Never happen.:D


funny how things change with more money.

also strange that this news barely made waves, when the speculation of Montreal months ago was getting so much attention.

anyway, this is great news... bring'em on!

fixed your post :D

[boban]

why would fifa put their foot down?


im neither agreeing or disagreeing, just curious...
CSA had to petition FIFA fro TFC to be allowed into MLS.
Also FIFA has come out in the past year or so and mentioned that they would like to see the top flight of soccer in a given country not exceed 18-20.
The Championship in England is 24 teams because its not top flight.
Now, mind you, the teams 'may' go to 22 or something close to that, but 40??!! Not a chance.

[dupont]

Wow. Garber really makes it crystal clear in that interview that Montreal is to be the 19th team and then everyone else can fight for the 20th spot. I knew Montreal was the front runner but I never heard it expressed like such a sure thing until that.

[troy1982]

What people are forgetting is that FIFA will put their foot down at some point. This isn't a league run like the other big sports in Canada & USA. Someone mentioned 40 teams. LMAO .. yeah right.

Fifa is only concerned with the amount of games played not the number of teams. And since MLS is unlikely to play more than 30 games a season I don' tthink we have to worry about Fifa.

Plus I can't see USSF, CSA or CONCACAF being against MLS having more than 20 or 30 teams.

[troy1982]

Sure there's a lot of large cities in Canada and the States, but only a few seem to have viable soccer markets at the moment. Remember, MLS has to contend with baseball, basketball, NFL football, and college sports in much of those cities.

Your comments are focus on the present but in 5 years things can change rapidly. just look at MLS 5 years ago to see some of the major changes which have happened.

You can't tell me if a billionaire comes along in one of those cities with a SS stadium that MLS will say no.

The only timetable for a expansion is when the next billionaire is ready to get into the soccer business.

[T_Mizz]

Question: how far is it from Ottawa to Kanata especially with these roads and bus lanes that Greatwhitenorf descibed? It can't be much worse than some commutes I've seen/heard of/made to BMO? I come from Newmarket how does that compare?

[flatpicker]

bring on the 20 team league!

then maybe we can split it into a two tier league all under the MLS umbrella.
still have revenue sharing amoungst all 20.
crown a league champ at season's end.
but allow the top 16 teams into the MLS Cup playoffs.
that would mean every team in MLS One and the top 6 from MLS Two.
I think that would make it very interesting...
there would be relegation, yet teams in MLS 2 would have financial support from MLS money sharing,
and have a crack at MLS Cup playoffs.

me likey...

[squarehead]

CSA had to petition FIFA fro TFC to be allowed into MLS.
Also FIFA has come out in the past year or so and mentioned that they would like to see the top flight of soccer in a given country not exceed 18-20.
The Championship in England is 24 teams because its not top flight.
Now, mind you, the teams 'may' go to 22 or something close to that, but 40??!! Not a chance.

so, seeing how MLS involves TWO countries, wouldn't be okay to have 40?

I don't think that's going to happen, but I do see the possibility of MLS being substantially bigger then the 20 or so teams - there's even east and west conferences in place already to allow for TWO tables.

P.S. I'm not sure WHAT is going to happen, noone is... so saying "Not a chance" to MLS being more then 22 teams in the future is pretty arrogant, lol... especially when your argument against is "they don't do it that way in other places", you know - with MLS history of sticking to oldschool ways of running a league and all :facepalm:

[ag futbol]

CSA had to petition FIFA fro TFC to be allowed into MLS.
Also FIFA has come out in the past year or so and mentioned that they would like to see the top flight of soccer in a given country not exceed 18-20.
The Championship in England is 24 teams because its not top flight.
Now, mind you, the teams 'may' go to 22 or something close to that, but 40??!! Not a chance.
FIFA can say what they want, but when push comes to shove they really aren't going to do much.

Women wearing hot pants and an MLS winter schedule have also been briliant ideas from the FIFA brain trust. Nobody wants to tell them publicly how stupid they are.

Because you're never going to sell any businessman on relegation, it's not going to exist in north american franchise sports. It's economic death in no uncertain terms. Problems exist also with running a Canadian league, no point of running them down we already know what they are.

The way things are trending, you're way more likely to see some MLS inspired spending restrictions in Europe or a G14 type league (with no relegation) than MLS taking up some of the global practices.

[Cashcleaner]

Your comments are focus on the present but in 5 years things can change rapidly. just look at MLS 5 years ago to see some of the major changes which have happened.

You can't tell me if a billionaire comes along in one of those cities with a SS stadium that MLS will say no.

The only timetable for a expansion is when the next billionaire is ready to get into the soccer business.

Well that's true. I mean let's face it, the criteria for getting a team is basically having the expansion fee and a stadium in place. I agree that any city could theoretically be given a franchise, but I'm talking about enjoying a successful one. A place like Atlanta or Las Vegas could always be awarded a team, but how long would it last in such places?

The league has no use for more Columbus Crews or Kansas City Wizards and their abysmal attendance records.

[Kaz]

North American Top Flight Leagues stop at about 30.. you won't ever see 40 teams in MLS.. NHL, NFL are both olding at where they are, you need the markets to support them.

MLS needs to hold at 20 right now.. and do some franchise shuffling of low attendance and unprofitable franchises to brighter waters.. Dallas to Austin, St Louis, or Miami for example.

[S_D]

It is very possible to have 40 teams in the MLS. They can easily set up 2 conferences not unlike MLB, where there are 20 in each and just stay within conference to keep the number of games down. They could even have a few cross conference games.

Not saying though that there are 40 markets that can support a team or enough players to fill out the roster, at least not right now.

[TFCRegina]

Question: In 2011 when all 3 Canadian teams are in the MLS; will we play seperate cup games for the NCC or will the league games just count as the NCC games as well? I'd assume no but as the league expands, we play more games, and have no roster depth.. its an attractive option.

No, don't do that. Make them seperate.

[TFCRegina]

Can't believe they've overlooked Tulsa. Bring Back The Roughnecks!

Shocked to see how well soccer is supported in the Carolinas. Prosperous Raleigh would be a good choice over Charlotte, less pro competition. Might find soccer a natural draw from the universities nearby, where the chance to get loud and rowdy - and drunk - would be very appealing.

As for Ottawa and the griping about Kanata.

There's dedicated express bus lanes out to the rink that work quite well. The highways are fully paved, quite smooth and have many, many lanes. Plus, streets and roads are being built up nearby that now offer good alternative routes in and out. Seems to work coz the rink, which expanded capacity not long ago, is quite full most nights, with many arriving early to enjoy meals and drinks at Marshy's or the bars inside.

That model will work better in soccer season when, for most games, you would be heading out to the stadium on a weekend day and not having to cope with the weeknight rush-hour traffic that Sens fans often have to deal with.

Lansdowne is really hard to get in and out of on game days/nights. Area residents hate the idea of a new stadium because of the parking and traffic problems it causes on their residential streets. Plus if they do rebuild the stadium, it will be for the CFL team, with weaker sightlines and a plastic field. Lebreton Flats, near Parl. Hill, is being built up with condos and retail with no room planned for a stadium. The baseball stadium is another suggestion, but it would take some costly re-fitting and not sure it's a great location either. Only been there once, like most Ottawans.

Kanata it is, then, with Melnyk's money and proven track record of success.

If they ever get a team.

I live in Ottawa right now. Say no to MLS in Ottawa, maybe MLS-2 if it's ever implemented as a pro/rel league, but not MLS.

[boban]

FIFA can say what they want, but when push comes to shove they really aren't going to do much.

Women wearing hot pants and an MLS winter schedule have also been briliant ideas from the FIFA brain trust. Nobody wants to tell them publicly how stupid they are.

Because you're never going to sell any businessman on relegation, it's not going to exist in north american franchise sports. It's economic death in no uncertain terms. Problems exist also with running a Canadian league, no point of running them down we already know what they are.

The way things are trending, you're way more likely to see some MLS inspired spending restrictions in Europe or a G14 type league (with no relegation) than MLS taking up some of the global practices.
I agree the push for a winter schedule is a bit premature, but it must be incorporated somewhere down the line. Listen with the push for more expansion equals more games. Inevitably that pushes the league sooner and later into the calender. All then that has to be done is start the season n the middle of the year. We're still a few years off for this.
And if expansion got to 40 dam right FIFA would step in. That many teams means the sport is viable and strong, no? Means a second division can be withstood.

[troy1982]

I agree the push for a winter schedule is a bit premature, but it must be incorporated somewhere down the line. Listen with the push for more expansion equals more games. Inevitably that pushes the league sooner and later into the calender. All then that has to be done is start the season n the middle of the year. We're still a few years off for this.
And if expansion got to 40 dam right FIFA would step in. That many teams means the sport is viable and strong, no? Means a second division can be withstood.

More expansion does not egual more games.
MLS has never had a balance schedule and will only have one next year with 16 teams, but that will only be for a year.

What does stepping in mean, MLS is going to just do what FIFA says and FIFA will not ban the US national team for what MLS does or doesn't do.
Why would FIFA step want to step in anyway aslong as a 30 game schedule is maintain.

[greatwhitenorf]

TFCRegina:

Ottawa will be just like Toronto in terms of MLS success. No chance of drawing fans to tier 2 soccer, every chance of packing the joint for top-flight soccer. We're both just so very fortunate that Montreal fans- love 'em or hate 'em - have hung in for so long and made MLS look harder at expanding into Canada.

With Toronto and Montreal in the competitive mix, Ottawa will do very well. MLS have done well spotting the possibilities with the Seattle-Vancouver-Portland trio and this will work equally well. Plus it will put a huge torpedo into the CFL and it's threadbare profit margins, which would eventually give us an expanded all-Canadian MLS conference with a team or two on the prairies.

[boban]

so, seeing how MLS involves TWO countries, wouldn't be okay to have 40?
Precisely why it won't go to 40.
A Canadian league will be sooner than 40 teams, ergo negating 40 teams.

[Roogsy]

It'll have to be separate games. The NCC has to end by a certain date for the winner to be decided in time for the CONCACAF perlim. I'm sure MLS wouldn't squeeze in all the games that quickly in the season to accomidate. What I'm saying is get rid of the Trillium Cup and add the extra match to Montreal, giving us 5 meetings with them

Shibby! :hump:

That would mean 4 games at least vs Montreal each season!!!

2 roadtrips to choose from.

2 massive home fixtures.

You could not ask for more for Canadian soccer.

[boban]

...which would eventually give us an expanded all-Canadian MLS conference with a team or two on the prairies.
At that point FIFA goes hello Canadian domestic league. :D

[Cashcleaner]

^ All Canadian rejoice. :D

[ForestGlade]

Back to the topic, any idea when an official announcement will be made?

[drewski]

Before I moved to Ottawa I wasn't sure whether or not pro soccer would make it here. Since moving I've really gotten the chance to see how big soccer is here, and now I definitely think a tier 1 team could do well (like somebody said, a tier 2 wouldn't work out, for the the most part, Ottawa only cares about top tier sports (besides hockey)).

They have to make it easy to for fans though and Kanata isn't easy. Driving time for me is about the same as it was for me when I lived in TO, but one big difference is that Toronto is central to the population, whereas Kanata is on the fringe fo the population

[boban]

Fifa is only concerned with the amount of games played not the number of teams. And since MLS is unlikely to play more than 30 games a season I don' tthink we have to worry about Fifa.
More games are coming sooner than you think. More games equals more $$$$$. For players and owners a like. You want more international talent to come here but teams can't compete because of salary cap and just plain dollars. Well more games gives an owner to get more money to chase the better talent.


Plus I can't see USSF, CSA or CONCACAF being against MLS having more than 20 or 30 teams.
But FIFA will. CSA always cries poor. With more teams, inevitably that means more interest in Canada. And that means more teams in Canada. And that means FIFA telling CSA to get your league going.

[TFCRegina]

TFCRegina:

Ottawa will be just like Toronto in terms of MLS success. No chance of drawing fans to tier 2 soccer, every chance of packing the joint for top-flight soccer. We're both just so very fortunate that Montreal fans- love 'em or hate 'em - have hung in for so long and made MLS look harder at expanding into Canada.

With Toronto and Montreal in the competitive mix, Ottawa will do very well. MLS have done well spotting the possibilities with the Seattle-Vancouver-Portland trio and this will work equally well. Plus it will put a huge torpedo into the CFL and it's threadbare profit margins, which would eventually give us an expanded all-Canadian MLS conference with a team or two on the prairies.

Pipe dream. Ottawa can't support anything. They nearly lost the Senators and hockey is far more important than football in this country.

[ag futbol]

But FIFA will. CSA always cries poor. With more teams, inevitably that means more interest in Canada. And that means more teams in Canada. And that means FIFA telling CSA to get your league going.
MLS isn't going to be told by FIFA how to run their business.

Again, i'd point out that they way things are going FIFA is becoming less important, big money clubs is becoming more important, and the way MLS is doing things is being looked at as a bit of a preview for the future.

This is all because in the end, nobody gives a shit about adherence to old rules, they care about money. MLS is providing a model that maximizes money, and that's not just going to be for it's owners, but for FIFA as well.

[Redcoe15]

Montréal seems to be all but assured of the 19th MLS expansion spot, unless something totally unexplainable happens (and with Joey Saputo at the reigns, anything's possible).

As for what happens next, anyone who thinks MLS should stop growing at 20 teams is delusional. This is not a league with a pro/reg system, nor will it ever be as long as teams are awarded based on financial wearwithal, stadium requirements, and population size. I can see MLS getting to 24 teams down the road. I think the league is very careful as to who can make the requirements to enter MLS.

As to who can make it in, here's my two cents on how the cities/regions look:

St. Louis. This city has deep, deep roots to the game. Participation and attendance is strong in the area. Jeff Cooper's been trying to land a team for years and has even got a stadium deal in place in nearby Collinsville, Illinois. The only thing he's lacking though is deep enough pockets that would satisfy MLS requirements. After Montréal, St. Louis seems the closest to landing a team and a near perfect choice.

New York 2. MLS would love to have a second team in the Big Apple for corporate and television reasons, despite the failings of the Shite Bulls. Mets owner Fred Wilpon looked as though he would commit to a soccer specific stadium next door to his new ball park in Flushing Meadows in Queens, where there seems to be a high level of interest in soccer. But because Wilpon got badly burned in the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme, a second New York team is in indefinite limbo.

Miami. Almost had a team, because of both FC Barcelona and billionare Marcelo Claure backing a joint bid, but pulled out because of questionable support from the community. The Fusion played there for a few seasons, but were contracted by the league. A large latin population makes it look desirable, but lack of support for most, if not all, of the area teams makes this city a very risky place to add a team.

Atlanta. Currently, the largest market in the U.S without an MLS team. Also the hub of the U.S southeast, where MLS does not have a presence. Falcons owner Arthur Blank has expressed strong interest, but has no SSS plan in place. Rumors are that he's concentrating on a new stadium for his NFL team. The area's reputation for being one of the worst sports markets in North America (along with Miami) does not help its case for a team.

Areas to also consider:

Phoenix/Las Vegas. Attractive markets, but may be questionable with their brutal hot weather in the summertime.

Tampa Bay. Success with the NASL's Rowdies, but the Mutiny were also contracted by MLS with Miami.

Detroit. A large market that has great support for its teams. But economy is hurting and may not look attractive to MLS (would make awesome rivals with TFC, IMHO).

Carolinas. The Battery and Railhawks are well represented in USL-1. Arguably, the best soccer market in the southeast.

San Diego. Beautiful city, with a decent soccer background. But would MLS add a fourth California team?

As for anymore Canadian teams, like Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, forget it! Ottawa would have been a dog with fleas had MLS granted a team to Eugene Melnyk out in Kanata. And with a new stadium going up in Lansdowne for a proposed CFL team, it's all but dead. Add to the fact they would be going head to head with CFL teams that have strong presences in their communities and the MLS still trying to chase American corporate and television dollars, well we Canadian soccer fans should thank our lucky stars that Toronto, Vancouver, and more than likely Montréal, will have a strong major pro soccer presence. The smaller Canadian cities might have a better shot getting in USL-1.

In conclusion, where should MLS go into next?



I haven't a fucking clue. :noidea:

[boban]

MLS isn't going to be told by FIFA how to run their business.

Again, i'd point out that they way things are going FIFA is becoming less important, big money clubs is becoming more important, and the way MLS is doing things is being looked at as a bit of a preview for the future.

This is all because in the end, nobody gives a shit about adherence to old rules, they care about money. MLS is providing a model that maximizes money, and that's not just going to be for it's owners, but for FIFA as well.
Games are still run under the FIFA rules and the inclusion into international associations for clubs (ex. CL). You want to play? You play by our rules. A lot of free will will be and is given to MLS. But there still are parameters under which they must fall under.
People have to get out of the NA sport mindset. This isn't the NFL or MLB where international rules for said given sport don't exist.

[troy1982]

Games are still run under the FIFA rules and the inclusion into international associations for clubs (ex. CL). You want to play? You play by our rules. A lot of free will will be and is given to MLS. But there still are parameters under which they must fall under.
People have to get out of the NA sport mindset. This isn't the NFL or MLB where international rules for said given sport don't exist.

CONCACAF runs the champions league and the USA is where most of the money in this federation comes from. There is no way CONCACAF will ban or exclude MLS, the Canadian and American Federation.

Anyways MLS teams don't care for international competition so what can FIFA or COCANCAF do?
Also FIFA wants MLS to be as succesful as possible because of $$$$$$

[Hitcho]

bring on the 20 team league!

then maybe we can split it into a two tier league all under the MLS umbrella.
still have revenue sharing amoungst all 20.
crown a league champ at season's end.
but allow the top 16 teams into the MLS Cup playoffs.
that would mean every team in MLS One and the top 6 from MLS Two.
I think that would make it very interesting...
there would be relegation, yet teams in MLS 2 would have financial support from MLS money sharing,
and have a crack at MLS Cup playoffs.

me likey...

Hey Flats, you're not trying to take sole credit for the Hitcho/Flatpicker League Model are you mate?! :D:D:D

Anyway, you got it wrong dude - instead of the play offs all 20 teams go into a knock out cup competition whcih runs throughout the season. At the end of the season, 3 trohpies are given out: MLS Elite League winners, MLS Championship League winners and MLS (sponsor name) Cup winners. Only thing left to decide is how many go up and down each season between Elite and CHampionship - 2 or 3 teams...

[troy1982]

Well that's true. I mean let's face it, the criteria for getting a team is basically having the expansion fee and a stadium in place. I agree that any city could theoretically be given a franchise, but I'm talking about enjoying a successful one. A place like Atlanta or Las Vegas could always be awarded a team, but how long would it last in such places?

The league has no use for more Columbus Crews or Kansas City Wizards and their abysmal attendance records.

The only way to know if a team will be successful in MLS is to have an actual team. There is no science to study to know if it will work or not.

I am sure a lot of people wouldn't have thought MLS wouldn't have worked in Salt Lake but they have always had strong attendance with a team that usually plays bad.

[boban]

CONCACAF runs the champions league and the USA is where most of the money in this federation comes from. There is no way CONCACAF will ban or exclude MLS, the Canadian and American Federation.Who said anything about banning? You read too much into that.


Anyways MLS teams don't care for international competition so what can FIFA or COCANCAF do?
Also FIFA wants MLS to be as succesful as possible because of $$$$$$
MLS will care. Only way to get international recognition is when it goes deep and wins the CL a few times.
Having 40 teams or 20 teams and/or a separate Canadian domestic league has absolutely zilch to do with MLS if it is successful or not.

[Keystone FC]

Question: In 2011 when all 3 Canadian teams are in the MLS; will we play seperate cup games for the NCC or will the league games just count as the NCC games as well? I'd assume no but as the league expands, we play more games, and have no roster depth.. its an attractive option.

They could do the NCC within the MLS schedule but the games would have to come very early in the season which could come into conflict with other matches that need to be played to make the season balanced with outher clubs.
I would think a seperate schedule would be better since there are only 3 clubs in the tournament...so far.

[Keystone FC]

Cancel the Trillium Cup, we got a better rivalry trophy. Bring on the Poutine Cup!

:flare::canada::flare::canada::flare::canada::flar e::canada:

[Keystone FC]

Hopefully there will be some USL expansion to replace VAN and MTL, open NCC to lower league teams, with some sort of play in.

Victoria, BC Highlanders in the PDL has expressed interest in taking over the USL 1 slot that Vancouver would vacate.
Not to mention Hamilton has been mentioned as a possiblity.
I would love to see Toronto Lynx come up to USL 2 or have a Montreal club come up to USL 2 for more spots in the NCC and create more rivals within the NCC (Like we need them).

[boban]

They could do the NCC within the MLS schedule but the games would have to come very early in the season which could come into conflict with other matches that need to be played to make the season balanced with outher clubs.
I would think a seperate schedule would be better since there are only 3 clubs in the tournament...so far.
The US based teams play the US Open cup.
Canadian teams should play for the Voyageurs Cup.
Separate games outside the MLS schedule, as it should be.

[Keystone FC]

MLS will not stop expanding if strong ownership and stadiums deals are in place.

Could you see MLS saying no to following cities if they had the above.

Atlanta No
Miami Maybe if they get the cash
San Diego Chivas MAY be headed that way
Detroit HAHAHAHAHAHAH (Sorry TFC USA)
Cleveland / Cincinnati HAHAHAHAHAHA x 2
Pittsburgh No (I would LOVE for this to happen but the Riverhounds only get 2,000 a home game)
Phoenix / Las Vegas NO
San Antonio / Austin No
Orlando / Tampa Bay TB will be getting the Rowdies back next season in the USL 1 so who knows.
NYC2 on hold
Carolina (anywhere within these states) No
Baltimore If DCU can't get there SSS situation straighted out...maybe
San Francesco No (LA, Chivas, SJ...3 is enough in Cali)
Sacramento No (see above)
St. Louis Looks like a no go
Toronto2 in the NHL sure...MLS...no
Ottawa No


I am just saying there is alot of large American cities out there.

NYC2 is the biggest contender in this bunch not to mention that Garber WANTS a club in NYC.

[Keystone FC]

The US based teams play the US Open cup.
Canadian teams should play for the Voyageurs Cup.
Separate games outside the MLS schedule, as it should be.

Yeah, I know but this is the MLS an AMERICAN soccer league (as Bill Archer loves to throw in our face) and I can see them making them play the NCC within the league schedule. The USSF backs the US Open Cup and I don't think the CSA backs up the NCC so there is less leverage. I don't know I can just see it going both ways.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I agree on so many accounts - and Ottawa is one of the worst sports towns in Canada. St. John's Newfoundland would probably support a team better. I've been to a few Sens games, it is ridiculous trying to get there... And basically you HAVE to drive.


Ottawa is a great sports town..ok Kanata is not the easiest place to get too,,but that aside they support their teams, the senators and 67s, please dont bring up the cfl cause that douchebag league doesnt deserve support or minor league baseball///MLS woube be better off there then in Montreal, i pray to god Montreal Never gets in.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Ottawa is such a great sports town that they've gone through no less than 2 CFL clubs, 2 minor league/semi-pro baseball clubs, and have some of the lowest attendance for OUA/CIS sports aside from college hockey.

Yeah, sounds like a recipe for success. :rolleyes:

[Cashcleaner]

The US based teams play the US Open cup.
Canadian teams should play for the Voyageurs Cup.
Separate games outside the MLS schedule, as it should be.

That's the likeliest of scenarios and why the V-Cup will continue to be our most important competition - it gets us to CONCACAF whereas our MLS standings won't.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

^ Ottawa is such a great sports town that they've gone through no less than 2 CFL clubs, 2 minor league/semi-pro baseball clubs, and have some of the lowest attendance for OUA/CIS sports aside from college hockey.

Yeah, sounds like a recipe for success. :rolleyes:


No good sports city would want to support the CFL, its minor league gridiron football...semi pro baseball theres a yawn...canadian collage sports..who cares!! Ottawa will support big league sports not mediocre small time crap

[boban]

Yeah, I know but this is the MLS an AMERICAN soccer league (as Bill Archer loves to throw in our face) and I can see them making them play the NCC within the league schedule. The USSF backs the US Open Cup and I don't think the CSA backs up the NCC so there is less leverage. I don't know I can just see it going both ways.
Well you think wrong. The CSA does back the NCC.
And you MLS is american comment. LOL.. True, but its run under FIFA rules.
This ain't the days of the NASL.

Another point to add is in a few years, most likely by the time Montreal is in USL, there will new Canadian teams in the USL.
And these new USL will have every right to fight and play for the NCC.

[Wagner]

MLS will not stop expanding if strong ownership and stadiums deals are in place.

Could you see MLS saying no to following cities if they had the above.

Atlanta
Miami
San Diego
Detroit
Cleveland / Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Phoenix / Las Vegas
San Antonio / Austin
Orlando / Tampa Bay
NYC2
Carolina (anywhere within these states)
Baltimore
San Francesco
Sacramento
St. Louis
Toronto2
Ottawa


I am just saying there is alot of large American cities out there.

to expand on cashzilla's thoughts....
Baltimore = DC
Toronto 2 = it's the same guys that won't allow a hockey team in hamilton
San Fran = San Jose
San Diego = only is Chivas moves there.
Ohio = columbus is already there
There are already 2 texas teams....

[Redcoe15]

Ottawa is a great sports town..ok Kanata is not the easiest place to get too,,but that aside they support their teams, the senators and 67s, please dont bring up the cfl cause that douchebag league doesnt deserve support or minor league baseball///MLS woube be better off there then in Montreal, i pray to god Montreal Never gets in.


No good sports city would want to support the CFL, its minor league gridiron football...semi pro baseball theres a yawn...canadian collage sports..who cares!! Ottawa will support big league sports not mediocre small time crap
:picard: :facepalm: :picard: :facepalm: :picard: :facepalm: :picard: Gawd, not this fucking shit again!

[Shakes McQueen]

mighty_torontofc says some of the nuttiest stuff on this website. Hands down.

He reminds me of a more aggressive Karl Pilkington.

- Scott

[Cashcleaner]

No good sports city would want to support the CFL, its minor league gridiron football...semi pro baseball theres a yawn...canadian collage sports..who cares!! Ottawa will support big league sports not mediocre small time crap

Your ignorance is truly astounding. I especially love the blatant disregard toward logic and common sense when it doesn't fit into your skewed perception of reality.

My hat is off good sir. If only we saw more of you on the boards, perhaps we'd be able to study that brilliant mind of yours just a little bit more.

[AdamZ]

No good sports city would want to support the CFL, its minor league gridiron football...semi pro baseball theres a yawn...canadian collage sports..who cares!! Ottawa will support big league sports not mediocre small time crap
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

[troy1982]

to expand on cashzilla's thoughts....
.....
Ohio = columbus is already there
......

you do know that ohio has 12 million people right and 3 large cities 2 of which are bigger than Columbus


1 Cincinnati 2,155,137
2 Cleveland 2,088,291
3 Columbus 1,773,120

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Your ignorance is truly astounding. I especially love the blatant disregard toward logic and common sense when it doesn't fit into your skewed perception of reality.

My hat is off good sir. If only we saw more of you on the boards, perhaps we'd be able to study that brilliant mind of yours just a little bit more.


o hope you are not trying to say the cfl, and canadian collage sports are great...as they would get stomped on by their american cousins without working up a sweat..Lets face it Toronto has the CFL cause its the only girdirion it will ever have..and they have to accept it..canadian collage sports ?? if given a chance which would most canadian sports fans watch, a ncaa football match between say Notre Dame and Michigan or
a canadian match up of the u of T and York? there would be no contest
as the ncaa has more fans up here the the canadian collages can put in their broken down stadiums..

[Dirk Diggler]

you do know that ohio has 12 million people right and 3 large cities 2 of which are bigger than Columbus


1 Cincinnati 2,155,137
2 Cleveland 2,088,291
3 Columbus 1,773,120

It doesn't matter if there are bigger cities ... there is no reason to super saturate a market that already struggles to support the one existing team. I realize that Cinci is far enough away and is a much bigger city but I honestly don't believe there is a market for soccer there.

[Kaz]

Ottawa is not a place for a current expansion... MLS logically should be expanding into proven Canadian Markets, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. If Ottawa is too much of a snub city to support a lower league team then they don't deserve it.

That being said for Canadian soccer I would really like to see an evolution of a strong national amateur club league system here. That would result in four Teir 4 leagues, 2 teir 3 leagues, and 1 teir 2 leagues where the top two teams compete against the MLS teams for the CC. But that is just me, it seemed to work for hockey, Kenora after all did win a Stanley Cup against the Montreal Wanders.

but it'll never happen so meh.. lol

[Roogsy]

Honestly the ideal league setup is 20 teams with 3 teams in Canada.

And for Americans like Bill "douchebag" Archer to complain only shows their ignorance.

The Canadian dollar has appreciated 15% against the US dollar since January and is projected to head back to parity within the year or maybe even past, depending on oil prices and other factors.

That means the revenue created by Canadian teams is worth even more to the league now. Canada is a cash machine for the MLS right now and Garber knows it. That's why he's playing forgive and forget with Montreal. He wants their money. End of story.

[billyfly]

MTL in MLS? - Ladies and Gentlmen start your Hate-On!

[dupont]

That's why he's playing forgive and forget with Montreal. He wants their money. End of story.

He would be an idiot to not run his business in this smart way, that's for sure.

As a side-effect, it will be better for US soccer anyways if the league is on sound financial ground.

[Roogsy]

As a side-effect, it will be better for US soccer anyways if the league is on sound financial ground.

In this economic environment, that requires Canadian involvement. We are on much better financial footing than the US whose economic difficulties will linger for some time. With the C$ (and other currencies) projected to take off vs the U$ and their massive defecit, Garber's business plan would have to include some sort of foreign currency strategy.

The easiest and most accessible FX strategy for the league is expansion into Canada.

[troy1982]

It doesn't matter if there are bigger cities ... there is no reason to super saturate a market that already struggles to support the one existing team. I realize that Cinci is far enough away and is a much bigger city but I honestly don't believe there is a market for soccer there.

Cincinnati is 160 Km from Columbus (Think Toronto to London)
Cleveland is 200 Km from Columbus (Think Oshawa to London)
Cleveland and Cincinnati are 350 Km apart (Think Toronto to Ottawa)

with these distance you aren't saturating a market because people in Cincinnati and Cleveland don't get news from Columbus or each other and don't travel to MLS games in any great numbers to Columbus. An inter-state derby would be great for Columbus especially since it doesn't exist in any other league.

[Cashcleaner]

o hope you are not trying to say the cfl, and canadian collage sports are great...as they would get stomped on by their american cousins without working up a sweat..Lets face it Toronto has the CFL cause its the only girdirion it will ever have..and they have to accept it..canadian collage sports ?? if given a chance which would most canadian sports fans watch, a ncaa football match between say Notre Dame and Michigan or
a canadian match up of the u of T and York? there would be no contest
as the ncaa has more fans up here the the canadian collages can put in their broken down stadiums..

Astounding observation, but has absolutely nothing to do with the argument over the claim of Ottawa being a "great sports town".

But by all means, continue your nonsensical rant about things that have nothing to do with the point.

[troy1982]

Honestly the ideal league setup is 20 teams with 3 teams in Canada.

And for Americans like Bill "douchebag" Archer to complain only shows their ignorance.

The Canadian dollar has appreciated 15% against the US dollar since January and is projected to head back to parity within the year or maybe even past, depending on oil prices and other factors.

That means the revenue created by Canadian teams is worth even more to the league now. Canada is a cash machine for the MLS right now and Garber knows it. That's why he's playing forgive and forget with Montreal. He wants their money. End of story.

why is the number 20 so perfect for a league, why not 21, 22,24,18, why does 20 make you feel so great inside.
I hope you don't think the number is ideal because that is how many teams the league in England has. (a nation of 55 million compared to 340 million in Canada + USA)

I really don't think Garber was phased by Saputo's childish rant against the league because Garber is a business man first not a petulant teenagers, he isn't going make decisions on who he likes and who he doesn't. the league will gets 3 new team who will pay 35 million and Saputo stadium will be getting the necessary upgrades so Garber played all the cards right on this one.

[squarehead]

I just can't take a person that doesn't know how to spell "college" seriously

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Astounding observation, but has absolutely nothing to do with the argument over the claim of Ottawa being a "great sports town".

But by all means, continue your nonsensical rant about things that have nothing to do with the point.

Ottawa supports the Sen and 67s to full houses hows the not being a great sports city..? for get the cfl and monor league ball as they are
not important in the sports scene...toronto on the other hand have had
teams fold too..Toronto arenas, Toronto Marlies (OHL) Toronto Roadrunners (AHL) Toronto shooting stars indoor lacrosse and indoor soccer, Toronto Blizzard, Toronto city, toronto lynx soccer, Toronto;s original entry in the NBA in its first season...so do we not put teams in toronto due to past failires??? and the Blue Jays will be next to :)fold/relocate as the cant compete in Toronto..Ottawa is more the fine as a sports city

[redcard]

That's the likeliest of scenarios and why the V-Cup will continue to be our most important competition - it gets us to CONCACAF whereas our MLS standings won't.

i would hope that, that would change...with 3 canadian teams, i dont see why we couldnt get in to CCL as MLS champs...

what is the reason we cant enter via mls anyway?

[werewolf]

the spots belong to the USSF.

[Super]

I for one am extremely delighted to see Montreal join the MLS in 2011. The Impact has always enjoyed great support, and no doubt this support would continue when they switch over to the MLS - and in fact grow. I wouldn't be surprised if they see support similar to that of Toronto FC. I hope so - it would be good for the league and good for our rivalry. And so ends anything positive I will EVER say about that city, and that team ;)

[Cashcleaner]

Ottawa supports the Sen and 67s to full houses hows the not being a great sports city..? for get the cfl and monor league ball as they are
not important in the sports scene...toronto on the other hand have had
teams fold too..Toronto arenas, Toronto Marlies (OHL) Toronto Roadrunners (AHL) Toronto shooting stars indoor lacrosse and indoor soccer, Toronto Blizzard, Toronto city, toronto lynx soccer, Toronto;s original entry in the NBA in its first season...so do we not put teams in toronto due to past failires??? and the Blue Jays will be next to :)fold/relocate as the cant compete in Toronto..Ottawa is more the fine as a sports city

Sure, as long as those sports are played in and arena during winter months on ice and are called "hockey".

Hmmmm, I'm noticing a funny trend in your arguments, though. You don't want to acknowledge the weak status of college, minor league, or other sports when it comes to Ottawa; but will bring them up with regards to Toronto's past failures. If, according to you, they're not important in the sports scene, why the need for the comparison?

[Redcoe15]

Ottawa supports the Sen and 67s to full houses hows the not being a great sports city..? for get the cfl and monor league ball as they are
not important in the sports scene...toronto on the other hand have had
teams fold too..Toronto arenas, Toronto Marlies (OHL) Toronto Roadrunners (AHL) Toronto shooting stars indoor lacrosse and indoor soccer, Toronto Blizzard, Toronto city, toronto lynx soccer, Toronto;s original entry in the NBA in its first season...so do we not put teams in toronto due to past failires??? and the Blue Jays will be next to :)fold/relocate as the cant compete in Toronto..Ottawa is more the fine as a sports city
Everyone read this post carefully. English was definitely not this guy's best subject in school.

[JamboAl]

Let's assume Garber's a prudent businessman who wants a successful, profitable operation and wants to put in a new franchise. He has two choices:

1) a city which has no stadium plans, a city council that can't decide on anything without years of consultation, no history of supporting teams in outdoor summer spectator sports, but has an owner who would love to build a lovely 30,000 seat stadium far from its target demographic with no reasonable links to public transit

2) a city having a multicultural population three times that of the first city, currently supports a team with regular 11,000 attendances and can draw over 55,000 for a game in a stadium already available to it; easy access to public transit and will likely draw fans from all over N. America since it is a vacation destination.

So mighty_torontofc, which city would you prefer to put your team in? And In case you are asking, Ottawa is not option 2.

[drewski]

If Ottawa is too much of a snub city to support a lower league team then they don't deserve it.


by that logic Toronto shouldn't have gotten one. Look how well supported the Lynx were


The people who probably know best, ie. people who've lived in Ottawa for a long time (and aren't particularly dedicated to any one sport), have all told me that around here is that the CFL is done whereas soccer has a good chance to thrive.

With the money and love of sports Melynk has, the team will have time to grow while still being able to take a loss

[georgesd]

My take is that Garber will announce expansion to Montreal in 2011. It could be delayed 2 to 3 months though. Part of the delay could be due to politics. Not necessarily Quebec City politics where basically 25M$ is slated for Saputo Stadium expansion.

It could come from Portland where the complexity of their stadium woes defies my ability to grasp the imponderables and the givens. If you read this July 25th article at http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/07/31_million_pge_park_renovation.html, you'll appreciate the possibilities or possibly the improbabilities of their stadium problems.

I believe Garber will expand to Montreal in 2011 IF Portland can't guarantee their stadium. Portland is in an economic situation which has polarized a majority of Portland residents vs soccer fans, not to forget their baseball stadium woes.

So, as I mentioned above, if Portland don't get their stadium (re)built as a SSS or simply can't harness the financing, expect Garber to bring Montreal on board by 2011. If not, Montreal by 2012 and possibly in 2011.

Overall though, Garber's comments reflect that neither he nor MLS can afford NOT to bring Montreal on-board short-term!

Georges D

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Montreal absolutely must get in in either 2011 or 2012. They're a better market than all but a few of the cities currently in MLS, it would be moronic not to want that in the league.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Well, I have a feeling that everything is more-or-less up to Saputo, and I got no idea what his plans are. The Impact could continue to play and thrive quite well in USL1, but an MLS club has more potential for profit. Obviously before he was interested in snatching up a franchise, but his low-ball bid scheme certainly caused some confusion.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Let's assume Garber's a prudent businessman who wants a successful, profitable operation and wants to put in a new franchise. He has two choices:

1) a city which has no stadium plans, a city council that can't decide on anything without years of consultation, no history of supporting teams in outdoor summer spectator sports, but has an owner who would love to build a lovely 30,000 seat stadium far from its target demographic with no reasonable links to public transit

2) a city having a multicultural population three times that of the first city, currently supports a team with regular 11,000 attendances and can draw over 55,000 for a game in a stadium already available to it; easy access to public transit and will likely draw fans from all over N. America since it is a vacation destination.

So mighty_torontofc, which city would you prefer to put your team in? And In case you are asking, Ottawa is not option 2.


I would put a team in any city.....except Montreal!!

[Roogsy]

I would put a team in any city.....except Montreal!!

We're glad you're not running any type of business! :D

Seriously, the case to be made for Montreal over Ottawa is so concrete, Ottawa never had a chance. Especially after the city council pretty much signaled preference of the CFL over MLS. It was game over. Ottawa will not see an MLS franchise in our lifetime.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

by that logic Toronto shouldn't have gotten one. Look how well supported the Lynx were


The people who probably know best, ie. people who've lived in Ottawa for a long time (and aren't particularly dedicated to any one sport), have all told me that around here is that the CFL is done whereas soccer has a good chance to thrive.

With the money and love of sports Melynk has, the team will have time to grow while still being able to take a loss


Toronto fans have a big jealous on for Ottawa...Ottawa has the better NHL team, Better arena, while Toronto teams just plain suck..Leafs Raptors, Argos,Rock, Jays,lynx, Toronto didnt get tagged the city of losers for nothing!! Ottawa i sure hope beats out Montreal for entry in MLS...but im sure saputo will do more damage to his chances in the near future.

[BuSaPuNk]

Ottawa supports the Sen and 67s to full houses hows the not being a great sports city..? for get the cfl and monor league ball as they are
not important in the sports scene...toronto on the other hand have had
teams fold too..Toronto arenas, Toronto Marlies (OHL) Toronto Roadrunners (AHL) Toronto shooting stars indoor lacrosse and indoor soccer, Toronto Blizzard, Toronto city, toronto lynx soccer, Toronto;s original entry in the NBA in its first season...so do we not put teams in toronto due to past failires??? and the Blue Jays will be next to :)fold/relocate as the cant compete in Toronto..Ottawa is more the fine as a sports city

Hockey is a different beast in Toronto. There is such overcoverage of the Leafs during the season or even the offseason. The Leafs are talked about at all times on sports radio in the pubs it nutz. Hockey fans in Toronto (the majority of them..) only care about the Leafs. Leafs games are sold out an hour into the seasons tickets coming out. People care about the leafs. Look at the World Hockey Championship or World Cup of Hockey when it was in TO. There were tickets available up to the day of the game and Canada was in the finals!!!

[BallardSounder]

<snip?
It could come from Portland where the complexity of their stadium woes defies my ability to grasp the imponderables and the givens. If you read this July 25th article at http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/07/31_million_pge_park_renovation.html, you'll appreciate the possibilities or possibly the improbabilities of their stadium problems.

I believe Garber will expand to Montreal in 2011 IF Portland can't guarantee their stadium. Portland is in an economic situation which has polarized a majority of Portland residents vs soccer fans, not to forget their baseball stadium woes. <snip>

Georges D

Portland is pretty much a sure thing at this point, and I believe Garber knows it. So, while the deal is somewhat complicated, it is basically complete.

I also wouldn't read too much into the comments section on the link there. They're mostly the same cast of loudmouth characters and don't really represent the overall picture of the city, which is pretty overwhelmingly supportive of bringing this MLS in.

The Timbers "Army" went all ultra-aggro'-hate a few years ago, so they do tend to polarize things a bit more than they need to be, but Portland IS a good soccer town and they'll be a great addition to the league.

[Roogsy]

Toronto fans have a big jealous on for Ottawa...Ottawa has the better NHL team, Better arena, while Toronto teams just plain suck..Leafs Raptors, Argos,Rock, Jays,lynx, Toronto didnt get tagged the city of losers for nothing!! Ottawa i sure hope beats out Montreal for entry in MLS...but im sure saputo will do more damage to his chances in the near future.

Jealous? LOL!

We find Ottawa annoying. The only time our attention is directed to Ottawa is when we are reminded our Federal government often implements policies on the backs of it's cities in favour of rural votes. We have nothing to be jealous of. Ottawa is an adminstrative city with nothing of interest to anyone.

I don't know why you have a hard-on for Ottawa but you're pretty much the only one. Even my friends who are Senator fans are not fans of Ottawa the city but rather simply Senator fans out of spite for Leaf fans. But in every other respect, they prefer Toronto over Ottawa any day.

Ottawa = Irrelevant.

And because of that, they will never get a sports team of any importance. They can't support anything other than the Senators and everyone knows it.

[Dirk Diggler]

Man fuck Ottawa ... stop feeding the troll guys.

All I want to say is that I absolutely hope Montreal gets in the league sometime in the near future. 3 Canadian teams in the MLS will be a huge boost to the sport in the country. To be honest, I'm also very excited about the Whitecaps coming into the MLS with the renovated BC Stadium. I know the situation is not going to be ideal with the field turf but if they maintain it like Seattle, it'll be a damn good stadium and atmosphere none the less.

[JamboAl]

I would put a team in any city.....except Montreal!!

Dude, you're delusional! I live in Ottawa, I love Ottawa as a city, but how can you drink the Kool-Aid if you don't know what it's like here.

[Keystone FC]

Well you think wrong. The CSA does back the NCC.
And you MLS is american comment. LOL.. True, but its run under FIFA rules.
This ain't the days of the NASL.

Another point to add is in a few years, most likely by the time Montreal is in USL, there will new Canadian teams in the USL.
And these new USL will have every right to fight and play for the NCC.

Really? I thought is was just a in country competition. Good to hear that it has the backing of the CSA.
You are right about Canadian clubs in the USL. There will be more added and also added to the NCC.
:canada:

[Keystone FC]

Cincinnati is 160 Km from Columbus (Think Toronto to London)
Cleveland is 200 Km from Columbus (Think Oshawa to London)
Cleveland and Cincinnati are 350 Km apart (Think Toronto to Ottawa)

with these distance you aren't saturating a market because people in Cincinnati and Cleveland don't get news from Columbus or each other and don't travel to MLS games in any great numbers to Columbus. An inter-state derby would be great for Columbus especially since it doesn't exist in any other league.

There is no market in Cincinnati. It's basically High School soccer and after that there is no interest. They did have a USL club (Cincinnati Kings) but moved down to PDL status and even moved across the river to Kentucky but kept the Cincinnati monikor. They couldn't draw people even with Pittsburgh and Cleveland playing them.
Cleveland would be the best option but the interest is weak at best. There was a push from a group to get a MLS team but the wanted the stadium almost in Akron? Just think that Drew Carey is from Cleveland and help put a club in Seattle?
You are right about marketing and news. I just live an hour south of CBus and get NOTHING about the Crew as far as media outlets (Thank God) yet I get plenty of news about the Reds, Bengals, Cavs, Indians, Browns, OSU...etc, which I could not care less about.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

We're glad you're not running any type of business! :D

Seriously, the case to be made for Montreal over Ottawa is so concrete, Ottawa never had a chance. Especially after the city council pretty much signaled preference of the CFL over MLS. It was game over. Ottawa will not see an MLS franchise in our lifetime.


I seriously douby Montreal will get one too..praying to god....just because MTL is a decent USL city , doesnt mean it will be a good MLS one. The Montreal Manic used to be a good soccer team in Montreal..but that didnt last either..i would have been happy if TFC was the only Canaduan team in MLS...now we got the Caps...ugh... well keep it at two.

[Redcoe15]

I seriously douby Montreal will get one too..praying to god....just because MTL is a decent USL city , doesnt mean it will be a good MLS one. The Montreal Manic used to be a good soccer team in Montreal..but that didnt last either..i would have been happy if TFC was the only Canaduan team in MLS...now we got the Caps...ugh... well keep it at two.
Says the guy who would want Jeff Cunningham on his team and not DeRo. :facepalm: :frown2:

[Hitcho]

glad to hear montreal are slated to join MLS soon.

bit sick at the thought of them having a revamped stadium which looks way better than ours does though.

TFC should be getting the pink cows stadium. although having said that, man do i love the nuts and bolts of BMO Field. for better or worse it's home now, and that's what counts.

[kodiakTFC]

I seriously douby Montreal will get one too..praying to god....just because MTL is a decent USL city , doesnt mean it will be a good MLS one. The Montreal Manic used to be a good soccer team in Montreal..but that didnt last either..i would have been happy if TFC was the only Canaduan team in MLS...now we got the Caps...ugh... well keep it at two.

Montreal is not a decent USL city, they are the enigma of the league. While the 2nd highest team in USL averages 8000 (usually around 7000), the league average around 4500; the impact have averaged 13k! With a step up in quality, media coverage, and spectacle.. you honestly think that Montreal wouldn't see even more success? They got 55k for a Champions League game for christ sake. Montreal deserves a team and they would be a massive success.

[Hitcho]

^ that's significantly more than some MLS teams average (*cough columbus cough*).

the 55k for the CL 1/4's was impressive, regardless of how they got there by giving tickets away etc.

there's at least one game they will sell out for each season though - BRING IT ON!!! :D:D:D

:scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf:

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Says the guy who would want Jeff Cunningham on his team and not DeRo. :facepalm: :frown2:


which one remind me has the most MLS goals!!:picard:

[ExiledRed]

which one remind me has the most MLS goals!!:picard:
Which one, remind me, has the most goals for TFC?

Oh yeah, and remind me which one of those has played the most minutes for TFC?

Seriously, they should ban you for being a shit-stirring troll, It's obvious that you only throw the shit out there that you do, because you're guaranteed to get a stark reaction.

Nobody could possibly be as dumb as the person you are pretending to be.

Not even you.

[kodiakTFC]

^ that's significantly more than some MLS teams average (*cough columbus cough*).

the 55k for the CL 1/4's was impressive, regardless of how they got there by giving tickets away etc.

there's at least one game they will sell out for each season though - BRING IT ON!!! :D:D:D

:scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf:

Montreal this season has averaged 12,060 which doesn't beat Columbus in attendance but is beating SJ Earthquakes(11,513), KC Wizards(9,789), & FC Dallas(9,306). Also they are very close to Chicago Fire(12,839), NY Red Bulls(12,702), and Colorado Rapids(12,431). I'd imagine an MLS team could do 22-25k.

According to numbers which were last updated on 7/24.

[Cashcleaner]

Which one, remind me, has the most goals for TFC?

Oh yeah, and remind me which one of those has played the most minutes for TFC?

Seriously, they should ban you for being a shit-stirring troll, It's obvious that you only throw the shit out there that you do, because you're guaranteed to get a stark reaction.

Nobody could possibly be as dumb as the person you are pretending to be.

Not even you.

And can you believe the guy is single! :eek:

[georgesd]

As a native Montrealer and Impact fan Montreal could accommodate upwards of 20k per MLS match. There is one caveat though IMHO, after a period of grace say 2 full seasons, Montreal fans will expect a winner on the field, otherwise attendance will slack off a bit.

Joey Saputo isn't stupid and he's followed what TFC and especially Seattle have done to reach such high numbers. Impact must finish strong this season otherwise Garber will wait until 2012 for Montreal's debut in MLS. Joey Saputo's temper tantrum, if you haven't heard, two days ago, hopefully serves up the message to his top players.

In the friendly vs River Plate, the Impact had the better of the play and the best scoring chances under a deluge of rain. Now they need to translate this in USL1 championship play. I could go into a serious analysis of Impact play since winter but maybe I'll save it for a rainy day. Could be good fodder for a serious chat here at RPB.

Tough luck for TFC in CCL. It shows that it isn't easy to win at such a high level of play. I say this: top tier USL1 teams on a given day come out to win at all costs. PRI are a helluva team, like the Impact were up until the Santos Laguna away debacle.

TFC now have a taste of what it takes. Above all, imho, it takes playing for the team. I've watched both CCL games and did not see in TFC play any sense of urgency and saw a great deal of individual play, or is it ego, that got in the way to performing at this level.

I'm convinced it's an investment that TFC had to make to become a better team. Of course, much has to change within the TFC ranks to ensure that change, correct change, is implemented. TFC fans and bloggers are a big part of this but the 'frustration' has to be coordinated more efficiently so the 'medium supports the message'.

One of the first changes that have to occur is the belief that MLS is a superior league to USL1. Until Vancouver, Portland and soon to be Montreal don't arrive in MLS, this belief is reeking with self-aggrandizement and downright "head in the sand" syndrome. There are too many ways to skin a cat, if you can catch it in the first place. USL1 is the cat and up until now MLS hasn't caught it and won't in the foreseeable future, i.e. 2011-2012.

I feel for your loss to PRI. But you have to get over it. MLS TFC rankings in season championship is good. It could get better. And the playoffs could be something to look forward to. So I say: Go for it! Best of luck.

Georges D

P.S. I ask this question:

Who, in the coaching staff, management or ownership at TFC has the "balls" to speak out and shake up this team, as Joey Saputo did when his Impact team faltered in the dying seconds of the 1-1 tie vs Miami?

I say this because, when the coach doesn't have the required respect and fear from his players, as both Impact and TFC coaching staff don't have such fear, then WHO IS THERE at TFC to do it????

Until there is someone who'll stand up, it could be stagnation for want of a better term. It seems to me that TFC/RPB fans have more "balls" that TFC ownership. So what now and where does it go??

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Which one, remind me, has the most goals for TFC?

Oh yeah, and remind me which one of those has played the most minutes for TFC?

Seriously, they should ban you for being a shit-stirring troll, It's obvious that you only throw the shit out there that you do, because you're guaranteed to get a stark reaction.

Nobody could possibly be as dumb as the person you are pretending to be.

Not even you.


it was hard for Cunny to play while on the bench?? its just MY opinion i prefer Cunny as a football to DeRo...both have the same qualities good and bad..could score goals and both selfish on the ball....just reming me again what deRo did in the 2 legs with the PT Islanders...2 balls over the net and a wasted 40 yard shot, while one of our players was in a offsdie position..

[SilverSamurai]

Damn it Montreal better not mess it up again this time. They should be in MLS and I think w/ an MLS franchise they'd be able get a decent attendance and have good support.
Saputo just needs to sell more of this:
http://www.saputo.ca/upload/Fromage/zjjj2269.jpeg
Make it happen!
Besides, it would make for an awesome away trip. Nice and close and no KKKrew crap to put up with.
And you can't forget the magical poutine. :)

[kodiakTFC]

it was hard for Cunny to play while on the bench?? its just MY opinion i prefer Cunny as a football to DeRo...both have the same qualities good and bad..could score goals and both selfish on the ball....just reming me again what deRo did in the 2 legs with the PT Islanders...2 balls over the net and a wasted 40 yard shot, while one of our players was in a offsdie position..

What did Cunny EVER do for us? He was terrible and every time he had the ball it was just a matter of time because he messed it up. It is amazing but everything you post is just utterly ridiculous and opposite to reality.

1. You don't think Montreal can support a MLS team regardless of their USL team averaging more than nearly half the MLS.

2. You think Cunningham is better than DeRo. The same DeRo who has 11 goals in 24 TFC caps while Cunny had 6 across 36 games.

I disagree that DeRo is selfish, he is a realist, no one on TFC was worth passing to so he went for goal. Optimistic perhaps but DeRo has the quality to actually strike well from there. Cunny on the other hand is useless and never showed any hustle or skill for this team. I'd rather have Chad Barrett than Cunny, at least Barrett plays his ass off.

[Dirk Diggler]

BTW, how is Montreal going to fund the renovation of their stadium? I remember that was a sticking point the last time around ... are they going to ask the province for help or what?

[redcard]

BTW, how is Montreal going to fund the renovation of their stadium? I remember that was a sticking point the last time around ... are they going to ask the province for help or what?

i think the province is giving them $25mill under some infrastructure upgrade clause but georgesd could answer that for us...

[Cashcleaner]

^ Yep, that's basically it. I don't recall the exact number, but the Province is giving Saputo a bucketful of gold to expand Stade Saputo. I wouldn't be surprised if its part of a larger scheme to revitalize Olympic Park.

[SilverSamurai]

i think the province is giving them $25mill under some infrastructure upgrade clause but georgesd could answer that for us...
Ya that's how. They're trying to get the Fed and Provincial govts to do it since they did the same for TO.
Not sure if the Feds would do it seeing as how they pretty much hate all cities east of Manitoba...
But I could see the Quebec Libs doing it...
Guess we'll have to see how it pans out.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

What did Cunny EVER do for us? He was terrible and every time he had the ball it was just a matter of time because he messed it up. It is amazing but everything you post is just utterly ridiculous and opposite to reality.

1. You don't think Montreal can support a MLS team regardless of their USL team averaging more than nearly half the MLS.

2. You think Cunningham is better than DeRo. The same DeRo who has 11 goals in 24 TFC caps while Cunny had 6 across 36 games.

I disagree that DeRo is selfish, he is a realist, no one on TFC was worth passing to so he went for goal. Optimistic perhaps but DeRo has the quality to actually strike well from there. Cunny on the other hand is useless and never showed any hustle or skill for this team. I'd rather have Chad Barrett than Cunny, at least Barrett plays his ass off.


Look at the toal goals Cunny has scored in MLS compared to DeRo, yes that stat alone means hes a better player..goalscorer anyways.. as far as the long shot..he may have the ability to put it in...but from that distance
it likely wasn;'t so he should have held the ball up till some got it closer.
Montreal...i dont know what the love in for this city is here...but i believe
MLS would be making a mistake letting the city in MLS at least while Saputo in running the show.

[SilverSamurai]

Look at the toal goals Cunny has scored in MLS compared to DeRo, yes that stat alone means hes a better player..goalscorer anyways.. as far as the long shot..he may have the ability to put it in...but from that distance
it likely wasn;'t so he should have held the ball up till some got it closer.
Montreal...i dont know what the love in for this city is here...but i believe
MLS would be making a mistake letting the city in MLS at least while Saputo in running the show.
Theirs more to a player than how many goals they score...
Ever heard of assists and playmaking through other ways?

So you say not Saputo? Who else then?
Who else has the $$$? Saputo is one of the richest families in the country... This isn't the Lynx we're talking about...
:facepalm:

[Dirk Diggler]

They have a larger plan to revitalize Olympic Park? That is certainly good to hear. I know they've already poured in a billion dollars on it but I think they should look into improving the Big O as well. Recently they've been able to hold a lot of events there and they also figure to host a Montreal Canadiens game next season. They should try to return it to the pre-Expos format and get that roof working. This way, even though they won't have a permanent team to host, they can still make some money from big events year round ... events like soccer friendlies, big Impact games, once a year Als game, once a year Habs game, track meets etc. It is such a tremendous facility but has been in a state of disrepair due to the Expos.

[Cashcleaner]

^ It's more of educated speculation with regards to an Olympic Park revitalization. I don't really know what the plan is for Olympic Stadium, but I certainly would not be surprised if some interested tenants are forthcoming soon.

[Oldtimer]

The best thing to do with the Olympic Stadium is to tear it down.
Then replace it with a decent indoor stadium (no fancy gimmicks this time).

[Beach_Red]

I spent many years going to Exps games at Olympic Stadium (and Jarry Park before that), nd I also went to a soccer game there during the Olympics and it's really not a very good venue. Especially not for the money that was spent. I agree that tearing it down and starting over would be the best thing to do.

I also think the Als have proved how important a downtown stadium is. If the Expos had built that ballpark they were talking about not far from the Bell Centre they would still be in Montreal.

And I think the Impact would get Als-like support if they were downtown. If they had a stadium the size of BMO in the same kind of location as BMO, they too would sell it out for every game.

[SilverSamurai]

I spent many years going to Exps games at Olympic Stadium (and Jarry Park before that), nd I also went to a soccer game there during the Olympics and it's really not a very good venue. Especially not for the money that was spent. I agree that tearing it down and starting over would be the best thing to do.

I also think the Als have proved how important a downtown stadium is. If the Expos had built that ballpark they were talking about not far from the Bell Centre they would still be in Montreal.

And I think the Impact would get Als-like support if they were downtown. If they had a stadium the size of BMO in the same kind of location as BMO, they too would sell it out for every game.

But Saputo Stadium is pretty much on the subway line. Just a 5-8min walk. Sure if it was IN the core it would be better but it's not exactly out in the boonies.

[Beach_Red]

But Saputo Stadium is pretty much on the subway line. Just a 5-8min walk. Sure if it was IN the core it would be better but it's not exactly out in the boonies.


No, it's not the boonies. I rode that subway hundreds of times to get out there for games - but never for any other reason. And it's not like there's a bar around the corner to meet at.

It's more like what if BMO was at Kennedy Station. Still on the subway line and not all that far, but quite different from downtown.

I'm still surprised that in this case there's a great test case already done everyone ignores - the Als couldn't draw squat at Olympic Stadium and now draw a solid 20,000 at downtown Molson Stadium. Would the crowd for Impact games be that much different than the crowd for the Als?

[georgesd]

But Saputo Stadium is pretty much on the subway line. Just a 5-8min walk. Sure if it was IN the core it would be better but it's not exactly out in the boonies.

The "Green" metro line to Olympic and Saputo Stadiums is ideal because it easy and cheap to get there. Montreal's Metro is both north-south and east-west and this permits people from the whole of Greater Montreal, i.e. Laval, St-Laurent and Longueuil (South Shore) to arrive at Saputo or Big O Stadiums without having to park the car. A short walk from the metro line and you're at Saputo Stadium not to forget that access to the Big O is direct from the metro.

When the Expos were at the Big O there were many years in late 70s throughout the 80s that they had well over 2,000,000 fans for their home games.

Montreal's not like many North American cities. It doesn't sprawl because it is an Island city. So you get to Olympic Stadium or Saputo from where I live, second to last stop on the Green Line west side in about 30 minutes. I consider this ideal. It certainly isn't the boon docks as elsewhere in N.A. when ALL fans are forced to take either car or bus.

As to not being in downtown, like the Bell Center where the Habs play or Molson Stadium where the Alouettes play, I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

All in all it's a joy to go watch a soccer match at the Big O or Saputo Stadium.

Cheers Georges D

[georgesd]

No, it's not the boonies. I rode that subway hundreds of times to get out there for games - but never for any other reason. And it's not like there's a bar around the corner to meet at.

It's more like what if BMO was at Kennedy Station. Still on the subway line and not all that far, but quite different from downtown.

I'm still surprised that in this case there's a great test case already done everyone ignores - the Als couldn't draw squat at Olympic Stadium and now draw a solid 20,000 at downtown Molson Stadium. Would the crowd for Impact games be that much different than the crowd for the Als?

The clientele for soccer is somewhat different than that of Canadian football. Soccer's clientele is younger, more family oriented and of many ethnic origins. However, the French majority has taken to football in the past generation. The Als folded largely because they didn't attract the French clientele and didn't have many players on the field from Quebec universities. As we all know, that is no longer the case. Quebec University and Cegep football has grown and rivals the best teams across Canada.

That's why the Als sell out Molson Stadium at each game. McGill University, the owners of the stadium, have finally agreed, since 2007-08, to expand the stadium. This will completed by 2010 or 2011 I believe. Keep in mind that parking at Molson stadium is horrific and the metro line is an uphill battle of a good 20 minutes. Saputo Stadium access is much more comfortable.

Georges

[SilverSamurai]

No, it's not the boonies. I rode that subway hundreds of times to get out there for games - but never for any other reason. And it's not like there's a bar around the corner to meet at.

It's more like what if BMO was at Kennedy Station. Still on the subway line and not all that far, but quite different from downtown.

I'm still surprised that in this case there's a great test case already done everyone ignores - the Als couldn't draw squat at Olympic Stadium and now draw a solid 20,000 at downtown Molson Stadium. Would the crowd for Impact games be that much different than the crowd for the Als?
That's true though. Their's not much around Saputo Stadium. Just a few houses and the Biodome. lol

The "Green" metro line to Olympic and Saputo Stadiums is ideal because it easy and cheap to get there. Montreal's Metro is both north-south and east-west and this permits people from the whole of Greater Montreal, i.e. Laval, St-Laurent and Longueuil (South Shore) to arrive at Saputo or Big O Stadiums without having to park the car. A short walk from the metro line and you're at Saputo Stadium not to forget that access to the Big O is direct from the metro.

When the Expos were at the Big O there were many years in late 70s throughout the 80s that they had well over 2,000,000 fans for their home games.

Montreal's not like many North American cities. It doesn't sprawl because it is an Island city. So you get to Olympic Stadium or Saputo from where I live, second to last stop on the Green Line west side in about 30 minutes. I consider this ideal. It certainly isn't the boon docks as elsewhere in N.A. when ALL fans are forced to take either car or bus.

As to not being in downtown, like the Bell Center where the Habs play or Molson Stadium where the Alouettes play, I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

All in all it's a joy to go watch a soccer match at the Big O or Saputo Stadium.

Cheers Georges D
That's what I'm saying. I agree. It's in the city, maybe not the core, but it's easily accessible.
not like FCD or LA which have their stadiums outside of the city in the boonies.

[rocker]

They have a larger plan to revitalize Olympic Park? That is certainly good to hear. I know they've already poured in a billion dollars on it but I think they should look into improving the Big O as well.

they should look at what Chicago did to Soldier Field. They took an old stadium and totally renovated it into a palace without having to knock it down.

[Beach_Red]

That's true though. Their's not much around Saputo Stadium. Just a few houses and the Biodome. lol

That's what I'm saying. I agree. It's in the city, maybe not the core, but it's easily accessible.
not like FCD or LA which have their stadiums outside of the city in the boonies.

I hope you and Georges D are right. It's true Saputo is easily accessible once you're on the Metro. Getting to the Metro is another story...

I also think Georges is right that the clientel for soccer is a little different than for the CFL and that it's growing exponentially. Soccer in Canada will be where the CFL is now in ten years - at least eight teams across the country, solid TV ratings and selling as many tickets. And then it will pass the CFL.

If only I could find someone to take that bet....

[Cashcleaner]

^ 8 clubs at the level of MLS? Or 8 clubs of differing tiers?

[georgesd]

I hope you and Georges D are right. It's true Saputo is easily accessible once you're on the Metro. Getting to the Metro is another story...

I also think Georges is right that the clientel for soccer is a little different than for the CFL and that it's growing exponentially. Soccer in Canada will be where the CFL is now in ten years - at least eight teams across the country, solid TV ratings and selling as many tickets. And then it will pass the CFL.

If only I could find someone to take that bet....

I really like you're comparing CFL and Canadian soccer. It raises real good points such as:
1. In past years Edmonton, Calgary and perhaps 1 or 2 other teams, outside of Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto had teams in the now defunct A league and/or indoor soccer league of winter.

2. In other words, there were a good 6 teams in Canada that competed or tried to. This makes me wonder if it wont soon be time to raise the level of professionnal soccer and creat a Canadian Pro soccer league. I know there's the CPSL but it's only in Ontario and with 1 team in Qc. I also know the QSF (i.e. Quebec soccer fed) and I believe the CSA have raised the absolute need to have a pro league within our borders.

3. What this means is a Canadian USL1 group of teams that could eventually compete with the MLS trio of Montreal (in process), Toronto and Vancouver for the Canadian Championship.

4. You're right to say Canadian soccer could equal CFL. Where I disagree, it's not really one, is that it could happen well before 10 years. Only if soccer league 'designers' and 'developers' get to it. The Ottawa Fury is in PDL, I believe there's another PDL team or two in Canada. There,s at least a dozen cities accross Canada that could have a USL1 team: Victoria, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa, Trois-Rivières, Quebec City and the likes of Moncton and Halifax in the Maritimes.

It takes a game plan to feed top-tier teams in Canada, MLS and National Teams. A few business people who love the game as Joey Saputo has shown in Quebec could turn this trick into reality.

Enjoyed the read Beach_Red and the opp to exchange. BR GD

[georgesd]

i think the province is giving them $25mill under some infrastructure upgrade clause but georgesd could answer that for us...

redcard

you're right. Quebec govt, as part owner of the Impact, is pretty much committed to forking the cost for Saputo Stadium expansion to MLS standards. 25 Million is the amount that's thrown around here.

cheers, G

[rocker]

redcard

you're right. Quebec govt, as part owner of the Impact, is pretty much committed to forking the cost for Saputo Stadium expansion to MLS standards. 25 Million is the amount that's thrown around here.

cheers, G

wasn't Saputo supposed to announce that money by now? have you heard anything about how that is coming along?

I hate the Impact but would love to see them in MLS!!! :)

[Redcoe15]

The fact that the Impact can get around 12,000 per game at the east end of Montreal to watch league play at a level lower than MLS is proof positive they are more than ready to make the jump to MLS.

[SilverSamurai]

I hope you and Georges D are right. It's true Saputo is easily accessible once you're on the Metro. Getting to the Metro is another story...

I also think Georges is right that the clientel for soccer is a little different than for the CFL and that it's growing exponentially. Soccer in Canada will be where the CFL is now in ten years - at least eight teams across the country, solid TV ratings and selling as many tickets. And then it will pass the CFL.

If only I could find someone to take that bet....
It's not THAT far. here's a google map pic.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/SilverSamurai12/Cheese.jpg
You can see their are 2 subway stops nearby. Easily less than a 10min walk. Probably quicker than waiting to go under the GO station at BMO after a match. But I'll be the 1st to admit it's pretty fun down there. :) :drum:

I don't think the CSL will ever be major league here in Canada. Sure it would be nice, but at best I see it maybe becoming a "farm" team of sorts for TFC, Impact and Whitecaps. Perhaps something to compliment the Academies?
But as CSL, their should be more semi-pro across the country. I'm still sort of surprised their are no pro-teams out east.
Especially that the CFL isn't there.

Actually if you look really close you can see TFC beating Montreal 6-1... lol
(i had to) lol

[hazy_venus]

It's not THAT far. here's a google map pic.
.
fixed map :)http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=381&d=1249667765

[georgesd]

wasn't Saputo supposed to announce that money by now? have you heard anything about how that is coming along?

I hate the Impact but would love to see them in MLS!!! :)

I think there's a certain amount of politics going on:
1. Garber would like to announce Montreal in MLS. With the Portland situation going ahead I believe, it's a question of whether MLS want to expand 2 or 3 teams in 2011. So, here's why Joey Saputo had a temper tantrum: he won't get in in 2011 UNLESS his team performs much better in USL1 championship.

Garber, rightly so, is concerned with diluting the product with too many teams all at once, unless they, I mean Impact, can prove as Seattle (MLS this year), PRI in CCL and Vancouver (not living up to expectations this year in USL1). Joey wants 2011, his team has to show they are good enough for that to happen.

2. The Quebec govt is mum on the subject. But they have already committed themselves in the back-rooms of politiking. Jean Charest will announce when it gives him the photo-op with Joey and Garber. This should come in October I guess.

When it's time, it should all fall into place.

Cheers, G

[SilverSamurai]

I think there's a certain amount of politics going on:
1. Garber would like to announce Montreal in MLS. With the Portland situation going ahead I believe, it's a question of whether MLS want to expand 2 or 3 teams in 2011. So, here's why Joey Saputo had a temper tantrum: he won't get in in 2011 UNLESS his team performs much better in USL1 championship.

Garber, rightly so, is concerned with diluting the product with too many teams all at once, unless they, I mean Impact, can prove as Seattle (MLS this year), PRI in CCL and Vancouver (not living up to expectations this year in USL1). Joey wants 2011, his team has to show they are good enough for that to happen.

2. The Quebec govt is mum on the subject. But they have already committed themselves in the back-rooms of politiking. Jean Charest will announce when it gives him the photo-op with Joey and Garber. This should come in October I guess.

When it's time, it should all fall into place.

Cheers, G
October?
Didn't you guys just have an election like last yr or something?

[Beach_Red]

It takes a game plan to feed top-tier teams in Canada, MLS and National Teams. A few business people who love the game as Joey Saputo has shown in Quebec could turn this trick into reality.


Yes, I agree, that's what it would take.

And yes, I mean 8 teams of MLS (or higher) calibre within ten years.

Here's why I think it can happen. As Georges pointed out, football was nowhere in Quebec twenty years ago. It was almost an entirely English sport before then and it died out. There was no CEGEP program (which would be high school most other places and only started in Quebec in the 70's) and only the three English universities had teams. Many youth programs stopped playing. And the Als, then the Concordes folded. No one was interested in football in Quebec.

But then it started to be played a lot more by French Quebec. I have no idea why, but it was a grassroots movement, there was no pro team or league in Quebec but the sport grew again to the point where, as Georges pointed out, Laval is winning the Vanier Cup. In the "old days" when Quebec teams won national junior championships they were almost always completely English teams from Verdun or the South Shore Colts - my team ;). When we played against the LaSalle Warriors or Sun Youth or North Shore teams the players and coaches were all English - that's not the case anymore. Not even for my Greenfield Park Packers.

The same thing can happen with soccer nationally in Canada that happened with football in French Quebec. I don't know exactly what the turning point was when football started to be so popular in Quebec, but I think soccer is almost there in Canada. A comparison could be soccer being played by the minority immigrant community then being played by the rest of the society - the way football in Quebec went from the minority English community to the whole society.

The reson I say the eight teams could be MLS quality or higher is because CFL teams have a payroll in the $4-5 million range. Imagine TFC with that kind of payroll - and so many fewer players than a football team (which usually carries over forty on the roster). Also, there's no shortage of soccer players in the world. Football gets all its players from the US and Canada - that's it, but soccer is worldwide.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks I believe is the media in Canada - but we're breaking them down.

[troy1982]

MLS boss: No 2011 Montreal team
Friday, August 7, 2009

MLS commissioner Don Garber
SPORTSNET.CA

Major League Soccer commissioner Don Garber was on hand Friday night to watch Toronto FC and Real Madrid in Toronto, where he confirmed Montreal would not receive an expansion team in 2011.

Reports surfaced this week that Montreal Impact owner Joey Saputo was in discussion with Garber over joining the league as soon as 2011, but Garber was quick to dispel that idea at half-time on Friday night.

"It will not be happening in 2011, it will happen sometime after that, but I would like to see three teams in Canada," Garber told the media. "We are in discussion with Joey Saputo and his family, the next step is to work with them to get public support top expand an renovate that stadium."

Vancouver will become the second Canadian franchise in MLS in 2012 when the Whitecaps and a Portland club join the league.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/08/07/mls_montreal_expansion/

[SilverSamurai]

MLS boss: No 2011 Montreal team
Friday, August 7, 2009

MLS commissioner Don Garber
SPORTSNET.CA

Major League Soccer commissioner Don Garber was on hand Friday night to watch Toronto FC and Real Madrid in Toronto, where he confirmed Montreal would not receive an expansion team in 2011.

Reports surfaced this week that Montreal Impact owner Joey Saputo was in discussion with Garber over joining the league as soon as 2011, but Garber was quick to dispel that idea at half-time on Friday night.

"It will not be happening in 2011, it will happen sometime after that, but I would like to see three teams in Canada," Garber told the media. "We are in discussion with Joey Saputo and his family, the next step is to work with them to get public support top expand an renovate that stadium."

Vancouver will become the second Canadian franchise in MLS in 2012 when the Whitecaps and a Portland club join the league.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/08/07/mls_montreal_expansion/
Their we go. We have it right from the source.
Maybe 2012?
VanCity and Montreal in MLS at the same time?
Like whoa. :canada:

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

MLS boss: No 2011 Montreal team
Friday, August 7, 2009

MLS commissioner Don Garber
SPORTSNET.CA

Major League Soccer commissioner Don Garber was on hand Friday night to watch Toronto FC and Real Madrid in Toronto, where he confirmed Montreal would not receive an expansion team in 2011.

Reports surfaced this week that Montreal Impact owner Joey Saputo was in discussion with Garber over joining the league as soon as 2011, but Garber was quick to dispel that idea at half-time on Friday night.

"It will not be happening in 2011, it will happen sometime after that, but I would like to see three teams in Canada," Garber told the media. "We are in discussion with Joey Saputo and his family, the next step is to work with them to get public support top expand an renovate that stadium."

Vancouver will become the second Canadian franchise in MLS in 2012 when the Whitecaps and a Portland club join the league.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/08/07/mls_montreal_expansion/


Montreal lose out again...:D

[Blizzard]

MLS boss: No 2011 Montreal team
Friday, August 7, 2009

MLS commissioner Don Garber
SPORTSNET.CA

Major League Soccer commissioner Don Garber was on hand Friday night to watch Toronto FC and Real Madrid in Toronto, where he confirmed Montreal would not receive an expansion team in 2011.

Reports surfaced this week that Montreal Impact owner Joey Saputo was in discussion with Garber over joining the league as soon as 2011, but Garber was quick to dispel that idea at half-time on Friday night.

"It will not be happening in 2011, it will happen sometime after that, but I would like to see three teams in Canada," Garber told the media. "We are in discussion with Joey Saputo and his family, the next step is to work with them to get public support top expand an renovate that stadium."

Vancouver will become the second Canadian franchise in MLS in 2012 when the Whitecaps and a Portland club join the league.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2009/08/07/mls_montreal_expansion/

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Are not the Whitecaps and Timber joining MLS in 2011?

B

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Montreal lose out again...:D

unlike "sure thing" Ottawa right?

[Keystone FC]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Are not the Whitecaps and Timber joining MLS in 2011?

B

Yeah, they are. I'm sure it was a typo...I hope.

[Redcoe15]

Montreal in 2012...:D
FIXED!:dita:

[rocker]

i never thought Montreal had a chance for 2011 anyways.
Saputo was hoping for it.. but it'll be too much of a strain on the player pool to have 3 new teams in 1 year.
There's also no problem with waiting 1 year.... it won't hurt.

[SilverSamurai]

More Montreal info.
http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090808&content_id=6317024&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

Basically rehashing what was already said. It's in the last 3-4 paragraphs.
Seems like expansion is Montreals to lose.

[Tonyd]

I heard Gaber during an interview on Goaltv and he didn't commit that Montreal would be in by 2011!

[redcard]

if Portlands stadium plans somehow colapse I am sure Montreal would be in for 2011, but i believe Portland will join Van in 2011 and Montreal will be in for 2012...

cant wait for the 3000 TFC supporters to invade the big cheese stadium in 2012...i love the Canadiens but cant wait to increase the hate on the impact...

As far a Joey goes, i ran into him at last years NCC match and i gotta say he was excited to see all the TFC support that invaded his stadium, I wouldnt be surprised if the passion of TFC's supporters is why he is wanting into the MLS, i offered him my scarf but he decline...just hope they change the team name to Olympique de Montreal.

[kodiakTFC]

I heard Gaber during an interview on Goaltv and he didn't commit that Montreal would be in by 2011!

Now he is saying..

"It's not happening in 2011, it'll happen sometime after that," Garber said. "But I'd like to see three teams in Canada."

So 2012. We've heard before MLS/Garber wanted 2 in 2011 and 2 in 2012 so it is not a stretch.

[jloome]

^ Have you travelled to Scotiabank Centre from Downtown Ottawa? I have and I am absolutely flabbergasted that people make their way so far out of town to watch a Senators game. It's not even in the heart of Kanata itself, but rather on the periphery and surrounded by industrial parks and farmland. I'm surprised enough they travel that far for hockey and believe me when I say I am incredibly confident that they won't for soccer. Ottawa does have a new subway system proposed and in the designing stage, but a line out to Kanata isn't even being considered yet.

The only factor I see that could change the city's chances for a successful franchise is if they redevelop Landsdowne or another more central site.

My parents live in Nepean, my buddy lives in Kanata, my sister lives in Gloucester. Yeah, I know the terrain. And it's about 30 minutes drive, which is pretty normal in any large city these days. Hell, Edmonton is 72 km wide.

It's just not that far away, and "walkup" isn't that important in this kind of model. If they can get thousands out there for hockey, they can do it for soccer. That's just logical, whether it's preferred or not.