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View Full Version : Direct Football - for once it may be time to use it.



trane
07-31-2009, 08:54 AM
All the PRI need is a draw, so they will likely play just as they did on Wensday. We had trouble putting passes through their palyers, and making runs in space. I know many think that we were maing errant passes, but what I saw, is many passes to static players thorugh multiple PRI players. These passes more often then not were intercepted. So I think that we need to try more direct football, and to avoid getting caught on the counter try to play with three CBs, who will spend most of their time infront of the box and not pressing. I would play something like this.


----------------Gerba---------Dichio---------------------

-----------------------De Ro----------------------------

---Vitti-------------------------------------Barret--------

--------------Robbo--------------Cronin-----------------

-----Attakora (I hope)--Serioux-----------Garcia----------

If Wynne plays he plays as a pure winger, he has been effective in attack, due to his speed, but is not as Skilled as Barret and Vitti.

This way you can skip the ten players, but pressure on the CBs and golie rightin the box. We score two and we make it. Well as long as we do not conceed two.

backbeat
07-31-2009, 11:06 AM
All the PRI need is a draw, so they will likely play just as they did on Wensday. We had trouble putting passes through their palyers, and making runs in space. I know many think that we were maing errant passes, but what I saw, is many passes to static players thorugh multiple PRI players. These passes more often then not were intercepted. So I think that we need to try more direct football, and to avoid getting caught on the counter try to play with three CBs, who will spend most of their time infront of the box and not pressing. I would play something like this.


----------------Gerba---------Dichio---------------------

-----------------------De Ro----------------------------

---Vitti-------------------------------------Barret--------

--------------Robbo--------------Cronin-----------------

-----Attakora (I hope)--Serioux-----------Garcia----------

If Wynne plays he plays as a pure winger, he has been effective in attack, due to his speed, but is not as Skilled as Barret and Vitti.

This way you can skip the ten players, but pressure on the CBs and golie rightin the box. We score two and we make it. Well as long as we do not conceed two.

i like this - although i would, as i keep saying, drop Robbo back as a CB and sit Garcia:

----------------Gerba---------Dichio---------------------

-----------------------De Ro----------------------------

---Vitti-------------------------------------Barrett--------

--------------Guevara------------Cronin-----------------

-----Serioux------------Robbo-----------Attakora----------

trane
07-31-2009, 11:08 AM
I hope that Guevarra will be back. I jus want them to put the ball in the box.

H Bomb
07-31-2009, 11:27 AM
One thing I dont get is sometimes there are people who are angry any time someone kicks the ball more than 10 yards. There are many skills in football and one of the best and most difficult for me is a long high cross field pass. The kind Steve Gerrard is known for making. Football is a varied game that needs nuance to be enjoyable....I was largely bored to tears by Canada's tactics during the Gold Cup (my mother wanted to kick the TV) because they played for possession with no real intent on putting the ball in the net (the only thing that matters)....

Here is the greatest goal I've ever watched live.

exlBHTyB1R0

Followed by this

iaQhF-523As

Thank heavens the greatest players in the world know not to keep the ball on the ground.

trane
07-31-2009, 11:30 AM
^ Being able to play using different tactics is key. Start with the long ball and as it creats problems it will open up passing lanes and running space.

H Bomb
07-31-2009, 11:31 AM
exactly....think american football (i know i know) You run so they think you'll run and can pass....you pass so they ignore the run so you can run

trane
07-31-2009, 11:35 AM
^ I love the game because there are so many ways to play it well.

torontocelt
07-31-2009, 11:38 AM
One of the things that surprised me about the Islanders was their size, they had some really tall players out on the pitch especially down the spine of their team. Long balls to two big men up against tall centre backs might not be the answer, Gerba and Dichio also aren' exactly the most mobile of forwards either. During the last game TFC continuously put in cross in which were continously defended by their tall defenders, I would question the long ball as a tactic against them but who knows?

TFC07
07-31-2009, 11:42 AM
One thing I dont get is sometimes there are people who are angry any time someone kicks the ball more than 10 yards. There are many skills in football and one of the best and most difficult for me is a long high cross field pass. The kind Steve Gerrard is known for making. Football is a varied game that needs nuance to be enjoyable....I was largely bored to tears by Canada's tactics during the Gold Cup (my mother wanted to kick the TV) because they played for possession with no real intent on putting the ball in the net (the only thing that matters)....

Here is the greatest goal I've ever watched live.

exlBHTyB1R0

Followed by this

iaQhF-523As

Thank heavens the greatest players in the world know not to keep the ball on the ground.

Have you ever watch Canada play long-ball recently? (Example, look at their WC run :facepalm:). They were awful. Canada plays much better when they play possession game.

H Bomb
07-31-2009, 11:44 AM
With all due respect....people seem to think there are two options, long ball, or continental possession....The game is not black and white. Look at the Germans record at Inter. Tournys. And tell me they play the continental game

Shway
07-31-2009, 11:45 AM
----------------Gerba-------------------------Dichio-------------------

-------------------------------Dero----------------------------------


--Vitti-----------------------Guevarra------------------Barrett---------


-------------------------------Robbo---------------------------------


-----Serioux--------------------Nana--------------------Brennan

keep the tortoise off, when you attack alot, there needs to be definite speed to defend

AL-MO
07-31-2009, 11:48 AM
Here is the greatest goal I've ever watched live.

exlBHTyB1R0



I remember this goal like it was yesterday!

Anyway there is a time and place for Route 1 footy, but it can't be played ALL THE TIME.

My issue with it in the MLS is that it seems we don't have talented enough players to do it successfully.

I enjoy watching the Prem. but I can't watch scottish football. 5 minutes and I get frustrated that there is no real concerted effort to control the ball. Just hoofing it all over the park.

TFC07
07-31-2009, 11:48 AM
With all due respect....people seem to think there are two options, long ball, or continental possession....The game is not black and white. Look at the Germans record at Inter. Tournys. And tell me they play the continental game

Who said it was? The point I was making is that current men's team can't play long ball game. They're at their best when they play possession game. That's their strength.

H Bomb
07-31-2009, 11:51 AM
This board is so frustrating...I feel like i'm in a beaten ladies ward and cant mention stairs without being bitched at. New Sig needed

felipe
07-31-2009, 11:57 AM
The only problem I see is if we go with Gerba and dichio, why wouldn't PR just defend higher up the field? You would surely need some sort of pace up front to discourage this;

and if we turn to hoof and hope - you are erasing our advantage of greater skill - it becomes a contest of strength and will, and from what I've seen, PR can match as at that.

Surely the better idea would be to draw them out of position with some inventive attacking play; we should have Guevera, vitti, and DeRo healthy - this should be able to be accomplished.

I would consider a strike force of dichio (he links up the midfield wonderfully) and Barrett (just to keep them honest); we can always add Gerba to change things up...

Its just nice to finally have options to discuss

v00d00daddy
07-31-2009, 12:16 PM
One thing I dont get is sometimes there are people who are angry any time someone kicks the ball more than 10 yards. There are many skills in football and one of the best and most difficult for me is a long high cross field pass. The kind Steve Gerrard is known for making. Football is a varied game that needs nuance to be enjoyable....I was largely bored to tears by Canada's tactics during the Gold Cup (my mother wanted to kick the TV) because they played for possession with no real intent on putting the ball in the net (the only thing that matters)....

Thank heavens the greatest players in the world know not to keep the ball on the ground.

You're right. The problem arises when TFC play with the same tactics over and over and over again. They become predictable. I have no problem with the long ball every now and again but when Dichio comes on the field it seems like the defenders and holding mids forget that we have midfielders. It's pretty gross.

As for the videos you showed...when we get players that can do that shit then we can expect those kinds of results from the long ball. :)

I have a video that springs to mind too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOqKo3AgXhQ

Free Agents
07-31-2009, 12:39 PM
There's no movement. Long ball or direct, you're going to turn the ball over if you don't move. None of the players move and get open to receive the ball. They need to find holes and get there and they aren't doing it.

Chevy
07-31-2009, 12:41 PM
--Gerba-----------------------Dichio--------------------Dero-------

--Vitti-------------Guevarra---------Cronin-------------Barrett------

-----Wynne--------------------Nana--------------------Brennan----


I think this is about as direct as it can get. We may lose 6-5 but it would be entertaining. We might even win 6-5, who knows.

Lucky Strike
07-31-2009, 12:47 PM
One thing I dont get is sometimes there are people who are angry any time someone kicks the ball more than 10 yards. There are many skills in football and one of the best and most difficult for me is a long high cross field pass. The kind Steve Gerrard is known for making. Football is a varied game that needs nuance to be enjoyable....I was largely bored to tears by Canada's tactics during the Gold Cup (my mother wanted to kick the TV) because they played for possession with no real intent on putting the ball in the net (the only thing that matters)....

Here is the greatest goal I've ever watched live.

exlBHTyB1R0

Followed by this

iaQhF-523As

Thank heavens the greatest players in the world know not to keep the ball on the ground.

A little off-topic but my goodness those are awful announcers. The dutch guy just keeps repeating the scorer's name over and over and there's no description of the play. The Spanish guy just screams into the microphone - it's a great goal to be sure and you can be astonished but come on, at least say something.

To get back on topic, many people assume that direct play = long ball. They're similar but not identical. All styles of play (including pure possession and everything in between) have some pros and cons, that's obvious. Personally, I prefer possession with increased directness (is that even a word?) and the tactics used by Canada, while a welcome change from before, sometimes were infuriating because the midfield was passing back too often for my liking (though I recognize that if the opponent doesn't have the ball, they can't score).

Anyway (forgive my rambling), but my point is that all styles have merit and it's a question of effectively mixing it up and avoid being predictable, the one thing that TFC has been guilty of since it played its first match back in 2007.

H Bomb
07-31-2009, 12:47 PM
As for the videos you showed...when we get players that can do that shit then we can expect those kinds of results from the long ball. :)

I have a video that springs to mind too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOqKo3AgXhQ


When we get players that can do that shit we can expect those kinds of results from possession. :) :canada:

this is joga
07-31-2009, 12:59 PM
I have a video that springs to mind too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOqKo3AgXhQ

ohhh no you didn't!
the Argentina 26 passes goal.. thats gonna ruffle some feathers.

(CAMBIASSO!!! FORZA INTER!!! that was for v00d00)

H Bomb
07-31-2009, 01:00 PM
I still remember that goal...and being blow away....Mexico had a similar one finished by Borgetti...i think i got his name wrong...Good football = good football...But i like a little violence in there, a little blood and tears

Pookie
07-31-2009, 01:08 PM
I'm going to echo some of the comments here.

Normally, we are down in 110 but ended up in 225 for this game. It was apparent, painfully apparent how little movement there was off the ball.

Much of the criticism directed towards our passing is misplaced. Players were simply not moving off the ball and gave the player with possession very little. Vitti and De Rosario got knocked for carrying the ball too much. The way I saw it, most of their attempts were to find an open space through which to feed the ball or create space for a teammate standing still.

IMO, Barrett is one of the worst offenders for this but he isn't alone. That said, the game changed considerably when he was subbed.

As for PR's game plan, they can win, draw and win it. They can lose 1-0 and still have a shot in extra time and/or PKs.

I think you only need to look at the tape of the 2nd half to see their game plan. It will be to fill their box, waste time and make sure all of our shots are on the outside.

I'd recommend a game plan that includes the following:

- Barrett out. Late game sub if necessary but give White or Ibrahim a start with the message that movement off the ball is what is expected and what will earn them a future start

... I hate to say what I am about to say

- We will have our chances. We will have plenty of guys in the box. They will have plenty of guys in the box. Inevitably, there will be contact.... I can't even say it... but if you feel that tug... you know..

That seems to be the way that CONCACAF does it.

Hitcho
07-31-2009, 01:36 PM
I don't think long balls will work, their defence will clear them like meat and drink. crosses into the air are unlikely to work for the same reason.

i would favour pacey wide men and low, dangerous crosses just behind the six yard box, those are much harder to defend if played well. however, who's going to put them in for us? Er...

if all esle fails, see Pookie's post above as a last resort.

trane
07-31-2009, 01:45 PM
^ I say go for both allow your wides to run deep and keep two bigger stronger strikers in the box, this will tie up there CBs at least.

Yohan
07-31-2009, 02:43 PM
if it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid

what I want to see from TFC is to play multiple styles, pending on tactical situation

what I get annoyed is when TFC play direct when possession will work better. or play possession football when direct approach will get better results

one dimensional game makes you predictable. and predictability gets you killed (or loss in this case)

trane
07-31-2009, 02:52 PM
if it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid

what I want to see from TFC is to play multiple styles, pending on tactical situation

what I get annoyed is when TFC play direct when possession will work better. or play possession football when direct approach will get better results

one dimensional game makes you predictable. and predictability gets you killed (or loss in this case)

Agreed. They seem to get locked in into one of the other, and are not able to switch during play.

Whoop
07-31-2009, 02:54 PM
^^
To me that's more of a coaching issue than a player issue.

trane
07-31-2009, 02:56 PM
^ Agreed. It could be the players are just not taking the instructions, but ultimatly it is the coach, that needs to get them too do what they should.

cmonyoureds
07-31-2009, 04:16 PM
I'm going to echo some of the comments here.

Normally, we are down in 110 but ended up in 225 for this game. It was apparent, painfully apparent how little movement there was off the ball.

Much of the criticism directed towards our passing is misplaced. Players were simply not moving off the ball and gave the player with possession very little. Vitti and De Rosario got knocked for carrying the ball too much. The way I saw it, most of their attempts were to find an open space through which to feed the ball or create space for a teammate standing still.

IMO, Barrett is one of the worst offenders for this but he isn't alone. That said, the game changed considerably when he was subbed.

As for PR's game plan, they can win, draw and win it. They can lose 1-0 and still have a shot in extra time and/or PKs.

I think you only need to look at the tape of the 2nd half to see their game plan. It will be to fill their box, waste time and make sure all of our shots are on the outside.

I'd recommend a game plan that includes the following:

- Barrett out. Late game sub if necessary but give White or Ibrahim a start with the message that movement off the ball is what is expected and what will earn them a future start

... I hate to say what I am about to say

- We will have our chances. We will have plenty of guys in the box. They will have plenty of guys in the box. Inevitably, there will be contact.... I can't even say it... but if you feel that tug... you know..

That seems to be the way that CONCACAF does it.

Just my two cents, but we were in 111 and I can't count the amount of times Barrett was in acres of space directly in front of us. Unfortunatley we seemed like we were determined to try and play the ball through the middle. PRI I think realized this and just started crowding the mid even more, ignoring the wing. When Barrett was subbed it seemed like it was to stick yet another guy more central. The game changed because now the left was WIDE open and Brennan (?) seemed to run into that space to send in (terrible) crosses.
Then again, I'm sure a footy expert on this board will decide that's the dumbest post they've seen yet...:D

Yohan
07-31-2009, 05:59 PM
Just my two cents, but we were in 111 and I can't count the amount of times Barrett was in acres of space directly in front of us. Unfortunatley we seemed like we were determined to try and play the ball through the middle. PRI I think realized this and just started crowding the mid even more, ignoring the wing. When Barrett was subbed it seemed like it was to stick yet another guy more central. The game changed because now the left was WIDE open and Brennan (?) seemed to run into that space to send in (terrible) crosses.
Then again, I'm sure a footy expert on this board will decide that's the dumbest post they've seen yet...:D
no, you're not blind, deaf or dumb or anything ;)

the amount of space the wingers had on PRI game was ridiculous, esp in first half.

Pookie
07-31-2009, 07:45 PM
Just my two cents, but we were in 111 and I can't count the amount of times Barrett was in acres of space directly in front of us. Unfortunatley we seemed like we were determined to try and play the ball through the middle. PRI I think realized this and just started crowding the mid even more, ignoring the wing. When Barrett was subbed it seemed like it was to stick yet another guy more central. The game changed because now the left was WIDE open and Brennan (?) seemed to run into that space to send in (terrible) crosses.
Then again, I'm sure a footy expert on this board will decide that's the dumbest post they've seen yet...:D

The only thing I'd say to that is that if he was directly in front of you in 111, that would have been in the 2nd half...?

I re-watched the game on PVR and most of my observation comes from the first half where he was essentially standing still along the left side. I don't think he's the only culprit though.

cmonyoureds
08-01-2009, 02:59 PM
Yeah, mostly second half but I noticed it a few times in the first also. Albeit from a long, long way away.
Not that this is to defend Barrett only, I think both wingers were getting frustrated early on at the lack of service. Seems like any manager worth his salt just crowds the middle on us and takes us out of the game. De Ro, Guevara, Dichio, Gerba, all push through the middle continuously, Vitti seems to always dribble/drift there. I was glad to see guys actually staying out wide for once, even if only standing there looking lonely.
Maybe tonight will be different.

v00d00daddy
08-01-2009, 05:12 PM
I saw the game very differntly than you guys.

I thought TFC spent the majority of the game pushing the game out to the wings and attempting.....over and over and over and FUCKING over, to cross the ball into the box.

They did it way too much. I agree that PRI plugged up the middle of the field but that's only because they knew TFC were playing a one dimensional game and that's where PRI had to defend from.

It's pretty easy to see that PRI was quite content keeping TFC to shots from bad angles and hoping that they could win the battles in the box, both in the air, and on the ground...which they did well.

TFC were very one dimensional and it's what cost them the game. I'm not sure if it's tactics from Cummins or a decision made by the guys on the field. Either way, it didn't work and it was frustrating to watch them try to do the same shit all game.

When the fans behind the net, which is where I sit, are screaming for Robbo, Cronin, Wynne, and Brennan to take shots from 25-35 yards out, it's quite obvious that we were desperate and PRI knew it about 20 minutes in.

Come on boys...spice it up a bit.

v00d00daddy
08-05-2009, 07:44 AM
So.....It seems that PRI prefer to hold on to the ball too. The sad thing is that they can do it better than TFC.

PRI held and passed the ball well and we have Brennan, Robbo and Wynne who can't even trap a ball with regular consistency, let alone do anything creative with it going forward.

v00d00daddy
08-05-2009, 04:33 PM
I guess nobody wants to talk about the longball tactic at length?

Would Dichio have made a difference if he played more?

Would TFC had played even more long ball if Dichio had started?

Would it have worked?

Would you have been happy to see it?

I need answers people. :)

trane
08-05-2009, 05:19 PM
Obviously this is one game, were I think we should have tried it. But clearly you need DD on the pitch to do so.