The defence dilemma

[Yohan]

Who would you pick for the back 4 in starting lineup?

Consider the pros and cons

Marvell Wynne (RB)
Pros: one of best attacking fullbacks in MLS. has blistering pace to move up and down the right flank. good vertical leap. great athlete with stamina. passing and crossing has improved lately. given an option, he will try to make something happen on overlapping runs
Cons: one of worst defensive fullbacks in MLS. terrible positioning. defensively prone to lapses of concentration resulting in opposition chances or costly PKs. can get beaten by more technical attackers. needs better football IQ

Nick Garcia (CB/RB)
Pros: defensive leader in the back. vocal leader. good positioning and reads the play well
Cons: very slow and gets beaten by faster MLS attackers. tries sometimes to make up for getting beaten by making rash challenges. small for a CB at 5'10". not the most physical CB

Adrian Serioux (RB/CB/LB)
Pros: Physically strong. Brave. Willing to put his body on the line to make a play. Decent positioning. Good technical skills. Has strong long throws.
Cons: Lately injury prone. Can be beaten by pace. Needs to improve his reading of the game. sometimes tries slide tackles too much and rash challenges.

Jim Brennan (LB/CB)
Pros: team captain. good set of offensive skills when utilized properly. can make an overlaping run to deliver a dangerous cross.
Cons: can be beaten one on one. slowly losing pace. positioning and reading of the game is bad.

Nana Attakora (CB/RB)
Pros: young defender. good positioning and decent pace. has offensive attributes. reads the game well and makes heads up plays.
Cons: Needs to bulk up so that he doesn't get pushed around by more physical players. must ensure concentration is there at all times and communicate better with other defenders

Emmanuel Gomez (CB)
Pros: young defender. has good set of technical skills. good pace. willing to challenge for the ball
Cons: needs more physical strength. needs to improve on passing and not giive the ball away

Marco Velez (CB/RB)
Pros: strong. has good vertical leap and good header
Cons: prone to errors under pressure. frequent lapse of concentration. avg pace at best. needs to work on positioning

[prizby]

what about sanyang :p

[H Bomb]

Health. that's it for me...we have the pieces for a good mls side if healthy

[BuSaPuNk]

It's all up to health really. Now if everyone is healthy and 100% match fit.

Wynne----Garcia----Nana----Serioux----

Move Brennan to a more midfield role.
Velez, Gomez, Gala should be (and in that order*) coming off the bench.

*Velez only comes on as a late game up a goal or trailing by 2 guy, other wise Gomez and Gala should be put on.

[Yohan]

what about sanyang :p
haven't seen him to make a judgement on his play

[wzhxvy]

Velez is done...I would remove him from any future formations or plans

[BuSaPuNk]

Velez is done...I would remove him from any future formations or plans

Completely agree with you however with no one to take his place, god knows we need the depth right now.

[Yohan]

my ratings for depth chart

RB
Attakora
Wynne
Garcia
Velez

CB
Serioux
Attakora
Garcia
Gomez
Brennan
Velez

LB
Brennan
Serioux
Velez

[cochrdoc]

Let`s shake it up, our defence is terrible.Nana and Gomez in the middle with Serioux outside left Wynne on the right.Brennan is to slow ,alot of goals have been scored or received service from his side.Garcia is not strong in the air and to slow.Fouls needlessly.Wynne is fast but can`t pass or cross a ball worth shit.If we had a decent back 4 we would not collapse like we do and probably be in first place.

[cochrdoc]

I forgot Velez.He would look good wearing orange next time we play PR

[crozack]

Serioux and Nana as markers.....Garcia as the central voice in the back

thats it.

It worked well the first time they tried it.

thoughts?

[barca99]

---Brennan----Serioux----Garcia----Wynne---

Attakora 1st off the bench, then Gomez

Trade Velez if you can...

[barca99]

Completely agree with you however with no one to take his place, god knows we need the depth right now.

Could pick up ANYONE to do the job Velez has done.

[Candu_88]

Brennan Cons - I have seen several horrid dive-ins/slide-ins this year that have left the other defenders in big trouble. Lacks patience at times, doesn't jockey and is susceptible to being beaten 1v1.

Defensive Coaching Cons - Not sure who is in charge of the defense but I see some consistent flaws that are not being addressed.

Do you remember that goal TFC conceded against Seattle where they sliced the defense apart with a give and go when Serioux chased a side pass? This is really annoying because it has happened numerous times this year. A defensive fundamental that I ingrain into youth players is when you are first defender pressuring the ball and the attacker releases the ball sideways or back you immediately check back 3 steps as quickly as possible and you watch the attacker not the ball. This retains defensive shape and blocks the give and go or a chip into space behind you. How many times has an attacker made a diagonal run against TFC and not been picked up and had a free header for a goal? How many times has the defense lost its shape leaving attackers unmarked in front of goal? How many times has the defensive line been too deep.

Most English clubs have a defensive coaching specialist. TFC need to add one these to the coaching staff. Mo I hope you read these threads. Bring in Wally Downes he is available. He coached Reading FC defense to the best defensive record in 2005-6 in the entire English football pyramid. Not only that is fought the ahole Neil Warnock when he recognized that he told Sheffield players to break some legs. I'd love to see a specialist coach with that passion and intelligence at TFC. We have some great young defensive pros lets make sure that they reach their full potential.

[Carter]

what about sanyang :p

You know sanyang is a midfielder right?

[Phil]

You know sanyang is a midfielder right?

For some reason he is listed as Defence:

name: Amadou Sanyang
position: D
height: 6-0 weight:165
Birthdate: August 01, 1991
Hometown: Banjul, Gambia
last club: Real de Banjul (Gambia)

[backbeat]

i keep saying it - drop Robbo back as a CB:

---Wynne----Robbo----Attakora----Seroiux---

Bench:
Garcia
Gomez
Velez

Sanyang, Gala, Brennan in mid

We have a strog enough and deep enough Mid to move Robbo back imo with:

Guevara----Cronin----Vitti

Dero-----Gerba-----Barrett/Dichio

[Derko]

[quote=BuSaPuNk;647483]It's all up to health really. Now if everyone is healthy and 100% match fit.

Wynne----Garcia----Nana----Serioux----

I agree with this, I don't worry as much when Nana is on the field.

Cheers

:scarf::drinking::scarf::drinking::scarf::drinking :

[Hitcho]

I really think the future of our central defence looks like Gomez and Nana right now, which is really encouraging. In the meantime, I think Serioux should be a starter. He's a solid CB. Most of his "cons" above stem from the fact he's been forced to play through injury so much. If he could get a rest to get fully fit, we'd see much more from him I think.

As for the starting line up, it really depends on who we are playing. Cummins needs to get the tactics right for each individual game. Wynne and Brennan makes for great attacking FBs. Playing Nana as a FB adds more defensive stability with less forward running down the flanks (eg, if we're playing a side with a very good winger). Gomez in the middle adds some much needed height and pace. Garcia adds leadership and positional nous but lacks pace. Serioux is a dominant force when fit and hard to push off the ball, plus he has those buillet throws.

On the one hand, this means we have some good options to mix it up tactically based on who we are playing. On the other hand, a settled and solid backline is usually the underpinning of any good side. Cummins has to juggle that one - rather him than me!

[SilverSamurai]

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/tfc-bus-300x200.jpg
only option short of bringing in a bunch of dp caliber players...

[trane]

I am starting to think, encouraged by Shags, that we should be looking at three at the back. But the three must be commited to defend first and stay back at all times. I would put Attakora- Serioux - Garcia there simply as they are the three most defensive minded defenders, I would like to see Attakora-Serioux-Wynne but I am afraid Wynne would still push up to often and too deep.

I would not mind trying something like ( Untill Guevarra come back);

---------------------Gerba----------------------------

------------De Ro-----------------Vitti----------------------------

-Barrett--------------------------------------Wynne-----------

---------------Robbo--------Cronin--------------------------

---------Attakora-----Serioux-------Garcia---------------------

[Hitcho]

^ in that formation brennan should be where Barrett is. we'd need wing backs who could get back and help defensively, even if they are not the best in the business on the defensive side. brennand and wynne fit that mould and are good going forward too. brennan's corsses would be great.

where's amado though?! he'd have to be rotated with de ro and vitti.

gomez would be good cover for one of the three CBs. dichio for Gerba for the rest of the season too.

could work,a lthough i have concerns about 3 at the back, especially at this level.

[trane]

^ I agree with you on Brennan, I just think that Barret has contirbuted well on the wing. But both Brennan and Wynne have looked good comming up.

I do not like three at the back, the problem is that when we play four at the back, we top often end up with three or even two at the back, and often in real bad shapes, leaving great open spaces to exploit. I would want the three at the back to play real conservative and always stay well back, and protect the box.

[Carter]

For some reason he is listed as Defence:

name: Amadou Sanyang
position: D
height: 6-0 weight:165
Birthdate: August 01, 1991
Hometown: Banjul, Gambia
last club: Real de Banjul (Gambia)

Weird..

It has been a long wait for Amadou Sanyang, but the young Gambian will finally be able to play for Toronto FC when he turns 18 on Saturday. The midfielder will travel with the squad for the first time for the match at New England (Saturday at 8:00 p.m. live on GOLTV.)

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090730&content_id=6148822&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

the web is weird like that, reporters don't even know what way is up.


WIKI has him at both.
Personal information
Full name Amadou Sanyang
Date of birth August 1, 1991 (1991-08-01) (age 17)
Place of birth Bakau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakau), The Gambia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gambia)
Height 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m)
Playing position Defender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defender_%28association_football%29)/Midfielder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midfielder_%28association_football%29)

[Candu_88]

Given the fact that TFC squad has lots of attacking midfielders the intriguing 3-6-1 formation makes a lot of sense when we need goals. This will work much better than the usual hoof it to Dichio 4-4-2 tactic we use late in games.

[Hitcho]

^ I agree with you on Brennan, I just think that Barret has contirbuted well on the wing. But both Brennan and Wynne have looked good comming up.

I do not like three at the back, the problem is that when we play four at the back, we top often end up with three or even two at the back, and often in real bad shapes, leaving great open spaces to exploit. I would want the three at the back to play real conservative and always stay well back, and protect the box.

i agree on barrett mate, he's looked useful at wide right and is good at drifting inside too.

the front three in that system would be interchangeable, although there's no obvious place for amado which worries me. we saw against PR how much he is missed through the middle.

[trane]

^ 3-6-1 is defenetly what it is. Not convnetional but I think it would work.

[trane]

i agree on barrett mate, he's looked useful at wide right and is good at drifting inside too.

the front three in that system would be interchangeable, although there's no obvious place for amado which worries me. we saw against PR how much he is missed through the middle.

Agreed. This is the Amado less option. Make it a front two Gerba with De Ro just behind. Amado would play just in front of the two DMs.

[grizzle]

Wynne----Garcia----Nana----Serioux----


+1 for these 4

[BFin]

Gomez - Serioux - Garcia - Nana

Jimmy B should be on the bench, Marvell loves playing the wing and he can run like a wild man, so I have no problem with moving him up there.

[Phil]

Weird..

It has been a long wait for Amadou Sanyang, but the young Gambian will finally be able to play for Toronto FC when he turns 18 on Saturday. The midfielder will travel with the squad for the first time for the match at New England (Saturday at 8:00 p.m. live on GOLTV.)

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090730&content_id=6148822&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

the web is weird like that, reporters don't even know what way is up.


WIKI has him at both.
Personal information
Full name Amadou Sanyang
Date of birth August 1, 1991 (1991-08-01) (age 17)
Place of birth Bakau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakau), The Gambia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gambia)
Height 6 ft 0 in (1.83 m)
Playing position Defender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defender_%28association_football%29)/Midfielder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midfielder_%28association_football%29)

I know, its a bit confusing. I assume that TFC are turning him into a defender because really we could use him there if he has the potential.

[Belfast_Boy]

Gomez - Serioux - Garcia - Nana

Jimmy B should be on the bench, Marvell loves playing the wing and he can run like a wild man, so I have no problem with moving him up there.

I like this! and if the new guy is as good as Gomez then he'd replace Garcia.

wouldn't dress Velez anymore.

[Bobo]

---Brennan----Serioux----Garcia----Wynne---

Attakora 1st off the bench, then Gomez

Trade Velez if you can...


Nana is stronger than 3 of the 4 players in that line.

[BFin]

^^
No arguments here on this post.
Brennan has been performing at a level that we can not have on our back line right now.
Mis-timed slide tackles, lack of effort to collect rebounds (directly resulting in opposition goals), and a general lack of pace add up to him not earning his starting spot on the pitch. If my Canadiana and love for our captain wasn't as strong, I am sure these feelings would be much more harsh, but he does need to sit.

[Lucky Strike]

Velez is done...I would remove him from any future formations or plans

Velez was done when he got himself sent off in that match he was captain for against Chivas when we were missing 9 players. To me, that was the final straw in a long line of idiotic blunders. I've wanted him gone ever since.

[Hitcho]

^^
No arguments here on this post.
Brennan has been performing at a level that we can not have on our back line right now.
Mis-timed slide tackles, lack of effort to collect rebounds (directly resulting in opposition goals), and a general lack of pace add up to him not earning his starting spot on the pitch. If my Canadiana and love for our captain wasn't as strong, I am sure these feelings would be much more harsh, but he does need to sit.

I'd stick Brennan in at left mid every time if fit. it's his natural position, he's good going forward with a great cross on him, can shoot well and wuold be handy on the defensive side for a winger. Plus I always like to see a cap'n in midfield rather than anywhere else...