Would you consider tickets for a permanent North Stand?

[Cashcleaner]

Simple as that. I've got a good feeling the temporary stands brought in for the last match are part of a project to build permanent seating in the North End of BMO Field, and if that's true, how many people would consider moving their existing seat to the new stand?

I, for one, would likely move out of 111 and buy an additional seat in the North Stand if it were possible.

[Bloor West FC]

no, I love the south east corner. Were in a supporters section. They are not. Means no standing and no fun

[Shaughno]

If they were to make a permanent one.. they should give it to the SG's.

[SuperTCP]

I would too

[grizzle]

I would just be happy to get season tickets, I don't care where I have to go. But, it would be nice to be in a supporters section that was controlled by supporters.

[Yohan]

no, I love the south east corner. Were in a supporters section. They are not. Means no standing and no fun
if SGs control the new north stand, it'd have to be a standing section

[CoachGT]

If north stand was made into a supporters section (as I suspect it would be) I'd be there for an extra pair. But I'd rather see control given to one of the supporters groups and then have both full ends perform at similar levels.

[H Bomb]

Nahhh, 115 is home and always will be....but it would be nice to see a SG behind the goal where they belong

[DangerRed]

If they were priced like the south end, I'd just be glad to have season seats.

[Wagner]

there are a lot of if's involved...
if it's SG controlled.
if the same rules as the south end apply.
if the price is the same or LOWER (you can't see the clock or video board).
if a large number of RPB decided to make the move.

I wonder how many displaced or unsatisfied RPB's there are, and could they fill up that section?

And there would be plenty of seats in 115,116,117,118 for non affiliated fans to have.
Where I am in 116 there are a fair number of families that are their primarily because of Pricing...

[TOBOR !]

meh - it'd probably all get snapped up by relocations and extra tickets for STHs - us gold-listers'd never get a sniff... but it would help get me cheaper STs than I was offered this year.

[Don Julio]

It's closer to home.

[jabbronies]

If north stand was made into a supporters section (as I suspect it would be) I'd be there for an extra pair. But I'd rather see control given to one of the supporters groups and then have both full ends perform at similar levels.

Similar to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYqMVLrsTpw

[werewolf]

Blindly committing to move to these hypothetical area would be a bit of a risk. It would have to be really supporter friendly. The generic idea itself isn't that bad, but the details would be huge.

[Shep]

I voted yes as my current seat is in 123, 106, 117, 115, 114, 221, 225, 116, 127.. etc.

:o

[prizby]

ONLY IF it became a permant supporters group only home, so we don't have DEGENERATES THROWING BEER!

[H Bomb]

ONLY IF it became a permant supporters group only home, so we don't have DEGENERATES THROWING BEER!

....fixed :D

[flatpicker]

yes

If it's a supporters section... and it is the only supporter section in the whole stadium...

The I would move out of 111 heartbeat!

[BuSaPuNk]

Yeah a lot goes into figuring if you want to get in there. Price, supporters section, ect. I would be up for getting in but all matters how they deal with the odds and ends first.

[prizby]

if it is like a 2000 seat replica of the sons of ben-best idea there

[Ultra & Proud]

For sure. I am in 107 now and that north end looks WAY better.

[spezz44]

Had a great time their last night stood the whole game great veiw.

[Captain Croatia]

Let those who dont have tickets get them :hump:

[PJC]

ONLY IF it became a permant supporters group only home, so we don't have DEGENERATES THROWING BEER!


Agreed. I think this would be a perfect opportunity to grab season tickets. Well? I for one would most likely grab seasons in that section if it became permanent and if it is a supporters section. If it were to end up like how the die hards run shit in 112 and go nuts every game then I think were in for something special, but I don't want to get ahead of myself. I believe MLSE will look into expanding for sure. They filled that north end last night and it will be packed for the Madrid game so who knows? I hope it becomes permanent and an official supporters section. I'm against throwing beer, but that goalkeeper had it coming to him.

[morgank1986]

We're forgetting how important the south east corner is to the rest of the supporters section. Most times chants coming out of the south east are able to spread across the south. In all honesty I think it might be better to offer those in the south end who aren't as into the chanting and singing and atmopshere of the south to move into the north stands, and allow SG members who don't have a seat in the south to take those now vacant seats.

[prizby]

Agreed. I think this would be a perfect opportunity to grab season tickets. Well? I for one would most likely grab seasons in that section if it became permanent and if it is a supporters section. If it were to end up like how the die hards run shit in 112 and go nuts every game then I think were in for something special, but I don't want to get ahead of myself. I believe MLSE will look into expanding for sure. They filled that north end last night and it will be packed for the Madrid game so who knows? I hope it becomes permanent and an official supporters section. I'm against throwing beer, but that goalkeeper had it coming to him.

i don't want random pricks you can't control, if it is an only supporter group member section, i support it 100%!

I would also request a roof so that the sound stays in the stadium!

[Ratven]

If we could consolidate all the supporter groups there and have some control over who's in the section, then I'm all for it 100%.

[Ratven]

We're forgetting how important the south east corner is to the rest of the supporters section. Most times chants coming out of the south east are able to spread across the south. In all honesty I think it might be better to offer those in the south end who aren't as into the chanting and singing and atmopshere of the south to move into the north stands, and allow SG members who don't have a seat in the south to take those now vacant seats.

No one will move, even if they aren't into chanting, no one will give up their coveted supporters section tickets where you can "experience craaaazy Toronto FC fans (by standing around and not contributing at all)".

[PJC]

i don't want random pricks you can't control, if it is an only supporter group member section, i support it 100%!

I would also request a roof so that the sound stays in the stadium!


I know what you mean brotha. No one wants a shit disturber around when your trying to have a good time at the game. Especially people who want to cause problems and start fights for no apparent reason. As much as we want everything to go our way there will always be one douche bag lurking beneath the shadows and it's usually that one casual fan I would assume. I doubt a regular would do something stupid. That's just my opinion.

[redcard]

If we could consolidate all the supporter groups there and have some control over who's in the section, then I'm all for it 100%.

why not have the famalies that dont like to stand from the south end move into the lower priced north where they can sit...thus opening up a plethura of seats in the south, which is the original supporters section.

[TorontoBlades]

I think first dibs on this new sections would have to go to NEE - they've been holding down that area from day 1

[SilverSamurai]

If I got a chance to get seasons, in the north, I'd get them.

[Parkdale]

I think first dibs on this new sections would have to go to NEE - they've been holding down that area from day 1

the area that was only put in yesterday?

[Ratven]

why not have the famalies that dont like to stand from the south end move into the lower priced north where they can sit...thus opening up a plethura of seats in the south, which is the original supporters section.


No one will move, even if they aren't into chanting, no one will give up their coveted supporters section tickets where you can "experience craaaazy Toronto FC fans (by standing around and not contributing at all)".

That's why.

[Nodoubtguy]

honestly.....I'd say no. I love my seats, my view, my section (115).

While I enjoy what 111/112/113 do, I like the fact that I'm in a section that really just allows me to watch the game and not worry about other things (songs and what not)

[Wagner]

why not have the famalies that dont like to stand from the south end move into the lower priced north where they can sit...thus opening up a plethura of seats in the south, which is the original supporters section.

that's actually a really good idea.

as there are less seats there...and some of the RPBs in the 200 level for example...could fill those newly empty seats in the south end.

[cmonyoureds]

I'd do anything to get into a 112 type atmosphere, moving from 110.

Question I've always had is how would SG's control or distribute tix? Would you have to ask MLSE for their ticket list and try to match it with registered users/posters/away trip lists? And would existing season seat holders get additional seats for their family/friends/Bob down the street to make it one big "cool kids club"? Would you work through the gold and red list to get more supporters into seats?
That's why I voted "I'd have to see the plan".

[C.Ronaldo]

only if its teh same price as south end and its a supporters section

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Simple as that. I've got a good feeling the temporary stands brought in for the last match are part of a project to build permanent seating in the North End of BMO Field, and if that's true, how many people would consider moving their existing seat to the new stand?

I, for one, would likely move out of 111 and buy an additional seat in the North Stand if it were possible.
YES. I would love a permanent north stand. I'm not a SSH right now, but if given the opportunity to purchase tickets in a new north stand I would jump at it.

Just in general, though, I hate the way the beer garden makes the stadium look. Whoever heard of a 3-sided stadium? I understand that a lot of people with season tickets in the 'boring' sections go down there, and for that it's good, but I would definitely prefer a real north stand over the beer garden.

All that being said, though, my priority will always be to get a season ticket in 112.

[flatpicker]

I'd do anything to get into a 112 type atmosphere, moving from 110.

Question I've always had is how would SG's control or distribute tix? Would you have to ask MLSE for their ticket list and try to match it with registered users/posters/away trip lists? And would existing season seat holders get additional seats for their family/friends/Bob down the street to make it one big "cool kids club"? Would you work through the gold and red list to get more supporters into seats?
That's why I voted "I'd have to see the plan".


I think the only fair way to go about it is...
Have a list of all current Season Ticket Holders who are in supporter groups.
Then, in order of when they purchased their tickets, let them select their preferred seat location in the North.

I would assume NEE, RPB, U-Sec, would have territory laid out in the section,
So that would probably influence some of the seat location decision making.

Now, obviously STH Supporters will not take up that whole section.
So I think they could allot a certain amount of the remainder to be distributed through the supporter groups.
And perhaps another percentage of tickets to be other single sales.

Anyway, it will require some organising... but it's all very do-able.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

I think the only fair way to go about it is...
Have a list of all current Season Ticket Holders who are in supporter groups.
Then, in order of when they purchased their tickets, let them select their preferred seat location in the North.

I would assume NEE, RPB, U-Sec, would have territory laid out in the section,
So that would probably influence some of the seat location decision making.

Now, obviously STH Supporters will not take up that whole section.
So I think they could allot a certain amount of the remainder to be distributed through the supporter groups.
And perhaps another percentage of tickets to be other single sales.

Anyway, it will require some organising... but it's all very do-able.
I'd really love to see that, and I think it'd be best for all parties if it did happen. A sort of second bunker in the north stand would be amazing and improve the atmosphere that much more, by allowing everyone who wants to stand and sing to move into an area where they can.

[H Bomb]

I dont know why when you bought your tickets would matter? Since when is seniority a SG thing? I'd want a random draw of all SG STH's if i had anything to do with this....but that would assume there isnt preferential within the groups....But when does time have anything to do with your support? Do you love your 5 year old more than your 2 year old?

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

I think the seniority thing assumes the more likely situation, in which TFC and not the supporters groups administer tickets. I don't think they'd be willing to give us control over a section, though obviously it'd be fantastic if they did.

[MartinUtd]

I would definitely consider it. Especially to get away from the self appointed capo in upper 111 (row 30-32ish). Not only can they not hold a beat to save their lives, but they do that ridiculous "you suck asshole" thing on goal kicks.

I really wanted to make a thread pinpointing how bad those guys are but figured there's enough negativity going around with the loss and all.

[flatpicker]

I dont know why when you bought your tickets would matter? Since when is seniority a SG thing? I'd want a random draw of all SG STH's if i had anything to do with this....but that would assume there isnt preferential within the groups....But when does time have anything to do with your support? Do you love your 5 year old more than your 2 year old?


I think the seniority thing assumes the more likely situation, in which TFC and not the supporters groups administer tickets. I don't think they'd be willing to give us control over a section, though obviously it'd be fantastic if they did.


^ pretty much it.


H Bomb... you have to be fair in these situations so that no complaints arise.

when you bought your ST's has nothing to do with your level of support,
It wasn't exactly kind of you to twist my words to make it sound like I implied such a thing.

but date of purchase still gives you seniority over seat location within the section.


this is about first come first serve....

[flatpicker]

btw...

are any of you who voted NO currently sitting in a supporter section?

because I would assume that if a North Supporter Grandstand is built,
all the other supporter sections would then lose their current "supporter" status.

[prizby]

I'd do anything to get into a 112 type atmosphere, moving from 110.

Question I've always had is how would SG's control or distribute tix? Would you have to ask MLSE for their ticket list and try to match it with registered users/posters/away trip lists? And would existing season seat holders get additional seats for their family/friends/Bob down the street to make it one big "cool kids club"? Would you work through the gold and red list to get more supporters into seats?
That's why I voted "I'd have to see the plan".

do what philadelphia is doing

but like flat picker said, anyone in the south, by order of season tickets, contingent on them joining (maybe one day) just a united supporter group, 1 membership fee, 1 ticket fee, all singing!

[scooter]

yes i just changed my mind on this why can't the supporters groups take over the south where we can monitor it ourselves
let the scalpers have the north end tickets with the soccer moms and leave us alone
i would jump on tickets in the south if that was the case
if we are really going to have a fantastic supporters section then thats what the club should do

[Shep]

^ pretty much it.


H Bomb... you have to be fair in these situations so that no complaints arise.

when you bought your ST's has nothing to do with your level of support,
It wasn't exactly kind of you to twist my words to make it sound like I implied such a thing.

but date of purchase still gives you seniority over seat location within the section.


this is about first come first serve....


I say run it like Fear Factor! Compete for the tickets :D

I'll eat a bull's testicle np for a ST package :scarf:

kidding...about the Fear Factor thing...the only fair way to run a list would be seniority, even though that leaves me out. But I'm serious about eating the bull ball! I'll do it, right now, for a chance to buy myself a spot. I want in that bad.

[flatpicker]

^ seniority shouldn't be an issue... I doubt we have 1000 members! So it would only be a matter of first choice at seats.... not if you get seats.

[Dirk Diggler]

Maybe I'm missing something here but why are people automatically assuming that this will be turned into not only a permanent fixture but also a supporters section? To be honest, I don't see MLSE replacing the beer garden with cheap seats nor do I think they share our concern as to how much needs to be done in order to appease the "true" supporters as much as possible.

[Shep]

Maybe I'm missing something here but why are people automatically assuming that this will be turned into not only a permanent fixture but also a supporters section? To be honest, I don't see MLSE replacing the beer garden with cheap seats nor do I think they share our concern as to how much needs to be done in order to appease the "true" supporters as much as possible.

I can see the seating going in for sure.

As for expecting it to be a SS, we're not, just shooting the shit about it. Hopefully MLSE will see the value in it, but I doubt anyone has any very serious expectations. It's in their hands, not ours.

Hopefully they'll get that having the pitch bookended by dedicated groups would only enhance the atmosphere, live and on the tv box.

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

If they were to make a permanent one.. they should give it to the SG's.


That would be good that way we can sound like one .

[daner90]

I would love it. Being on the redlist and not all that wealthy at this time, my shots of getting season seats are not that good right now. If TFC FO was smart and gave RPB (or Usec, NEE) alloted tickets in a new North Stand and that would help my chances I would love it. I need a place in the stadium to call home lol

[grizzle]

Maybe I'm missing something here but why are people automatically assuming that this will be turned into not only a permanent fixture but also a supporters section? To be honest, I don't see MLSE replacing the beer garden with cheap seats nor do I think they share our concern as to how much needs to be done in order to appease the "true" supporters as much as possible.

I don't see what they have to lose from replacing the beer garden? Its not like it really generates "new money". If the people drinking over there couldn't drink in that area, they would just buy their beers and go to their seats. 1000 extra seats at say $20/game is still $20,000/game. I think $20 is even a low estimate as they could charge slightly more for these seats and keep this as a non supporters or more family friendly section (see below for why). Add on an extra avg. of like $10 spent per person (probably a lowball estimate) there and thats an additional $10,000 in rev. Depending on how much it would cost to build, it could be a very profitable venture especially considering several games are charged at premium/higher than the normal pricing.

Paul mentioned in another post that there is a lot of wasted space up there in front too, so they think they could probably get even more than the 1000 seats in there.

The only thing I can think might be an issue with them putting a suporters section there is it is so close to their corporate sponsor booths. They will probably want to keep these separate.

[billyfly]

I would love it. Being on the redlist and not all that wealthy at this time, my shots of getting season seats are not that good right now. If TFC FO was smart and gave RPB (or Usec, NEE) alloted tickets in a new North Stand and that would help my chances I would love it. I need a place in the stadium to call home lol


I'll make sure to mention to MLSE that you're a Leaf hating Philly fan when the time comes.:D:hump::)

[Cashcleaner]

btw...

are any of you who voted NO currently sitting in a supporter section?

because I would assume that if a North Supporter Grandstand is built,
all the other supporter sections would then lose their current "supporter" status.

I don't see that happening. Why would the South End suddenly stop being a Supporters area?

If anything, what we should be vying for is a situation where all the louder, more intense supporters are encouraged to move out of their existing sections spread out amongst the stadium and concentrated into the North and South Ends. Think about all the RPB and U-Sector members with seats outside of 113, 112, and 111. If you combine them all together I'm sure you could fill up quite a few seats in a North Stand.

[barca99]

Cool idea! Most stadia have 1 end with the hard-core supporters. To have both ends going crazy would be awesome. No relief for the visiting team, especially goalie!

[morgank1986]

I think that 114-118 take cues from the south east corner in terms of singing. If RPB and U-Sector move out of the south to the north I worry that the rest of the south will quiet down considerably.

What if only 1 group moved out of the south? Say U-Sector. The vacated U-Sector seats can be filled by RPB who are scattered throughout BMO and those on the waiting list. In this situation We would have both sides of the field going.

[King Tut]

I'm more than happy with where I am. (Section 127)

[redcard]

isnt anyone concerned that moving to a north will limit the growth of the SGs in the stadium...i dont see two mini buildings being torn down to allow for more cheaper seats...so the north grandstand would likely be the same size as it was for the PI match...

i think making it a official family section that is cheaper than the south would get the families out of the south...

the key would be that you would have to relocate to that section and not be able to pick up additional tickets...

to incourage the families let them know that the seats will be removed from the south to make it a true supporters section...just like in saputo...

[FluSH]

I WOULD MOVE ALL RED PATCH BOYS TO THE NORTH STAND


http://www.hennessy.id.au/quentingeorge/archives/Moses-parting-red-sea.jpg

TO THE PROMISED LAND

[boban]

I'm more than happy with where I am. (Section 127)
You're in the north already.

[egoodwin]

I'm more than happy with where I am. (Section 127)
x2....

[flatpicker]

^ easy to say when 127 is right beside the north stand!

[flatpicker]

I don't see that happening. Why would the South End suddenly stop being a Supporters area?

If anything, what we should be vying for is a situation where all the louder, more intense supporters are encouraged to move out of their existing sections spread out amongst the stadium and concentrated into the North and South Ends. Think about all the RPB and U-Sector members with seats outside of 113, 112, and 111. If you combine them all together I'm sure you could fill up quite a few seats in a North Stand.


well... a couple of things...

first, my ideal vision of a north stand would mean the full width of the field.
Yes, I know there are to little brick houses on either side... not sure what they would do there, but I doubt it would require NASA to make the appropriate changes.

second, I would seriously be surprised if the FO decided to add a north stand, make it a supporters section, and keep all the current supporter sections as well.

That's a lot of supporter sections to manage!
I think we would be no further ahead than we are today.
Even if it was just the south end that kept supporter status along with the new North end...
I just think that is spreading us too thin.

If the north section remains the size it is now, then I think we could fit all the current supporters into it with no problem and have several tickets left over that we could distribute to non-STH members.

If the north section ends up being larger (the full width of field, and perhaps about 2000 seats), then it would be silly and counterproductive for the supporters to be divided between the south and north.

Let's face it, besides standing up and shouting the occasional TFC chant, the majority of people in the South today are not in a supporter group and have little intention of ever joining. It would take years to convert the south into a full blown supporter section.

The north would solve all that and more.

Those of you who enjoy the supporter atmosphere, yet say you are happy where you are:
Believe me, you will be even happier if all of us can be united in one area.

I love my seats in 111... I love the view... but grouping our efforts into one area is just too good to pass up.

[Parkdale]

let's put on our logic caps....


If MLSE was going to add #### new seats to the stadium, do you think they
would be at a low, or even moderate price point? I doubt it. They would probably
put in mid level priced seats (like $500-$700) per season, and that would negate
any chance of it being a supporters section.

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to see it, but I just can't see MLSE putting
in cheap seats when they could be selling more expensive ones. Hell... look at the $10,000 tables!

[billyfly]

I wonder if is Season Seat licences are on their way in?

[flatpicker]

let's put on our logic caps....


If MLSE was going to add #### new seats to the stadium, do you think they
would be at a low, or even moderate price point? I doubt it. They would probably
put in mid level priced seats (like $500-$700) per season, and that would negate
any chance of it being a supporters section.

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to see it, but I just can't see MLSE putting
in cheap seats when they could be selling more expensive ones. Hell... look at the $10,000 tables!

this point has been raised many times in the past...

But I don't buy it.

First of all, X number of seats in the north, no matter how you look at it, translates into profit.
Even at a low price point, that is still a good chunk of coin.
Then, add to that all the extra food and drink sales.... that's a whole lot more coin.
Plus, making it the supporter section will relieve the FO of a lot of the hassles it has today with our current mish-mash set-up.

Now, adding more high-priced seats may sound good.
But just look at how many seats sit empty these days.
Ok, maybe a number of the new expensive seats would sell... but a good number of them won't get used.
It's the cheap seats that fill up during games.
And you need people in the seats to spend all that crazy money on concessions.
Having more people in seats translates into better atmosphere, and better atmosphere is good for business as well.

I just can't shake the belief that if BMO expands with higher priced seating, then it will be the start of a slow decline in TFC's popularity.

[Parkdale]

First of all, X number of seats in the north, no matter how you look at it, translates into profit.
Even at a low price point, that is still a good chunk of coin.
Then, add to that all the extra food and drink sales.... that's a whole lot more coin.
Plus, making it the supporter section will relieve the FO of a lot of the hassles it has today with our current mish-mash set-up.

Now, adding more high-priced seats may sound good.
But just look at how many seats sit empty these days.

sorry, but most there's too much logic against your points.

1) current supporters will not leave where they are. full stop.
2) they would add medium priced seats, which still sell out.
3) yes more seats is more profit, but more expensive seats tend to spend more on other concessions than cheap seats.

the only way it would work as a supporters section is IF the supporters are willing to move.
and from the sounds of it.... not everyone is.

[bertal]

it would be great... because if you notice the north end goal is where most away teams score anyway. if we had a stand there it would add some intimidation.

[egoodwin]

sorry, but most there's too much logic against your points.

1) current supporters will not leave where they are. full stop.
2) they would add medium priced seats, which still sell out.
3) yes more seats is more profit, but more expensive seats tend to spend more on other concessions than cheap seats.

the only way it would work as a supporters section is IF the supporters are willing to move.
and from the sounds of it.... not everyone is.
qft.

[fetajr]

I'd transfer in a heartbeat. Hopefully its General Admission Supporters Section with benches, no seats, just benches.

[TorontoBlades]

let's put on our logic caps....


If MLSE was going to add #### new seats to the stadium, do you think they
would be at a low, or even moderate price point? I doubt it. They would probably
put in mid level priced seats (like $500-$700) per season, and that would negate
any chance of it being a supporters section.

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to see it, but I just can't see MLSE putting
in cheap seats when they could be selling more expensive ones. Hell... look at the $10,000 tables!

and herein lies the logic that ruins the debate for the rest of us :o

[JonO]

They would probably
put in mid level priced seats (like $500-$700) per season, and that would negate
any chance of it being a supporters section.

The $10,000 dollar tables are fieldside and have service at your table. It appeals to a much different crowd than those would sit behind the goal. Pricing in the level you've suggested would be a terrible mistake imho...

[FluSH]

sorry, but most there's too much logic against your points.

1) current supporters will not leave where they are. full stop.
2) they would add medium priced seats, which still sell out.
3) yes more seats is more profit, but more expensive seats tend to spend more on other concessions than cheap seats.

the only way it would work as a supporters section is IF the supporters are willing to move.
and from the sounds of it.... not everyone is.

Well I am willing to move and take the EMPIRE WITH ME!!! LOL

(as long as the ticket prices are the same)

[Parkdale]

Well I am willing to move and take the EMPIRE WITH ME!!! LOL

(as long as the ticket prices are the same)



^ so you want to have your cake, and eat it too, and save some for later, and eat it again?

[MG42]

^ so you want to have your cake, and eat it too, and save some for later, and eat it again?

Why wouldn't the seats be at the same price point as the south end?. End zone seats are usually always cheaper in any stadium.

[Parkdale]

Why wouldn't the seats be at the same price point as the south end?. End zone seats are usually always cheaper in any stadium.


because of supply & demand.

even if they have the exact same sightlines as 115, people are willing to pay more, so they will.

[morgank1986]

If the seats are put in in the North I cannot see them cost any more than the South. Yes it would make more sense for MLSE to add in mid range price seats rather than cheap ones but how could they justify charging more for the seats in the North which would be almost identical for the seats in the south?

[Hitcho]

Not sure I agree with you Parky. I think Flats has made some pretty good points in his post above. In particular:

- i really cannot see more expensive seats being sold, other than to touts maybe (which is a double whammy since the FO gets the cash and the stadium gets more empty seats per game); and

- look at the results of this poll, over 80% are in the yes or maybe bracket, so what makes you think most of the supporters would stay put? I'm not saying you;re wrong, just wondering where you are coming from on that one. My own feeling is that the supporter group fans will either go en masse or not at all. It'll be a snowball effect because once a few start committing to it, the rest will follow out of fear of being left behind in what becomes a crappy section, or missing the chance ot get out of a dull section and into a supporters section in what's probably a one off opportunity to relcoate into something like that. There are always threads on these boards about people wanting to support more vocally or stand up or whatever in the sections they are in, but are unable to do so. All those people will likely move, and a trickle from the bunker will become a flood once people realise they may be left behind. not everyone, but enough to make the plan work, imho.

EDIT - afterall, what's the bunker with the bulk of the RPB and U-Sector gone? It's a family or tout filled section with a glorious history and not much else...

[T-Bird]

I don't think they would cost more than the south end...it would be a little silly to sell them at a higher cost when they basically have the same view just from the other end. That being said, as a supporter who is not a STH I would buy them even if they were a little more expensive.

[FluSH]

Not sure I agree with you Parky. I think Flats has made some pretty good points in his post above. In particular:

- i really cannot see more expensive seats being sold, other than to touts maybe (which is a double whammy since the FO gets the cash and the stadium gets more empty seats per game); and

- look at the results of this poll, over 80% are in the yes or maybe bracket, so what makes you think most of the supporters would stay put? I'm not saying you;re wrong, just wondering where you are coming from on that one. My own feeling is that the supporter group fans will either go en masse or not at all. It'll be a snowball effect because once a few start committing to it, the rest will follow out of fear of being left behind in what becomes a crappy section, or missing the chance ot get out of a dull section and into a supporters section in what's probably a one off opportunity to relcoate into something like that. There are always threads on these boards about people wanting to support more vocally or stand up or whatever in the sections they are in, but are unable to do so. All those people will likely move, and a trickle from the bunker will become a flood once people realise they may be left behind. not everyone, but enough to make the plan work, imho.

EDIT - afterall, what's the bunker with the bulk of the RPB and U-Sector gone? It's a family or tout filled section with a glorious history and not much else...

+1

If you follow... the North will be 112 on steroids

[wzhxvy]

Disclaimer: I am a bit of die hard

Also I hate to say this but outside of the bottom half of 112...the south end is not CONSISTENTLY a true supporters section and people can hate on me all they want, but thats my opinion...standing up does not make you a supporter. If we are EVER going to have a true supporters section with the people who are willing to chant, jump, wave, god forbid touch each other, wave flags, and ready to be part of a group (ie not put a banner up and be satisfied with their contribution)...then THIS is the time. And a message to Paul and crew...the atmosphere is a big selling point of TFC...people sit in their west side seats and get a lot enjoyment from the crazies that act like caged animals in the corner. If you multiply that effect by at least 3,4,5 times...you will have something special. Especially with the proximity to my NEE brothers in the corner :-)

[Parkdale]

I'm not sold that a north stand would be better than how it is now.

112 is rocking, and so is 111, and it's rocking because WE MAKE IT ROCK.

would a new section be as good? that's almost impossible to say.

plus... it's much farther back from the pitch

[Hitcho]

Parky - wzhxvy is right on both counts. The south end taken as a whole sucks. it has pockets of good supporter noise (by which i mean coherent, unified support not just people shouting), the best of which is front half of 112 and 113. It's also true that only really the front half of 112 is rocking during games. I've seen that from my seats in 118 and i know people in 112 who have backed that up.

So what you have to imagine is the rocking part of 112 augmented by all the various people around the stadium who would join in with that IF they sat in 112. I'm willing to bet that there are a LOT of people on that list. Much of the south end falls into that bracket (see all the threads on how to get the various pockets working together) and there are all kinds of people in non-SG sections wanting to get into one. Hell, even the people close by who are not really that into it would get swept up by the noise and fervour and start joining in with at least some of the supporter chnats and songs. And that, surely, is the point of it all, no? To lead the line and sweep everyone else along with it for maximum TFC support on our home ground?

Also, 112 right now is isolated in a corner of the ground. Imagine increasing the core part of the group by a factor of several times, maybe as much as ten, and having it placed in a CENTRAL part of the stadium, not a corner. Even bigger impact.

[Hustle]

I voted yes, but

1. Must give the SG's control over the seats.
2. No seats, and increase the density of the supporters about 10%.
(i.e Sell more tickets for the same amount of space. )
3. Some kind of sound enhancing structural design.

Nobody can tell me it can;t be done. They are making $3mill profit on this Madrid friendly alone!

[Hitcho]

I voted yes, but

1. Must give the SG's control over the seats.
2. No seats, and increase the density of the supporters about 10%.
(i.e Sell more tickets for the same amount of space. )
3. Some kind of sound enhancing structural design.

Nobody can tell me it can;t be done. They are making $3mill profit on this Madrid friendly alone!

1 and 2 won't happen, just cannot mlse agreeing to give up control of part of their stadium. At best it will be SG approval before the club issues season tickets as usual. otherwise, ina dditiont ot the lack of control issue for mlse over its own stadium, there's too big a risk of people getting their seats taken away from them or moved for no good reason.

as for no seats, i would think safety concerns and regulatory planning will scupper that one.

3 is a friggin great idea though - if you;re gonna build an SG stand, then definitely big up the acoustics for it.

PAUL B - TAKE NOTE OF THE ACOUSTICS IDEA ABOVE!!! :D:D:D

[wzhxvy]

I'm not sold that a north stand would be better than how it is now.

112 is rocking, and so is 111, and it's rocking because WE MAKE IT ROCK.

would a new section be as good? that's almost impossible to say.

plus... it's much farther back from the pitch


All of 112 is rocking ? seriously ? I have to disagree.

And 111...That I have seen once in a while but not consistenly and absolutely not even half of 111...for freaks sake some people choose to sit in 111 !!!

I think people maybe taking this a bit too personally (not you Parky) wrt to their seats in South End...no one is suggesting people be forced to move, everyone should have a choice. But if given a choice I would love for us as a group to capitalize on this opportunity. And lets get real...we do a better job when we are away because we have a concentration of 300 of us vs. the 3000 -or whatever the number is -"generalist" supporters in the South End.

[Parkdale]

All of 112 is rocking ? seriously ? I have to disagree.

I think people maybe taking this a bit too personally (not you Parky) wrt to their seats in South End..


the majority of 112 does get involved with the bounce, the massive an 'heavy involvement chants'. Certainly more than any other section in the south.

and don't worry... I don't take anything personal in here (plus I sit in the prawn section)

[Hitcho]

the majority of 112 does get involved with the bounce, the massive an 'heavy involvement chants'. Certainly more than any other section in the south.

and don't worry... I don't take anything personal in here (plus I sit in the prawn section)

See, this is your ticket into a dedicated non-prawnie stand dude - ha ha! :D

[Parkdale]

See, this is your ticket into a dedicated non-prawnie stand dude - ha ha! :D


haha... I also have seats in a supporters section, but they're my coworkers in my name.


besides, I will never give up my prawnie seats. They are the best seats in the house! (if you're into watching the game)

[Hustle]

Paul, if your reading this, If you want to get more people in the casual seats ie. have a successful expansion someday, MLSE needs to help us concentrate the supporters scattered all over the place into one area. With the MLS quality of football, the atmosphere is even MORE important to keep the stands full.

We need both casuals and supporters to fill the stadium, and the way you do it is by making sure your vocal supporters are happy, loud, concentrated and segregated.

I don't think the attendance will suffer dramatically without this change, but I certainly think it won't grow and will slowly decrease.

Right now, even in 111 you can get looked at sideways for trying to get someone to bounce with you...and I am not talking about fellow supporters who are just not into it. I am talking about tourists. Its not wrong that they don;t want to bounce but there are too many of them wrongly in the "supporters sections".

I think for everyone who comes to a game who loves sitting with a supporter, there is another silent person who puts up with it, but is turned off by the experience. 111 is a mixture and you can see the people who are like" this is the best sporting event I've ever been too" and the others ones that are like "Get me out of here!". They may like to talk about the supporters they saw at the game at arms length, but there just not the type of people to bounce and sing and get hit in the face by my flag...

For the good of both types of people we need to have our own place.

[King Tut]

You're in the north already.

Yeah. Meaning personally, I wouldn't want to be with the other SGs. I am happy with NEE in our section, doing our own thing, chanting what we want, having decent control over our section, etc. Nothing against RPB, U-Sector, TRN or anyone. Just think that every group has their differences and I wouldn't want to see NEE mixed in with the other groups at home games and sharing sections. I love the fact that NEE is tucked away on our own.

[cmonyoureds]

the majority of 112 does get involved with the bounce, the massive an 'heavy involvement chants'. Certainly more than any other section in the south.

and don't worry... I don't take anything personal in here (plus I sit in the prawn section)

112 gets props, but from my vantage point in 110 it's usually carried a great deal by the bottom several rows. It may be an entire section for under a minute, but then dies quickly. Not that there still shouldn't be kudos for the fact that it actually happens, short amount of time or not.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

112 gets props, but from my vantage point in 110 it's usually carried a great deal by the bottom several rows. It may be an entire section for under a minute, but then dies quickly. Not that there still shouldn't be kudos for the fact that it actually happens, short amount of time or not.
Yeah, the front few rows are usually the only ones that stay involved the whole game, but that's partially because a lot of seats in the back rows are obviously owned by scalpers. If you come in 15 minutes or so before kickoff, there are always people in those back rows sitting down as if they don't know it's a standing section, which to me indicates that they bought them off scalpers. Give us a section where everyone in it wants to get involved, and it'll be absolutely epic.

[egoodwin]

Yeah. Meaning personally, I wouldn't want to be with the other SGs. I am happy with NEE in our section, doing our own thing, chanting what we want, having decent control over our section, etc. Nothing against RPB, U-Sector, TRN or anyone. Just think that every group has their differences and I wouldn't want to see NEE mixed in with the other groups at home game. I love the fact that NEE is tucked away on our own.
same here 100%

[Cashcleaner]

Yeah. Meaning personally, I wouldn't want to be with the other SGs. I am happy with NEE in our section, doing our own thing, chanting what we want, having decent control over our section, etc. Nothing against RPB, U-Sector, TRN or anyone. Just think that every group has their differences and I wouldn't want to see NEE mixed in with the other groups at home game. I love the fact that NEE is tucked away on our own.

Hmmmm, I'm kinda the opposite. I like the fact that right now in the South End we've got U-Sector beside us helping to carry the atmosphere and singing in unison. As I mentioned previously, I think it would kinda suck if both the groups from the South End moved away from each other. I think we just sound that much better as one larger group than anything.

[TFC John]

A true SG section would be awesome. By that I mean NO SCALPER TICKETS and no casuals who just want to see the atmosphere up close but not contribute. It would also be great for the SGs to actually be able to speak for their sections and to exert some control over them. The problems that sometimes arise in the stadium are due to people who feel they can be somewhat anonymous while they act like idiots. You can't do that if everyone around you knows who you are. If you had a section where someone had to vouch for you in order to buy tickets it would be the best disciplined section in the stadium. There would be no fights or beer throwing or flares or any other incidents that we have seen at BMO because we would control ourselves and be much more likely to work together to raise the atmosphere.

It seems MLSE has tried to help us bring supporters together with their ticket relocations. However, since you can't force someone to move if they don't want to, those efforts have never been completely successful. The only way to create an all supporters section is through expansion. Perhaps there are not enough members in the supporters groups to fill the whole north end but it would be great to see a solid block of seats reserved for supporters groups only.

I would also suggest that people be allowed to relocate only - not buy additional seats. You only have one ass so why would you need more than one seat? Certainly buying in pairs makes sense and if you bring kids they need to be with you. But buying additional seats for your friends just denies the people on the waiting list a chance at those tickets. If your friends really want to come to the games they should buy tickets for themselves. Expansion should first and foremost be used to allow more fans into the stadium not just reward the ones that are already here.

Another way to do it might be for the RPB to buy a small block of tickets within their designated area but not assign them to any individuals. These could be a Friends and Family section. If you want to bring friends from out of town you trade in your ticket and purchase the number you need all together for whichever game you want. Any odd tickets left over are sold to members who can only make a few games because they live out of town or whatever. This would be like the RPB Nomads service but all of the tickets would be in the same area.

[boban]

Yeah. Meaning personally, I wouldn't want to be with the other SGs. I am happy with NEE in our section, doing our own thing, chanting what we want, having decent control over our section, etc. Nothing against RPB, U-Sector, TRN or anyone. Just think that every group has their differences and I wouldn't want to see NEE mixed in with the other groups at home game. I love the fact that NEE is tucked away on our own.
And this is precisely the attitude why this will not be a success. Everyone likes their little fiefdoms. Too many chants at different times from each other.

Individually not doing a hell of a lot, but collectively we can.

[Super]

And this is precisely the attitude why this will not be a success. Everyone likes their little fiefdoms. Too many chants at different times from each other.

Individually not doing a hell of a lot, but collectively we can.

I fully agree with you on that. NEE is doing a fantastic job, but if we could all find ourselves in the same section we'd rock the house in ways never seen in this league before. RPB used to not do well with U-Sector either, and we'd do different chants all the time to keep our individuality - and it hurt the atmosphere. Now, working together, the atmosphere is so much better. It should be about supporting the team, and not building a supporters group with logo's of our groups and such. Let's support the team, promote the team, and be about the team first and foremost - and then supporters group brand second.

[egoodwin]

why not just let the supporters in each supporters group decide what they want for their supporter group, if a supporter group members choose to stay separate from the mass, what right do you have as someone not part of that group to say otherwise?

[FluSH]

why not just let the supporters in each supporters group decide what they want for their supporter group, if a supporter group members choose to stay separate from the mass, what right do you have as someone not part of that group to say otherwise?

I don't think anyone here is truly saying they want to join all supporter groups together...

RPB and Usector have gelled well together in the stands... yes as Super stated it wasn't always a smooth ride, but now things are going really well. I can't speak for Usector to see if they would join us in the North, but it would be great. (If such a move is on the table of course)

What I do want, and what the majority that I speak to also want is a cleansed RPB section. No scalpers, no casuals... all RPB or friends of RPB who want to support and chant with us... (notice I said friends because there are non-members here on this board that still give it their all with us even though they aren't officially members).

So with that said... noone is saying for NEE to move out of 127... Personally, I would like to carve a new territory for RPB where we controlled the tickets like Barra Brava, and where all of those who want to support with us can join us.

[Roogsy]

Why are we even talking about this? This is not even in the foreseeable future. I know it's nice to speculate, but some people might get their noses out of joint. I think perhaps it's a topic for discussion when expansion is a real possibility in the near future.

Theres a funny expression in Ecuador that reminds me of this. It's the equivalent of "don't count your chickens before they're hatched".

Expansion would be nice. Hopefully when it happens, SGs will be able to control our sections more fully.

Until then...I am disinterested in this topic.

[FluSH]

And this is precisely the attitude why this will not be a success. Everyone likes their little fiefdoms. Too many chants at different times from each other.

Individually not doing a hell of a lot, but collectively we can.

We can't get all RPB's in the same section... The South is doing great as it is... but we can't seat all RPB's who are scattered accross BMO in 112/111. It's like having a party and yet you can't accomodate all of your family that want to be there for the party... imagine if you could? imagine how grand that would be? That's what I WANT.

[Gixmo]

Why abandon the south end for 'thought' in the wind???

111/112 is a great area. I for one, would stay where I am...

Give the north to the soccer moms and let us deal with the south..

[FluSH]

Why are we even talking about this? This is not even in the foreseeable future. I know it's nice to speculate, but some people might get their noses out of joint. I think perhaps it's a topic for discussion when expansion is a real possibility in the near future.

Theres a funny expression in Ecuador that reminds me of this. It's the equivalent of "don't count your chickens before they're hatched".

Expansion would be nice. Hopefully when it happens, SGs will be able to control our sections more fully.

Until then...I am disinterested in this topic.

Hypothetical scenarios are always fun...

[Roogsy]

Hypothetical scenarios are always fun...

LOL! Indeed.

I'd prefer to speculate on parade routes for TFC when we win the cup though. :D

[FluSH]

Why abandon the south end for 'thought' in the wind???

111/112 is a great area. I for one, would stay where I am...

Give the north to the soccer moms and let us deal with the south..

Scalper seats and the fact that I can't chant with many of our members who are scattered accross the stadium.

If they gave us control of our Section... a truly RPB section. I would leave. 500 members + friends + affiliates... = ALL SUPPORT

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

Yeah. Meaning personally, I wouldn't want to be with the other SGs. I am happy with NEE in our section, doing our own thing, chanting what we want, having decent control over our section, etc. Nothing against RPB, U-Sector, TRN or anyone. Just think that every group has their differences and I wouldn't want to see NEE mixed in with the other groups at home game. I love the fact that NEE is tucked away on our own.


This is why we will never sound like one b/c of all the diffent SG's.if we were all together in one section BMO would rock and we would sound like one.When i go home after the game i watch the replay it sound's all fucked up you got the RPB doing one thing then you got the NEE doin there own thing and it sound's like shit. I think we need one area that is for SG's only and that all, If your not in a SG to bad u can't seat there.

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

Scalper seats and the fact that I can't chant with many of our members who are scattered accross the stadium.

If they gave us control of our Section... a truly RPB section. I would leave. 500 members + friends + affiliates... = ALL SUPPORT

I with you on that , I have never watch a game from 112 only from 111 and 114 we need to be put together in one section all RPB and other SG's so we can sound like one

[FluSH]

Also, one last thing... having to work with Usector beside us has given us a priceless experience... Even though we've had our many differences off the pitch... come game time... all is forgotten and we do our best to work together. I love the way things are moving in the South and with Usector. Obviously I would never give up on trying to make the South a better atmosphere... but if we had control of our own section it would be 10 times easier...

[Roogsy]

My personal hope is that if they do open up the north stands that the opposite happens.

That the team encourages current season ticket holders that aren't in a supporters group to move there and then leave 112/113 open only to current members of RPB/Usector members But that is unlikely.

The truth is that there are just too many issues to deal with that makes my head spin. I'd rather not think about expansion because it's going to be a clusterfuck. I think we are all afraid of it.

[AL-MO]

This is all hypothetical bullshit.

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

[Cashcleaner]

why not just let the supporters in each supporters group decide what they want for their supporter group, if a supporter group members choose to stay separate from the mass, what right do you have as someone not part of that group to say otherwise?

I have a question.

You see its just that we're not talking about your group in 127 at all. We're speculating about RPB and/or U-Sector snatching up seats in a possible North Stand. I'm trying hard to understand how would a move of one or both of our groups would affect where you guys are sitting.

Help a brother out here.

[flatpicker]

not saying it will happen...

but what's to stop the FO from building a north stand,
and then announcing that it will be the new and only supporter group stand at BMO?
Thus making all current supporter sections into "normal" sections.
They might do it just so BMO is better organised in the sense that there are appropriate locations for supporters, families etc.
And they might do it so that it's easier to manage and communicate with the supporter groups (if they were all in one section).

They would have the power to do it (it is their team and they do control the rights and privileges of sections)
If they did, I don't think it would be out of spite towards current supporter sections,
they may just see it as benefiting everyones interests.

[wzhxvy]

Hey I have a ton of respect for NEE for a number of reasons that I have discussed in many threads before. I think they bring it game in and game out and support for the right reasons IMO. And if they chose to stay where they are, that is their choice that they are entitled to. But lets be real, if they create a North End with SG/Supporters running the show, 127 will become much less significant because they will be drowned out and overshadowed by whatever antics are happening in the North End. If it was me...I would rather join'em than try to fight them but I am not in NEE and its their decision.

[FluSH]

not saying it will happen...

but what's to stop the FO from building a north stand,
and then announcing that it will be the new and only supporter group stand at BMO?
Thus making all current supporter sections into "normal" sections.
They might do it just so BMO is better organised in the sense that there are appropriate locations for supporters, families etc.
And they might do it so that it's easier to manage and communicate with the supporter groups (if they were all in one section).

They would have the power to do it (it is their team and they do control the rights and privileges of sections)
If they did, I don't think it would be out of spite towards current supporter sections,
they may just see it as benefiting everyones interests.

They did it in Columbus and it has worked 10 fold...

[boban]

This is all hypothetical bullshit.

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Hypothetical now? Yes.
Bullshit? Absolutely not.
Paul himself alluded to the fact that north end may be in the cards pretty soon. I thinks its good to let the discussion take place now so people have time to think about it and have time to get over their "I like where I am now" complex and think of the greater good and bigger picture instead.

[wzhxvy]

No one will move, even if they aren't into chanting, no one will give up their coveted supporters section tickets where you can "experience craaaazy Toronto FC fans (by standing around and not contributing at all)".

I think that is a valid point...but this whole thing does not have an easy solution. If you move all "supporters" to the North End, will you actually improve things or also move the people that stand and do nothing over to the North End.

I know people blame the families in the South End but thats only part of the problem (moving them will not fix matters)...its the other 50% who just stand there that are the issue. If they want cheap seats to stand in thats fine but thats not what we need in a real Supporter's section.

But as I said before, MLSE would be smart to find a way to consolidate the crazies in one section.

[AL-MO]

Hypothetical now? Yes.
Bullshit? Absolutely not.
Paul himself alluded to the fact that north end may be in the cards pretty soon. I thinks its good to let the discussion take place now so people have time to think about it and have time to get over their "I like where I am now" complex and think of the greater good and bigger picture instead.

Yeah I hear ya.

'Bullshit' was probably the wrong word for that post. :p

[Mikey]

let's put on our logic caps....


If MLSE was going to add #### new seats to the stadium, do you think they
would be at a low, or even moderate price point? I doubt it. They would probably
put in mid level priced seats (like $500-$700) per season, and that would negate
any chance of it being a supporters section.

Don't get me wrong, it would be great to see it, but I just can't see MLSE putting
in cheap seats when they could be selling more expensive ones. Hell... look at the $10,000 tables!

North stand seats would not be high price seats, just based on their position relative to the field. There is however a current price disparity between the various existing supporter designated sections that could be addressed, which would make them slightly more value.

I think "yellow" price sections could disappear at the end of this season and all the supporters sections including a potential north stand, would be priced at light grey (plus whatever the annual hike is). It would make for a significant price jump if you currently have yellow price tickets, it could be as much as an additional $100 per seat. This would certainly shake out a lot of casuals not prepared to pay that much for the level of footie being played. It might even cause a scalper to drop from holding say 30 tickets to 20.

However, this could free up enough seats to allow for a significant influx of new support and possibly even an organised SG pre-sale / seat transfer.

[Cashcleaner]

Just bumping this because the more people we get voting, the better idea we can get of what numbers we might be looking at for a move.

Also, to respond to the issue of pricing, I'm pretty confident North End seats would be no more pricey than they are now (I believe dark or light greys).

[FluSH]

^^^^^

What's that you say?!???! I can't hear you... I'm heading up NORTH! Let me roll down the window...



http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlDC/original/moving.jpg

[The Kingpin]

^^^^^

What's that you say?!???! I can't hear you... I'm heading up NORTH! Let me roll down the window...



http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlDC/original/moving.jpg

Is that really you in the car!!?? It looks like you! :D

[redcard]

My personal hope is that if they do open up the north stands that the opposite happens.

That the team encourages current season ticket holders that aren't in a supporters group to move there and then leave 112/113 open only to current members of RPB/Usector members But that is unlikely.

The truth is that there are just too many issues to deal with that makes my head spin. I'd rather not think about expansion because it's going to be a clusterfuck. I think we are all afraid of it.

encouraging others (families) to leave the south would be a much easier solution...it allows for further growth of the SGs...RPB and Usector namely...

[boban]

encouraging others (families) to leave the south would be a much easier solution...it allows for further growth of the SGs...RPB and Usector namely...
No it will not.
You do know that scalper have infested the south right?
Much easier to fill a new place up how you want, then purging an old one.

[redcard]

No it will not.
You do know that scalper have infested the south right?
Much easier to fill a new place up how you want, then purging an old one.

and what guarantee do you have that the scalpers wont get in to the north...technically if they are in a current supportes section dont you think that they will move as well?

keep in mind there are plenty of non affliated supporters in the south end, they may like to relocate to the north as well...how will you control their movement? by forcing them to join a supporters group?

[boban]

and what guarantee do you have that the scalpers wont get in to the north...technically if they are in a current supportes section dont you think that they will move as well?

keep in mind there are plenty of non affliated supporters in the south end, they may like to relocate to the north as well...how will you control their movement? by forcing them to join a supporters group?
The ticket would be sold through the supporter groups.
You have to be verified by one of them before you can purchase a ticket.
Simple solution.

[flatpicker]

and what guarantee do you have that the scalpers wont get in to the north...technically if they are in a current supportes section dont you think that they will move as well?

keep in mind there are plenty of non affliated supporters in the south end, they may like to relocate to the north as well...how will you control their movement? by forcing them to join a supporters group?


Perhaps you give first shot at North seats to Season Ticket Holders who are Supporter Group Members.
Then you let any Season Ticket Holder who is currently in a Supporter Section decide about moving North.

- it is about being in a "supporter section" after all... I think it's natural to assume that "supporter groups" get first crack.


As for scalpers...
Well, you can't eliminate them altogether,
But I think if you use the process I just mentioned, then you would have a lower percentage of scalpers in the North.
Keep in mind that whatever seats are left, after the supporter relocation, would be unlike other seats at BMO.
It would seem logical that non-STH Supporter Group Members would get first shot at those on a game-by-game basis.
The rest would be sold as singles in the days leading up to each game.
Not selling off remaining tickets to potential Season Ticket Buyers would be key.
Unless maybe you are a Supporter Group Member who's name has come up on the STH Waiting List?


I'm just speculating here of course...
but there would be way to limit the scalpers and maintain a high level of enthusiastic supporters within the section.

[celt-nick]

Just bumping this because the more people we get voting, the better idea we can get of what numbers we might be looking at for a move.

Also, to respond to the issue of pricing, I'm pretty confident North End seats would be no more pricey than they are now (I believe dark or light greys).


If the seats are priced as light or dark grey, would people really move from cheaper seats?

[flatpicker]

If the seats are priced as light or dark grey, would people really move from cheaper seats?


I think the North seats would be no more pricey than sitting in 111.

So even if they are more than the South End, it would only mean the difference of a couple dollars a game.

I think it would illogical to make them any more than that.
They are no better than South seats with the exception of being a Supporters Section.

[rocker]

they could still make the North end seats cheap -- just increase prices of the south end after the supporters move! ;) ;) ;)

[celt-nick]

hahaha, then I'm in - lets go!

[ilikemusic]

From an outsiders perspective, its a little annoying that so many RPB members seem to think they are entitled to whatever new seats might be put in.

Its like a young child who wants the shiny new toy all to themselves in spite of the fact that they have already got the exact same thing.

[rocker]

From an outsiders perspective, its a little annoying that so many RPB members seem to think they are entitled to whatever new seats might be put in.

Its like a young child who wants the shiny new toy all to themselves in spite of the fact that they have already got the exact same thing.

dedication has its rewards...

[redcard]

dedication has its rewards...

but i think his point is, is that there may be others interested in being in the north end that are not part of a SG group nor interested in being part of one...and they may be one of the first group of people that put there $50 deposit down when the team was announced...

which would make them feel more entitled to those possible seats over a supporters group member that joined the STH family late...

there are many issues that would need to be resolved before certain groups are given entitlement to seats...especially in a stadium were available seats are scare...dc and columbus are different as they have available seats...

[flatpicker]

From an outsiders perspective, its a little annoying that so many RPB members seem to think they are entitled to whatever new seats might be put in.

Its like a young child who wants the shiny new toy all to themselves in spite of the fact that they have already got the exact same thing.


but i think his point is, is that there may be others interested in being in the north end that are not part of a SG group nor interested in being part of one...and they may be one of the first group of people that put there $50 deposit down when the team was announced...

which would make them feel more entitled to those possible seats over a supporters group member that joined the STH family late...

there are many issues that would need to be resolved before certain groups are given entitlement to seats...especially in a stadium were available seats are scare...dc and columbus are different as they have available seats...


I think it goes beyond simply giving "supporter groups" first crack at seats.

It would have as much to do with creating a more preferable environment for all fans.

There have been countless issues and complaints since TFC began playing regarding...
- fans who feel their ability to cheer for Toronto is hindered by not being in a Supporter Section,
- families who have ended up in raucous sections and don't enjoy it
- Security sending mixed signals to different sections about what is tolerated
- fans who simply feel that our version of "support" is not conducive with theirs


By moving all Supporter Groups into the North, these issues would be minimized.

So it's not just about giving perks to supporters, it's about creating the most favourable viewing experience for all.

[ilikemusic]

I think it goes beyond simply giving "supporter groups" first crack at seats.

It would have as much to do with creating a more preferable environment for all fans.

There have been countless issues and complaints since TFC began playing regarding...
- fans who feel their ability to cheer for Toronto is hindered by not being in a Supporter Section,
- families who have ended up in raucous sections and don't enjoy it
- Security sending mixed signals to different sections about what is tolerated
- fans who simply feel that our version of "support" is not conducive with theirs


By moving all Supporter Groups into the North, these issues would be minimized.

So it's not just about giving perks to supporters, it's about creating the most favourable viewing experience for all.

I do now see your point.

The easiest way to deal with the problems that have arisen since opening day 2007 is to designate these new seats a 'supporters section' and allow anyone who wants to be a part of that atmosphere to move there.

My only concern would still be that my seats in 110 (or anyone else in a current supporters section) being left out of any move and being re-designated as non-supporters section meaning I cant stand anymore.

All just growing pains on our way to 40K I suppose.

[flatpicker]

I do now see your point.

The easiest way to deal with the problems that have arisen since opening day 2007 is to designate these new seats a 'supporters section' and allow anyone who wants to be a part of that atmosphere to move there.

My only concern would still be that my seats in 110 (or anyone else in a current supporters section) being left out of any move and being re-designated as non-supporters section meaning I cant stand anymore.

All just growing pains on our way to 40K I suppose.


Why would you be left out?
You are in a supporter group... you're a season ticket holder, yes? So you would be given the chance to move.

[redcard]

Why would you be left out?
You are in a supporter group... you're a season ticket holder, yes? So you would be given the chance to move.

i would think that being part of a supporter group means a paying member, or am i out to lunch on this assumption.

[flatpicker]

^ well, I suppose that would have to be decided between the SG's and the FO.

[Hitcho]

the decision of who gets in and who doesn;t is key to this whole concept. on the one hand, it is vital to prevent scalpers and dullards/families from getting in there and instead allowing bunker type people from around the stadium to join the existing bunker group in a new location. if that doesn;t happen, the whole thing is a waste of time and we're no better off than we are now. so to a certain extent, you need to give the SG's the right to say "no-one comes in here unless we vouch for them" and that remains a golden rule. it will be up to the SGs how they decide who to let in, and yes, there is a very real worry of some gestapo type approach and people being refused entry who maybe shouldn;t be based on support levels etc.

on the other hand, if you take away that level of gestapo control then you will likely be elft with a replica of what we have now - bunker type people mixed in with scalper seats and quiet people looking for a cheaper ticket than the dark greys. in that scenarion, it's just a waste of time.

it would need Paul B etc to sit down with Jack, Rudi etc and thrash out some details on the approval process and what happens to unsold seats. but that really needs to be done before the project gets off the ground.

EDIT - thinking about it, the best thing to do is for each recognised SG to produce a list of names they would allow in before anything else happens, just to see how the numbers stack up. to get on the list you have to indicate to the relevant SG that you'd like to move (assuming price point etc is comparable) and be approved by that SG for a seat. Then, Paul B and co have a usefual idea of how the section might fill up or not.

[Yohan]

the decision of who gets in and who doesn;t is key to this whole concept. on the one hand, it is vital to prevent scalpers and dullards/families from getting in there and instead allowing bunker type people from around the stadium to join the existing bunker group in a new location. if that doesn;t happen, the whole thing is a waste of time and we're no better off than we are now. so to a certain extent, you need to give the SG's the right to say "no-one comes in here unless we vouch for them" and that remains a golden rule. it will be up to the SGs how they decide who to let in, and yes, there is a very real worry of some gestapo type approach and people being refused entry who maybe shouldn;t be based on support levels etc.

on the other hand, if you take away that level of gestapo control then you will likely be elft with a replica of what we have now - bunker type people mixed in with scalper seats and quiet people looking for a cheaper ticket than the dark greys. in that scenarion, it's just a waste of time.

it would need Paul B etc to sit down with Jack, Rudi etc and thrash out some details on the approval process and what happens to unsold seats. but that really needs to be done before the project gets off the ground.
i never thought it was quite fair that all the cheapies were supporter sections, and if the north end is all SG, it'll leave a lot of cheapies available for casuals. heck, even sitting cheapies sections

and please. any solution that'll get rid of scalpers. and you know they'll try to infiltrate any supporter group sections by any means necessary

[ilikemusic]

Why would you be left out?
You are in a supporter group... you're a season ticket holder, yes? So you would be given the chance to move.

Not technically.

I post here, and I bought one of the original 2007 RPB scarfs, but thats as entrenched as my supporter's groupiness goes.

I have never, and probably wont ever pay for a 'membership', and I dont think membership dues should be the determinant factor in what seats are available to who.

[flatpicker]

Not technically.

I post here, and I bought one of the original 2007 RPB scarfs, but thats as entrenched as my supporter's groupiness goes.

I have never, and probably wont ever pay for a 'membership', and I dont think membership dues should be the determinant factor in what seats are available to who.


well, perhaps it could go this way...

Prior to the announcement of a new North End being installed, all supporter groups compile a list of it's current members and registered users.

Those people on the list who are STH would get first shot at North End relocation.

Anyone who registers with a supporter group after the announcement would not get the same luxury.
^ that would prevent just anyone from signing up after after the fact just so they might get these tickets.

But if supporter groups are given blocks of tickets to sell amoungst themselves, it would not seem unjust to sell them to Members first.

[Nomad]

But if supporter groups are given blocks of tickets to sell amoungst themselves, it would not seem unjust to sell them to Members first.

You'd be hard pressed to find members willing to give up their own season tickets to buy through a group. The precedent has been set and people value their ownership.

[Hitcho]

^ two things would need to be in place for the scheme to work around your concerns nomad: first, you gold on to your own, original SSH ticket until the moment of purchase of the new SG group season ticket so you do not lose ownership of a SSH package at any point; second, once you get approved by the SGs for a ticket you then just deal with the club as usual and SG's have no more control or power over anything in your SSH pack. only way i can see it working is for the SG's to give you an entry pass as a one off first time thing only, and then you just buy from and renew through the FO as usual.

[AL-MO]

I have never, and probably wont ever pay for a 'membership', and I dont think membership dues should be the determinant factor in what seats are available to who.

Either you want to be a part of a group that supports TFC or you do not. Its very simple. I don't think you do.

Don't try to use the excuse "I shouldn't have to pay a membership to get access to those tickets" Noone is making you pay. It would just a benefit of being a member.

And you're damn right that if we got access to a new north stand, our members would be getting first dibs on those seats.

[Hitcho]

well, perhaps it could go this way...

Prior to the announcement of a new North End being installed, all supporter groups compile a list of it's current members and registered users.

Those people on the list who are STH would get first shot at North End relocation.

Anyone who registers with a supporter group after the announcement would not get the same luxury.
^ that would prevent just anyone from signing up after after the fact just so they might get these tickets.

But if supporter groups are given blocks of tickets to sell amoungst themselves, it would not seem unjust to sell them to Members first.

fair enough in principle, but dangerous idea in that a whole whack of people might join up and pay the fees instead of being RU's, just to secure a ticket slot. not really what the SG's want I expect, and beyond the obvious candidates, how can the SG admin guys really tell who is a genuine SG type person wanting a shot at relocating and who is just a scalper lurking on here with intent? hence the gestapo type control that is needed. smoeone in the SGs needs to be able to vouch for you before you can get in, otherwise you could be an "imposter" - haha.

different issue is how the SG's decide who sits where once people are through the door. date of membership? current SG location in 112, 113, NEE, etc? who's best mates with the mods? drawing straws (not likely to be a popuklar choice)? lot to be thought about in this plan.

[ilikemusic]

Either you want to be a part of a group that supports TFC or you do not. Its very simple. I don't think you do.

Don't try to use the excuse "I shouldn't have to pay a membership to get access to those tickets" Noone is making you pay. It would just a benefit of being a member.

And you're damn right that if we got access to a new north stand, our members would be getting first dibs on those seats.

Then you all should have to pay seat liscences for those seats.

You seem to think you have a 'right' to those seats and it kind of makes me hope MLSE take you to the cleaners.

MLSE is the private company selling tickets here.

I didnt know RPB Inc. owned any part of the stadium.

This is the exact 'in-group' vs 'out-group' mentality that has prevented me from ever wanting to 'become' an RPB.

[H Bomb]

I agree with what Al Mo says, but not really the passion he says it with. Having an RPB membership is totally irrellevant to me, and you it seems, and many other people. It says nothing at all about your loyalty to the team, etc etc. But there has to be a way to control a north end, and making it a SG end would be one way of doing that,.....and in that case it woould only be appropriate that the members of those groups were the ones representing those groups.

[AL-MO]

I agree with what Al Mo says, but not really the passion he says it with. Having an RPB membership is totally irrellevant to me, and you it seems, and many other people. It says nothing at all about your loyalty to the team, etc etc. But there has to be a way to control a north end, and making it a SG end would be one way of doing that,.....and in that case it woould only be appropriate that the members of those groups were the ones representing those groups.

Agreed.

And RPB isn't the only 'SG' in the stadium. There are others as well. Each has its own requirements for being a member.

[Hitcho]

Either you want to be a part of a group that supports TFC or you do not. Its very simple. I don't think you do.

Don't try to use the excuse "I shouldn't have to pay a membership to get access to those tickets" Noone is making you pay. It would just a benefit of being a member.

And you're damn right that if we got access to a new north stand, our members would be getting first dibs on those seats.

I think what you mean to say here is "either you want to be part of the RPB membership or you don't". you can't question the guy's commitment to supporting TFC just because he chooses not to pay the RPB membership fees. i'm willing to bet there are plenty of people at bmo field who support just as much as paid up RPSs do but have not paid to join a SG.

as for the last sentence, this kind of thing will just start a stampede of people wanting to join up and pay the fees for one year to get through the SG section door. After that they won;t bother renewing. And let;s be honest, MLSE is not going to cede control of an entire stand to the SGs. there's just no way. they may be happy to say "yep, you guys can have an approval process in place as to who gets to buy a ticket in that stand", but after that it;s business as usual between the punter and the club. they;re not going to risk the SGs trungin away lucrative ticket sales based on principles and definitions of what constitutes a "supporter", which is a hugely variable concept depending on who you ask anyway. EDIT - also the SG's comprise various different units each with their own agenda and rules etc, and no way will MSLE leave an entire new stadn open to the vagaries of so many different approaches.

i see the sentiment and in principlei agree with it, but in reality not sure it;s the best appraoch for the SGs to take. better to say "membership is not determinative although may be considered as a factor - if you want in then you need to be known to be a supporter and not a scalper etc by someonein the SGs". that way you get the right kind of people in and don't start a stampede for fake memberships.

now when it comes to allcoating specific seats in the section as opposed to who is allowed in and who is not, then membership could come into play quite usefully to determine who gets first pick, based on sign up date, etc.

[H Bomb]

This is the exact 'in-group' vs 'out-group' mentality that has prevented me from ever wanting to 'become' an RPB.


but then you have to live with your choice. I'm the same way, and there is only one place in the world where i see an in group - out group mentality and that is on this messageboard. No one at Joes will ever scoff at you for your membership details and thats much more important than any bs politics on here

[Cashcleaner]

If the seats are priced as light or dark grey, would people really move from cheaper seats?

Some might. Some might not. For me it wouldn't be that much of a change because I'm in light greys at the moment.

[flatpicker]

You'd be hard pressed to find members willing to give up their own season tickets to buy through a group. The precedent has been set and people value their ownership.

I never said anything about giving up season tickets.

There are plenty of RPB Members who are not season ticket holders...
and they would not be considered for season tickets in the North.

This is about who is already a STH.
Then, who is also a supporter group member/ registered user.

That said,
Those members and registered users who are not STH's who get easier access to single sales in the North through their supporter group.

[ilikemusic]

.....

Very long post

....


I like you. :thumbsup:

[Hitcho]

I never said anything about giving up season tickets.

There are plenty of RPB Members who are not season ticket holders...
and they would not be considered for season tickets in the North.

This is about who is already a STH.
Then, who is also a supporter group member/ registered user.

That said,
Those members and registered users who are not STH's who get easier access to single sales in the North through their supporter group.

this is an interesting concept. it won't look good for MLSe to let people get SSH packs through the back door by allowing them into the SG stand as SSH when they were not before. that's very poor public relations in fact and will piss off a lot of people on the waiting list to boot.

any "effective" SSH package, for example by allowing a list of people preferred access to single game day tickets based on SG allegiance will also be frowned on as it is the same thing by another name.

but then again, if you don;t go for either of the above approaches, then how on earth can you make a meaningful SG stand? if you rule out all non-SSH then so many people will be off the list who might otherwise be on it. tricky one this. very tricky.

[boban]

From an outsiders perspective, its a little annoying that so many RPB members seem to think they are entitled to whatever new seats might be put in.

Its like a young child who wants the shiny new toy all to themselves in spite of the fact that they have already got the exact same thing.
I don't think you would be a member per say. At least not a paid member.
You don't have to be for U-Sector at least - and that would get you in to the SG north end. What you need to be is validated by one SG. And being a regular poster on SG boards is one way to validate.

[flatpicker]

^ this is an interesting concept. it won't look good for MLSe to let people get SSH packs through the back door by allowing them into the SG stand as SSH when they were not before. that's very poor public relations in fact and will piss off a lot of people on the waiting list to boot.

any "effective" SSH package, for example by allowing a list of people preferred access to single game day tickets based on SG allegiance will also be frowned on as it is the same thing by another name.

but then again, if you don;t go for either of the above approaches, then how on earth can you make a meaningful SG stand? if you rule out all non-SSH then so many people will be off the list who might otherwise be on it. tricky one this. very tricky.

giving some ticket distribution control to SG's is a common practice in many leagues.

if I'm not mistaken, it already happens in MLS.

But this would have nothing to do with Season Tickets.
That is first come first serve... from the waiting list.

[Hitcho]

giving some ticket distribution control to SG's is a common practice in many leagues.

if I'm not mistaken, it already happens in MLS.

But this would have nothing to do with Season Tickets.
That is first come first serve... from the waiting list.

distribution control, yes. sale/ownership control - seems unlikely to me. approval of existing SSH's for north stand season tickets, and then it's punter dealing with club - that seems viable. reserving the unsold seats for single game purchase by a list of people pre-approved by SG's sounds good in theory, but in reality it's back door SSH tickets and the admin headache for the club would be huge, unless they cede complete control of those tickets to the SGs, and I just cannot see that happening to be honest.

because then what - the ticket purchaser has a contract with the SG's, which means all contractual liability, and potentially civil/criminal depending on the circs, then lies with the SG's not the club. that's a very sketchy position to be in because the SGs are probably not legal entities. Will the members take responisbility for contractual or other liabilities on an individual basis? I doubt it. so, the club has to retain control and ownership of tickets, and the SG's just get to approve names of purchasers beforehand. for SSH this is a once a year thing, and only for new tickets not renewals as once you're in, you stay in. for single game tickets this is a big admin headache. they'd have to put a cut off in place so many days/weeks before the game, after which the tickets go on public release or something.

[RedRum]

I don't think you would be a member per say. At least not a paid member.
You don't have to be for U-Sector at least - and that would get you in to the SG north end. What you need to be is validated by one SG. And being a regular poster on SG boards is one way to validate.

Doesn't mean sweet fuck all to me.

It's what you contribute:
-90+ chanting with the group.
-Banners/tifos
-Away support

[Cashcleaner]

From an outsiders perspective, its a little annoying that so many RPB members seem to think they are entitled to whatever new seats might be put in.

Its like a young child who wants the shiny new toy all to themselves in spite of the fact that they have already got the exact same thing.

How would this be different than a corporate group getting a special deal on a box? Is anyone really going to complain to Neilson Foods or Seagram's for snatching up a few rows at cheaper prices than the rest of us to give to employees and their family?

Buying power. That's what this is about. If we can guarantee the sale of a certain number of seats in the North End, why would the club not give them to us?

[Hitcho]

I like you. :thumbsup:

ha ha - then change your username to ilikehitcho instead :D:D:D

[flatpicker]

... they'd have to put a cut off in place so many days/weeks before the game, after which the tickets go on public release or soemthing.


I agree that it would take some sorting out... but I have faith.

As for a "cut off" date...
I think I already mentioned that scenerio in one of my posts.

It would be the responsibility of the SG Member to get their tickets early.
Perhaps 2 weeks prior to game day, and then, yes, the rest would go to the gen pop for single seat sales.

[AL-MO]

distribution control, yes. sale/ownership control - seems unlikely to me. approval of existing SSH's for north stand season tickets, and then it's punter dealing with club - that seems viable. reserving the unsold seats for single game purchase by a list of people pre-approved by SG's sounds good in theory, but in reality it's back door SSH tickets and the admin headache for the club would be huge, unless they cede complete control of those tickets to the SGs, and I just cannot see that happening to be honest.

because then what - the ticket purchaser has a contract with the SG's, which means all contractual liability, and potentially civil/criminal depending on the circs, then lies with the SG's not the club. that's a very sketchy position to be in because the SGs are probably not legal entities. Will the members take responisbility for contractual or other liabilities on an individual basis? I doubt it. so, the club has to retain control and ownership of tickets, and the SG's just get to approve names of purchasers beforehand. for SSH this is a once a year thing, and only for new tickets not renewals as once you're in, you stay in. for single game tickets this is a big admin headache. they'd have to put a cut off in place so many days/weeks before the game, after which the tickets go on public release or something.

DC United sells tickets to their members. Chicago has some arrangement too, but I am not sure if it is the same as DC where they sell the tickets to their section.

[Hitcho]

How would this be different than a corporate group getting a special deal on a box? Is anyone really going to complain to Neilson Foods or Seagram's for snatching up a few rows at cheaper prices than the rest of us to give to employees and their family?

Buying power. That's what this is about. If we can guarantee the sale of a certain number of seats in the North End, why would the club not give them to us?

If this means the club selling a block of season tickets to each SG in advance each year, for the SG's to distribute or sell on as they see fit, then not going to work in my book because:

A) whilst they may like having the guaranteed sale of a certain number of tickets each season they don;t need to worry about this with the renewal rates and waiting list they have in place right now; and

B) people are not going to give up their guaranteed season tickets to take a punt on the SGs dishing them out a season or match day ticket if they are smiled upon, because the risk is not having any ticket at all. in that scenario, people will not take the risk and the north stand will be what the south stand is now - a core of noisy fans and the rest filled up with anyone who will buy the tickets so the SGs can avoid making a loss on unsold tickets.

[Hitcho]

DC United sells tickets to their members. Chicago has some arrangement too, but I am not sure if it is the same as DC where they sell the tickets to their section.

not sure what this means? the club sells the tickets? to who - fans or supporter groups?

[H Bomb]

SG's, and then they organise getting the tickets to their members

[AL-MO]

not sure what this means? the club sells the tickets? to who - fans or supporter groups?

Yeah sorry. I was referring to Barra Brava specifically. They sell tickets for their section to members on behalf of the club.

[ilikemusic]

I would contend that there is neccesarily a big difference between the way DC United distributes tickets in their big, 60K stadium and the way Toronto FC sells them in our cramped 19K stadium.

Its pretty easy to give operational control of some segment of the stadium to a supporter's group when you've got 20-40 thousand empty seats to work with. Its a different animal alltogether when you are dealing with a consistently sold-out stadium and waiting lists full of anxious fans.

[H Bomb]

....44000 to our 20 k ...no need to fudge stats when they still work for you :)

[Roogsy]

Forgive me for being a bit naive, but wouldn't movement of seats be the first course of action rather than adding season ticket holders?

For example, let's say some day a north stand is indeed built. Wouldn't the team simply say "before we take on new season ticket holders form our gold lists or whatever, first what we are going to do is ask current members of supporters groups who currently have season tickets elsewhere in the stadium if they would like to move their seats (not add but move) into the new section."

Seems logical to me. It's what they do every year anyways.

That way, somebody in 104 who already has 2 seats and is an RPB or Usector or whatever, gets to move his seats to the shiny new north stand and his 104 seats get left open for other STH to move into or if left unsold, to be sold to the a person on the waiting list. That way, supporters groups aren't getting MORE seats, they are just given preference where to move so that members are all together.

Anyways...we're all getting ahead of ourselves. This is like asking someone what they are going to do if they win the lottery and then fighing about it because you don't like that they are going to blow it on cocaine and hookers. :D

[AL-MO]

I would contend that there is neccesarily a big difference between the way DC United distributes tickets in their big, 60K stadium and the way Toronto FC sells them in our cramped 19K stadium.

Its pretty easy to give operational control of some segment of the stadium to a supporter's group when you've got 20-40 thousand empty seats to work with. Its a different animal alltogether when you are dealing with a consistently sold-out stadium and waiting lists full of anxious fans.

It definitely is different.

I think Flatz was just mentioning it as an example that it is not as crazy as some might think.

[H Bomb]

what i want to know is why everyone wants to move....make the north end the family zone, get the families there and out of the south end....dunno why people want out of the south end...where would your capo stands go, there would be much less room for your banners. why is it that people want to move in general or would people only want to go if it was SG controlled

[Roogsy]

what i want to know is why everyone wants to move....make the north end the family zone, get the families there and out of the south end....dunno why people want out of the south end...where would your capo stands go, there would be much less room for your banners. why is it that people want to move in general or would people only want to go if it was SG controlled

People are tired of scalpers who sell tickets to tourists and non-members who fight the efforts of the supporters groups in their sections. Having a SG controlled section solves both problems.

[H Bomb]

we'll see about that.....especially with the tourists...and why is this a north end thing...i'd rather see people fixing up their home than leaving it derelict and buying a new one....who are y'all...picasso?!?

[flatpicker]

Forgive me for being a bit naive, but wouldn't movement of seats be the first course of action rather than adding season ticket holders?

For example, let's say some day a north stand is indeed built. Wouldn't the team simply say "before we take on new season ticket holders form our gold lists or whatever, first what we are going to do is ask current members of supporters groups who currently have season tickets elsewhere in the stadium if they would like to move their seats (not add but move) into the new section."

Seems logical to me. It's what they do every year anyways.




that is what we are talking about.

we haven't really discussed much about new STH's

though I did mention somewhere that Supporter Group Members should not get early pickings of season tickets.

all season tickets should continue to be distributed through the waiting list.

All we are discussing here is the relocation of supporters, and the possible distribution of single tickets sales to non-STH supporters.

[ilikemusic]

what i want to know is why everyone wants to move....make the north end the family zone, get the families there and out of the south end....dunno why people want out of the south end...where would your capo stands go, there would be much less room for your banners. why is it that people want to move in general or would people only want to go if it was SG controlled

Thats what kind of confused me. Why move when the south end is bigger and already set up for them anyways.

Though, the issue of 're-alignment' if you will, does make sense. The actual 'supporter's group' members definitely dont fill the south end, but they probably could fill a smaller north stand.

[Roogsy]

Considering most of the tourists get their tickets through the scalpers, maybe it won't solve it 100%, but it definitely would solve most of the problem.

[canadian_bhoy]

I am quite happy where I am and really have no motivation to move. At the moment we are in the loudest section in the stadium, always singing and chanting and when the bounce kicks in, the section literally rocks.

I am not a fan at all of having "our own section". BMO is our section - the goal should be to get the whole stadium actively supporting the team. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that 20,000 people will take on some of the more complicated chants, but there is no reason why we can't have 20,000 people doing some of the more simple ones.

Putting the supporters groups in the North stand would just isolate them and make them more of a cheerleader section than anything else. The choir at the front of the church with everyone else just sitting and watching.

I don't understand why people constantly want to separate the SG's from the rest of the fan base. I don't get the whole "I'd rather have 100 hardcores than 20,000 'fans'". It just makes people sound like it's more about the support than the football.

Also - the whole notion of putting control of the tickets in the hands of the supporters is a recipe for disaster.

[H Bomb]

^^ The last word. I rarely think people put things better than I can but there's a strong case of it there. Well said!!

[flatpicker]

I am not a fan at all of having "our own section". BMO is our section - the goal should be to get the whole stadium actively supporting the team. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that 20,000 people will take on some of the more complicated chants, but there is no reason why we can't have 20,000 people doing some of the more simple ones.



I'm not sure that having "our own section" would eliminate the prospect of 20,000 people doing the simple chants.

But it would strengthen the sound of our more complicated songs.

Having true "supporter sections" is common throughout the football world.
And they seem to work well with it.

[Yohan]

seems at BMO Field, vast majority of the crowd wants to sit to watch the game, while a minority, mostly SGs, want to stand and do their own thing

giving SGs their own sections would eliminate most of the complaints and frictions between SGs and non SGs

[H Bomb]

seems at BMO Field, vast majority of the crowd wants to sit to watch the game, while a minority, mostly SGs, want to stand and do their own thing

giving SGs their own sections would eliminate most of the complaints and frictions between SGs and non SGs

this is something perpertuated here that isnt true. SG's make up much much less than half of the standing crowd at BMO

[Yohan]

this is something perpertuated here that isnt true. SG's make up much much less than half of the standing crowd at BMO
true

question better asked is, how many people are standing on the standing section, because they are forced to do so

[H Bomb]

a lot less than folks round here think. Trust me, im in 115, no one is standing because they feel forced to by sg's, or anyone for that matter....All SG's give themselves too much credit for this type of thing....you guys completely dominate banners...that's it really

[Hitcho]

I am quite happy where I am and really have no motivation to move. At the moment we are in the loudest section in the stadium, always singing and chanting and when the bounce kicks in, the section literally rocks.

I am not a fan at all of having "our own section". BMO is our section - the goal should be to get the whole stadium actively supporting the team. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that 20,000 people will take on some of the more complicated chants, but there is no reason why we can't have 20,000 people doing some of the more simple ones.

Putting the supporters groups in the North stand would just isolate them and make them more of a cheerleader section than anything else. The choir at the front of the church with everyone else just sitting and watching.

I don't understand why people constantly want to separate the SG's from the rest of the fan base. I don't get the whole "I'd rather have 100 hardcores than 20,000 'fans'". It just makes people sound like it's more about the support than the football.

Also - the whole notion of putting control of the tickets in the hands of the supporters is a recipe for disaster.

Fair points Mike. I think that a cheerleading section qould be a good thing for TFC and BMO Field though. right now we have an incoherent mess in terms of the stadium as a whole, with even the SG sections not able to follow each other. Getting them all in line would at least give the stadium something to follow. Without that, there are swathes of people who will never even be able to follow the simplest chant as there's nothing to follow and they don't know the boards are here to learn from. Also, that problem as it is now is unlikely to go away voer time as the renewal rates mean there is effectively no movement in the stadium. We're clogged up and stuck where we are right now. So a new stand, only for SG type people, would allow a unification of the noisy fans and give the rest of BMO Field something to emulate.

Anyone who doesn't want to join the relocation program wouldn't have to and could stay where they are. I suspect quite a lot of SG type people would take this approach. And that's good, because those people in their existing sections, coupled with the new "cheerleader" section, would give the whole stadium a chance of getting going in some unified support. Much better than what we have now. Besides, the new section would still get rocking, it would just rock louder and harder! :D:D

The last bit I agree with. I understand that other cubs might do it, but I really think the only viable approach for us would be to relocate existing SSH's into the new north stand, based on approval from an SG. How you sort out who gets what seat is a mess. I guess each SG gets it's own section in the new stand and it's then down to them to decide who gets what seat. Any leftovers get put up for general release among the SG's. Not sure, bit messy really. There's also a good case to be made for INTEGRATING the various SG's. This would wipe out at a stroke the friction etween SG's that WE DO NEED OR WANT in any new SG stand.

Lastly, Yohan makes a good point - this plan could potentially eliminate a lot of friction betweent hose who want to stand and those who do not, especially in non-supporter sections. the mass move of standing people wuold free up a lot of space for relocation in the clsoe season.

[H Bomb]

Fair points Mike. I think that a cheerleading section qould be a good thing for TFC and BMO Field though. right now we have an incoherent mess in terms of the stadium as a whole, with even the SG sections not able to follow each other. Getting them all in line would at least give the stadium something to follow. Without that, there are swathes of people who will never even be able to follow the simplest chant as there's nothing to follow and they don't know the boards are here to learn from. Also, that problem as it is now is unlikely to go away voer time as the renewal rates mean there is effectively no movement in the stadium. We're clogged up and stuck where we are right now. So a new stand, only for SG type people, would allow a unification of the noisy fans and give the rest of BMO Field something to emulate.

Jesus no! A cheerleading section is the worst possible idea...it is literally as bad as an organ at leafs games, a jumbo-tron at jays games, and cheerleaders at american football games. It's really close to that as it already is and I would feel so sick to my stomach if it went even further into a noisemaking endevour.

[redcard]

what i want to know is why everyone wants to move....make the north end the family zone, get the families there and out of the south end....dunno why people want out of the south end...where would your capo stands go, there would be much less room for your banners. why is it that people want to move in general or would people only want to go if it was SG controlled

this is what i have been saying all along...

the north stand can be designated a family zone and during relocation families are encouraged to relocate to the north...this means you cant pick up additional tickets just move.

[redcard]

Forgive me for being a bit naive, but wouldn't movement of seats be the first course of action rather than adding season ticket holders?

For example, let's say some day a north stand is indeed built. Wouldn't the team simply say "before we take on new season ticket holders form our gold lists or whatever, first what we are going to do is ask current members of supporters groups who currently have season tickets elsewhere in the stadium if they would like to move their seats (not add but move) into the new section."

Seems logical to me. It's what they do every year anyways.

That way, somebody in 104 who already has 2 seats and is an RPB or Usector or whatever, gets to move his seats to the shiny new north stand and his 104 seats get left open for other STH to move into or if left unsold, to be sold to the a person on the waiting list. That way, supporters groups aren't getting MORE seats, they are just given preference where to move so that members are all together.

Anyways...we're all getting ahead of ourselves. This is like asking someone what they are going to do if they win the lottery and then fighing about it because you don't like that they are going to blow it on cocaine and hookers. :D

i think the issue here would be given SGs preferential treatment...keep in mind a lot of people are higher on the STH list (loyalty list) the most SGs....

but as i said earlier they necessarily are not SGs...

[Pookie]

I'm not sure why you'd want a "family zone" smack dab in the middle of the NEE and the area designated for Visitor's Support (top of 104)

Right now, it's not a major issue but I'm sure that the NEE would like to create the atmopshere that portions of the south end experience.

NEE should be looking at the this new section as "expansion" zone

[flatpicker]

Jesus no! A cheerleading section is the worst possible idea...it is literally as bad as an organ at leafs games, a jumbo-tron at jays games, and cheerleaders at american football games. It's really close to that as it already is and I would feel so sick to my stomach if it went even further into a noisemaking endevour.

I'm starting to think you are letting your imagination run away with you.

The whole concept "cheerleaders" was brought up by CB.

It was an inaccurate label to give the North End, and was a sly attempt at trivializing the efforts of those who would move there.

What on earth would make the North End a "cheerleader" section???

Because it has a higher concentration of supporters who sing for TFC?

In that case, most football fans throughout the world must consider supporter sections to be "cheerleaders"

that's just nonsense.



this is what i have been saying all along...

the north stand can be designated a family zone and during relocation families are encouraged to relocate to the north...this means you cant pick up additional tickets just move.


I admit, I would take that scenario as a decent Plan B.

If the FO manages to contact all STH's in current supporter sections,
and asks if they would like to relocate to the North End,
then that would help things.

It wouldn't help the issue with scalpers though.

And if they did that, they better give STH supporter group members first crack at relocating to those seats that have just been vacated.


That said... relocating supporters to the new North would be a far more effective solution that solves many current problems.

[H Bomb]

I'm starting to think you are letting your imagination run away with you.

The whole concept "cheerleaders" was brought up by CB.

It was an inaccurate label to give the North End, and was a sly attempt at trivializing the efforts of those who would move there.

What on earth would make the North End a "cheerleader" section???

Because it has a higher concentration of supporters who sing for TFC?

In that case, most football fans throughout the world must consider supporter sections to be "cheerleaders"

that's just nonsense.





Sorry, there is personal history here that you naturally wouldnt know about as i cant imagine you follow around my every post. But I have worried about 112/111/113 being cheerleading section for a long time. And when i say cheerleading, i mean just rolling through songs in more of an attempt to make noise than cheer any specific action on the field

[flatpicker]

Sorry, there is personal history here that you naturally wouldnt know about as i cant imagine you follow around my every post. But I have worried about 112/111/113 being cheerleading section for a long time. And when i say cheerleading, i mean just rolling through songs in more of an attempt to make noise than cheer any specific action on the field


well, in that case, I actually think a North End would help solve that problem.

A big roadblock in our songs is that there are a lot of non-supporter group STH's amoungst 111/112/113.

Many of them don't really grasp the concept of singing songs for a reason, and at appropriate times
(not to mention singing them correctly)

If the majority of SG members were concentrated in the North then I think you would see the quality of support rise significantly.

[Belfast_Boy]

I just want more seats. I can't get tickets and it's pissing me off.

[flatpicker]

I just want more seats. I can't get tickets and it's pissing me off.

if you can't get tickets then you aren't trying hard enough!

there are lot's out there for every game.

[H Bomb]

well, in that case, I actually think a North End would help solve that problem.

A big roadblock in our songs is that there are a lot of non-supporter group STH's amoungst 111/112/113.

Many of them don't really grasp the concept of singing songs for a reason, and at appropriate times
(not to mention singing them correctly)

If the majority of SG members were concentrated in the North then I think you would see the quality of support rise significantly.

I think we'll have to disagree here. I dont think the non SG's have much or anything to do with why i think of it as a cheerleading section. It's a concious effort from good people, who disagree with many things that I think.

[Hitcho]

Jesus no! A cheerleading section is the worst possible idea...it is literally as bad as an organ at leafs games, a jumbo-tron at jays games, and cheerleaders at american football games. It's really close to that as it already is and I would feel so sick to my stomach if it went even further into a noisemaking endevour.

i'm not sure I can follow you on this. the idea as i understand it is to relocate as many noisy fans as possible into one place to remove the problem of spread out and isolated SG type people around BMO Field. if you think that's a cheerleading (in a negative way) squad then you and I have very different ideas about what cheerleaders are. and hiow can you possibly compare it to a jumbotron?! what's the kop at anfield? or the stretford road end at old trafford? I just don;t get the analysis. and what's your suggested alternative? spread out all noisy fans as much as possible to avoid all organised singing and chanting, just have everyone individually scream and hope for an unintelligible cacophony of noise instead? i'm joking to a certain extent, but i just don;t see the reasoning behind this!

wow - so you thinkt he flag waving, banners and chanting that coems out of 112 in reaction to what's going on in the game is like the big overhead piece of crap that flashes up "go leafs go"? i'm staggered. :facepalm:

[Hitcho]

I think we'll have to disagree here. I dont think the non SG's have much or anything to do with why i think of it as a cheerleading section. It's a concious effort from good people, who disagree with many things that I think.

ok, i sort of see your argument now having read your later post. but even so, if the 112/113 support is a "cheerleading section", then what's your idea of "good" support instead? and can you give an example of it and explain how it;s different to what we get in the SE corner? I don;t actually sit there, but I can see it pretty clearly from my seats, and hear it much of the time. so i'm curious to know how you;d answer the questions above...

[H Bomb]

no dude, read up first (posts on this page)....i'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one as I dont know you as a shit disturber....but have a think first...

The supporters end at any English park, and lots of Europe (the KOP is simply bigger than most) is an organic support that hs nothing to do with organising when and where people sit. It's real support, not orchastrated support.

[Hitcho]

I just want more seats. I can't get tickets and it's pissing me off.

dude check the ticket trader forum on a game by game absis. you'll get tickets at face value for pretty much any game you want, certainly regular season mls games. and you can usually choose your section type too. not a guarantee, but a pretty good substitute.

also get on the FO quicker for late release tickets. they do that a lot.

[H Bomb]

ok, i sort of see your argument now having read your later post. but even so, if the 112/113 support is a "cheerleading section", then what's your idea of "good" support instead? and can you give an example of it and explain how it;s different to what we get in the SE corner? I don;t actually sit there, but I can see it pretty clearly from my seats, and hear it much of the time. so i'm curious to know how you;d answer the questions above...

simple answer, Organic. No Capo telling people what to do and when. No organized times to call the NE on cell phone to do a massive. That puts more emphasis on the support itself, and ignores the reason for the support, football. Im a football guy, and only a football guy, the rest is just a persons choice on how they spend their time.

I've expressed these feelings a lot over 3 years here and its obvious that the majority of RPB's disagree with me, and they are welcome to. I've seperated myself from it and dont expect people to change...but i'll always say my piece

[Belfast_Boy]

if you can't get tickets then you aren't trying hard enough!

there are lot's out there for every game.

it's always a scramble, the RPB ticket trader has helped. I'm not about to be gouged by scalpers. I can't afford Ticket exchanges US $250 to $360 to take my son to a game.
if you have a suggestion I'm willing to listen.

[Hitcho]

no dude, read up first (posts on this page)....i'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one as I dont know you as a shit disturber....but have a think first...

The supporters end at any English park, and lots of Europe (the KOP is simply bigger than most) is an organic support that hs nothing to do with organising when and where people sit. It's real support, not orchastrated support.

that's a flase distinction. it's not fair to say that the supporter end at any english ground just happened to be there organically. it came around ebcause like minded people chose to get together and locate there and it;s become custom now and is fully integrated into the ground. TFC would get that eventually if the club had been around for 100 years or so (although you don;t get the scalper problems in england that you do here in my experience which is slowing that natural integration down).

so to say it's organic there but not here is just a question of time, unless i am misunderstanding you.

i agree that a new north stand plan would be fast tracking the plan, so to that extent we'd be by-passing the organic growth and natural evolution of the supporter section over time. but ultimately the same people would be in there, whether through the slow process of annual relocation of an expedited "let's get these gyus together in one swoop" process of a new stand with first refusal for SG type people. bottom line is they same people are going to ebnd up there one way or another. so without being funny about it, i don;t really see how it;s different.

my understanding of this thread and the ideas i it is not to have sp[ecific people in specific seats doing specific chants at specific times of the game. it;s to get all the SG type people into one stand and let them get on with making noise.

[H Bomb]

that's a flase distinction. it's not fair to say that the supporter end at any english ground just happened to be there organically. it came around ebcause like minded people chose to get together and locate there and it;s become custom now and is fully integrated into the ground. TFC would get that eventually if the club had been around for 100 years or so (although you don;t get the scalper problems in england that you do here in my experience which is slowing that natural integration down).

so to say it's organic there but not here is just a question of time, unless i am misunderstanding you.

i agree that a new north stand plan would be fast tracking the plan, so to that extent we'd be by-passing the organic growth and natural evolution of the supporter section over time. but ultimately the same people would be in there, whether through the slow process of annual relocation of an expedited "let's get these gyus together in one swoop" process of a new stand with first refusal for SG type people. bottom line is they same people are going to ebnd up there one way or another. so without being funny about it, i don;t really see how it;s different.

my understanding of this thread and the ideas i it is not to have sp[ecific people in specific seats doing specific chants at specific times of the game. it;s to get all the SG type people into one stand and let them get on with making noise.


You're 100% right about it taking time...so lets give it time....real time, 15 years of time. People want to sound like Europe, well why? Lets sound like us. And lets create a real organic support for the team. The main problem i have is there is no thought involved for the individuals. a select group of people decide what everyone sings and when they sing it. I have a problem with this. We need legit patience to create legit long term football knowledgable support. And we arent patient enough

[eustacchio]

it's always a scramble, the RPB ticket trader has helped. I'm not about to be gouged by scalpers. I can't afford Ticket exchanges US $250 to $360 to take my son to a game.
if you have a suggestion I'm willing to listen.

I have never missed a game because I didn't have a ticket.

The Ticket Trader is the best forum this board offers.

In fact, I've even received tickets for free or for the promise of future beers (I haven't forgotten about the beers that I owe you, Yeoman).

[Hitcho]

simple answer, Organic. No Capo telling people what to do and when. No organized times to call the NE on cell phone to do a massive. That puts more emphasis on the support itself, and ignores the reason for the support, football. Im a football guy, and only a football guy, the rest is just a persons choice on how they spend their time.

I've expressed these feelings a lot over 3 years here and its obvious that the majority of RPB's disagree with me, and they are welcome to. I've seperated myself from it and dont expect people to change...but i'll always say my piece

ok now i think i understand your point, and i can agree with the principle having grown up in english football culture, so i know where you;re coming from.

however, you have to allow for the fact that 99% of the people at BMO Field each week have never regularly attended english grounds, so they have no experience of that. even in the SG sections i bet over 90% have never done so. we're in season three. where do you think we'd be without a capo and some kind of organisation in terms of chanting and supporting? I agree with the purist statement you uphold, and over time ideally we'll get to the point where we don;t need capos etc. but in the meantime we're left with a bunch of passionate people who are trying to find a successful outlet for their vocal support.

you have to remember this is north america. it's unfair to hold them to the supporter ideals of places like england when the people haven;t grown up in it. the guys in 112/113 haven;t even grown up with north american support. they've had two and a bit seasons of trying to get as organised as possible as quickly as possible.

so yeah, kind of agree with you but think a little slack needs to be cut while the TFC support is still very much in the early teething stages! :D

[H Bomb]

All well thought out points. Me, i'm the kind of guy who would rather suffer a little now to be better later. I think we'd be just fine without a Capo and would do a better job of creating football intelligence over time. Right now we are creating a world class group of emotional jumpers!:canada:

....At least I dont have to fight against flares anymore. :D

[Hitcho]

You're 100% right about it taking time...so lets give it time....real time, 15 years of time. People want to sound like Europe, well why? Lets sound like us. And lets create a real organic support for the team. The main problem i have is there is no thought involved for the individuals. a select group of people decide what everyone sings and when they sing it. I have a problem with this. We need legit patience to create legit long term football knowledgable support. And we arent patient enough

well there's more than one way to climb a hill dude. it doesn;t have to be the slow, patient widning route. if the organised support we have no keeps up then eventually people will absorb the chnats and songs and get a feel for when to use them much more quickly than they would through the slow process of time alone.

also, you have to remember that we don;t actually have a genuine "supporters end" here. it's designated as such but the way the club was suddenly spewed forth into the GTA world and it;s soccer starved population, coupled with the golden balls effect and scalpers giong nuts when he signed, has resulted in a mish mash of people all over the place.

i think if you got a dedicated north end, then the kind of organic growth you're talking about would come on far more quickly. because you get enoguh of those type of people in one big section and soon enough they won;t give a shit about the capo ir the guy at the front trying to lead chants off. people at the back will have their own ideas, and their efforts will take off regardless of the capo.

besides whcih I have been to plenty of english grounds and they all have a few guys trying to lead chants off, it's never, efer 1005 organic as in your definition of it. the difference is they have more "organic" chants which start up and spread rom more areas of the ground. in time we'll get that too, but you have to educate people in the meantime so they have something to work with.

[H Bomb]

Educate yes...I see the current system as a brainwash....as memorization not education. I know people have to start chants in order for chants to start. And its not as black & white as either of us have said in the last couple pages...in the end i hold a very high standard...and i cant see that changing

[Hitcho]

All well thought out points. Me, i'm the kind of guy who would rather suffer a little now to be better later. I think we'd be just fine without a Capo and would do a better job of creating football intelligence over time. Right now we are creating a world class group of emotional jumpers!:canada:

....At least I dont have to fight against flares anymore. :D

that may be so, but as i said above, in time those eotional jumpers will want to start their own thign off during a game. they won;t want to stay robots forever. and that's even more the case if you have a whole stand of them all in one place, instead of a group of rows all in one pocket at the front of 112/113. the masses will stop listening to the conducters. right now, it;s hard for them to do that ebcause there's not enough aorund them to allow them to start chants independently and have them take fof. it;s the capo way or the highway in some respects. a new north stand might remove that.

[flatpicker]

ok now i think i understand your point, and i can agree with the principle having grown up in english football culture, so i know where you;re coming from.

however, you have to allow for the fact that 99% of the people at BMO Field each week have never regularly attended english grounds, so they have no experience of that. even in the SG sections i bet over 90% have never done so. we're in season three. where do you think we'd be without a capo and some kind of organisation in terms of chanting and supporting? I agree with the purist statement you uphold, and over time ideally we'll get to the point where we don;t need capos etc. but in the meantime we're left with a bunch of passionate people who are trying to find a successful outlet for their vocal support.

you have to remember this is north america. it's unfair to hold them to the supporter ideals of places like england when the people haven;t grown up in it. the guys in 112/113 haven;t even grown up with north american support. they've had two and a bit seasons of trying to get as organised as possible as quickly as possible.

so yeah, kind of agree with you but think a little slack needs to be cut while the TFC support is still very much in the early teething stages! :D


I agree with this...

While it would be great to have a more organic response from fans, I don't think it will happen without some encouragement right now.

like you said, people in North America are not accustomed to the Euro style of support.

Torontonians have been raised on nothing more than "Go Leafs Go"

If we just let it be and hoped for the best, I think you would find that 10 years from now,
we would still be doing no better than "come on you reds" and "TFC clap clap clap".

Think of MLS supporters like a bobsled team.
We need a bit of a push first and then rest is cool runnings! :)

[Hitcho]

H Bomb - well i think we can agree that staying with the current sg distribution will limit and stifle any growth then, no? because the group is too small to ignore the capo type thing going on and too isolated to do anything different and have it take off and too quiet in terms of the voerall stadium to be able to spread the chants through natural absorbtion as not enough people can hear them clearly enough to learn through osmosis.

now with a bigger, more vocal, more idnependent north stand, a lot of those road blocks might disappear.

i share your vision of what i'd love bmo field to be like, but i think there's more than one way of getting there...

[Hitcho]

Think of MLS supporter like bobsled.
We need a bit of a push first and then rest is cool runnings! :)


Ha ha ha!! Superb analogy Flats, love it! :D

[H Bomb]

i share your vision of what i'd love bmo field to be like, but i think there's more than one way of getting there...

To this i'd say Nope, there is only my way, you rat bastards:D:canada:

No, i think it's great that there is such a varied support structure over here, and once different cultures really find better ways to understand each other we will all be the better for it. And i know that everyone here is trying to create a better situation for everyone and not just themselves. I'm lucky in my bit of 115 to have a crowd I can appreciate and enjoy, and as long as you have that wherever you are then count your blessings

[redcard]

I'm not sure why you'd want a "family zone" smack dab in the middle of the NEE and the area designated for Visitor's Support (top of 104)

Right now, it's not a major issue but I'm sure that the NEE would like to create the atmopshere that portions of the south end experience.

NEE should be looking at the this new section as "expansion" zone


simple reason the north end will probably be cheap seats...and for families have a cost effective game experience will be a good option...think of it as reaching out to the next gen of fans/supporters...

other options are flex packs/partial tickets...exposing more fans that were late on the band wagon to experience TFC...

[Cashcleaner]

Forgive me for being a bit naive, but wouldn't movement of seats be the first course of action rather than adding season ticket holders?

For example, let's say some day a north stand is indeed built. Wouldn't the team simply say "before we take on new season ticket holders form our gold lists or whatever, first what we are going to do is ask current members of supporters groups who currently have season tickets elsewhere in the stadium if they would like to move their seats (not add but move) into the new section."


That's what I think will happen. Well, more exactly, I would imagine they will allow for movement of seats and the sale of an additional seat or two at the same time based on order of original sale and renewal.

The scenario I'm hoping for is for the option to move from 111 to North Stand and a chance to pick up an additional seat for my buddy Edmundo.

Hopefully that's how it would turn out.

[billyfly]

About 1,000 seats have been added in the north end that become permanent next season”

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2009/08/06/10376046-sun.html

[flatpicker]

About 1,000 seats have been added in the north end that become permanent next season”

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2009/08/06/10376046-sun.html


permanent? 1000 seats?

that just doesn't seem like a good size at all!

it's too small and too isolated with all that space on either side of it.

[billyfly]

We'll let Flush handle the details since he's moving there. :D

[flatpicker]

bump... because I'm bored.

[boban]

Rooney no there isn't. Different questions being asked.
Should not have been closed.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=16448

[Primavera]

...
And you're damn right that if we got access to a new north stand, our members would be getting first dibs on those seats.

And that's just one reason why I think it would be a horror-show to allow individual SGs controlling access to season tickets.

The sense of entitlement amongst a few is HUGE and I - and I would imagine many others - would have serious concens about the transparency of seat allotment if it were left up to individual SGs to administer.

To my mind it would be better to allow any current ST holder first opportunity to move into the hypothetical Supporters' North End provided that they understand and accept that flags will be waved, songs wil be sung, people will be standing... Isn't that how the two new Supporter Sections were sold for this current season?

(and yeah, I already have STs so I'm not trying to protect my own arse.)

[Roogsy]

So you're saying if this thing, or some other type of expansion at the stadium, happens that there should be no effort to unite members of supporters groups together instead of having them scattered throughout the stadium?

If all it does is move current season ticket holders around, what exactly is the problem?

[Primavera]

...
If all it does is move current season ticket holders around, what exactly is the problem?

It's how that movement might be administered where the problems might lie. Paid membership in a SG should not be a determining factor in having access to a Supporters' End seat.
Is the person already a STH?
Would they happily accept the game day conditions of sitting in a Supporters' End seat?
After current STH are given the option to move then open it up to the waiting lists, again making clear the game day conditions.

There are many reasons why a passioned TFC supporter might choose not to become a paying member of a SG, none of them a reflection of how much they love the team, the sport, and being part of a vibrant supporters' section at a match.

[redcard]

we have to understand it that this is a difficult situation for the FO if they were to make the north a SG controlled stand...simply because there are non SGs that like to support the team without having to be tied to a SG group...

and they (current STHs) would be up in arms if they are not given equal opportunity to these seats based on their position in the STH list...

also would the FO allow for more Supporters sections in the stadium...and if these become 'cheap' seats there are many folks in the prawn sections that would want dibs on these seats during relocation...

its difficult cause the stadium is sold out and giving first priorty for seats is difficult now than when the stadium was first built...as i recall in the beginning stages there was a opportunity to become part of the SG experience in 112/113...

too many questions need to be answered by the FO about these stands first...

[905shmick]

There are many reasons why a passioned TFC supporter might choose not to become a paying member of a SG, none of them a reflection of how much they love the team, the sport, and being part of a vibrant supporters' section at a match.

There are many SG's to choose from. I think only one of them requires you to pay for membership.

[Tonyd]

I just want season tickets anywhere at the moment ...getting tired ordering tickets through ticket master. Eventually my luck in scoring tickets will run out!

[Shakes McQueen]

I will be pissed if the new stand gets bought up by people who already have season seats, and who just want more. Meanwhile, people like me continue to be forced to try and scrounge up tickets from friends, on forums, etc.

- Scott

[Oblio2]

If I get the chance to get more tickets, I will give up my pair in 127 for the North stand.
As far as I know, the policy changed to 4 tickets per account.
I bought 2 in 110, and for this season, 2 in 127.
ID love to go to the North stand though!

[Roogsy]

It's how that movement might be administered where the problems might lie. Paid membership in a SG should not be a determining factor in having access to a Supporters' End seat.
Is the person already a STH?
Would they happily accept the game day conditions of sitting in a Supporters' End seat?
After current STH are given the option to move then open it up to the waiting lists, again making clear the game day conditions.

There are many reasons why a passioned TFC supporter might choose not to become a paying member of a SG, none of them a reflection of how much they love the team, the sport, and being part of a vibrant supporters' section at a match.

And that's all fine.

What I want to know is if all things remain the same, what exactly is the problem with moving people closer who want to be together if your seats are unaffected?

I am not talking about opening up tickets to people on waiting lists and giving priority to SG members. I don't agree with that. I am talking about creating a section where current STH who are members of an SG can sit together. Is there a problem with that?

[FluSH]

It's how that movement might be administered where the problems might lie. Paid membership in a SG should not be a determining factor in having access to a Supporters' End seat.
Is the person already a STH?
Would they happily accept the game day conditions of sitting in a Supporters' End seat?
After current STH are given the option to move then open it up to the waiting lists, again making clear the game day conditions.

There are many reasons why a passioned TFC supporter might choose not to become a paying member of a SG, none of them a reflection of how much they love the team, the sport, and being part of a vibrant supporters' section at a match.


How about... we RPB want to sit together. A passioned TFC supporter can go sit elsewhere... I would like our RPB and those who are friends of RPB to be able to sit together under a section we have control over... (i.e. no scalpers, no bad attidute fans shouting at TFC players for mistakes, no flying flares aimed at me from passionate wannabes...) You see where I'm going with this?

[Roogsy]

I will be pissed if the new stand gets bought up by people who already have season seats, and who just want more. Meanwhile, people like me continue to be forced to try and scrounge up tickets from friends, on forums, etc.

- Scott

I don't think that will ever happen Scott. The FO doesn't care for SGs that much and wouldn't want the PR nightmare that would accompany such a move. SGs will never get "first dibs" on seats other than the option of moving existing holders to a designated supporter section should they ever open up that option. And even that isn't a sure thing...they may simply opt to forego that altogether although that would be an entirely different headache for the FO.

[Dust2]

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=16479

View Poll Results: Should the front office set aside a Supporters Section solely for supporters?
Yes http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/polls/bar2-r.gifhttp://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/clear.gif 41 (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=522) 91.11%
No http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/polls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/polls/bar3-r.gifhttp://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/clear.gif 4 (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=522) 8.89%

Is that thread identical to this one? I don't know why the Moderators are so happy to close it.

[tim90]

yes i will like ticket north stand

[Parkdale]

yes i will like ticket north stand



yes, I will like ticket north stand too

[flatpicker]

I want sit Tim90 beside

[greatwhitenorf]

I and I partners will be in for north stand tickets. The dozen or so we now administer are always in demand and well used. We try to ensure that friends, neighbours and soccer-community associates who live right here in the heart of downtown Toronto get access to the seats. They're always the most likely to attend on a regular basis and help grow support. We love hearing kids at practices telling us what a great time they had.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

I want sit Tim90 beside

i want beside sit tim90 with too flatpicker:drinking:

[Captain Croatia]

I just want ST's that are priced like Yellow's!