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Nuvinho
07-29-2009, 07:37 AM
tweet:


KristianJack (http://twitter.com/KristianJack)Mark my words. Toronto FC will announce a 2yr contract extension for Mo Johnston but they just don't know when. Timing is everything u know.3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/KristianJack/status/2908676828) from web

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 07:42 AM
somebody shoot me........:picard:

felipe
07-29-2009, 08:07 AM
If you don't have anyone better available or interested - why not?

I dislike Mo too, but to be fair, he hasn't done that bad of a job assembling a team from scratch in three years.

And he seems to understand and accept the ways of the MLS which is a huge plus.

Jay P
07-29-2009, 08:08 AM
it could be worse, we could hire alexi lalas.

canadian_bhoy
07-29-2009, 08:16 AM
As a lifelong Celtic supporter and person who by all accounts should not like Mo Johnston, I think it would be a mistake for the club to let him go.

I challenge anyone to come up with a candidate that understands the MLS structures as well as Mo does, while having decent contacts in the UK and Europe.

Despite what people may think, bringing someone to TFC isn't as easy as it looks. Foreigners want to play in America, not Canada, Americans don't want to leave home unless it's for Europe. We play on TURF. There are so many reasons for pro's to not come to Toronto, yet Mo has managed to put together a very respectable team...and moving forward, we look to be getting even stronger.

And most importantly, Mo has done what he said he was going to do "I want to get all the top Canadian players on Toronto FC". He's got Gerba, Serioux and most importantly DeRo. He was in touching distance for arguably Canada's best player (JDG).

Get'r done ML$E. We want MOre.

flatpicker
07-29-2009, 08:21 AM
^ I agree... Mo still has my support...

Jack
07-29-2009, 08:23 AM
As a lifelong Celtic supporter and person who by all accounts should not like Mo Johnston, I think it would be a mistake for the club to let him go.

I challenge anyone to come up with a candidate that understands the MLS structures as well as Mo does, while having decent contacts in the UK and Europe.

Despite what people may think, bringing someone to TFC isn't as easy as it looks. Foreigners want to play in America, not Canada, Americans don't want to leave home unless it's for Europe. We play on TURF. There are so many reasons for pro's to not come to Toronto, yet Mo has managed to put together a very respectable team...and moving forward, we look to be getting even stronger.

And most importantly, Mo has done what he said he was going to do "I want to get all the top Canadian players on Toronto FC". He's got Gerba, Serioux and most importantly DeRo. He was in touching distance for arguably Canada's best player (JDG).

Get'r done ML$E. We want MOre.
I tend to agree on all counts.

Mo may have his flaws, but the team that is out there right now is not a bad team. There are some holes in the roster (as there are on most MLS teams) and we would probably take a mulligan or two on some of the deals, but generally speaking, things are on the right track. He knows the league rules and how to take advantage of them. He used allocation money to put together a decent team the year before a probable bump in salary cap. I know there are a lot of people who don't like the guy, but looking at what's out there on the field, things aren't too bad.

I do think that the coaching needs a bit of a massage, either from CC growing into the role more or bringing in an experienced MLS guy.

Bluenose13
07-29-2009, 08:23 AM
As a lifelong Celtic supporter and person who by all accounts should not like Mo Johnston, I think it would be a mistake for the club to let him go.

I challenge anyone to come up with a candidate that understands the MLS structures as well as Mo does, while having decent contacts in the UK and Europe.

Despite what people may think, bringing someone to TFC isn't as easy as it looks. Foreigners want to play in America, not Canada, Americans don't want to leave home unless it's for Europe. We play on TURF. There are so many reasons for pro's to not come to Toronto, yet Mo has managed to put together a very respectable team...and moving forward, we look to be getting even stronger.

And most importantly, Mo has done what he said he was going to do "I want to get all the top Canadian players on Toronto FC". He's got Gerba, Serioux and most importantly DeRo. He was in touching distance for arguably Canada's best player (JDG).

Get'r done ML$E. We want MOre.Well said CB :thumbsup:

KrazyKanadian
07-29-2009, 08:25 AM
Ugh. Two more years of Trader Mo?..

Limani_Ole
07-29-2009, 08:29 AM
Hes been coming around.. seems to be getting better every year..

and attempted to get JDG with a competitive contract.. that score high in my books

fetajr
07-29-2009, 08:51 AM
Nooooooooooo More MO!!!

Steve
07-29-2009, 08:58 AM
Mo might not have been much of a coach, but I'll take him as a MLS manager. He knows the rules of MLS inside and out, does well in the draft, and knows when to strike to get the best deal possible for TFC. The only thing I think we can complain about is his limited contacts (in specific countries) but that is true of any manager. I'd like to keep Mo, and possibly add a good scouting staff around him.

trane
07-29-2009, 09:01 AM
I tend to agree on all counts.

Mo may have his flaws, but the team that is out there right now is not a bad team. There are some holes in the roster (as there are on most MLS teams) and we would probably take a mulligan or two on some of the deals, but generally speaking, things are on the right track. He knows the league rules and how to take advantage of them. He used allocation money to put together a decent team the year before a probably bump in salary cap. I know there are a lot of people who don't like the guy, but looking at what's out there on the field, things aren't too bad.

I do think that the coaching needs a bit of a massage, either from CC growing into the role more or bringing in an experienced MLS guy.



At this point even I have to agree. If the team keeps on the present place he should be kept. I would just say not yet, waite untill the end of the season. I think that CC will grow, he has shown an ability to adapt and learn when needed. Those are good signs. If not, and that is were I disagree, I hope they bring a non-MLS guy but a guy who can teach fundametaly sound football ( defense perhaps-how to hold a lead for example). But I liked CC from the begining, and the victory in Montreal sealed the deal for me.

prizby
07-29-2009, 09:02 AM
There are some holes in the roster (as there are on most MLS teams) and we would probably take a mulligan or two on some of the deals, but generally speaking, things are on the right track. He knows the league rules and how to take advantage of them. .

love the golf analogy

Parkdale
07-29-2009, 09:06 AM
I'd like to keep Mo, and possibly add a good scouting staff around him.


and not just paid vacations to brazil.

I think Mo is a crucial part of the TFC operation, but I'd like to see him
kept as far away from the actual game as possible. Mo should just
'collect' the pieces of the puzzle and leave Cummins to put them together.

Steve
07-29-2009, 09:08 AM
At this point even I have to agree. If the team keeps on the present place he should be kept. I would just say not yet, waite untill the end of the season. I think that CC will grow, he has shown an ability to adapt and learn when needed. Those are good signs. If not, and that is were I disagree, I hope they bring a non-MLS guy but a guy who can teach fundametaly sound football ( defense perhaps-how to hold a lead for example). But I liked CC from the begining, and the victory in Montreal sealed the deal for me.

The problem is, non MLS guys have tended to not do terribly well in MLS. Now, maybe that can be mitigated on our team by having an MLS rules guru (Mo) upstairs guiding the non MLS coach, but there are still a lot of questions. You can't get a guy who thinks he's from a league better than MLS and will come to teach us north 'mericans how to play football, he would just get frustrated when he asked for a new centre back and Mo told him you couldn't fit one under the cap without losing your forward, or he asked for you to pursue a specific player, and Mo told him that player had a discovery claim on him by Colorado, so we would have to trade players/money to Colorado to get his rights.

Don Julio
07-29-2009, 09:09 AM
Why not wait until next year?

TorontoBlades
07-29-2009, 09:32 AM
As a lifelong Celtic supporter and person who by all accounts should not like Mo Johnston, I think it would be a mistake for the club to let him go.

I challenge anyone to come up with a candidate that understands the MLS structures as well as Mo does, while having decent contacts in the UK and Europe.

Despite what people may think, bringing someone to TFC isn't as easy as it looks. Foreigners want to play in America, not Canada, Americans don't want to leave home unless it's for Europe. We play on TURF. There are so many reasons for pro's to not come to Toronto, yet Mo has managed to put together a very respectable team...and moving forward, we look to be getting even stronger.

And most importantly, Mo has done what he said he was going to do "I want to get all the top Canadian players on Toronto FC". He's got Gerba, Serioux and most importantly DeRo. He was in touching distance for arguably Canada's best player (JDG).

Get'r done ML$E. We want MOre.

I miss you CB :rolleyes:

ilikemusic
07-29-2009, 09:34 AM
They will do it after a victory.

If they re-up him before this season is finished (i.e. before he provides ANY results), then just fucking shoot me. :facepalm:

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 09:36 AM
Mo is ok at acquiring players, but not so good at assembling a team......two very different things. And the latter is more important than the former imo.....

I'd like to see at least 2 playoff years in this first 5 year term before theres ANY consideration of an extension....

Gazza_55
07-29-2009, 09:57 AM
Mo should be in charge of the NCAA draft and that's it.

We have had one quality defender in 3 years (Nana), his scouting in Europe, SA, and Africa has been a disaster, and players like Harmse, Velez etc have stayed on the team long after their past due date. There's Cdn centrebacks in MLS starting for teams better than us who are making hardly any money.

He is not a good General Manager.

Parkdale
07-29-2009, 10:01 AM
I'd like to see at least 2 playoff years in this first 5 year term before theres ANY consideration of an extension....

and the current contract renewal of 2 years would take him to that 5 year point.

he's not going to be working without a contract, so this renewal would be needed just to get to 5 years
(and the assessment of his 5 year tenure that you suggest)

C.Ronaldo
07-29-2009, 10:36 AM
still think we should try for more south american flavour

when he has the nads to release Brennan, then I'll be impressed

mclaren
07-29-2009, 10:42 AM
The worst thing we could now is offer Mo a new contract.

rocker
07-29-2009, 10:44 AM
if the team improves in points by the end of the season, which would three seasons of increasing points, no question do you give him an extension. If we end up with 35 points again, then no.

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 10:53 AM
and the current contract renewal of 2 years would take him to that 5 year point.

he's not going to be working without a contract, so this renewal would be needed just to get to 5 years
(and the assessment of his 5 year tenure that you suggest)

right, I had my numbers mixed up....in any case, its playoffs or bust for Mo this year imo....3 years is enough time to build a playoff team in this league....

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 10:56 AM
if the team improves in points by the end of the season, which would three seasons of increasing points, no question do you give him an extension. If we end up with 35 points again, then no.

so if TFC improves their point total for this year, and still misses the playoffs has there really been any improvement overall?....to me all that would show is that the rest of the teams are improving at a much faster pace tham we are.....playofs are the goal....point totals are irrelevant to me.

Parkdale
07-29-2009, 11:02 AM
.....playofs are the goal....point totals are irrelevant to me.

my two goals for the season


win the voyagers cup
make the playoffs

right now Mo's batting .500

Obviously I'd love it if we advance in Concacaf, and do well in the playoffs,
but the main goals still stand. Beyond that, it's all gravy.

ua-kozak_TFC
07-29-2009, 11:10 AM
I think Mo does more harm than he does good... we;ve been screaming for a better defence since year one.... yet he has DONE very little to improove it and give it depth... he just does "trades which look a steal on paper... Harmse, Garcia, Ruiz, etc" that are useless and don;t improove the team in any way...

I think what MLSE wants is a manager loyal to them... which mo is ( remember how he was steaming about field turf and saying how great it was and what now the first 2 years) SO mo just wants MOney and MLSE just want money... SAd but true and it will take a long time before we get someone who puts the CLUB before the MOney and that's when we'll succeed...

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 11:11 AM
my two goals for the season


win the voyagers cup
make the playoffs
right now Mo's batting .500

Obviously I'd love it if we advance in Concacaf, and do well in the playoffs,
but the main goals still stand. Beyond that, it's all gravy.

these were exactly my 2 goals for the team this year as well....if they are not reached, then something went wrong, and someone has to take the blame. Cummins?.....no way....he was thrown into this and has done a decent job as a fairly young coach with 0 MLS coaching experience. If the goals are not reached it HAS to fall on Mo....especially considering his apparent MLS experience and knowledge of the league. If anything those factors should've always allowed TFC to grow at a faster pace.

Yohan
07-29-2009, 11:19 AM
before firiing someone, you gotta have someone else in mind to replace him with.
good GMs may be harder to find than good coaches in MLS. at least with coaches, you can get someone who doesn't exactly know MLS but willing to learn, but the GM must already know the rules. I really can't think off my head who else is available as GM that'd be better than Mo

for every Velez and Ruiz deals Mo made, you got Vitti, Guevara. no GM is ever going to bat 100%. given the restrictions he's had I think he's done well. he's brought in a lot of proven MLS performers. it's just that they didn't work out for toronto. looking at Cunningham, Ruiz and Buddle's resumes, you wouldn't think they'd be bunch of flops

Mo's also made couple of deals that absolutely skinned other GMs.
Richardson deal which netted Toronto a 2nd round pick plus allocation to Colorado, who eventually released Richardson is a howler. I know DeRo wanted out of Houston badly, but it's still one of bargain deals of MLS history that Mo gave up just JJ and some allocation for DeRo.

although Gerba and White are still a bit of question mark right now, if they work out, Toronto is really a good CB away from a good team by MLS standards. the rest is up to coach and players to perform on the field.

trade deadline IIRC is 15 sept. plenty of time to see what other moves Mo makes, and whether TFC makes the playoffs or not to judge whether Mo warrants an extension

ua-kozak_TFC
07-29-2009, 11:24 AM
my two goals for the season


win the voyagers cup
make the playoffs

right now Mo's batting .500

Obviously I'd love it if we advance in Concacaf, and do well in the playoffs,
but the main goals still stand. Beyond that, it's all gravy.

that is such low goal... You are saying that if Puerto Rico Islanders beat is you feel that this was a successful attempt???

i think if we don;t make the group stage it will be disapointment...

ps: MO said it himself at the end of 07 that playoff for next year... that would make him below .500

Jack
07-29-2009, 11:26 AM
so if TFC improves their point total for this year, and still misses the playoffs has there really been any improvement overall?....to me all that would show is that the rest of the teams are improving at a much faster pace tham we are.....playofs are the goal....point totals are irrelevant to me.
The math doesn't work there.

There are a finite number of points available during the season, so there's not really a way that other teams can improve at a faster pace than us. It would mean that others have dropped lower so a few can go higher.

prizby
07-29-2009, 11:33 AM
there are 90 points available in a season
anything less than 89 points is considered a disappointment

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 11:45 AM
The math doesn't work there.

There are a finite number of points available during the season, so there's not really a way that other teams can improve at a faster pace than us. It would mean that others have dropped lower so a few can go higher.

well, say TFC has 2 more points than last year.....theoretically, this would be an improvement to some, but at the same time the teams below TFC could have dropped more points to the teams above TFC, and that would widen the gap between TFC and the playoffs.

wzhxvy
07-29-2009, 11:50 AM
First of all...let the team finish the season before you extend him, even if you wanted to. On what freaking basis is he getting an extension now ? If we dont make the playoffs, why are we extending him ?

I have little time for him and I think he has done a questionable job but at the end of the day, I will put my dislike for the human being aside, if we deliver results. What freaking results have we delivered so far ?? WAY PREMATURE this whole thing

rocker
07-29-2009, 11:50 AM
that is such low goal... You are saying that if Puerto Rico Islanders beat is you feel that this was a successful attempt???


well, we never did it before, so it's not a "low goal".. so i agree with parky... it's just the next goal when you lost the cup the year before.

I would say *next year* that just winning the canadian championship is not enough, since it's a goal already met the previous year.

rocker
07-29-2009, 11:53 AM
well, say TFC has 2 more points than last year.....theoretically, this would be an improvement to some, but at the same time the teams below TFC could have dropped more points to the teams above TFC, and that would widen the gap between TFC and the playoffs.

but points are the most objective way of judging improvement. it's numbers.
any other means of assessment is less objective, more subjective.
that's fine, but I'll stick with points, since it's a number that is not in dispute or requires me to defend my opinion. I can say "we got 25 points in year 1, 35 points in year 2, 45 points in year three". By any person's judgement, that's a success.

Jack
07-29-2009, 11:54 AM
well, say TFC has 2 more points than last year.....theoretically, this would be an improvement to some, but at the same time the teams below TFC could have dropped more points to the teams above TFC, and that would widen the gap between TFC and the playoffs.
I understand, but you said "the rest of the teams".

If it's "some teams" then you're right.

Parkdale
07-29-2009, 11:55 AM
First of all...let the team finish the season before you extend him, even if you wanted to. On what freaking basis is he getting an extension now ?

he has a smart agent?

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 11:57 AM
but points are the most objective way of judging improvement. it's numbers.
any other means of assessment is less objective, more subjective.
that's fine, but I'll stick with points, since it's a number that is not in dispute or requires me to defend my opinion. I can say "we got 25 points in year 1, 35 points in year 2, 45 points in year three". By any person's judgement, that's a success.

not necessarily.....success is defined by whether or not golas were reached. For you the goal is progression in points. For me it is winning the V's Cup and making the playoffs this year.

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 11:59 AM
I understand, but you said "the rest of the teams".

If it's "some teams" then you're right.

I hear ya Jack....by "rest of the teams" I meant rest of the teams....above TFC.

Jack
07-29-2009, 12:05 PM
I hear ya Jack....by "rest of the teams" I meant rest of the teams....above TFC.
Which are the ones we should be concerned about :iagree:

TFC Tifoso
07-29-2009, 12:17 PM
Which are the ones we should be concerned about :iagree:

yep :hump:

ochos
07-29-2009, 12:21 PM
Just so the big guns know....



It's completely unacceptable that during the protest a few weeks back - we chanted anti-MOJO chants. This is a bi-partisan issue among the group, and something I felt uncomfortable chanting.

And now look, many of the people who chanted against him are supporting him once more.

Jack
07-29-2009, 12:23 PM
Anti-Mojo?

I remember "Keep Your Word"

I didn't chant "Mo must Go" and I have never believed he must. There is a big difference between wanting to put pressure on him to live up to what he promised and wanting him gone.

You can find statements by me to that effect in articles and interviews I've done.

VPjr
07-29-2009, 12:36 PM
This news doesn't surprise me. In the eyes of many MLSE execs, Mo is untouchable. Playoffs or not, guys like Hunter and Anselmi love Mo.

I personally can't stand the man. I think he is a very subpar manager, I think his drafting expertise is ridiculously overrated, I've seen no evidence that his contact network is worthy of praise and he doesn't appear to know how to build a team but rather just collects pieces and hopes to make them fit together.

A mere few weeks ago, Mo was a complete idiot and the TFC front office were a bunch of jerks and many SG members were busy organizing a protest. Now, a few weeks later, Mo is okey dokey and lets keep him around. Makes me scratch my head. Anyone remember the old Saturday Night Live skit "lowered expectations"? I think they should bring that skit back and put TFC jerseys on the actors.

Mo is the singular reason why I can't bring myself to really care about the team anymore.

Hitcho
07-29-2009, 12:42 PM
As a lifelong Celtic supporter and person who by all accounts should not like Mo Johnston, I think it would be a mistake for the club to let him go.

I challenge anyone to come up with a candidate that understands the MLS structures as well as Mo does, while having decent contacts in the UK and Europe.

Despite what people may think, bringing someone to TFC isn't as easy as it looks. Foreigners want to play in America, not Canada, Americans don't want to leave home unless it's for Europe. We play on TURF. There are so many reasons for pro's to not come to Toronto, yet Mo has managed to put together a very respectable team...and moving forward, we look to be getting even stronger.

And most importantly, Mo has done what he said he was going to do "I want to get all the top Canadian players on Toronto FC". He's got Gerba, Serioux and most importantly DeRo. He was in touching distance for arguably Canada's best player (JDG).

Get'r done ML$E. We want MOre.

Totally agree dude. I'd also add that Mo is a fucking genius in the draft. Look at who he's picked or traded for down the years, and look how brilliantly he played the draft last season, right down to the final minutes in refusing a trade he didn't think would improve us. And I don;t accept that "it;s obvious who to pick" because those comments are all made with hindsight. None of us knew a thing about the likes of Cronin or Frei before Mo selected them, just snippets of press rumours and baseless stats. Same would have been true at the time for Edu and Adu etc.

Mo was a crap coach but is doing a great job as GM in my book, and he's growing itno the role too - we're getting better season by season and are now on a steady path to having a really strong MLS squad.

AL-MO
07-29-2009, 12:45 PM
This news doesn't surprise me. In the eyes of many MLSE execs, Mo is untouchable. Playoffs or not, guys like Hunter and Anselmi love Mo.

I personally can't stand the man. I think he is a very subpar manager, I think his drafting expertise is ridiculously overrated, I've seen no evidence that his contact network is worthy of praise and he doesn't appear to know how to build a team but rather just collects pieces and hopes to make them fit together.

A mere few weeks ago, Mo was a complete idiot and the TFC front office were a bunch of jerks and many SG members were busy organizing a protest. Now, a few weeks later, Mo is okey dokey and lets keep him around. Makes me scratch my head. Anyone remember the old Saturday Night Live skit "lowered expectations"? I think they should bring that skit back and put TFC jerseys on the actors.

Mo is the singular reason why I can't bring myself to really care about the team anymore.

That was actually a MadTV skit ;) :p

As for Mo, I'd wait until the end of the season to make a decision on that.

Roogsy
07-29-2009, 12:45 PM
Anti-Mojo?

I remember "Keep Your Word"

I didn't chant "Mo must Go" and I have never believed he must. There is a big difference between wanting to put pressure on him to live up to what he promised and wanting him gone.

You can find statements by me to that effect in articles and interviews I've done.

Agreed...I don't remember any anti-Mo chants.

We want grass.

Keep your word.

Everything we've complained about had to do with showing the entire FO that they needed to do better, including but not exclusive to, Mo.

At this point, I am not excited about this extension but I can't give overwhelming reason for MLSE not to do it. It's their choice and since I don't know the man personally, I cannot speak to his character. His management CV however has incredible highlights and low points.

Yohan
07-29-2009, 12:47 PM
one adjustment Mo seemed to have made is that he's taken care to get as many canadian players as possible, in order to free up international slots for quality players.

I think he realize that he made a mistake in not going after Jakovic, Johnson and Hainault when they were available. (or somehow he didn't know about them)

I dunno if he didn't rate canadians before, but something changed his mind to build the team around a core of canadians, instead of internationals

Hitcho
07-29-2009, 12:54 PM
I dunno if he didn't rate canadians before, but something changed his mind to build the team around a core of canadians, instead of internationals

Vancouver coming into the league and the knowledge that he will now have to share the good canadian players with at least one more team, and two if the Limp Act get in. Sign them up now while the competition isn;t in place and all other MLS teams view them as international spots being taken up.

VPjr
07-29-2009, 01:04 PM
since I don't know the man personally, I cannot speak to his character. His management CV however has incredible highlights and low points.

I am sincerely curious to know what you consider as "incredible highlights" in his management CV?

He has made a few decent trades, no doubt, but I can't think of anything that I would deem "incredible".

Not trying to pick a fight...just curious.

VPjr
07-29-2009, 01:05 PM
That was actually a MadTV skit ;) :p

I stand corrected...thanks Al

RedRum
07-29-2009, 01:09 PM
Just so the big guns know....



It's completely unacceptable that during the protest a few weeks back - we chanted anti-MOJO chants. This is a bi-partisan issue among the group, and something I felt uncomfortable chanting.

And now look, many of the people who chanted against him are supporting him once more.

Your swinging tits...

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
07-29-2009, 01:15 PM
As a lifelong Celtic supporter and person who by all accounts should not like Mo Johnston, I think it would be a mistake for the club to let him go.

I challenge anyone to come up with a candidate that understands the MLS structures as well as Mo does, while having decent contacts in the UK and Europe.

Despite what people may think, bringing someone to TFC isn't as easy as it looks. Foreigners want to play in America, not Canada, Americans don't want to leave home unless it's for Europe. We play on TURF. There are so many reasons for pro's to not come to Toronto, yet Mo has managed to put together a very respectable team...and moving forward, we look to be getting even stronger.

And most importantly, Mo has done what he said he was going to do "I want to get all the top Canadian players on Toronto FC". He's got Gerba, Serioux and most importantly DeRo. He was in touching distance for arguably Canada's best player (JDG).

Get'r done ML$E. We want MOre.

couldnt agree more...mikey! This isnt your everyday league..Ive stood by mo from day one...and believe it or not this team is a solid team in a very ballanced league...sure there are a few more moves in the future to take care some of the weaker points such as our dreadful D!...but if you comapare this team from day one to now....this little RED head fooooooker has done all right in my books! I aslo hope he gets his extention!

AS for the playoffs....its gona be tough..people have to relize that this league is so ballanced....everyone is equal...not like in europe where you have your tops 4's and you know these are the teams who will be in the end!...Thats what in my mind sets MLS apart from any other league in football!...Sure the tallent is not the same as other leagues..but i bet anyone who support european bottom feeder teams....they would die for such a ballanced league!....NFL football is another example! ;)

Cashcleaner
07-29-2009, 01:56 PM
Two more years of Mo? No thanks. I think we should be looking for a replacement after this season has ended. Cummins is shaping up well, though.

Yohan
07-29-2009, 01:59 PM
for those of you that want Mo gone, who do you suggest as a replacement? (that is available)

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
07-29-2009, 02:02 PM
Two more years of Mo? No thanks. I think we should be looking for a replacement after this season has ended. Cummins is shaping up well, though.

yea that would make sence.....Start fresh....:facepalm:

Hitcho
07-29-2009, 02:03 PM
Two more years of Mo? No thanks. I think we should be looking for a replacement after this season has ended. Cummins is shaping up well, though.

^ hah, i'd go the other way actually.

mo is starting to build a really good squad and it may have taken longer than we hoped, but he's done it carefully and amassed allocation etc rather than rushing it. the average age of the squad is coming down too, whcih is good, and it;s getting more canadian by the month which is also helpful under the stupid, biased MLS rules for TFC vs all other sides.

on the other hand, cummins started with a bang but has been found lacking a bit in some games recently. to be fair, he's been hampered by injuries and friendlies though and for the record I would back him 100% at the moment. if he can get us into the play offs and make some kind of run, anything, in the CL and post season then he'd have done a great job and would fully deserve to continue. I think he can achieve thate asily enough.

for what it's worth I also think cummins is a great coach (as opposed to manager) and that's a great thing to hold onto going forward. if he can keep improving as a manager then he'd be a great choice in the long term.

Cashcleaner
07-29-2009, 02:24 PM
for those of you that want Mo gone, who do you suggest as a replacement? (that is available)

Luckily I don't need to suggest a replacement as I don't make the big bucks as a TFC operations executive. That's their job. All I can go by is the track record. Sure we're doing pretty good at the moment (hardly stellar, though), but for all we know, we could be doing a lot better. I am of the camp that think we could do better with someone else at the helm.

Hitcho
07-29-2009, 02:29 PM
^ Fair enough. What do you think Mo could be doing better then, out of curiosity? (Not a barb, just asking dude).

MisterMacphisto
07-29-2009, 02:31 PM
Single worst thing for this franchise would be to keep Mo.

Not only has Mo got to Go, Mo should of left last year.

2 year extension? :facepalm:

Hitcho
07-29-2009, 02:36 PM
Single worst thing for this franchise would be to keep Mo.

Not only has Mo got to Go, Mo should of left last year.

2 year extension? :facepalm:

why? you can't just make sweeping statements like that and then not back them up. well, not if you want people arguing the other way to take your comments seriously anyway! :D:D

seriously guys, i know Mo isn't popular, and i know he isn;t perfect, but he has some clear strengths which i think outweigh his perceived weakness in the role. so just curious to see why it is people think keeping him is such a bad idea.

Cashcleaner
07-29-2009, 02:51 PM
^ Fair enough. What do you think Mo could be doing better then, out of curiosity? (Not a barb, just asking dude).

First off, I'd like to see him actually stand up for the players and the staff when dealing with the club exec rather than just be an MLSE mouthpiece for policy. Example: DeRo drops the bombshell about being unhappy that grass is installed for Real Madrid, but not permanently for the team to play on and Mo is noticeably quiet over the whole issue.

What we have been getting from Mo is damage control - by the bucketful. He's been going on and on about potential signings, a Designated Player, and a veritable laundry list of goods. For every 10 promises he's made, maybe 1 came to fruition.

Lastly, the further away he is from the coach the better. Let Cummins do his job without someone watching over his shoulder. It's good to see Mo is easing up after Carver left, but Mo simply doesn't have a head for dictating the course of play and shouldn't be worrying about what's going on in the mind of the coach.

Hitcho
07-29-2009, 03:04 PM
Cash - thanks for the response, interesting points.

- not sure it's Mo's job to take the players' sides on stuff liek getting grass. he si the GM of TFC and emmployed by MLSE so should be neutral on player vs owners issues. i wouldn;t want to see him shitting on the players if the owners were unhappy with anyone, and vice versa. it's more for the coach to stadn up for the players than the GM in my book, but some grey lines to be crossed there i guess.

- agreed about promises not being delivered on, but what we don;t always get info on is how much effort mo has put into some of the promises and/or how close he came to making good on them. or if MLSE issud a veto on certain signigns etc. ebsides which, the alternative is just silence from the FO on a whole host ofissues and that would be taken even worse by the fans and elad to all kinds of theories about the club sinking like a stone.

- agreed about the clear separation of coach and GM. although to me it;s weird that Mo builds the sqaud and Cummins works with it. cummins should identify the players and mo brings them in, at elast in theory. that seemed to be the case with JC and Mo, or at elast they worled together on the list of players. but yeah, mo was a crap coach and shouldn;t be doing both roles.

However, he has some strengths that outweight these relatively minor issues. he knows MLS and the ludicrous rules, as well as how best to oerate within them, extremely well. he's also a very shrewd operator when it comes to making trades with other MLS teams. and we know he's got a stellar draft record. plus he has good conenctions in MLS and the UK. he's also started signign up top canadian players and bringing down the average age of the squad, as well signing some great players (for MLS) overall. and give him credit for bringing in guys like robert and tebily even though they didn;t work out, same with ricketts. we were all stoked when they arrived, but the players were responsible for the flops they turned out to be, not Mo.

i think he deserves to stay put, especially if no-one else can be identified as a suggested replacement and the good points he has cannot be outweighed by any bad points. also, there's a lot to be said for continuity in a club, and we need that at GM level since we have not had it at coaching level.

just my opinion though.

olegunnar
07-29-2009, 03:16 PM
We have a sub par backline. Mo builds the roster

We have an undermanned roster (what is it we have? 4 unused spots???). Mo signs the players

We never have any sort of back up plan re: roster moves. Mo makes the deals (Ty Marshall deal anyone? How much allocation exactly did we waste getting Garcia?)

We have zero depth. Uhm...Mo? Going to do anything about it? Let me guess "we have some things in the works"

We've wasted our allocation slush fund. See above

We're still, 2 and a half years in, a revolving door of a franchise. Thanks to Mo.

Out of a playoff spot if the season ended now.

All of the above are on Mo.


Yet somehow there's people defending his record?? Why? Because it's all because of Mo Serioux and DeRo wanted to come home? Or because L'impact decided to substitute the Trois Rivieres Attack roster in their game against us June 18th?

giambac
07-29-2009, 03:20 PM
tweet:


This is a joke Right?

Should have sent this out on April Fools day - but July 29th???

Mo hasn't delivered on one promise he has made. Wait until the season ends and if TFC doesn't make the playoffs and if he doesn't get a Dp then sack him the day after the season ends.

Yohan
07-29-2009, 03:26 PM
i knew it. if there is one topic that'd get giambac to come out, it's a Mo thread. lol

giambac
07-29-2009, 03:28 PM
We have a sub par backline. Mo builds the roster

We have an undermanned roster (what is it we have? 4 unused spots???). Mo signs the players

We never have any sort of back up plan re: roster moves. Mo makes the deals (Ty Marshall deal anyone? How much allocation exactly did we waste getting Garcia?)

We have zero depth. Uhm...Mo? Going to do anything about it? Let me guess "we have some things in the works"

We've wasted our allocation slush fund. See above

We're still, 2 and a half years in, a revolving door of a franchise. Thanks to Mo.

Out of a playoff spot if the season ended now.

All of the above are on Mo.


Yet somehow there's people defending his record?? Why? Because it's all because of Mo Serioux and DeRo wanted to come home? Or because L'impact decided to substitute the Trois Rivieres Attack roster in their game against us June 18th?


Man I agree with every point you have said.

I just don't get Toronto sport fans whether it's the Leafs, Jays, Raptors or TFC.

People are happy with mediocre at best. I mean what has TFC accompished? Look at the results year 1, 2 and now in 3rd year (as of today not in a playoff spot). Why the talk about a contract extension of 2 years. I don't get it. What if TFC just make sit into the playoffs- would you offer him a 5 year contract extension and a KEY to the City?

Until the team proves itself and until Mo does something to get us over the hump then no way. I don't want another JP Ricciardi on the Toronto sports management side.

Hitcho
07-29-2009, 03:48 PM
olegunnar - our first choice back line is actually pretty solid. i agree that we could use more depth, but with the salary cap and international rules for TFC only in this league, it;s not as easy as it sounds to fill the spots. i;d rather leave them open for now in case someone good comes along than fill them with shite just for the sake of it. the players we let go were shite, no point replacing them with shite.

some of the issue is probably down to the difficulty in getting players to canada and plastic over the us and grass. i agree it's mo;s job to deal wioth that, but that doesn;t mean he can wave a wand and solve the problems. my guess anyone else would struggle just as much as Mo has to build a better squad than the one we have now, because they;d be dealign with the same issues. BUT, a replcaement might notbe as good as Mo at working within the MLS fucked up rules book and plundering the best draft picks, or squeezing a deal out of other mls clubs.

in fairness i think there's a case to be made for and against mo, and i can see why people want him replaced. but for me he's still on the keep side of the coin, at least for now, unless a better candidate comes along.

giambac
07-29-2009, 03:54 PM
olegunnar - our first choice back line is actually pretty solid. i agree that we could use more depth, but with the salary cap and international rules for TFC only in this league, it;s not as easy as it sounds to fill the spots. i;d rather leave them open for now in case someone good comes along than fill them with shite just for the sake of it. the players we let go were shite, no point replacing them with shite.

some of the issue is probably down to the difficulty in getting players to canada and plastic over the us and grass. i agree it's mo;s job to deal wioth that, but that doesn;t mean he can wave a wand and solve the problems. my guess anyone else would struggle just as much as Mo has to build a better squad than the one we have now, because they;d be dealign with the same issues. BUT, a replcaement might notbe as good as Mo at working within the MLS fucked up rules book and plundering the best draft picks, or squeezing a deal out of other mls clubs.

in fairness i think there's a case to be made for and against mo, and i can see why people want him replaced. but for me he's still on the keep side of the coin, at least for now, unless a better candidate comes along.


Hitcho - I may agree to keep him for now, but the topic is about giving him a 2 year extension. That's where it gets crazy. Why? What has he done. It's one thing to keep him until the season ends to see how the team does but why the talk, why the hurry to give him 2 more years. What is the upside to a contract extension. To me its a risky decision that locks the team up to a person where the jury is still out on him. I hope they don't make a decision that they will regret in a years time. Play the games, play the season and then let's talk.

No production, no results = No contract extension
Production, results = contract extension.

It's that simple.

Cashcleaner
07-29-2009, 03:58 PM
^ Yeah, I think I'm of the same mind. I mean, if we get into the playoffs and make a good run of it, an extension could be justified.

The thing is, we're not there yet.

Jack
07-29-2009, 04:46 PM
Mo has come out and said we need to get grass. I heard it with my own ears.

Cashcleaner
07-29-2009, 04:51 PM
^ Well that's a good start then.

S_D
07-29-2009, 04:51 PM
Hitcho - I may agree to keep him for now, but the topic is about giving him a 2 year extension. That's where it gets crazy. Why? What has he done. It's one thing to keep him until the season ends to see how the team does but why the talk, why the hurry to give him 2 more years. What is the upside to a contract extension. To me its a risky decision that locks the team up to a person where the jury is still out on him. I hope they don't make a decision that they will regret in a years time. Play the games, play the season and then let's talk.

No production, no results = No contract extension
Production, results = contract extension.

It's that simple.

agreed.

And points increases don't mean much to me either. Saying you got more points than last season when there are new franchises added every season means to me that you have to keep on improving your points total every year just to keep up.

ua-kozak_TFC
07-29-2009, 10:10 PM
^ Fair enough. What do you think Mo could be doing better then, out of curiosity? (Not a barb, just asking dude).
SIgning players...

We are one of the teams with the biggest number of players in the top 50 salaries... yet by our standing does;t show... that is missmanagement.

Defence has been a problem since i can remember yet he hasn;t adressed the problems...

giambac
07-30-2009, 09:54 AM
Do you still want to give MO a 2 year contract extension. Defence is a problem he hasn't addressed from the start of the season. We lost yesterday. We lost vs CC becasue of the defence and you want to award him with 2 more years???????????

Jack
07-30-2009, 09:55 AM
Suggestions for a replacement, please.

fetajr
07-30-2009, 09:57 AM
^^ any manager who believes in attacking possession football.

no more boot it up the field nonsense.

Rene Simoes for starters (speaks English and willing to come to Canada)

olegunnar
07-30-2009, 10:07 AM
So it's not the RPB anymore? It's the RSS?? Redpatch Staffing Solutions.

Maybe the supporters can support and the management can begin vetting their own list of candidates.

I wonder if they even have one. On the one hand it's MLSE...a well run (from a corporate angle) business....but on the other hand, TFC seems to be so willy nilly and unorganized.

Jack
07-30-2009, 10:10 AM
I was just curious. Everyone calls for him to be removed (which is a "staffing solution") while no one proposes who would replace him.

I guess "supporting" allows you to bitch about the manager but proposing someone else is "not a supporter's job" :rolleyes:

fetajr
07-30-2009, 10:16 AM
^^ Huge problem is that management (ANSELMI) knows dick about football and probably thinks Mo is the greatest mind in footbal (as mentioned from this post http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=15928&page=7#post646127) (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=15928&page=7#post646127)

So if Anselmi knows shit, how will he ever realize this and go about finding the correct person to run the team?

This is fucked. Anselmi is better off hiring Gord Kirke to lead a 'search committee' comprised of a couple former world class players, maybe a knowledgable football agent, and working together to identify a list of the best available football managers on the planet.... much like MLSE did when looking for the new sure shot GM of the Leafs. This will cost MLSE some money though, which is why i fear it won't happen

SoccMan
07-30-2009, 10:50 AM
Look at Seattle they start a team, they need a coach they go after a guy who had just won an MLS Cup, and I guy who had won other MLS Cups with the Galaxy. There are two guys in New England one the coach the other his assistant that would do a good job here for Toronto, go get them, throw some money at them and they will be here in a heart beat. Mo has failed it's time to say goodbye, this team has failed on the field and as long as Mo is there we are going nowhere fast. We need a winner before our stands start looking as empty as Crew stadium does on game days,however, sadly it might be too late I truly believe that by next year the stadium will be much more empty on game days with a combination of the novelty wearing off and the teams on field mismanagement mainly due to Mo.

Ossington Mental Youth
07-30-2009, 11:29 AM
I think Mo does more harm than he does good... we;ve been screaming for a better defence since year one.... yet he has DONE very little to improove it and give it depth

kind of agree with this, however he has done better as the season has wore on. I dont know about a two year extension, i do think keeping him around a bit longer might be a good idea, especially as i dont think there are any better candidates. Alot of people scream for his head but honestly who would you replace him with? Fact of the matter is that MLS isnt that easy to work with. That being said i expect ALOT from him in the distant future.

giambac
07-30-2009, 11:38 AM
Suggestions for a replacement, please.

Jack,

I'm just saying don't give him 2 more years. He hasn't done anything to deserve it. It's one thing to keep him for the rest of the season or until his current contract expires, but what's with all the talk about an extension. For what? What has he done to earn it?

What are we afraid of- that he may skip town and join another club? Who would want him with his record. He should be grateful everyday he wakes up and still is employed by this organization. He has ABsolutely nowhere else to go. No one wants him. We hold the cards in our hands, he has no cards, . Please people lets not forget this.

fetajr
07-30-2009, 11:44 AM
^^ Well said.

A nutless monkey can do what Mo has done.
http://www.benstiller.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/les_grossman.jpg

VPjr
07-30-2009, 11:59 AM
+1 to Giambac's VERY LOGICAL argument.

Mo must GO. I've been saying it for about 18 months and I will continue to spin that broken record. His continued employment by MLSE only further proves how low the football IQ is at TFC headquarters.

MLS league rules are not SOOOO complicated that TFC would be doomed without him at the helm. I've speak to a few well connected MLS people who literally scof whenever the comment is made that "Mo knows the league rules so well...he's indispensible". Please. It's not bloody rocket science here. Delegate authority to a few good people (just like any professional sporting organization does) and I'm pretty sure any good football man can cover the bases effectively and help bring this team the success the supporters crave.

For those of you might reflexively point to Ruud Gullit as an example of a "good football man" who failed in MLS, I'd argue that he is not a good football man. He was a good footballer, just like Mo was, but that doesn't necessarily equate to greatness in the management suites. I predicted Ruud would fail when his hiring was announced.

S_D
07-30-2009, 02:26 PM
What I see myself is a disjointed front office. Mo is somewhat to blame but I think the blame needs to be spread around a little as I am not sure how much control Mo has over things, and how much of this is Anselmi's doing.

An INTEGRATED plan needs to be put together to take into account everything that is going on. It obviously hasn't been done.

The team is short of players. OBW, empty roster spots, and Sanyang who can't start until Aug 1.

1) It started with the drafting of OBW, knowing that he wouldn't be over his injury until half way through the season, and probably needing the other half to shake off the rust. A worthy draft pick according to the experts. Fine.

2) I personally believe (and have nothing to back this up) that the reason why there are empty roster spots is because we have run out of or are getting close to running out of cap space and allocation cash with existing players. (Sutton released, Robbo being shopped)

3) Sanyang can't start because he is too young. I am good with that.

Now here is the problem. TFC schedules friendlies knowing full well that we have the CCL. We of course get an injury. That is out of Mo's hands. But who is responsible for demanding freindlies? Is it Mo, Paul or Anselmi?

If Anselmi is the one insisting on friendlies, then Mo should have accounted for that by ensuring that the team has a full roster.

If Mo told Anselmi the plan with the roster, and Anselmi approves and then says lets get the friendlies going, Anselmi's understanding of roster limits is up the creek.

And don't get me started on Cummins. I always thought he was a bit out of his depth just due to lack of experience, and last night it showed. Cummins is on Mo's head, but I like to think that for the sake of continuity and timeliness Mo should get a mulligan on this one. Where he doesn't get a pass is at the end of the season when he has to make a decision on the management abilities on Cummins. This is still TBD but it isn't looking good as of this moment.

This whole charade just shows me pure lack of planning ability.

And as mentioned perhaps it is time to consider a President and GM. If anything, MLSE should have figured out by now that business guys like Anselmi and Peddie have screwed up their sports teams. They may be brilliant at making money(and full respect to that) but as sports managers they both get a failing grade.

Pigfynn
07-30-2009, 02:37 PM
This is apparently a 100% done deal as per Kristian Jack on the footy show podcast.

TFC Tifoso
07-30-2009, 02:42 PM
This is apparently a 100% done deal as per Kristian Jack on the footy show podcast.


somebody shoot me........:picard:

......

TFC07
07-30-2009, 03:10 PM
This is apparently a 100% done deal as per Kristian Jack on the footy show podcast.

If this is the case, then I have to really think hard if I should support this club or not. Unlike Leaf fans, a lot of soccer fans in GTA know their stuff. To see MLSE extend Mo's contract is slap to our faces.

Well done MLSE for insulting your fanbase!

Nuvinho
07-30-2009, 03:43 PM
wow...I don't think they will announce anything until something positive happens.

Hitcho
07-30-2009, 03:55 PM
If this is the case, then I have to really think hard if I should support this club or not. Unlike Leaf fans, a lot of soccer fans in GTA know their stuff. To see MLSE extend Mo's contract is slap to our faces.

Well done MLSE for insulting your fanbase!

i'm so sick of seeing this kind of post (NOTE - not an attack on the poster, just the type of message). It's just a baseless anti-Mo rant with nothing to substantiate it.

Mo knows a shit load more about football than just about anyone on these boards. have you got any clue what clubs his playing career included? how is a former player like Mo a slap in the face of people who "know their stuff"? this is a senseless comment, and frankly quite arrogant in its supposition.

have you seen who he has brought to the club? Whether or not they worked out, Mo has brought in the likes of ROB, Robert, Guevara, Brennan, Robinson, Dichio, De Rosario and Gerba. All seasoned internatioanls and all persuaded to come to a new club that plays in a backwater league on a PLASTIC pitch.

have you seen who Mo has drafted over his timein MLS? Adu, Edu, Frei and Cronin to name a few. He's a master in the draft and does months of studying form etc before each one. few can match his draft record in mls.

have you seen some of the trades he has pulled off? De Rosario for JJ is a classic example. he's also played the allocation game superbly.

have you seen our current squad? It's pretty impressive. yes, there are a couple of holes in it but just about ebery MLS squad has those because of the cap and the difficult in attracting seriously top quality players here, especially young players with a promising future (or keeping hold of them in those cases). add in a new LB and we're basically pretty nicely set, and we currently have roster and cap space to do that in an open transfer window.

So, in light of all of that, what exactly leads people to say that Mo's appointment is a "slap int he face" to people who "know their stuff"? Sure, he has his wekanesses, but who doesn't? But to outwiegh all that lot, it would need to be a long list to constitute a slap in the face.

Moreover, and this is the part that really gets me about these posts, WHO DO YOU PLAN TO REPLCE IM WITH??!! Whoever it is has to at least be able to match all of the qualities I outlined above, and more, otherwsie it is a step abckwards. To remove him for the sake of it because it is popular on these boards to make baseless statements along those lines is just plain stupidity.

Having said that, I'm willing to listent o any arguments against his reappoontment and I'll be happy to concede I am utterly wrong if someone can explain why. but so far, all i've seen is unsupported whinges. mo is not my favourite guy, but he's good at some key stuff for an MLS GM (not coach, he sucked at that). so, in the interests of the club, unless someone better can be brought in, i'd rather keep what we have and not move backwards thanks!

:picard::picard::picard:

ua-kozak_TFC
07-30-2009, 07:40 PM
i'm so sick of seeing this kind of post (NOTE - not an attack on the poster, just the type of message). It's just a baseless anti-Mo rant with nothing to substantiate it.

Mo knows a shit load more about football than just about anyone on these boards. have you got any clue what clubs his playing career included? how is a former player like Mo a slap in the face of people who "know their stuff"? this is a senseless comment, and frankly quite arrogant in its supposition.


:picard::picard::picard:


OK Don;t go all he was a great player hence he is a great manager... because for some reason i don;t see Pele being called the best coach in the world ... being a good player and being a good coach/manager ARE NOT directly proportional... So just because he was a decent fotballer once upon a time IS NOT a VALID ARGUMENT to keep the guy... YOU SHOULD look at his record as a manager... According to your Logic Mo should be infinetly better than Sigi Schmid as a coach and manager since he played at higher level and accomplished more things and has a "higher pedigree as a footballer yet somehow i DOUBT it....



Secondly to all the rest jiberish praise of Mo record here... My counter point is... AND WHAt was the end RESULT??? of these grandious signings, allocation and drafts... we ahve NO depth on the Bench and he has managed the team so "well"... that even with 4 roster spots available we had to talk about trading robbo in order to acquire JDG.,..
What has been the end product of these such great things that Mo has done over the years in here??
Answer that big guy!!!

ua-kozak_TFC
07-30-2009, 09:32 PM
Suggestions for a replacement, please.



Why are you guys so afraid Mo to be replaced?? You are talking as if we are making the play offs every year due to Mo and somehow if we replace him we wont make the play offs.. HELLo....we never made the play offs and the only happyness in these 4 years we have received was a VERY controversial nuetrallite championshop win over Montreal's second stringers ...
we got nothing to lose... Why is everone being so afraid of letting him as far as i see it.. If we don;t make the play offs this year there is NO reason whatso ever in keeping him around after this season is done...

Dirk Diggler
07-30-2009, 09:39 PM
This is apparently a 100% done deal as per Kristian Jack on the footy show podcast.

Kristian Jack is really poor with percentages ... I wouldn't trust him :D

Hitcho
07-30-2009, 10:45 PM
OK Don;t go all he was a great player hence he is a great manager... because for some reason i don;t see Pele being called the best coach in the world ... being a good player and being a good coach/manager ARE NOT directly proportional... So just because he was a decent fotballer once upon a time IS NOT a VALID ARGUMENT to keep the guy... YOU SHOULD look at his record as a manager... According to your Logic Mo should be infinetly better than Sigi Schmid as a coach and manager since he played at higher level and accomplished more things and has a "higher pedigree as a footballer yet somehow i DOUBT it....



Secondly to all the rest jiberish praise of Mo record here... My counter point is... AND WHAt was the end RESULT??? of these grandious signings, allocation and drafts... we ahve NO depth on the Bench and he has managed the team so "well"... that even with 4 roster spots available we had to talk about trading robbo in order to acquire JDG.,..
What has been the end product of these such great things that Mo has done over the years in here??
Answer that big guy!!!

You've missed the boat completely dude. Mo is NOT the manager (in the traditional meaning of the word in football rather than the north american meaning) nor is he the coach. I actually said in my post he made a shitty coach in season one, no-one really debates that. But his role is very different as GM and in THAT role he's doing well enough in my book.

To answer some of your more specific points:

- i did NOT make the point of great player = great coach, i said he knows more about football than most of the people on these boards, because the poster i quoted claimed the reverse. can you seriously tell me that your average canadian fan knows more about football than Mo does? that's what i was disputing.

- the end result has been down ot the coaches to achieve. Mo has put togethr what is now a pretty tasty squad. it;s not his job to win games with that squad, it's his job to build a good squad, the coaches then work with that sqaud. so if you're looking to blame someone for the results, you're blaming the wrong position. admittely if Mo builds a shit squad then the coach has no chance. but right now we have a decent sqaud.

- the empty three spots or whatever it si is pretty meaningless. they accounted for the worst few players on the squad (bar sutton who was just too expensive to be a sub). if you look at the worst few players on any MLS squad they typically add very little to the mix. we would not be much stronger with the likes of smith back on the roster, and the cap means you have to have weak players to fill up all spots.

- You're comparing Sigi to Mo? One is a coach, the other is a GM. :facepalm:

And, just like all the other posters on here slamming Mo, you have neglected to list any decent replacement who could do everything Mo does and more in order to improve on our current GM. How come no-one has come up with a single name? Shitting on a guy's record is easy from the comfort of your armchair, but all you've come up with as substance to support it so far is a criticism of the coaches (not Mo's job) and not much else, including someone who could do better.

I stress again (and I don;t thbink you read this in my previous post) I am not really Mo's biggest fan, but you have tolook at this dispassionately, which I don;t think many people on here do. The bottom line is, unless someone is identified to come in and do better, why the hell are we going to sack Mo and bring in someone worse? What's the sense in that? If there are good reasons for him to go, and someone better can be found, then i would support that. Until someone comes up with a coherent se of arguments on that front though, I think we're better off keeping Mo in place.

mclaren
07-30-2009, 10:51 PM
i'm so sick of seeing this kind of post (NOTE - not an attack on the poster, just the type of message). It's just a baseless anti-Mo rant with nothing to substantiate it.

Mo knows a shit load more about football than just about anyone on these boards. have you got any clue what clubs his playing career included? how is a former player like Mo a slap in the face of people who "know their stuff"? this is a senseless comment, and frankly quite arrogant in its supposition.

have you seen who he has brought to the club? Whether or not they worked out, Mo has brought in the likes of ROB, Robert, Guevara, Brennan, Robinson, Dichio, De Rosario and Gerba. All seasoned internatioanls and all persuaded to come to a new club that plays in a backwater league on a PLASTIC pitch.

have you seen who Mo has drafted over his timein MLS? Adu, Edu, Frei and Cronin to name a few. He's a master in the draft and does months of studying form etc before each one. few can match his draft record in mls.

have you seen some of the trades he has pulled off? De Rosario for JJ is a classic example. he's also played the allocation game superbly.

have you seen our current squad? It's pretty impressive. yes, there are a couple of holes in it but just about ebery MLS squad has those because of the cap and the difficult in attracting seriously top quality players here, especially young players with a promising future (or keeping hold of them in those cases). add in a new LB and we're basically pretty nicely set, and we currently have roster and cap space to do that in an open transfer window.

So, in light of all of that, what exactly leads people to say that Mo's appointment is a "slap int he face" to people who "know their stuff"? Sure, he has his wekanesses, but who doesn't? But to outwiegh all that lot, it would need to be a long list to constitute a slap in the face.

Moreover, and this is the part that really gets me about these posts, WHO DO YOU PLAN TO REPLCE IM WITH??!! Whoever it is has to at least be able to match all of the qualities I outlined above, and more, otherwsie it is a step abckwards. To remove him for the sake of it because it is popular on these boards to make baseless statements along those lines is just plain stupidity.

Having said that, I'm willing to listent o any arguments against his reappoontment and I'll be happy to concede I am utterly wrong if someone can explain why. but so far, all i've seen is unsupported whinges. mo is not my favourite guy, but he's good at some key stuff for an MLS GM (not coach, he sucked at that). so, in the interests of the club, unless someone better can be brought in, i'd rather keep what we have and not move backwards thanks!

:picard::picard::picard:

at some point though, the folks who defend Mo time and time again as a "Master Drafter", have to ask themselves, "if he is such an amazing wheeler-dealer", why has he not achieved results where they matter, on the pitch. I couldn't care less if he is apparently great at making deals, if they don't translate to results on the pitch. Again, just throwing in the bottom line into the argument.

mclaren
07-30-2009, 10:54 PM
Why are you guys so afraid Mo to be replaced?? You are talking as if we are making the play offs every year due to Mo and somehow if we replace him we wont make the play offs.. HELLo....we never made the play offs and the only happyness in these 4 years we have received was a VERY controversial nuetrallite championshop win over Montreal's second stringers ...
we got nothing to lose... Why is everone being so afraid of letting him as far as i see it.. If we don;t make the play offs this year there is NO reason whatso ever in keeping him around after this season is done...

The "suggestions for a replacement" argument is defunct. Are you telling me that if MLSE installed me as coach tomorrow and then in a year's time I had lost every single game, they wouldn't and shouldn't fire me because they have nobody on hand to replace me right away? That's not how it works in business. It would be the job of "My boss" (MLSE) to find suitable replacements, not the paying customers.

Hitcho
07-31-2009, 08:59 AM
at some point though, the folks who defend Mo time and time again as a "Master Drafter", have to ask themselves, "if he is such an amazing wheeler-dealer", why has he not achieved results where they matter, on the pitch. I couldn't care less if he is apparently great at making deals, if they don't translate to results on the pitch. Again, just throwing in the bottom line into the argument.


i'll say it again, in my opinion it is not down to Mo to get results on the pitch. the anti-Mo brigade can;t have their cake and eat it. o the one hand they say he's a crap coach and should stay away from first team affairs. on the other, they say HE'S not getting results on the pitch. it;s the coach's job to get the results out of the squad. it;s the GM's job to build a decent sqqud for the coach to work with. at least, that's how i see it, i may be wrong.

Hitcho
07-31-2009, 09:04 AM
The "suggestions for a replacement" argument is defunct. Are you telling me that if MLSE installed me as coach tomorrow and then in a year's time I had lost every single game, they wouldn't and shouldn't fire me because they have nobody on hand to replace me right away? That's not how it works in business. It would be the job of "My boss" (MLSE) to find suitable replacements, not the paying customers.

yes and no. i see your point and it makes sense, of course. but coaches are ten a penny in some respects, we've already had some reasonably recognisbale names in football come through our coaching doors, and we're in season three and play on plastic.

whereas in mls, a GM absolutely has to be on top of the quirky and ridiculous mls rules and procedures. You couldn't take a good PL chairman, for example, and stick him into mls. he'd go nuts and be a complete screw up. mo, for any other complaints people may throw at him, clearly knows the mls system inside out and is astute at getting the most out of it, and the draft. those are key considerations for an mls GM. and because of that, the list of people to replace him with is pretty limited. other GM's can't just be nabbed at will from within MLS, especially if they are doing well with their current club.

this is why none of the calls for suggested replacements in this thread have been answered, they have ALL been dodged. if people call for replacement players, you get pages and pages of answers and suggestions. same goes for replacement coaches, although not quite as voluminously. but we've not had a single replacement GM name touted. why? because the list is very, very thin. that, coupled with mo's ability to work the mls system and draft, is the primary reason he has supporters on these boards.

change for the sake of it is a bad idea, especially when there's no obvious way to improve through that change. hence, Mo gets the nod for the time being.

Belfast_Boy
07-31-2009, 09:13 AM
I think he's done a good job, perhaps not great, but unless I could do better I should shut the fuck up. he's building a programme from the ground up and has done a good job. he knows the league has to change and is working towards that to help us get better quality players. he's developing a youth programme that's going to be our future.

TFC Tifoso
07-31-2009, 09:26 AM
yes and no. i see your point and it makes sense, of course. but coaches are ten a penny in some respects, we've already had some reasonably recognisbale names in football come through our coaching doors, and we're in season three and play on plastic.

whereas in mls, a GM absolutely has to be on top of the quirky and ridiculous mls rules and procedures. You couldn't take a good PL chairman, for example, and stick him into mls. he'd go nuts and be a complete screw up. mo, for any other complaints people may throw at him, clearly knows the mls system inside out and is astute at getting the most out of it, and the draft. those are key considerations for an mls GM. and because of that, the list of people to replace him with is pretty limited. other GM's can't just be nabbed at will from within MLS, especially if they are doing well with their current club.

this is why none of the calls for suggested replacements in this thread have been answered, they have ALL been dodged. if people call for replacement players, you get pages and pages of answers and suggestions. same goes for replacement coaches, although not quite as voluminously. but we've not had a single replacement GM name touted. why? because the list is very, very thin. that, coupled with mo's ability to work the mls system and draft, is the primary reason he has supporters on these boards.

change for the sake of it is a bad idea, especially when there's no obvious way to improve through that change. hence, Mo gets the nod for the time being.

How do you know this as fact? As far as I'm concerned, anybody with half a football brain would be able to wrap their head around a concept like a salary cap or allocation money. Us as supporters have a decent handle on it (not toally though), and I really think that someone who would make this their job would probably take the time to figure it out. Besides, for all this cornucopia of knowledge that Mo has of MLS what has he managed to win as a coach/GM......zero, zip, zilch, niente, nada, biscuit...no MLS Cups, and no Supporters Shields.

As far as naming replacements go, well, i'd take a guess and say that people can't name a replacement because they're simply not aware of people who are available. Players and coaches are people we see every time we watch the TV, which is why they are all aware to us, but I don't know many people who can rattle off the names of executives and GM's from teams around the world, many of whom are by and large invisible and behnd the scenes......and has many have said before, its not our job to find a replacement, but as a customer of a product it is our job to give feedback on it.

Hitcho
07-31-2009, 09:34 AM
How do you know this as fact? As far as I'm concerned, anybody with half a football brain would be able to wrap their head around a concept like a salary cap or allocation money. Us as supporters have a decent handle on it (not toally though), and I really think that someone who would make this their job would probably take the time to figure it out. Besides, for all this cornucopia of knowledge that Mo has of MLS what has he managed to win as a coach/GM......zero, zip, zilch, niente, nada, biscuit...no MLS Cups, and no Supporters Shields.

As far as naming replacements go, well, i'd take a guess and say that people can't name a replacement because they're simply not aware of people who are available. Players and coaches are people we see every time we watch the TV, which is why they are all aware to us, but I don't know many people who can rattle off the names of executives and GM's from teams around the world, many of whom are by and large invisible and behnd the scenes......and has many have said before, its not our job to find a replacement, but as a customer of a product it is our job to give feedback on it.

Fair points, although I still don't think it's mo's job to "win" stuff. And even if it was, there are only two trophies up for grabs in an MLS season and in season one they were both beyond an expansion team. Season two wasn't going to be much better, although we had a dim hope of the play offs which was eventually killed off by the dallas game. This season the SS is beyond us but no-one can realistically set out aimng to win that in a league which has so much emphasis on parity - look how KK began their season - but the play offs and therefore a possible MLS Cup are still within reach. The squad is now stronger than it has ever been in my book, and if we can get everyone fit then a great end of season run is a realistic possibility.

So, even if Mo is there to "win stuff", what has he really missed out on as of right now? Nothing in season one, the playoffs (just) in season two and that's about it so far. We're now Canadian Champs and only missed that last season by the narowest of margins. Demanding success so quickly is unrealstic in my book, but north american fans seem to be much more impatient than english ones do, so that could be a cultural thing i guess.

v00d00daddy
07-31-2009, 09:39 AM
Mo is a direct "mirror" of this team as a whole.

At times he's made good decisions. (ie: Gerba, DeRo)

At time's they've been terrible. (ie: Cunningham and several others)

Most of the time he's been middle of the road.

He's good at drafting. He's also good at acquiring allocation funds but this is a must for him because he's bad at valuing players. (there are a few in red being paid too much for their input to the team)

Anyways...he is what he is. A middle of the road GM who isn't a total failure but has never won anything either.

Does this warrant a contract extension? Some say yes and some say no.

He is what Robbo and Brennan are as players. A heart warming story due to his history as a player, a guy with lots of heart, but, in the end....not much.

Anybody gonna line up to offer Robbo and Brennan extensions?

Why give Mo an extension half way through this season. Reward him when he's accomplished something. If he doesn't achieve....don't reward him.

ua-kozak_TFC
07-31-2009, 09:42 AM
You've missed the boat completely dude. Mo is NOT the manager (in the traditional meaning of the word in football rather than the north american meaning) nor is he the coach. I actually said in my post he made a shitty coach in season one, no-one really debates that. But his role is very different as GM and in THAT role he's doing well enough in my book.

To answer some of your more specific points:

- i did NOT make the point of great player = great coach, i said he knows more about football than most of the people on these boards, because the poster i quoted claimed the reverse. can you seriously tell me that your average canadian fan knows more about football than Mo does? that's what i was disputing.
...You are talking like if the only option to replace MO is on these BOARDs... that is rediculous.. Sigi was a NCAA coach... with no professional soccer experience... yet he has done damn well.. My argument is that there are a lot of people who would gladly take the job and be more suitable to take his position with experience in the field... Go look at College soccer or USL There is no one in my mind but In my opinion Mo could be replaced with someone better...
Lean

- the end result has been down ot the coaches to achieve. Mo has put togethr what is now a pretty tasty squad. it;s not his job to win games with that squad, it's his job to build a good squad, the coaches then work with that sqaud. so if you're looking to blame someone for the results, you're blaming the wrong position. admittely if Mo builds a shit squad then the coach has no chance. but right now we have a decent sqaud.

Are you nucking futs ??? We have NO depth... We run OUT on allocation...Defence sucks the midfield and Offence inconsistent...
We shall see how good of a drafter he is now that next year and year after we won;t have a lot of top picks.... It;s easy to be "good" with as many top picks as mo has had... About drafting altidore in second round.. that's just Luck just as Pontious was drafrted by DC late yet he has score almost as many goal as OUR top strickers and being a rookie...

- the empty three spots or whatever it si is pretty meaningless. they accounted for the worst few players on the squad (bar sutton who was just too expensive to be a sub). if you look at the worst few players on any MLS squad they typically add very little to the mix. we would not be much stronger with the likes of smith back on the roster, and the cap means you have to have weak players to fill up all spots.

- You're comparing Sigi to Mo? One is a coach, the other is a GM. :facepalm:

And, just like all the other posters on here slamming Mo, you have neglected to list any decent replacement who could do everything Mo does and more in order to improve on our current GM. How come no-one has come up with a single name? Shitting on a guy's record is easy from the comfort of your armchair, but all you've come up with as substance to support it so far is a criticism of the coaches (not Mo's job) and not much else, including someone who could do better.

I am not MLSE Chair... if that was my job... I would do my research and find a number of suitable candidates that would gladly take his job and do a better job than he does at a fraction of the cost...

I stress again (and I don;t thbink you read this in my previous post) I am not really Mo's biggest fan, but you have tolook at this dispassionately, which I don;t think many people on here do. The bottom line is, unless someone is identified to come in and do better, why the hell are we going to sack Mo and bring in someone worse? What's the sense in that? If there are good reasons for him to go, and someone better can be found, then i would support that. Until someone comes up with a coherent se of arguments on that front though, I think we're better off keeping Mo in place.
You will never know who will do a better job that is never a sure thing... you can only try... But AS far as I feel we got NOTHING to loose by trying to replace MO NOTHING... you all speaking like if Mo leaves we will not make the play offs next year... Well let me break it to you we havenl;t made play offs in 2 years and as it is right now its very difficult that we'll make it this year as well...

ua-kozak_TFC
07-31-2009, 09:48 AM
i'll say it again, in my opinion it is not down to Mo to get results on the pitch. the anti-Mo brigade can;t have their cake and eat it. o the one hand they say he's a crap coach and should stay away from first team affairs. on the other, they say HE'S not getting results on the pitch. it;s the coach's job to get the results out of the squad. it;s the GM's job to build a decent sqqud for the coach to work with. at least, that's how i see it, i may be wrong.
...You are talking like Cummins is just screwing everything up.... I think he;s actually doing a better job than Carver... The truth is he doesn;t have a lot to play with...
Mo's job to bring players and give the team depth in the bench adress the teams most pressin concern...AND HE HAS NOT DONE THAT...How can you not see that?

TFC Tifoso
07-31-2009, 09:52 AM
Fair points, although I still don't think it's mo's job to "win" stuff. And even if it was, there are only two trophies up for grabs in an MLS season and in season one they were both beyond an expansion team. Season two wasn't going to be much better, although we had a dim hope of the play offs which was eventually killed off by the dallas game. This season the SS is beyond us but no-one can realistically set out aimng to win that in a league which has so much emphasis on parity - look how KK began their season - but the play offs and therefore a possible MLS Cup are still within reach. The squad is now stronger than it has ever been in my book, and if we can get everyone fit then a great end of season run is a realistic possibility.

So, even if Mo is there to "win stuff", what has he really missed out on as of right now? Nothing in season one, the playoffs (just) in season two and that's about it so far. We're now Canadian Champs and only missed that last season by the narowest of margins. Demanding success so quickly is unrealstic in my book, but north american fans seem to be much more impatient than english ones do, so that could be a cultural thing i guess.

The second and last bolded points are the whole foundation of the argument IMO.....a league like MLS which has parity also has less of a need to "build to something" as a result of this parity (see Seattle, Year 1). There's the possibility to be an instant success, so to speak, because there is little between the teams.

Year 1 I could even write off, because I accept the fact that this was a club that started from nothing, but by now, with the talent TFC has, there should be something more than a .500 team spinning its wheels, with 3 empty roster spots, little depth (other than forward), and enough international players to throw this team for a loop if the perfect storm happens (like the Chivas game last year). I don't fault Mo for acquiring players that are good enough to play for their national teams, but we have no cover for it......that falls on Mo.

I just don't think Mo is building towards a system, but rather he is picking up iindividual players and hoping they fit in......for proof of this, just look at the high turnoveer of our starting XI through the first 3 seasons.....many new faces in there.

And if its not Mo's job to build a team to "win stuff" then who's is it?!

Hitcho
07-31-2009, 10:18 AM
The second and last bolded points are the whole foundation of the argument IMO.....a league like MLS which has parity also has less of a need to "build to something" as a result of this parity (see Seattle, Year 1). There's the possibility to be an instant success, so to speak, because there is little between the teams.

well then who is the failure down to? Mo or the coaches? both together? It's a fair point but I don't think it can be laid at Mo's feet alone.


Year 1 I could even write off, because I accept the fact that this was a club that started from nothing, but by now, with the talent TFC has, there should be something more than a .500 team spinning its wheels, with 3 empty roster spots, little depth (other than forward), and enough international players to throw this team for a loop if the perfect storm happens (like the Chivas game last year). I don't fault Mo for acquiring players that are good enough to play for their national teams, but we have no cover for it......that falls on Mo.

Again, fair point, but I'd add that Mo is pretty limited in who he can get to come to TFC and has been since he started in season one. So, if he gets the chance to bring in solid internationals (by mls standards) is it worth acquiring them and accepting the national team call ups as a consequence? I'd say yes, because the alternative is bring in lesser players who will be available for all games. That doesn;t improve our current position. Don't forget that TFC is working under a unique set fo rules in the league when it comes to international players, which in my book is quite a burden on us - if you let us into the league and take the fee, then eradicate the distinction between canadian and us players for league designation purposes (not government work permit sutff, i know that cannot be got round so easily).


I just don't think Mo is building towards a system, but rather he is picking up iindividual players and hoping they fit in......for proof of this, just look at the high turnoveer of our starting XI through the first 3 seasons.....many new faces in there.

again, fair point re high turnover, but a lot of that is down to having to cobble togther whatever the hell he could in the first season or two just to get a squad together. there was also the issue of getting players in with a view to trading them on to teams who wanted or needed them more. now we have a much better squad and i think the turnover rate will drop dramatically, because the need for it has gone. the average age of the players is also coming down, another factor that contributd to high turnover, but again, Mo had to do that to get a squad togeher in the first couple of seasons.


And if its not Mo's job to build a team to "win stuff" then who's is it?!

agreed that it is mo's job to build a team to wnn stuff, that's clear. but what is aid was it;s not his job to then go on and do the actual winning, that;s what the coaches are for. Mo is getting blmed for his perceived failures as well as those of others, because he's the GM not the coach.

TFC07
07-31-2009, 10:28 AM
LOL @ Mo's draft history. His draft history as a TFC GM hasn't been that great. Edu was clear cut number 1 pick, so there's no need to give him credit for that. (That is like giving Cavs credit for drafting LeBron James...not that I am saying Edu is on James' level...lol). Frei only pick he should get some credit, but then again, do goalkeepers normally get picked in first round a lot?

Seattle, New York and New England play on plastic pitch too and they done much better job of signing quality players than TFC.

End of the day, it's all about results. So far, Mo has failed! Carver was crap and CC looks like a crap coach as well. Most of the players he bought in were busts. Currently, we got like 3 roster spots opened which Mo has failed to get players.

BTW, DeRo wanted to come back home! He pretty much forced Houston to trade him to Toronto. (that is why Houston got so little in return in DeRo trade). So there's no need to give Mo credit for bringing DeRo home.

If we don't make it to the playoffs and don't qualify for CCL group stage, then Mo should just leave.

TFC Tifoso
07-31-2009, 11:14 AM
well then who is the failure down to? Mo or the coaches? both together? It's a fair point but I don't think it can be laid at Mo's feet alone.



Again, fair point, but I'd add that Mo is pretty limited in who he can get to come to TFC and has been since he started in season one. So, if he gets the chance to bring in solid internationals (by mls standards) is it worth acquiring them and accepting the national team call ups as a consequence? I'd say yes, because the alternative is bring in lesser players who will be available for all games. That doesn;t improve our current position. Don't forget that TFC is working under a unique set fo rules in the league when it comes to international players, which in my book is quite a burden on us - if you let us into the league and take the fee, then eradicate the distinction between canadian and us players for league designation purposes (not government work permit sutff, i know that cannot be got round so easily).



again, fair point re high turnover, but a lot of that is down to having to cobble togther whatever the hell he could in the first season or two just to get a squad together. there was also the issue of getting players in with a view to trading them on to teams who wanted or needed them more. now we have a much better squad and i think the turnover rate will drop dramatically, because the need for it has gone. the average age of the players is also coming down, another factor that contributd to high turnover, but again, Mo had to do that to get a squad togeher in the first couple of seasons.



agreed that it is mo's job to build a team to wnn stuff, that's clear. but what is aid was it;s not his job to then go on and do the actual winning, that;s what the coaches are for. Mo is getting blmed for his perceived failures as well as those of others, because he's the GM not the coach.

1) I think the blame falls mostly on Mo, since he has been here the longest and is supposed to understand the ins and outs of the league, and in the grand scheme of things some will have to fall on Carver as well - as far as Year 2 is concerned - in his naiveity and arrogance in thinking he could turn the league upside down because of his past, then leaving the team high and dry this year after some work had probably gone in to make this "his team" by Mo. Cummins has little blame for me due to his age and lack of experience....this really is a learning process for him, and I think that although he has made some mistakes as well that he is honestly trying his hardest here.

2) you make a fair point about acquiring good international players and the consequences of it, but the most successful teams in this league (ie. Chicago, Houston, DC, Columbus) do not follow this method, and rather choose to build a complete team, rather than a collection of talented, but individual players, something I think Mo has done. And again, this is something I think that a person with knowledge of the league should've been able to identify.....for me it does not necessarily take a lot of talent to win in this league, but rather it takes some talent and a hell of a lot of teamwork.
Also, yes, TFC needs to fill a quota of Canadian content, but I don't think this has had as much of a burden on TFC that everybody thinks.....being the only Canadiian team in MLS, they don't have to share these players with any other teams, and we basically have the ability to pick the cream of Canadian talent. This rule I think must be revisited once Vancouver and eventually Montreal come in though (perhaps make all Canadian and US players count as domestic).

3) this goes back to the belief that Mo brings in individuals as opposed to a team, but that is merely an opinion, but also it is one that holds up. Players like DeRo, Guevara, and Vitti are fantastic skill players all with the ability to be "the man" for their team.....but collectively it might be too much of a good thing.....to have to many players on the field at the same time that want to be "the man".
Also, a lot of these players that came in and were traded were sent away for stuff like allocation money or a draft pick, basically an unknown, and something that does not lend itself to a specific plan but rather a "wait and see what we can get" approach.

4) but it was Mo's job to hire these coaches.....one who picked up his ball and went home (Carver), and another who is only 37 years old and we cannot really make fair jodgement either way so far......it is just that to me there seems to be no direction, no plan, and it is Mo's responsibility to have both direction and plan.

TFC07
07-31-2009, 11:26 AM
Let's hire Bryan Colangelo. It seems like he is only good GM in Toronto.

AL-MO
07-31-2009, 11:28 AM
I think its pretty straight forward. Wait until the end of the season, if its been a success (we make the playoffs) then he stays. If not he shouldn't get an extension.

v00d00daddy
07-31-2009, 12:24 PM
I think its pretty straight forward. Wait until the end of the season, if its been a success (we make the playoffs) then he stays. If not he shouldn't get an extension.

Yup.

Hitcho
07-31-2009, 12:34 PM
Tifoso - all fair points, thanks for the sensible posts!

Cheers

Hitcho

Cashcleaner
07-31-2009, 12:41 PM
I was just curious. Everyone calls for him to be removed (which is a "staffing solution") while no one proposes who would replace him.

I guess "supporting" allows you to bitch about the manager but proposing someone else is "not a supporter's job" :rolleyes:

Again, if I were on the TFC payroll and responsible for figuring out hiring and firings, then I would. I'm a fan and can just see what's going on with my own eyes. I'm not going to do someone's work for them.

Rawkus_420
07-31-2009, 12:46 PM
Keep Mo and Cummins....are you not happy with the players he's brought in without even using a DP spot? Cummins has filled in great for Carver.....we've done nothing but improve this year, I hardly see how getting rid of anyone would better us for next year, as a 3rd year team we've come a long way from what we were, and you can basically hand that credit to MO.

TFC Tifoso
07-31-2009, 12:47 PM
Tifoso - all fair points, thanks for the sensible posts!

Cheers

Hitcho

you're welcome, and ditto.....cheers, dude!

of course a win tomorrow will be a nice tonic to all this banter and the poor result from Wednesday, but in any case I don't think any decision - especially one to re-sign Mo - should be made until the season is over and his performance from this year can be fully evaluated.

perhaps the biggest concern for me out of all of this is that the people above MoJo (like Tom Anselmi) know even less about the sport, and what it takes to build a team, and that they will be satisfied so long as this team doesn't totally shit the bed....and that is our job as supporters aside from being behind the boys; to keep the FO honest and committed to building a winner....good businessmen, yes......good sportsmen....not so much. But that is another topic for another day.

:canada:

Hitcho
07-31-2009, 02:45 PM
perhaps the biggest concern for me out of all of this is that the people above MoJo (like Tom Anselmi) know even less about the sport, and what it takes to build a team, and that they will be satisfied so long as this team doesn't totally shit the bed....and that is our job as supporters aside from being behind the boys; to keep the FO honest and committed to building a winner....good businessmen, yes......good sportsmen....not so much. But that is another topic for another day.

:canada:

I dunno, i think it's a pretty valid addition to the thread to be honest. I mean, if that's the reason they are resigning him then it is all very, very wrong in terms of reasoning if not outcome. Kinda worrying thought actually! :picard:

Belfast_Boy
07-31-2009, 02:54 PM
I dunno, i think it's a pretty valid addition to the thread to be honest. I mean, if that's the reason they are resigning him then it is all very, very wrong in terms of reasoning if not outcome. Kinda worrying thought actually! :picard:
I agree, remember these are the same douchbags that have messed up the Leafs!