Do not trade Marvell, Vitti, or the training staff...

[FluSH]

Just fcuking RELAX... We need to trade some RU's to Bigsoccer that's what I believe we need to do.

Yesterday's loss was heartbreaking indeed... but there is a bigger game and bigger battle on Wednesday to a side most of you haven't cared to analyze...

Take the hit and move on...


(p.s. and yes I know Vitti is on loan...)

[Marco2K]

I agree with Flush.

The Crew have our number, and it seems not matter what we do TFC takes it in the ass!


Now Wednesday`s game is gonna be fucking HUGE!!

[DOMIN8R]

You don't need to start a thread stating the obvious, Mr F. The silent majority on this board may not be evident. But most who know how to tell time pay little or no attention to all the silly posts that call for people's heads each time the team falls short of perfection.

[FluSH]

I agree with Flush.

The Crew have our number, and it seems not matter what we do TFC takes it in the ass!


Now Wednesday`s game is gonna be fucking HUGE!!


Not sure if many of you have seen this:


jk8qSqOo1vo



Best of luck to the supporters going down on Aug 4th... I wish I could be there.


(P.S. and parkdale where is our hype up video)

[Damien]

Plus this picture is worth 1000 words...

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20090725/crew_80084.jpg

[FluSH]

You don't need to start a thread stating the obvious, Mr F. The silent majority on this board may not be evident. But most who know how to tell time pay little or no attention to all the silly posts that call for people's heads each time the team falls short of perfection.


At times the obvious must be grabbed like a yellow page book and hit with over the head of some people.

[bhoybobby]

Why mention Wynne & Vitti in the same sentence.

Vitti is a cracking footballer, Marvell, well, he just doesn't get it. Superb athlete but should not be playing fullback on an mls team.

As for the coaching staff, you can make chicken salad from chicken shit

[DOMIN8R]

^^^^ I rest my case.

[bhoybobby]

^^^^ I rest my case.


Weak case, you'd lose every time:scarf:

[Beach_Red]

Weak case, you'd lose every time:scarf:


It was probably a joke because you made a typo and wrote, "can make chicken salad from chicken shit," instead of can't. But we know what you mean.

But coaching has to count for something, doesn't it? Do you think the right players were on at the end of the game?

[SilverSamurai]

Plus this picture is worth 1000 words...

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20090725/crew_80084.jpg
LOL.

It's 1 game people. Relax. All about the Champions League for me. The further TFC goes in the Champions League, the better the team will get in the long run.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Dichio hoist the MLS Cup at BMO, but I'd place greater priority on the Champions League.
Also don't forget how many games the squad's played in recent weeks, but fire the coaching staff? :picard:

[bhoybobby]

It was probably a joke because you made a typo and wrote, "can make chicken salad from chicken shit," instead of can't. But we know what you mean.

But coaching has to count for something, doesn't it? Do you think the right players were on at the end of the game?

No, but what do I know.

I'd play Danny ahead of stiiffy Gerba any day. Gerba, can't turn, has a so so touch, has no speed, doesn't look to be good in the air.

He's a bull in a China shop, he'll do o.k against weaker teams, but IMHO is not much of an upgrade. Any decent team will nullify his limited skills.:scarf:

That been said, we're too thin on talent to do much. Too many passengers in key areas, no real depth. Same old story

[Pachuco]

No, but what do I know.

I'd play Danny ahead of stiiffy Gerba any day. Gerba, can't turn, has a so so touch, has no speed, doesn't look to be good in the air.

He's a bull in a China shop, he'll do o.k against weaker teams, but IMHO is not much of an upgrade. Any decent team will nullify his limited skills.:scarf:

That been said, we're too thin on talent to do much. Too many passengers in key areas, no real depth. Same old story

You are on a role man. Atleast wait until Gerba DOESN'T score in a game before you bash him. Hey, I don't completely disagree with you about Gerba's assessment. But he scored, and that's what he was brought here to do.

If he plays like shit every game, and he scores a goal every game, you wouldn't take that? What do you want? 11 Barretts on the field that work their ass off but couldn't fucking hit the net 2 yards from it? It's all about balance man.

[Pachuco]

Oh Flush, I completely agree with your sentiments about Vitti and Wynne. I mean, I think people make the assumption that if we let Vitti go, then we'll sign Ronaldo. Are you kidding? if we let Vitti go, we are back at trying to find an offensive midfielder. For all we know, we end up with another Ricketts or even worse, we end up with no one in that position until July of next year based on Mo's track record.

And for people to say trade Wynne, I ask you this. How the hell can you make such a statement when you have no idea what's on the table? If Wynne fetches Kenny Cooper, then sure, trade him, most people would agree with that. But if he fetches Johan Smith, would you say trade him?

[H Bomb]

I'm with Dom, this thread only gives the haters another room to hate. Saying these things is like saying lets not disolve the team, anyone with a brain knows these things:rolleyes:

[Stryker]

Sorry Flush but for us to hang onto a starting defender who's a huge defencive liability and has a greatly over inflated value in the league is beyond reason. We already have his replacement on the team in Attakora and a bandage replacement in Cronin if nessacary.
Trade Wynne before everyone else catches on and he's not worth a nickel.

[FluSH]

I'm with Dom, this thread only gives the haters another room to hate. Saying these things is like saying lets not disolve the team, anyone with a brain knows these things:rolleyes:

How many people really have brains on this forum...

[TorontoBlades]

You don't need to start a thread stating the obvious, Mr F. The silent majority on this board may not be evident. But most who know how to tell time pay little or no attention to all the silly posts that call for people's heads each time the team falls short of perfection.

+1 Thanks

[Stryker]

How many people really have brains on this forum...

Hmmm. Thanks flush. Didn't realize a difference of opinion on a players worth legally qualified me as mentally handicapped. I better run to the Transportation office and grab my parking placard.

[FluSH]

Hmmm. Thanks flush.

well to answer your question:




Sorry Flush but for us to hang onto a starting defender who's a huge defencive liability and has a greatly over inflated value in the league is beyond reason. We already have his replacement on the team in Attakora and a bandage replacement in Cronin if nessacary.
Trade Wynne before everyone else catches on and he's not worth a nickel


You can't simply say trade X player if there is nothing concrete on the table... who are we going to trade X player for? This is not a league were we simply have anyone and everyone we can choose at our disposal...

Marvel was riding the plank during the confedarations cup... give him some time to adjust... his pace is still top in the league... and it was evident with 2 dangerous runs he did yesterday...

[Brooker]

Just fcuking RELAX... We need to trade some RU's to Bigsoccer that's what I believe we need to do.


agreed. but can we also trade some "official members" too? 25 dollars doesn't = intelligence. :D

[FluSH]

Hmmm. Thanks flush. Didn't realize a difference of opinion on a players worth legally qualified me as mentally handicapped. I better run to the Tranportation office and grab my parking placard.

I've answered your question... but you need to state your case better than trade X player before he looses his skill and becomes wortheless... in that case it would be HALF our team.

Trade for who in the MLS?

[FluSH]

...and for everyone who says I shouldn't have started this thread becasue the silent majority knows what's up...

Have you met me? I am not silent at all...

-FluSH

[TorontoBlades]

^^^^ I rest my case.

Every one is entitled to support the team they best way they see fit.

[Rudi]

No, but what do I know.

I'd play Danny ahead of stiiffy Gerba any day. Gerba, can't turn, has a so so touch, has no speed, doesn't look to be good in the air.

He's a bull in a China shop, he'll do o.k against weaker teams, but IMHO is not much of an upgrade. Any decent team will nullify his limited skills.:scarf:

You're a fucking genius.

He did "o.k." against the reigning MLS champion and current East Conference leader whilst being completely new to the team. How do you think he'll do against weaker teams?

He scored against Mexico in two different games in World Cup Qualifying last year. Do they qualify as a "decent" team that wasn't able to nullify his limited skills?

He's not the second coming, but he's not total trash either. He scores goals, and from yesterday onward I'll be willing to bet he scores the most goals on the team for the rest of the year as long as he stays injury-free. At worst he'll be second to DeRo.

[Stryker]

Chicago covetted him last year and they have what's argueabley considered the deepest team in the league. Mo knows how to play the game. He knows how to quietly let word slip out that they're willing to part ways with Wynne for the right offer.

[FluSH]

Chicago covetted him last year and they have what's argueabley considered the deepest team in the league. Mo knows how to play the game. He knows how to quietly let word slip out that they're willing to part ways with Wynne for the right offer.

So you're saying give up Wynne for an undisclosed $$$CASH$$$ amount?

We have yet to use the EDU Money!!! WTF are we going to do if Nana gets injured... in the playoffs or if God permits we make it to the next leg in the CCL!!!

Money is no good to me if we aren't using it.... how much is it earning in their savings account 1.25% a year?

[Stryker]

So you're saying give up Wynne for an undisclosed $$$CASH$$$ amount?

We have yet to use the EDU Money!!! WTF are we going to do if Nana gets injured... in the playoffs or if God permits we make it to the next leg in the CCL!!!

Money is no good to me if we aren't using it.... how much is it earning in their savings account 1.25% a year?
How do you take "undisclosed cash amount" from "deepest team in the league"?
Wait... who doesn't have a brain between us?

[FluSH]

How do you take "undisclosed cash amount" from "deepest team in the league"?
Wait... who doesn't have a brain between us?

Because you have YET... to name a player to trade him for...

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

sad result yesterday but NOT the end of the world...we need to toghten up at the back a bit more...we played a really decent road match for the first time in a year or so...bring on the Islanders.

[FluSH]

I'm still waiting...

[FluSH]

...and waiting...

[Nuvinho]

The only thing, I will complain about is why is Serioux playing at LB? I think his worse performances this year has come playing that position.

[FluSH]

This is what I thought... hypothetical arguements that don't have much substance... I'll help you... let's just trade Wynne for the Whole continent of South America... (I mean why limit ourselves to Chicago).

[FluSH]

http://flower.localstreet.com/iTunnel/l/ieeavssl/flower-sample-localstreet/map/south_america.gif

[Stryker]

I'm still waiting...

Jesus flush there are lots good players on Chicago we could try to swing for wynne.
Both offensive and defencive. We could fish around to see if other teams are interested, and if so, who are they willing to part with.

What are you 8 years old? Do you need me to draw out the whole scenerio out in crayon for you. Do your own research, look at roster lists Einstein.

[FluSH]

Jesus flush there are lots good players on Chicago we could try to swing for wynne.
Both offensive and defencive. We could fish around to see if other teams are interested, and if so, who are they willing to part with.


Stryker... I've asked you to make a solid case... you obviously want to avoid making a stance. and I'm the 8yr old guy I guess...

Is this the first time you've followed sports? Have you ever played with RealGM? Make a case and maybe I wouldn't be posting about dumbass comments... if you make a valid case I might just agree with you instead of saying lots of guys in Chicago...

[Yohan]

I've answered your question... but you need to state your case better than trade X player before he looses his skill and becomes wortheless... in that case it would be HALF our team.

Trade for who in the MLS?
you asked, i shall deliver ;)

list of good fullbacks in MLS that can defend. may have to give more, or get more pending on player. note that this does not take into account a team's willingness to trade the player

-Tim Ward (CHI): 6'0" RB who is only 22. Been bounced around a bit after leaving college to sign a Generation Adidas contract, but finally found his place at RB in Chicago defence and is having a breakout year. You may remember him from Chicago game at BMO where he had an exceptional game for the Fire

-Jonathan Bornstein (CHV): a converted striker who is now a mainstay in USMNT in LB. still has a lot of attacking flair, but is more defensively responsible than Wynne, though prone to occassional lapse of concentration. age 25. can also play LW

-Geoff Cameron (HOU): a 3rd rd draft pick that cemented his spot as one of the best defenders in MLS by getting an All Stars call up. versatile. can play pretty much all positions in midfield and defence. given that he makes league minimum, a raise can entice him to come to toronto

-AJ de la Garza (LAG): a 2nd rounder turned out to be having an excellent season. in his rookie year and still learning the game, but shows poise and calm at RB. had an excellent game vs AC Milan in friendly few weeks ago, shutting down Ronaldinho for a long stretches of the game, though he was at fault for failing to mark Inzaghi for Pippo's goal. a starter in Arena's revamped LA defence which has been solid all season. he's cheap, and has potential to grow into a solid MLS defender

-Chris Albright (NER): one of best RBs in MLS. 30 yrs old. has plenty of MLS and USMNT experience. won't easily be bossed around with a 6'1", 185lb body. another attacker converted into a fullback. been injured most of this season however, and will be fighting Alston to get his place back

-Kevin Alston (NER): a rookie getting a lot of mins due to injury to first choice RB Albright, however he made the most of it. so much that NE isn't really missing Albright in defence. 21 yrs old, and if he keeps up his performance, NE will face a tough choice whether to keep him, or trade him.

-Zach Scott (SEA): an USL veteran making the transition to MLS. an MLS quality defender who was USL Sounder's best defender for many years. a defence first fullback who is consistent. age 29.

[FluSH]

^^^
At least someone is making valid points now... I will take a look at your options shortly... I'm guessing this is for Wynne?

also this is a huge X factor:

note that this does not take into account a team's willingness to trade the player

[ua-kozak_TFC]

Just fcuking RELAX... We need to trade some RU's to Bigsoccer that's what I believe we need to do.

Yesterday's loss was heartbreaking indeed... but there is a bigger game and bigger battle on Wednesday to a side most of you haven't cared to analyze...

Take the hit and move on...


(p.s. and yes I know Vitti is on loan...)
Can we trade MO?? please...

[AL-MO]

Thanks Yohan :D

[Yohan]

^^^
I'm guessing this is for Wynne?
yes


also this is a huge X factor:

note that this does not take into account a team's willingness to trade the player
there are couple of players that might be harder to get, but I don't think any of these players are out of reach (then again, after DeRo trade, I don't think any player in MLS is an 'untouchable')

given that Wynne does have a lot of upsides, with huge athleticism and his offensive game is growing, plus USMNT call ups, and MoJo's mad snake oil selling skillz, I think a lot of GMs would be willing to listen for offers

plus for a lot of players, TFC would be shedding some salaries.

Wynne: 57,000 base, 150k w/ compensation

Ward: 45k
Bornstein: 90k
Cameron: 35k
de la Garza: 36k
Albright: 176k
Alston: 55k, 104k w/ compensation
Scott: 40k

[Beach_Red]

Can we trade MO?? please...

Yes, there are 6 teams doing worse than we are, they would likely take him in a trade but I don't think we'd want their managers in return. It's too bad Sigi Schmidt was willing to change teams after last season and TFC didn't go after him. Or even his assistant who's now running Columbus. Wake Forrest seems to be doing a good job developing players and winning games, some good MLS coaches have come from NCAA, maybe we could get whoever is running that team?

[FluSH]

Marvell Wynne
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=75590&cc=5901


vs


Tim Ward
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=56994&cc=5901





You're right... Ward has been bounced around a bit... on paper Wynne is still the better defender... more experienced even. Ward does ring a bell when he played at BMO... Trading Wynne for Ward who hails from Chicago - a divisional contender would be very risky in my opinion... Chitown is already in the playoffs... they'll make it through... giving Wynne for Ward... I don't think so... it's too much risk on our side... way too much to take this deep in the season.



NRNH5yKhXZw


Remember this.... from 1:54

[Yohan]

Or even his assistant who's now running Columbus.
so many Crew supporters are after his head esp earlier in the season. half a season doesn't mean you're a good manager. plus he's got strong ties with Crew organization so i doubt he'd have left so easily

Wake Forrest seems to be doing a good job developing players and winning games, some good MLS coaches have come from NCAA, maybe we could get whoever is running that team?
Or, we'd get stuck with Hyndman. you know, that guy who's in charge of Dallas right now

[FluSH]

yes

there are couple of players that might be harder to get, but I don't think any of these players are out of reach (then again, after DeRo trade, I don't think any player in MLS is an 'untouchable')



You are underestimating how much of an effect DeRo had on the trade... the Dynamo coach went on public stating that DeRo had approched him for a possible trade to Toronto...

[Beach_Red]

yes

there are couple of players that might be harder to get, but I don't think any of these players are out of reach (then again, after DeRo trade, I don't think any player in MLS is an 'untouchable')




It was weird (and a little disappointing) to hear that it actually took a long time to get Garcia in a trade. How long would it take to get one of these guys? And why does it take so long? Are these teams really worried about "chemistry?"

[Beach_Red]

so many Crew supporters are after his head esp earlier in the season. half a season doesn't mean you're a good manager. plus he's got strong ties with Crew organization so i doubt he'd have left so easily

Or, we'd get stuck with Hyndman. you know, that guy who's in charge of Dallas right now

Oh, it's a risk for sure. I just think looking at NCAA for a coach might be a good idea, especially if draft picks are going to have more impact.

[Yohan]

Marvell Wynne
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=75590&cc=5901


vs


Tim Ward
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=56994&cc=5901





You're right... Ward has been bounced around a bit... on paper Wynne is still the better defender... more experienced even. Ward does ring a bell when he played at BMO... Trading Wynne for Ward who hails from Chicago - a divisional contender would be very risky in my opinion... Chitown is already in the playoffs... they'll make it through... giving Wynne for Ward... I don't think so... it's too much risk on our side... way too much to take this deep in the season.


i guess this depends on what you're looking for in a fullback.

i'm a defence first guy when it comes to what i want from a defender. i don't deny wynne's offensive skills, and the fact that his offensive game has improved lately. (he did get an assist on DeRo goal I think)

Tim Ward to me is a defence first guy. our back 4 is so shambolic right now and leaking so many goals that I think it needs major retooling.

what TFC don't really need is more offence. we are scoring enough goals, but we can't defend for shit.

so, giving up Wynne's offence for Ward's defence to me, is a worthwhile trade. if we can find a GM who is looking for more offensive option from the back, why not do this?

frankly I don't care about divisional rival thing, because our goal is to make the playoffs first.

[Yohan]

You are underestimating how much of an effect DeRo had on the trade... the Dynamo coach went on public stating that DeRo had approched him for a possible trade to Toronto...
oh, I understand DeRo factor.

I just think TFC absolutely fleeced houston on this deal

it's just not DeRo. seems great MLS players get dealt around the league a lot, and often for like, couple of draft picks and allocation. (yes, I understand salary cap forces a lot of trades)

[Yohan]

Oh, it's a risk for sure. I just think looking at NCAA for a coach might be a good idea, especially if draft picks are going to have more impact.
the most critical thing about being a manager in MLS is that you have to find someone who understands the byzantine MLS rules

so, even talented managers like Carlos Alberto Parreira, Carlos Queiroz and Walter Zenga who tried their hand in MLS left after a year, because they couldn't (or wouldn't) understand MLS rules

now NCAA coaches might understand MLS a little better, and might get more out of their rookies, but I'd argue that any good manager will get the most out of their players regardless of previous college experience (see Schmid in SEA, Arena in LAG this year)

there are some ex MLS managers with foreign experience out there, such as Colin Clarke (Puerto Rico Islanders), Steve Morrow (some FO job for Arsenal), etc

I think Cummins has done well so far to adjust to MLS, but he does have MoJo as GM. you can say whatever about MoJo, but MoJo does understand MLS, and how it works


It was weird (and a little disappointing) to hear that it actually took a long time to get Garcia in a trade. How long would it take to get one of these guys? And why does it take so long? Are these teams really worried about "chemistry?"

I really don't know how GMs work and how long deals take, but what I observe is that teams aren't afraid to cut players to make room for new players. This screws up team chemistry, but if GMs and managers think a new player is what they think is best for the situation, they are willing to take that chance

[TheRenter]

Just fcuking RELAX... We need to trade some RU's to Bigsoccer that's what I believe we need to do.

Yesterday's loss was heartbreaking indeed... but there is a bigger game and bigger battle on Wednesday to a side most of you haven't cared to analyze...

Take the hit and move on...


(p.s. and yes I know Vitti is on loan...)

hmmm, for the most part though,...i do tend to agree

however....i sort of resent this as i am not one of those people...., and since when did only members make all the sense (of things) on the board?

btw, vitti is on lo....ahhhh, nevermind:D

[Darlofletch]

This is the 5th time this season we've let in 3 goals away from home. In 8 games!

4 times out of 5 under Cummins.

But all us brainless registered users should till stop panicking right?

As the original post said, we have a big game coming up, would it not be an idea to try and figure out what's going wrong, so that when we go to PRI we don't let in a shitload of goals again and blow qualification?

It's obviously not an easy thing to magically fix, and who knows what we'd get in a trade for Wynne, but something somewhere needs to be done. Given that we're all just on the internet and not actually effecting anything at all, why not speculate?

[Sullivan]

Contracts that expire at the conclusion of this (2009) season include players drafted during the 2006 SuperDraft. Marvel was the # one selection, and signed on for 4 seasons. IIRC don't remember seeing he renewed or extended beyond.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_MLS_SuperDraft

Can't say which alumni of the 2006 draft have already re-upped and extended beyond to 2010, etc. But it's a starting point.

[Yohan]

Heath Pierce. USMNT LB current out of contract. Last club, Hansa Rostock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Pearce

Currently playing for US Gold Cup squad. Already 20 caps. 24 yrs old

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/66/united-states/2009/04/16/1211567/exclusive-usas-heath-pearce-i-need-to-be-playing

doesn't look like, he won't mind playing in MLS. could easily be one of best LBs in MLS

VtrPzMq2Zb0

Mo. GET ON THE HORN NOW

edit: on second thought, since he would be a returning USMNT player, he'd have to go through MLS allocation list. I believe Dallas is at top right now

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Just fcuking RELAX... We need to trade some RU's to Bigsoccer that's what I believe we need to do.

lol... Agreed 100%.

[mmmikey]

flush, take peace from the fact that no one on this board makes a decision and there is no way mo would give away what is clearly a huge asset in wynne that he could probably totally rip another team off with. say whatever u want about mo but he usually gets good value for any trade made. u can bet if he DID trade wynne, it would be for something good. but i doubt we will see wynne go anywhere this year.

at the same time.. u gotta take your own advice and relax. demanding repeatedly for specific deals and then ripping apart suggestions is being just as bad.

let's all breath and agree on one thing: at least we aren't complaining about goal scoring now!

[FluSH]

frankly I don't care about divisional rival thing, because our goal is to make the playoffs first.

WOW... how can you say this... Chicago right now has the spot that we covet... we need one of the top two spots in the East... that should be our mission... otherwise it's still a very tight race for the playoffs... we have the last spot as of yesterday by a marging of 2 points!

http://www.settingthetable.info/home.asp

Colorado has 4 tough games ahead... than 2 crucial ones back-2-back with us. After, that it should be gravy train for them...

[Dub Narcotic]

I was just going to post the Heath Pearce idea. Sign him, and move Brennan up to LM.

[RPB73]

Because you have YET... to name a player to trade him for...

Hainault from Houston

[Yohan]

WOW... how can you say this... Chicago right now has the spot that we covet... we need one of the top two spots in the East... that should be our mission... otherwise it's still a very tight race for the playoffs... we have the last spot as of yesterday by a marging of 2 points!

we're not going to get one of the top 2 spots in the east. our schedule is too tough for that

Chicago's home form may suck right now, but that's not going to last and their away form is too good. I'd say they already have a lock in one of the two top spots for East

also, dont worry about how much Wynne is going to help others, but worry about how much the other player in the trade is going to help TFC. it's kinda like hording all the players and not wanting to trade just because it might bite you in the end which to me is a silly approach for trade

[FluSH]

also, dont worry about how much Wynne is going to help others, but worry about how much the other player in the trade is going to help TFC. it's kinda like hording all the players and not wanting to trade just because it might bite you in the end which to me is a silly approach for trade

You do know that Garcia was brought in to shore up the back... this is in regards to getting more defensive vs. offensive. We have yet to get an offense that knows what is doing day-in-day out. Wynne has been away from TFC the longenst on International duty... and yet he is still tied for 2nd in Assists...

Trading for Ward is a straight NO for me... also you take a look at Wynne's Foul's committed and he ain't that bad (at least not the worse of the backline) for the minutes he's played...

[Yohan]

You do know that Garcia was brought in to shore up the back...
I still think Garcia can contribute to defence, but his lack of pace and having to try to cover up Wynne's fuck ups is making him not the solution in defence TFC is looking for right now

this is in regards to getting more defensive vs. offensive. We have yet to get an offense that knows what is doing day-in-day out. Wynne has been away from TFC the longenst on International duty... and yet he is still tied for 2nd in Assists...offence is not the problem this year. 5th in league right now, and 1 goal behind 3 teams tied for 2nd

but TFC is still leaking critical goals on defence, and that needs to be fixed ASAP.


Trading for Ward is a straight NO for me... also you take a look at Wynne's Foul's committed and he ain't that bad (at least not the worse of the backline) for the minutes he's played...Wynne gave up way too many penalties, plus been part of too many defence fuck ups for me be comfortable with him on defence

again, my philosophy is defence first for defenders, regardless of where you play on defence. wynne has shown very little improvement in defence skills 2 and half years he's been in TFC, and shows little sign of improving in that regard.

Tim Ward is not my first choice for a trade btw. I'd rather get Chris Albright or Geoff Cameron.
and if Mo did trade for Ward, I'd want more than Ward for Wynne. a draft pick plus some allocation at least

[FluSH]

I still think Garcia can contribute to defence, but his lack of pace and having to try to cover up Wynne's fuck ups is making him not the solution in defence TFC is looking for right now

.


Serioux and Nana are obviously lacking in pace.... (Serioux moreso because he is injured 3/4 of the time) Wynne and Nana are bascally the only two guys who have the pace in the backline... (Garcia covering up for Wynne???? They haven't played that many games together comeon...

And man you can't be pulling the penalties on Wynne... we all know that handball was B.S.

I'll take a look at your other choices later... however I still think It's risky to trade at this point in time....

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Wynne is one of our better players...if we need to get rid of the slackers lets get rid of Brennan..he is absolute terrible and has been for for quite a while..lets send him
on and get a replacement for him and name a new captain.

[Yohan]

Serioux and Nana are obviously lacking in pace.... (Serioux moreso because he is injured 3/4 of the time) Wynne and Nana are bascally the only two guys who have the pace in the backline... (Garcia covering up for Wynne???? They haven't played that many games together comeon...
Actually, Nana has decent pace

Garcia has been in the team since 10 June or something like that.


And man you can't be pulling the penalties on Wynne... we all know that handball was B.S.
if it's not penalties, it's being caught out of position when opposition left wing makes a run.

I still have nightmares thinking about SJ game when Huckerby pretty much had his way with Wynne, and Huckerby wasn't even 100% match fit. and this is not an isolated incident.
smart wingers in MLS are learning how to take advantage of Wynne's lack of positioning, and you don't need pace to beat Wynne. you just gotta be little bit more smarter than him

dear Mo. get Heath Pierce! (even if he had a bad game for US tonight, though the entire US backline was shambolic)

[Stryker]

One player I believe we get out of Chicago for Wynne would be 6'4" CB Soumare. The very same Soumare who held our most dangerous weapon DeRo in his pocket the entire game when we last played Chicago. A Soumare - Serioux pairing in the middle would make for a excellent start in repairing our backline. It would allow for Attakora to take the starting role at LB and we could use Garcia off the bench so that Velez is no longer our first option.
Obviously there are other factors which would need to be looked at such as salary and length of contract but I believe it's a starting point.
If Mo could swing us a deal of say Wynne for Soumare plus Chicagos first round pick or maybe some significant allocation monies then I think we'd be in business.

[Yohan]

One player I believe we get out of Chicago for Wynne would be 6'4" CB Soumare. The very same Soumare who held our most dangerous weapon DeRo in his pocket the entire game when we last played Chicago. A Soumare - Serioux pairing in the middle would make for a excellent start in repairing our backline. It would allow for Attakora to take the starting role at LB and we could use Garcia off the bench so that Velez is no longer our first option.
Obviously there are other factors which would need to be looked at such as salary and length of contract but I believe it's a starting point.
If Mo could swing us a deal of say Wynne for Soumare plus Chicagos first round pick or maybe some significant allocation monies then I think we'd be in business.
that's another solution as well. trade Wynne for a CB and put Nana at RB. this means not much of cover on RB, though I suppose Garcia and his slow legs could go there. actually, Garcia might be a better RB than a CB, because he can limit opposition winger's runs to corners, as long as his positioning is good (which is decent)

In Soumare's case, more like Toronto would have to give Wynne + a 1st round pick for Soumare. Soumare was in MLS best 11 last year, plus nominated for MLS Best Defender last year.

he is also thinking about going to France

http://www.goal.com/en/news/89/africa/2009/07/14/1380973/chicagos-bakary-soumare-heading-to-france

[AL-MO]

that's another solution as well. trade Wynne for a CB and put Nana at RB. this means not much of cover on RB, though I suppose Garcia and his slow legs could go there. actually, Garcia might be a better RB than a CB, because he can limit opposition winger's runs to corners, as long as his positioning is good (which is decent)

In Soumare's case, more like Toronto would have to give Wynne + a 1st round pick for Soumare. Soumare was in MLS best 11 last year, plus nominated for MLS Best Defender last year.

he is also thinking about going to France

http://www.goal.com/en/news/89/africa/2009/07/14/1380973/chicagos-bakary-soumare-heading-to-france

I was just about to ask if Stryker's suggested swap would be accepted by Chicago. I thought this would be the case. (given he is one of their starting CB's)

[Stryker]

Errr sorry I meant to say start Attakora at RB earlier not LB.

[Yohan]

a good MLS defender is worth their weight in gold. and your hot girlfriend

there's so few of them in this league that I'd build a defence around

speaking of defenders. what the heck is Jeff Parke still doing in Vancouver?

[jabbronies]

Wynne is a liabilty on the defence line we have now. He is an offensive D who can bring the ball up. Problem is, we don't have the right guys to pick up his slack.

Garcia has the mind for CB. He just doesn't have the legs. But that's not a problem, as long as our other CB is fast and strong.

We then should have a proper stay at home D on the opposite end. that way, if Wynne does run off, we just stretch the back into a solid 3 line until he gets back.

Nana can fill one of those other two positions - I think the guy playing on the D wing.
We need a fast, strong CB to compliment Garcia. That's what we are missing.

[Stryker]

Per Flush's earlier request for a list of players within the league I think we could persue trading Wynne for:

Chicago - Wilman Conde, Bakary Soumare, Gonzalo Segares
Chivas - Jonathan Bornstein
New England - Chris Albright
DC - Brian Namoff
Colarado - Cory Gibbs

PS sorry I couldn't get you this list earlier Flush but I was too busy tending to the tantrums of my own children. IPhone touch screens are hardly accomendating for long draw out arguements ethier.

[zamperina]

Per Flush's earlier request for a list of players within the league I think we could persue trading Wynne for:

Chicago - Wilman Conde, Bakary Soumare, Gonzalo Segares
Chivas - Jonathan Bornstein
New England - Chris Albright
DC - Brian Namoff
Colarado - Cory Gibbs

PS sorry I couldn't get you this list earlier Flush but I was too busy tending to the tantrums of my own children. IPhone touch screens are hardly accomendating for long draw out arguements ethier.

I would take anyone on that list except for Segares.

[pekduck]

At times the obvious must be grabbed like a yellow page book and hit with over the head of some people.

+1000:flare:

bring on the PRI

[FluSH]

One player I believe we get out of Chicago for Wynne would be 6'4" CB Soumare. The very same Soumare who held our most dangerous weapon DeRo in his pocket the entire game when we last played Chicago. A Soumare - Serioux pairing in the middle would make for a excellent start in repairing our backline. It would allow for Attakora to take the starting role at LB and we could use Garcia off the bench so that Velez is no longer our first option.
Obviously there are other factors which would need to be looked at such as salary and length of contract but I believe it's a starting point.
If Mo could swing us a deal of say Wynne for Soumare plus Chicagos first round pick or maybe some significant allocation monies then I think we'd be in business.

I can't see us getting any Starting 11 from Chicago... I mean MO is good, but we are still biting at the heels of the second spot in the east... are we going to get it? probably not because of the amount of road games... but a trade fot Soumare and Wynne? I don't think this would happen.... I am also worried that Serioux will go down one game and not get up... then what?

[FluSH]

that's another solution as well. trade Wynne for a CB and put Nana at RB. this means not much of cover on RB, though I suppose Garcia and his slow legs could go there. actually, Garcia might be a better RB than a CB, because he can limit opposition winger's runs to corners, as long as his positioning is good (which is decent)

In Soumare's case, more like Toronto would have to give Wynne + a 1st round pick for Soumare. Soumare was in MLS best 11 last year, plus nominated for MLS Best Defender last year.

he is also thinking about going to France

http://www.goal.com/en/news/89/africa/2009/07/14/1380973/chicagos-bakary-soumare-heading-to-france

I'll say Garcia's positioning is good most of the time but I still won't put him at RB... we've gotten way too many goals scored off the wings by strikers with pace... I see Garcia committing more fouls that not...

[FluSH]

Per Flush's earlier request for a list of players within the league I think we could persue trading Wynne for:

Chicago - Wilman Conde, Bakary Soumare, Gonzalo Segares
Chivas - Jonathan Bornstein
New England - Chris Albright
DC - Brian Namoff
Colarado - Cory Gibbs

PS sorry I couldn't get you this list earlier Flush but I was too busy tending to the tantrums of my own children. IPhone touch screens are hardly accomendating for long draw out arguements ethier.


Chris Albright has played 1 game this entire season... as much as I was worried about Wynnes conditioning while riding the bench for the USMNT... I would be a bit more worried about Albright... Well he can be found partying more than playing:

http://lagalaxy.theoffside.com/files/2008/03/chrisalbrighthottub.jpg

[FluSH]

Chicago - Wilman Conde, Bakary Soumare, Gonzalo Segares
Chivas - Jonathan Bornstein
New England - Chris Albright
DC - Brian Namoff
Colarado - Cory Gibbs



Out of these Namoff seems like the most reasonable trade that could happen... Gibbs and Albright I would not trade for... maybe aquire as an extra defender but not for Wynne. Chicago... well I can't see Chicago shaking up their starting 11 roster so late in the season and with a thin advantage over us for those top two spots in the east... Namoff looks like the most provable trade however he is also 30yrs old...

[Pachuco]

Per Flush's earlier request for a list of players within the league I think we could persue trading Wynne for:

Chicago - Wilman Conde, Bakary Soumare, Gonzalo Segares
Chivas - Jonathan Bornstein
New England - Chris Albright
DC - Brian Namoff
Colarado - Cory Gibbs

PS sorry I couldn't get you this list earlier Flush but I was too busy tending to the tantrums of my own children. IPhone touch screens are hardly accomendating for long draw out arguements ethier.

But I could name replacements for any single player on our team. Including Dero. So really, making a list is senseless to me.

The point is, you can't just blindly state that Wynne needs to be traded when you have no idea what we would be getting back. Think about it, Wynne was really as bad as you think he is, then we would be getting shit back wouldn't we? Do you really think you are a better scout then all the team's scouts and staff? It's like you are saying, Wynne is a terrible defender, but we on the boards are the only ones that know this.

Maybe it's the opposite, maybe he's quite good for MLS standards and maybe we'd be getting someone dumped on us who isn't all that good on another team.

[mmmikey]

But I could name replacements for any single player on our team. Including Dero. So really, making a list is senseless to me.

The point is, you can't just blindly state that Wynne needs to be traded when you have no idea what we would be getting back. Think about it, Wynne was really as bad as you think he is, then we would be getting shit back wouldn't we? Do you really think you are a better scout then all the team's scouts and staff? It's like you are saying, Wynne is a terrible defender, but we on the boards are the only ones that know this.

Maybe it's the opposite, maybe he's quite good for MLS standards and maybe we'd be getting someone dumped on us who isn't all that good on another team.

it's the team he is on. we are not stable/mobile enough in the other positions of the D to make up for him being out of position so often. sometimes a marauding fb is awesome to have, other times its a huge liability.

right now, wynne is a huge liability at RB.

[v00d00daddy]

But I could name replacements for any single player on our team. Including Dero. So really, making a list is senseless to me.

The point is, you can't just blindly state that Wynne needs to be traded when you have no idea what we would be getting back. Think about it, Wynne was really as bad as you think he is, then we would be getting shit back wouldn't we? Do you really think you are a better scout then all the team's scouts and staff? It's like you are saying, Wynne is a terrible defender, but we on the boards are the only ones that know this.

Maybe it's the opposite, maybe he's quite good for MLS standards and maybe we'd be getting someone dumped on us who isn't all that good on another team.

I agree. It's senseless to try and come up with real trade possibilities.

If you don't like a player it's sufficient to say you don't like him for reasons a, b, and c.

For the record...I don't like Wynne and his brick feet but it is what it is. He's a problem but not TFC's worst problem.

[Canadian Blue]

Ok, I also would like to see Wynne traded and TFC cashing in on his over inflated value "as a defender". But due to his speed I would rather see TFC spend the offseason turning this guy into an attacking right sided midfield player. Teach him how to consistently make good crosses and short passes and then he will become more of an offensive threat.......his speed will help him catch up to long balls to the corner flag before a he makes a good cross. Also his speed can be utilized to help a natural defender playing at right back.

The thing that pissed me off about the Crew game is that Wynne was supposed to be marking the goal scorer but instead he can be seen jogging back to defend, then when that player scores a free header Wynne drops to the floor holding his head as if to say "how the hell did that happen?" ..... rule #1 off a defender, get goal side.....

So in closing I would have no problem if we traded Wynne if we got something good/fair for him. And unlike other posters I do not believe it is a random message board members responsibility to find a replacement......that is why we have MoJo and Cummins and so on......

[ilikemusic]

Just fcuking RELAX... We need to trade some RU's to Bigsoccer that's what I believe we need to do.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/Dishface93/Gifs/thatsracist.gif

edit: There we go. Joke officially ruined anyways. :(

[FluSH]

^^^
El Oh El

[ilikemusic]

Whaaat?

It was there for like 30 mins.

That'll learn me to gif link from the first site google gives me. :facepalm:

[deeznutz]

Vitti has to go enough is enough