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Yohan
07-20-2009, 04:12 PM
It's a long ass thread, and it gets repetitive, but if you want to understand MLS Academy rules, here's a start

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1104784

I didn't know MLS mandated all clubs to have youth academies now

Cashcleaner
07-20-2009, 11:51 PM
^ I wasn't aware they needed to have academies either. I'm not complaining though, its the way we should be heading.

BayernTFC
07-21-2009, 10:52 AM
It's a really good read between pages 9 and 16.


With the new rules regarding academies...players who are actually developled by MLS teams will actually belong to said MLS team, and will be subject to transfer fees should they choose to go to Europe or will be allowed to sign directly with the respective MLS club.

How was this not a rule from the beginning??? :facepalm:

Haig posted some great comments today at 8:39AM on page 16 (post #159). It starts like this:

There is not a truly major league in America (think NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL) or legitimate professional soccer league in any respectable country in the world that has a fraction of the level of bullshit regulations MLS has, and MLS deliberately conceals the details of those regulations to the point where even the biggest nerds of Big Soccer, guys who have compulsively dedicated countless hours to explicate the way the league claims to run itself, can't even explicate these regulations.

BakaGaijin
07-21-2009, 11:00 AM
[quote=BayernTFC;631868]It's a really good read between pages 9 and 16.


How was this not a rule from the beginning??? :facepalm:

quote]

This was not a rule in the beginning because they wanted to prevent one or two clubs from poaching ALL of the youth talent.

Teams could only sign one player from their academy (or something like that).

__wowza
07-21-2009, 11:04 AM
this is a fucking awesome read.

BayernTFC
07-21-2009, 02:17 PM
This was not a rule in the beginning because they wanted to prevent one or two clubs from poaching ALL of the youth talent.

So they should have created a limit to the number of players that could "belong" to each team through academy development. A limit would have prevented any club from hoarding talent. If academy players aren't contractually obligated to their team in some way/shape/form, they can easily be poached by other teams with no benefit to the team which developed the player. Teams need a way to recoup their investment in player development. They do this through training players who eventually join the squad, hopefully for less money than what it would cost to bring a player in from the outside, as well as by selling players that they can't use, or who don't want to suit up for their squad, to other interested parties. It is a disincentive to player development if a team gets no direct benefit from developing players because they can just walk away in the end at no cost.



Teams could only sign one player from their academy (or something like that).
I believe that is in regards to Generation Adidas players signed from the academy, which is another issue because GA players don't count against the roster or cap:


For 2009, if a team has more than four (4) Generation adidas players on its Developmental Roster, then the additional Generation adidas players would be grandfathered and count against a team's 20-player Senior Roster (with no budget charge).
http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview


Another route would be to get rid of the frankly ridiculous rule that MLS teams can only use one Generation adidas deal in a three-year period on an Academy product. This particular rule is the epitomy of MLS bureaucratic heads-in-the-sand insanity. (Edit: and just to confuse things further, I’ve now discovered (http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/soccer/archives/2008/04/matt_kassel_and.html#more) that teams could graduate a player from Generation adidas earlier than three years — by adding them to their Senior or Developmental Roster — and then sign another GA player from the Academy. Confused yet?)
http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/01/youth-development-in-mls-the-promise-and-the-problems/


Coincidence? Likely not. Now teams can sign two academy players to a Generation Adidas (http://www.nypost.com/topics/topic.php?t=Adidas) deal instead of just one; they can ink four prospects per year, up from two; and other clubs can no longer raid their prospects, good news for talent-rich academies like New York.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05122009/sports/soccer/mls_rule_changes_could_help_red_bulls_168870.htm

Shway
07-21-2009, 02:36 PM
MLS needs to re-evaluate there format, because me and Bayern can come up with a legittiment one

BayernTFC
07-21-2009, 03:47 PM
this is a fucking awesome read.
Yeah, it really started getting good at the end. Both GVPATS77 and Haig made some interesting points. It got pretty personal between the two of them at times. Their comments made me even more interested in digging around to learn more about the rules/system. Thanks Yohan for bringing this to my attention. Cheers! :cheers:

Yohan
07-21-2009, 04:02 PM
for those of you that can't be arsed to read the entire thread (and i dont blame you lol)

1. MLS mandates all clubs to have a youth academy

2. Teams can sign youth academy products given that the player has spent 2 years in the team's youth academy. Team will then have all the rights to the player as per MLS rules

3. A player cannot be playing for any NCAA schools. If a player does play for an NCAA school, he can only be signed after going to MLS SuperDraft

am I missing any other critical rules?

Get In There
07-21-2009, 06:28 PM
for those of you that can't be arsed to read the entire thread (and i dont blame you lol)

1. MLS mandates all clubs to have a youth academy

2. Teams can sign youth academy products given that the player has spent 2 years in the team's youth academy. Team will then have all the rights to the player as per MLS rules

3. A player cannot be playing for any NCAA schools. If a player does play for an NCAA school, he can only be signed after going to MLS SuperDraft

am I missing any other critical rules?

Johan - do you know anything regarding the need for the MLS team to outright own the youth academy team?

Tks

B

Yohan
07-21-2009, 06:57 PM
Johan - do you know anything regarding the need for the MLS team to outright own the youth academy team?

Tks

B
i don't understand your question

Get In There
07-21-2009, 07:11 PM
^

Can an MLS team partner with another organization to develop youth talent or MUST they run the whole show themselves.

B

Yohan
07-21-2009, 07:29 PM
^

Can an MLS team partner with another organization to develop youth talent or MUST they run the whole show themselves.

B
that's an interesting question, but I'd think no.

what's going to stop a club from affliating themselves with multiple clubs and raid all their best players?

it'd go against key MLS concept of parity

mind you, this is just my guess

more definitely answer probably can be found by asking the 'experts'

Get In There
07-21-2009, 08:09 PM
that's an interesting question, but I'd think no.

what's going to stop a club from affliating themselves with multiple clubs and raid all their best players?

it'd go against key MLS concept of parity

mind you, this is just my guess

more definitely answer probably can be found by asking the 'experts'

I hear ya

I was thinking along the lines of affiliation with one organization and that team would be then designated the ie: TFC youth team

B

Yohan
07-21-2009, 08:12 PM
I hear ya

I was thinking along the lines of affiliation with one organization and that team would be then designated the ie: TFC youth team

B
uh, don't we already have that with TFC academy?

Get In There
07-21-2009, 08:16 PM
uh, don't we already have that with TFC academy?

Why - who are they affiliated with?

B

Yohan
07-21-2009, 08:32 PM
Why - who are they affiliated with?

B
TFC?

BayernTFC
07-21-2009, 10:06 PM
for those of you that can't be arsed to read the entire thread (and i dont blame you lol)

1. MLS mandates all clubs to have a youth academy

2. Teams can sign youth academy products given that the player has spent 2 years in the team's youth academy. Team will then have all the rights to the player as per MLS rules

3. A player cannot be playing for any NCAA schools. If a player does play for an NCAA school, he can only be signed after going to MLS SuperDraft

am I missing any other critical rules?
That's the spirit of the rules. I would make a few clarifications. For #2, the amount of time spent in the academy in order for a player to be considered an active member is 100 days within 2 years. Also, there is a vague reference to the "number of contacts" that a team must make with the player in order for them to qualify as an active member of their academy. Who knows what that number is?

A qualification should be made for #3. It should state:

A player cannot be playing for any NCAA school(s) before joining an academy, otherwise the player cannot qualify as a fully active member of an academy. In this event, the player will be eligible to enter the MLS SuperDraft.


It is actually quite a complicated issue with grey areas that the league has yet to settle. MLS didn't say that NYRB couldn't sign Duka after he attended Rutgers, just that they couldn't sign him because he wasn't officialy part of their academy before he attended Rutgers:

According to the league, the Red Bulls cannot sign Duka because he wasn't an official Red Bulls Academy player before he attended Rutgers University.

http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/teams/redbulls2.php?article_id=19091

MLS is still reviewing the issue and there may still be a chance that Duka is allowed to go to NYRB:

Asked if the Red Bulls' opportunity to sign Duka had passed, Garber replied, "I shouldn't answer that until I know that for sure and I don't know that for sure."
http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/teams/redbulls2.php?article_id=19091

Cashcleaner
07-22-2009, 12:02 AM
for those of you that can't be arsed to read the entire thread (and i dont blame you lol)

1. MLS mandates all clubs to have a youth academy

2. Teams can sign youth academy products given that the player has spent 2 years in the team's youth academy. Team will then have all the rights to the player as per MLS rules

3. A player cannot be playing for any NCAA schools. If a player does play for an NCAA school, he can only be signed after going to MLS SuperDraft

am I missing any other critical rules?

Thanks Yohan. I like lasted like two posts and threw in the towel after that.

Mark in Ottawa
07-22-2009, 07:40 AM
I wonder if an MLS team and a USL team could share an academy?

This would sort of mimic the NHL/AHL model in hockey where players not quite ready for the top league get playing time in the minor league once done with their developmental phase.

Get In There
07-22-2009, 09:53 AM
TFC?



Hey Yohan

Mark is close to what I was thinking (but these kids are younger - youth team)

What if an MLS team partnered with a local youth soccer association (IE: Richmond Hill - where DD will be the new technical director) and could piggy back on their infrastructure and the senior youth team would be designated the TFC youth team. Suppliment youth from their organization with finds that TFC makes.

Cost savings for MLSE with location, coaches, other players for the youth team (many will be playing together in the system from a young age) etc.

B

Yohan
07-22-2009, 11:27 AM
Hey Yohan

Mark is close to what I was thinking (but these kids are younger - youth team)

What if an MLS team partnered with a local youth soccer association (IE: Richmond Hill - where DD will be the new technical director) and could piggy back on their infrastructure and the senior youth team would be designated the TFC youth team. Suppliment youth from their organization with finds that TFC makes.

Cost savings for MLSE with location, coaches, other players for the youth team (many will be playing together in the system from a young age) etc.

B
again, runs into complications about affliating with multiple teams.

I'd think MLS wants the youth team to be directly run by the club to avoid any unfair advantage