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View Full Version : Should USL 1 & 2 Be Merged?



James17930
07-14-2009, 10:00 PM
I don't really understand the difference between USL 1 & 2. What really separates the clubs in these two leagues? Is it solely attendance? Stadia? I don't think the quality of play is that different.

It just seems kinda strange to me to have one league with like, 14 teams, and another with 12.

As of 2012, assuming Montreal joins MLS along with Vancouver and Portland, there will be 19 teams between the two leagues.

Why not just add one more team, merge them and make one 20 team league? Seems like it would be a good way to consolidate their support and work to get stronger.

(and then they can merge with MLS to make MLS2 ;) )

Lucky Strike
07-14-2009, 10:15 PM
I think it has to do with the various fees and expenses incurred by the club in question. USL-1 has higher fees and costs in general and there have been some teams who have voluntarily accepted "demotion" (not in the conventional promotion/relegation sense) in order to cut costs.

James17930
07-14-2009, 10:24 PM
But if they merged, couldn't they do a profit sharing thing, a la MLS, to keep all the teams floating financially?

I just think it might help with attendance as well, which of course would raise more money.

flatpicker
07-14-2009, 11:25 PM
why stop there...

MLS should merge with USL 1&2
Create two 20 team leagues with promotion/relegation.
But before anyone gets demoted from the top league, there would be a single playoff game in the top teams home ground.
- gotta help protect the bigger market clubs after all. So relegation would be avoided if they win that one game.
Then, I would have the top 32 teams from the two leagues gain spots in the MLS Cup.
See where I'm going with this?
More games for everyone, more playoff rounds, more chance of a Cinderella story.
Face it, the chance of current MLS teams getting booted down would be slim.
And if they did, the chance of them staying down would be slim, not to mention they would still get to play for the MLS Cup.

I welcome the USL and it's competition... however small it is.
The more the merrier!
So let them merge... grow in strength... and maybe it will lead to that.

:)

Yohan
07-14-2009, 11:30 PM
some USL 1 teams can barely draw 1-2000 per game

so it's not really feasible for USL 1 and 2 to merge together

Though USL is a bit of sinking ship, with its best franchises going over to MLS

James17930
07-14-2009, 11:37 PM
some USL 1 teams can barely draw 1-2000 per game

so it's not really feasible for USL 1 and 2 to merge together

Though USL is a bit of sinking ship, with its best franchises going over to MLS

That's why I'm thinking merge them and try a 'strength through unity' thing.

I think they may be able to generate more fan interest with just one single table instead of two.

Intru
07-15-2009, 12:35 AM
USL 2 clubs dont have the money to run a USL 1 club. Its not as easy as you make it sound, most of the current USL 2 teams are ex-USL 1 teams that couldnt afford the league and are all North Eastern teams because for the most part they dont have the money for plain trips, Bermuda Hoggs being a off shoot of the Bermuda fed, pays for the other teams flight to the island. Maybe now that Van and Portland are leaving and travel cost dropping considerably maybe some of the squads will go up but most wont even think about it.

kodiakTFC
07-15-2009, 01:11 AM
some USL 1 teams can barely draw 1-2000 per game

so it's not really feasible for USL 1 and 2 to merge together

Though USL is a bit of sinking ship, with its best franchises going over to MLS

Only two teams in USL don't draw a 3000 average. Here's the stats for those of you who are interested (I love attendance states):

USL 2009 Attendance
Team Name | 2009 Avg

Montreal Impact | 12,073
Rochester Rhinos | 7,826
Portland Timbers | 7,750
Vancouver Whitecaps | 5,228
Charleston Battery | 3,805
Puerto Rico Islanders | 3,303
Minnesota Thunder | 3,098
Carolina Railhawks | 3,094
Austin Aztex | 3,028
Cleveland City Stars | 1,466
Miami FC Blues | 1,396
Average | 4,261

You take away Vancouver, Portland, and Montreal this leagues average is in the 3000 region. It is respectable but I don't know whether or not that is enough to remain sustainable. Miami and Cleveland will not last in the league, I can promise you that but New York City FC and Tampa Bay Rowdies are joining next season.

TFC247
07-15-2009, 01:17 AM
MLS should merge with USL 1&2
Create two 20 team leagues with promotion/relegation.
But before anyone gets demoted from the top league, there would be a single playoff game in the top teams home ground.
It's easy for fans to say that, but we didn't pay tens of millions in franchise fees. In other words, you can't charge that kind of money while allowing other teams an opportunity to join the league for free. I'm not trashing your idea, it's just that there should be a consistency in allowing teams to join. You either scrap the franchise fee, or set it to minimum. Or, charge every team regardless how they enter. Unfortunately, neither case is viable since neither sides will agree to that.

Only way I see pro/rel being possible, if it ever happened here, is if it creates another top tier league, sort of like how EPL did. For example, let teams continue to pay the franchise fee to join MLS, but once it reaches to 26 or 28, split the league based on a league record the previous year, similar to how it currently splits the teams for a playoff. For the teams that didn't make the cut, they still keep everything the same and continue on with MLS. Those owners can't bitch about it since nothing's changed other than their own incompetence to advance. But for those who made the cut, create a premier league with a new TV deals, sponsors, and rules etc. And the owners of newly advanced have no choice but to agree to pro/rel since they didn't pay the franchise fee to join this new league.

DichioTFC
07-15-2009, 02:52 AM
I REALLY like this idea as a future and long-term idea (too much supply will dilute the product and the widespread opinion of the MLS is currently poor, so this would be forseeable when regional parity exists)




MLS should merge with USL 1&2
Create two 20 team leagues with promotion/relegation.
Then, I would have the top 32 teams from the two leagues gain spots in the MLS Cup.


brilliant idea.. but I have a couple tweaks.

First, there are 14 MLS teams (Portland, Philly & Vancouver included), 11 USL 1 teams (not including Portland, Vancouver, but including FC New York and Tampa Bay) and 9 USL 2 teams.



USL 2009 Attendance
Team Name | 2009 Avg

Montreal Impact | 12,073
Rochester Rhinos | 7,826
Portland Timbers | 7,750
Vancouver Whitecaps | 5,228
Charleston Battery | 3,805
Puerto Rico Islanders | 3,303
Minnesota Thunder | 3,098
Carolina Railhawks | 3,094
Austin Aztex | 3,028
Cleveland City Stars | 1,466
Miami FC Blues | 1,396
Average | 4,261


The top USL1 teams by attendance would get a place in the MLS First Division (or MLS Premiership.. cut off around Minnesota / Carolina / Austin) and the remaining would combine with the USL2 teams to create the MLS Second Division (or MLS Championship).

The CSL teams could become either feeder teams to the MLS1 & MLS2, or they could be part of an MLS-style secondary cup.

This way revenue can be shared, Cinderella stories can happen, football awareness across the continent grows and (with the development of club and national academies) there wouldnt be a need for a salary cap or a draft.

true theres downsides (one being that it cant happen for awhile, it'll simply dilute the current product), but i think it should be the long-term model for North American soccer.

Yohan
07-15-2009, 03:35 AM
apparently MLS FO and USL FO hate each other

so a merger is probably not going to happen anytime soon

I really don't want to see much dickering around between USL and MLS. MLS is in no position to expand like crazy

rocker
07-15-2009, 07:41 AM
the only way any merger happens is if it makes financial sense for MLS.

But why take the risk? Assuming the risk of all those USL teams is not something MLS needs right now. I don't even know if USL teams make money across the board.. do they?

Such proposals never really answer the financial question of Why? What financial gain does MLS make from buying up the USL? All I see is additional costs, more bloated bureaucracy.
It's better to let the USL do its thing. It helps soccer and they do their thing on their own dime.

Also, MLS wants the USL to be separate to ensure they don't get charged with collusion. Right now MLS single entity means they are except from anti-trust laws and there's another "soccer business" MLS players can go to unconnected to MLS -- the USL. If the USL and MLS merge, you suddenly have a monopoly of pro soccer, and I'm sure regulators will take a look at it.

Fort York Redcoat
07-15-2009, 07:52 AM
I prefer the different level in leagues. To have more levels at this point to me clearly is a fifnancial necessity. If the talent level isn't that different then the leagues need a slow grow that will have the higher level affording to poach the lower and eventually make MLS proposals. To merge for me would muddy the already unsure talent levels of the various teams for the sake of the NA sports "more teams is better" philosophy.