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Stryker
07-12-2009, 01:52 AM
The guy isn't going to get significantly better so trade him for a good forward and some cash while we still can.
He doesn't have a head for defending and doesn't have the ball skills to be a good forward.

Yohan
07-12-2009, 02:02 AM
not until Mo signs another defender.

Wynne cost nothing to cap due to GA status right now.

Actually, when does his Generation Adidas status expire?

Either way, not enough depth in defence to make Wynne expendable. Unless you want Velez back in defence again lol

Super
07-12-2009, 02:10 AM
Easy now, my friend. We won tonight. Let's enjoy the 3 points and shell players with our discontent come our next defeat ;)

Stryker
07-12-2009, 02:13 AM
We don't have enough depth ANYWHERE.
What we do have is a far better chance of signing a solid european defender than a forward when the window opens.

Stryker
07-12-2009, 02:15 AM
Easy now, my friend. We won tonight. Let's enjoy the 3 points and shell players with our discontent come our next defeat ;)
I've been saying this since preseason. His value drops with every game.

Yohan
07-12-2009, 02:16 AM
We don't have enough depth ANYWHERE.
What we do have is a far better chance of signing a solid european defender than a forward when the window opens.
can we afford to risk to see if Gomez and Sanyang pans out?

with no or very little cap room left if JDG does sign?

you can talk whatever about Mo, but usually his youngster signings turn out ok a lot of the time

twistedchinaman
07-12-2009, 02:18 AM
Wynne can go WHEN we have a solid backline.

Thank you, come again!

UltraSuperMegaMo
07-12-2009, 02:21 AM
not until Mo signs another defender.

Wynne cost nothing to cap due to GA status right now.

Actually, when does his Generation Adidas status expire?

Either way, not enough depth in defence to make Wynne expendable. Unless you want Velez back in defence again lol

Pretty sure Wynne's GA status expired a while back. The roster on the TFC website does not list him as a GA player.

Stryker
07-12-2009, 02:25 AM
Attakora has proven he's a better defender. Cummins knows it. Why would you keep Wynne as a bench defender when you can trade him for a starting forward? As far as depth... we don't have a single TRUE right or left midfielder on the team right now. Depth chart doesn't get any shallower than that.
Brennen and Wynne starting on the wings says it all. If you can't see that this is out of desperation rather than choice you're blind.
Oh and btw.. I'd also rate Cronin higher than Wynne at RB so that drops Wynne to third in his natural position.
Sadly he plays everywhere else even worse.

Yohan
07-12-2009, 02:29 AM
Pretty sure Wynne's GA status expired a while back. The roster on the TFC website does not list him as a GA player.
Orly...

Trade him while he's got some value then

Lennon
07-12-2009, 02:44 AM
Too bad he didn't get any play time in the Confederations cup ... he might have blazed past a few defenders and we could have sold him for 5 million to some mid table European side ... :lol:

manic.street.preacher
07-12-2009, 02:49 AM
Too bad he didn't get any play time in the Confederations cup ... he might have blazed past a few defenders and we could have sold him for 5 million to some mid table European side ... :lol:
^for grass right? :lol:

Shakes McQueen
07-12-2009, 07:10 AM
I'm fine with hanging on to a defender who regularly gets called up to the USMNT, and who doesn't come under the cap at all.

He had a rough go last night, but we've seen better. I don't agree with shipping people out every time they have a run of bad form.

Remember last season when he was one of our best players towards the end? I don't think his value is dropping every day at all. He even started out this season well, before some inopportune handballs began to erode his personal fanbase.

I'll be interested to see if Wynne becomes the new TFC pariah around here though, now that Barrett has had a couple of clutch performances recently.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
07-12-2009, 07:14 AM
Too bad he didn't get any play time in the Confederations cup ... he might have blazed past a few defenders and we could have sold him for 5 million to some mid table European side ... :lol:

I remember when we sold Edu, many folks here thought we completely fleeced Rangers. Now he's in their starting XI, and playing tremendously well.

I could easily see Wynne being a similar situation, if we shipped him out. He has athletic gifts - he just needs to work on his defending IQ.

- Scott

Fushida
07-12-2009, 07:48 AM
He has had a below average season. This game just highlighted it because generally everyone else played better than him (for once, we don't have Barrett/Vitti as the scape goat). However I don't think we should trade him.

Realistically, I don't think his "footy IQ" is going to develop other than with time. We've been saying the same "he's got amazing physique but terrible technical ability, but he'll develop" line for the past 3 years. Frankly, its seeming less and less likely to happen. Either way, he's still not a bad MLS caliber fullback at the moment with great ability to go forward and make up for his mistakes.... with our slow as hell defense right now, I'd rather play it safe and keep him unless some amazing offer comes along.

Kaz
07-12-2009, 07:51 AM
Why a starting g forward? Gerba, White, Barrett, Vitti, Ibby, DD
we have 4 mids right now. Why wouldn't you want to trade him for a mid fielder if one of the Gambian can take his place.

I'm just watching the game now and SJ goal was directly the fault of wynne coming out of positionand letting Huckerby have a free shot. But both Berrett and Vitti scored last night and Gerba is the top goal scorer in the Gold cup right now.

This seems like a silly unneeded trade suggestion without a proven replacement

FluSH
07-12-2009, 08:08 AM
ONE mediocre game... Wynne has had many GREAT games... where he literally has saved our ass... we would be nuts to trade him...

P.S. The handball game notwithstanding...

Nuvinho
07-12-2009, 08:22 AM
With Wynne...he definately can play, but can he play as a RB in a 4 man backline. I think in 5-4-1 formation he can do well, with 3 CBs and Wynne as a RWB, where his defensive responsibilities aren't as much as a RB. Then he can use his speed up and down the wings.

----------Nana----Garcia----Serioux---------
Wynne--------------------------------Brennan
-------------------Robbo---------------------
-----DeRo---------Guevara----------Vitti-----
------------------Gerba---------------------

(I know Cronin isn't included in this lineup, nor is Barrett). Wow, I never imagined being able to say that we have 2 subs on the bench who should be starters on other teams.

greatwhitenorf
07-12-2009, 08:44 AM
He's a great player! Hugely entertaining.

Sure some of those entertaining moments are scrambling to recover from an error, but that's often from ranging forward to cover up a weakness in midfield or to try to generate some attack. If you haven't noticed, we've had trouble scoring.

You might not see this watching on TV out west, but watching live, you see he's often squeezing up the right side to create a five-man midfield. Someone's telling hiim to do that.

He rarely gets beat one on one. Great balance and centre of gravity. Brings all kinds of options to the attack. We're lucky to have him.

TFCmatty
07-12-2009, 08:49 AM
Serioux was much worse than Wynee last night...

markus
07-12-2009, 08:59 AM
...and Garcia....

Broadview
07-12-2009, 09:07 AM
I remember lurking the Energy Drink BS board last season after we beat them 3-1away. The post I remember the most said:

"We traded away Marvell Wynne because...????"

I never want to be that guy.

And why do we keep having negative player threads after wins? Same thing happened last time we won....geez.

Fushida
07-12-2009, 09:21 AM
He's a great player! Hugely entertaining.

Sure some of those entertaining moments are scrambling to recover from an error, but that's often from ranging forward to cover up a weakness in midfield or to try to generate some attack. If you haven't noticed, we've had trouble scoring.

You might not see this watching on TV out west, but watching live, you see he's often squeezing up the right side to create a five-man midfield. Someone's telling hiim to do that.

He rarely gets beat one on one. Great balance and centre of gravity. Brings all kinds of options to the attack. We're lucky to have him.

Actually.............. :rolleyes:

He gets beat a LOT one on one. Its just that his speed allows him to track back faster than the opposing player can do anything with the room he's got.

Still, like I said before... I think trading him at this moment would be foolish... especially with our defense as is.

bignickel
07-12-2009, 09:28 AM
He's a great player! Hugely entertaining.

Sure some of those entertaining moments are scrambling to recover from an error, but that's often from ranging forward to cover up a weakness in midfield or to try to generate some attack. If you haven't noticed, we've had trouble scoring.

You might not see this watching on TV out west, but watching live, you see he's often squeezing up the right side to create a five-man midfield. Someone's telling hiim to do that.

He rarely gets beat one on one. Great balance and centre of gravity. Brings all kinds of options to the attack. We're lucky to have him.

not to mention he hasn't played in a month and half!

ecospice
07-12-2009, 09:45 AM
I remember when we sold Edu, many folks here thought we completely fleeced Rangers. Now he's in their starting XI, and playing tremendously well.

I could easily see Wynne being a similar situation, if we shipped him out. He has athletic gifts - he just needs to work on his defending IQ.

- Scott

This is true. Wynne has the hardware, but it is still a guess as to whether he has the software. (O.K. I am still hungover from last night's post-win - or should I say post Wynne??? - victory party and that lame analogy is all I can come up with). The long layoff he had by being with the USMNT and not getting a lot of playing time likely is a reason the 'software' isn't where it should be yet. But we shouldn't give up on him, just get him some consistent time and coaching so he can learn. If that doesn't work, then we can turf him.

:flare:

v00d00daddy
07-12-2009, 10:45 AM
I wouldn't trade Wynne when he isn't playing well. It doesn't make sense. That being said, I don't think he had improved during his time at TFC and that's scary.

We know he's really fast and can track down any player in this league. The problem with Wynne is that his touch when he gives and receives short passes is terrible. His instincts and ability to read the play are bad too. All he does is react.

I don't know what can be done with him.

CretanBull
07-12-2009, 10:49 AM
I wouldn't trade Wynne when he isn't playing well. It doesn't make sense. That being said, I don't think he had improved during his time at TFC and that's scary.

We know he's really fast and can track down any player in this league. The problem with Wynne is that his touch when he gives and receives short passes is terrible. His instincts and ability to read the play are bad too. All he does is react.

I don't know what can be done with him.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

koryo
07-12-2009, 10:58 AM
Like it or no, the Wynne we see today is the finished article. He's not going to get any better.

I'd deal him at season's end, or perhaps at the end of next season. Either way, we'd be better off shipping him out before he starts to lose a step on his pace. Once that happens, he won't be worth anything as he doesn't have any technical skills to compensate.

I just don't think he's a very good defender. I've thought it from year one and had hoped he would improve. He hasn't and should be moved in the next two years.

felipe
07-12-2009, 10:58 AM
Meh...he still has incredible upside no matter his current struggles - (cut the guy some slack, he hasn't played meaningful minutes in what, 6 weeks?)

Short memories on this board - it wasn't that long ago he was arguably our best defender...

His mistakes last night came from trying to do too much - any coach can work with that kind of attitude

And I think he has improved - and with his physical gifts - its only a matter of time until someone 'bigger' ie) europe, comes calling for him

Like Edu he'll probably get much better once put in a better environment where he is constantly challenged and can't just rely on his physical gifts

Enjoy him while you can

rocker
07-12-2009, 10:59 AM
Wynne's fine in MLS. he's probably an average MLS defender right now. He's only 23 right? So he's not gonna lose his speed for probably 5 years. Track athletes in the 100 metres compete well later in their 20s :)

Average is not a bad thing. If people are comparing him to Euro defenders (given that there's always talk he might be sold to europe) then he's always gonna look like shit.
Ya he's all athleticism and not great with the footy IQ, but right now at his age, that's enough to be a competent MLS defender. He can close down just about anybody and muscle just about anybody off the ball. We need that.

Detroit_TFC
07-12-2009, 11:17 AM
I remember when we sold Edu, many folks here thought we completely fleeced Rangers. Now he's in their starting XI, and playing tremendously well.

I could easily see Wynne being a similar situation, if we shipped him out. He has athletic gifts - he just needs to work on his defending IQ.

- Scott

I'm inclined to agree with this. Edu was an underachiever at TFC but in the right environment he's motivated and successful. I wish I knew what the key to motivating Wynne is, unfortunately I think the answer lays outside MLS.

TFC07
07-12-2009, 11:24 AM
AGREED!

Wynne is an awful defender! Trade him for CB or transfer Wynne and use some of money to get a CB. We need a centreback more than we need a striker. Garcia is washed up and Serioux is natural defensive mid who plays CB.

Beach_Red
07-12-2009, 11:31 AM
Wynne's fine in MLS.


This is true and it's key. With this salary cap teams need players of a certain ability and guys like Wynne and Barrett hit the target right now. Any better and we lose them to leagues that can pay more.

The last time we played RSL that Movisisyan guy killed us. But now he's going to Europe. Good for us, bad for them.

Dub Narcotic
07-12-2009, 11:34 AM
I thought Wynne had one of his best games of the season last night. His athleticism really makes a difference on the right.

greatwhitenorf
07-12-2009, 11:41 AM
From the man who covered the game for MLS.net, quoting the man who decides if Wynne plays:

Wynne's return was especially key. Not only was this his first action with Toronto since May 30, he was handed the duty of patrolling San Jose forward Darren Huckerby. Huckerby did spring loose to score a first-half goal, but Cummins was pleased with Wynne's return.
"He hasn't played a lot so I was worried if he could get through the 90 minutes, but you see him there with his energy," Cummins said. "Huckerby's a good player. I know Huckerby from England and I know he's a good player, but we knew Marvell would be able to cope with him. ... Once he got into the rhythm of the game he was outstanding. Marvell gives us so much going forward at times with his athleticism. He's gotten in there and put some crosses in at the right time. Defensively, he was very, very solid as well."

So there you have it. The definitive assessments on Wynne. As opposed to random anonymous internet moaning from 14-year-olds in a remote part of the country watching on TV.

Case closed, let's move on and complain about something else, shall we?

jloome
07-12-2009, 11:41 AM
I thought Wynne had one of his best games of the season last night. His athleticism really makes a difference on the right.

He got burned three times and whiffed on the ball twice. His defending was, generously, mediocre-to-poor.

He doesn't have the ball skills to compete at a higher level and he doesn't have the positioning sense to compete at a higher level. I think he contributes, because of his speed and work rate, but if Chicago would give us Rolfe and Mapp for him, I'd take it in a second. Nana's just a better defender.

jloome
07-12-2009, 11:42 AM
From the man who covered the game for MLS.net, quoting the man who decides if Wynne plays:

Wynne's return was especially key. Not only was this his first action with Toronto since May 30, he was handed the duty of patrolling San Jose forward Darren Huckerby. Huckerby did spring loose to score a first-half goal, but Cummins was pleased with Wynne's return.
"He hasn't played a lot so I was worried if he could get through the 90 minutes, but you see him there with his energy," Cummins said. "Huckerby's a good player. I know Huckerby from England and I know he's a good player, but we knew Marvell would be able to cope with him. ... Once he got into the rhythm of the game he was outstanding. Marvell gives us so much going forward at times with his athleticism. He's gotten in there and put some crosses in at the right time. Defensively, he was very, very solid as well."

So there you have it. The definitive assessments on Wynne. As opposed to random anonymous internet moaning from 14-year-olds in a remote part of the country watching on TV.

Case closed, let's move on and complain about something else, shall we?

Yeah, case closed because a coach never says what he thinks a player needs to hear, he's always direct and forthright with the press, and it's stupid for fans to discuss their team in anything other than sunny, optimistic terms.

Could everyone just put a fucking plug in the "don't talk about this!" sentiment. If people don't like the subject matter, change the fucking channel, read something else.

TFC07
07-12-2009, 11:43 AM
From the man who covered the game for MLS.net, quoting the man who decides if Wynne plays:

Wynne's return was especially key. Not only was this his first action with Toronto since May 30, he was handed the duty of patrolling San Jose forward Darren Huckerby. Huckerby did spring loose to score a first-half goal, but Cummins was pleased with Wynne's return.
"He hasn't played a lot so I was worried if he could get through the 90 minutes, but you see him there with his energy," Cummins said. "Huckerby's a good player. I know Huckerby from England and I know he's a good player, but we knew Marvell would be able to cope with him. ... Once he got into the rhythm of the game he was outstanding. Marvell gives us so much going forward at times with his athleticism. He's gotten in there and put some crosses in at the right time. Defensively, he was very, very solid as well."

So there you have it. The definitive assessments on Wynne. As opposed to random anonymous internet moaning from 14-year-olds in a remote part of the country watching on TV.

Case closed, let's move on and complain about something else, shall we?

LOL @ Cummins.


I don't know what game he was watching :facepalm:

v00d00daddy
07-12-2009, 11:53 AM
From the man who covered the game for MLS.net, quoting the man who decides if Wynne plays:

Wynne's return was especially key. Not only was this his first action with Toronto since May 30, he was handed the duty of patrolling San Jose forward Darren Huckerby. Huckerby did spring loose to score a first-half goal, but Cummins was pleased with Wynne's return.
"He hasn't played a lot so I was worried if he could get through the 90 minutes, but you see him there with his energy," Cummins said. "Huckerby's a good player. I know Huckerby from England and I know he's a good player, but we knew Marvell would be able to cope with him. ... Once he got into the rhythm of the game he was outstanding. Marvell gives us so much going forward at times with his athleticism. He's gotten in there and put some crosses in at the right time. Defensively, he was very, very solid as well."

So there you have it. The definitive assessments on Wynne. As opposed to random anonymous internet moaning from 14-year-olds in a remote part of the country watching on TV.

Case closed, let's move on and complain about something else, shall we?

There you go. Case closed.

Cummins said something to defend his decision which was poor. Wynne did not "handle" Huckerby well last night. Huckerby scored. Huckerby also missed a glorious chance when a crossed ball went right through Wynne's legs. Huckerby didn't react in time because he thought there was no way that the ball would get to him.

Little did he know that the ball would be coming through Marvell "I'm so fast I'm good" Wynne.

The guy is fast as hell and the ball off his foot comes off well 1 out of every 10 times. He has little to no idea where to be on the field.

That's case closed. No matter how much Coach Cummins wants to sugar coat things.

greatwhitenorf
07-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Yeah, case closed because a coach never says what he thinks a player needs to hear, he's always direct and forthright with the press, and it's stupid for fans to discuss their team in anything other than sunny, optimistic terms.

Could everyone just put a fucking plug in the "don't talk about this!" sentiment. If people don't like the subject matter, change the fucking channel, read something else.

It's MLS, toots. Life in the lower leagues. Live with it. Laugh at it.

v00d00daddy
07-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Could everyone just put a fucking plug in the "don't talk about this!" sentiment. If people don't like the subject matter, change the fucking channel, read something else.

I don't always agree with you Mr. Loome but you hit the nail on the head with this comment.

Apparently some believe that you can't say anything critical after a win, loss or draw. I don't understand why people feel the need to chime in when they don't like what's being discussed. Just ignore the thread.

I can't tell you how many threads I don't even open, in fear that what I might read will piss me off.

What's the sense in getting upset when you don't have to?

Fushida
07-12-2009, 12:12 PM
From the man who covered the game for MLS.net, quoting the man who decides if Wynne plays:

Wynne's return was especially key. Not only was this his first action with Toronto since May 30, he was handed the duty of patrolling San Jose forward Darren Huckerby. Huckerby did spring loose to score a first-half goal, but Cummins was pleased with Wynne's return.
"He hasn't played a lot so I was worried if he could get through the 90 minutes, but you see him there with his energy," Cummins said. "Huckerby's a good player. I know Huckerby from England and I know he's a good player, but we knew Marvell would be able to cope with him. ... Once he got into the rhythm of the game he was outstanding. Marvell gives us so much going forward at times with his athleticism. He's gotten in there and put some crosses in at the right time. Defensively, he was very, very solid as well."

So there you have it. The definitive assessments on Wynne. As opposed to random anonymous internet moaning from 14-year-olds in a remote part of the country watching on TV.

Case closed, let's move on and complain about something else, shall we?

:picard:

Stryker
07-12-2009, 01:17 PM
Why a starting g forward? Gerba, White, Barrett, Vitti, Ibby, DD
we have 4 mids right now. Yes four mids. One CAM, one CM and two DM's.
Left/right wing players on TFC = 0
Left/right midfielders playing on TFC = 0

DeRo can play all the above well but we're still not going to get the best out of him playing in those spots. Cronin can play RM as he crosses the ball fairly well but he doesn't have the attacking skills to beat the other team off the dribble but relies on finding holes and through balls to get forward.
We'll very badly in need offensive wing men who can consistantly provide quality crosses.

Yohan
07-12-2009, 01:20 PM
Left/right wing players on TFC = 0
Left/right midfielders playing on TFC = 0
DeRo can play all the above well but we're still not going to get the best out of him playing n those spots. Cronin can play RM as he crosses the ball fairly well but he doesn't have the attacking skills to beat the other team off the dribble and this relies on finding holes and through balls to get forward.
We'll very badly in need offensive wing men who can consistantly provide quality crosses.
Jimmy B is a natural left winger. and I rate him higher at LW than LB anyways.

Stryker
07-12-2009, 01:35 PM
Jimmy B is a natural left winger. and I rate him higher at LW than LB anyways.

Yes you're right he is. So we have one LW who's played LWB for the last 3 seasons.
Anyway the point of my thread was not so much what we have and who plays where but rather that we should trade Wynne while we can still get something of significant value for him.

The fact that we're in need of a right sided attacking player who can provide consistent quality crosses is secondary.

olegunnar
07-12-2009, 01:36 PM
Wynne is like Sutton. Not very good, but capable of lots of highlight plays...for both teams. Moments of brillance sprinkled into mediocre performance which is sort of the USL-MLS level of play.
My concern though is, is he good enough to play on a winning team.
He was bad against Ashe and Holden from Houston. He was really bad against Vandenberg. Thorington from Chcago exposed him a few times. Last night, until he ran out of gas Huckerby abused Wynne.
So yeah he's capable of highight plays...but I think his level of play is lower table MLS...and we should be aiming for better.

TFC USA
07-12-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm fine with hanging on to a defender who regularly gets called up to the USMNT, and who doesn't come under the cap at all.

You haven't been to the USA Men's forum for any soccer website have you?

He got his ass torn up in the Costa Rica game.

I like Wynne. But he's getting increasingly worse with each game he plays. He leaves way too much space marking a defender, his passing and crossing is not that great, and I swear he leads the team in penalties called.

My biggest problem with him is he's not got a hint of football IQ in him. He's just fast and can occasionally make good plays.

On the other hand he's an offensive threat and has scored 2 great goals in his career.

Give him a few more games and see how things turn out. I think he is in deep water.

FluSH
07-12-2009, 02:31 PM
I wouldn't trade Wynne when he isn't playing well. It doesn't make sense. That being said, I don't think he had improved during his time at TFC and that's scary.

We know he's really fast and can track down any player in this league. The problem with Wynne is that his touch when he gives and receives short passes is terrible. His instincts and ability to read the play are bad too. All he does is react.

I don't know what can be done with him.

I'll say his first touch is not always the best... but surely you can improve on this. He's been off for sometime... sitting on the bench for USMNT didn't do him well.

Let's see how he plays in the next few games before the axes come falling... because at this rate we wouldn't have any players left if we traded them after ONE mediocre game...

Yohan
07-12-2009, 02:52 PM
I'll say his first touch is not always the best... but surely you can improve on this. He's been off for sometime... sitting on the bench for USMNT didn't do him well.

Let's see how he plays in the next few games before the axes come falling... because at this rate we wouldn't have any players left if we traded them after ONE mediocre game...
except Wynne has been consistenly bad or ok this season

CretanBull
07-12-2009, 02:52 PM
I'll say his first touch is not always the best... but surely you can improve on this. He's been off for sometime... sitting on the bench for USMNT didn't do him well.

Let's see how he plays in the next few games before the axes come falling... because at this rate we wouldn't have any players left if we traded them after ONE mediocre game...


I don't think people are reacting to one bad game. I've always thought that he was 'good' but liked the fact that he showed potential to become great. What we've seen since season 1 is that he appears content to play his game as-is and not work on improving things. For example, he gets caught out of position alot - instead of trying to improve his positional play, he seems happy to just use his speed to make up for it. That works well for him now but he's not always going to be as fast as he is now.

His runs down the side line used to cause fits for defenders, but league wide teams have made adjustments to him. Now defenders just back off of him, they give themselves space to react to a 1 vs 1 situation against Wynne and don't worry about him crossing the ball in. He's most dangerous when he's making over-lapping runs with the winger/striker because once he's deep in the offensive zone he needs someone to finish the play for him - he can't break down defenders or cross the ball in. If he could learn to do either of those things he could live up to his potential and be a dangerous and feared player in this league..but we haven't seen him take that next step in his developement and it's been two and half years.

I don't think that we should dump him because he can be a usefull player for us and there's nothing wrong with having some depth - especially at the back. If he's going to stay in the MLS, it might as well be with us.

Having said that, if we could collect a transfer fee for him we'd be stupid not to take it...

druid
07-12-2009, 03:31 PM
When was the last time Wynne had a game? The end of May?

H Bomb
07-12-2009, 03:35 PM
3 years in and people still have no idea what MLS players are like. Well fuck it right? lets just get Zambrotta to fill the gap before Glen Johnson matures.

Shakes McQueen
07-12-2009, 03:38 PM
You haven't been to the USA Men's forum for any soccer website have you?

He got his ass torn up in the Costa Rica game.

I like Wynne. But he's getting increasingly worse with each game he plays. He leaves way too much space marking a defender, his passing and crossing is not that great, and I swear he leads the team in penalties called.

My biggest problem with him is he's not got a hint of football IQ in him. He's just fast and can occasionally make good plays.

On the other hand he's an offensive threat and has scored 2 great goals in his career.

Give him a few more games and see how things turn out. I think he is in deep water.

My point wasn't so much that he's a top player on the USMNT, as it was that the USMNT clearly sees promise in him. He gets more call-ups than immensely talented players like Kenny Cooper.

And while he was pretty shitty in the Costa Rica game, he HAS played well for the USMNT in the past.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
07-12-2009, 03:39 PM
3 years in and people still have no idea what MLS players are like. Well fuck it right? lets just get Zambrotta to fill the gap before Glen Johnson matures.

Well said. :D

- Scott

Kaz
07-12-2009, 04:14 PM
Yes four mids. One CAM, one CM and two DM's.
Left/right wing players on TFC = 0
Left/right midfielders playing on TFC = 0

DeRo can play all the above well but we're still not going to get the best out of him playing in those spots. Cronin can play RM as he crosses the ball fairly well but he doesn't have the attacking skills to beat the other team off the dribble but relies on finding holes and through balls to get forward.
We'll very badly in need offensive wing men who can consistantly provide quality crosses.

And we are scoring goals and making chances with out the position at the moment. So why would anyone in their right mind, knowing that DD is retiring at the end of the year most likely, trade a defender we need for a Forward position we don't at the moment?

This year we have lost by small enough margins that we could have at least 4 more points if we had a stronger back line, without changing things up front at all. why weaken that further?

Why not look for a stronger Defender to help prevent goals, and bring in a wingmen to replace DD toward the end of the transfer window, when we are in the play off race, and doing all right in the CCL group stage. And a grass deal is hopefully in place, so we are more attractive to a half way decent forward that will play for 250k a year.

AL-MO
07-12-2009, 04:35 PM
LOL @ This thread.

Wynne is what he is. Speed and not much else. I knew that when Mo picked him up from NY.

v00d00daddy
07-12-2009, 05:01 PM
I'll say his first touch is not always the best... but surely you can improve on this. He's been off for sometime... sitting on the bench for USMNT didn't do him well.

Let's see how he plays in the next few games before the axes come falling... because at this rate we wouldn't have any players left if we traded them after ONE mediocre game...


I don't think the axe needs to fall by any means. I'm just not sure how he fits in with the rest of the players on this team now.

Since Vitti, DeRo, Cronin, and Serioux have been added to a guy like Guevara, TFC has become a better technical team. These guys seem to prefer to control the game by keeping possession of the ball.

As a result, past "go to" guys, like Jimmy B, Robbo and Wynne have become exposed. In my opinion, these guys haven't dropped off in performance as much as the rest of the team has improved around them.

Lack of vision, patience, and skill on the ball can no longer be masked by hard work, heart, and ,in Wynnes case, speed or physical prowess.

I don't know if Wynne has the parts to turn into a smart, controlled player...and what's worse is that I don't think his style of play is easily mixed in with a possession kind of game.

I think we would all agree that when TFC plays a stong, patient, possession minded game, they are more interesting to watch, and tend to get better results.

I just don't think Wynne can contribute in that style.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that we need to axe Wynne or even Robbo and Jimmy B. I just think that the time will come when what they have to offer no longer adds anything of substance to this team. If it hasn't already.

Fushida
07-12-2009, 05:47 PM
^^ brilliant, very well put. and i agree 100%.

FluSH
07-12-2009, 06:46 PM
What we've seen since season 1 is that he appears content to play his game as-is and not work on improving things. For example, he gets caught out of position alot - instead of trying to improve his positional play, he seems happy to just use his speed to make up for it. That works well for him now but he's not always going to be as fast as he is now.


I can't say that anyone from season 1 in our current roster has improved their game... I'm trying to think of someone... but I can't. Marvell Wynne is 23 years old... let me rephrase that... he is 23 years old!!! He's going to mantain his speed for at least 4 more years...

I totally agree in regards to his crossing and/or control skills to break down defenders... those skills are surely lacking. However, we don't know what plans JC had for Wynne and what Cummins is currently working on for Marvell Wynne... It's cool to say he can't do this... but what if the man never gets a chance to truly improve his crossing game and/or control dribling skills... I heard once that Cummins had Barret replay every missed opportunity scenario during practice! Well almost every missed opportunity... do we think they are training Wynne that hard to cross balls and/or shake down the defence?

If Marvell Wynne leaves Toronto FC... mark my words... at 23yrs old he will improve.

FluSH
07-12-2009, 06:57 PM
I don't think the axe needs to fall by any means. I'm just not sure how he fits in with the rest of the players on this team now.

Since Vitti, DeRo, Cronin, and Serioux have been added to a guy like Guevara, TFC has become a better technical team. These guys seem to prefer to control the game by keeping possession of the ball.

As a result, past "go to" guys, like Jimmy B, Robbo and Wynne have become exposed. In my opinion, these guys haven't dropped off in performance as much as the rest of the team has improved around them.

Lack of vision, patience, and skill on the ball can no longer be masked by hard work, heart, and ,in Wynnes case, speed or physical prowess.

I don't know if Wynne has the parts to turn into a smart, controlled player...and what's worse is that I don't think his style of play is easily mixed in with a possession kind of game.

I think we would all agree that when TFC plays a stong, patient, possession minded game, they are more interesting to watch, and tend to get better results.

I just don't think Wynne can contribute in that style.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that we need to axe Wynne or even Robbo and Jimmy B. I just think that the time will come when what they have to offer no longer adds anything of substance to this team. If it hasn't already.

This goes back to my... "I don't think anyone from season 1 has improved" response to Cretanbull.

3 games ago I don't believe you would have brought Vitti into this equation... now he's playing like a monster. Serioux is one injury away from a long break off the pitch. There was one point during yesterday's game that Serioux literally held unto the arm of a San Jose player... I think he was hurt and was trying to keep the player from beating him with a turn around... Serioux has me worried... he's a great player when he's 100%... but he's not... and we keep grinding him and grinding him... the turf is probably not helping his cause.

Anyhow... The time will come... and in regards to your:


Lack of vision, patience, and skill on the ball can no longer be masked by hard work, heart, and ,in Wynnes case, speed or physical prowess.

You can work on your vision and patience... but try working on someone's speed and/or physical prowness hmmmmm... let's trade Wynne and forget about tryng to coach him to make him better... instead let's make Garcia faster and give him physical prowess.

S_D
07-12-2009, 07:08 PM
My point wasn't so much that he's a top player on the USMNT, as it was that the USMNT clearly sees promise in him. He gets more call-ups than immensely talented players like Kenny Cooper.

And while he was pretty shitty in the Costa Rica game, he HAS played well for the USMNT in the past.

- Scott

I am ok with wynne, but as almo said he is all speed. When someone is about to get by him he usually has to give them a two handed shove and give up a free kick. Personally I would rather see him as a bench player on TFC if playing right back but with the salary cap and all I am not sure it is even possible.

We all know his positioning leaves a lot to be desired. But that being said, I would prefer someone with a little less speed and more positional awareness. It needs to be drilled into him so he can improve as a player.

And I if he is going to be a bench warmer on the USMNT, I would prefer that he just not get called up at all. It is nice to be called up but it doesn't do Wynne any good nor TFC if he is not getting any game time.

If TFC got their hands on another solid CB so that nana could play RB, I would want to see wynne on the bench or traded if a deal that blew Mo's hat off came along.

DichioTFC
07-12-2009, 07:10 PM
Wynne is a very good player and its a little premature to call for his removal from the squad. Sure he has to develop and mature, but please, can we refrain from THE SKY IS FALLING nonsense that Maple Leafs fans put out after every game?

That being said, Wynne is a first-team player not a key player. He can be traded and if a good enough offer comes about (for a central defender and a draft pick?), we would be hard-pressed not to accept. Nana can play RB just as well as Wynne and we have a couple players that would be suited for the RM position.

Still, Wynne is a very good fullback and his pace is a tremendous asset that i think tends to get overlooked

AL-MO
07-12-2009, 07:20 PM
I am ok with wynne, but as almo said he is all speed. When someone is about to get by him he usually has to give them a two handed shove and give up a free kick.

One of my old co-workers always said he would be better suited to being a strong safety for the Buffalo Bills as opposed to being a right back for TFC. :p

Anyway I still think his speed alone brings something to the team, the problem is that is pretty much all you get.

Oldtimer
07-12-2009, 07:29 PM
Wynne is a very good player and its a little premature to call for his removal from the squad. Sure he has to develop and mature, but please, can we refrain from THE SKY IS FALLING nonsense that Maple Leafs fans put out after every game?


Welcome to Toronto. :picard:

CretanBull
07-12-2009, 08:23 PM
I can't say that anyone from season 1 in our current roster has improved their game... I'm trying to think of someone... but I can't. Marvell Wynne is 23 years old... let me rephrase that... he is 23 years old!!! He's going to mantain his speed for at least 4 more years...

I totally agree in regards to his crossing and/or control skills to break down defenders... those skills are surely lacking. However, we don't know what plans JC had for Wynne and what Cummins is currently working on for Marvell Wynne... It's cool to say he can't do this... but what if the man never gets a chance to truly improve his crossing game and/or control dribling skills... I heard once that Cummins had Barret replay every missed opportunity scenario during practice! Well almost every missed opportunity... do we think they are training Wynne that hard to cross balls and/or shake down the defence?

If Marvell Wynne leaves Toronto FC... mark my words... at 23yrs old he will improve.

I pretty much agree with where you are coming from, my only concern is that from 21 to 23 we haven't seen any improvement. I totally think that if we traded him that he'd come back to haunt us, which is why I said that if he's going to be in the MLS it might as well be with us BUT if a European team comes calling and is willing to pay a transfer fee then he's someone that we should sell.

On a related but side note, one of the problems with the NCAA system (vs. the academy system) is that players aren't playing top level football soon enough or long enough before going pro. In South America or Europe players are in professional set-ups by the time they are 14 or 15. In America, a 14 or 15 year old is a highschool freshman and is 3-4 years away from being a NCAA rookie. Very few NCAA players stay in school until their Senior year, so they're starting the training late and ending it early. I understand that he's been delayed because of injury, but O'Brian White is 23 years old and hasn't played a pro game in his life. That would be unheard of in any other country in the world.

Last year, Mike Grella was widely considered the best player in the NCAA and was the consensus #1 pick in the draft until he made it clear that he was going to Europe. When he went to Leeds, they said that they loved his raw talent (at 22 years old) and God-given ability, but developementally he was behind players 4 or 5 years younger than him.

The point that I'm getting at is that when it comes to NCAA products, it's difficult to tell at what age they'll hit their stride, or even if they'll ever reach their potential. My fear with Wynne is that he's relied on his raw talent, and hasn't shown us that he's willing to work at developing his potential into something real. As is, he's a good MLS defender. With some work, he could be a great MLS defender - one that might attract European attention.

Yohan
07-12-2009, 08:27 PM
I pretty much agree with where you are coming from, my only concern is that from 21 to 23 we haven't seen any improvement. I totally think that if we traded him that he'd come back to haunt us, which is why I said that if he's going to be in the MLS it might as well be with us BUT if a European team comes calling and is willing to pay a transfer fee then he's someone that we should sell.

On a related but side note, one of the problems with the NCAA system (vs. the academy system) is that players aren't playing top level football soon enough or long enough before going pro. In South America or Europe players are in professional set-ups by the time they are 14 or 15. In America, a 14 or 15 year old is a highschool freshman and is 3-4 years away from being a NCAA rookie. Very few NCAA players stay in school until their Senior year, so they're starting the training late and ending it early. I understand that he's been delayed because of injury, but O'Brian White is 23 years old and hasn't played a pro game in his life. That would be unheard of in any other country in the world.

Last year, Mike Grella was widely considered the best player in the NCAA and was the consensus #1 pick in the draft until he made it clear that he was going to Europe. When he went to Leeds, they said that they loved his raw talent (at 22 years old) and God-given ability, but developementally he was behind players 4 or 5 years younger than him.

The point that I'm getting at is that when it comes to NCAA products, it's difficult to tell at what age they'll hit their stride, or even if they'll ever reach their potential. My fear with Wynne is that he's relied on his raw talent, and hasn't shown us that he's willing to work at developing his potential into something real. As is, he's a good MLS defender. With some work, he could be a great MLS defender - one that might attract European attention.
hence why I think MLS should take gradual steps away from relying on NCAA to develop young talent and focus on youth academies.

MLS SuperDraft is too much of a crap shoot for my liking. You don't know exactly what you're going to get, because youth soccer coaching just isn't good enough yet.

Roogsy
07-12-2009, 08:28 PM
This thread is proof this board is bipolar.

I am ok with selling Wynne if he brings big bucks in. Otherwise, it's madness to want to trade him.

soccer69
07-12-2009, 08:31 PM
I would not trade him unless it is to Columbus. He's one of the best players you guys have.

CretanBull
07-12-2009, 08:40 PM
This thread is proof this board is bipolar.

I am ok with selling Wynne if he brings big bucks in. Otherwise, it's madness to want to trade him.

I think we're bipolar about him, because he's a bipolar player! If he was traded within the MLS he could easily come back to haunt us if he puts it all together. But if he's sold outside of the league he can't hurt us and we'd end up with some allocation money & roster flexibility that it brings.

I_AM_CANADIAN
07-12-2009, 08:46 PM
Wynne is a very good player and its a little premature to call for his removal from the squad. Sure he has to develop and mature, but please, can we refrain from THE SKY IS FALLING nonsense that Maple Leafs fans put out after every game?
+10000.

Shakes McQueen
07-12-2009, 08:47 PM
I'm all for selling Wynne if some European team comes and offers us millions for him, like Edu. I'm not for trading him to an MLS team for substantially less.

- Scott

I_AM_CANADIAN
07-12-2009, 08:50 PM
I'm all for selling Wynne if some European team comes and offers us millions for him, like Edu. I'm not for trading him to an MLS team for substantially less.

- Scott
I agree, only if Wynne gets a significant amount of playing time after returning from USMNT duty and proves that Nana should indeed be our first choice right back. I like the guy, and people have short memories, they forget that in the last couple months of the season last year Wynne was our best player. Nana has been extremely impressive and I love his game, but Wynne should still be given a fair chance to win back his spot.

Yohan
07-12-2009, 08:50 PM
I'm all for selling Wynne if some European team comes and offers us millions for him, like Edu. I'm not for trading him to an MLS team for substantially less.

- Scott
not even for Kenny Cooper? ;)

CretanBull
07-12-2009, 08:51 PM
hence why I think MLS should take gradual steps away from relying on NCAA to develop young talent and focus on youth academies.

MLS SuperDraft is too much of a crap shoot for my liking. You don't know exactly what you're going to get, because youth soccer coaching just isn't good enough yet.

I agree completely. In America, 14-15 year olds are being taught the game by highschool gym teachers who probably don't know the first thing about soccer and in rec leagues by volunteer coaches.

In England, a 14-15 year old is in an academy system being taught by a professional coach (who's probably a former Premiership player). They're around and have access to the parent club and its resources. They regularly travel to Italy, Spain, Germany and France to play in tournaments. They take part in workshops with some of the top players in the country etc. By 18-19, when an American kid is a NCAA rookie, they're probably already made a few appearances with the big club.

FluSH
07-12-2009, 08:52 PM
So in conclusion:


DO NOT TRADE WYNNE!!

CretanBull
07-12-2009, 08:53 PM
^ Do not trade Wynne, but if an offer comes along - sell him :D

Yohan
07-12-2009, 08:54 PM
So in conclusion:


DO NOT TRADE WYNNE!!

unless you get a better defender and/or millions of bucks
(or Kenny Cooper)

:D

FluSH
07-12-2009, 08:55 PM
The point that I'm getting at is that when it comes to NCAA products, it's difficult to tell at what age they'll hit their stride, or even if they'll ever reach their potential. My fear with Wynne is that he's relied on his raw talent, and hasn't shown us that he's willing to work at developing his potential into something real. As is, he's a good MLS defender. With some work, he could be a great MLS defender - one that might attract European attention.

But then again you and others here agree that if he goes to Europe he will become better? This means is not Wynne that is not willing to work... it's our current traning system that is lacking and/or the current plans that management has for Wynne.

I_AM_CANADIAN
07-12-2009, 08:55 PM
So in conclusion:


DO NOT TRADE WYNNE!!

This is essentially what it comes down to, yes. :D

FluSH
07-12-2009, 08:55 PM
^ Do not trade Wynne, but if an offer comes along - sell him :D

Well I'll agree with this



SHOW ME THE MONEY

CretanBull
07-12-2009, 09:04 PM
But then again you and others here agree that if he goes to Europe he will become better? This means is not Wynne that is not willing to work... it's our current traning system that is lacking and/or the current plans that management has for Wynne.

I don't think that Wynne will automatically be better if he goes to Europe, it just won't hurt us if he does. Say he joins Edu at Rangers and becomes a world class defender. It will suck, because it would mean that we could have got more money for him but it won't actually hurt our club. If we trade him within the MLS and he puts it all together, he could lead his team to a title - knocking us out in the process and haunt us with every appearance that he makes at BMO.

CretanBull
07-12-2009, 09:04 PM
Well I'll agree with this




SHOW ME THE MONEY


Perfect :D

Yohan
07-12-2009, 09:22 PM
There was once a highly touted MLS fullback named Jose Burciaga Jr who used to play for KC and Colorado. He had a lot of offensive gifts, esp a stinging freekick, and was an offensive threat.

However, he was a terrible defender, getting exposed by the opposition. In the end, he was released by Colorado at the end of 08 season, and at age 28, still a free agent looking for a club.

Moral of the story is that Marvell Wynne could be heading down this road very soon

prizby
07-12-2009, 09:24 PM
Serioux was much worse than Wynee last night...

he was also played out of position (LB)

Stryker
07-12-2009, 09:27 PM
We'll revisit this topic in a few weeks.
I'm fully expecting Wynne to throw out a few more stinkers; even if it is off the bench.
A la Ricketts.

AdamZ
07-12-2009, 09:40 PM
Cummins goes out of his way to praise Wynne not only for his pace but for his 'defending ability' so he's going nowhere.

Yohan
07-12-2009, 09:45 PM
Cummins goes out of his way to praise Wynne not only for his pace but for his 'defending ability' so he's going nowhere.
either Cummins has been drinking stupid juice, or he doesn't want to crush Wynne's confidence

Wynne is going to have fun trying to contain Ashe next game.

thisisinternetclash
07-12-2009, 11:30 PM
I genuinely thought that I was watching Wynne for the last time at the finale last year, and we quite pleased when he didn't leave the league in the offseason. That said, he's obviously showed some signs of regression - or at the very least a sort of premature plateauing - this season. Still, he's a quality player in this league, and provided Attakora and him can be accommodated in the same XI (which seems to be the case) I have absolutely no problem with him both staying and playing. It's all well and good to advocate a nebulous big-money transfer or beneficial trade, but those offers are unlikely to be on the table at the moment. I'd be happy to see even Guevara (for example) traded or sold if it would benefit the team; I think it's reasonable to look for ways to bolster the strength of our squad when there are apparent needs and plausible opportunities to do so. That said, as poor as he's been on occasion, Wynne isn't actively hurting the cause by being involved.

He's been a better fullback in every respect than Brennan for probably two years now, if nothing else.

nascarguy
07-12-2009, 11:37 PM
where was the topic a morth ago when he did suck before he played with the us man's team Wynne was good in the SJ game but how long before he starts to get bad again

sweetlemon69
07-13-2009, 07:33 AM
The guy isn't going to get significantly better so trade him for a good forward and some cash while we still can.
He doesn't have a head for defending and doesn't have the ball skills to be a good forward.

Couldn't agree MORE!!!

Limani_Ole
07-13-2009, 09:28 AM
didnt know we had scouts on this board..

ball skills and "head for defending" can be learned.. but his athletic ability cant..
and this is MLS after all.. he is an better than your average defender in the league for a fair price..

KdotOdot
07-13-2009, 09:43 AM
Trade Wynne?

I swear I hate people on this fucking site.

Stryker
07-13-2009, 09:50 AM
Trade Wynne?

I swear I hate people on this fucking site.

I swear people on this fucking site have hated you for quite some time.

Pachuco
07-13-2009, 09:55 AM
Wynne for a striker? That must be a joke. We have an abundance of strikers. 2 of them haven't even played for TFC yet so you may want to wait and see how they do.

Wynne is a decent defender. Don't think he'll ever be good enough for Europe, in fact, I don't think he'll break the starting lineup for USMNT consistently, but I do think he's good for MLS standards. We need him a hell of alot more then we need a striker.

We have just the right amount of depth at defense now, we don't need to be losing any defenders. We just need to sign some midfielders with the empty roster spots.

KdotOdot
07-13-2009, 10:02 AM
I swear people on this fucking site have hated you for quite some time.

But everyone is so nice to me in person. Who hates me? Is it you awwwwww did wee man catch the feeling.

HAHAHAHAAHA.

When you make foolish statements expect foolish replys. Trade Wynne...pfffft...sure pal.

Stryker
07-13-2009, 10:13 AM
^ Per the usual douchey reply I've come to expect from you.

Fort York Redcoat
07-13-2009, 10:13 AM
Trade Wynne?

I swear I hate people on this fucking site.


I swear people on this fucking site have hated you for quite some time.


But everyone is so nice to me in person.

Everyone who meets you realizes the colourful mosaic you make this place.


And they realize how big you are, K.:D

Ageroo
07-13-2009, 10:14 AM
OK......Stryker & Kdot.... settle please. First and last warning.

KdotOdot
07-13-2009, 10:20 AM
I'm just saying, trading Wynne would be a huge mistake. The man is a workhorse, he may be sloppy at times, but a work ethic like his rubs off on other players on the team.

Stryker just took it personal.

Ageroo
07-13-2009, 10:21 AM
I'm just saying, trading Wynne would be a huge mistake. The man is a workhorse, he may be sloppy at times, but a work ethic like his rubs off on other players on the team.

Stryker just took it personal.

Fair enough......good response and on topic. Thanks!

giambac
07-13-2009, 10:22 AM
The guy isn't going to get significantly better so trade him for a good forward and some cash while we still can.
He doesn't have a head for defending and doesn't have the ball skills to be a good forward.

No way man.

Wynee is a keeper. don't let him go.
he has alot of upside and is still young.
You can't teach speed and aggression which he has pletny of.

MG42
07-13-2009, 10:22 AM
Wow..trade Wynne?


:lol:

Ageroo
07-13-2009, 10:24 AM
I am with the general sentiment. I like him and yes he isn't positionally the best and is still raw in a lot of ways, but he is an animal with his work rate. I see no problem with keeping him on the roster.

If the right deal comes along then maybe....

Stryker
07-13-2009, 10:32 AM
Sorry Agroo.
The point I was trying to get across with this thread is that Wynne was at one time a very highly valued commodity in the league.
I'm of the opinion that he's shown to have not lived up to the hype and if he's still overvalued by some and we could potentially get more in return than his actual worth than we'd be foolish not to do so.

It's dissapointing that you can't discuss team weaknesses without some people reacting as if you've just kicked their dog or spit or their wife.

Derko
07-13-2009, 10:35 AM
Wynne for a striker? That must be a joke. We have an abundance of strikers. 2 of them haven't even played for TFC yet so you may want to wait and see how they do.

Wynne is a decent defender. Don't think he'll ever be good enough for Europe, in fact, I don't think he'll break the starting lineup for USMNT consistently, but I do think he's good for MLS standards. We need him a hell of alot more then we need a striker.

We have just the right amount of depth at defense now, we don't need to be losing any defenders. We just need to sign some midfielders with the empty roster spots.

Thank Christ someone with some sense has responded to this utter gibberish of trading Wynne.

:drinking::scarf:

JonO
07-13-2009, 10:36 AM
Sorry Agroo.
I'm of the opinion that he's shown to have not lived up to the hype and if he's still overvalued by some and we could potentially get more in return than his actual worth than we'd be foolish not to do so.

It's dissapointing that you can't discuss team weaknesses without some people reacting as if you've just kicked their dog or spit or their wife.
Except you never said any of this in your original post and instead suggested we trade a defender (a position we are extremely thin at) for a forward...

Stryker
07-13-2009, 10:40 AM
I never said a striker. I said a forward winger.

KdotOdot
07-13-2009, 10:43 AM
Sorry I must have forgot to take my brain medecine. what exactly is a forward winger?

Ageroo
07-13-2009, 10:51 AM
I never said a striker. I said a forward winger.

True...you never did say striker, but the way you phrased your original post....people will tend to associate forward with striker. It does tend to mean attacker....at least in this country.



The guy isn't going to get significantly better so trade him for a good forward and some cash while we still can.
He doesn't have a head for defending and doesn't have the ball skills to be a good forward.


If you feel your initial post is being misinterpreted...you should have thought over the wording. Not trying to slag the thread, but your inital post has left it wide open for criticism. I understand what you are trying to say, but you know there will always be the counter arguement. You may be defending yourself on this thread all year long.....

Parkdale
07-13-2009, 10:52 AM
I'm of the opinion that he's shown to have not lived up to the hype and if ....


Wynne is probably one of the most under-hyped players on the field.

Sure people talk about his natural speed (which is undeniable) but I
don't think anyone has ever put the weight or pressure to perform on
Wynne like they have on most other players.

remember when we got Vitti and expected a hat trick a game?
remember when we got Dero and expected to make the finals (still ongoing)?
remember the hype over Ali Gerba tearing up the league (also current)?

I can't remember anyone hyping Wynne up beyond his natural abilities.
He works damn hard, runs like the wind, and actually follows up on plays.
that's not hype, that's just earning a paycheck.

mmmikey
07-13-2009, 10:57 AM
It's MLS, toots. Life in the lower leagues. Live with it. Laugh at it.


if wynne's defending is what we should expect from MLS than i would never go to a match again.

if you found a fly in your soup and the waiter told u to be quiet or else everyone will want one, you would be happy as a pig in crap wouldnt u?

Darlofletch
07-13-2009, 11:00 AM
He's not very good defensively, constantly out of position, but he also has his benefits, basically he's an mls standard defender. I certainly wouldn't release him, but if we got something good back, I'd be fine with trading him.

A lot of people are saying his football iq isn't great, and he hasn't really developed in the last 3 years. Question is, how much of that is his fault and how much of that is down to coaching?

Aside from the horrible decision for their goal, I don't think he played that badly on saturday, he looked a bit out of his depth against Huckerby, but more or less survived.

T-Bird
07-13-2009, 11:02 AM
Trade Wynne? What the hell!?

jabbronies
07-13-2009, 11:03 AM
Wynne is only 23 years old. If by 25-26 he hasn't shown major improvment, then you can start calling him a bust.

Stryker
07-13-2009, 11:04 AM
Screw it. This is just agrivating now.
Time will tell if I'm right or wrong about Wynne.
If we go to sell your golden goose at market next year and can't get a dime for him anymore don't act surprised.

mmmikey
07-13-2009, 11:05 AM
wynne puts in a hard working shift every game. his athleticism is amazing, and some games i love watching the guy. but his defending is pretty bad at times. i'm not on the hate on wynne bandwagon, but i don't think it's fair to defenders around the league to call wynne a typical MLS defender.

his freakish athleticism saves his ass more often than not, but there is nothing wrong with expecting better from him. we can all see what he is capable of. his shortcomings lie within an aspect of his game that is very addressable with lots of practice/study. he doesn't seem to be improving though.. i worry that he is using his athleticism as a crutch now instead of a springboard to better play.

Yohan
07-13-2009, 11:08 AM
I'm just saying, trading Wynne would be a huge mistake. The man is a workhorse, he may be sloppy at times, but a work ethic like his rubs off on other players on the team.

Wynne can't do primary job of a defender, which is to defend.

Running back to catch up to the guy who blew by him is not good defending

I can't decide who's worse defensively. Velez or Wynne. Take away his speed and Wynne might as well be Velez on defensive level

Darlofletch
07-13-2009, 11:08 AM
if wynne's defending is what we should expect from MLS than i would never go to a match again.

if you found a fly in your soup and the waiter told u to be quiet or else everyone will want one, you would be happy as a pig in crap wouldnt u?

If consistent high quality play is what you're after, what the hell are you doing in the mls in the first place?

i grew up watching english 4th division football so this is actually a step up for me, but this is what watching a lower league team's all about. Putting up with the substandard play and players that aren't as good as what you watch on tv in the epl, serie a, la liga, because you love the team.

that and the constant fear that if a player plays too well, soon enough he'll bugger off to play for someone better.

KdotOdot
07-13-2009, 11:12 AM
Wynne can't do primary job of a defender, which is to defend.

Running back to catch up to the guy who blew by him is not good defending

I can't decide who's worse defensively. Velez or Wynne. Take away his speed and Wynne might as well be Velez on defensive level


Hey at least he can catch up.

Davenport
07-13-2009, 11:13 AM
wynne puts in a hard working shift every game. his athleticism is amazing, and some games i love watching the guy. but his defending is pretty bad at times. i'm not on the hate on wynne bandwagon, but i don't think it's fair to defenders around the league to call wynne a typical MLS defender.

his freakish athleticism saves his ass more often than not, but there is nothing wrong with expecting better from him. we can all see what he is capable of. his shortcomings lie within an aspect of his game that is very addressable with lots of practice/study. he doesn't seem to be improving though.. i worry that he is using his athleticism as a crutch now instead of a springboard to better play.

zzzzzzzzz.......

He's not a footballer.....end of.

mmmikey
07-13-2009, 11:16 AM
If consistent high quality play is what you're after, what the hell are you doing in the mls in the first place?

i grew up watching english 4th division football so this is actually a step up for me, but this is what watching a lower league team's all about. Putting up with the substandard play and players that aren't as good as what you watch on tv in the epl, serie a, la liga, because you love the team.

that and the constant fear that if a player plays too well, soon enough he'll bugger off to play for someone better.


im aware of what its like to watch a lower level of play.. i really enjoy watching the MLS, and even USL at times. i even watched houston/seattle yesterday (fun game to watch).

however excusing shitty defending by saying "its MLS, get used to it" is limiting your expectations needlessly. wynne is a bad defender in the MLS. but he sure does have the wheels to recover. if he was improving slowly at his marking/tacklings it would be different, but he isn't. i don't see why wynne gets a free pass and velez should take shit for his defending just because he wasn't blessed with a rocket hidden in his ass.

it's frankly, a bad argument. "this guy isn't playing well" "it's mls" "oh.. right."

DichioTFC
07-14-2009, 05:27 PM
i like wynne as a fullback (they tend to get away with being a little bit lousier defenders as long as they have good pace, passing and crossing), but i think this should be a roy halladay situation... dont actively shop him, but listen to any good offers

wynne is a valuable commodity, but one we can do without, especially considering how successful nana was while wynne was out.

trading wynne for a young central defender that can boss the backline would be ideal and something most people would favour.

TFC FORZA RPB
07-14-2009, 05:50 PM
i would rather c velez go

DoubleUp
07-14-2009, 06:21 PM
i would rather c velez go
True dat! and if we get rid of wynne make sure its for an attacking mid or wingers, we dont need anymore strikers.

CretanBull
07-14-2009, 06:45 PM
^ & ^^ The idea behind moving Wynne is to cash in on his value while its still high. Velez has no value.