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Azerban
06-30-2009, 11:58 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/the_bonus/06/29/beckham.book/index.html

An excerpt from a book coming out that goes into some detail about Beckham's failure as a player, teammate and leader in MLS. It's good enough to make me feel sympathetic for Donovan, something I had thought to be impossible.

Read this, maybe post about it. I don't care.

Yohan
06-30-2009, 12:00 PM
just remember that Landycakes has an ego sign of planet Jupiter, and he is pushing his own agenda

not to mention a huge twat (great player though!)

Azerban
06-30-2009, 12:02 PM
man you're a fast reader

Shaughno
06-30-2009, 12:03 PM
It was on Usec this morning. ;) We already had the discussion LOL

Yohan
06-30-2009, 12:04 PM
man you're a fast reader
well, I do read about 2 Tom Clancy sized novels a week ;)


and it was already posted on USector board ;)

Cuz
06-30-2009, 12:04 PM
I don't feel bad for Lady Donovan one bit. How is it that we all knew Beckham would flop and he didn't? He knew the consequences of having Beckham play in the MLS just like the rest of us. I'm honestly shocked he is even returning after failing so badly.

Yohan
06-30-2009, 12:08 PM
I don't feel bad for Lady Donovan one bit. How is it that we all knew Beckham would flop and he didn't? He knew the consequences of having Beckham play in the MLS just like the rest of us. I'm honestly shocked he is even returning after failing so badly.
Beckham did not flop. The Galaxy defence did.

Curious enough, with Donovan returning from USMNT duties, and if Becks play even half assed, Galaxy WILL make the playoffs. Same potent offence is there, and Galaxy has no longer a defence of swiss cheese. Buddle and Donovan feeding off of Becks passing is scary. (as proven last year)
Though this changes if Donovan Ricketts ever goes on injury list for a long time.

Kinda side note, but looks like last year's Galaxatives keeper Josh Wicks beat out Louis Crayton and Kosic for starting role in DC united. So it was clown combo of Xavier and Vanney that killed Gals last year. This year, rookie Gonzalez and veteran USMNT defender Berhalter is doing decent.

Cuz
06-30-2009, 12:11 PM
Beckham did not flop. The Galaxy defence did.

Curious enough, with Donovan returning from USMNT duties, and if Becks play even half assed, Galaxy WILL make the playoffs. Same potent offence is there, and Galaxy has no longer a defence of swiss cheese. Buddle and Donovan feeding off of Becks passing is scary. (as proven last year)
Though this changes if Donovan Ricketts ever goes on injury list for a long time.


Sorry for the lack of a better term for Beckham coming to America and doing absolutely nothing for the game besides selling a couple of shirts and doing more complaining than playing! Fact of the matter is, he was a huge waste of cash and LA probably would have been better off without him. I hear every year about how Beckham is going to lead LA to a cup (not the playoffs) and then they FLOP!

shwade
06-30-2009, 12:14 PM
da dun dun. Remember the people speaking are the people who were let go and bitter about it.

Yohan
06-30-2009, 12:15 PM
Sorry for the lack of a better term for Beckham coming to America and doing absolutely nothing for the game besides selling a couple of shirts and doing more complaining than playing! Fact of the matter is, he was a huge waste of cash and LA probably would have been better off without him. I hear every year about how Beckham is going to lead LA to a cup (not the playoffs) and then they FLOP!
do you know how many new fans Becks attracted to MLS? how much air time and PR Becks gave to MLS?

Becks might have not been successful for Galaxy, but that's more of that moron Lalas's fault for trading away defence in favour of offence. Trading away Joe Cannon to SJ proved to be a huge fault (and Cannon only let in 38 goals in net for SJ in 08). Lalas also traded Tyrone Marshall for Edson Buddle. With Cannon and Marshall, I'd have to say Galaxy would have been at least in the playoffs. Though kinda hard to judge on hindsight, considering Buddle did score 15 goals or something last year.

Look at Galaxy's offence and goals scored last year. Seriously. You think that's Beckham's failure?

Blizzard
06-30-2009, 12:16 PM
Sorry for the lack of a better term for Beckham coming to America and doing absolutely nothing for the game besides selling a couple of shirts and doing more complaining than playing! Fact of the matter is, he was a huge waste of cash and LA probably would have been better off without him. I hear every year about how Beckham is going to lead LA to a cup (not the playoffs) and then they FLOP!

LA lacked many things over the past two seasons ie a quality goaltender and a quality defence!

With Beckham feeding Edu and Landycakes, goals were not a problem. The defence was a problem and that comes down to management.

Beckham was not a flop. He's a class player. He hasn't let anybody down. Unfortunately, LA Galaxy as a club let the league down.

Shaughno
06-30-2009, 12:17 PM
Bingo. Blizz hit the nail square on the fucking head.

Carts
06-30-2009, 12:18 PM
I've been looking for a book to buy for a little while, I think this might be it...

I know there's three sides to every story - but I wouldn't mind reading this side...

Carts...

Parkdale
06-30-2009, 12:43 PM
I've been looking for a book to buy for a little while, I think this might be it...

it's called the Library - you get them for free!

Don Julio
06-30-2009, 12:47 PM
Though I hate everyone involved, I really think I'll enjoy this book.

Yohan
06-30-2009, 12:47 PM
it's called the Library - you get them for free!
yeah. if you like to wait for popular ones, plus never guarateed that they have that book in stock

plus you have to return the books...

Steve
06-30-2009, 12:48 PM
LA lacked many things over the past two seasons ie a quality goaltender and a quality defence!

With Beckham feeding Edu and Landycakes, goals were not a problem. The defence was a problem and that comes down to management.

Beckham was not a flop. He's a class player. He hasn't let anybody down. Unfortunately, LA Galaxy as a club let the league down.

I don't entirely agree. I don't know if I would call it a failure of Beckham's, or a failure of LA, or a failure of the league, but I don't think the Beckham experiment is the real way forward. Personally, I believe Beckham didn't give a shit about the LA galaxy, or their playoff hopes. I mean, this is a guy who has won the treble (arguably the hardest accomplishment in football), won la liga, and captained the England team. Do you really think he could muster up the competative spirit to push a struggling low league team to the top?

Essentially, when you bring forth a foreign superstar, you're going to get one of two things. Either a player still good enough to play in the big leagues, who will always be looking back there hoping, or a player who is too old and is here for a last paycheque. Either way, that isn't a player you want to captain your team, to lead your young players to victory. Again, I don't know if it's Beckham's fault, but he obviously didn't care enough to be here, and if I were on his team, I would be fucking pissed off that that was my captain too.

As for the DP rule in general, I think we need to be targetting one of two groups

1) Nationals. Players who have been superstars overseas, but who are from here (US and Canada). These players would at least have some national pride, something to play for, some reason to push themselves and their team forward (the youngsters could be the next MNT heroes)

2) Players who are late 20s early 30s, but who aren't quite good enough to be stars in the best leagues in the world. It's like taking a striker off before he's scored too many goals. You want them to still be hungry. You want them to have played for teams that didn't quite make it. You want them to try to prove themselves, instead of (like Beckham) knowing the job is already done.

prizby
06-30-2009, 12:51 PM
best part



Not long after they took their table, the waiter asked if anyone wanted wine. They all raised their hands. "O.K.," the waiter said. "I need to see some I.D.'s."
"I don't have my I.D. with me," Beckham said.
"No I.D., no wine!" the waiter announced, theatrically snatching Beckham's wineglass.
Beckham thought it was a put-on. "Is this guy taking the piss?" he asked. But the waiter was serious. When the Galaxy's Portuguese defender Abel Xavier couldn't produce an I.D., his wineglass disappeared too. "What is this?" the 34-year-old Xavier thundered. "I have a kid who can drink." The other players laughed hysterically


LOL several times

prizby
06-30-2009, 12:53 PM
Beckham did not flop. The Galaxy defence did.


did you read the article...3rd page where beckham would wave eveyrone forward, do al ong pass miss, and LA got counter attacked wiht a bunch of players out of position

Yohan
06-30-2009, 12:58 PM
did you read the article...3rd page where beckham would wave eveyrone forward, do al ong pass miss, and LA got counter attacked wiht a bunch of players out of position
if you think that was the only problem with Galaxy defence, you need to have a look at couple of Galaxy games from last year

ensco
06-30-2009, 01:07 PM
Donovan is totally out of line. If he's got something to say, he should say it directly to Beckham, or Leiweke. The time to talk to journalists about this is long after the fact. This is a huge distraction for the Galaxy today.

Also it's unfair. Not that I think Beckham is an innocent victim here, but most sports teams, and all losing teams, have these sorts of problems going on.

Cashcleaner
06-30-2009, 01:08 PM
Oh my Lord. That article was a real eye-opener. The Galaxy gives players a $45 diem for food and drinks on the road?!

I know the rest of you are probably more interested in the dynamics between Donovan and Beckham, but I'm trying to read more into the dynamics of the club/league and everyone else.

djking2
06-30-2009, 01:08 PM
Frankly I think if Beckham had come in and LA dominated the league for three straight years it would have been a far greater failure for the MLS in that all those who feel that the MLS is of such poor calibre it doesn't rate their attention would have had a point to prove their position. Like many, I accept that our league will never play at the calibre of the big four in Europe or Brazil among others but it's still got a long way to go just to get the credit it deserves. So I say fuck what anybody else thinks. Becks sold lots of jerseys raised the profile and put a lot of cute asses in seats which is enough success for me.

C.Ronaldo
06-30-2009, 01:13 PM
^ we are not even at the point that we can consistently beat USL teams, let alone big 4

Dirk Diggler
06-30-2009, 01:17 PM
Oh my Lord. That article was a real eye-opener. The Galaxy gives players a $45 diem for food and drinks on the road?!

I know the rest of you are probably more interested in the dynamics between Donovan and Beckham, but I'm trying to read more into the dynamics of the club/league and everyone else.

I don't think professional athletes get huge per diem ... I don't even know why they do it anymore .

TicTacTabarnack
06-30-2009, 01:26 PM
Oh my Lord. That article was a real eye-opener. The Galaxy gives players a $45 diem for food and drinks on the road?!

I know the rest of you are probably more interested in the dynamics between Donovan and Beckham, but I'm trying to read more into the dynamics of the club/league and everyone else.

$45 per diem is as per MLS Players Collective Bargaining Agreement.

It's amazing to see the inside scoop on the dynamics of the club/league... Beckham's a very weak as a leader. Not sure if it's more of a "title" than a "role" ... Interesting to see the cultural differences in soccer. But these differences are also ever present in the Corporate World too.

Cashcleaner
06-30-2009, 01:29 PM
I don't think professional athletes get huge per diem ... I don't even know why they do it anymore .

Oh yes they do. The NBA is a good example. Not only that, but when the dresscode was getting worked out between the league and NBA Players association, they demanded an allowance be paid by the teams for dress suits and sports coats. Basically we would have multi-millionaire basketball players having the clubs themselves pitch in for their dress clothes.

TicTacTabarnack
06-30-2009, 01:32 PM
Donovan didn't know what would come next, but he did know that things would have to change if he and Beckham were teammates in 2009. "Let's say he does stay here three more years," Donovan said. "I'm not going to spend the next three years of my life doing it this way. This is f------ miserable. I don't want to have soccer be this way."

I wonder if some other team is looking to sign him before Beckham's return?

Yohan
06-30-2009, 01:33 PM
Oh yes they do. The NBA is a good example. Not only that, but when the dresscode was getting worked out between the league and NBA Players association, they demanded an allowance be paid by the teams for dress suits and sports coats. Basically we would have multi-millionaire basketball players having the clubs themselves pitch in for their dress clothes.
except this is not for the benefit of those multimillionaires in MLS (which there aren't many lol)

that 45 bucks count, if you only make like 40k per year

Yohan
06-30-2009, 01:34 PM
I wonder if some other team is looking to sign him before Beckham's return?
no friggingg way Galaxatives is going to trade Donovan just to have Beckham for another 6 months

Beckham is gone by end of this season most likely

TicTacTabarnack
06-30-2009, 01:36 PM
no friggingg way Galaxatives is going to trade Donovan just to have Beckham for another 6 months

Beckham is gone by end of this season most likely

True say.

flatpicker
06-30-2009, 01:38 PM
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/LAfun.jpg

Yohan
06-30-2009, 01:41 PM
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/LAfun.jpg
oh dear lord

bastard. you just ruined my appetite for lunch :(:(

Cashcleaner
06-30-2009, 01:42 PM
except this is not for the benefit of those multimillionaires in MLS (which there aren't many lol)

that 45 bucks count, if you only make like 40k per year

Oh for sure. Thats what I meant, though. $45 per day isn't much to go on, and I bet the player's association had to really fight just to get that. Heck, my old work gave me a limit of $100 and I was just a production controller at the time.

The amount of compensation MLS players get is a travesty.

ensco
06-30-2009, 01:53 PM
Landycakes has dusted the field in the "MLS Worst Teammate 2009" category.

rocker
06-30-2009, 01:57 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/becksnlandyei7-1.gif

CoachGT
06-30-2009, 02:01 PM
Oh for sure. Thats what I meant, though. $45 per day isn't much to go on, and I bet the player's association had to really fight just to get that. Heck, my old work gave me a limit of $100 and I was just a production controller at the time.

The amount of compensation MLS players get is a travesty.

I wonder whether the per diem is part of the collective bargaining agreement or set by the teams individually. My guess would be part of the agreement, which is an indication that MLS needs to step into the 21st century when renegotiating this year.

Yohan
06-30-2009, 02:02 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/PhJD/becksnlandyei7-1.gif

oh my god my eyes!!!!

*stabs himself*

DichioTFC
06-30-2009, 02:04 PM
I cant say that I'm truly surprised, but the Beckham experiment was long-term, not short-term. Sure the MLS didnt intend to ruin the Galaxy, but Beckham was brought in to raise the profile of the league on a global stage and create domestic interest.

The experiment worked in some places and it has failed in others (Dallas, LA). But I think the MLS has now learnt that the best business practice is to find loyal and passionate fans like Toronto and Seattle. We come from a culture based in Europe for the most part, so football is big to us. Seattle lost their basketball team, so they were dying for something to fill the void and are now rivaling us for the MLS' most passionate fanbase.

In hindsight, if I worked for MLS, I would have ran the Beckham experiment again because it had the potential to be the right move. But in the future I would find better markets that are passionate, not just profitable.

My $0.02, I'll get off my soapbox now.
:)

CoachGT
06-30-2009, 02:13 PM
From the perspective that it raised the profile and got people both in the US and outside the US talking about MLS, even for a short period of time, the experiment was successful.

From the perspective of filling MLS stadiums around the league, some that had rarely seen large crowds, the experiment was successful.

But it also had a detrimental effect on the league by exposing a significant weakness, in that you had players playing alongside him making $12,000 a year. And it also showed that a team cannot have one, two or three main stars and very little else and be competitive.

And it apparently has had a very significant effect on the LA team, the MLS team that boasts the biggest profits. Will that continue post Becks? Unlikely.

TicTacTabarnack
06-30-2009, 02:26 PM
I wonder whether the per diem is part of the collective bargaining agreement or set by the teams individually. My guess would be part of the agreement, which is an indication that MLS needs to step into the 21st century when renegotiating this year.

MLS Players Union CBA (http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/collective_bargaining_agreement__final.pdf)

Section 10.9 Per Diem Allowance: Player per diem while on an MLS road trip shall be paid at
the rates set forth below. When a Team is on the road for less than a full day, a partial per diem
shall be paid, based upon the time of departure from or arrival in the Team’s home city:
(i) Departure after 9:00 a.m./arrival before 7:00 a.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 7:00 a.m.
and 9:00 a.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no breakfast expense;
(ii) Departure after 1:00 p.m./arrival before 11:30 a.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 11:30 a.m.
and 1:00 p.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no lunch expense;
(iii) Departure after 7:00 p.m./arrival before 5:30 p.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 5:30 p.m.
and 7:00 p.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no dinner expense.
26
(iv) If a road trip is 3 days or less, the total trip per diem shall be paid in a lump sum at
the time of departure. If longer than 3 days, per diem shall be paid in two (2) equal payments.
(v) A Team may arrange for prepared meals for all or part of the per diem if it
chooses. Airline meals shall not cause a reduction in the per diem allowance. Per diem money
lost by a Player will not be replaced.
(vi) Rates
2004: $41.00 ($8 for breakfast; $10 for lunch; $23 for dinner)
2005: $43.00 ($8 for breakfast; $10 for lunch; $25 for dinner)
2006: $44.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $25 for dinner)
2007: $45.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $26 for dinner)
2008: $47.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $28 for dinner)
2009: $50.00 ($8 for breakfast; $12 for lunch; $30 for dinner)

DichioTFC
06-30-2009, 02:45 PM
MLS Players Union CBA (http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/collective_bargaining_agreement__final.pdf)

Section 10.9 Per Diem Allowance: Player per diem while on an MLS road trip shall be paid at
the rates set forth below. When a Team is on the road for less than a full day, a partial per diem
shall be paid, based upon the time of departure from or arrival in the Team’s home city:
(i) Departure after 9:00 a.m./arrival before 7:00 a.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 7:00 a.m.
and 9:00 a.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no breakfast expense;
(ii) Departure after 1:00 p.m./arrival before 11:30 a.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 11:30 a.m.
and 1:00 p.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no lunch expense;
(iii) Departure after 7:00 p.m./arrival before 5:30 p.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 5:30 p.m.
and 7:00 p.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no dinner expense.
26
(iv) If a road trip is 3 days or less, the total trip per diem shall be paid in a lump sum at
the time of departure. If longer than 3 days, per diem shall be paid in two (2) equal payments.
(v) A Team may arrange for prepared meals for all or part of the per diem if it
chooses. Airline meals shall not cause a reduction in the per diem allowance. Per diem money
lost by a Player will not be replaced.
(vi) Rates
2004: $41.00 ($8 for breakfast; $10 for lunch; $23 for dinner)
2005: $43.00 ($8 for breakfast; $10 for lunch; $25 for dinner)
2006: $44.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $25 for dinner)
2007: $45.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $26 for dinner)
2008: $47.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $28 for dinner)
2009: $50.00 ($8 for breakfast; $12 for lunch; $30 for dinner)


There should be a cap where per diem will not be covered. It doesnt make sense for Becks or any other DP to have a per diem.

And the wage has to go up across the board. Hopefully in 5-10 years the MLS wont have this problem any more.

CoachGT
06-30-2009, 07:13 PM
MLS Players Union CBA (http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/collective_bargaining_agreement__final.pdf)

Section 10.9 Per Diem Allowance: Player per diem while on an MLS road trip shall be paid at
the rates set forth below. When a Team is on the road for less than a full day, a partial per diem
shall be paid, based upon the time of departure from or arrival in the Team’s home city:
(i) Departure after 9:00 a.m./arrival before 7:00 a.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 7:00 a.m.
and 9:00 a.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no breakfast expense;
(ii) Departure after 1:00 p.m./arrival before 11:30 a.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 11:30 a.m.
and 1:00 p.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no lunch expense;
(iii) Departure after 7:00 p.m./arrival before 5:30 p.m., and the Club does not hold a
practice, required meeting or any other event requiring a Player’s attendance between 5:30 p.m.
and 7:00 p.m., lasting more than thirty (30) minutes - no dinner expense.
26
(iv) If a road trip is 3 days or less, the total trip per diem shall be paid in a lump sum at
the time of departure. If longer than 3 days, per diem shall be paid in two (2) equal payments.
(v) A Team may arrange for prepared meals for all or part of the per diem if it
chooses. Airline meals shall not cause a reduction in the per diem allowance. Per diem money
lost by a Player will not be replaced.
(vi) Rates
2004: $41.00 ($8 for breakfast; $10 for lunch; $23 for dinner)
2005: $43.00 ($8 for breakfast; $10 for lunch; $25 for dinner)
2006: $44.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $25 for dinner)
2007: $45.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $26 for dinner)
2008: $47.00 ($8 for breakfast; $11 for lunch; $28 for dinner)
2009: $50.00 ($8 for breakfast; $12 for lunch; $30 for dinner)


Thanks for this. pretty much as I had expected.

Funny about airline meals - you can't buy much on a plane for breakfast or lunch for those rates. Can't you just see players brown bagging it on the plane?

Beach_Red
06-30-2009, 07:34 PM
What exactly did people think would happen bringing Beckham to MLS? Did anyone really think one guy making $40 million and others making twenty grand would work as a team?

I can understand that investors in MLS are impatient for their sport to become profitable, but really what were the chances for "success" with this move?

jloome
06-30-2009, 07:49 PM
Landycakes has dusted the field in the "MLS Worst Teammate 2009" category.

These comments were obviously all made to Wahl over a period of time. I like the fact that, because we dislike Donovan, the automatic assumption is that he's either lying for self-interest or simply a bad guy for airing dirty laundry.

Sometimes, airing dirty laundry beats wearing dirty laundry.

Cashcleaner
06-30-2009, 08:06 PM
What exactly did people think would happen bringing Beckham to MLS? Did anyone really think one guy making $40 million and others making twenty grand would work as a team?

I can understand that investors in MLS are impatient for their sport to become profitable, but really what were the chances for "success" with this move?

What gets to me most about the whole Beckham is the missed opportunity for him to effect change within the league itself. Beckham could have pointed out a myriad of issues from problematic officiating to player transfer policies to revenue-sharing. Instead, he basically avoided speaking out on any of those issues and just did what he was told.

The real shame is that with so many eyes on him, he could have really forced the league to change its ways, but decided to just stick to the script.

K1nG
06-30-2009, 08:11 PM
why would you quote VPjr like that? I am sure you are taking something out of context. Maybe he didn't want everyone to think that everything was okay because we beat a CSL/USL bench club. Maybe the Real game woke you up.

Dirk Diggler
06-30-2009, 08:13 PM
Completely agree with Beachred and jloome.

ensco
06-30-2009, 08:20 PM
These comments were obviously all made to Wahl over a period of time. I like the fact that, because we dislike Donovan, the automatic assumption is that he's either lying for self-interest or simply a bad guy for airing dirty laundry.

Sometimes, airing dirty laundry beats wearing dirty laundry.

I'm curious, jloome, how many athletes in any sport have you seen say "he's not a good teammate" about someone they still share a locker room with? It doesn't happen often, especially not in the bigtime sports.

Listen, I think Beckham's a self-centered dick, so yeah, a plague on all their houses.....but Landycakes should have waited until Beckham was gone before doing this. Out of self-interest if nothing else.

You just don't do what Donovan did here, whatever the provocation. Lots of people will conclude LD's just as much of a cancer as Beckham is/was.

Beach_Red
06-30-2009, 08:30 PM
What gets to me most about the whole Beckham is the missed opportunity for him to effect change within the league itself. Beckham could have pointed out a myriad of issues from problematic officiating to player transfer policies to revenue-sharing. Instead, he basically avoided speaking out on any of those issues and just did what he was told.

The real shame is that with so many eyes on him, he could have really forced the league to change its ways, but decided to just stick to the script.


Well it's not like the league isn't aware of its problems (although the league certainly doesn't see revenue-sharing as a problem, but rather the only way they can get investors).

The biggest problem the league has, of course, is that it doesn't sell enough tickets or get high enough TV ratings. Well, I guess the biggest problem the league has is figuring out how to sell more tickets and get higher TV ratings. The Beckham experiment tells them what everyone who ever saw a NASL game could have told them - foreign stars don't build a grassroots, sustained interest in soccer in America.

Keeping in mind that ticket prices will rise at about the same rate as the salary cap, the league has to be careful. This looks like a case where slow and steady growth will win out.

Chevy
06-30-2009, 08:50 PM
I don't think professional athletes get huge per diem ... I don't even know why they do it anymore .

Interesting (but old) article on Pro Per-Diems.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nba/article/0,2777,DRMN_23922_5427887,00.html

Roogsy
06-30-2009, 09:36 PM
I think Donovan is taking a bullet for the rest of the team. Normally I would agree that a teammate should not come out and say this, but as captain Donovan is trying to save the team from a cancer, I gotta admit, I admire the bastard for doing it. You gotta have balls to say this stuff about the biggest soccer star in the world.

He's still a douchebag though. LOL!

$50 per diem? On the road? Ridiculous. I spend more than that.

ensco
06-30-2009, 11:17 PM
What are LA soccer fans supposed to do? Cheer for Beckham? Boo him? Either way, you feel like a putz.

And as for Donovan, who is he kidding? Mr Ultimate Team Man would have stayed at Leverkusen, or Bayern, in a flash, if they would have had him. The jerk should've had it out with Beckham in the room - that's what a "teammate" does.

I truly feel sorry for the Riot Squad and the real LA soccer fans.

RedMAN127
06-30-2009, 11:47 PM
$50 per diem? On the road? Ridiculous. I spend more than that.


especially if they are paying BMO prices, four beers no tip!

DichioTFC
07-01-2009, 02:10 AM
I think Donovan is taking a bullet for the rest of the team. Normally I would agree that a teammate should not come out and say this, but as captain Donovan is trying to save the team from a cancer, I gotta admit, I admire the bastard for doing it. You gotta have balls to say this stuff about the biggest soccer star in the world.

He's still a douchebag though. LOL!

$50 per diem? On the road? Ridiculous. I spend more than that.

I honestly liked Donovan before this but now I hate the balding prick. This was unprofessional and childish. This is something we could expect from C. Ronaldo or Carlos Tevez, but not the captain of the US national team (who, for the most part, are determined and professional individuals).

Professionalism and leadership are their own rewards. He lost the armband, he complained (who's the bad captain now?). Beckham didnt pay for his meal, he complained (who's the bad person now?). He led the MLS in scoring, he complained (who's the bad teammate now?). He lost his hair, he complained... well, not yet, but Im sure he'll find a reason to make it Becks fault.

Sure Beckham was an ass, but Donny-wah is pretty much filling up a tell-all book to settle some childish vendetta ("Beckham didnt respond to my text message in the manner I would have liked, wah-wah-wah".. he should be happy that Beckham gave Donny-wah his number!!).

You don't need an armband to lead, and, in Landon's case, you don't need to be a good tackler to take down the best player in the league.

ensco
07-01-2009, 08:10 AM
Interesting comment from a Galaxy supporter on BS.....

Boy, that's just what this team needed. Landon comes back from SA this week, the team just upset one of the best teams in the league and now this bombshell.

I have a lot of respect for Grant Wahl, and the fact that Vanney and Klein are quoted too only lends to the credibility and accuracy of his description of this entire debacle.

It never ceases to amaze me how utterly ********ed up AEG is. My God, what have they done to my team? Could you imagine Beckham's "handlers" pulling this shit at Manchester United? The sheer stupidity of all those involved.

Credit to Alexi for not crying in public when he had every right to. He took one for the team from where I'm sitting. That doesn't make him a good GM, but a better guy than I thought.

Gullit was as billed, a lousy coach. Donovan has to take a little responsibility here. Texting him after the game about tactics? The only thing he should have texted was "Where are you having dinner tonight because we need to talk." Becks will not get booed by me. If he comes back and busts his ass, and we get into the playoffs, that's all I care about. If he dogs it or destroys the locker room then Bruce Arena needs to have the balls to sit him down or ship him out.

I don't see how any of this helps the Galaxy right now. I don't have any faith that our F/O will learn a thing from all this, in fact I imagine they are writing new excuses as we sit here.

Roogsy
07-01-2009, 11:18 AM
^ I pretty much agree with the Galaxy supporter.

If there is anything I disagree with it's Donovan's direct avoidance of Beckham. What are they, high school girls? Talking over text? What's next, facebook?

Stand up, be a man, and discuss it in person. Gawd...your lockers are beside each other.

The biggest culprit in all this? AEG. Utterly ridiculous what they did. Yeah Beckham is the star but they are still the owners and they completely messed up the chemistry in the locker room.

FluSH
07-01-2009, 11:20 AM
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/brushstroke-man/LAfun.jpg


this made me Laugh all day yesterday....

Cashcleaner
07-01-2009, 11:51 PM
Well it's not like the league isn't aware of its problems (although the league certainly doesn't see revenue-sharing as a problem, but rather the only way they can get investors).

The biggest problem the league has, of course, is that it doesn't sell enough tickets or get high enough TV ratings. Well, I guess the biggest problem the league has is figuring out how to sell more tickets and get higher TV ratings. The Beckham experiment tells them what everyone who ever saw a NASL game could have told them - foreign stars don't build a grassroots, sustained interest in soccer in America.

Keeping in mind that ticket prices will rise at about the same rate as the salary cap, the league has to be careful. This looks like a case where slow and steady growth will win out.

Oh, I have a feeling the league knows exactly what is wrong. That's the problem, they don't seem interested in doing anything to rectify things anytime soon. I just think Beckham could have been the one to point out the issues and maybe get some movement started on them because I think the rest of the sporting world doesn't really understand the fundamentals of the league's business concept.

TFC247
07-02-2009, 12:47 AM
I'm not saying the book is true, but would it be that far fectched? I've seen one too many cases of aging "star" players coming over to MLS only to mail it in. I'm not saying Beckham is one of them, and he could've very well been fully committed at the beginning, But as the losses mount and as dysfunctional as Galaxy is/was, could anyone blame him?

IMO, it probably is not as one sided as the excerpt, but the blame lies somewhere in between. There's obviously lack of understanding beteen Beckahm and his "American" teammates, a league that is not yet respected, and throw in your usual incompetence of AEG and, Voila, there's your circus. Although I would think winning would've cured alot of that.

Pookie
07-02-2009, 07:03 AM
It's an interesting situation on a couple of fronts.

Does the league needs stars to expand and grow?

Beckham was good for LA's business. LA's revenue is almost double that $30M of its nearest competitor (Toronto, $17M).

Beckham was good for other team's business. Even in Toronto where 1,000 Season Tickets were sold on the day the signing was announced.

The Galaxy with Beckham were a good draw on the road and good for TV ratings when he was involved.

So, yes having a superstar does boost business.

But it's not sustainable. Once the interest drops (or the player becomes interested in something else), so to do the gains. LA's attendance is down 28% without him.

That's not a good business model. What is encouraging is that newer teams are marketing based on "community" and sense of team. Seattle is bigger than their DP. Toronto FC is Toronto FC with or without Edu, De Rosario, etc. We love 'em but when they go, we will still love the team that is left.

Do you need a DP/Star to win?

I think the debate on this one goes forever. Teams win with one and teams win without one. If you are going to spend your money on one, it probably has to be the right one with ties to North America.

Further, it can't be an overly expensive one or else it can impact the sense of team within the locker room given wage disparities.

It also cannot result in needing a massive bump in ticket prices to pay for one as that will destroy the fans' sense of loyalty to a team and push the club in a more "star driven" direction... which just isn't a long term plan.

Beach_Red
07-02-2009, 07:18 AM
Oh, I have a feeling the league knows exactly what is wrong. That's the problem, they don't seem interested in doing anything to rectify things anytime soon. I just think Beckham could have been the one to point out the issues and maybe get some movement started on them because I think the rest of the sporting world doesn't really understand the fundamentals of the league's business concept.

You may be right that the rest of the world doesn't understand the league's business concept, but it's really the only one that will work in the USA right now. So many sports leagues have failed in the last 25 years that we're getting a pretty good idea of what doesn't work here.

One thing the Beckham experiment proved is that left to their own devices team owners will turn MLS into NASL II and it'll fold. I've said it before, billionaires can't be trusted.

MLS is moving too slowly for us, but it's expanding as fast as it can, adding new teams all over North America. Once expansion stops and attendance goes up (if it does) and a proper national TV contract can be negotiated, a lot of issues will get money thrown at them.

If the league survives.

What "problems" do you think a league in which almost every team is still losing money could be addressed right now?

Pookie
07-02-2009, 08:25 AM
^ though I'm poking in on your debate, I'd suggest that the one of the major "problems" that it could address is being addressed through expansion. That is of fan interest.

The costs are controlled so any boost in revenue inches you closer to profit. Fan interest leads to bigger gates. Bigger gates lead to more fruitful TV negotiations and merchandise.

Passionate cities within close distance will encourage local and visiting support and create the excitement and atmosphere that will sell.

The Seattle-Portland-Vancouver mix is simply bang on. 3 relatively passionate soccer cities all within close distance.

I'm not sure why the NY-New England-DC mix hasn't been as popular but it could have something to do with the stadiums.

Adding Philadelphia offers something for that mix, particularly with the new stadium coming in NY.

Expansion with passion and proximity in mind should bode well for business over the long term.

Beach_Red
07-02-2009, 08:43 AM
^ I think you're right, so therfore I don't mind you poking in at all.

OneLoveOneEric
07-02-2009, 08:50 AM
I think I'm a bit late to this, but how anyone can applaud Donovan's comments is beyond me. Say whatever you will about Beckham, but he's never been described as anything but a model professional by teammates and coaches. And he's worked with some of the biggest prima donna egos in the world -- and they all love him.
Landon is a half-assed football player who rode his luck off to Germany and came home with his tail between his legs so that he could be a big fish in a small pond again. Then along came this way bigger fish, who made people realize that Landon is barely a fish at all, and poor little Landon got upset about it.
His comments stink of the sourest grapes I've smelt.

bertal
07-02-2009, 08:59 AM
landycakes is just mad because he couldn't make it in europe.

the man is just another baseless sports star

Davenport
07-02-2009, 09:04 AM
Donovan has every right to have a go at Beckham.

Beckham doesn't want to be in the States any more, his talentless wife couldn't make it in Hollywood and he's realised the football isn't up to much.
That coupled with the fact that he paid some of his own way to go to Milan on loan, shows how much he wants to get out. He deserves all the stick thrown at him.

I can understand why it leaves a very bad taste in LA's mouth

Beach_Red
07-02-2009, 09:07 AM
In this discussion, Donovan is irrrelevant.

That stuff's just gossip and is bound to happen whenever one guy is paid so much more than everyone else in a team sport. If it hadn't been Donovan, it would have been someone else. It's a little bit interesting that people (team management and Beckham's management) didn't see it coming, but I doubt anyone involved in management cared what any MLS player thought.

ensco
07-02-2009, 10:57 AM
In this discussion, Donovan is irrrelevant.

That stuff's just gossip and is bound to happen whenever one guy is paid so much more than everyone else in a team sport. If it hadn't been Donovan, it would have been someone else. It's a little bit interesting that people (team management and Beckham's management) didn't see it coming, but I doubt anyone involved in management cared what any MLS player thought.

Not a current teammate, going on the record like that. It's a serious, rarely seen, total dickhead thing to do.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-02-2009, 11:27 AM
Had Ladycakes been offered a starting position at Bayern he would have point pen to paper in a flash.

As far as Beckham being unprofessional and lacking commitment, Donovan is the first person in football I've ever heard question it. Every where Golden Balls has gone he has impressed with his commitment to his craft and thirst for the game itself.

Landon's comments amount to a bitch slap.

rocker
07-02-2009, 11:42 AM
landon is jealous that he has less hair than Beckham

fdasilva
07-02-2009, 11:52 AM
From ESPN:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=658604&sec=mls&cc=5901


"All that we care about at a minimum is that he committed himself to us," Donovan says in 'The Beckham Experiment', authored by Sports Illustrated writer Grant Wahl.


"As time has gone on, that has not proven to be the case in many ways - on the field, off the field.


"Maybe he's not a leader, maybe he's not a captain," he said. "Fair enough. But at a minimum, you should bust your ass every day. That hasn't happened. And I don't think that's too much for us to expect. Especially when he's brought all this on us."


"Let's say he does stay here for three more years," Donovan said. "I'm not going to spend the next three years of my life doing it this way. This is f****** miserable. I don't want to have soccer be this way."

Roogsy
07-02-2009, 11:55 AM
Already being discussed here:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=15055

Moving it over...

fdasilva
07-02-2009, 11:56 AM
whoopsies, you can delete this thread then.

or merge, whatever :P

Roogsy
07-02-2009, 12:03 PM
Doesn't ESPN have it wrong in their article?

Yallop was Beckham's coach the first year.

Gullit came after Yallop left for the Earthquakes.

Poor reporting there guys.

Cashcleaner
07-02-2009, 12:49 PM
You may be right that the rest of the world doesn't understand the league's business concept, but it's really the only one that will work in the USA right now. So many sports leagues have failed in the last 25 years that we're getting a pretty good idea of what doesn't work here.

One thing the Beckham experiment proved is that left to their own devices team owners will turn MLS into NASL II and it'll fold. I've said it before, billionaires can't be trusted.

MLS is moving too slowly for us, but it's expanding as fast as it can, adding new teams all over North America. Once expansion stops and attendance goes up (if it does) and a proper national TV contract can be negotiated, a lot of issues will get money thrown at them.

If the league survives.

What "problems" do you think a league in which almost every team is still losing money could be addressed right now?

I think there is a fundamental problem with the league's culture as a wealth-generating entity. I don't think it should be. I'd much rather see a more hands-off approach from the league and more independence from the individual clubs. Perhaps we would have more profitability if the teams themselves were responsible for more of their marketing and promotion. Player transactions, tournament prizes, etc. - They all have the league sticking its hands in the pot first followed by the club. I think perhaps we should be taking an approach similar to other North American sporting organizations where the league's profits take a backseat to those of the teams.

Yohan
07-02-2009, 12:56 PM
I think there is a fundamental problem with the league's culture as a wealth-generating entity. I don't think it should be. I'd much rather see a more hands-off approach from the league and more independence from the individual clubs. Perhaps we would have more profitability if the teams themselves were responsible for more of their marketing and promotion. Player transactions, tournament prizes, etc. - They all have the league sticking its hands in the pot first followed by the club. I think perhaps we should be taking an approach similar to other North American sporting organizations where the league's profits take a backseat to those of the teams.
clubs tend to not exercise financial responsibility...

DichioTFC
07-02-2009, 01:23 PM
I think there is a fundamental problem with the league's culture as a wealth-generating entity. I don't think it should be. I'd much rather see a more hands-off approach from the league and more independence from the individual clubs. Perhaps we would have more profitability if the teams themselves were responsible for more of their marketing and promotion. Player transactions, tournament prizes, etc. - They all have the league sticking its hands in the pot first followed by the club. I think perhaps we should be taking an approach similar to other North American sporting organizations where the league's profits take a backseat to those of the teams.

MLS is still a new league, and as such, its probably better that they're taking responsibility of marketing and promotions. MLB & NFL clubs are great at promoting their product, but they've been around for many years and know what they're doing. I think its reasonable that MLS has oversight on the product and its development domestically (i.e. in the States).

For the most part, on a national stage (in America), MLS' main competition is the NHL. They're both trying to develop in the sunbelt, and some markets are having attendance issues. I had FTA American satellite (before it went down! those bastards...:(), and I saw Fox Sports play pretty much every game and ESPN 2 with their game of the week. NHL was on Versus (which nobody gets) and NBC only picked up a handful of games. MLS' strategy of slow, progressive growth with attention to detail (marketshare over revenue) is the right move. Its a new, exciting product and the American players in MLS are more prominent than their NHL counterparts (obviously, a big deal to American viewers).

My idea is to have the American clubs play friendlies with local college clubs. College sports are a huge deal in the states, it would generate interest in the club, interest in the league and bring in revenue.

Yohan
07-02-2009, 01:45 PM
My idea is to have the American clubs play friendlies with local college clubs. College sports are a huge deal in the states, it would generate interest in the club, interest in the league and bring in revenue.
College basketball? yeah. College football? Hell ya.

College soccer?

....I dunno

I think some teams are playing local college teams some reserve friendlies games already

Beach_Red
07-02-2009, 02:23 PM
I think there is a fundamental problem with the league's culture as a wealth-generating entity. I don't think it should be. I'd much rather see a more hands-off approach from the league and more independence from the individual clubs. Perhaps we would have more profitability if the teams themselves were responsible for more of their marketing and promotion. Player transactions, tournament prizes, etc. - They all have the league sticking its hands in the pot first followed by the club. I think perhaps we should be taking an approach similar to other North American sporting organizations where the league's profits take a backseat to those of the teams.

The most successful North American league is the NFL in which the league controls the pot almost completely - because the pot is almost completely generated by TV revenue. Every team in the NFL takes a backsteat to the league. A few have slightly more operating capital than the rest but not enough to make a differnce (Pittsburgh and Detroit, for exaple, have almost exactly the same budgets - but very different numbers of Super Bowl rings).

And now all the other leagues are trying to copy that structure - it's why they have luxury taxes and salary caps.

No league in North America where the teams' profits take the lead over the league has survived. In every case what's happened has been two or three teams dominate and the rest fold. NASL, WFL, WHA, USFL - you name it.

The team-first idea isn't working in any sport because TV revenue is league-generated. The team-first idea would work if a league was entirely gate-receipt funded, but that would never be more than a minor league. That's the NHL's problem. Without a major, national TV contract it's a gate-receipt league , which means either they let teams fold or move to Hamilton or prop them up. That's not a business model many investors would get into with a new sports league.

The Beckham experiment was a disaster proven in other leagues, there was no reason to repeat it. I forget who suggsted that instead of playing for LA he should have just played a game for each team. As dumb an idea as that is, it would have had the same effect on the league.

lufc1919
07-02-2009, 02:30 PM
Too good for the MLS, should have came here when he was 36/37.

koryo
07-04-2009, 11:58 AM
Interesting read, but had that "blame the foreigner" stench about it.

Blizzard sums it up best above.

Pookie
07-04-2009, 12:10 PM
And now all the other leagues are trying to copy that structure - it's why they have luxury taxes and salary caps.


On a related note, did you read the comments from UEFA President Michel Platini, yesterday?

"UEFA president Michel Platini wants to stop clubs like Real Madrid embarking on spending sprees using borrowed money by changing entry rules for the Champions League to ensure that players' salaries and transfer fees are proportionate to a club's income.

Big spending has come into sharp focus with Madrid using bank loans to buy three of the game's most sought-after players in the last month for more than $328 million, including world player of the year Cristiano Ronaldo.

European football's ruling body said Thursday it wanted the financial constraints, which would also cover the new Europa League, to be finalized in September ready for a phased introduction.

... Platini has made curbing excessive spending by clubs his top priority in order to maintain their long-term sustainability.

"The only club which did not have debts this season was Barcelona, while all others lived beyond their means," Platini said. "In the future we will see to it that clubs have enough funds to finance the players. UEFA will be more active in this process."

... from Sports Illustrated

koryo
07-04-2009, 12:11 PM
^^ About time. Good find.

jloome
07-04-2009, 12:30 PM
Not a current teammate, going on the record like that. It's a serious, rarely seen, total dickhead thing to do.

Dude, Beckham's presence has basically gutted the Galaxy. If Wahl is correct and his agent's firm is basically running the team, while Beckham does nothing to intervene and won't even talk to his teammates, Donovan should've spoken up months ago.

I think this is coloured by it being Donovan, whom we all can't stand. If this were politics or private business, Beckham's circus would've been called out long ago.

Dirk Diggler
07-04-2009, 12:35 PM
On a related note, did you read the comments from UEFA President Michel Platini, yesterday?

"UEFA president Michel Platini wants to stop clubs like Real Madrid embarking on spending sprees using borrowed money by changing entry rules for the Champions League to ensure that players' salaries and transfer fees are proportionate to a club's income.

Big spending has come into sharp focus with Madrid using bank loans to buy three of the game's most sought-after players in the last month for more than $328 million, including world player of the year Cristiano Ronaldo.

European football's ruling body said Thursday it wanted the financial constraints, which would also cover the new Europa League, to be finalized in September ready for a phased introduction.

... Platini has made curbing excessive spending by clubs his top priority in order to maintain their long-term sustainability.

"The only club which did not have debts this season was Barcelona, while all others lived beyond their means," Platini said. "In the future we will see to it that clubs have enough funds to finance the players. UEFA will be more active in this process."

... from Sports Illustrated

Platini hates the English teams ... oh wait...

But yeah, I truly don't know what to expect. Half the stuff he says is just hogwash. I'm certain nothing more will come of this either. Although it is interesting to note that the only debt-free team in the competition won the tournament.

TFC RealDeal RPB
07-04-2009, 12:45 PM
who care's what goes on in LA, why is this in the Toronto FC forum ? FUCK LA FUCK BECKHAM AND FUCK DONOVAN.

ensco
07-04-2009, 01:51 PM
Dude, Beckham's presence has basically gutted the Galaxy. If Wahl is correct and his agent's firm is basically running the team, while Beckham does nothing to intervene and won't even talk to his teammates, Donovan should've spoken up months ago.

I think this is coloured by it being Donovan, whom we all can't stand. If this were politics or private business, Beckham's circus would've been called out long ago.

It's not about the truth. That only matters to us. Not to Donovan's teammates, who already knew the truth.

The fact that Galaxy mgmt screwed up here, and that Beckham didn't care enough, aren't the biggest thing as it relates to the players today. It's the public rift, and that's a monumental distraction/negative for that team right now.

Right. Donovan should have dealt with it months ago. Privately and repeatedly. Calling out a teammate in public is never something a teammate does about another teammate. Doubly true for a prominent former captain.

Beach_Red
07-04-2009, 02:28 PM
But LA is used to this stuff from Kobe and Shaq.

But really, you'd have to find another example of a guy making $40 million on the same team with guys making twenty grand before we start talking about how rare this is. And a situation where a player's personal management started running the team. Sure, Donovan didn't handle it very well, but the situation was unique.

It really was an experiment that was doomed to fail.

Roogsy
07-04-2009, 02:29 PM
^ Normally I'd agree.

But when you're dealing with the biggest soccer star in the world, tabloids is all he understands.

Beach_Red
07-04-2009, 02:33 PM
^ Normally I'd agree.

But when you're dealing with the biggest soccer star in the world, tabloids is all he understands.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

ensco
07-04-2009, 02:59 PM
But LA is used to this stuff from Kobe and Shaq.

But really, you'd have to find another example of a guy making $40 million on the same team with guys making twenty grand before we start talking about how rare this is. And a situation where a player's personal management started running the team. Sure, Donovan didn't handle it very well, but the situation was unique.

It really was an experiment that was doomed to fail.

Beckham's lack of respect for his teammates isn't unique. Pretty typical in superstar-land.