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C.Ronaldo
06-25-2009, 01:02 PM
Hate to sound like a broken record, but security at BMO is really ruining the experience.

I know you guys are still having fun in your "corner" but you can hear a pin drop in the rest of the stadium.

Our area (120, 119) has finally scummed to security threats of revoking our tickets, and we have since removed all standing, noise, streamers and enthusiasm from our section.

Now even with that, security still seems to be throwing their weight around.

They continually harass anyone that is standing a little too long after any exciting play, or try's to get the crowd into it.

During yesterday's game, security kept harassing and threatening the people with "floor seat" tickets regarding banging the boards. (but oddly enough, not for standing during regular play)

I understand that security is just doing their job, but they are abusing their power and in the process are obstructing my view of the game (which i thought was the point of forcing us to sit)

I saw the same tough guy security pull the old "COME HERE NOW OR YOUR OUT TRICK"

I will continue my personal protest of not purchasing anything at BMO field, until the supporters around the entire stadium who make the game day experience are properly respected.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
go ahead, flame me for complaining again.
And yes, i called the ticket rep to complain

zeelaw
06-25-2009, 01:04 PM
I'll flame because of your username :)

naw that sucks man I don't have season tix yet, but I've been in sections where its just sitting down and death.

prizby
06-25-2009, 01:07 PM
i agree about the name, change it to something more appropriate...Cristina Ronaldive

Lucky Strike
06-25-2009, 01:07 PM
I'll flame because of your username :)

naw that sucks man I don't have season tix yet, but I've been in sections where its just sitting down and death.

The atmosphere is nowhere like it was in 2007 and 2008. It's a big bummer.

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-25-2009, 01:08 PM
They're a bunch of testosterone freaks on a power trip, in my experience. They go nuts over the most inconsequential things and yet, for instance, can't stop people from stealing other people's scarves off their seats or nab beer throwers. It's kind of like they think it's their stadium, their section, they've got their own little area where they can play God and make everyone succumb to their will.

It's pretty ironic that as 112 becomes better and better the security are turning the rest of the ground into a morgue.

rocker
06-25-2009, 01:09 PM
the security are turning the rest of the ground into a morgue.

the rest of the ground is not a morgue.

but if it helps your argument to state that, go ahead ;)

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-25-2009, 01:12 PM
the rest of the ground is not a morgue.

but if it helps your argument to state that, go ahead ;)
From someone who's not an SSH and gets tickets wherever he can get them, nowhere else in the stadium outside of the south stand and 127 do you get any kind of atmosphere anymore aside from the occasional *clap clap clap* TFC chant.

C.Ronaldo
06-25-2009, 01:16 PM
you haven't seen any diving yet, wait until he's in the la liga. lol


p.s

Im a big fan of his because of personal reasons. He's helped a lot of people in madeira (which is where I am from) and called a higschool cancer patient here in Mississauga (friend of my sisters) as that was the patient's final wish.
He sent him and his family memorabilia, and called the mother personally when the unfortunate happened.

Yohan
06-25-2009, 01:18 PM
i'll suggest my solution to this security problem again

make top 1/3, or even 1/4 of section a standing section and move everyone who wants to stand to top of each section

whatever happened to headhoncho anyways?

C.Ronaldo
06-25-2009, 01:23 PM
i'll suggest my solution to this security problem again

make top 1/3, or even 1/4 of section a standing section and move everyone who wants to stand to top of each section

whatever happened to headhoncho anyways?


That only makes sense to logical thinking people

Cambridge_Red
06-25-2009, 01:24 PM
Are you in 119 or 120

Quite simply one is a supporters section and the other isn't. Security is inconsistent everywhere but we all knew this already. I don't get why there's like 3 sets of different security.. some have a clue, but the rest are clueless.

G'day

C.Ronaldo
06-25-2009, 01:27 PM
^ im in 120,

but 119 is also void of any ambiance, they just stand.


its such a small section surrounded by security and "dead zones" that they don't get much going either


Security didnt bother me last game except for obstructing my view, but they are even attacking floor seats (which are mostly corporate from what i understand)

morgank1986
06-25-2009, 02:01 PM
Calling the ticket rep and raising these concerns is the only suggestion I can make. Hope security comes around eventually, it's a shame to have to suffer through that situation.

Toronto Ruffrider
06-25-2009, 02:07 PM
i'll suggest my solution to this security problem again

make top 1/3, or even 1/4 of section a standing section and move everyone who wants to stand to top of each section

whatever happened to headhoncho anyways?

That's my favoured solution as well. Alas, I don't think the top of each section will ever become a standing section, as that would make too much sense.

On the topic of security, it's a shame that we don't have a guy such as Marc Petitpas to talk to on this board. It would help if we could communicate with someone who''s in contact with the yellow jackets.

Commie Red
06-25-2009, 02:16 PM
I sympathise with you Ronaldo. It is indeed, for the most part, a morgue outside of the south end and sec 127 -- and getting worse. And, yes, security has become very heavy handed and extremely petty in what they choose to crack-down on (even in the south end). I believe MLSE is implementing a longer-term strategy of safely "ghettoizing" suppoterts while making the rest of BMO Field more condusive to casual corporate clients (al la the ACC). I personally think they're killing the goose that lays the golden egg -- but they probably have a marketing study that suggests I'm wrong ("Just keep the geese in a cage and rich people will pay good money to look at them").

Unfortunately, I don't know if you'll find much support on this board. The prevailing mood here is generally one of "I'm alright Jack" or "Why don't you form a supporters group in your own section?" Which is all fair enough. However, it is sad to see what is happening in the rest of the stadium -- and I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way.

Bobo
06-25-2009, 02:20 PM
So when are the SGs going to take stance on this? I think its their duty to as this is a damn serious issue. If security have orders to kill the atmosphere, then why not kill it ourselves? Flex some fucking muscle. The only way we're going to have the club take notice at anything is if we take away what has made TFC what it is. Yes the SGs are loud, but if they don't speak for everyone then what voice do they really have?

'All for one' my balls. I'm starting to dislike everything about TFC besides the guys on the field....and of course, the game experience from my cozy seats in 113.

daner90
06-25-2009, 02:22 PM
I have spent the last 2 games in 116 and 117 and they are definitley morgues. The people in these sections seem like they feel forced to stand up and openly bitch about it, they look at you funny for chanting and supporting the team, and aside from after a goal, you can hear the pin drop...quite sad

Eastend
06-25-2009, 02:27 PM
It is sad to hear this. I am at the front of 114 and so far have had no issue with either security or the ushers even with them being different "teams" every couple of games.....and actually, we get along pretty well with them and they get into the match right along with us.....and I hope it stays that way.

C.Ronaldo
06-25-2009, 02:31 PM
It is sad to hear this. I am at the front of 114 and so far have had no issue with either security or the ushers even with them being different "teams" every couple of games.....and actually, we get along pretty well with them and they get into the match right along with us.....and I hope it stays that way.

this sounds like a dream





p.s the security on our end has blue or black shirts, you guys get yellow jackets?
and the cops are still mostly cool

Toronto Ruffrider
06-25-2009, 02:40 PM
this sounds like a dream





p.s the security on our end has blue or black shirts, you guys get yellow jackets?
and the cops are still mostly cool

I'm thinking more along the lines of the outfits that these security guards are wearing. Sorry, I couldn't find a better photo without flipping through hundreds of pics.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3576/3558832669_9e39369d80_o.jpg

Get In There
06-25-2009, 02:53 PM
you haven't seen any diving yet, wait until he's in the la liga. lol


p.s

Im a big fan of his because of personal reasons. He's helped a lot of people in madeira (which is where I am from) and called a higschool cancer patient here in Mississauga (friend of my sisters) as that was the patient's final wish.
He sent him and his family memorabilia, and called the mother personally when the unfortunate happened.

Tks for the info - really good to know and has added some perspective to my loathing of the man.

B

TFC Cityboy
06-25-2009, 02:56 PM
Tks for the info - really good to know and has added some perspective to my loathing of the man.

B
yeah but when all is said and done ON THE PITCH he's still a diving twat
:)

Pookie
06-25-2009, 03:11 PM
^ im in 120,

but 119 is also void of any ambiance, they just stand.


its such a small section surrounded by security and "dead zones" that they don't get much going either



I think the ambiance issue is a function of lack of capos to lead the group.

(Lower) 110-113 benefit from being close to the capos in order to take a lead. The other sections referenced as "dead zones" have no such leadership.

We are on a partial pack in 110 but have been at every game this year (except the LA game). We've been in 109 as well as various rows in 110 and 111.

Standing near the top of 110 was also a "dead zone" (on the day we had tickets). It wasn't because of security. It was because there were groups of guys that wanted to do their own thing... or nothing at all.

The closest capo was down at the bottom of 112.

This is group think... you need someone "thinking for the group" and organizing it or else you get very inconsistent results.

I sympathize with supporters in 119. If the wind is blowing you probably can't hear (or see) 112. If you can, it's drown out by TRN and you have no organized leadership in 118 to help get anything going en masse.

If I were involved with chants/game day experiences from a supporter's group, I would think picking out 6-8 individuals (from various groups) to work together on game days as capos in front of each designated supporter section would do plenty to improve the atmosphere.

Now, could they all work together?

redcard
06-25-2009, 03:11 PM
seems a lot of negative encounters with security lately so i'll mention something positive.... in 116 we had security standing just a the top of the stairs between 116 and 115...this would constantly block our view of the match as it approached the goal near the south end...we politely went up to the supervisor and described our issue...well since that point no security personal obstruct our view...

maybe try a more friendly approach with them, i dunno i may have sympathy for them as i was one of them (at the airport) during my university days...you gotta understand they are being told to enforce the rules which will make them look like idiots in your eyes.

gtaguy
06-25-2009, 03:35 PM
below taken from the torontofc site..

‘Supporters Sections’. Our definition of a ‘Supporters Section’ is an area where standing throughout match play is allowed, as well as the use of flags, banners, drums and streamers. Therefore, in addition to Sections 112 through 118, Sections 111, 119, 127, and the top half of 110 allow this behaviour for 2009 and beyond. All other sections will be expected to remain seated throughout the games, unless match play suggests otherwis


I can understand security being heavy handed if your sitting in the 120 section(not supporters designated) but it appears to state that 119 is appointed as an official supporters section where all of the above is allowed..
Now if your sitting in the 119 i would pull out my cell phone and start recording the heavy handedness of the security staff . Doing this with the hopes that once you have enough evidence you send it in to the front office.. or even post it here where we can all evidence it and united we can challenge it but from what i see your greying the 119/120 section and i think thats where they are drawing the boundries aswell..

GaryJamboTFC
06-25-2009, 03:55 PM
I can understand security being heavy handed if your sitting in the 120 section(not supporters designated) but it appears to state that 119 is appointed as an official supporters section where all of the above is allowed..
Now if your sitting in the 119 i would pull out my cell phone and start recording the heavy handedness of the security staff . Doing this with the hopes that once you have enough evidence you send it in to the front office.. or even post it here where we can all evidence it and united we can challenge it but from what i see your greying the 119/120 section and i think thats where they are drawing the boundries aswell..

You want to be very careful/sneaky recording the security at BMO because it apparently causes them to go apeshit, violate people's rights and allegedly perform criminal acts (like trying to grab phones/delete images which even police are not allowed to do).

Blizzard
06-25-2009, 07:12 PM
It is sad to hear this. I am at the front of 114 and so far have had no issue with either security or the ushers even with them being different "teams" every couple of games.....and actually, we get along pretty well with them and they get into the match right along with us.....and I hope it stays that way.

The folks who are on the aisle between 113 and 114 are absolutely top class!
We are lucky to have them it seems.

B

Manpon
06-25-2009, 08:56 PM
I'm going to apologize in advance, but I had to chime in...all these people talking about the security guards being testosterone freaks, etc on a power trip, etc. I used to work for Northwest Protection Services which is one of the security companies that works at BMO..in my personal experience, in cases where shit went down, people getting thrown out, it's due to a supervisor getting involved and forcing a guard to confront, etc. Sorta like "shit flows downhill" if someone complains to the supervisor, he gets someone else to deal with it. If another patron is complaining about someone being unruley or disruptive in any way, someone will step in..now saying that the security dudes are freaks on a power trip is nonsense...they all do that shit part time making like $10/hour and people want to do as very little as possible unless told to do so by a higher up...im sure there are situations where people might be sent home/repremanded if they refuse to do what they're told by their boss. they're at a job and they're being told to do something by their boss..if they dont do it, they get fired..are you going to refuse to do something your boss tells you to do? and i know people will say "no i watched the guard and nobody told him to do anything" well before and after every event there is briefing where they go over what happened, what needs to be done, etc.

C.Ronaldo
06-25-2009, 09:32 PM
I'm going to apologize in advance, but I had to chime in...all these people talking about the security guards being testosterone freaks, etc on a power trip, etc. I used to work for Northwest Protection Services which is one of the security companies that works at BMO..in my personal experience, in cases where shit went down, people getting thrown out, it's due to a supervisor getting involved and forcing a guard to confront, etc. Sorta like "shit flows downhill" if someone complains to the supervisor, he gets someone else to deal with it. If another patron is complaining about someone being unruley or disruptive in any way, someone will step in..now saying that the security dudes are freaks on a power trip is nonsense...they all do that shit part time making like $10/hour and people want to do as very little as possible unless told to do so by a higher up...im sure there are situations where people might be sent home/repremanded if they refuse to do what they're told by their boss. they're at a job and they're being told to do something by their boss..if they dont do it, they get fired..are you going to refuse to do something your boss tells you to do? and i know people will say "no i watched the guard and nobody told him to do anything" well before and after every event there is briefing where they go over what happened, what needs to be done, etc.


your right, it does always end up with the same manager (who has terrible breath) flexing his authority
I dont blame the $10/hr guys.

Blazer
06-25-2009, 09:42 PM
Hate to sound like a broken record, but security at BMO is really ruining the experience.

I know you guys are still having fun in your "corner" but you can hear a pin drop in the rest of the stadium.

Our area (120, 119) has finally scummed to security threats of revoking our tickets, and we have since removed all standing, noise, streamers and enthusiasm from our section.

Now even with that, security still seems to be throwing their weight around.

They continually harass anyone that is standing a little too long after any exciting play, or try's to get the crowd into it.

During yesterday's game, security kept harassing and threatening the people with "floor seat" tickets regarding banging the boards. (but oddly enough, not for standing during regular play)

I understand that security is just doing their job, but they are abusing their power and in the process are obstructing my view of the game (which i thought was the point of forcing us to sit)

I saw the same tough guy security pull the old "COME HERE NOW OR YOUR OUT TRICK"

I will continue my personal protest of not purchasing anything at BMO field, until the supporters around the entire stadium who make the game day experience are properly respected.



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go ahead, flame me for complaining again.
And yes, i called the ticket rep to complain

Stop making excuses for security. They have a job to do and that’s to keep the peace. Anything above and beyond is, as you say, an abuse of power. They’re arseholes plain and simple.

Don’t feel like you have to silver line their involvement during games. Every week someone has an unbecoming story on these douche bags. Enough is enough already.

Keep complaining to FO.

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-25-2009, 09:45 PM
Manpon- That may well be, but it doesn't change the fact that someone or a group of people in charge are creating a lot more problems than they're solving by being there, and it's really starting to get old. Whether it's the guys in blue and yellow themselves or whoever's giving them orders, it's screwing up the gameday experience for a lot of people.

The actual police officers I've met at BMO I've never had any problems whatsoever with, I might add, it's always just security in my experience.

Gueezer
06-25-2009, 10:04 PM
I think the solution is to ban people over 60 and kids and make the entire stadium standing and singing, because people who actually want to watch the game aren't real fans.

These threads are getting lame. There are lots of different kinds of fans. Just because somebody doesn't want to enjoy the game in the same fashion you do, you bitch and question their support. I love the south end, but I don't want to watch a game there. I like to join in on a song or several. I shout at the refs and encourage the lads. But I like to sit on my ass and actually watch the game. I go with my dad who's north of 60 and standing's not on. I wish my section was a bit louder, but it's far from being a morgue. The people actually watch the game and comment on it. Every time I looked at the south end during the Shite Bulls game, there was a dude on a set of wooden stairs with his back to the game leading the songs. Is he a fan or a choirmaster? Does he even like football or just singing? Watch the game dude! I'm being sarcastic. Of course he's a fan. So are the rest of us.

Gazza
06-25-2009, 10:07 PM
I don't sit in the supporter's section but i cannot watch a game without standing up...i get complaints all the time. Is there a standing room section that guys like me can move to? I don't mean the north end by the bar.

Blizzard
06-25-2009, 10:14 PM
I don't sit in the supporter's section but i cannot watch a game without standing up...i get complaints all the time. Is there a standing room section that guys like me can move to? I don't mean the north end by the bar.

If you're standing in a sitting section, you don't have a leg to stand on (so to speak).

You either do your best to relocate your ticket for next season or you sit down!

It isn't an option.

B

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-25-2009, 10:18 PM
I think the solution is to ban people over 60 and kids and make the entire stadium standing and singing, because people who actually want to watch the game aren't real fans.

These threads are getting lame. There are lots of different kinds of fans. Just because somebody doesn't want to enjoy the game in the same fashion you do, you bitch and question their support. I love the south end, but I don't want to watch a game there. I like to join in on a song or several. I shout at the refs and encourage the lads. But I like to sit on my ass and actually watch the game. I go with my dad who's north of 60 and standing's not on. I wish my section was a bit louder, but it's far from being a morgue. The people actually watch the game and comment on it. Every time I looked at the south end during the Shite Bulls game, there was a dude on a set of wooden stairs with his back to the game leading the songs. Is he a fan or a choirmaster? Does he even like football or just singing? Watch the game dude! I'm being sarcastic. Of course he's a fan. So are the rest of us.
I don't think that's what this thread was getting at, although I don't disagree with you. Only it'd be nice if people were a bit more vocal in their support- this doesn't have to be singing, cheering or any kind of enthusiastic sound will do fine- but I think it should be this way at Leafs games as well, it's not just because it's football.

Anyway, to get back on topic, it's about security who feel the need to address problems that don't exist.

Gueezer
06-25-2009, 10:32 PM
I don't think that's what this thread was getting at, although I don't disagree with you. Only it'd be nice if people were a bit more vocal in their support- this doesn't have to be singing, cheering or any kind of enthusiastic sound will do fine- but I think it should be this way at Leafs games as well, it's not just because it's football.

Anyway, to get back on topic, it's about security who feel the need to address problems that don't exist.

Okay, you're probably right. I might have snuck off topic, but this thread did have hints of what's become a tired refrain ...

back on topic ... security can go overboard

I sit next to a pair of scalper tickets. We get all sorts of people. A few weeks back, a nice young couple came to a rainy afternoon game. They had a wee pocket umbrella. They had it up, but it was practically resting on their heads. There was nobody behind them. It was bothering nobody. It was confiscated. Also, security always clears out people standing at the top of the stairwell between 107/108 even though there is no harm done.

Kaz
06-25-2009, 10:37 PM
I will say this and only this.
I went to my first game this year. At no time did I see anything on my ticket or on my way into the stadium to tell me that I was in a Sitting only section.

I was sitting in 105 and stood most of the game as did most of my row and the row behind me and a half dozen or so in front of us. And no one said boo to us. But I would have been very confused if it had. I have been trying to arrange the time to get to a match for 2 years, because the stadium has a rep for being a place of great atmosphere and great fan support.

I had a blast the group I was watching with was vocal and we all enjoyed the game including the 80 year old lady from the UK who was standing and cheering beside me, nor was it an issue for the kids whose parents brought them that was just behind us.

Granted it rained through most of the first half in spurts and standing and cheering as a great way to keep warm.

I'd hate to go to a Game and be told to sit down and don't enjoy the game so much. At the same time, if I was the only one standing, or there were people who refused to behind me, and I was blocking their view then I would try to respect them and not block their view.

Gueezer
06-25-2009, 10:44 PM
I will say this and only this.

I had a blast the group I was watching with was vocal and we all enjoyed the game including the 80 year old lady from the UK who was standing and cheering beside me, nor was it an issue for the kids whose parents brought them that was just behind us.

...

I'd hate to go to a Game and be told to sit down and don't enjoy the game so much. At the same time, if I was the only one standing, or there were people who refused to behind me, and I was blocking their view then I would try to respect them and not block their view.

Yeah, it shouldn't be a problem if people respect each other. Unfortunately, some people are douchebags. I've actually witnessed a dad politely telling a group of a-holes that his 8-year-old son couldn't see and if they could sit or shift or something. They told him to fuck off.

Yohan
06-25-2009, 10:51 PM
what annoys me the most about security is the lack of consistency

ffs. if you're going to enforce a rule, at least do it consistently all over the stadium, so at least we know what we're dealing with and react according

has any of the SGs got in touch with FO regarding security issue, and how to resolve sitting vs standing conflict yet?

Pookie
06-26-2009, 06:23 AM
kaz, has it right. If the section is standing, you stand. If it is sitting, you sit. You bought the ticket, live with the rules.

As for "banning kids", I'd like to put my 8 year old up against some of the "casual standers." Last game, we moved over to 111 and he sang his ass off throughout the game and after at Gate 3.

I'll take a senior or family who takes the time to learn a chant and participate over this guy in the Florida home made wife beater (or the other standers that are seemingly at a library):

uuW8FZCIvgs

sidvan
06-26-2009, 06:53 AM
watch out for the low men in yellow coats

Fort York Redcoat
06-26-2009, 07:07 AM
uuW8FZCIvgs


That guy is crazy. My fav is the "i dunno" shrug after he screeches.

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-26-2009, 07:33 AM
Pookie, I agree 100%. There are people at BMO who think they're on some sort of moral high ground just because they stand, even though they don't sing or contribute anything positive.

And am I the only one who immediately thought of the video for Pretty Fly (For a White Guy) upon seeing those douches in wifebeaters?

Fort York Redcoat
06-26-2009, 07:53 AM
Pookie, I agree 100%. There are people at BMO who think they're on some sort of moral high ground just because they stand, even though they don't sing or contribute anything positive.

And am I the only one who immediately thought of the video for Pretty Fly (For a White Guy) upon seeing those douches in wifebeaters?

I think most everyone here knows the difference between those that stand and watch the game and those above.

C.Ronaldo
06-26-2009, 08:58 AM
Its pretty obvious that there needs to be more supporters sections.
And its pretty obvious that they need to disclose in a louder fashion that the family section is upstairs.

This stuff I'm waiting for in the next year.

But the security being a bunch of Fn ArseHoles needs to go immediately

__wowza
06-26-2009, 09:08 AM
my buddy actually got tossed from a game for a "WEST SIDE STAND UP!!" chant during a corner kick. he tried to get people on their feet for a corner kick, and was ejected from the game for inciting what was a obviously going to become a full blown family and senoir riot up on the west shelf.

oh yeah, rent a cops suck.

redcard
06-26-2009, 09:33 AM
Its pretty obvious that there needs to be more supporters sections.
And its pretty obvious that they need to disclose in a louder fashion that the family section is upstairs.

This stuff I'm waiting for in the next year.

But the security being a bunch of Fn ArseHoles needs to go immediately

i think what needs to happen is get the families out of the south end...lately i have been seeing way too many sitters in the south end sections of 115 116 117...if they wont move voluntarily then encourage them by removing the seats and really making it a standing section, like the first few rows at saputo where UM02 is...

olegunnar
06-26-2009, 09:33 AM
my buddy actually got tossed from a game for a "WEST SIDE STAND UP!!" chant during a corner kick. he tried to get people on their feet for a corner kick, and was ejected from the game for inciting what was a obviously going to become a full blown family and senoir riot up on the west shelf.

oh yeah, rent a cops suck.

I've been all over the stadium the past 2+ years. Had sitting seats, standing seats etc. etc. etc. based on my experiences

If I were making the rules.....

1. West side stand up....3rd and 4th renditions of Oh when the Reds....This is our house....would be immediate grounds for expulsion from the ground. We're supporting a football team...not getting drunk and blowing off some steam by yelling.

2. People standing and drinking and being idiots in supporter sections would be given yellow cards for first offense...sent to the beer garden on the second offense. They do nothing but waste space in supporter sections...and in my opinion are the cause of most of the problems...ie throwing stuff etc.

3. In sitting sections, during gameplay entry would be similar to that at the theatre...you wait at the entrance until there's a break in play. Only then will the usher let you in. No more in and out every two minutes and bothering people.

4. Tickets would have a printed message on them with a quick note about the type of section they're for. "This section is a supporter section where standing, flag waving and chanting is the norm" or "this section is not classified as a supporter section. Standing for extended periods of time and flag waving are not permitted"

5. I would strongly consider banning beers in the stands. My experiences in the the south end...and worst of all 110..have made me resent the amount of "supporters" that are wasting space and just getting hammered and being fools.



My opinion...is that the squatters...the people in supporters section who aren't supporters...just party wannabes...are a big part of the problem. Send them back to doucheville and let the supporters have their seats and then we'd be closer to reaching the sitting/standing harmony that seems so hard to achieve.

People should be able to sit if they'd like.
Supporters should be able to support if they'd like.

The people in between...that stand and drink and yell and are fools (like the youtube idiots from this thread)...are throwing a wrench in everything and causing the problem.

I think there's a need for rules. The club needs to take more ownership of the situation instead of always blaming the staff they hire.

olegunnar
06-26-2009, 09:36 AM
To add to my post...
No way in hell ML$E would go for my suggestions.
Stopping people from drinking in the stands would cost them revenue.
Encouraging people to stay in their seats during gameplay would cost them $$
Printing messages on tickets might stop people from buying tickets and would cost them $$$

Gazza
06-26-2009, 09:44 AM
I don't feel i have to be part of the RBP Secret Handshake crew to want to stand up during a game. Are people being ridiculed for standing up and not chanting? I don't stand during a game to be noticed and make the event about me. I stand because of the excitement of the game. I'm way too antsy to sit on my hands during any soccer game that i have vested interest in. But please don't tell me how to cheer. Sometimes i feel like i'm in the "Mean Girls" forum.

There's a catch 22 in that i was standing in a "non supporters" section when someone asked me nicely to sit down. I went to tell them to piss off only to find it was an 80 year old couple. So i can understand why security would feel it necessary to inforce that rule.

Pookie
06-26-2009, 10:14 AM
I think printing the "rules" on the tickets is an excellent step. It would certainly help those that are getting tickets from a friend or buying off a "vendor" know what they are getting into.

As for "families upstairs", I think that is the least of the problem. Kids want to get into the chants. I've got 3 kids.. 8,4,2 and even the 2 year old knows the chants. Hell, go to any sporting event on a "kids day" and I'll bet you the decibel level is twice that on any regular day.

Nor is the problem in having seniors in your section. I'd wager that the bulk of them are extremely knowledgeable and passionate. They must be as they keep coming despite all the crap that they seem to get tagged with.

The issue in encouraging support breaks down into a few basic components:

people don't take the time to learn the songs and/or aren't aware of the specific rules in their section
Most "Supporters Sections" are not well organized (111, 112, 113, 127 and parts of 110 are excluded from that comment). There is no leadership. No coordination with other sections. I think the will is there but it doesn't come off well
some people just aren't into singing. It's not something North American sports fans are accustomed to
You can absolutely do something about the first two points. The last will take time but banning kids or passionate older fans because they don't fit your vision of a "supporter" isn't going to do anything.

You'll still end up with the folks shown in the video above in your section (I'm including the quiet standers too).

nascarguy
06-26-2009, 10:36 AM
in my sec 119 there are people think that you can not wave flags in the supporter sec

Toronto Ruffrider
06-26-2009, 10:58 AM
uuW8FZCIvgs

Equals

http://www.photopox.com/Images/Insults/1163955324-douchebag.jpg

:D

RedMAN127
06-26-2009, 11:05 AM
Most "Supporters Sections" are not well organized. There is no leadership. No coordination with other sections. I think the will is there but it doesn't come off well




This comes back to the whole round about issue; people in designated supporter sections who shouldn't be, and people not in designated supporters sections who should be.

Adding more sections has not resolved the problem, the real solution is to have all south end SSH be members of a SG - there is likely to be some consolidation of SG's overtime (as one per section may be too much), but there needs to be a dialog with the FO about getting the "supporter's section" into the hands of supporters groups, thus leaving the other sections for more casual fans.

It seems like on these boards that all the cheap seat are entiltlements of the "true supporters" while the families and other working folk need to fork out for reds, come-on! The SG's should be given more control over south end seats and not diluted throughout the stadium.

C.Ronaldo
06-26-2009, 11:07 AM
not force families upstairs

but if you want the family atmosphere, go upstairs.

And alot of people dont know this

1st timers in our section hear the swearing and are appalled.

Then a 2 hours discussion of how swearing should not be allowed ensues, and they forget there is a game on

Toronto Ruffrider
06-26-2009, 11:27 AM
One reason why casuals will stick around in the south end is the cheap price of the tickets. As long as those seats remain the cheapest at BMO, casuals will put up with the swearing, etc., even if they are aware that there's a family section. Casual fans need a monetary incentive to leave.

RedMAN127
06-26-2009, 11:38 AM
One reason why casuals will stick around in the south end is the cheap price of the tickets. As long as those seats remain the cheapest at BMO, casuals will put up with the swearing, etc., even if they are aware that there's a family section. Casual fans need a monetary incentive to leave.


the difference between the southend and light greys is marginal ($2 bucks or so) but now all the light greys have been designated too.

Have serious discussions been held with the FO over this issue? may be more usefull than the bitching about RM.

Pookie
06-26-2009, 11:52 AM
the difference between the southend and light greys is marginal ($2 bucks or so) but now all the light greys have been designated too.


Correct, though the difference is $80/year for a pair of season seats.

Still, I think that regardless of where you move the "families" or "sitters" you'll still have guys like this that get tickets on the cheap and have no clue. They want to be in the Supporters Section. Only their goal is to get something "cool" for facebook not watch or support the team.

Though, I'm using them as a reference, note how quiet the rest of the "standers" are during one of the more popular and arguably the easiest to learn chants.

How do you change this?

(part 2 in the series)

kl1DU1OeyfU

Commie Red
06-26-2009, 01:06 PM
Ultimately, I think RedMan has it right. SGs have to be involved in someway with controlling tickets. As far as security is concerned, this would introduce a measure of self-policing which is far preferable to what we have now. In fact, for you law-and-order types, evidence suggests that self-policing at football matches is, in general, a far safer option than over-policing (does MLSE have no (non-MBA) academics on staff?). Supporter Group involvement in ticketing supporter's sections would, of course, also address some concerns about "atmosphere" -- at least in those sections.

Unfortunately, it looks like MLSE is going in the exact opposite direction. Instead of involving SGs more in how ticketing is being handled in supporters' sections they are apparently cutting them out completely. For instance, I just read a recent post over at the NEE forum (perhaps he posted his concerns here too -- but I didn't see it) where 15 people who sat in the south end from day one lost their tickets to an unscrupulous agent who took their money and ran. MLSE wouldn't honour their claim to the seats because their name was not on file -- which is fair enough I guess. However, instead of releasing those south end tickets to the next 15 people on the mythical 13,000 person waiting list, MLSE, apparently, has opted instead to release those tickets to selected customers on a game to game basis. Think "experiential marketing" for corporate partners wanting to slum-it-for-a-day. According to the fellow who posted this story, his old seat-mates claim the whole area has become dead as 15 new casuals are bussed in each week (I would love to hear from anyone directly familiar with this story). This is something Sgs should be fighting against.

C.Ronaldo
06-26-2009, 01:11 PM
^ whoa!

DoubleUp
06-26-2009, 01:31 PM
some people just have to much respect for authority, like they're not old enough to make there own decisions or enforce there own rules. If the so called supporters groups cant get together and make the FO take notice, then its all a masquerade with fantasitc cheers and fancy scarves. A support group should be the last line defence against tyrannical leaders and underlings.

Commie Red
06-27-2009, 10:36 AM
woww that jackass in the florida shirtt yelled during th moment of silence for Peter Zezle....
my opinion if your in a sitting section DEAL WITH IT...
in europe go stand in a sitting section and see what happenss..
not to say supporting your team isnt good...
heck i almost helped start a massive in 105....YES A MASSIVE IN 105:)
so its all considerate supporters sections are where you go to sing chant and wave flags...regular sections are to sit and watch the game....

Did you even bother to read the thread before posting?

cmonyoureds
06-28-2009, 02:30 PM
Ultimately, I think RedMan has it right. SGs have to be involved in someway with controlling tickets. As far as security is concerned, this would introduce a measure of self-policing which is far preferable to what we have now. In fact, for you law-and-order types, evidence suggests that self-policing at football matches is, in general, a far safer option than over-policing (does MLSE have no (non-MBA) academics on staff?). Supporter Group involvement in ticketing supporter's sections would, of course, also address some concerns about "atmosphere" -- at least in those sections.

Unfortunately, it looks like MLSE is going in the exact opposite direction. Instead of involving SGs more in how ticketing is being handled in supporters' sections they are apparently cutting them out completely. For instance, I just read a recent post over at the NEE forum (perhaps he posted his concerns here too -- but I didn't see it) where 15 people who sat in the south end from day one lost their tickets to an unscrupulous agent who took their money and ran. MLSE wouldn't honour their claim to the seats because their name was not on file -- which is fair enough I guess. However, instead of releasing those south end tickets to the next 15 people on the mythical 13,000 person waiting list, MLSE, apparently, has opted instead to release those tickets to selected customers on a game to game basis. Think "experiential marketing" for corporate partners wanting to slum-it-for-a-day. According to the fellow who posted this story, his old seat-mates claim the whole area has become dead as 15 new casuals are bussed in each week (I would love to hear from anyone directly familiar with this story). This is something Sgs should be fighting against.

YOWZA. Can someone confirm/deny this?
And +1 on this is what Sgs should be conversing about.
Sgs currently seem to be more worried about providing atmosphere than fan issues. I think it's more a reflection of how the F/O views us, but I'm going off topic here....

Yohan
06-28-2009, 02:51 PM
YOWZA. Can someone confirm/deny this?
Sgs currently seem to be more worried about providing atmosphere than fan issues. I think it's more a reflection of how the F/O views us, but I'm going off topic here....
FO would only let SGs get involved with ticket sales only if BMO is not selling out every game.

FO doesn't want SGs to dictate how the business should be run...

college st
06-28-2009, 02:57 PM
yess i did adding me two centss on the standing issue

C.Ronaldo
06-28-2009, 10:31 PM
yess i did adding me two centss on the standing issue

maybe some constructive cents would be nice.

and last time i checked, we are not in europe, so your point really isn't valid.


One could say, "go to a boca juniors game and sit, good luck with that"
http://www.footballingworld.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/riverboca1.JPG

AL-MO
06-28-2009, 10:39 PM
YOWZA. Can someone confirm/deny this?
And +1 on this is what Sgs should be conversing about.
Sgs currently seem to be more worried about providing atmosphere than fan issues. I think it's more a reflection of how the F/O views us, but I'm going off topic here....

Well, we are a Supporter's Club......

RedMAN127
06-29-2009, 08:32 AM
FO would only let SGs get involved with ticket sales only if BMO is not selling out every game.

FO doesn't want SGs to dictate how the business should be run...

Organising the Supporter Section would be way less intrusive to the business than telling them when/whether to hold friendlies, wouldn't it?

I think the FO hears about the conflicts we often discuss, and a colabrotive discusion on solutioning would be a good start, its not about the SG's managing ticket sales but maybe a strategic methodology for seating re-allocations.

college st
06-29-2009, 09:32 PM
too bad those are river plate fans....

ExiledRed
06-29-2009, 10:16 PM
Organising the Supporter Section would be way less intrusive to the business than telling them when/whether to hold friendlies, wouldn't it?


The problem with this, is that it forces people to a certain ideology in order to be able to stand and cheer at a football match. The supporters section becomes exclusive to a breed of fan that is willing to 'join up' with a certain group and it's 'leadership'

It gives a select few individuals power over who sits were, who they can bring in with them, what they can do etc...

It keeps new people away from the supporters end, and forces them into seating areas and prevents the experience from spreading virally.

It just wouldn't work here.

Ossington Mental Youth
06-29-2009, 10:43 PM
The problem with this, is that it forces people to a certain ideology in order to be able to stand and cheer at a football match. The supporters section becomes exclusive to a breed of fan that is willing to 'join up' with a certain group and it's 'leadership'

It gives a select few individuals power over who sits were, who they can bring in with them, what they can do etc...

It keeps new people away from the supporters end, and forces them into seating areas and prevents the experience from spreading virally.

It just wouldn't work here.

thats exactly what my issue with a supporters run supporters section would be. I consider myself a non affiliated supporter and i would hate to have to join a group in order to keep my seats in the supporters section. We stand and chant the whole 90 but id also hate to be told when to chant and how to chant.

Pookie
06-30-2009, 05:34 AM
The problem with this, is that it forces people to a certain ideology in order to be able to stand and cheer at a football match. The supporters section becomes exclusive to a breed of fan that is willing to 'join up' with a certain group and it's 'leadership'

It gives a select few individuals power over who sits were, who they can bring in with them, what they can do etc...

It keeps new people away from the supporters end, and forces them into seating areas and prevents the experience from spreading virally.

It just wouldn't work here.

I think you are completely right.

It would open up a whole host of problems if decisions to exclude people (or decisions to not sell them tickets) were made based on age or gender.

Nomad
06-30-2009, 08:32 AM
I think you are completely wrong. There are plenty of seats in the southend for people who want non-affiliated support even if the various groups took over their sections. It would serve to get scalpers and non-contributors out of these areas and to more appropriate sections. Just because RPB would take over 112 doesn't mean you couldn't stand in 117 for example.

Parkdale
06-30-2009, 08:39 AM
watch out for the low men in yellow coats

^ good reference.

KdotOdot
06-30-2009, 09:33 AM
some people just have to much respect for authority, like they're not old enough to make there own decisions or enforce there own rules. If the so called supporters groups cant get together and make the FO take notice, then its all a masquerade with fantasitc cheers and fancy scarves. A support group should be the last line defence against tyrannical leaders and underlings.

qft

It's a supporters GROUP for a reason.

C.Ronaldo
06-30-2009, 10:29 AM
i guess the real question is, "does MLSE give a shit"?

seems unlikely.

Brooker
06-30-2009, 10:30 AM
i guess the real question is, "does MLSE give a shit"?

are you new in town? :P

Pookie
06-30-2009, 11:43 AM
I think you are completely wrong. There are plenty of seats in the southend for people who want non-affiliated support even if the various groups took over their sections. It would serve to get scalpers and non-contributors out of these areas and to more appropriate sections. Just because RPB would take over 112 doesn't mean you couldn't stand in 117 for example.

Here's your issue though.

How do you define the "non-contributor" that you want to get out of your section? There are plenty of members of supporters groups that define "non contributors" as kids/families, soccer moms and the elderly.

Let's walk through an example. My wife goes to buy a ticket through a SG in one of these sections. Now, she's a soccer nut. She still plays in her 30's, has been a coach, a convenor and dedicated fan since opening day. She joins in on all the chants, has the RPB CD, loves to stand and get involved.

Whoever controls the sale of tickets obviously doesn't know that. Nor should she (or anyone) have to submit to a background check to buy a ticket.

On the other end of the phone, the SG ticket seller recognizes it's a woman and immediately thinks "soccer mom." They refuse to sell her a ticket based on the assumption that she is a "non contributor."

She's now been denied access to an event based on gender.

That's a lawsuit (not to mention very bad PR) waiting to happen.

Same goes for those over 40 or a dad with a kid.

KdotOdot
06-30-2009, 11:53 AM
Pookie I swear to Jah allmighty that I have no fucking clue where you come up with this stuff?

Why would a SG sell tickets to non SG members? Why would you automatically assume they would deny a woman when a portion of SG members are female?

Lawsuit? Are you high?

Boo this man.

Nomad
06-30-2009, 11:53 AM
Here's your issue though.

How do you define the "non-contributor" that you want to get out of your section? There are plenty of members of supporters groups that define "non contributors" as kids/families, soccer moms and the elderly.

Let's walk through an example. My wife goes to buy a ticket through a SG in one of these sections. Now, she's a soccer nut. She still plays in her 30's, has been a coach, a convenor and dedicated fan since opening day. She joins in on all the chants, has the RPB CD, loves to stand and get involved.

Whoever controls the sale of tickets obviously doesn't know that. Nor should she (or anyone) have to submit to a background check to buy a ticket.

On the other end of the phone, the SG ticket seller recognizes it's a woman and immediately thinks "soccer mom." They refuse to sell her a ticket based on the assumption that she is a "non contributor."

She's now been denied access to an event based on gender.

That's a lawsuit (not to mention very bad PR) waiting to happen.

Same goes for those over 40 or a dad with a kid.

The Sounders addressed this with their questionnaire to potential season ticket holders to find the best fit for them.

I do not see why we could not have something similar for a better relocation process.

If you like organized support then stand in a designated group supporters section...if not stand in a general supporters section.

Yohan
06-30-2009, 11:57 AM
If you like organized support then stand in a designated group supporters section...if not stand in a general supporters section.
I think I could get behind this

111-112 = RPB
113 = USector
127 = NEE

The rest can go 115-119 if they want to stand, or dont want to belong to an affliated group.

Yohan
06-30-2009, 11:59 AM
The Sounders addressed this with their questionnaire to potential season ticket holders to find the best fit for them.

I do not see why we could not have something similar for a better relocation process.

1. You're going to have to deal with people who like the cheap tix, but don't care about SG stuff

2. Scalpers. They control a lot of tickets in supporter sections. They aren't going to relocate willingly

3. MLSE is going to have to make some sections cheaper in order to accomodate people who are willing to relocate to sitting section, but don't want to pay higher price for season ticket (and nor should they)

AL-MO
06-30-2009, 12:00 PM
Here's your issue though.

How do you define the "non-contributor" that you want to get out of your section? There are plenty of members of supporters groups that define "non contributors" as kids/families, soccer moms and the elderly.

Let's walk through an example. My wife goes to buy a ticket through a SG in one of these sections. Now, she's a soccer nut. She still plays in her 30's, has been a coach, a convenor and dedicated fan since opening day. She joins in on all the chants, has the RPB CD, loves to stand and get involved.

Whoever controls the sale of tickets obviously doesn't know that. Nor should she (or anyone) have to submit to a background check to buy a ticket.

On the other end of the phone, the SG ticket seller recognizes it's a woman and immediately thinks "soccer mom." They refuse to sell her a ticket based on the assumption that she is a "non contributor."

She's now been denied access to an event based on gender.

That's a lawsuit (not to mention very bad PR) waiting to happen.

Same goes for those over 40 or a dad with a kid.

I don't know how any of that shit even matters. FIRST you have to be a member. Second I am pretty sure RPB aren't going to do a background check on anyone. Now if the person got tickets there and just stood and did nothing all game and didn't contribute, then and only then I see it becoming an issue.

Pookie
06-30-2009, 12:39 PM
The Sounders addressed this with their questionnaire to potential season ticket holders to find the best fit for them.


Yeah, I saw that and it's a pretty neat little piece of marketing. They've used the survey to come up with a profile of each section. So, if you are buying tickets you have an idea of what you can expect in each:

http://tickets.soundersfc.com/?screen=tickets (http://tickets.soundersfc.com/?screen=tickets)

That said, they don't "get...non-contributors out of these seats" based on a questionaire. They simply provide a profile and let the fan choose the area that best suits their interest (subject to availability of course). There are no guarantees that you'll get the experience you want but it does improve your odds.

Simply a neat tool. I'm all for stuff like that.

I'm simply pointing out that if you favour having control over who gets tickets and place that control within a group, opting to pass out tickets only to people that fit your version of a fan could be opening up a whole can of worms.

Nomad
06-30-2009, 01:04 PM
I'm simply pointing out that if you favour having control over who gets tickets and place that control within a group, opting to pass out tickets only to people that fit your version of a fan could be opening up a whole can of worms.

I do not agree.

Let's use the premise that RPB has control over section 112. Now if one were denied tickets into this section, it's not saying they were denied access to other sections so i do not see any merits in a lawsuit. You can still go to matches and enjoy watching and/or supporting the club.

olegunnar
06-30-2009, 01:07 PM
I'm simply pointing out that if you favour having control over who gets tickets and place that control within a group, opting to pass out tickets only to people that fit your version of a fan could be opening up a whole can of worms.

How is that any different than a soccer club...let say Oakville Soccer club, having blocks of tickets to sell to their members...and their members only?

It's already happening at BMO.

"The Oakville Soccer club is proud to offer its members a special opportunity to attend a game of our country’s premier professional soccer team. Through the Oakville Soccer Club's unique partnership with the Toronto FC, the OSC is able to offer its members outstanding seats at beautiful BMO Field for all home games. All seats will be located in section 126, "
http://www.oakvillesoccer.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=417:toronto-fc-tickets-now-available-online&catid=36:houseleaguenews&Itemid=70

C.Ronaldo
06-30-2009, 01:10 PM
they tossed the can of worms, and opted for a bag of prawns.

b/c thats what they want being eaten in the stands by their corporate fan base

Pookie
06-30-2009, 01:58 PM
How is that any different than a soccer club...let say Oakville Soccer club, having blocks of tickets to sell to their members...and their members only?

It's already happening at BMO.

"The Oakville Soccer club is proud to offer its members a special opportunity to attend a game of our country’s premier professional soccer team. Through the Oakville Soccer Club's unique partnership with the Toronto FC, the OSC is able to offer its members outstanding seats at beautiful BMO Field for all home games. All seats will be located in section 126, "
http://www.oakvillesoccer.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=417:toronto-fc-tickets-now-available-online&catid=36:houseleaguenews&Itemid=70

It's not necessarily different IF the Oakville Soccer Club allows anyone to join.

The premise that I was responding to was the idea that "non contributing" persons would be moved out/denied access. Non contributing can mean a number of things to a number of people but if that were to be taken to mean old, families, soccer moms that is your problem.

If that sentiment is used to determine who gets tickets that's a problem. If you say then we'll only sell to members but use that criteria to influence your membership, then that is where you cross into discriminatory territory.

The Oakville Soccer Club does not deny eldery, families or soccer moms membership. Therefore, no one is effectively excluded.

If a SG took the same policy, then the scenarios are identical. But that doesn't necessarily address the "non contributor" being moved out.

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-30-2009, 02:00 PM
I hate to be a pessimist, but the difference between us and the Oakville Soccer Club, and MLSE's willingness to grant either group control of ticketing, is obvious.

olegunnar
06-30-2009, 02:30 PM
It's not necessarily different IF the Oakville Soccer Club allows anyone to join.

The premise that I was responding to was the idea that "non contributing" persons would be moved out/denied access. Non contributing can mean a number of things to a number of people but if that were to be taken to mean old, families, soccer moms that is your problem.

If that sentiment is used to determine who gets tickets that's a problem. If you say then we'll only sell to members but use that criteria to influence your membership, then that is where you cross into discriminatory territory.

The Oakville Soccer Club does not deny eldery, families or soccer moms membership. Therefore, no one is effectively excluded.

If a SG took the same policy, then the scenarios are identical. But that doesn't necessarily address the "non contributor" being moved out.

That's a strawman argument though.

The relevent issue is...The FO has reserved and sold a large block of tickets to an organized group.

What the group decides to do with them after that has happened is irrelevent since the control and decision making is out of the hands of the FO.

Does the FO give a shit who you take to the games? They're concerned with selling the tickets not who you the buyer decides to have use the tickets.

Pookie
06-30-2009, 03:00 PM
That's a strawman argument though.

The relevent issue is...The FO has reserved and sold a large block of tickets to an organized group.

What the group decides to do with them after that has happened is irrelevent since the control and decision making is out of the hands of the FO.

Does the FO give a shit who you take to the games? They're concerned with selling the tickets not who you the buyer decides to have use the tickets.

Absolutely. The FO doesn't care, they are too busy counting their money.

I'm saying if someone is suggesting that a solution to the game day experience issue is that a SG should take it upon themselves to control who gets in their section and "move out non-contributors", the complete legal ramifications fall on them.

I think a better solution is to copy Seattle's profile tool and put the responsibility on those buying tickets for single games and for all of us during pre-season "relocation" events to pick a section better suited to our interests.

It sure beats paying a lawyer for what is essentially a volunteer passion.

AL-MO
06-30-2009, 03:05 PM
I haven't seen Vox stick his head into this thread yet....

Nomad
06-30-2009, 03:06 PM
I haven't seen Vox stick his head into this thread yet....

Funny enough, i'm ok with that. :D

AL-MO
06-30-2009, 03:16 PM
Absolutely. The FO doesn't care, they are too busy counting their money.

I'm saying if someone is suggesting that a solution to the game day experience issue is that a SG should take it upon themselves to control who gets in their section and "move out non-contributors", the complete legal ramifications fall on them.

I think a better solution is to copy Seattle's profile tool and put the responsibility on those buying tickets for single games and for all of us during pre-season "relocation" events to pick a section better suited to our interests.

It sure beats paying a lawyer for what is essentially a volunteer passion.

'legal' ramifications? I don't think discrimination against people who aren't interested in singing/chanting/jumping/waving a flag exists.

I am sure a lawyer could come up with an argument that by doing this we would be discriminating against the elderly, women and children. Of course its not the case when we have women and children in the section already.

And why would said person want to be there in the first place?

If for example this was to happen to 112, the only thing that would take place is the scalper seats are immediately replaced by members of the SG. I don't think anyone else would be leaving. The SG would then work out a ticket strategy (I know its sounds complicated - but its really not) to satisfy the interests of its members. (maybe some are given to members as season tickets on a random basis, and some are sold for individual games for members who don't already have tickets etc)

olegunnar
06-30-2009, 03:20 PM
Absolutely. The FO doesn't care, they are too busy counting their money.

I'm saying if someone is suggesting that a solution to the game day experience issue is that a SG should take it upon themselves to control who gets in their section and "move out non-contributors", the complete legal ramifications fall on them.

I think a better solution is to copy Seattle's profile tool and put the responsibility on those buying tickets for single games and for all of us during pre-season "relocation" events to pick a section better suited to our interests.

It sure beats paying a lawyer for what is essentially a volunteer passion.

But the FO isn't going to sell seats that are already occupied. So this whole what if, is pointless. That's what makes the oakville soccer club deal so sweet...they have seats in 126 reserved for them every year.


In any event this kind of stuff won't happen any time soon. For it to happen and be successful there needs to be real supporters groups with real organization. On the whole...we're not there yet. We being toronto fc supporters as a whole, not one specific group or fan club.

KdotOdot
06-30-2009, 03:23 PM
'legal' ramifications? I don't think discrimination against people who aren't interested in singing/chanting/jumping/waving a flag exists.

I am sure a lawyer could come up with an argument that by doing this we would be discriminating against the elderly, women and children. Of course its not the case when we have women and children in the section already.

And why would said person want to be there in the first place?

If for example this was to happen to 112, the only thing that would take place is the scalper seats are immediately replaced by members of the SG. I don't think anyone else would be leaving. The SG would then work out a ticket strategy (I know its sounds complicated - but its really not) to satisfy the interests of its members. (maybe some are given to members as season tickets on a random basis, and some are sold for individual games for members who don't already have tickets etc)

Dude don't get suckered in. This maphukka's like the ULTIMATE Troll.

Dudes like the Fedor of Trolls. If Trolls had a king he'd be Pookius Maximus Trollus.

No self respecting man, regardless of their sexual orientation, would name themselves Pookie on a message board. He's been taking a HUGE GIANT piss here for quite some time.

AL-MO
06-30-2009, 03:23 PM
But the FO isn't going to sell seats that are already occupied. So this whole what if, is pointless. That's what makes the oakville soccer club deal so sweet...they have seats in 126 reserved for them every year.


In any event this kind of stuff won't happen any time soon. For it to happen and be successful there needs to be real supporters groups with real organization. On the whole...we're not there yet. We being toronto fc supporters as a whole, not one specific group or fan club.

Agreed.

Pookie
06-30-2009, 03:37 PM
But the FO isn't going to sell seats that are already occupied. So this whole what if, is pointless. That's what makes the oakville soccer club deal so sweet...they have seats in 126 reserved for them every year.


In any event this kind of stuff won't happen any time soon. For it to happen and be successful there needs to be real supporters groups with real organization. On the whole...we're not there yet. We being toronto fc supporters as a whole, not one specific group or fan club.

Yeah, I think a number of clubs are kicking themselves for not taking advantage of group allocations in the early days of the team.

Al-mo, it's not the lack of banner waving that is the potential problem.

It's denying tickets to people because they fit a profile. I'm not saying this is a RBP practice, or even a desired one (or a practice of the NEE, U-sector or others)... but I think it's clear that there are few people that have expressed a desire to rid themselves of certain "types" and if given the power, would do so. I'm not sure those people understand exactly what they'd be opening themselves up to. That's all.

Nomad
06-30-2009, 03:43 PM
No one is going to discriminate on the way you look(all of the SGs have people who are middleaged in them). They would discriminate on the way you act (or lack thereof)...and rightly so.

Being in an SG means there should be certain things expected of you. If you can not (or will not) fulfill this request, go sit in a non-affiliated section where you can cheer to your so desires.

It's all pretty simple stuff. I don't understand why it needs to be complicated.

AL-MO
06-30-2009, 03:45 PM
Yeah, I think a number of clubs are kicking themselves for not taking advantage of group allocations in the early days of the team.

Al-mo, it's not the lack of banner waving that is the potential problem.

It's denying tickets to people because they fit a profile. I'm not saying this is a RBP practice, or even a desired one (or a practice of the NEE, U-sector or others)... but I think it's clear that there are few people that have expressed a desire to rid themselves of certain "types" and if given the power, would do so. I'm not sure those people understand exactly what they'd be opening themselves up to. That's all.

I get what you are saying.

But as long as you give 100% while in the stands I don't think anyone cares what 'profile' you fit.

nobuzz
06-30-2009, 05:22 PM
I get what you are saying.

But as long as you give 100% while in the stands I don't think anyone cares what 'profile' you fit.
Exactly.

It also means that I should not have to join a supporters group to keep my tickets in 111. I sing and chant but don't feel like I should have to join a supporters group in order to get the right to do that.

I visit all of the SG's board and think they all have a purpose, but, when the groups don't get along and members can't even see eye to eye on things why should they dictate where I can sit.

RedMAN127
06-30-2009, 06:19 PM
I think I could get behind this

111-112 = RPB
113 = USector
127 = NEE

The rest can go 115-119 if they want to stand, or dont want to belong to an affliated group.

... I think when you compare RPB to these other groups it skews the relevence somewhat ... there is literally a magnitude of difference in the number of members of these groups (both full and site registered) so as a start it may be more relevant for RPB as they could demonstrate the size of membership to make this work.

That said it also appears that many RPB are listing seats outside of 111/112 has anyone compiled a seating chart to see how many unaffiliated seats are in these sections and how many of the RPB members are intrested in reallocation to the sections?

This may also have to wait till a north section is installed to create the opportunity for such a large re-organisation.

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-30-2009, 06:23 PM
I don't own season's tickets but if I did I'd swap them for ones in 112 in a heartbeat.

Roogsy
06-30-2009, 06:40 PM
We had a chart on the old board. I think we lost it when we made the move to the new board.

Not to mention, there are lots of new members and some members have moved as well.

It may be worthwhile to compile a new list.

clc12
07-01-2009, 04:43 PM
how about selling the tickets for the supporters groups section separately. relocate season ticket holders to other locations throughout the stadium (unless they wish to stay where they are) and leave the north and south ends open and sell those tickets on a game by game basis. kind of like what they do in argentina. this way the people that go into those sections kind of know what they are getting into.

in argentina fans can become members of the club. the members usually get first crack at the tickets and sometimes a few dollars off as well. maybe the club can create something similar. this way fans that don't want to join a specific SG but still want to support the team now have another viable option.

just my two cents.

Blizzard
07-01-2009, 06:30 PM
how about selling the tickets for the supporters groups section separately. relocate season ticket holders to other locations throughout the stadium (unless they wish to stay where they are) and leave the north and south ends open and sell those tickets on a game by game basis. kind of like what they do in argentina. this way the people that go into those sections kind of know what they are getting into.

in argentina fans can become members of the club. the members usually get first crack at the tickets and sometimes a few dollars off as well. maybe the club can create something similar. this way fans that don't want to join a specific SG but still want to support the team now have another viable option.

just my two cents.

Remember, anybody who moves out of the south end is going to be paying an increased price for tickets so few will leave. Many are in the south end not because they are devoted and loud supporters but because it is the cheapest seat in the house.

Also remember, 80% of the stadium is pre-sold to STH'ers. You can't leave the ends open for game-by-game sales. They are already sold.

The only way this can realistically work is if and when stadium expansion takes place. Either that or take away season tickets from 25% of the people who have them now! That would be a great PR move wouldn't it. :(

Mikey
07-01-2009, 07:19 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the yellow zone ceases to exist at the end of this season and prices are brought into line with the light grey "supporters sections".

C.Ronaldo
07-02-2009, 08:37 AM
^ just waiting for that to happen, and may be a good solution that would make MLSE super happy