Vitti to leave? Rumor

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I predict the next player leaving TFC will be Vitti, which is disappointing to me. I think he has been badly misused BUT he needs to do something with the opportunities he has been given and he didn't.

I'm told by a reliable contact that Cummins has already asked Mo to terminate the loan deal.

Saw this in the Garcia thread, thought it deserves its own thread

[Roogsy]

Dino tends to be well connected. Having not been able to produce any goals, I don't see why this isn't possible. Which is too bad. I have been quite vocal about how much I like his skill and game. But it gets really hard to defend when you don't have a single goal to back up your case.

[Damien]

The guy has some good skills... finishing just isn't one of them. Too bad, cuz I had high hopes for him.

[James Oliphant]

Dino tends to be well connected. Having not been able to produce any goals, I don't see why this isn't possible. Which is too bad. I have been quite vocal about how much I like his skill and game. But it gets really hard to defend when you don't have a single goal to back up your case.

My feelings exactly.

[Yohan]

Vitti may need to go play for USL or something for a year or so, just to get his confidence back

so much talent wasted on poor finishing

or, he can just accept that he;s not a striker, and redefine himself as an attacking midfielder and work on his distribution and passing

[eustacchio]

man, I think if he scored one he would score a ton. Unfortunately he hasn't scored one.

[Kevvv]

man, I think if he scored one he would score a ton. Unfortunately he hasn't scored one.


I thought the same about Barrett. But I'd be happy with Vitti assisting a ton of goals, as long as someone can pot them.

[RealG-TFC]

If we plan to go anywhere in the Champions League this year, we should not let him go.

[eustacchio]

I thought the same about Barrett. But I'd be happy with Vitti assisting a ton of goals, as long as someone can pot them.

I'd be happy with that too. I don't think they should let him go just yet.

[jloome]

If we plan to go anywhere in the Champions League this year, we should not let him go.

Agreed. Brings lots more than goals to the table.

[rocker]

I saw Vitti tonight sitting on the patio at Hemingway's in Yorkville with some non-player dude. Didn't have the courage to say hello.

[PJC]

Vitti is a good player. I hope he doesn't go, but he doesn't look like a striker to me. He looks more of an attacking midfielder. Also, I had high hopes for Barrett, but he hasn't lived up to my expectations to say the least. TFC needs a class striker.

[Bars92]

Vitti is just a very talented young player that is trying to find his way. We wouldn't miss him if he left, but I hope he stays. He is way above USL and should really be playing in Argentina.

[AdamZ]

I like Vitti, but I don't think he's productive enough considering his salary, and I don't mean in terms of goals.

We have DeRo and Guevara who are both midfielders who can play as strikers and who score goals from midfield. Vitti has played well on several occasions, but well enough? No. We don't need a third AM, especially when Cronin's doing well on the wing, Barrett plays alright aside from converting his chances, etc. He's just not the player we should be paying 300,000.

Now if we were paying Vitti 100,000-200,000 and developing him I could see that argument, but 300,000? WAY too much. WAY too much. Cummins obviously isn't satisfied with him.

[a_billi]

This does not make any sense to me. He put's a player out of his natural position and expect to him score goals. If he had gotten 1/5 of the chances Barret got we would not be having this discussion. If we want to make any noise in the champions league we need him on this team. Once Guevara leaves Vitti can flourish in the play making attacking mid-field role. Hes still created the most chances and has the best vision next to Dero on our team. When he is on the pitch our control of the ball is better we have better chances and we actually have hustle. If anything Barret should be shown the door his contract is disgusting. And dont give me the he scored yesterday line. He had a wide open and just put his head down and made contact with the ball. His goal scored to chances is horrible. I swear to god id be so pissed if Vitti get's cut for some no names has been dude from the dungeons of the Scottish 7 divison pancake leauge. When Vitti has the ball good things happen. If he leaves watch happens to the chances were creating now and its going to be tough to watch when Guvera leaves also.

[Shakes McQueen]

I like Vitti, but I don't think he's productive enough considering his salary, and I don't mean in terms of goals.

We have DeRo and Guevara who are both midfielders who can play as strikers and who score goals from midfield. Vitti has played well on several occasions, but well enough? No. We don't need a third AM, especially when Cronin's doing well on the wing, Barrett plays alright aside from converting his chances, etc. He's just not the player we should be paying 300,000.

Now if we were paying Vitti 100,000-200,000 and developing him I could see that argument, but 300,000? WAY too much. WAY too much. Cummins obviously isn't satisfied with him.

I can agree with this. Vitti might play better as an AMF, just like Barrett might play better on the wing - but only one of them is costing us a whopping $300K. And both are paid to ultimately score goals.

That said, I don't see the sense in getting rid of Vitti yet, unless it frees up his salary for another sensible move they want to make.

I hope he can get a goal soon, because like others have said, I think that first goal would do him a world of good. But it's been weeks now, and he hasn't gotten one. You can't wait forever.

- Scott

[poppamidnight]

Vitti may need to go play for USL or something for a year or so, just to get his confidence back

so much talent wasted on poor finishing

or, he can just accept that he;s not a striker, and redefine himself as an attacking midfielder and work on his distribution and passing

He's accepted he's not a striker man,

He's been the best player on the pitch (or at least tied w/ Guevara) when he plays the right wing,

You can't blame him if he sucks cuz the coaching is putting him on the wrong side....


That said, we don't need him or Barrett to score,
Our team is built to attack through DeRo, Guevara, Dichio....

...and we have Ali Gerba (possibly) along w/ OBW on the way...

I'm still not comprehending why people are talking like we need Barrett or Vitti to score as strikers....
...We don't.
We need De Ro, Danny and Amado on their game, and our attack will likely go through OBW or Gerba once/if they are set to go

[djking2]

Cummins obviously knows more about Vitti's attitude to playing here than I do but there are two good cases for giving him some time.

1. He's expensive but so was Claudio Lopez beofre he took a 600G paycut this year

2. He's not producing as expected and neither did Schelotto in 2007.

Coincidentally they're also both Argentinian. Vitti's a young talented player and I hope TFC management has more patience with him than he's likely to get from fans.

[JonO]

That said, I don't see the sense in getting rid of Vitti yet, unless it frees up his salary for another sensible move they want to make.
- Scott
This

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Cummins obviously knows more about Vitti's attitude to playing here than I do but there are two good cases for giving him some time.

1. He's expensive but so was Claudio Lopez beofre he took a 600G paycut this year

2. He's not producing as expected and neither did Schelotto in 2007.

Coincidentally they're also both Argentinian. Vitti's a young talented player and I hope TFC management has more patience with him than he's likely to get from fans.
Yep. I think one of the things we need to work on is realizing that young players will get better over time. At times people here have pondered whether we should ship out Wynne at times when he suffers a dip in form; Wynne is only going to get better as time goes on. Same with Vitti, and while I'm cringing as I type this, same with Barrett.

As someone said, Vitti is a natural winger and while I bet he'd be even better playing as a 'trequartistsa', similar to Geuvara's role except with a sole focus on attacking, we have Guevara in a similar role. He's the best player we have right now in a right wing position and we should use him. He has great natural talent and has played a huge role in a lot of games for us.

[Shakes McQueen]

He's accepted he's not a striker man,

He's been the best player on the pitch (or at least tied w/ Guevara) when he plays the right wing,

You can't blame him if he sucks cuz the coaching is putting him on the wrong side....


That said, we don't need him or Barrett to score,
Our team is built to attack through DeRo, Guevara, Dichio....

...and we have Ali Gerba (possibly) along w/ OBW on the way...

I'm still not comprehending why people are talking like we need Barrett or Vitti to score as strikers....
...We don't.
We need De Ro, Danny and Amado on their game, and our attack will likely go through OBW or Gerba once/if they are set to go

Seriously?! Vitti and Barrett are two of our regular starting strikers, that's why we expect them to score!

While goals from DeRo and Guevara are essential to the success of our attack (being two of our more talented players going forward), we are doomed to abject failure if we rely on them to provide our primary scoring threat on a regular basis.

When we signed Vitti, we signed him to be a striker - not an attacking midfielder, whether that's his strongest suit, or not.

If he can't do the job, then I hope Gerba or OBW can. But if he can't, then he likely needs to go. We can't afford to have a $300K player sitting around for midfield bench depth.

I'd love to see Vitti hit his stride for this club, because I was a huge supporter of the move to bring him in. But we can't afford to sit around all fucking season blathering about how great his technical skills are, or how he shouldn't be a striker - he was brought in to play striker, and more importantly, to SCORE GOALS. He doesn't have a single one yet, and we are quickly approaching the mid-way point of our season!

- Scott

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

We've only used him once as a lead striker, though, and in that game he had a goal wrongfully disallowed for offside- about the only chance he got. ;)

As a winger his play has been first class, and in our version of the 4-3-3, he plays well wide of the 18 yard box and therefore doesn't get that many clear-cut chances. The best chances he's had this year he's created himself; just a shame he can't score them.

I admit I do make excuses for his lack of finish, but that's only because I think that he could be a key player for years to come. We brought Guevara in to score goals, and he didn't do a lot of it last season- but look at him this year, he's a monster. I just feel that Vitti is too good to let go so soon. I'd definitely rather have him than Barrett, who also doesn't score, and has had many more clear-cut chances than Vitti.

[Mikey]

I like Vitti, he and I have a lot in common, we have both scored exactly the same number of goals for TFC.....

[standFree]

I see more promise in Barrett than I do in Vitti. His second touch always seems to be a tackle. Also how many times does he have to try and beat someone before eventually losing the ball.

[Beach_Red]

Cummins obviously knows more about Vitti's attitude to playing here than I do but...

There's always a but ;).

I do like on this site how we almost always expect the worst from our management. It's like we hope for the worst.

Maybe Cummins actually does know something....

[ua-kozak_TFC]

I will get a lot of stick for this. BUT i would gladly Keep Vitti( if he decided to play for half of what he's earning at the moment) and Trade gUEVARA in heart beat... I think Vitti has done way more play making than guevara has this year, I feel that guevara plays when he feels like it and you can barely notice him on the field (aside from the time he has scored). DOn;t get m e wrong i am happy with the goa that he scored, i just think that we are wasting a position on guevara since he doesn;t create momentum and this is key where he plays.. Vitti has been doing this ever day he plays.. i wouldn;t be surprised if someone else in tthe league sign him at smaller salary.

[ensco]

I would like Vitti to get the rest of the season. He is undeniably underachieving, but he has so much visible talent. Cut him in October, if he has continued to struggle.

I mean, who would we bring in to replace him? It'll just be another Robert/Ricketts.

Trader Mo needs to calm down now. We've dropped three guys in 2 weeks, and brought in 2/3 new ones. Let's see what we've got.

[Fushida]

Technical or not I don't think we can keep double standards for Vitti and Barrett. As much as I'd hate to say it, those two are on the same standing right now. Vitti more technical? Sure, but he has nothing to show for it. Barrett has been missing tons? But he also scores a few from time to time. Either way both are underperforming. There's only so many times that you can say "Barrett is so hard working" and "Vitti has great technical skill" when they're not producing as strikers. I support giving Vitti until the end of the season to show up, but getting subbed at 45 min during the limpact game doesn't bode well....

[Beach_Red]

I will get a lot of stick for this. BUT i would gladly Keep Vitti( if he decided to play for half of what he's earning at the moment) and Trade gUEVARA in heart beat... I think Vitti has done way more play making than guevara has this year, I feel that guevara plays when he feels like it and you can barely notice him on the field (aside from the time he has scored). DOn;t get m e wrong i am happy with the goa that he scored, i just think that we are wasting a position on guevara since he doesn;t create momentum and this is key where he plays.. Vitti has been doing this ever day he plays.. i wouldn;t be surprised if someone else in tthe league sign him at smaller salary.

Don't fall off your chair, but I agree with you. And many other teams would sign Vitti right away, but Guevara has burned some bridges in MLS and would any other team take a chance on him? I don't think so. I always thought signing Guevara was a bit of a desperation move, he'd left MLS and only came here because he had some kind of relationship with Mo. Good move at the time, and if Guevara played more consistently then okay, but he doesn't. Next game he may do nothing.

Vitti has plenty of skill, even I can see that.

(of course, maybe if I'm agreeing with you, you might want to reconsider your opinion ;)).

[Baggio2TFC]

Technical or not I don't think we can keep double standards for Vitti and Barrett. As much as I'd hate to say it, those two are on the same standing right now. Vitti more technical? Sure, but he has nothing to show for it. Barrett has been missing tons? But he also scores a few from time to time. Either way both are underperforming. There's only so many times that you can say "Barrett is so hard working" and "Vitti has great technical skill" when they're not producing as strikers. I support giving Vitti until the end of the season to show up, but getting subbed at 45 min during the limpact game doesn't bode well....

Personally, I think subbing him for Barrett was a huge mistake. Vitti was doing just fine. Other then the deflection off the head, did Barrett really do anything? I know Vitti controled the play alot more then Barrett did.

Must be cause Cummins just does not understand ball control.

[backbeat]

Vitti has NEVER been given the same opporutnity and time as Barrett - NEVER!! if Vitti played in the spot that Barrett has time after time after time and had the same results then i could see the comparison but it HAS NOT happened.

Put Vitti up front as much as Barrett has been given and then we'll see.

Vitti is well worth keeping, either give him the role of Striker or play him as an attacking mid - he set up Dichio beauiflly in montreal adn Danny popped it over the net - Vitti sets up beautiful chances game in and game out.

[Azerban]

If we release him they better have a better player with a pen in hand because I'm fucking sick of hemorrhaging players and not getting anything in return.

[reggie]

they are crazy if they release him before the gold cup...

[poppamidnight]

Seriously?! Vitti and Barrett are two of our regular starting strikers, that's why we expect them to score!

While goals from DeRo and Guevara are essential to the success of our attack (being two of our more talented players going forward), we are doomed to abject failure if we rely on them to provide our primary scoring threat on a regular basis.

When we signed Vitti, we signed him to be a striker - not an attacking midfielder, whether that's his strongest suit, or not.

If he can't do the job, then I hope Gerba or OBW can. But if he can't, then he likely needs to go. We can't afford to have a $300K player sitting around for midfield bench depth.

I'd love to see Vitti hit his stride for this club, because I was a huge supporter of the move to bring him in. But we can't afford to sit around all fucking season blathering about how great his technical skills are, or how he shouldn't be a striker - he was brought in to play striker, and more importantly, to SCORE GOALS. He doesn't have a single one yet, and we are quickly approaching the mid-way point of our season!

- Scott

Last I checked chad has been a sub the past 2 games (PS - that's a $202,000 player on the bench) , and Vitti has been playing on the wing...

It doesn't matter what we signed him or Barret for, They (Him + Vitti) can't do the job we asked of them (score goals), so theres no point holding out for them. Chad's had what? 1.5-2 yrs of oppurtunity as the go-to striker, Vitti's been part of this season..

We might as well get something out of them in ways that can help the team (play wing), which is what Cummins is doing,
More reason to believe this will be a longer-term plan for them: They just released 2 wingers this week (Smith/Ricketts)

If your saying Chad and Pablo are still currently our go-to-strikers, then im afraid to tell your that your the minority around Toronto FC management/players/fans...

I'll say it one more time for you in case you didn't get it the first couple times,

This is what TFC management and the majority on here seem to think (and I agree w/):

This team is now built to attack through Amado, DeRo, and Dichio,
NOT Vitti and/or Barrett
any transition won't come about until Gerbi and OBW are in uniform

[Ladies Love Julius James]

Fuck what a class guy. Met him at a club Thursday night. laaaaaad no

[rocker]

i'd keep Vitti. i'm curious as to when his Independiente contract is up? Maybe we can sign him directly. I wonder if he's getting the whole 300K or if that goes to Independiente and then Independiente pays him out of that, keeping their cut?
Cuz then maybe you could pay him more than they do, but the amount would be less than 300K in total.

Or just keep him and see if the cap goes up next year. then it's less of a burden.

[FluSH]

Dino tends to be well connected. Having not been able to produce any goals, I don't see why this isn't possible. Which is too bad. I have been quite vocal about how much I like his skill and game. But it gets really hard to defend when you don't have a single goal to back up your case.


Dino hears no lies...

[ua-kozak_TFC]

Last I checked chad has been a sub the past 2 games (PS - that's a $202,000 player on the bench) , and Vitti has been playing on the wing...

It doesn't matter what we signed him or Barret for, They (Him + Vitti) can't do the job we asked of them (score goals), so theres no point holding out for them. Chad's had what? 1.5-2 yrs of oppurtunity as the go-to striker, Vitti's been part of this season..

We might as well get something out of them in ways that can help the team (play wing), which is what Cummins is doing,
More reason to believe this will be a longer-term plan for them: They just released 2 wingers this week (Smith/Ricketts)

If your saying Chad and Pablo are still currently our go-to-strikers, then im afraid to tell your that your the minority around Toronto FC management/players/fans...

I'll say it one more time for you in case you didn't get it the first couple times,

This is what TFC management and the majority on here seem to think (and I agree w/):

This team is now built to attack through Amado, DeRo, and Dichio,
NOT Vitti and/or Barrett
any transition won't come about until Gerbi and OBW are in uniform
last time i checked... vitti played on the wing... since when a wide midfielder has become a stricker??? I am not going to deny that he missed a few but I think Barret missed 10 times more clear chances than he has...

[FluSH]

I like Vitti, but I don't think he's productive enough considering his salary, and I don't mean in terms of goals.

We have DeRo and Guevara who are both midfielders who can play as strikers and who score goals from midfield. Vitti has played well on several occasions, but well enough? No. We don't need a third AM, especially when Cronin's doing well on the wing, Barrett plays alright aside from converting his chances, etc. He's just not the player we should be paying 300,000.

Now if we were paying Vitti 100,000-200,000 and developing him I could see that argument, but 300,000? WAY too much. WAY too much. Cummins obviously isn't satisfied with him.

Exactly... However we are not paying Barrett $300k... I think Barrett has a spot on this team... Vitti... with his salary?... not so much

[FluSH]

Vitti has NEVER been given the same opporutnity and time as Barrett - NEVER!! if Vitti played in the spot that Barrett has time after time after time and had the same results then i could see the comparison but it HAS NOT happened.

Put Vitti up front as much as Barrett has been given and then we'll see.

Vitti is well worth keeping, either give him the role of Striker or play him as an attacking mid - he set up Dichio beauiflly in montreal adn Danny popped it over the net - Vitti sets up beautiful chances game in and game out.

I don't think Vitti has any more chances left... I truly believe that MTL game was his last or second last game for him to prove himself...

[jloome]

I will get a lot of stick for this. BUT i would gladly Keep Vitti( if he decided to play for half of what he's earning at the moment) and Trade gUEVARA in heart beat... I think Vitti has done way more play making than guevara has this year, I feel that guevara plays when he feels like it and you can barely notice him on the field (aside from the time he has scored). DOn;t get m e wrong i am happy with the goa that he scored, i just think that we are wasting a position on guevara since he doesn;t create momentum and this is key where he plays.. Vitti has been doing this ever day he plays.. i wouldn;t be surprised if someone else in tthe league sign him at smaller salary.

Guevara has seven goals and four assists and we're not even at the halfway break. In the Montreal game, his tenacity was as significant a factor as Dero; anyone who saw him track back defensively and make several key tackles could see that.

I've been harder on GUevara than probably anyone on these boards. But getting rid of him right now is INSANE. He's alread being mentioned, quite legitimately, asa candidate for league MVP this season.

Vitti is a fantastic young talent with a slow release that keeps costing him goals. But he's young. Getting rid of him, when we could potentially keep him long term at a lower wage (as has been noted, the pattern for Argentine MLS players) would be similarly insane, at least without something better in the pipe.

[FluSH]

I will get a lot of stick for this. BUT i would gladly Keep Vitti( if he decided to play for half of what he's earning at the moment) and Trade gUEVARA in heart beat... I think Vitti has done way more play making than guevara has this year, I feel that guevara plays when he feels like it and you can barely notice him on the field (aside from the time he has scored). DOn;t get m e wrong i am happy with the goa that he scored, i just think that we are wasting a position on guevara since he doesn;t create momentum and this is key where he plays.. Vitti has been doing this ever day he plays.. i wouldn;t be surprised if someone else in tthe league sign him at smaller salary.

You have officially gone mad... mad I tell you.

[rocker]

I love Vitti's skill.. how often do we see that in MLS players?
Yes he sometimes does that "run through three guys and lead to nothing" thing. But I saw that from a lot of players that have come through TFC (Smith, Welsh, Cunningham, Buddle, Ricketts etc.). But Vitti can also make pinpoint passes upfield to lead players on. He's also a good tackler when he gives the ball away.

At 23 I think he could still be something in MLS. Guevara, for example, didn't even join MLS til he was 27 and then became MVP. I think that skill will succeed long term.

Is his salary a burden? maybe... but unless his 300K goes to something better, then what's the point of dumping him? We might just be exchanging one similar player for another.

[DigzTFC!]

Let's think objectively here:

In 4 games against USL squads Vitti has zero goals and Chad Barrett has 2 goals and an assist. I think this is the most telling part of the story. Vitti didn't show up to play against a lesser opponent when we needed him the most.

If he was to be converted to a AM then he'd have to get in line behind Guevara and DeRo. At 300K we could return him and get a DP or a couple of nice squad players for depth. The rest of the roster moves should be focused on rounding out the squad for a playoff run. Which would include a proven goal scorer, DP or not, and another midfielder.

OBW should not be expected to do anything this year. Gerba will be part of the solution but not all of it. Barrett seems to score when others are scoring and fits the third - fourth striking option.

I don't want to start speculation but I believe Morientes was linked to TFC last year and if the rumors are true....thats a proven goal scorer

[Dub Narcotic]

Personally, I think subbing him for Barrett was a huge mistake. Vitti was doing just fine. Other then the deflection off the head, did Barrett really do anything? I know Vitti controled the play alot more then Barrett did.

Must be cause Cummins just does not understand ball control.

This must be a troll. Barrett had 1 goal and two assists in 45 minutes of playing time in that game.

[rocker]

At 300K we could return him and get a DP or a couple of nice squad players for depth.

but the question is whether we can guarantee that 300K will lead to a better player than Vitti. In theory, yes, but in practice, who knows. What's that old saying, "better the devil you know than the devil you don't". I have no idea if there's players MLS teams would want to let go to TFC at this point, and you won't find squad players as backup for 150K at this point from outside MLS. Everyone we've signed from outside MLS has been signed for at least 175K to start.

I think Vitti makes a contribution more than most of the midfielders we've signed and let go/traded ('cept O'Brien). It may not be amazing, but at least it's a certain level of quality. Is it overpaying? sure. but I don't see where we can find a Pablo Vitti clone for $150K in MLS. Nobody would give that up.

Of course signing a DP could be the solution to use Vitti's money. But who knows what's available out there on the market (that is, good players willing to come here).

[Darlofletch]

If we release him they better have a better player with a pen in hand because I'm fucking sick of hemorrhaging players and not getting anything in return.

I've got into barrett vs Vitti way too many times, so I'll just say that i fully agree with this. Unlike Johann Smith, Vitti does contribute, so may as well keep him around unless there's an improvement on board and approved by the league.

[Oldtimer]

Must be cause Cummins just does not understand ball control.

I love it when people say in your face comments like this without a shred of evidence (actually, our only issue with ball control is the turf).

[jazzy]

Vitti has NEVER been given the same opporutnity and time as Barrett - NEVER!! if Vitti played in the spot that Barrett has time after time after time and had the same results then i could see the comparison but it HAS NOT happened.

Put Vitti up front as much as Barrett has been given and then we'll see.

Vitti is well worth keeping, either give him the role of Striker or play him as an attacking mid - he set up Dichio beauiflly in montreal adn Danny popped it over the net - Vitti sets up beautiful chances game in and game out.

SO TRUE....his effort is there....his skills..are there.....however, he does make 1 move 2 many, too often, I think he pushes too hard instead of letting things happen.....but then again who knows who he has to impress to replace Barrett.....although lately has Cummins seen the light Barrett not starting and just bringing him on near the end to tire out the opposition

[jloome]

I love it when people say in your face comments like this without a shred of evidence (actually, our only issue with ball control is the turf).

While I find the initial comment just as asinine as you do, we have has significant other problems with ball control than the turf, such as an inability to play through the midfield under full-field pressure.

One of Garcia's big upsides is that he distributes the ball well from the backline, which has been evident in the last two games. He's sprung us the other way a couple of times. AS long as he and Sam cronin are playing opposite field, we'll always have someone near the back who can get the ball to an offensive player in the open.

[Pachuco]

WTF? now we have people calling for Guevara's head? Now that's funny shit.

[v00d00daddy]

I thing it would be a shame if they cut Vitti. He's one of the guys who looks to play possession football and keep the ball on the ground. He plays the kind of soccer I like to watch. I wish he would have scored on a couple of chances this season to make this decision a little easier.

Here's an idea for those of you who are hung up on Vittis salary. Why not cut Robbo and his 315k salary. We already have his replacement in Cronin and it opens up some space in the midfield. I for one think that Vitti contributes a hell of a lot more than this years version of Robbo.

[Fushida]

I thing it would be a shame if they cut Vitti. He's one of the guys who looks to play possession football and keep the ball on the ground. He plays the kind of soccer I like to watch. I wish he would have scored on a couple of chances this season to make this decision a little easier.

Here's an idea for those of you who are hung up on Vittis salary. Why not cut Robbo and his 315k salary. We already have his replacement in Cronin and it opens up some space in the midfield. I for one think that Vitti contributes a hell of a lot more than this years version of Robbo.

agreed

[FluSH]

I thing it would be a shame if they cut Vitti. He's one of the guys who looks to play possession football and keep the ball on the ground. He plays the kind of soccer I like to watch. I wish he would have scored on a couple of chances this season to make this decision a little easier.

Here's an idea for those of you who are hung up on Vittis salary. Why not cut Robbo and his 315k salary. We already have his replacement in Cronin and it opens up some space in the midfield. I for one think that Vitti contributes a hell of a lot more than this years version of Robbo.

Whaaaat?!?! Now cut Robbo...

This is madness! Our board has gone crazy

[ensco]

Whaaaat?!?! Now cut Robbo...

This is madness! Our board has gone crazy

I wouldn't cut him, but both Robbo and Brennan, something is missing this year.

[Kaz]

how about this lets cut no one until well after july 15th. and bring two people in. Gerba seems to be one... but Mo needs to be looking for a striker if Gerba dosen't sign. and at least one more to shore up the back line a bit. We've still conceded 22 goals in league play this year and that is unacceptable, we'd be over 20 points if not for that.

[Fushida]

not saying cut robbo, but in using the high salary excuse, robbo has comparable salary to vitti and hasn't performed even close to the level of the team this year.

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

Vitti need's to be our playmaker, he's good on the ball, like's to pass, make's good run's off the ball, put's ball in the box and make's good 1v1 move's on CB. He can't put the ball in the net so get someone that will so Vitti can feed him so sick ball's.


hopefully Gerba can come here and do that for us and it will hopefully make Vitti better to if he stay's here.

[noochie]

Whaaaat?!?! Now cut Robbo...

This is madness! Our board has gone crazy

That or they are still on a serious bender dating back to Thursday afternoon :)

[Shakes McQueen]

Here's an idea for those of you who are hung up on Vittis salary. Why not cut Robbo and his 315k salary. We already have his replacement in Cronin and it opens up some space in the midfield. I for one think that Vitti contributes a hell of a lot more than this years version of Robbo.

I'm not hung up on Vitti's salary - I'm hung up on the amount we are paying him to not do the job he was brought in to do - SCORE GOALS. Robbo makes a lot of money, but he does his job well.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

If your saying Chad and Pablo are still currently our go-to-strikers, then im afraid to tell your that your the minority around Toronto FC management/players/fans...

One of them is a starting forward pretty much every game, and sometimes both. Explain how that fact puts me in a minority position when I say they are two of our regular starting strikers (alongside Dichio)?


This is what TFC management and the majority on here seem to think (and I agree w/)
Oh goody, more "phantom majorities".And it's all bolded text too. This is serious business.Just casually claiming the majority think something, with no objective proof, is the laziest possible way to field an argument.You think most people here are fine with Barrett and Vitti not being able to score?


This team is now built to attack through Amado, DeRo, and Dichio, NOT Vitti and/or Barrett
any transition won't come about until Gerbi and OBW are in uniformAnd if our recent run of league results haven't already shown you this - we CAN'T RELY ON OUR MIDFIELD TO BE OUR PRIMARY SCORING THREAT. And the scrambling of Mo to find a striker to sign, who can get the job done (we hope), tells me at least he, and probably Cummins too, AGREE WITH ME.

Yeah, this team is built around our midfield, just like Barcelona operates through Xavi and Iniesta. Their wingers and forward are still the highest scoring players on their team.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

You have officially gone mad... mad I tell you.

Seriously. I couldn't believe what I was reading.

He has officially lost all credibility.

I would say Guevara is in the running for the league MVP...and this guy argues we should let him go??? :eek:

[Broadview]

Robbo took a pay cut, remember?

Not sure what he's getting, still high I'm sure.

Just don't cut anyone without a better replacement please.

[Roogsy]

I love Vitti's skill.. how often do we see that in MLS players?
Yes he sometimes does that "run through three guys and lead to nothing" thing. But I saw that from a lot of players that have come through TFC (Smith, Welsh, Cunningham, Buddle, Ricketts etc.). But Vitti can also make pinpoint passes upfield to lead players on. He's also a good tackler when he gives the ball away.

At 23 I think he could still be something in MLS. Guevara, for example, didn't even join MLS til he was 27 and then became MVP. I think that skill will succeed long term.

Is his salary a burden? maybe... but unless his 300K goes to something better, then what's the point of dumping him? We might just be exchanging one similar player for another.

really good post

[Shakes McQueen]

I've got into barrett vs Vitti way too many times, so I'll just say that i fully agree with this. Unlike Johann Smith, Vitti does contribute, so may as well keep him around unless there's an improvement on board and approved by the league.

Exactly, and this is all I said to begin with.

Keep Vitti, unless we have a better, sensible signing imminent. I want him to be successful, but even supposed "playmakers" are supposed to contribute goals.

I even support keeping Vitti longer term. But definitely not at $300K a year, based on his performance to-date.

- Scott

[grizzle]

I hope they don't let go of Vitti, but that is really up to the coaches. I know he hasn't done much, but they always pull him half way through the game and I think they need to put more confidence in him.

[sampace]

Vitti has not scored. Yes he is young, so was Lombardo, who I thought coming from playing in Serie C in Italy had some potential, but it did not translate either. Why didn't Lombardo get more time because of his youth to develop with TFC? Definetly some unrealistic expectaions were put on him at his age, to do more than what he was ready to do.

Now for Vitti, I agree, unless they have another player ready to come in immediately, it is silly to let him go. They are short 2 players already, and looking like they'll be 6 or 7 more down during the Gold Cup playdowns. They need people to put in the line up.

[S_D]

Exactly, and this is all I said to begin with.

Keep Vitti, unless we have a better, sensible signing imminent. I want him to be successful, but even supposed "playmakers" are supposed to contribute goals.

I even support keeping Vitti longer term. But definitely not at $300K a year, based on his performance to-date.

- Scott

I think we have to put it into perspective regarding the salary he is being paid. 300K isn't a burden as long as it isn't a hinderance to the cap. If we see a healthy increase to the cap next season the 300K may not be a problem at all. If we don't and TFC makes the playoffs, I think Vitti is toast no matter what because the payroll will have to be chopped due to lower allocation money received.

I think as well Vitti has to be given the rest of the season to see what he can do. He may not be a goal scorer but an assist man. But to be an assist man you have to have someone scoring the goals.

Under Carver, DD hardly saw the pitch. When Vitti played under Carver, usually it was Barrett that was playing CF and lets be honest his strike rate has been terrible. What we need to see to make a good judgement of what Vitti can do, is having a competent CF who can score the goals and not just be a target man that DD is. Is OW the man? I guess in time we will be able to tell, but until we have that sort of individual I think Vitti is going to look somewhat bad.

As a winger, I have really liked what I have seen in Vitti, and I think a better comparison rather Vitti vs. Barrett is Vitti vs. Ricketts.

From my perspective Vitti > Ricketts because he has been able to make the penetrating runs, attack the ball and get crosses in. Ricketts had a lot of problems when he was marked close and would usually lose the ball because he was too busy dipsy-doodling, whereas Vitti just goes for it.

Not saying Vitti is a God or anything because he has lost the ball on numerous occasions, but to me the big difference is he was doing something with it when he lost it, whereas Rickets wasn't.

[ua-kozak_TFC]

You have officially gone mad... mad I tell you.
possibly... but i i think there is a mea thod to my madness... I think his stakes are really high at the moment... and we could get something really really good for him in the league... Atleast the way i see it... beside the goals i think he plays only when he feels like it...but that's just me

[trane]

I can agree with this. Vitti might play better as an AMF, just like Barrett might play better on the wing - but only one of them is costing us a whopping $300K. And both are paid to ultimately score goals.

That said, I don't see the sense in getting rid of Vitti yet, unless it frees up his salary for another sensible move they want to make.

I hope he can get a goal soon, because like others have said, I think that first goal would do him a world of good. But it's been weeks now, and he hasn't gotten one. You can't wait forever.

- Scott

That is another problem, with the salary cap, I would not want to get rid of either Barret or Vitti, they have skills and atributes that we need. However, as you said as we are paying them MLS "striker" salary's it may become hard to keep them.

[Shakes McQueen]

That is another problem, with the salary cap, I would not want to get rid of either Barret or Vitti, they have skills and atributes that we need. However, as you said as we are paying them MLS "striker" salary's it may become hard to keep them.

Exactly. ESPECIALLY if those salaries are preventing us from signing a player we could really use.

If they aren't, then I'm fine with keeping Vitti. No point in unloading a player, if there isn't someone useful waiting in the wings. In that case, I'd fully support giving Vitti more chances to get it together.

But unfortunately, at the end of the day, Vitti's loan contract is easier to get off the books than Barrett's longer term deal.

- Scott

[poppamidnight]

One of them is a starting forward pretty much every game, and sometimes both. Explain how that fact puts me in a minority position when I say they are two of our regular starting strikers (alongside Dichio)?

No, You said they were our strikers...
...they aren't,
Nobody has played in front of Dichio for ages now....
A 'Wing' is different than a 'striker'...
Don't flip flop on your wording, here's your quote:



Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=586151#post586151)
Seriously?! Vitti and Barrett are two of our regular starting strikers, that's why we expect them to score!

They aren't regular starting strikers,
they (well Vitti as per last 2 games) are starting wings

A starting striker would be playing ahead of Dichio,
As of the last few games, Danny's been playing as the man up front, bringing down possession to play to our MF's (Amado) or swinging it out wide to our wings...

...There's absolutely no need for you to start an argument for argument sake,


And if our recent run of league results haven't already shown you this - we CAN'T RELY ON OUR MIDFIELD TO BE OUR PRIMARY SCORING THREAT. And the scrambling of Mo to find a striker to sign, who can get the job done (we hope), tells me at least he, and probably Cummins too, AGREE WITH ME.

Yeah, this team is built around our midfield, just like Barcelona operates through Xavi and Iniesta. Their wingers and forward are still the highest scoring players on their team.

I never said we could rely on our MF to be our primary scoring... Another example of you just trying to start conflict/negativity for the sake of it,

In fact my explicit mention of the OBW and Gerba transition spelt that out for everyone to see...

I'm done giving you rebuttle,
If your gunna be soo negative, go to the leafs boards or something...

Bottom line of what im saying:
Vitti + Barret aren't 'go to strikers',

if you wanna find something to bitch about in that line, then go for it... Maybe someone else can rebuttle you to keep you occupied

[sampace]

Vitti and Barrett, last time I checked are both 24 years old. Barrett did show some promise last year scoring goals when he came over. He also showed his "inexperience" and the knack of missing. However you slice it, he still scores goals once and awhile, while Vitti shows flashes but has not scored yet. Perhaps Vitti is playing out of position, but I agree that his salary does not = his output. He either has to produce to stay, or take a significant pay cut and stay. Barrett is fine for TFC, if Barrett started scoring 2 goals a game he'd be long gone. You need a Barrett type of player on the roster. I guy who can score goals, maybe not as often as you want him to, but a player who is worth keeping because you can only have so many top paid players on the roster.

[Shakes McQueen]

No, You said they were our strikers...
...they aren't,
Nobody has played in front of Dichio for ages now....
A 'Wing' is different than a 'striker'...
Don't flip flop on your wording, here's your quote:

Regardless of how you'd like to wax semantic with my words, the reality is that all forwards - even wingers (!!) - are expected to score goals, and provide assists. Barrett has provided a few of each, and Vitti has provided none. I will refer you to Barcelona again - are Messi and Henry not expected to score goals in a 4-3-3? Not only are they expected to, they are the highest scorers on the team with Eto'o.


They aren't regular starting strikers,
they (well Vitti as per last 2 games) are starting wings

Yes, based on your massive two game sample size, instead of focusing on the entire season.


A starting striker would be playing ahead of Dichio,
As of the last few games, Danny's been playing as the man up front, bringing down possession to play to our MF's (Amado) or swinging it out wide to our wings...

Again, this is completely irrelevant to my actual point. Stop shifting the goal posts, and trying to focus on little, irrelevant points. Whether they are wingers or not, Barrett and Vitti are expected to score goals - in a 4-3-3, the wing players are expected to be major coal contributors. The offense is not supposed to revolve around the three central midfielders.


...There's absolutely no need for you to start an argument for argument sake,

I didn't. As usual, you came in with your self-righteous gusto (I believe this time it was derisively asking me if I can read), and I responded. You also did your usual song and dance of telling other people they clearly don't watch the team play.


I never said we could rely on our MF to be our primary scoring... Another example of you just trying to start conflict/negativity for the sake of it,

You said the lack of goals coming from Barrett and Vitti wasn't a big deal, because this team was "built to attack" through our attacking midfield.

If Barrett and Vitti aren't expected to provide our primary scoring, and our midfield isn't either, what's left? Dichio to become TFC's first ever striker to get 50 goals in a season?

I'm not being "negative" - I'm pointing out how nonsensical some of your points are.


In fact my explicit mention of the OBW and Gerba transition spelt that out for everyone to see...

No, that just muddles your argument even more, because the entire reason a player like Gerba is coming in, is to hopefully do the job Barrett and Vitti are SUPPOSED TO BE DOING - the job you apparently think they aren't supposed to be doing.


Bottom line of what im saying:
Vitti + Barret aren't 'go to strikers',

Absolutely agree. The problem is that THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE HIRED TO BE.

- Scott

[TFC USA]

Come on why are we even talking about this?


Neither of them are remotely close to average.

Hero or not Barrett is still shit and every time he scores we say "maybe that will build his confidence". But it hasn't the previous two times. This is his last chance.

Vitti is a midfielder. But regardless he misses so many chances and tries ineffective fancy shit I can't stand him.

[ua-kozak_TFC]

the thing that i cannot seem to comprehend... |is that on this board it took the longest time for people to realize that playyers were no good... like Welsh who wouldn;t be able to dribble around most of our NONAs yet are so quick to pull the plug on vitti... not even half a season has passed and you already want him gone... That said i think the biggest issue is the money... if it's 200k or less i would happily let him stick around for an extra season....

[Shakes McQueen]

the thing that i cannot seem to comprehend... |is that on this board it took the longest time for people to realize that playyers were no good... like Welsh who wouldn;t be able to dribble around most of our NONAs yet are so quick to pull the plug on vitti... not even half a season has passed and you already want him gone... That said i think the biggest issue is the money... if it's 200k or less i would happily let him stick around for an extra season....

If he wasn't making $300K, I think many people would be inclined to have patience with him, and see if he improves later in the season.

But as one of the highest paid players on the team, you have to expect more than a few flashes here and there, and absolutely ZERO production in terms of goals.

Unless we have someone better on deck, waiting for us to free salary, I say give him the entire season to prove himself. Beyond that, maybe bring him back next season at a largely reduced salary.

- Scott

[poppamidnight]

Again, this is completely irrelevant to my actual point. Stop shifting the goal posts, and trying to focus on little, irrelevant points. Whether they are wingers or not, Barrett and Vitti are expected to score goals - in a 4-3-3, the wing players are expected to be major coal contributors. The offense is not supposed to revolve around the three central midfielders.


You said the lack of goals coming from Barrett and Vitti wasn't a big deal, because this team was "built to attack" through our attacking midfield.

If Barrett and Vitti aren't expected to provide our primary scoring, and our midfield isn't either, what's left? Dichio to become TFC's first ever striker to get 50 goals in a season?

No, that just muddles your argument even more, because the entire reason a player like Gerba is coming in, is to hopefully do the job Barrett and Vitti are SUPPOSED TO BE DOING - the job you apparently think they aren't supposed to be doing.


Absolutely agree. The problem is that THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE HIRED TO BE.

- Scott

Dude, you can go on about this as long as you want, your missing the point on my first post in regards to this,

What they are supposed to be doing is now irrelevant,
Since everyone can see these guys are never gunna do what they were brought in here to do,

Dance around it all you want,
Chad's had almost 2 half seasons as 'the go to striker', and he hasn't done what he's supposed to do (Nor did he do it in Chicago)
Vitti's had half a yr here (although he's only ever got 5 'go-to-striker' opportunities over chad's 13 or so this yr) and he didn't do what he's supposed to do

We've moved on, as a team, and as fans.

Chad hasn't started the past 2,
we've traded for Gerba's rights (soon to be signed),
OBW has been getting media attention in regards to practice,
and we've only STARTED a formation behind Dichio - no longer with the flick-on's....

If your still holding out hope that Vitti and Barrett still should be starting in front of Dichio, simply because that's what they were brought in to do, I honestly worry about your sanity

It's not that I don't think they shouldn't be doing it, it's that they didn't do what they were supposed to do, so the teams evidently moved on

how else would you explain Barrett's substituting as of late?
Or of Vitti starting as a RW + LW the past 2 games?

...it's called ADAPTATION my friend,

I don't know what your going on about. Cummins has clearly adapted the lineup the past couple games (after the blown chances by the two - and public outcry - hence, the obvious fact made to all that they didn't do what they were brought in to do), all you have to do is look at the formation prior to the past 2 games....

He hasn't started Chad, Nor started a formation with Vitti higher up the field than Dichio because "Chad and Vitti were brought in to score."
He's fielded a lineup that he see's better suited to the current situation of this team,

That situation being - Chad and Vitti NOT the tip of the offensive spear

[bhoybobby]

Vitti, Dichio, DeRo & Gueverra are the only intelligent skilled players we have. At this level you can't teach that, you either have by now or you don't.

We need all the intelligent skilled players we can get, letting Vitti go would be a grievous unforgivable error.

Better to let Barrett, Velez, or Harmse, or all go. They will never get better & are millstones around the teams neck

[romburgundy]

Sure he can't score but I hope he stays
He adds quite a bit of chances in mid. Takes runs with the balls that Dichio creates and can't chase after the 60th minute. Not to mention another Guavara translator.

[trane]

Vitti, Dichio, DeRo & Gueverra are the only intelligent skilled players we have. At this level you can't teach that, you either have by now or you don't.

We need all the intelligent skilled players we can get, letting Vitti go would be a grievous unforgivable error.

Better to let Barrett, Velez, or Harmse, or all go. They will never get better & are millstones around the teams neck

I agree with this sentiment.

[prizby]

man, I think if he scored one he would score a ton. Unfortunately he hasn't scored one.

he did score one, but the ref ruled that the flick on from Dichio (who stood his ground) was a foul (agianst Dallas??)

[maninb]

"When Vitti has the ball good things happen"???? WTF?

The guy has NO Goals, and NO assists...So tell us what good does he do? He's got some skills but unfortunately scoring and passing aren't amongst them...$300K for that is WAY WAY WAY too much...

[Yohan]

"When Vitti has the ball good things happen"???? WTF?

The guy has NO Goals, and NO assists...So tell us what good does he do? He's got some skills but unfortunately scoring and passing aren't amongst them...$300K for that is WAY WAY WAY too much...
clearly you missed what happened vs Shite Bulls few weeks ago

[Brooker]

Trade gUEVARA in heart beat...

are you insane?


Personally, I think subbing him for Barrett was a huge mistake. Vitti was doing just fine. Other then the deflection off the head, did Barrett really do anything?

Set up 2 goals and bagged one himself.

what game were you watching?

[maninb]

clearly you missed what happened vs Shite Bulls few weeks ago


Vitti has played 783 minutes...No goals...No assists...sure he's a good dribbbler and puts himself in good positions but he either loses it or shoots wide EVERY TIME....I'd like to keep him but only if he gets WAY LESS money...

[Nuvinho]

Since RR is gone, there is a fight between Vitti and Barrett to see who becomes the new whipping boy.

[Marc"2L"]

The problem with El Lobo is age.

He's 33. Maybe 1 more season. Maybe not.
Debate sanity all you want, it's very possible he won't be here come March.

[TFC07]

Since RR is gone, there is a fight between Vitti and Barrett to see who becomes the new whipping boy.

It should be an interesting fight since Vitti and Barrett play completely different style from each other. Barrett works hard, but lacks skill while Vitti has skills, but lacks confidence (I am assuming here) and has trouble adjusting to physical north american game.

Me personally, I hope Vitti stays and takes a paycut (hopefully his club let's him go for free). I think Vitti would make a good AM in MLS.

[Yohan]

Vitti has played 783 minutes...No goals...No assists...sure he's a good dribbbler and puts himself in good positions but he either loses it or shoots wide EVERY TIME....I'd like to keep him but only if he gets WAY LESS money...
you do realize Vitti was the direct and/or indirect cause of two goals in win over Shite Bulls

stats do not tell the whole story

[VPjr]

Dino hears no lies...

I hear LOTS of BS.

I think its pretty obvious that Cummins doesn't have a lot of confidence in Vitti, despite the fact he is one of the top 3 pure skill players on this squad.

As much as I like the guy and his style of play, he's not getting the job done. He and DeRo don't seem on the same page either, in my opinion. Their playing style doesn't really mesh well.

Guevara (and Dichio to an extent) is really the only player that knows how to play with Vitti. Vitti, like many Argies, is very good at taking players on, give and go plays, cutting between defenders, etc.... He thrives on playing in tight space. TFC doesn't have enough players who have the skill to play that style. Guevara can do it but Vitti is set up so far out wide that its pointless, in my opinion, to have him on the field if you aren't going to make the effort to put him in a position to succeed.

[Bloor West FC]

I have been told the same thing by Julius James. Oh and JJ is heading to Europe!! They have problems with the Old School Coaching Stlye that Cummins brings in. Someone on the team also said he doesn't know how to coach. Thats all I am saying.

[DreFuss]

Is Vitti having fitness issues? I swear he's never played a whole game?

[TFC07]

I have been told the same thing by Julius James. Oh and JJ is heading to Europe!! They have problems with the Old School Coaching Stlye that Cummins brings in. Someone on the team also said he doesn't know how to coach. Thats all I am saying.

Not surprised about that.

[rocker]

Someone on the team also said he doesn't know how to coach.

I don't take much stock in such comments. why? cuz it's such a generalized comment that it's meaningless. To say someone "doesn't know how to coach" means he's good at nothing at all. From my observations and from the interviews with Cummins, clearly that is not true. All coaches have some negatives though, but that's not "he doesn't know how to coach."

There's also some other coaches on staff, namely Dasovic. Do they all not know to coach?? hahah

[Bloor West FC]

I don't take much stock in such comments. why? cuz it's such a generalized comment that it's meaningless. To say someone "doesn't know how to coach" means he's good at nothing at all. From my observations and from the interviews with Cummins, clearly that is not true. All coaches have some negatives though, but that's not "he doesn't know how to coach."

There's also some other coaches on staff, namely Dasovic. Do they all not know to coach?? hahah


Just posting what I was told thats all. I think Cummins is doing an OK job, I mean his players came back to win the Championship!!

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Vitti just isn't a good fit for this team and turf.

IMO, he's a sand dancer and an expensive one at that. The skills he brings are available in the form of Amando and Dwayne…and they know how to finish.

Perhaps in a different set up, things go his way but he has had his share of chances and…well…

I really thought the Montreal game was the opportunity for him to step up. Once again nice moves and runs but with too few results…Cummins felt the same…subbed for Barrett who scores the winner and sets up the insurance.

Poor Pablo is sitting soaked on the bench thinking…

[SteeltownBhoy]

man, I think if he scored one he would score a ton. Unfortunately he hasn't scored one.

I would really like to believe that, but goal scoring during his pro career just does not bear it out.

[poppamidnight]

I don't take much stock in such comments. why? cuz it's such a generalized comment that it's meaningless. To say someone "doesn't know how to coach" means he's good at nothing at all. From my observations and from the interviews with Cummins, clearly that is not true. All coaches have some negatives though, but that's not "he doesn't know how to coach."

There's also some other coaches on staff, namely Dasovic. Do they all not know to coach?? hahah


Well, any old idiot that has a TV on watching the past couple games could see a couple moves are questionable:

1 - Starting Serioux so frequently when he's battling an injury instead of resting him.... Really? What good is 20 mins of a gimped-up serioux It's a substitution taken out of your 3 before the game even started

2 - Starting Vitti on the Left Wing? Whenever he's played the Right Wing he's been the top-playmaker (along w/ Amado) on the pitch for us


...That's just two obvious ones, there's likely plenty more...

Not saying he's not a good coach,
But when two blatantly obvious errors are made, I gotta believe there's something behind that belief that Cummins isn't all with it tactically.

2 games ago at half time:
"hey Look, Vitti's been the best player on the pitch for us, so what we're gunna do is switch him over to the left wing instead of the right this next half"
....next half = Vitti isn't even noticable...

So what does he do next game (Montreal)?
"Hey Vitti, you were so unnoticable in that last Half when we put you on the left wing, that we're going to start you this game there okay?"

...FFS, It's like You just ran headfirst into a brick wall, only to get up and run yourself right into it again...

[Jamaicanadian]

I have been told the same thing by Julius James. Oh and JJ is heading to Europe!! They have problems with the Old School Coaching Stlye that Cummins brings in. Someone on the team also said he doesn't know how to coach. Thats all I am saying.

Come on guys, the guy can coach............:)

http://www-origin.insidesoccer.com/page/2a5215d1-1ce9-49fe-8ed5-db759a34bd7d/crossing-and-finishing-3.html

[TFC07]

Come on guys, the guy can coach............:)

http://www-origin.insidesoccer.com/page/2a5215d1-1ce9-49fe-8ed5-db759a34bd7d/crossing-and-finishing-3.html

Good find. lol

[juve76]

Looks people, everyone looks at Vitti and say that he's not "producing". TFC is just not a for his style of play, he creates chances, thats just as important to this team. The problem is that when de does create chances, often, TFC just don't have the supporting cast to follow up.
Vitti's style is not made for Cummin's kick and chase style, period.

[Beach_Red]

Vitti's style is not made for Cummin's kick and chase style, period.


Do you think that style is changing, though? Is TFC upgrading to a point where Vitti will fit in better?

[juve76]

I do see hints that the style is indeed transitioning from the kick and run, to a more structured passing and transition game, but it will take some time...i think the difference is the quality of players that can actuaslly play like that

[woolly]

For my money, Vitt is not a finsiher. BUT, with the fact that Dichio, Geuvera and possibly Robbo and Brennen retiring, we need to have a mixture of young guns and older, craftier players. While I don't think I would trade Amado to keep Vitti if I had to choose one of them for a long term contract at the same price, I'd probably chosse Vitti.

[jloome]

Do you think that style is changing, though? Is TFC upgrading to a point where Vitti will fit in better?

We don't play kick and chase most of the time. Our style is designed around short passing and support play, not kick and chase. We headman it a lot because we've had, poor delivery from the backline, skipping past the midfielders. That's bad playing, not "Cummins's style."

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

I have been told the same thing by Julius James. Oh and JJ is heading to Europe!! They have problems with the Old School Coaching Stlye that Cummins brings in. Someone on the team also said he doesn't know how to coach. Thats all I am saying.

He's English and therefore brings a certain philosophy to the team and a certain way of playing, and you can tell when Vitti's out there that he doesn't fit into the system because he plays an entirely different kind of game. In Guevara's role he'd do very well IMO, but Guevara plays there, so yeah...

[Yohan]

I think Vitti is slowly becoming better integrated to TFC system, if last game vs NY and even Mtl suggests.

I didn't think he played really terribly vs Mtl.

It's just his poor finishing gets him a lot of flak, so it makes him look worse than he really is IMO.

[trane]

He's English and therefore brings a certain philosophy to the team and a certain way of playing, and you can tell when Vitti's out there that he doesn't fit into the system because he plays an entirely different kind of game. In Guevara's role he'd do very well IMO, but Guevara plays there, so yeah...

That is were I think we should try to develop him for, Guevara is also getting up there.

[Darlofletch]

I think Vitti is slowly becoming better integrated to TFC system, if last game vs NY and even Mtl suggests.

I didn't think he played really terribly vs Mtl.

It's just his poor finishing gets him a lot of flak, so it makes him look worse than he really is IMO.

I'd go as far back as the houston game where he came on at half time, that game and then the ones against Vancouver, LA, and NY I thought he was one of our better players. Not against Montreal though, he didn't impress me there, either because he's not good on the left wing, or he was just trying to do too much, dribble round too many players and kept losing the ball.

As you said, he's slowly becoming better, I still don't think he's worth his current hit against the salary cap unless he keeps improving or starts to score, but i wouldn't want him to leave without a replacement ready to go.

[poppamidnight]

I'd go as far back as the houston game where he came on at half time, that game and then the ones against Vancouver, LA, and NY I thought he was one of our better players. Not against Montreal though, he didn't impress me there, either because he's not good on the left wing, or he was just trying to do too much, dribble round too many players and kept losing the ball.

As you said, he's slowly becoming better, I still don't think he's worth his current hit against the salary cap unless he keeps improving or starts to score, but i wouldn't want him to leave without a replacement ready to go.

See my post above...

He's one of our best playmakers whenever he plays the right side,

he's hardly noticable whenever he plays the left side...


....MTL = Our braniac coach put him left side,
...NY = started 1st half Right side - was our best player - moved at half to left side, and wasn't noticable from then on....

You put him on the left, your asking for trouble,
you put him on the right, we're gunna be clicking...

I just am not comprehending some of Cummins decisions... it's soo bloody obvious what needs to be done, but our coach does the opposite.

Knowing CC, he'll opt to start Vitti on the left side again.....