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Steve
06-15-2009, 09:14 AM
Good Morning,

After missing yet another penalty last weekend (yes, we got the goal eventually, but that doesn't really change much) I started wondering what the penalty kick statistics for TFC and MLS really were, to see if we were as horrible as I assumed we were. So, I decided to gather the data and actually find out for myself. If you have no interest in stats or data that have little effect on your life, read no further; however, if you are as interested in the numbers as I was, I've managed to collect the data (from MLSNET on penalties taken from the start of 2007 to date).

The first table shows how many penalties were awarded to each team, how many they scored, and the percentage associated. Notice the only team below us on penalty kicks awarded that was NOT an expansion team in the last couple years is Chivas. Also notice the only team who has converted a lower percentage of kicks is Seattle, and since they've only had one, that's essentially an anomaly. Other that that, we are at 16.67%, the closest team to us is a 57.14% (Houston, I was quite surprised at that) and every other team is hovering around 80% or higher.

The second table indicates PK called against teams (unfortunately the data isn't there to see who commited the penalty inducing foul, I would be interested) and the percentage SAVED (it is a different data point than the graph above, so be careful). Notice we have had 5 more penalties called on us than the closest other team (and three times more penalties against us as for us). We are also second worst at saving those penalties (behind Dallas). You'd think we'd be better, given all of our practice.

Anyway, if you're interested in this sort of thing, enjoy:



http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b92/Gilthanass/PKStats.jpg

rocker
06-15-2009, 09:39 AM
interesting.
you know that's a pretty significant difference between some teams and TFC. Look at DC.
Between DC and TFC, DC has a +13 advantage over three seasons. So thanks to the refs' judgment they get 4.3 more goals a season than TFC. admittedly, season 3 is only half done, so that number could be higher by October.

On the other side, again comparing to DC, DC has a +14 difference in penalties against, for 4.6 less goals a season than TFC, based on the refs' judgement.

That's a lot of goals, on the plus or negative side, per season, between two clubs.
Last season DC and TFC had a goal difference between them of only 1....

menefreghista
06-15-2009, 09:50 AM
I'm pretty sure we're 1 for 7 at PK's. With the only goal being scored way back in 2007 by Colin Samuel away to RSL.

I'll have to confirm that when I have more time.

Lucky Strike
06-15-2009, 09:54 AM
I'm pretty sure we're 1 for 7 at PK's. With the only goal being scored way back in 2007 by Colin Samuel away to RSL.

I'll have to confirm that when I have more time.

No 1 for 6 is correct. I was myself thinking about this. It's not just a feeling that we often get screwed on penalties either.

Going back to penalty conversion rates, if you're interested I think either Joe Ross or Kristian Jack over at the Footy Blog are going to e-mail The Guardian's column on these things to find out what other teams are really lousy at penalties.

tfcleeds
06-15-2009, 10:00 AM
Them's some ugly stats there....

Time for the boys to go to remedial Penalty Kicking (and Saving) class...

rocker
06-15-2009, 10:06 AM
I can understand why we're giving so many up. I mean, we've had some pretty shit defenders over the years.
But why the awful conversion rate? Chivas has a 100% conversion on a similar # of penalty kicks.

and do some teams "attract" penalty calls through a certain style?
DC and LA are pretty high on penalty opportunities... I'm wondering if Emilio and Donovan's style has something to do with prompting those chances.

In contrast, a good team like Houston is very low in penalties given and received. What is it about their style that keeps them out of either category???
From watching this league over the years I've thought that maybe in the parity environment you want to eliminate the ref's subjectivity as much as possible.... maybe there's something about a style of play you employ, or a type of player you employ at the back, or a type of player you have at forward, that limits or encourages certain kinds of eventualities and keeps the ref out of it or encourages him to make a decision. It's not simply "have a good defense" because I don't see a direct correlation between overall goals against and penalties against in the above chart.

thoughts?

Cal
06-15-2009, 10:50 AM
Them's some ugly stats there....

Time for the boys to go to remedial Penalty Kicking (and Saving) class...

i hope you mean preventing.

Bobo
06-15-2009, 11:14 AM
Yes the refs screw around with us, but 1 for 6 we can't pin on anyone else. That's pretty sad...

tfcleeds
06-15-2009, 11:19 AM
i hope you mean preventing.

True enough...

Still, it beggars belief that we have only scored on one of our PK chances...ever. You would expect more of players at this level.

Kickit09
06-15-2009, 11:19 AM
http://kevinrobinson.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/epic_fail.jpg




That is embarrassing. Especially the 16% PKs converted, 41% below the next worse team (cant count Seattle since they only have 1 try) and 64% less than the average of 80%, just pathetic... I know most coaches do not like practicing penalty kicks, but that is something this team should spend A LOT of time on every single day. God forbid we make the playoffs or CCL and it goes to penalty kicks. :nonod:

bee dubya
06-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Thanks for putting those stats together Steve!

I can't believe we're so bad at penalties. Even this year we've had DeRo and Guevara both miss from the spot and they're arguably our top 2 offensive players. Pathetic!

ExiledRed
06-15-2009, 12:18 PM
People should get over the fact that Guevara didn't bury the penalty. It happens.

I mean seriously Guevara has scored more than anybody this season, and Cronin got a live play goal from his rebound.

Players miss penalties, it's a fact of football. I do agree that we've been shafted out of a lot of PK's though.

Cambridge_Red
06-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Bring back the PIE MAN LOL.

Easy solution don't let Guevara take penalties, he's hopeless at them.

Carts
06-15-2009, 12:23 PM
With the pace and placement Dichio can put the ball in the corner of the goal, I'm shocked he hasn't been the go to guy from the spot...

On Saturday, from out side the 18 yard box he calmly place the ball with solid pace just inside the post - imagine what he could do from the spot...

Carts...

joel
06-15-2009, 12:23 PM
Well, Sutton was terrible at penalties, he is way too slow. It was painful to watch.

kodiakTFC
06-15-2009, 12:44 PM
I brought this trivia up on the GO train and no one had a clue that is was Samuel.

TFC USA
06-15-2009, 12:44 PM
All of TFC's other penalties have been missed the following way:


Samuel (saved against Columbus)

Guevara (saved against San Jose)

Ricketts (saved against Chicago)

DeRo (Baggio'd against Kansas City)

Guevara (saved against New York)


Two of those missed penalties were goals off of rebounds. Ricketts scored on his missed penalty and Cronin scored on Guevara's miss.


Let's not forget the Carlsberg Cup....Cuntingham and Brennan both fucking up their spot kicks.

TFC USA
06-15-2009, 06:00 PM
To add on to my previous post, all of the saved penalties were shot low. This is alarming the way no one shoots high other than DeRo...and his was high of the fucking goal.

Yohan
06-15-2009, 06:18 PM
To add on to my previous post, all of the saved penalties were shot low. This is alarming the way no one shoots high other than DeRo...and his was high of the fucking goal.
no one really shoots high for penalties any more though

Candu_88
06-16-2009, 10:09 AM
A crisp (not blasted) shot to the top corner is pretty much unstoppable. I coach several 10 year old youth players that can do this quite consistently. It has always shocked me that professional players can not seem to do this. Field turf has many downsides but kicking a stationary ball is very easy and consistent. No excuses for the home misses.

Guevara's penalty was horrid, close to the keeper and shoulder height which is by far the easiest level for a keeper to save.

These embarrassing penalty stats are exposing some technical coaching flaws. Defenders have better conversion rates than strikers and attacking midfielders. I'm guessing that they feel less pressure. Best way to deal with pressure? Practice a lot so the movements get ingrained in the brain. Finish every practice with a shoot out contest and add pressure by embarrassing the losers.

ilikemusic
06-16-2009, 10:26 AM
People should get over the fact that Guevara didn't bury the penalty. It happens.

I mean seriously Guevara has scored more than anybody this season, and Cronin got a live play goal from his rebound.

Players miss penalties, it's a fact of football. I do agree that we've been shafted out of a lot of PK's though.

I wouldnt harp on Guevara (maybe some people are, I cant speak for them), but this team's record from the penalty spot is just insanely bad.

Its the kind of statistical anomaly that simply defies logic.

Chevy
06-16-2009, 10:35 AM
All of TFC's other penalties have been missed the following way:


Samuel (saved against Columbus)

Guevara (saved against San Jose)

Ricketts (saved against Chicago)

DeRo (Baggio'd against Kansas City)

Guevara (saved against New York)


Two of those missed penalties were goals off of rebounds. Ricketts scored on his missed penalty and Cronin scored on Guevara's miss.


Let's not forget the Carlsberg Cup....Cuntingham and Brennan both fucking up their spot kicks.


Funny, yet very painful.:)

pepher
06-16-2009, 10:40 AM
over the course of a season, these stats could easily be the difference between the team that makes the playoffs and the team that doesn't. Shocking numbers for TFC on both sides.

James17930
06-17-2009, 12:19 PM
Fuck me.

TFC OZZ
06-17-2009, 12:43 PM
A crisp (not blasted) shot to the top corner is pretty much unstoppable. I coach several 10 year old youth players that can do this quite consistently. It has always shocked me that professional players can not seem to do this. Field turf has many downsides but kicking a stationary ball is very easy and consistent. No excuses for the home misses.

Guevara's penalty was horrid, close to the keeper and shoulder height which is by far the easiest level for a keeper to save.

These embarrassing penalty stats are exposing some technical coaching flaws. Defenders have better conversion rates than strikers and attacking midfielders. I'm guessing that they feel less pressure. Best way to deal with pressure? Practice a lot so the movements get ingrained in the brain. Finish every practice with a shoot out contest and add pressure by embarrassing the losers.

Keep in mind the fact that professional soccer players are under a lot more pressure, but stats like these are unacceptable.

The views that I, and the camp that I run hold, are that penalties should be hit to roughly 1 foot inside either post, and 1 foot up with the sidefoot. It's a lot easier to get power on a low ball, more accurate, and it's much harder for the goalie to extend down low than it is to extend up, despite the difference in distance travelled. Also, there's a way larger likelihood of a rebound occurring on a low shot, than on a high one.

Pachuco
06-17-2009, 01:17 PM
Watch Donovan's penalty from the US vs Italy game and you'll know what a perfect penalty is. That shot goes in 95% of the time.

prizby
06-17-2009, 01:23 PM
its funny cuz like i don't see how you can miss, but i was playing on sunday and a guy on my team, just as he was gonna kick got distracted by a movement on the other team and he kicked it right at the goalie

Candu_88
06-17-2009, 03:10 PM
Keep in mind the fact that professional soccer players are under a lot more pressure, but stats like these are unacceptable.

The views that I, and the camp that I run hold, are that penalties should be hit to roughly 1 foot inside either post, and 1 foot up with the sidefoot. It's a lot easier to get power on a low ball, more accurate, and it's much harder for the goalie to extend down low than it is to extend up, despite the difference in distance travelled. Also, there's a way larger likelihood of a rebound occurring on a low shot, than on a high one.

I agree that the low shot is easier to execute and has a good chance of scoring and I too coach that as the best option. But with a professional keeper a 1 foot high, 1 foot from the post shot is savable if he guesses right or reads the kick. Gravity is helping the keeper get to the ball on the low shot and pretty much blocking him from getting to a high corner shot. Part of the reason team should practice penalties frequently is it teaches the keepers to read the shooter's approach and anticipate the direction. It then teaches the shooters to disguise their shots and how to get comfortable shooting to all four corners.

Check out this link TFC OZZ http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/skills/4188836.stm