Onward! - Trader Mo, year three

[Ben Knight]

Why the man drives us crazy -- with hope and fear -- simultaneously.

http://onwardsoccer.com/2009/06/11/trader-mo-year-three/ (http://bit.ly/heoot)

[Yohan]

i swear Mo has blackmail stuff on all the GMs in MLS

then again, MLS is a really funny league in terms of star players being dealt for so cheap

[Waggy]

The benefits of a hard cap thats so low. Either that or Mo is the slow kid everyone in the league is taking advantage of haha

[drewski]

Houdini died of a ruptured appendix that wasn't related to any of his tricks

[Ben Knight]

Yes it was. His appendix ruptured when he was demonstrating muscle control, and asked a volunteer from the audience to punch him in the gut. He was struck before he was ready, and died shortly thereafter.

[Beach_Red]

^ It wasn't actually part of the show, it was backstage in Montreal and he died a couple days later. But it was a punch in the gut before he was ready.

[scooter]

picture this
mo---mls boys i have to make some moves or our fans are going to freak out so please quit with all the usual bullshite and approve these moves now
mls--oh ok mo get r done
mo--great onward

[drewski]

^ It wasn't actually part of the show, it was backstage in Montreal and he died a couple days later. But it was a punch in the gut before he was ready.

a punch to a gut when he already had an acute appendicitis that he refused treatment for.

he was gonna die without a punch anyway

[Ben Knight]

He was showing off, regardless. I stand by my simile!

:-)

[Chevy]

Great read!

[Beach_Red]

^ I'd never heard that he already had appendicitis. It's an interesting story. Here's what Snopes has to say, if you're interested:

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/houdini.asp

They say he might have accepted treatment but he felt the stomach pain was a result of the punches (quite a few apparently) and not appendicitis. By the time doctors and his wife (a nurse) convinced him a couple days later in Detroit it was too late.

But whether or not he would have accepted the treatment and has his appendix removed is really just speculation.

[rocker]

after reading this:
I can easily imagine a Danny Dichio scramble job, an outside strike from DeRosario and two monster slot bombs from Gerba doing the trick, while Serioux and Garcia mop up at the back.

I got turned on...
Ben knows how to move me.

[Ben Knight]

... Or how to break your heart!!

(Toronto's in SO MUCH TROUBLE in that game!)

[TFC OZZ]

I am still so, so not sold on this trade. Garcia has a big salary at 200,000, and I was under the impression that he just signed a new contract with the league. All reports out of San Jose have him playing like utter shite recently, and I'm not just going to jump on the "well he'll have a rebirth in TORONTO because he played with Mo" wagon. If he stinks it up here in Toronto, we just got burned and are stuck with a 200,000 burden, just into their new contract, just like Barrett. Great we got Gerba's rights, personally, that's all I wanted for the third rounder. I feel like for 200,000 we could have gotten an international player.

Let's see what the Winsper factor can do for this guy, but as far as I'm concerned, we got burned in this trade.

[The Kingpin]

"If the two players contribute at all (Gerba has yet to sign as I’m writing this), they will certainly improve the team, and Mo will have wiggled out of trouble yet again."

There are so many things wrong with this statement I'm not sure where to start... I'll think about it - but this prognostication seems like a fans hope vs. objective assessment. Just some initial thoughts.

[TorontoBlades]

"If the two players contribute at all (Gerba has yet to sign as I’m writing this), they will certainly improve the team, and Mo will have wiggled out of trouble yet again."

There are so many things wrong with this statement I'm not sure where to start... I'll think about it - but this prognostication seems like a fans hope vs. objective assessment. Just some initial thoughts.

Correct. And this is where I'm disappointed in Ben over the past few months, as he's transformed from a footy writer into merely a well versed poster. In which case the only thing he has on me is spelling and grammer.

[rocker]

I feel like for 200,000 we could have gotten an international player.


I dunno about that. I've been watching this league since 2007, and for 200K you aren't guaranteed a great international player. For example, DC had two Argentine defenders around 200K last season, and they didn't do that well.
NY has gone after some international defenders in the 150-200K range and they didn't do well either.
I know nothing about Garcia, but one thing he's got going for him is that he's played in this league. Internationals have been pretty hit and miss in MLS, in my opinion. It's a bit more of a risk signing an average international (the kind who will play for 200K) rather than signing a guy with a 10 year history in MLS costing 200K.

From examining the salary lists, teams often can get solid Americans for 200K or less. But bringing in internationals of the same quality tends to cost more. (I also don't believe John Kennedy Hurtado's salary will be as low as it is next year... see, for example, the way that Schellotto's contract was designed to escalate in each year).

[Yohan]

I dunno about that. I've been watching this league since 2007, and for 200K you aren't guaranteed a great international player. For example, DC had two Argentine defenders around 200K last season, and they didn't do that well.
NY has gone after some international defenders in the 150-200K range and they didn't do well either.
I know nothing about Garcia, but one thing he's got going for him is that he's played in this league. Internationals have pretty hit and miss in MLS, in my opinion. It's a bit more of a risk signing an average international (the kind who will play for 200K) rather than signing a guy with a 10 year history in MLS.

From examining the salary lists, teams often can get solid Americans for 200 or less. But bringing in internationals of the same quality tends to cost more. (I also don't believe John Kennedy Hurtado's salary will be as low as it is next year... see, for example, the way that Schellotto's contract was designed to escalate in each year).
For every good international players like Jhon Hurtadol, Danny Dichio or Javier Morales, you get shite like Raphael Wicky (Former HSV in Bundesliga midfielder, now retired), David Ferreira (FC Dallas attacking midfielder on loan from Brazil), Carlos Marinelli (former Middlesborough midfielder used to play for Kansas City)

It remains to be seen whether players like Celades can adjust to MLS as well

Note that most MLS teams do not rely on a lot of internationals as key players in their first team squad.
This year, teams that do have a lot of internationals in first team (Toronto, NY, Dallas) aren't doing so well, two middling (Seattle, Colorado) and two doing well (DC, Chicago)

So it's a bit of crap shoot on internationals

[TFC OZZ]

I dunno about that. I've been watching this league since 2007, and for 200K you aren't guaranteed a great international player. For example, DC had two Argentine defenders around 200K last season, and they didn't do that well.
NY has gone after some international defenders in the 150-200K range and they didn't do well either.
I know nothing about Garcia, but one thing he's got going for him is that he's played in this league. Internationals have been pretty hit and miss in MLS, in my opinion. It's a bit more of a risk signing an average international (the kind who will play for 200K) rather than signing a guy with a 10 year history in MLS costing 200K.

From examining the salary lists, teams often can get solid Americans for 200K or less. But bringing in internationals of the same quality tends to cost more. (I also don't believe John Kennedy Hurtado's salary will be as low as it is next year... see, for example, the way that Schellotto's contract was designed to escalate in each year).

Having watched the league for the exact same period of time, I completely agree. All I'm saying is that I'm putting my money on Garcia playing poorly when he suits up for TFC, obviously I HOPE he shoves that down my throat and performs greatly. He just signed a new contract, so that means unless we can offload him, he'll be a 200,000 benchwarmer. When I said international defender, I misspoke, what I actually meant was defenders inside and outside of the league.

I also neglected to mention the fact that if San Jose is paying part of his salary, then that sort of hurts my argument.

INSIDE the league, we could try and sign
JIMMY CONRAD - 200,000 salary, obviously we'd have to shell out more, but I've been saying his name for a long time
ANDREW HAINAULT - 100,000
DEJAN JAKOVIC - 100,000

Outside the league it's obviously a gamble, but there are a ton of players as well as Canadian and American defenders that we could go after.

obviously these are just a couple of names, but any of whom I'd prefer to Garcia, based on his recent form

[maninb]

I am still so, so not sold on this trade. Garcia has a big salary at 200,000, and I was under the impression that he just signed a new contract with the league. All reports out of San Jose have him playing like utter shite recently, and I'm not just going to jump on the "well he'll have a rebirth in TORONTO because he played with Mo" wagon. If he stinks it up here in Toronto, we just got burned and are stuck with a 200,000 burden, just into their new contract, just like Barrett. Great we got Gerba's rights, personally, that's all I wanted for the third rounder. I feel like for 200,000 we could have gotten an international player.

Let's see what the Winsper factor can do for this guy, but as far as I'm concerned, we got burned in this trade.

We got burned???? LMAO!!!! We gave up a 3rd ROUNDER!!! Name ONE 3rd round draft choice that made it big in MLS?....Come on we're waiting......

[TFC OZZ]

We got burned???? LMAO!!!! We gave up a 3rd ROUNDER!!! Name ONE 3rd round draft choice that made it big in MLS?....Come on we're waiting......

We POTENTIALLY got burned, because if Garcia is shit, which he was in San Jose, then we have a 200,000 garbage centre-defender eating up our salary. Do you really think that San Jose was going to give up a 10 year MLS veteran and the rights to a Canadian international striker, for just a third round pick? Clearly they were trying to unload his salary, and lack of talent (at least a lack of talen on the field for them). And by the way, there are plenty of players taken 3rd round plus that have done well in MLS, although obviously they are much harder to come by than early picks. Like I mentioned, if you had read my previous posts, the third rounder is irrelevant, it's Garcias salary that's the concern. So let me ask you a question... If Garcia plays horribly, which other MLS team is going to want a 200,000 central defender who's garbage, just into a new league contract?............. Come on I'm waiting..........

[The Kingpin]

We got burned???? LMAO!!!! We gave up a 3rd ROUNDER!!! Name ONE 3rd round draft choice that made it big in MLS?....Come on we're waiting......

Edson Buddle
Alejandro Moreno
Chris Rolfe...

And since Mo is a superior drafter...

Dude - it's a money move...

[Yohan]

We POTENTIALLY got burned, because if Garcia is shit, which he was in San Jose, then we have a 200,000 garbage centre-defender eating up our salary. Do you really think that San Jose was going to give up a 10 year MLS veteran and the rights to a Canadian international striker, for just a third round pick? Clearly they were trying to unload his salary, and lack of talent (at least a lack of talen on the field for them). And by the way, there are plenty of players taken 3rd round plus that have done well in MLS, although obviously they are much harder to come by than early picks. Like I mentioned, if you had read my previous posts, the third rounder is irrelevant, it's Garcias salary that's the concern. So let me ask you a question... If Garcia plays horribly, which other MLS team is going to want a 200,000 central defender who's garbage, just into a new league contract?............. Come on I'm waiting..........
just how many games with Nick Garcia have you watched, to speak with such authority?

[rocker]

there are plenty of players taken 3rd round plus that have done well in MLS, although obviously they are much harder to come by than early picks.

define "plenty"....

very few third round picks ever become starters in MLS. I took a quick glance at all the Superdrafts from 2003 to 2009, and of the 86 players drafted, only 5 have become regulars. That's about 6%.

Chris Rolfe
Gonzalo Segares
Omar Cummings
Zach Wells
Logan Pause

And since another team is arriving next year, that means two extra players who would have gone in Round 3 before will be going earlier.

Really, the third round is a wasteland... The vast majority of players drafted in the third round are 1) out of soccer altogether or 2) in the USL or 3) benchwarmers in MLS.

[Beach_Red]

^ Speaking of the draft, whatever happened to that guy who was drafted last in last year's and gave the long Matthew McConnaghey speech until he got interrupted by a phone call?

[rocker]

^ Speaking of the draft, whatever happened to that guy who was drafted last in last year's and gave the long Matthew McConnaghey speech until he got interrupted by a phone call?

Richard Jata....

got released by Chicago... poor guy.. i loved his passion and determination.
not sure if he's linked up with a USL team or whatever yet.