PDA

View Full Version : What About the Players?



Section 117
06-10-2009, 06:23 PM
Hey guys

I have been on the board following the non stop bashing of MLSE and the FO, but I have a question how have the players gotten away with the lack of heart that they displayed against Vancouver and overall lack of play against LA.

We beat on Velez, Barrett and Vitti what about everyone else? I can't count maybe 3 players that can be spared but they are just as much to blame for the mess we are in? Above all I think are biggest problem is the lack of heart we display game in and game out.

Just my 2 cents

Super
06-10-2009, 06:35 PM
The only thing we, the 12th man, haven't done in recent time is properly support the team. But then that's just my opinion. I left the stadium last Saturday with no voice left to give, which is more than I can say for most other people. So yeah, the players as a group have failed us recently - just like we collectively have failed as supporters.

jloome
06-10-2009, 06:41 PM
I don't think a lack of heart is usually our biggest issue, although it sometimes has caused us to start slow; we've ended out outshooting and out-possessing most of our opponents.

That said, those slow game starts have to end. ALthough that probably has more to do with a lack of common freakin' sense than a lack of desire.

As for your give-and-take, tit-for-tat theory super, you're forgetting the part of this where it's a business, and the fans are the customers. MLSE has a goldmine because of those fans; it'll take a lot of (so far largely nonexistent) goodwill on behalf of mLSE to drift that imbalance back to the centre.

Beach_Red
06-10-2009, 06:41 PM
The main complaint against the management of the team is that they signed the wrong players - so yeah, everyone here is critical of the players and hoping to get new management that will bring in new players.

Shakes McQueen
06-10-2009, 06:43 PM
I generally don't like talking about intangible qualities - especially overused terms like "heart" - but I do agree with you generally. When this team gets down, or even when their initial gameplan just isn't delivering instant results, they tend to start looking predictable and uninterested really quickly. Rather than adjust, and get creative, they just tend to keep banging their heads against the wall over and over.

I place part of the blame for this on Jim Brennan. I like the guy, both professionally and personally, but I've always had... questions... about his ability to captain a team effectively. Especially a team with players who are prone to quickly getting down on themselves. I think a lot of people are just sold on this romanticized notion of "first TFC player, first Canadian, first captain", without looking seriously at his assets as a captain.

I also think MLSE (or "ML$E" as they are called by some of the idiots among us) are too easy of a scapegoat. Their continuing lack of communication regarding what is going on with our playing surface, their inability to bring in a quality designated player, and their occasional fleecing of the fans over things like the Real Madrid friendly, all piss me off. And those are just a few items.

However, when the whistle goes, it's on the players. And while sometimes this group play wonderfully together, sometimes they just straight up don't show up. And I don't even think you can hang the problem on strategy - sometimes we can't even do simple things like COMPLETE PASSES.

When we blame guys like Mo or Anselmi for our losses, what we are essentially doing is saying to our players "we know you tried your best, but you just don't have the talent necessary to get the job done". You know what? Fuck that. Sometimes they don't fucking try their hardest. Sometimes they don't show up to games. Sometimes they don't show the determination necessary to get results in winnable matches.

This team was considered a "paper tiger" by guys like Ives before the season started, meaning most of our players had a previous reputation for delivering better performances on the pitch. I vote for demanding more from the guys in the dressing room.

There are valid criticisms for all of the front office personnel, including MLSE, but that doesn't change the fact that THIS team, with THESE players, should be BETTER than this.

- Scott

Hooligan69
06-10-2009, 06:45 PM
According to some, our only problem is a lack of a grass pitch. Give us a grass pitch and everything will be sunshine and lollipops.

Super
06-10-2009, 06:47 PM
As for your give-and-take, tit-for-tat theory super, you're forgetting the part of this where it's a business, and the fans are the customers. MLSE has a goldmine because of those fans; it'll take a lot of (so far largely nonexistent) goodwill on behalf of mLSE to drift that imbalance back to the centre.

Every football team in the world is run as a business. I don't quite understand why we as a supporters protest MLSE by not cheering on the team during the 90 minute game. Last game had terrible atmosphere, and lots of people in 111-113 decided against singing. Part of why we lost I think. We failed the team.

Hooligan69
06-10-2009, 06:49 PM
Every football team in the world is run as a business. I don't quite understand why we as a supporters protest MLSE by not cheering on the team during the 90 minute game. Last game had terrible atmosphere, and lots of people in 111-113 decided against singing. Part of why we lost I think. We failed the team.

I guess supporters are to blame for every home loss this season. Anytime our boys get raped on the pitch, we can blame ourselves. Makes sense to me.

Shakes McQueen
06-10-2009, 06:51 PM
The main complaint against the management of the team is that they signed the wrong players - so yeah, everyone here is critical of the players and hoping to get new management that will bring in new players.

Virtually every player we've brought in since last season ended, have been some of our best - Frei, DeRo, Cronin, Serioux.

Vitti hasn't delivered much yet, but most people here agreed that he was worth the risk, for the potential huge upside of having a former Argentinian youth international hit his stride.

I think you can blame management for not upgrading our second starting CB (until now, if the new guy works out), and for signing Barrett to a lengthy new deal before sustained results warranted it.

I remain hopeful that Gerba (and maybe O'Brien White) will solve our goal scoring problem, if and when he signs. And if he does, than Mo deserves some measure of credit for recognizing that a problem had gone on too long, and then reacting to it.

If we continue on this current trajectory, then perhaps Mo needs to go.

- Scott

Super
06-10-2009, 06:51 PM
According to some, our only problem is a lack of a grass pitch. Give us a grass pitch and everything will be sunshine and lollipops.

It's the only thing MLSE can give us here and now that would absolutely change things for the better. The DP is not likely to come before grass is in place anyway, so we have to start somewhere. We can protest the players, but that will certainly not help them play any better - that much is a guarantee. At the end of the day we have to be careful we don't shoot ourselves in the foot.

Also, we're starting to look like crybabies. We complain, whine and protest everything under the sun. The one thing we've forgotten how to do properly is to support the team - and last time I checked this board is for supporters.

WHITEY
06-10-2009, 06:53 PM
According to some, our only problem is a lack of a grass pitch. Give us a grass pitch and everything will be sunshine and lollipops.

They played on grass a pitch in Vancouver and couldn't win to clinch the Nutralite and prior to that game they played on grass in Houston and looked disasterous. A grass pitch is must, don't get me wrong, but I am hard pressed to believe that a grass pitch will miracously turn the goal scoring woes with this team right around 180 degrees.

Super
06-10-2009, 06:53 PM
I guess supporters are to blame for every home loss this season. Anytime our boys get raped on the pitch, we can blame ourselves. Makes sense to me.

I was talking about the last game - not the whole season. We didn't support the team properly, and that's a fact. Unless of course you believe that great support makes no difference in terms of player performances ... and if that's the case I wonder why we even bother.

Shakes McQueen
06-10-2009, 06:54 PM
I guess supporters are to blame for every home loss this season. Anytime our boys get raped on the pitch, we can blame ourselves. Makes sense to me.

While I applaud the way you erected and then triumphantly smote your strawman, I don't think that was really the point Super was trying to make - agree with it or not.

- Scott

Section 117
06-10-2009, 06:57 PM
I disagree with we let down the boys last game. They let us down they need to realize that they must be held accountable for their actions. I know a few of the lads and they noticed it, we got into a discussion about the game on Saturday and they told me that it felt weird that we were not as loud as normal. They get it and the message has been sent to the players.

Back to MLSE they spend the money maybe not in the right places or on the right management (see every other Toronto team) but in the end they are business

jloome
06-10-2009, 06:58 PM
Heheh, good point shakes. I hate that crap in media, it's no better on the boards.

Super
06-10-2009, 06:59 PM
While I applaud the way you erected and then triumphantly smote your strawman, I don't think that was really the point Super was trying to make - agree with it or not.

- Scott

I guess my point in a nutshell is that this board is full of people who complain and bitch about how others aren't doing their job properly, while at the same time our performance as supporters have reached an all-time low. It's a little silly of us to point fingers when we do nothing to properly support the team. 112 was practically silent the last game. I find it really frustrating to labour and labour songs and chants at BMO when no one else is pitching in - except for drinking beer and cracking jokes and complaining. That's all I see lately. Except for when we score - coz we only sing when we're winning. It's a bit pathetic, really.

Section 117
06-10-2009, 07:02 PM
I guess supporters are to blame for every home loss this season. Anytime our boys get raped on the pitch, we can blame ourselves. Makes sense to me.

Right cause we are on the field. Blame the players for letting themselves get raped not the fans. We give them 100% for 90 minutes plus, that is more than they do for us some games.

Shakes McQueen
06-10-2009, 07:02 PM
I guess my point in a nutshell is that this board is full of people who complain and bitch about how others aren't doing their job properly, while at the same time our performance as supporters have reached an all-time low. It's a little silly of us to point fingers when we do nothing to properly support the team. 112 was practically silent the last game. I find it really frustrating to labour and labour songs and chants at BMO when no one else is pitching in - except for drinking beer and cracking jokes and complaining. That's all I see lately. Except for when we score - coz we only sing when we're winning. It's a bit pathetic, really.

I think a planned protest of silence to make a point to the players is okay as a single event. I think if it evolves into fair weather "only singing when we are winning", as you put it, then I have a problem.

I know I will be singing again this weekend, all of this internet squabbling aside.

- Scott

Section 117
06-10-2009, 07:07 PM
Super

Maybe the supporters are upset with the players and a message needed to be sent to them. We should have been quiet even when we scored. I wonder if they would enjoy playing in front of less than 10,000 quiet fans if they don't start making plays and giving us everything that they have.

Hooligan69
06-10-2009, 07:08 PM
Right cause we are on the field. Blame the players for letting themselves get raped not the fans. We give them 100% for 90 minutes plus, that is more than they do for us some games.

My sentiments exactly. Hope you didn't take my post the wrong way.

Super
06-10-2009, 07:10 PM
I think a planned protest of silence to make a point to the players is okay as a single event. I think if it evolves into fair weather "only singing when we are winning", as you put it, then I have a problem.

I know I will be singing again this weekend, all of this internet squabbling aside.

- Scott

It's been pretty silent most of the season. The only time it's loud is when we're winning. That's what it has come to. Personally I leave my vocal chords in the stands - win or lose. That in my opinion is how you support a team.

Super
06-10-2009, 07:11 PM
Right cause we are on the field. Blame the players for letting themselves get raped not the fans. We give them 100% for 90 minutes plus, that is more than they do for us some games.

We give 100%? I know I do, but I see rows and rows of people in 112 who do NOT sing unless we're winning. And I'm not just talking about the last game.

Let's look at the status of our support. We're not singing. We're not chanting. We're not wearing our colours. Exactly HOW are we supporting this team? Or is it that we're waiting for the time when we're winning again?

Section 117
06-10-2009, 07:20 PM
Super

I do every game I leave with little to me to no voice last Saturday was the first time I did not wear colours or chant and I really didn't feel anything I was numb from Tuesday nights mess. The problem IMO is that we have expectations and now that we don't get want we want we stay quiet is right no but it is what is

Super
06-10-2009, 07:28 PM
Super

I do every game I leave with little to me to no voice last Saturday was the first time I did not wear colours or chant and I really didn't feel anything I was numb from Tuesday nights mess. The problem IMO is that we have expectations and now that we don't get want we want we stay quiet is right no but it is what is

Alright, fair enough. I understand that a lot of people are frustrated right now, and as am I, but I don't see how we're adding anything positive by turning out backs on the team when quite frankly they need us the most. I hope people will show up on Saturday to let the players know that we're supporters, and we'll stick with them through good and bad. When we're good and the support is great we add a good 10% to the players. That's why we're considered the 12th man. But seriously, I think I can recall maybe one or two games this season where we've been good enough to earn that title.

Section 117
06-10-2009, 07:37 PM
I refuse to give up hope on this team but the lack of heart and sometimes technical skill is fustrating we have the players to do at least make the playoffs. So hopefully Saturday night we the supporters will be at out best and re lads will do the same.

TORONTO TILL I DIE

Super
06-10-2009, 07:39 PM
I refuse to give up hope on this team but the lack of heart and sometimes technical skill is fustrating we have the players to do at least make the playoffs. So hopefully Saturday night we the supporters will be at out best and re lads will do the same.

TORONTO TILL I DIE

Music to my ears!!!

craigtfc
06-10-2009, 07:50 PM
I know i'm gonna get some heat for this but i think Sam Cronin is useless, watch him play he is absolute shite! I know I know he's still young but Stefan Frei, Nana Attakora and Marvell Wynne are all the same age and they have developed into good players i cant say the same for Sam Cronin.

druid
06-10-2009, 08:18 PM
I know i'm gonna get some heat for this but i think Sam Cronin is useless, watch him play he is absolute shite! I know I know he's still young but Stefan Frei, Nana Attakora and Marvell Wynne are all the same age and they have developed into good players i cant say the same for Sam Cronin.

You maybe right that Cronin does not look as comparatively developed as the others but I think you're being a bit harsh. Central midfield is perhaps the hardest position on the pitch to play. You need a smattering of everything. Cronin's long and short distribution is pretty good. Much better than any of the players you've mentioned. His runs into the box are good and he picks up opposition runs into the box well. I think he's also trying to adapt from a defensive midfield role at Wake Forest. He does look lost for some games but he's playing a fairly whirl wind season tactically speaking.

What I think we do need as supporters is sense of humor. Its good to be vocal, good to be into it, but I think we take ourselves a bit too seriously at times. A sense of humor would go a long way to maintaining our esprit de corps over the long haul.

Shakes McQueen
06-10-2009, 08:19 PM
What I think we do need as supporters is sense of humor. Its good to be vocal, good to be into it, but I think we take ourselves a bit too seriously at times. A sense of humor would go a long way to maintaining our esprit de corps over the long haul.

This is a brilliant observation, druid. I couldn't agree more.

- Scott

jloome
06-10-2009, 08:21 PM
I know i'm gonna get some heat for this but i think Sam Cronin is useless, watch him play he is absolute shite! I know I know he's still young but Stefan Frei, Nana Attakora and Marvell Wynne are all the same age and they have developed into good players i cant say the same for Sam Cronin.

Yeah, you're right, you're gonna get some heat.

Cronin is one of the best passers on the team, his work-rate and conditioning are both first-rate. Occasionally poor decision maker, because he's very conservative, but to rate him as a poor player signifies a distinct lack of understanding of what makes a good one.

TFC USA
06-10-2009, 08:25 PM
Humor, eh?


So Chad Barrett walked into a brothel filled with dead hookers, and (finish punchline)....:D :D