Anyone listeing to the FAN590 right now

[boban]

Call in about TFC.
Comments?

[NateDoGG]

tuning in right now

[zeelaw]

ty for heads up

[boban]

Looks like its over.
Took calls for only 15 minutes .. only 2 or 3 guys got in.
But Doug was critical of the walkout by fans on Saturday.
However critical of the enormous charge for a friendly that he says will not field the top players and is an exhibition game.

One guy mentioned some people feel a sense of entitlement almost, and is not critical of MLSE, but is of MoJo.

[ExiledRed]

I feel a sense of entitlement.

What of it?

[boban]

^^ What of it is that the team is only 3 yrs old and will struggle.
That we are nothing special when compared to other suporters of other teams in this city.
Also, this 1 caller did say MLSE was the only one who stepped forward for the expansion fee and put their money up. Quit complaining is what I got out of it.

[trane]

^ We are not complaining that we have not won the MLS cup, we are complaining that it does not seem that we are heading in the right direction. Honestly how long does it take, to understant that. We have had enough time under the present regime to be able to determine that our direction seem highly suspect.

[Beach_Red]

^ We have been trying to work with MLS roster rules, using allocation money and trading for international spots and development roster stuff and so on and it looked like the right thing to do.

Then Seattle came along and said, no, first you sign a DP, then you build a team - the exact opposite.

Okay, so let's do that.

[rocker]

^ We are not complaining that we have not won the MLS cup, we are complaining that it does not seem that we are heading in the right direction. Honestly how long does it take, to understant that. We have had enough time under the present regime to be able to determine that our direction seem highly suspect.

doesn't it all come down to points? Whether I think things are OK, or whether you think they aren't, the only objective, rational way to judge the team is points earned in the season.

Season 1: 25 points
Season 2: 35 points
Season 3: not over yet...

If the team doesn't improve in points this year, it has stagnated and it's time for a new direction.
If the team improves in points this year, then MoJo should get another year. Three years of improvement is not a reason to fire a guy. Stagnation or fewer points is, in my opinion.

[denime]

doesn't it all come down to points? Whether I think things are OK, or whether you think they aren't, the only objective, rational way to judge the team is points earned in the season.

Season 1: 25 points
Season 2: 35 points
Season 3: not over yet...and we have LESS points than year before

If the team doesn't improve in points this year, it has stagnated and it's time for a new direction.
If the team improves in points this year, then MoJo should get another year. Three years of improvement is not a reason to fire a guy. Stagnation or fewer points is, in my opinion.


FIXED :D

[trane]

doesn't it all come down to points? Whether I think things are OK, or whether you think they aren't, the only objective, rational way to judge the team is points earned in the season.

Season 1: 25 points
Season 2: 35 points
Season 3: not over yet...

If the team doesn't improve in points this year, it has stagnated and it's time for a new direction.
If the team improves in points this year, then MoJo should get another year. Three years of improvement is not a reason to fire a guy. Stagnation or fewer points is, in my opinion.

I think that is the differnce is view points, I have only seen marginal improvment on the pitch, some days the improvement is clear, and some we look as bad as ever, and at the end of the day in terms of poins, and the CL, we are in the same spot, worse in fact as Denime pointed out. I think that we are stagnating. I kind of thought that in late summer last year, has some hope restored with Cummins, and now I feel the same, without haveing made my mind about Cummins himslef.

[dcdcdc]

^ We have been trying to work with MLS roster rules, using allocation money and trading for international spots and development roster stuff and so on and it looked like the right thing to do.

Then Seattle came along and said, no, first you sign a DP, then you build a team - the exact opposite.

Okay, so let's do that.

The difference between Seattle and Toronto is is that Seattle had to spend DP money in order to get people to pay any attention. They also needed relatively lower ticket prices than us and more included bonuses (such as great friendlies) in order to get people in the stands. They needed to work a lot harder than Toronto did

In our case, people showed up and snapped up all the tickets before we knew the product on the field. If there was bad attendance in the first year, maybe we would have got a DP by now

[ExiledRed]

doesn't it all come down to points? Whether I think things are OK, or whether you think they aren't, the only objective, rational way to judge the team is points earned in the season.

Season 1: 25 points
Season 2: 35 points
Season 3: not over yet...

If the team doesn't improve in points this year, it has stagnated and it's time for a new direction.
If the team improves in points this year, then MoJo should get another year. Three years of improvement is not a reason to fire a guy. Stagnation or fewer points is, in my opinion.

Rocker,

If we finish with four more points than last year but are more than four points adrift of the playoffs, is that an improvement?

[boban]

The difference between Seattle and Toronto is is that Seattle had to spend DP money in order to get people to pay any attention. They also needed relatively lower ticket prices than us and more included bonuses (such as great friendlies) in order to get people in the stands. They needed to work a lot harder than Toronto did

In our case, people showed up and snapped up all the tickets before we knew the product on the field. If there was bad attendance in the first year, maybe we would have got a DP by now
There is no difference.
Seattle sold just as many season tickets as us without signing their DP.
Also the friendlies were announced only a couple of months ago after the season started. There was nothing to placate the fans with.
In fact they sold tickets (and more of them) easier than TFC.

[ExiledRed]

There is no difference.
Seattle sold just as many season tickets as us without signing their DP.
Also the friendlies were announced only a couple of months ago after the season started. There was nothing to placate the fans with.
In fact they sold tickets (and more of them) easier than TFC.

This is because Seattle's owner (Drew Carey) cares about the sport and wanted to treat the fans to reward their overwhelming support.

Make no mistake here, if we hadn't sold out our seasons so quickly, we would have had a DP in season one. Anselmi said so himself.

[dcdcdc]

Make no mistake here, if we hadn't sold out our seasons so quickly, we would have had a DP in season one. Anselmi said so himself.

Exactly..

People jumped onboard with this franchise, supporters groups, etc. without MLSE having to do absolutely anything except bring the franchise here. Did they deserve it? No and I can understand the frustration people have.. but did MLSE really promise anything from the outset

[Sparta]

doesnt matter if they never promised anything from the onset -- options are options -- so we arent doing well with grass or no dp, so option one is to get it

Option 2 -- feel the protest(if its a good one) and deal with the consequences till option one gets resolved

If not, higher ticket prices, less passionate supports and sub-par soccer = non profitable product

[shaggingscot]

Rocker,

If we finish with four more points than last year but are more than four points adrift of the playoffs, is that an improvement?

Agree with ER here. I was willing to put up with shite for the first season but expect more this season.

I expected....

Playoffs

The CCL spot (it will take a real thumping of Montreal to see that)

Added quality to the team (Dero qualifies, Moe drafted well) but where's the improvement in the back and up front? Hopefully Garcia can help out but we really need to stop leaking goals and finish the chances we create.

If we finish the season with this roster and miss the playoffs and the CCL spot then the season has been a colossal failure and no amount of FO spin could convince me otherwise.

[james]

^^ What of it is that the team is only 3 yrs old and will struggle.
That we are nothing special when compared to other suporters of other teams in this city.
Also, this 1 caller did say MLSE was the only one who stepped forward for the expansion fee and put their money up. Quit complaining is what I got out of it.


true, ive supported other teams in this city to. But one thing i hate about supporting other teams that suck is the fans dont really do anything about it and seem to just keep on sucking year after year. I think its good that TFC fans are stepping up and saying they dont want to be like other fans in this city and just except lossing, or else we will end up like the Leafs or something and suck for decades.

[boban]

If we finish the season with this roster and miss the playoffs and the CCL spot then the season has been a colossal failure and no amount of FO spin could convince me otherwise.
You got that right.

:hurray: :flare: :hurray:

[PRB]

^ We are not complaining that we have not won the MLS cup, we are complaining that it does not seem that we are heading in the right direction. Honestly how long does it take, to understant that. We have had enough time under the present regime to be able to determine that our direction seem highly suspect.

Enough time? 2.5 years? It takes a good 4-5 years at least to build a winner unless you are one of the few teams on the planet that have an owner that will just throw the cash at players to buy a winner. Baring a handful of teams in the world that isn't the way it works. How long did it take Alex Ferguson per say to make his United team competitive. Rafa Benitez in Liverpool is 5 years in and still trying to win a league title.

Let the baby grow. I think the team will com through in the end. If in 5 years from now there is still little to no progress then I could really understand the anger.

Try telling my cousin ... A life-long dedicated Leeds United fan that we're hard done by when his team went from Semi-Finals of the Champions League to relegation in a matter of years, to administration, to another relegation and then deduction of points. A team the size of Leeds are still rotting away in League One. I know it is a different league and different country but the comparison still stands ... 9th out of 15 teams and just 3 points out of 4th and 5 out of 2nd overall is not THAT bad at all!!!

[trane]

^ You are comparing LFC's attempt to win the EPL to that of TFC struggle to play basic footy?


[ LFC made it to the CL finals twice once beating Milan and once being beaten by Milan- we cannot beat Vancouver]

[PRB]

It's not a direct comparison but trying to put it into a context. Sure things aren't perfect right now but is 2.5 years enough time anyway? The league standings don't lie and going by them TFC are not doing THAT bad.

[ExiledRed]

It's not a direct comparison but trying to put it into a context. Sure things aren't perfect right now but is 2.5 years enough time anyway? The league standings don't lie and going by them TFC are not doing THAT bad.

It's more than enough time to tell if were on the right track.

we're not, and if Liverpool were set to finish last place in the league at any time during his tenure, Benitez would be gone. In five seasons he has kept the team in the top 4, won the CL (first year), the FA cup, signed the most succesful debutante in club history and persistently outperformed Wenger. There is no comparison to Mo here.

[james]

It's not a direct comparison but trying to put it into a context. Sure things aren't perfect right now but is 2.5 years enough time anyway? The league standings don't lie and going by them TFC are not doing THAT bad.

its more then enough time to win the Canadian Championship, there is only 3 teams, and TFC are in the higher division and we cant even win it.

[Oldtimer]

Enough time? 2.5 years? It takes a good 4-5 years at least to build a winner unless you are one of the few teams on the planet that have an owner that will just throw the cash at players to buy a winner. Baring a handful of teams in the world that isn't the way it works. How long did it take Alex Ferguson per say to make his United team competitive. Rafa Benitez in Liverpool is 5 years in and still trying to win a league title.



How dare you speak sensibly on this board. :lol:

[ExiledRed]

How dare you speak sensibly on this board. :lol:

It's OK, don't worry man, he didn't.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

There is a lot of parity in MLS, so competitive teams can be built quickly. Chicago won the MLS Cup in its inaugural season, and Chivas made the playoffs in only its second season and has been a strong side since. Even Seattle has played well so far, and is third in the Western Conference despite leveling off a bit. Clearly, expansion teams in MLS can be brought up to par over a short time period.

[jloome]

It's OK, don't worry man, he didn't.

Haha, QFT. It's not uncommon for MLS teams to turn over a third of their roster every season, so waiting for the team to 'gel' - particularly when the best young players will always go overseas for more money - is ridiculous.

There are immediate and obvious changes that need to be made to the team. Mo hasn't made them yet.

If he's lucky, Garcia will regain his old form (and playing with Robbo right in front of him, he might) and Gerba will poach on all that junk we have floating around the box, we'll squeak into the playoffs (but no more) and MLSE will be convinced he deserves a two-year extension.

Won't change the fact that we're basically one league-leading-quality striker and one top central defender from competing for the title, just like numerous other teams.

[TFC Tifoso]

Haha, QFT. It's not uncommon for MLS teams to turn over a third of their roster every season, so waiting for the team to 'gel' - particularly when the best young players will always go overseas for more money - is ridiculous.

There are immediate and obvious changes that need to be made to the team. Mo hasn't made them yet.

If he's lucky, Garcia will regain his old form (and playing with Robbo right in front of him, he might) and Gerba will poach on all that junk we have floating around the box, we'll squeak into the playoffs (but no more) and MLSE will be convinced he deserves a two-year extension.

Won't change the fact that we're basically one league-leading-quality striker and one top central defender from competing for the title, just like numerous other teams.

I think there's depth issues too.....some injuries to the starting XI and we're fucked.....but I guess the move would be to at least solidify the starting XI and go from there.

[Beach_Red]

There are immediate and obvious changes that need to be made to the team. Mo hasn't made them yet.

Won't change the fact that we're basically one league-leading-quality striker and one top central defender from competing for the title, just like numerous other teams.


These seem contradictory - unless by "changes" you mean just the addition of two players.

I would say the team needs far more than that. Like you said, MLS teams can turn over a third of their rosters in a single year - Vancouver is a completely different team than it was a couple of years ago and TFC has the same captain it did as a first year expansion team. The guy who scored the first goal in the team's history is still the go-to guy for scoring. If they hadn't got lucky in the draft and had Frei land in their laps they'd still have a USL goalie.

These are all nice guys and fan favourites, but it's the most obvious signs of a team not moving forward.

[Shakes McQueen]

There is a lot of parity in MLS, so competitive teams can be built quickly. Chicago won the MLS Cup in its inaugural season, and Chivas made the playoffs in only its second season and has been a strong side since. Even Seattle has played well so far, and is third in the Western Conference despite leveling off a bit. Clearly, expansion teams in MLS can be brought up to par over a short time period.

Likewise, the difference between a great team and a bad team in a league with parity isn't a big one. That argument goes both ways.

Look at San Jose, if you'd like an example. Were one of the best teams in the league in the second half of last season, and many people here used them as the gold standard for how to build a team quickly in comparison to ours. Where are they now?

Look at how badly Columbus and New England have leveled off from the previous season or two. Seattle went from being unbeatable at the beginning of this season, to looking very mortal in recent weeks - they currently have one more point than we do (albeit with a game in hand).

A roster shakeup has been needed after all of these recent shitty results, and that appears to be happening now. For all we know, Gerba could click, and suddenly we become a great team for the second half of the season. These things are fragile in MLS.

The line between "right track" and "wrong track" is not a thick one. Our management frustrates the shit out of me with some of the seemingly asinine things they do, but I remain optimistic for results.

- Scott

[PRB]

It's more than enough time to tell if were on the right track.

we're not, and if Liverpool were set to finish last place in the league at any time during his tenure, Benitez would be gone. In five seasons he has kept the team in the top 4, won the CL (first year), the FA cup, signed the most succesful debutante in club history and persistently outperformed Wenger. There is no comparison to Mo here.

Disagree that it is enough time to begin complaining about so many things. People like a good old whine over anything but the number of things here is quite crazy.

With regards to Liverpool I was drawing a comparison with a new manager trying to win the league title which is you were a Liverpool fan you would surely understand is the trophy the fans want.

The example might not have been great but the fact still stands: The team is 2.5 years old and expecting them to be challenging for the championship already is a little over the top. The owners might be wealthy but they are business men and they will want the team to stand on its own two feet and make itself profitable before pouring money into a Designated Player. Most football teams around the world use the money they make to spend on players unless you are a Chelsea. Besides the fact that we are only a handful of points out of the top 2-4 places has been ignored completely .... But then don't let the facts get in the way of a good moan.



It's OK, don't worry man, he didn't.

Excuse my opinion!!