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fetajr
06-08-2009, 12:47 PM
I would like MLSE out of TFC's life for good, but it can only happen if MLSE sells the franchise to someone else.

How can MLSE identify the correct person to run TFC? if Anselmi fires MO, how the fuck can we expect that he's gonna make a smart move and get the right person to replace him? its like the blind leading the blind.

With MLSE's primary objective to make money with their sports franchises, what will it take for them to realize that they've maxed out on the TFC venture and its time to sell?

Can we do anything to accelerate it?, Can it be done?

Not sure if the money made with season ticket sales allows them to break even with TFC or if they're profitting after tickets are sold..who knows...


Boycotting concessions, stop buying official merchandise, maybe a supporter strike (hahaha)..i don't know... however i feel that there is something that we all could do about this, not like the leafs where we are totally fucked with the MLSE monster..until there are 1 or 2 more teams in the GTA.

Yohan
06-08-2009, 12:49 PM
Or, find couple of investors who are willing to buy the team...

Oblio2
06-08-2009, 12:50 PM
Stop blaming the Teachers. It doesnt make sense.
Success breeds more money. Saying they don't want to succeed is nonsense. The amount of money that has been ploughed into the Leafs was huge, yet they still lost.

Blaming the Teachers (pension fund) is ludicrous.

nobodybeatsthewiz
06-08-2009, 12:51 PM
only way they will sell is if they get overbid on their owned defined forward enterprise value, plain and simple.

mlse is run by larry - larry is a p/e guy, to the bone (this means he is in the business of squeezing blood out of stones - to actively manage the numbers as best they can) to say its business is putting it lightly.

someone would have to either:

1) come in with a bid that is >>>> NAV of the club (net asset value) + a premium

or

2) come in during a time of duress where larry's boys dont see the growth they once did. then at that point they could entertain offers.

Hooligan69
06-08-2009, 12:51 PM
Or, find couple of investors who are willing to buy the team...

A billionaire from Russia? :lol:

nobodybeatsthewiz
06-08-2009, 12:52 PM
Stop blaming the Teachers. It doesnt make sense.
Success breeds more money. Saying they don't want to succeed is nonsense. The amount of money that has been ploughed into the Leafs was huge, yet they still lost.

Blaming the Teachers (pension fund) is ludicrous.


to a small degree it isnt ludicrous, but mostly it really is......they're just investors in larry's big pet.

Jay P
06-08-2009, 12:53 PM
convince redbull to buy our team, we can be Red Bull Toronto ....

Or Joey Saputo to buy TFC and we can be the Toronto Impact.

fetajr
06-08-2009, 12:53 PM
Stop blaming the Teachers. It doesnt make sense.
Success breeds more money. Saying they don't want to succeed is nonsense. The amount of money that has been ploughed into the Leafs was huge, yet they still lost.

Blaming the Teachers (pension fund) is ludicrous.

sorry don't mean to blame teachers, just want to point out what everyone already knows, the OTPP owns MLSE which owns TFC... I imagine any sale has to go through 'the board' at OTPP

Hooligan69
06-08-2009, 12:53 PM
Just not the bastard Yanks who bought Liverpool.

Parkdale
06-08-2009, 12:58 PM
hahahahha...


sorry, but bringing an MLS team to town was a gamble, and MLSE took the risk.
They could have ended up with another Marlies on their hand, but it didn't happen that way.

who else could run the show? Ted Rogers? The Argos owners? Jim Basillie?
oh i know..... the collective pocketbook of the Toronto FC supporters

fetajr
06-08-2009, 01:00 PM
hahahahha...

oh i know..... the collective pocketbook of the Toronto FC supporters


a couple fundraisers here and there, you'll be owners in no time

"RPB Sports and Entertainment"

Fort York Redcoat
06-08-2009, 01:03 PM
The quickest way would be if all those RPB with children homeschool. They would have to sell MLSE then.;)

Beach_Red
06-08-2009, 01:03 PM
a couple fundraisers here and there, you'll be owners in no time

"RPB Sports and Entertainment"


It would be worth it just to watch you guys pick a replacement for Mo.

Kickit09
06-08-2009, 01:04 PM
to a small degree it isnt ludicrous, but mostly it really is......they're just investors in larry's big pet.


They are a lot more than just investors. With 58% ownership of MLSE they are in the driving seat.

jabbronies
06-08-2009, 01:04 PM
The answer isn't getting another owner. This isn't Newcastle.

Sorry to say this people, but there isn't another group in the city that are more well prepared to run a sports franchise than MLSE.

Yes they are greedy, but we need to keep voicing our concerns and change that greediness of thiers. The Leafs brought in a proper GM, given him the reigns and are in the midst of changing. TFC has had this in place for a while - the ability to do things thier own way without board member medling.

Or have they? can someone prove this otherwise?

Pyeddo
06-08-2009, 01:05 PM
The man you're looking for is Alex Shnaider

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Shnaider

DangerRed
06-08-2009, 01:06 PM
sorry don't mean to blame teachers, just want to point out what everyone already knows, the OTPP owns MLSE which owns TFC... I imagine any sale has to go through 'the board' at OTPP

Let me educate you: Teachers owns 58 percent of MLSE. The rest is owned by Larry Tanenbaum, TD Bank and CTVglobemedia, which is in part owned by Torstar, Teachers, the Thomson Family and BCE Inc.

There are 9 seats on the MLSE board. Four of those are held by Teachers or Teachers-affiliated people. Any sale of a principal corporate asset such as Toronto FC would have to go to an MLSE vote.

Just a few factoids to keep under your less-than-fully informed hat.

T-Bird
06-08-2009, 01:07 PM
We should all pool our money and buy the team!! :p

Hooligan69
06-08-2009, 01:08 PM
We should all pool our money and buy the team!! :p

I think we might need to use the same sort of system used to make money in the Japanese movie Swallowtail Butterfly. That would be highly illegal though.

:rofl: :lol:

fetajr
06-08-2009, 01:09 PM
TFC has had this in place for a while - the ability to do things thier own way without board member medling.


but this is my one and only concern. I am grateful for what seems to be TFC's Autonomy, but I am convinced that MLSE does not know shit about soccer, and therefore will not hire the right people to run the team.

Its either they start investing money and getting this right, or I want another owner who will.

fetajr
06-08-2009, 01:11 PM
Let me educate you: Teachers owns 58 percent of MLSE. The rest is owned by Larry Tanenbaum, TD Bank and CTVglobemedia, which is in part owned by Torstar, Teachers, the Thomson Family and BCE Inc.

There are 9 seats on the MLSE board. Four of those are held by Teachers or Teachers-affiliated people. Any sale of a principal corporate asset such as Toronto FC would have to go to an MLSE vote.

Just a few factoids to keep under your less-than-fully informed hat.

thank you,

either way, MLSE and all the fingers in the MLSE pie, OUT,..please.

nobodybeatsthewiz
06-08-2009, 01:13 PM
larry has a strong influence on that board though

bee dubya
06-08-2009, 01:17 PM
Without MLSE and gov't money, there would be no BMO Field and no TFC. They took the risk on the team in the first place. They weren't sure that it was going to sell out, for all they knew, they'd have about 10,000 fans at a game. I can't see MLSE getting rid of TFC at the moment. It just doesn't make sense.

billyfly
06-08-2009, 01:20 PM
a couple fundraisers here and there, you'll be owners in no time

"RPB Sports and Entertainment"

The way this board is sometimes, I think more entertainment than sports.

Kickit09
06-08-2009, 01:23 PM
the true face of Ontario Teachers Pension Plan....




The Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan has filed a lawsuit in Oklahoma against Chesapeake Energy, accusing the chief executive and directors of breaching their fiduciary duties to shareholders "by approving excessive expenses."


http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Ontario+Teachers+files+lawsuit+Oklahoma/1674533/story.html

nobodybeatsthewiz
06-08-2009, 01:27 PM
the true face of Ontario Teachers Pension Plan....




http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Ontario+Teachers+files+lawsuit+Oklahoma/1674533/story.html


gotta love it. they want all them thare natural gasses desposits in the mid/southwest but dont want to pay for its extraction.

maybe kind of like not wanting to pay for much around these parts too. i wonder if we'll get sued, haha.

TFC FORZA RPB
06-08-2009, 01:32 PM
Or, find couple of investors who are willing to buy the team...
Jim Balsille. But they'd never sell to the devil who is trying to bring and end to the world's largest monopoly.

jabbronies
06-08-2009, 01:33 PM
but this is my one and only concern. I am grateful for what seems to be TFC's Autonomy, but I am convinced that MLSE does not know shit about soccer, and therefore will not hire the right people to run the team.

Its either they start investing money and getting this right, or I want another owner who will.

Mo Johnston and Paul B are the ones running the team.
I wouldn't say they don't know shit about soccer. Mo's draft picks have been pretty spot on for the most part and his knowledge of the ins and outs of MLS have gotten us some good talent - no?

As for Paul B and his stadd, isn't he the one who is always talking to the supporters and getting thier feedback on shit?

flatpicker
06-08-2009, 01:37 PM
Stop blaming the Teachers. It doesnt make sense.
Success breeds more money. Saying they don't want to succeed is nonsense. The amount of money that has been ploughed into the Leafs was huge, yet they still lost.

Blaming the Teachers (pension fund) is ludicrous.


well... I would agree that MLSE has put quite a bit of cash into its teams.
But, there is a difference between spending enough to get people's hopes up, and spending enough to make a run for the title.
Spending enough to make a serious go at a championship requires some risk-taking.
I don't see MLSE doing that too quickly.
Yes, success breeds more money.
But there are no guarantees of success, so why would they gamble the extra money on it?
MLSE's desire to win only goes so far.



hahahahha...


sorry, but bringing an MLS team to town was a gamble, and MLSE took the risk.
They could have ended up with another Marlies on their hand, but it didn't happen that way.

who else could run the show? Ted Rogers? The Argos owners? Jim Basillie?
oh i know..... the collective pocketbook of the Toronto FC supporters


agreed...
If not for MLSE, none of this would be happening right now.
They did take a gamble... a gamble involving small number$ by their standards... and it has paid off for them.

It's easy to get swept up in dreams of 'what could be'
But the fact is, it looks like MLSE will be running the show for some time.
And with the success they are having, why would they think of leaving it behind now?

I think we just need to work on making sure we maintain pressure on them to build a successful team.

CoachGT
06-08-2009, 01:38 PM
Why would any good business sell a profit producing component unless they sold it at a premium price. In this financial market, this is just a dream. Besides, why do you think things would be better under another owner? There is no evidence to support that.

And I'd rather have a sports company own the franchise than someone else with no sporting background.

Pyeddo
06-08-2009, 01:38 PM
As for Paul B and his stadd, isn't he the one who is always mocking the supporters and telling them their feedback is shit?

Yes.

RedMAN127
06-08-2009, 01:44 PM
CTV is in dire need of cash; think Tanenbum already bought more shares from them ... anyone know what there share would work out to? maybe it can be divided into preffered shares (for fans/supporters/etc).

Also, Tanenbum was born into his riches, and in good concious should sell his media and sports interests and use the insane wealth for philanthropic endaevors rather than building more wealth than he can ever use ...

fetajr
06-08-2009, 01:45 PM
Why would any good business sell a profit producing component unless they sold it at a premium price. In this financial market, this is just a dream. Besides, why do you think things would be better under another owner? There is no evidence to support that.

And I'd rather have a sports company own the franchise than someone else with no sporting background.


Maybe the business see's a drop in profits or the rate of return has gone down to levels that have them wondering if its even worth it.

I am done with MLSE, especially after the Real Madrid slap in the face. I would take any owner over MLSE period, just as long as they keep it in Toronto

fetajr
06-08-2009, 01:53 PM
Mo Johnston and Paul B are the ones running the team.
I wouldn't say they don't know shit about soccer. Mo's draft picks have been pretty spot on for the most part and his knowledge of the ins and outs of MLS have gotten us some good talent - no?

As for Paul B and his stadd, isn't he the one who is always talking to the supporters and getting thier feedback on shit?

I have never heard of Paul B, but MO has done nothing to prove that he is the best guy for the job. The product of the field demonstrates just that. I am not talking about talent, on paper TFC looks great.

But there seems to be no model of team strategy. For example, when a team wants to play a possession style, they get guys that can play within that format. When a team wants to play long ball, they get guys to accommodate that.

In TFC's case, they got a mix of guys that have many strengths. Whats the strategy?...so far I see lots of long balls, just boot it up and hope for a lucky bounce type plays. Thats the shit that drives me nuts and hasn't changed since TFC was born, not to mention Mo and this management has been here since day 1. Start putting the peices of the puzzle together and you'll realize that these guys haven't got a clue about soccer.

Beach_Red
06-08-2009, 02:09 PM
In TFC's case, they got a mix of guys that have many strengths. Whats the strategy?...so far I see lots of long balls, just boot it up and hope for a lucky bounce type plays.


But that's MLS isn't it? It's a league made up of US college graduates and players who couldn't catch on anywhere else.

The way to win in MLS is to be the best at reacting, being opportunistic and grabbing whatever players you can and then playing as simple a game as possible.

Super
06-08-2009, 02:10 PM
The only thing that is wrong with this club is the lack of grass at BMO. To think that Mo or Paul doesn't want grass is beyond silly - it would make their job a whole hell of a lot easier. The rest is just football - you win some, you lose some. But the lack of grass is a huge factor in the overall frustration felt by all - and as we all know permanent grass is NOT a decision left to MLSE alone.

We will get grass, but we're dealing with the government - and they're not exactly putting our desire for grass high on their agenda.

fetajr
06-08-2009, 02:11 PM
But that's MLS isn't it? It's a league made up of US college graduates and players who couldn't catch on anywhere else.

The way to win in MLS is to be the best at reacting, being opportunistic and grabbing whatever players you can and then playing as simple a game as possible.

shieeet..but there's gotta be a revolution at some point.

Beach_Red
06-08-2009, 02:15 PM
shieeet..but there's gotta be a revolution at some point.

When more than two teams are making a profit? When more than two teams have fans that care about soccer?

Actually there should be an increase in the salary cap when the CBA gets renegotiated and that will make a huge difference. We think the league is growing too slowly, most teams are having trouble selling tickets so they want it to go slower.

You do have to keep in mind that a big reason MLS exists is to develop American players. That's coming along, but it's going to take a while to increase the level of play in the whole league.

Beach_Red
06-08-2009, 02:17 PM
The only thing that is wrong with this club is the lack of grass at BMO. To think that Mo or Paul doesn't want grass is beyond silly - it would make their job a whole hell of a lot easier. The rest is just football - you win some, you lose some. But the lack of grass is a huge factor in the overall frustration felt by all - and as we all know permanent grass is NOT a decision left to MLSE alone.


Are you sure that MLSE isn't happy with the lack of grass giving them a good enough excuse not to spend $2-3 million on a DP? They get to say, "We'd love to sign a DP, but none will play on our turf..." When we know that money talks and they could find a DP striker to play on turf by offering more money than anyone else will pay.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-08-2009, 05:22 PM
switching owners is not realistic..not now anyways...besdies we could end up with owners like the Hartrells who ran the Lynx into the ground..What we do need if for MLSE to hire a Footnall minded person (Holger) or someone like that to be in control of football operations.Mo could work with this person and actually scout more in the UK, South america etc.

Pookie
06-08-2009, 06:19 PM
The premise of this thread is a little off.

Any owner would want to make a profit. Even the fanatic with more money to burn than brains is eventually going to need to turn a profit. Accept it. We have a team because a business thought it was viable to turn a profit on it. If that wasn't there, neither would the team.

Comments regarding MLSE being cheap as an organization are somewhat unfounded. Before the cap in the NHL, MLSE routinely approved budgets that would have them spend in the Top 5 in the league. Of course, they spent that on guys like Robert Reichel but that's another story. The money was there.

They also gave the reigns to GMs who would "go for it." Trading the future for players that could help them in the "now" were common and the team is paying for it now. Owen Nolan, Brian Leetch are but a few examples of trade deadline deals that mortgaged the future for a chance to win.

They also went out this year and got arguably one of the more experienced men in the business and gave him the keys to the shed. They paid through the nose to get Burke but they got him. Peddie removed himself from team operations and away they go.

Now, the other side of the coin in support of your argument is that aren't perfect and why we can't have real grass when there is a clear business reason to do so is beyond me. The way that Seattle included both Chelsea and Barcelona in their season ticket package is an example of how we deserve to be treated.

To have a coach quit mid steam. To have the kind of infighting we are rumoured to have in the locker room. To have players openly question ownership's commitment to the team are all examples of crappy management.

I have to be optimistic that the changes they've made with their hockey team are reflective of forward thinking individuals on the board. I have to think that those same individuals will win out in the end with TFC.

Kickit09
06-08-2009, 06:20 PM
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/picture.php?albumid=199&pictureid=1632

Get In There
06-08-2009, 06:40 PM
But that's MLS isn't it? It's a league made up of US college graduates and players who couldn't catch on anywhere else.

The way to win in MLS is to be the best at reacting, being opportunistic and grabbing whatever players you can and then playing as simple a game as possible.

You're bang on

And I think that's going to be the issue going forward.

We were all ready to sign on to 'have our won thing' and support soccer in Canada.

But the true nature of the quality we have signed up for is starting to wear thin. add on the other crap with the FO.

A salary cap league with hyper parity so you hit the pot once in a while = MLSE wood

Too bad they are going to blow it with short term greed and poor management.

People are going to get bored real quick - IMHO

jabbronies
06-08-2009, 07:08 PM
Now, the other side of the coin in support of your argument is that aren't perfect and why we can't have real grass when there is a clear business reason to do so is beyond me. The way that Seattle included both Chelsea and Barcelona in their season ticket package is an example of how we deserve to be treated.

The first part about grass is simple. There's alot of red tape that needs to be sorted. We've heard many a times from people on the messageboard who are not related to TFC, but to the City of Toronto, that have said plans are in the works, but these things take time.

As for the second part - I agree 100%



To have a coach quit mid steam. To have the kind of infighting we are rumoured to have in the locker room. To have players openly question ownership's commitment to the team are all examples of crappy management.

I've heard of the infighting in the locker room between players but that seems to be with each other and not the ownership. The only complaint I've heard about ownership came from Dero about the grass and Carver about his whole deal.



I have to be optimistic that the changes they've made with their hockey team are reflective of forward thinking individuals on the board. I have to think that those same individuals will win out in the end with TFC.

Fingers crossed.

Now lets be realistic, was Mo the best guy we could've gotten when this team started back in 2007 - who else was available? Did MLSE do thier homework? or did they miss out on someone?? And be honest with yourselves before you answer this and don't name people like Mourinho who have not interest in MLS what-so-ever.

jabbronies
06-08-2009, 07:10 PM
You're bang on

And I think that's going to be the issue going forward.

We were all ready to sign on to 'have our won thing' and support soccer in Canada.

But the true nature of the quality we have signed up for is starting to wear thin. add on the other crap with the FO.

A salary cap league with hyper parity so you hit the pot once in a while = MLSE wood

Too bad they are going to blow it with short term greed and poor management.

People are going to get bored real quick - IMHO

Really?? you are ready to quit already? In year 3?
and we make fun of Columbus fans...

rocker
06-08-2009, 07:15 PM
Really?? you are ready to quit already? In year 3?
and we make fun of Columbus fans...

yeah.. and it's not even halfway through season 3... like 2.5... quitters!

jabbronies
06-08-2009, 07:23 PM
yeah.. and it's not even halfway through season 3... like 2.5... quitters!

For real....

Canadian Soccer isn't going to change in 5 years. It's more like 10-15.
If you don't have the paitence for that, then bugger off for 7-12 years come back then.

As for TFC - at least wait for the end of the season to give up....1 win and we're in 2nd in the East. It's not like we're NY.

Get In There
06-08-2009, 07:25 PM
^^ I hear what you are saying

But the casual SSH pays a big chunk of the bill.

A year from now and we're in the same boat....?

the games are a sloppy mess

?

It's not that far away

B

jabbronies
06-08-2009, 07:28 PM
Or a year from now we have O'Brien White and Ibbe Ibraham as our striking unit and they are lighting up the scoreboard. And Nana turns out to be a solid Defender.

Frei - who is still a rookie shakes off the rookie season nerves and is the #1 goalie in the league.

Sorry, but there is too much in our future to give up on TFC right now.

rocker
06-08-2009, 07:31 PM
A year from now and we're in the same boat....?
the games are a sloppy mess
It's not that far away


just worry about it when it comes to fruition.
no sense worrying about things that may happen in 2010.
live in the here and now :)

James Oliphant
06-08-2009, 07:34 PM
a couple fundraisers here and there, you'll be owners in no time

"RPB Sports and Entertainment"

In other words, a whole new set of coaches/management/players every week.

Get In There
06-08-2009, 07:35 PM
Or a year from now we have O'Brien White and Ibbe Ibraham as our striking unit and they are lighting up the scoreboard. And Nana turns out to be a solid Defender.

Frei - who is still a rookie shakes off the rookie season nerves and is the #1 goalie in the league.

Sorry, but there is too much in our future to give up on TFC right now.

I hear you.....but you are not the norm. The average SSH.

If I keep my seats or not (about $2,300 investment with parking, drinks etc) I am going to be a fan, and go a few times a year, in my world I'm still on the bus....

That may be enough to keep MLSE happy and the seats just filled enough....or it might not.

If the predictions don;t come true, like they haven't this year....?

Lose the Voyagers cup again?

B

Chevy
06-08-2009, 07:38 PM
In other words, a whole new set of coaches/management/players every week.

lol. It would be George Stienbrenner on roids.

boban
06-08-2009, 08:38 PM
hahahahha...


sorry, but bringing an MLS team to town was a gamble, and MLSE took the risk.
They could have ended up with another Marlies on their hand, but it didn't happen that way.

who else could run the show? Ted Rogers? The Argos owners? Jim Basillie?
oh i know..... the collective pocketbook of the Toronto FC supporters
It wasn't that big of a gamble as MLSE would like you to believe.
One thing MLSE doesn't do is take big risks.
There are a lot of super rich Torontonians.
Did you hear about the Argo's current owners before they bought the team?

boban
06-08-2009, 08:40 PM
The answer isn't getting another owner. This isn't Newcastle.

Sorry to say this people, but there isn't another group in the city that are more well prepared to run a sports franchise than MLSE.

Yes they are greedy, but we need to keep voicing our concerns and change that greediness of thiers. The Leafs brought in a proper GM, given him the reigns and are in the midst of changing. TFC has had this in place for a while - the ability to do things thier own way without board member medling.

Or have they? can someone prove this otherwise?
What are you insulting us here??
Just what the fuck have they done right is what I ask.
4 teams and 0 titles. Nuff said.

jazzy
06-08-2009, 09:03 PM
Or a year from now we have O'Brien White and Ibbe Ibraham as our striking unit and they are lighting up the scoreboard. And Nana turns out to be a solid Defender.

Frei - who is still a rookie shakes off the rookie season nerves and is the #1 goalie in the league.

Sorry, but there is too much in our future to give up on TFC right now.

I like the attitude towards the rookies but will O'Brian White ever play? I've always been jinxed about his acl injury....and where we picked him...love to be proven wrong,....I am confused about Ibraham.....He was good enough last year and exciting but why is he not used this year? Also I not sure I have confidence in Cummins substitions...far too late to make any difference in games.