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Pookie
06-03-2009, 05:40 PM
Dear Paul,

I think for the most part, many of us agree that MLSE is a business and as such is entitled to profits. If you didn't make a profit, we wouldn't have a team. We want you to be successful.

We want this team to win. I have to believe you do too. Winning is good for business.

There are few events that have happened that need to be considered together.

1. The failure to sign a DP
2. The plastic pitch
3. The Real Madrid Friendly
4. The on field performance
5. The feeling of being "used"

These are not separate events. I firmly believe they are connected.

We understand it is tough to get players to come here. Many have publicly stated that they do not want to play here. Beckham never stepped foot on our pitch in a league game. Darren Huckerby opted for real grass over our club. Even the "Canadian Saviour" De Rosario hates the field turf.

Those are just a few public examples. I'm sure there are countless private ones as evidenced by the fact that Real Madrid would not allow its players to play here without a grass surface.

By installing a temporary grass surface you are effectively saying a few things.

1. THEIR players (and their knees) are more important than ours
2. Anything can be accomplished if the price is right. Therefore, there is no real hold up to installing grass now it's simply a choice not to
3. The money spent by fans of Real Madrid or other casual soccer fans is more valuable (than the money spent by your regular fans, including those that have sucked up Marlies' tickets for the privilege of seeing this team

Please be clear, it’s not about the aesthetics. It's about being able to attract quality talent which has a direct impact on the performance.

With the exception of the DP, this is a salary capped world. All teams are in a fairly equal position when it comes to contracts. Why would you handicap our team by giving it an inferior surface to play on? Or jeopardize your ability to get a talented player who is concerned about shortening his career on field turf? Do you really think our less humid spring and fall weather is a selling feature?

You told us it was a financial issue with the city. Well, apparently, the City is willing to forgo weeks of rentals while you install a temporary surface for this Real Madrid game. I gather they are getting a share of it.

Truly, how much would it cost to compensate them for "lost revenue" through the winter? The model is there, it's simply a business deal.

If you want to restore some trust and actually improve the product on the field, leverage your investment in this temporary surface and do the right thing.

Make this a permanent fixture until the end of the season. Buy your irrigation system now. Install it under the temporary surface so that it can be kept through this season. Don't throw it away. Use it.

Make 2010 the year that grass is permanent. Announce it now so that it is out there as the transfer window opens. Announce that the grass will remain through the remainder of this season so that Aug 7th is the last time anyone, including current and prospective players will ever see Field Turf.

It can only improve your chances of recruiting your DP (and other talent). It would demonstrate to the players that you actually care about their health and would demonstrate to the fans that you truly are invested in providing championship football in this city.

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 05:42 PM
you forgot to sign you name at the bottom of that letter.

Pookie
06-03-2009, 05:42 PM
^ name's at the top.. :)

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 05:43 PM
okay Mr.Pookie

ilikemusic
06-03-2009, 05:51 PM
By installing a temporary grass surface you are effectively saying a few things.

1. THEIR players (and their knees) are more important than ours
2. Anything can be accomplished if the price is right. Therefore, there is no real hold up to installing grass now it's simply a choice not to
3. The money spent by fans of Real Madrid or other casual soccer fans is more valuable (than the money spent by your regular fans, including those that have sucked up Marlies' tickets for the privilege of seeing this team

Well said.

And #3 is what makes me the most angry.

Torcida
06-03-2009, 05:58 PM
Paul, doesn't respond to letters, haven't you heard?

Velvet Elvis
06-03-2009, 06:16 PM
war ???

sully
06-03-2009, 06:19 PM
I think that some people here could think before they type, insults will just push people away.

I think that the organizational culture at the FO has become stagnant and unimaginative. I want an owner that wants to win as much as the fans do, to take chances and to risk their safe profits for greater profits.

I want them to realise that we are now TFC fans first, and football fans second (Real madrid is great..but winning the league is a bigger priority).

I want them to realise that while you have given us logical reasons why there is no grass yet, it's hard to believe that you are doing everything everyday to make it happen.

I want them to realise that we want the best players possible. You have had ample time to use the DP option and we have the salary room.

I hope that the FO becomes involved in this discussion again. The FO helped create what we have, the fans are moving forward, the FO could look at what it really wants and either come with us or not.

Super
06-03-2009, 06:41 PM
There is no war between supporters and FO. You'll see this at most clubs in the world: supporters wanting one thing, FO doing another. Sometimes FO will feel the pressure enough to act on some of the things supporters want, but most of the time they have to play a balance game between financial gain and pleasing the supporters. I do not expect our FO to be perfect, but I do feel that we've come to a point where the confidence in the FO has been hurt over a number of issues. Paul, Tom and Mo needs to be more open about the processes of getting what we want (grass, DP, etc.) and if we're not getting any of these they should tell us why. This would help to GREATLY improve the relationship - and we would be a lot easier to deal with as well.

Personally I think that the PR department at TFC needs A LOT of work. Talk to us, let us know what is going on. We're the supporters and invest more of our money and time into the club than anyone else. It's simply the polite thing to do.

jabbronies
06-03-2009, 06:48 PM
There is no war between supporters and FO. You'll see this at most clubs in the world: supporters wanting one thing, FO doing another. Sometimes FO will feel the pressure enough to act on some of the things supporters want, but most of the time they have to play a balance game between financial gain and pleasing the supporters. I do not expect our FO to be perfect, but I do feel that we've come to a point where the confidence in the FO has been hurt over a number of issues. Paul, Tom and Mo needs to be more open about the processes of getting what we want (grass, DP, etc.) and if we're not getting any of these they should tell us why. This would help to GREATLY improve the relationship - and we would be a lot easier to deal with as well.

Personally I think that the PR department at TFC needs A LOT of work. Talk to us, let us know what is going on. We're the supporters and invest more of our money and time into the club than anyone else. It's simply the polite thing to do.


You've hit it on the nose sir.

ilikemusic
06-03-2009, 09:04 PM
war ???

Huh!

Pookie
06-03-2009, 09:05 PM
perhaps "war" was too strong a word but have you read some of the stuff in the "TFC Players and Supporters" thread? Sounded like "war" was an appropriate choice at the time.

Anyways, just looking at the frustrations and business interests from a solution perspective. It's obvious that the current direction isn't the right one.

flatpicker
06-03-2009, 09:08 PM
war ???

Huh!

whaaaat is it good for!?

flatpicker
06-03-2009, 09:10 PM
btw... not a bad job summing up the need for grass Pookie.

TorCanSoc
06-03-2009, 09:13 PM
^LOL. Nothing can be taken seriously on the internets.

What are the odds it blows over for a while after we beat L.A. this weekend?

K1nG
06-03-2009, 09:14 PM
Dear Paul,
1. THEIR players (and their knees) are more important than ours
2. Anything can be accomplished if the price is right. Therefore, there is no real hold up to installing grass now it's simply a choice not to
3. The money spent by fans of Real Madrid or other casual soccer fans is more valuable (than the money spent by your regular fans, including those that have sucked up Marlies' tickets for the privilege of seeing this team

PENSION PLAN PUPPETS

Hooligan69
06-03-2009, 09:15 PM
PENSION PLAN PUPPETS

100% truth.

Bluenose13
06-03-2009, 09:32 PM
There is no war between supporters and FO. You'll see this at most clubs in the world: supporters wanting one thing, FO doing another. Sometimes FO will feel the pressure enough to act on some of the things supporters want, but most of the time they have to play a balance game between financial gain and pleasing the supporters. I do not expect our FO to be perfect, but I do feel that we've come to a point where the confidence in the FO has been hurt over a number of issues. Paul, Tom and Mo needs to be more open about the processes of getting what we want (grass, DP, etc.) and if we're not getting any of these they should tell us why. This would help to GREATLY improve the relationship - and we would be a lot easier to deal with as well.

Personally I think that the PR department at TFC needs A LOT of work. Talk to us, let us know what is going on. We're the supporters and invest more of our money and time into the club than anyone else. It's simply the polite thing to do.Excellent post :thumbsup:

TFC Cityboy
06-03-2009, 10:14 PM
There is no war between supporters and FO. You'll see this at most clubs in the world: supporters wanting one thing, FO doing another. Sometimes FO will feel the pressure enough to act on some of the things supporters want, but most of the time they have to play a balance game between financial gain and pleasing the supporters. I do not expect our FO to be perfect, but I do feel that we've come to a point where the confidence in the FO has been hurt over a number of issues. Paul, Tom and Mo needs to be more open about the processes of getting what we want (grass, DP, etc.) and if we're not getting any of these they should tell us why. This would help to GREATLY improve the relationship - and we would be a lot easier to deal with as well.

Personally I think that the PR department at TFC needs A LOT of work. Talk to us, let us know what is going on. We're the supporters and invest more of our money and time into the club than anyone else. It's simply the polite thing to do.

and can anyone explain what Michelle Lissel does to earn her salary as Communications Director?

RedMAN127
06-03-2009, 10:25 PM
I appreciate the attempt at a rational discussion on this issue, but in fairness, Paul seems to be supportive of grass, and provided a good perspective on the challenges (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=542662#post542662):

"The right solution long term for Toronto FC is a $5Million investment (just at BMO, not including the cost of relocating all the community obligations). Add to that a 12 month maintenance program. That includes underground heading, moisture and air control, drainage, etc. And when we have that...ideally no one plays or trains on that field. It ends up getting used 20 days a year. I'm not sure we can sell that to the city...but thats what we want. Anything less represents a compromise (and a liklihood). So I put this in the "be careful what you wish for" category. Sorry - off topic I know. But having grass for this match demonstrates that if we want to play with the big boys we still have to make some changes."

I think the RM angst may be a different issue, I don't recall any issues with the other friendlies when they were played mid-season, and while moving the league match sucks, I think its the cost that is really at issue (and still speculative).

Based on Pauls comments, would the SG's and unaffiliated supporters be more usefull pushing the city for real turf?

Pookie
06-04-2009, 07:29 AM
Quite honestly, I find the above quote by Paul to be disingenuous for a number of reasons.

Cost
Seattle pegged the cost to install an NFL quality natural grass surface at Qwest Field in the area of $1.8M. But hey, I'm not getting the quotes though you might want to call the guys Seattle called and see if they can do it a little cheaper. That's minor but sounds a little high.

Usage
The biggest issue I have with is the downplaying of potential revenue at just 20 home dates. I'm not sure if the intention is to play up the cost and downplay the revenue/usage but we weren't born yesterday.

A natural grass surface will contribute to more usage. While not daily rentals, consider:

- by signing players who would otherwise avoid our plastic surface, you might actually qualify for a playoff (or Champions league) thereby generating additional revenue
- The FIFA U20 event reportedly generated $900k in revenue for the city. How many other national events could you book if you had a suitable surface? Would our World Cup Qualifier have gone to Montreal if you had grass?
- If you can attract teams of the calibre of Real Madrid but needed grass to get them, could that not be a more regular occurrence? I haven't figured out how much you will make off it but I imagine it's more than the $150/hr generated by field rentals

This is more than just 20 dates. There is a competitive advantage you have over other Canadian cities that will soon be your competition. Vancouver is coming. If the come with grass, will they not be in a better position to attract these big events? Become Canada's National Soccer Stadium?

Forget Vancouver, Montreal has a grass surface and just needs to build seats. They are in the Eastern Time Zone. Ottawa's MLS included a stadium with grass and they are also in the Eastern Time Zone. Seriously, you guys want to lose to Eugene Melnyk?

"Hard to sell this to the city"
The claim you "can't sell that to the city" is bogus. Joe Pantalone, the Deputy Mayor was quoted just yesterday saying "We are not averse to grass. We actually think there is a lot of merit to it. But for that to happen, MLSEL must satisfy a lot of conditions."

Those conditions are that you have to shell out money now to provide an alternative facility.

How hard would it be to take the field turf over to Lamport Stadium as a temporary solution until the Lakeshore project is completed?

You've already demonstrated a willingness to tackle the logistics in moving rentals around (I know as my U8 team rental was bumped for a corporate partner... though we did find another time... thanks CJ). You've also tackled the logistics in moving around an MLS game and rescheduling the lives of 20,000 fans.

There is a solution here that works for the city, the team and the fans. Moving to grass contributes to the quality of play immediately and expands the number of players you can target. It gives you additional business opportunities, which the city shares in.

You profit, they profit and the fans might actually start to believe you care about winning as much as they do.

Fort York Redcoat
06-04-2009, 07:35 AM
Well written and a far better tone than most in the last couple days but in the end nothing new.

But send it. Can't hurt. Good Effort.

scots17
06-04-2009, 07:36 AM
haha, we're going to play REAL MADRID and we can't even get through USL teams :rolleyes:

Maple Leaf Red
06-04-2009, 08:20 AM
PENSION PLAN PUPPETS
These guys?
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/

__wowza
06-04-2009, 04:17 PM
now, im not a RBP member, but i also don't wanna hear any of that "well get the fuck off the board then" talk. RPB's are supporters, and although I don't have season tickets, i'm shelling out an assload to see these guys play every season as a result of that.

in regards to the boycott that's being called for, all i can say is that if it's going to be done, it's gotta be done right. RPB speak for the most loyal and rabid of all TFC, hell even MLS fans. that needs to be remembered, because a protest from you speaks for all of the fans in red, so onto my thoughts. i know my posts can be long as hell, so be patient with me..


think of what you're boycotting:
i've heard a lot of talk over the RM game, the turf, the cost of concessions, cummins, mo, the standard of play, the CBC, MLSE, MLS, etc, etc, etc. if you're going to boycott, you need to pick what your boycotting. anything less will make you look messy and disorganized. that seems to be the way this is headed. look at the boards, pick your battles, stand united on them, and stop trying to wage wars on all fronts. are you mad at the city for the turf? MLSE for the FO?

think of how you're boycotting:
there's also been a lot of talk about what's exactly going to happen to boycott what's been happening to the reds, but nothings held firm yet. are you walking out after the anthem? or you waiting outside and going to jacks? are you wearing bags over your heads and sitting still? there's a game on saturday and if you're going to strike, then you need to start planning now, because you have a little over 48 hours to plan a protest and successfully execute it. if it isn't done correctly, then your protest will be in vein and make it look like the fans don't even know what they want. contacting media sources the night before a protest will yield you NOTHING, so let them know what you want ahead of time, and when they can see it.

structure your arguements:
know who your enemy is. i've seen a lot of fingers pointed in a lot of directions and i think it's about time that someone with a bit of knowledge as to what's going on / whose fault it is needs to step forward and lead. a chains only as strong as it's weekend link, so if you have a few fans running around cussing out cummins for organizing the RM game, then it just makes us all look sloppy.

keep it civil:
i think the worst part is how we've all been coming across. no matter what anyone says, it's true, the reds haven't lived up to their potential. they have the livest audience in the MLS, constant sellouts and we're getting beat by USL teams and scoring a goal a game tops. i think our main message is "look, we support the organization, and a supporter is a supporter through good and bad, but your organization seems to have absolutly no intent to fix any of this". if it sounds like it's an abusive relationship, its because that's what it's turning into. so do us all a favour echo the frustration, not the anger, because no one likes to listen to anger, no matter what the cause is.

AL-MO
06-04-2009, 04:19 PM
Do you offer courses on how to properly boycott? If so I am interested in enrolling. ;)

AL-MO
06-04-2009, 04:21 PM
With that said you make some good points.

__wowza
06-04-2009, 04:29 PM
With that said you make some good points.

if you were in a punk band back in highschool, itd come natrually lol.

TorCanSoc
06-04-2009, 04:34 PM
To this point... have we been boycotting boycots?

Krasno.pL.
06-04-2009, 04:37 PM
i just want to see somthing bright for this weekend,

james
06-04-2009, 05:46 PM
well ive been saying since like day 1, we as a group are very disorganized.

Last year loads of people said they were gonna wear black and sit down and be quiet at the All-Star game but we all know how terrible that worked out. Know one even knew what we were protesting for, was it the grass issue? The bad play on the field? Keeping Argos out of BMO? it was a mess last year. Worst protest ever, if you can even call it one.

IF you gonna do it get organized. Closest we came to having a good protest was in year 1 when team Canada played Cost Rica and thousands of people in the south end had black t-shirts saying "Sack the CSA".

I dont see a point on protesting this week tho....if anything protest at the Real Madrid game, gives you lots of time to get organized to. And for me the main issues would be the high ticket prices along with the fact that they gave Real Madrid real grass in a heart beat but still havent given grass for TFC who play there week in and week out!

Canadian Blue
06-05-2009, 09:02 AM
If you guys are no longer planning to walk out then I think it would be more effective to actually "sit" and be quiet throughout the game. Protesting in front of Gate 4 post game will not send a message to the rest of the fans that may not realize the issues. Seeing the ususally raucous supporters section sitting and being dead quiet would definately raise questions.

__wowza
06-05-2009, 09:06 AM
well ive been saying since like day 1, we as a group are very disorganized.

Last year loads of people said they were gonna wear black and sit down and be quiet at the All-Star game but we all know how terrible that worked out. Know one even knew what we were protesting for, was it the grass issue? The bad play on the field? Keeping Argos out of BMO? it was a mess last year. Worst protest ever, if you can even call it one.

IF you gonna do it get organized. Closest we came to having a good protest was in year 1 when team Canada played Cost Rica and thousands of people in the south end had black t-shirts saying "Sack the CSA".

I dont see a point on protesting this week tho....if anything protest at the Real Madrid game, gives you lots of time to get organized to. And for me the main issues would be the high ticket prices along with the fact that they gave Real Madrid real grass in a heart beat but still havent given grass for TFC who play there week in and week out!


well, jack just handed down the I-ffical ruling for the RBP's stance: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=14157. here's hoping folks actually stick to it. i'd still like to see an official stance on what's actually being boycotted, mostly for media outlets and the less knowledgeble. casual fans and locals are more likely to get behind one cause (grass, sacking FO, etc) then fifty, so looking at a ripple effect (sacking the FO) would probably be the best. you change whose up front you change the dynamic of the team as a whole.

alternately, a protest like that could be shitting too close to where we all eat, but management sweep or no management sweep, folks here have their variable pick of the litter in the complaints department. i'm sure they'll find a common ground on something.

905shmick
06-05-2009, 09:16 AM
Here's why a boycott wont happen: Most people are there for a party, not to support the team. Buy less beer? That might get in the way of the party! No colours but chanting and drums is going to be in full force? That'll show em!

Sparta
06-05-2009, 09:16 AM
I just want to state something that i believe in

For whatever the side -- either boycott or not -- this is not the issue i want to tackle

The issue is to do it or not - half assing it is weak

I have worked in many unions and associations and this is definetly not the right course of action -- it is contrary to each others actions

We say no banners

BUT

We are going to chant

To me this is - contrary

We say no colours or mlse gear -- yet the players are wearing them and we ARE STILL CHANTING

So we look like a bunch of regular Joes that now all the chants and support the same atmosphere as if we had our jersey on

The atmosphere has not changed -- and regular joes and mlse wont notice anything

MLSE 1 - 0 Supporters

From what I heard, the NEE are walking -- NOT THAT I AM FOR THAT -- but i am sure some disagreed from their group BUT THEY STAYED TOGETHER and are strong united

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE DECISION -- just do it properly

If we want to ban concessions -- ban it -- if the 13th is the target - make it the target for everything

What we are doing tomorrow is personally nothing -- other than the end of the game protest

If we decide to do nothing -- THAT IS FINE TOO -- save it for when we are ALL on board

If we decide to chant -- let us bring colours, jerseys and banners -- or if we decide not to -- no jerseys, colours, banners or chanting

Maybe i am confused -- just need to know what no jerseys, colours or banners WILL do if we chant, jump our asses off --

who wins

Please dont tell me the players -- judging by DeRos comments -- he wants us to make a banner inregards to grass --lets stand by him -- those flags we have are for the players not management -

Its just too grey -- there was a post on another thread about how to protest -- he must work in a union -lol -- but serious -- thats how effective protest work

If its true what NEE is doing -- my hats off to them BECAUSE THEY ALL AGREED ON SOMETHING OR FOLLOWED ONE PRINCIPLE THAT RULED

I am not saying that we should walk or not -- i am saying lets do this right

either stay and chant with jerseys and beer or stay quiet with no beer no colours no banners and no chanting

Thats just my 2 cents -- please someone tell me to keep my 2 cents -- lol

Cuz
06-05-2009, 09:19 AM
I think the decision to boycott concessions is an excellent idea! But I still think there should be some sort of visual protest by the supporters. I realize we do have a team to support and we do need those three points just like on any other day. But if no one understands why we are boycotting then we will never be able to convey our message.

Anyone have any ideas aside from walking out? I don't think that is going to work the way we want it. It would be a grande display but I don't think it would show the right one to the players.

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 09:20 AM
Some interesting points.

Chevy
06-05-2009, 09:20 AM
I'm not exactly sure what the protest is for, but I will assume is a combination of the two main ones - the Madrid fiasco and the general poor play of the team.

Hoping that it is clarified before Saturday, I think that the plan is appropriate - support the boys as usual but in such a way that they realize something is up. And gathering at Gate 4 after sends a strong message to management.

grizzle
06-05-2009, 09:21 AM
There are definitely some holes in the suggested plan of action. If you really want to hurt them, you gotta do it where it hurts them... their profits.

"We will reduce our in-stadium spending. I know not everyone will boycott beer, but try buying one instead of two, or two instead of three. We will aim for a full-on concessions boycott, but we also need to build it up and try to get as many people on board as we can. We will aim for the June 13th game as the 100% boycott."

If it is a boycott spending should be stopped completely.. I don't see why you need to "build up" to that. Just drink before the game.

Other ideas... all dress in black, make t-shirts that people around the stadium will see, etc.

I thought the original ideas of walking out and no chanting was much better, but going the half-assed approach is only going to get you a half-assed response.

olegunnar
06-05-2009, 09:22 AM
What happened to the RPB are spineless thread? I guess Arnie does know best.

Thanks douchebags for selling out your fellow supporters. It's all good though, PB will keep you on speed dial and you get to talk to the players and have your little meetings that make you feel oh so important. Yay for you. Tough shit for everyone else.

I guess the postive in all of this is that it's finally official. The south end lives in the house...the rest of us live in the field.

pubboy
06-05-2009, 09:23 AM
Must say i tend to agree. Totally understand the no team colours etc, however the majority of the stadium will still be red - therefore not sure of the impact thsi will have, especially as there will still be drums and chanting. All or nothing is only way the suits will even notice.

MisterMacphisto
06-05-2009, 09:23 AM
MLSE 1 - 0 RPB

Fixed

Azerban
06-05-2009, 09:24 AM
if you can't go a single game without a (or three) 13 dollar beer(s) you are a giant baby

sorry

fetajr
06-05-2009, 09:24 AM
protest like the tamils, stop the gardiner in front of the stadium!

elvis
06-05-2009, 09:24 AM
I agree, doesn't seem to make sense to chant - especially bringing a drum.

Bluenose13
06-05-2009, 09:25 AM
FixedHere comes the NEE rhetoric :rolleyes:

grizzle
06-05-2009, 09:26 AM
I agree... I just said pretty similar thing in the other thread.

Azerban
06-05-2009, 09:26 AM
mick of vodka before the game or a tall boy of mediocre beer with a shit lid during

hmmmm choices are tough

Bluenose13
06-05-2009, 09:26 AM
The protest is aimed at the FO & not the players that are in the middle of a play-off race.

grizzle
06-05-2009, 09:27 AM
protest like the tamils, stop the gardiner in front of the stadium!

You actually might be on to something... block the access to the parking lots ;)

Richard D
06-05-2009, 09:28 AM
Bottom line, best way to express your disappointment is with your wallet. Its the only way a corporation will listen. All other ways dont mean shit. At the end of each month when the decision makers meet for month end reviews, make them look at the printout and say "Damn, our sales are ass this month, what should we do." A good 4 months of this (basically the rest of the season) will make them act during the off season. Grass, a DP, etc.

Its the only way. If you want change, express it by not spending anything at the stadium. The season tickets are the most they'll get from me until shit changes in the fans favor.

End of rant.

Azerban
06-05-2009, 09:28 AM
gotta give it to NEE if they do it, they stick to their convictions

Sparta
06-05-2009, 09:29 AM
The protest is aimed at the FO & not the players that are in the middle of a play-off race.

I have a shirt that says DeRo on it -- can i bring it -- i am supporting him ????????

is that a legitamite point -- especially since its a knock off and purchased not through mlse

Kevvv
06-05-2009, 09:29 AM
Thanks douchebags for selling out your fellow supporters.


What's the plan for Usector, they walking out?

__wowza
06-05-2009, 09:30 AM
i completely agree. the game day atmosphere is split.
personally, i dont think the players will take ANY type of boycott to heart. if they don't finish, (here's looking at you vitti) they know they dont finish. trust me, ive played soccer in highschool, theres no sitting down and smuggly saying "i did awesome today!" when you know you didn't. the players feel bad, they feel pain, they know they need help, and they know that the fans will never target them unless they aren't giving it their best to our club.

i think the boycott should be total:

no signs
no colours
no chants
no concessions

the players are in a very fragile situation. they can only be so outspoken before the management comes down on them, hard. so if we watch the entire game, backs to the field, they won't take it personally. they'll know that the fans aren't turning their backs on the game, just on what the club is doing. they know that whatever we push for will help THEIR game and THEIR team, so i really think we should stop being so sensitive to who we piss off, because from what ive seen in the past few days, no ones safe anymore.

we need to set our sights on something that makes an impact, and we're not anywhere close to that goal yet.

pubboy
06-05-2009, 09:30 AM
The protest is aimed at the FO & not the players that are in the middle of a play-off race.

Understood and totally agree, however a couple of hundred people not wearing red out of 20,000 will not even be noticed by the FO. The march at the end of the game probably will though, so hope that comes off.

:scarf::scarf::scarf:

jrober38
06-05-2009, 09:30 AM
I agree with all of the points proposed by the opening poster. Simply put, there isn't enough time to organize a protest that will actually get anyones attention as there are too many issues on the front burner right now and not enough people on board. I believe that if fans actually want to make a difference they need to focus on one issue and take it on full charge over the next week in which we have two home games.

First off, I think that at this coming game the issues should be brought forward by staying at the game instead of leaving after the anthems. With the use of banners, signs, chanting, whatever, an ultimatum needs to be put on the franchise. If tge issue is that Mo must go, then make the focus on trying to explain that if changes aren't made immediately the next game will be properly boycotted in the sense that no one will show up. If its a different issue, then focus on that.

Second, if over the course of the next week changes aren't made regarding the issue protested during tomorrow's game, then take a hard line stance and don't show up to the following game a week from tomorrow. I'm of the opinion that the only way to properly get MLSE attention is to leave the stands empty which in turn definitely will hurt concession sales as no one can buy $10 beers if they're not there to buy them.

I think that by spending tomorrow discussing the issues at the game and protesting them by use of banners, signs and chants, if the organization does not comply then the only option is to follow through with a true boycott which means to completely cut yourself off from the entity that is being boycotted.

Sparta
06-05-2009, 09:30 AM
The protest is aimed at the FO & not the players that are in the middle of a play-off race.


Lets face it FO aint going to care -- as long as we buy there booze

Lets hold off then -- chant our asses of -- its for the team -- and then after the game -- head to gate 4 -- or go the other drastic way

MG42
06-05-2009, 09:31 AM
I agree with sparta. do it all or do nothing. Just my opinion.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 09:32 AM
how many people saw the Newcastle away support after they were relegated, singing their hearts out for their team and thought, what a bunch of sheep, I bet they love ass fuckings? My kind of support says you ignore business on game day and deal with it at other times.

Other people think differently and thats why its so tough to find a common idea in this group. Too much culturally ingrained tradition. That and the fact that we ARENT a union, and no not follow the rules and regs of one in any way

Jack
06-05-2009, 09:32 AM
People couldn't sit quietly for the All-Star game when TFC wasn't even playing.

olegunnar
06-05-2009, 09:32 AM
What's the plan for Usector, they walking out?

Who? Sector?

and miss the party? doubt it

__wowza
06-05-2009, 09:33 AM
a lot of those ideas are being discussed here:
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=14161

mostly great points.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 09:35 AM
gotta give it to NEE if they do it, they stick to their convictions

its a lot easier when you are small. And when have we not?

Sparta
06-05-2009, 09:35 AM
how many people saw the Newcastle away support after they were relegated, singing their hearts out for their team and thought, what a bunch of sheep, I bet they love ass fuckings? My kind of support says you ignore business on game day and deal with it at other times.

Other people think differently and thats why its so tough to find a common idea in this group. Too much culturally ingrained tradition. That and the fact that we ARENT a union, and no not follow the rules and regs of one in any way

But we are part of a group that wants to be united??? no???

so its an association then?? right??

if not -- then everyone will do whatever they want and nothing will get accomplished

Do you like it if 113 start a different chant than 112 at the same time? -- no -- same shit applies here

Chevy
06-05-2009, 09:37 AM
Lets face it FO aint going to care -- as long as we buy there booze

Lets hold off then -- chant our asses of -- its for the team -- and then after the game -- head to gate 4 -- or go the other drastic way


+1 - you have to support the boys, but at the same time let them know that we are not pleased with their recent play (i.e. no flags or banners). The gathering outside will get the attention of management. Simple.

So, what exactly are we protesting again? (serious question).

Jack
06-05-2009, 09:37 AM
What happened to the RPB are spineless thread? I guess Arnie does know best.

Thanks douchebags for selling out your fellow supporters. It's all good though, PB will keep you on speed dial and you get to talk to the players and have your little meetings that make you feel oh so important. Yay for you. Tough shit for everyone else.

I guess the postive in all of this is that it's finally official. The south end lives in the house...the rest of us live in the field.
So in three days we needed to come to a consensus on an organized plan and put it into execution.

This is the first step. This process is not a one-off.

It's the start. We will see where we go from here.

The idea is to put on pressure and that is being achieved. Should we burn down the stadium? Would that satisfy you?

What is the point of protest? To have your concerns heard and addressed. That is already being accomplished without having even started the actual protest.

But hey, if you want to burn something down, go right ahead.

OneLoveOneEric
06-05-2009, 09:37 AM
This will be like the All Star Game. 1000 people or so will notice this, and the rest of the stadium won't even know it's happened.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 09:40 AM
But we are part of a group that wants to be united??? no???

so its an association then?? right??

if not -- then everyone will do whatever they want and nothing will get accomplished

Do you like it if 113 start a different chant than 112 at the same time? -- no -- same shit applies here

no it doesnt apply here. This isnt a union, or a political group. No one person should make decisions for us, no matter how good a leader that person may be. No executive should make a decision that we then all do without discussion or a vote. this has all turned into a giant role play scenario.

Boris
06-05-2009, 09:40 AM
This will be like the All Star Game. 1000 people or so will notice this, and the rest of the stadium won't even know it's happened.

thats why its important we make people know what we are doing.
This will be done in the various forms of communication we have available to us

Kevvv
06-05-2009, 09:40 AM
Who? Sector?

and miss the party? doubt it

Just trying to clarify, so when you say



...selling out your fellow supporters.

you mean NEE? Not trying to start something, but "fellow supporters" implies that only RPB is not on board, where in fact it appears it's both groups.

Chevy
06-05-2009, 09:41 AM
This will be like the All Star Game. 1000 people or so will notice this, and the rest of the stadium won't even know it's happened.

Honestly, who gives a shit if everyone else in the stadium notices? For a group that consistently bitches about "the other 19,000" we sure care a lot about what they think.

Two groups have to notice this protest - the players (by not bringing flags and wearing colours) and management (through the gathering after the game).

Jack
06-05-2009, 09:43 AM
Everyone's an expert and everyone knows what the best course of action is.

So who amongst you will motivate and organize a large group of people, up to 500 strong, to take a similar course of action.

I will gladly facilitate for you, if you are willing to step up and do so.

OneLoveOneEric
06-05-2009, 09:44 AM
^^^And I don't think either wil notice. Decent chance of the players getting the point. Management because of people outside the stadium after the game? No way.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 09:45 AM
and management will look and say to themselves..."hey look, they didnt wear red today".......and then go home after work

bgnewf
06-05-2009, 09:50 AM
Posted this over on U Sector. My 2 cents

This whole argument centers around one concept that seems to split the supporters into two seperate camps. Those of us who feel that we should "support" the team and those of us that feel that "support" should not be blind and that loyalty is a two way street.

I agree and disagree with both sides. I want to support my club because I choose to... We can't win em all and we never will. I want to go the games and have fun cheering wildly in 113 with you all. I am am pissed off with the club (including the effort of a lot of players, the schedule/friendly shenanigans, Mo Johnston, take your pick) and in a lot of respects I feel our loyalty and devotion is not matched by the club in the manner it should be.

I like to think this issue through by using an analogy of soldiers at war. Some think if you do not support the war you are not supporting the troops risking their lives. Others feel they should have the right to criticize a conflict and that by doing so they are supporting the troops as well. Right and wrong there on both sides.

There are ways to voice displeasure that I think can please people on both sides here.

The main one would be to not use the concessions. If you want to hit the club where it hurts and want to let them know that you are pissed off do not buy that chip butty or over-priced pint. Get a poutine and a jug at The Gate(in your cases Shoeless I presume :drinking:) instead.

Signs/Tifo's expressing our displeasure are another positive way to get our points across.

But walkouts, no chanting, and my brief flirtation with a bag over my head are not the answer. Picking our spots to criticize while still cheering TFC on will be the path I choose.

I hope most of the south end joins me.

ua-kozak_TFC
06-05-2009, 09:50 AM
Must say i tend to agree. Totally understand the no team colours etc, however the majority of the stadium will still be red - therefore not sure of the impact thsi will have, especially as there will still be drums and chanting. All or nothing is only way the suits will even notice.
That is true.. but The supporter section is the heart of the stadium and people always look there it;s the center of attention so if we are Quiet then it will resonate throughout the stadium....

You can;t control everything.. people are bound to come in uniform but the importance is that The South End isn;t as loud... that will send the message, it would be totally awesome if tehre was no cheers at all... total silence...

Mikey
06-05-2009, 09:51 AM
Why is everyone looking at everyone else to be validated on how they feel about shitty team play and being screwed over by ML$E on the friendly tickets...?

trane
06-05-2009, 09:51 AM
^ Jack, while I admire your willingness to listen, at some point when leadership has made a decision, they discussion on the subject shuold be cut. The decision has been made people have to stop debating it. After this weekend we can debate what next, if anything. You have made a decision people need to live with it, and stop bitching.

Chevy
06-05-2009, 09:52 AM
+1 to bgnewf. Support the boys. I could understand walking out on them if there were 11 Laurent Robert's on the pitch, but it isn't the case.

nobodybeatsthewiz
06-05-2009, 09:52 AM
Here comes the NEE rhetoric :rolleyes:


i think you mean "gospel"

Bluenose13
06-05-2009, 09:55 AM
how many people saw the Newcastle away support after they were relegated, singing their hearts out for their team and thought, what a bunch of sheep, I bet they love ass fuckings? My kind of support says you ignore business on game day and deal with it at other times.

Other people think differently and thats why its so tough to find a common idea in this group. Too much culturally ingrained tradition. That and the fact that we ARENT a union, and no not follow the rules and regs of one in any wayThat is why we will sing & support the boys on the field & then protest the FO after the game. If we don't get there attention this week, we step it up next week, it doesn't have to be all or nothing this week.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 09:57 AM
^^ Agreed completely....what the hell does not wearing red have to do with anything....it's the most pointless addition.

Ageroo
06-05-2009, 09:57 AM
^ Jack, while I admire your willingness to listen, at some point when leadership has made a decision, they discussion on the subject shuold be cut. The decision has been made people have to stop debating it. After this weekend we can debate what next, if anything. You have made a decision people need to live with it, and stop bitching.

+1

A course of action has been decided upon......people need to stop thinking about how the 19000 other people in the stadium will view what we are doing. This is the first step in hopes that changes can be made.

Trane is correct.....after this weekend's match we will take stock and see what the next course of action will be. For now, let us support the decisions made and move forward. I hope all will support the course of action to the best of their abilities. We need to all be strong as TFC supporters. :scarf:

__wowza
06-05-2009, 09:57 AM
dear god, someone just make a super-ultra-maximum-THIS-IS-WHAT-THE-RPB-ARE-DOIN thread. the game is tomorrow, you need, at least AT LEAST 48 hours to mount a successful flash mob, let alone protest. jack has already laid down a plan, it's either being followed or not. its going to look sloppy if we dont get all togheter on this, but we also all got our own ways to boycott.

Chevy
06-05-2009, 09:58 AM
^^ Agreed completely....what the hell does not wearing red have to do with anything....it's the most pointless addition.

I think not wearing red is designed to get the players attention but still allow support (compared to a walkout).

nobodybeatsthewiz
06-05-2009, 09:59 AM
sparta, to me, hits the nail on the head. grey areas just confuses the fans and actually causes tension within the group and splits things. ill give it to nee as well - they do stick to their guns and go united.

true what h-bomb said though - as a larger contingent we need to be more organized in our message and plan it out (again, going back to what sparta was getting at). when we do something it should damn well better be something that even the pissed off 'casual' knows about so he/she can tag along.

i just would hate to see another all-star type situation with fans, not knowing the situation, egging on our guys who are trying to lead a protest resulting in in-fighting in the stands.

Bluenose13
06-05-2009, 09:59 AM
Posted this over on U Sector. My 2 cents

This whole argument centers around one concept that seems to split the supporters into two seperate camps. Those of us who feel that we should "support" the team and those of us that feel that "support" should not be blind and that loyalty is a two way street.

I agree and disagree with both sides. I want to support my club because I choose to... We can't win em all and we never will. I want to go the games and have fun cheering wildly in 113 with you all. I am am pissed off with the club (including the effort of a lot of players, the schedule/friendly shenanigans, Mo Johnston, take your pick) and in a lot of respects I feel our loyalty and devotion is not matched by the club in the manner it should be.

I like to think this issue through by using an analogy of soldiers at war. Some think if you do not support the war you are not supporting the troops risking their lives. Others feel they should have the right to criticize a conflict and that by doing so they are supporting the troops as well. Right and wrong there on both sides.

There are ways to voice displeasure that I think can please people on both sides here.

The main one would be to not use the concessions. If you want to hit the club where it hurts and want to let them know that you are pissed off do not buy that chip butty or over-priced pint. Get a poutine and a jug at The Gate(in your cases Shoeless I presume :drinking:) instead.

Signs/Tifo's expressing our displeasure are another positive way to get our points across.

But walkouts, no chanting, and my brief flirtation with a bag over my head are not the answer. Picking our spots to criticize while still cheering TFC on will be the path I choose.

I hope most of the south end joins me.It would also be nice if Usector joined there fellow supporters at Gate 4 to show there displeasure instead of taking pot shots at there fellow supporters. Also the 24 minute article was disgraceful.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 09:59 AM
why dont we just tell the players. like i said earlier...it's turned into a giant role play

pubboy
06-05-2009, 10:00 AM
That is true.. but The supporter section is the heart of the stadium and people always look there it;s the center of attention so if we are Quiet then it will resonate throughout the stadium....

You can;t control everything.. people are bound to come in uniform but the importance is that The South End isn;t as loud... that will send the message, it would be totally awesome if tehre was no cheers at all... total silence...

Exactly - that's my point. The plan is to cheer and shout as much as usual, but not to wear official merchandise or wave flags or banners. I dont think this will have any impact, or at least not as much as if there was no cheering and singing. I 100% agree that if the southend is quiet, everyone will notice and look. A couple of well worded banners will show everyone exactly what the protest is about. As someone else mentioned, the players will understand, and probably already know that something will happen from reading these boards.

ua-kozak_TFC
06-05-2009, 10:00 AM
Posted this over on U Sector. My 2 cents

This whole argument centers around one concept that seems to split the supporters into two seperate camps. Those of us who feel that we should "support" the team and those of us that feel that "support" should not be blind and that loyalty is a two way street.

I agree and disagree with both sides. I want to support my club because I choose to... We can't win em all and we never will. I want to go the games and have fun cheering wildly in 113 with you all. I am am pissed off with the club (including the effort of a lot of players, the schedule/friendly shenanigans, Mo Johnston, take your pick) and in a lot of respects I feel our loyalty and devotion is not matched by the club in the manner it should be.

I like to think this issue through by using an analogy of soldiers at war. Some think if you do not support the war you are not supporting the troops risking their lives. Others feel they should have the right to criticize a conflict and that by doing so they are supporting the troops as well. Right and wrong there on both sides.

There are ways to voice displeasure that I think can please people on both sides here.

The main one would be to not use the concessions. If you want to hit the club where it hurts and want to let them know that you are pissed off do not buy that chip butty or over-priced pint. Get a poutine and a jug at The Gate(in your cases Shoeless I presume :drinking:) instead.

Signs/Tifo's expressing our displeasure are another positive way to get our points across.

But walkouts, no chanting, and my brief flirtation with a bag over my head are not the answer. Picking our spots to criticize while still cheering TFC on will be the path I choose.

I hope most of the south end joins me.
You bring some good points yet i think that consesion isn;t going to hurt the MLSE... because maximum you;ll get 2 or 3 k of wild fans who visit the boards or are close to the Suporter Groups uphold of buying at the consession, won;t stop the other 18k fans of buying stuff...
BUT... What makes this profitable is the atmosphere... many people come just to hear the roudiness of the fans and feel the stadium tremble on everycorner kick. That whhat keep the 60% of average joes comming back (because we haven;t shown much on the field) If we CUT OFF that tap... then we really would hit the MLSE where it hurts most...
I think creating a MORGUE like atmosphere with a black banner sending them a message at the end of the game. would send a clear message to the MLSE..

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 10:01 AM
how many people saw the Newcastle away support after they were relegated, singing their hearts out for their team and thought, what a bunch of sheep, I bet they love ass fuckings? My kind of support says you ignore business on game day and deal with it at other times.

Other people think differently and thats why its so tough to find a common idea in this group. Too much culturally ingrained tradition. That and the fact that we ARENT a union, and no not follow the rules and regs of one in any way

Sorry brother, you are a bit off here. Newcastle supporters had two massive rally's/demonstrations during the course of the season. And much of it was before the game and during. It made the National News. The Newcastle Supporters group is only two years old, and they were able to get the attention of the national media to express their concerns. It was huge here. It can be done - it just requires a steadfast nature.

They sang at the end - because their fate was sealed.

GabrielHurl
06-05-2009, 10:01 AM
i think you mean "gospel"

My first and last post on this

We're not telling anyone how to protest - you are doing your thing and we are doing ours

Protest as you see fit

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 10:04 AM
Also having the rally after the game will reduce the affect. Before the game there is the chance of dialogue with the "common fan", now it will be the same people doing what they do with no added influence. I'd be curious to find out who was on the committee, who were the final decision makers? I think there needs to be a strategy that talks to new people... Not the ones who have already bought in to some degree.

nobodybeatsthewiz
06-05-2009, 10:05 AM
My first and last post on this

We're not telling anyone how to protest - you are doing your thing and we are doing ours

Protest as you see fit



gabe, i guess my point on this is that when things arent done to the degree they can be / in unison then fractures among supporters happen. i would love to think that "you do your thing, we'll do ours" would suffice, but it doesnt and the inevitable "more hardcore than thou" or "holier than thou" comes after. :(

__wowza
06-05-2009, 10:05 AM
^ Jack, while I admire your willingness to listen, at some point when leadership has made a decision, they discussion on the subject shuold be cut. The decision has been made people have to stop debating it. After this weekend we can debate what next, if anything. You have made a decision people need to live with it, and stop bitching.

i completely agree. its either all or nothing. united or divided.
however, i think a lot of the frustration thats stemming right now and a lot of the other bickering comes from the fact that a lot of TFC fans dont understand what the protest is supposed to do to get the point across. i think an explanation would help that, from there people can either agree or disagree, but hey, at least theyd understand it.

having said that, im steadfast on the whole "stop bitching" philosophy lol. that decisions been passed down, lines been drawn in the sand already.


on an unrelated note:
i still have access to copies should you guy want a flyer campaign up (in the parking lot before/after the games or what not. i wont be able to do them up for tomorrow, but let me know if it's something the RPB would be needing throughout all of this.

scots17
06-05-2009, 10:05 AM
this is all so lame!! protest this, protest that...

remember when Toronto announced to everyone that we were getting an "MLS" calibre team, and we all shouted for joy??? well now that your expectations have not been met, everyone is crying!!

people didn't exactly fork out a ton on cash for these season tickets...we get what we pay for...

MLSE is our owner, do you see the Leafs or Raps in the play-offs??? nope...but all of our T.O. teams (Jays excluded) sell out, and we make MLSE more money.

but when Barrett isn't scoring, or DeRo is complaining about the surface, or we lose to a "USL" calibre team (which we are at best) the protest this, protest that cheers come into play...

everyone who paid for their tix, did so at their own will...you can either continue to go and SUPPORT THE TEAM, or you can choose to do something else on match day...

or go and wear a black t-shirt, wear a bag on your head, leave the game early, block the parking lots, don't wear your TFC gear, whatever...it's all pretty funny...

question, what did all you people do to keep entertained before TFC came around???? :scarf:

Phil
06-05-2009, 10:06 AM
^ Jack, while I admire your willingness to listen, at some point when leadership has made a decision, they discussion on the subject shuold be cut. The decision has been made people have to stop debating it. After this weekend we can debate what next, if anything. You have made a decision people need to live with it, and stop bitching.

I couldn't agree more.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 10:06 AM
They sang at the end - because their fate was sealed.

they sang at the end because they loved their club, and a retarded owner couldnt change that. I'm glad the group will still be chanting. not wearing red is an arbitrary addition that seems to be needed just so some people feel like we're being extreme enough...i really am surprised by the last few days and how many "i'll do whatevers decided" posts i've seen.

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 10:06 AM
My first and last post on this

We're not telling anyone how to protest - you are doing your thing and we are doing ours

Protest as you see fit


This is not directed at NEE, but a general statement - the inability for all the groups to do something in unison is disappointing. This was a big chance for change.

grizzle
06-05-2009, 10:08 AM
You bring some good points yet i think that consesion isn;t going to hurt the MLSE... because maximum you;ll get 2 or 3 k of wild fans who visit the boards or are close to the Suporter Groups uphold of buying at the consession, won;t stop the other 18k fans of buying stuff...

$40k (2000 x $20 Avg) is noticeable.
$60k (3000 x $20 Avg) is more noticeable.

$20 is probably low on the estimate also. I am pretty sure a large majority of their beer sales are coming from the supporter sections.

FluSH
06-05-2009, 10:09 AM
dear god, someone just make a super-ultra-maximum-THIS-IS-WHAT-THE-RPB-ARE-DOIN thread. the game is tomorrow, you need, at least AT LEAST 48 hours to mount a successful flash mob, let alone protest. jack has already laid down a plan, it's either being followed or not. its going to look sloppy if we dont get all togheter on this, but we also all got our own ways to boycott.


Jack's decision is beign followed.... As he mentioned earlier (not sure if it was in the members area or the public area) it was a difficult choice... However all Team leaders are behind his decision after he announced it. The latter is beign done for the unity of the group... all differances to be set aside...

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 10:09 AM
Everyone's an expert and everyone knows what the best course of action is.

So who amongst you will motivate and organize a large group of people, up to 500 strong, to take a similar course of action.

I will gladly facilitate for you, if you are willing to step up and do so.

I offered my time and experience... You chose not to take me up on it.

__wowza
06-05-2009, 10:10 AM
This is not directed at NEE, but a general statement - the inability for all the groups to do something in unison is disappointing. This was a big chance for change.

agreed: but the RPB are still complaining and thinking of other alternatives. the inability for a single supporters section to stand united is more disturbing, but i'll wait it out until the end of the day to see what happens.

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 10:13 AM
With all due respect on this one, my friend....fuck off.

What's up with that? :noidea:

I offered to help - and in your post you are suggesting that others try to do what you find extremely difficult to do under your time constrains. I was another hand on deck - I offered numerous times. And you tell me to Fuck Off... OK. You are reading something else into this or you may be a bit tired.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 10:14 AM
i'm sorry but the idea that we shouldnt discuss it because it's been decided? where the hell am i? I thought this was a group for thinking humans, not yes men.

__wowza
06-05-2009, 10:15 AM
Jack's decision is beign followed.... As he mentioned earlier (not sure if it was in the members area or the public area) it was a difficult choice... However all Team leaders are behind his decision after he announced it. The latter is beign done for the unity of the group... all differances to be set aside...

10/4: my complaining and what not officially stops now.

Jack
06-05-2009, 10:15 AM
What's up with that? :noidea:

I offered to help - and in your post you are suggesting that others try to do what you find extremely difficult to do under your time constrains. I was another hand on deck - I offered numerous times. And you tell me to Fuck Off... OK. You are reading something else into this or you may be a bit tired.
Sorry. It was knee-jerk and I deleted it right away.

Tough week. :o

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 10:15 AM
Hey - If I was there - I would joint the team. That is not the suggestion. I just wish all the supporters could come to a final conclusion so the message was consistent.

Boris
06-05-2009, 10:16 AM
i'm sorry but the idea that we shouldnt discuss it because it's been decided? where the hell am i? I thought this was a group for thinking humans, not yes men.

people were given time to dicuss it?
all people did was shoot down ideas......

FluSH
06-05-2009, 10:16 AM
agreed: but the RPB are still complaining and thinking of other alternatives. the inability for a single supporters section to stand united is more disturbing, but i'll wait it out until the end of the day to see what happens.


THE RPB are not thinking about other alternatives... I was one of the biggest players in trying to get the walkout or relocation if you will to The Beer Garden. However, once a decision was made... that was it. I will follow. The decision process was not only a fair one, but one that was well thoughtout.

P.S. I just read your last post. Thanks.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 10:17 AM
people didnt just shoot down ideas, there were tonnes of ideas...the problem i have is with the idea that now it's been "decided" that we shouldnt talk about it. come on now.

Boris
06-05-2009, 10:19 AM
fyi - i merged and am merging all thread relating to this topc

__wowza
06-05-2009, 10:19 AM
i'm sorry but the idea that we shouldnt discuss it because it's been decided? where the hell am i? I thought this was a group for thinking humans, not yes men.

i couldnt agree with you more, but at the same time, theres time for talk and a time for action. this has been up for debate ever since the whitecaps netted their second.

its been discussed more coherently since wednesday afternoon. if we keep arguing semantics, we'll be arguing for quite awhile. i think the best course of action is to stick with the plan and make tweaks as we go.

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 10:19 AM
Sorry. It was knee-jerk and I deleted it right away.

Tough week. :o

Thought so - no worries.
Cheers!

tim90
06-05-2009, 10:19 AM
send me mediaguide to fan

Bluenose13
06-05-2009, 10:23 AM
people didnt just shoot down ideas, there were tonnes of ideas...the problem i have is with the idea that now it's been "decided" that we shouldnt talk about it. come on now.Hey Matt.....It's easy to Monday morning quarterback :rolleyes:

This group was completely devided on both ends of the spectrum. Some wanted to do nothing & others wanted to walk out. A lot of people fell somewhere in the middle. All this information was then taken in & a plan that fit the majority of the RPB members views was put into place. Is everyone happy obviously not, was that even a possibility NO. So how about instead of running down RPB & the decisions that were made you take a step back & see that things were done for group unity & we can all move ahead together.

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 10:26 AM
i know things are done for a group. Why aren't we wearing Red? I want to know absolutely every thought process that went into it....because it's obvious we've decided we're politicians now and therefor we deserve to know what our representatives have been thinking....God this whole thing is very disillusioning

DOMIN8R
06-05-2009, 10:28 AM
send me mediaguide to fan

Best post so far.:crazy:

BRed
06-05-2009, 10:28 AM
whaaaat is it good for!?


AbSOlutelY NOTHING!




(now let's move on...)

bgnewf
06-05-2009, 10:30 AM
It would also be nice if Usector joined there fellow supporters at Gate 4 to show there displeasure instead of taking pot shots at there fellow supporters. Also the 24 minute article was disgraceful.

with due respect, how was anything I said a potshot?

Bluenose13
06-05-2009, 10:37 AM
with due respect, how was anything I said a potshot?Sorry......That wasn't directed at you personally, it was directed at the childish comments made on your board towards RPB. Also since Duane is a vocal member of your supporters group & doesn't bother to post here but loves to take snide backhanded potshots at this group, I thought I would let you know I thought his article was disgraceful :D

TFC~Vatreni
06-05-2009, 10:37 AM
Let's give credit all around though. It's tough to please everyone and I feel the compromise made is acceptable. I personally will also not chant and hopefully there won't be any drumming, but everything else is a fair compromise between the people who want to protest and the people who don't.

I also want throw NEE some respect for being a very united group of supporters. Big ups to them.

TFC Tifoso
06-05-2009, 10:42 AM
It would also be nice if Usector joined there fellow supporters at Gate 4 to show there displeasure instead of taking pot shots at there fellow supporters. Also the 24 minute article was disgraceful.

haha are you kidding me? according to the large majority there everything is sunshine and lollipops....

party on Wayne!......party on Garth!

Sparta
06-05-2009, 10:47 AM
anyone know where the "my 2 cents" moved too

TFC~Vatreni
06-05-2009, 10:48 AM
anyone know where the "my 2 cents" moved too

Page 2 of this thread bro. They all merged.

Boris
06-05-2009, 10:50 AM
anyone know where the "my 2 cents" moved too

page 2 - theres not much control in how threads get merged.
Its easier to moderate one very active thread then 5....

cheers

Velvet Elvis
06-05-2009, 10:50 AM
quagmire ... quagmire ... where's the scoop ???

Rudi
06-05-2009, 11:10 AM
haha are you kidding me? according to the large majority there everything is sunshine and lollipops....
Really? You must be reading at a kindergarten level, then.

Here's a quote from our board that sums up the feeling over there (emphasis mine):

I don't really think that anybody arguing against "the issue" (protest) is arguing on the grounds that support should be unconditional (i.e. blind), but are arguing on the grounds that the reason for this protest are not solid, and based on a whole whack of emotions coming off a two week stretch where we've had a league match reschedule for a friendly we can't afford to go to, that will magically see grass at BMO - and two humiliating losses, including one that will likely see the end of a cup run.The prevailing sentiment is that a protest right now is an over-reaction to a single loss (and if you think about it, had Toronto won or even tied on Tuesday, no one would be talking protest, walk-out or whatever). The group has seen its fair share of real BS from ownership over the years, so perhaps the perspective is different.

BTW, I'm not going to answer for the perceived "pot shots", since I did not take any.

Sparta
06-05-2009, 11:14 AM
no it doesnt apply here. This isnt a union, or a political group. No one person should make decisions for us, no matter how good a leader that person may be. No executive should make a decision that we then all do without discussion or a vote. this has all turned into a giant role play scenario.


I am not talking about communism here

A union or association has a head for order and to mediate management and the association -- they bring out views to make our group stronger

Is paying a membership fee almost like an association or union??? hell ya -- what ever colour you paint it-- call it what it is -- members pay a fee and come together to finalize a decision and then vote on it -- SOUNDS LIKE AN ASSOCIATION OR UNION TO ME -- they just use the term RATIFY

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 11:15 AM
So NEE is walking out - RPB passive aggressive approach - US nothing? Is this correct or am I missing something?

H Bomb
06-05-2009, 11:19 AM
that seems to be it

FluSH
06-05-2009, 11:20 AM
So NEE is walking out - RPB passive aggressive approach - US nothing? Is this correct or am I missing something?

What do you mean we aren't doing anything?

Also... RESPECT TO NEE on their movement. A protest is a protest nonetheless... If one day RPB and NEE are united in protest (I hope we don't have to really) the earth will tremble.

Jack
06-05-2009, 11:21 AM
What do you mean we aren't doing anything?

Also... RESPECT TO NEE on their movement. A protest is a protest nonetheless... If one day RPB and NEE are united in protest (I hope we don't have to really) the earth will tremble.
I believe he meant US=U-SEctor ;)

Sparta
06-05-2009, 11:32 AM
Everyone's an expert and everyone knows what the best course of action is.

So who amongst you will motivate and organize a large group of people, up to 500 strong, to take a similar course of action.

I will gladly facilitate for you, if you are willing to step up and do so.


Suck me side ways and hit me over the head with bat -- all this time i had no idea that there was paying members and not paying members -- i thought those where just designations -- i would have loved to join -- (naturegirl hasnt got back to me yet)

I thought all registered users had a say aswell -- but anywho -- this is what i propose and help:

(1) Protest

*no concessions
*no red or uniforms
*no drums
*no capos
*no chanting
*march from go train in stadium chanting protest chants
*rally at gate 4 at the end

watch and resist -- then converse tomorrow night how it went -- and procide from there -- maybe another game too? open forum

OR OR OR OR OR

(2) Do not protest

*chant
*drums
*bring uniforms
*drink
*wait and dont react until everyone is on board and we have a disticnt plan

Put it to a vote to all RPB and registered users - since they are part of the group (atleast what i thought)

Willing to help you out as much as possible Jack

This is solely what i think

I agree with what Flush said that a decision has been made -- which SHOULD be followed -- wish i would have known that it was only for members and then i would have done whatever i had to to get on -- MY IGNORANCE though

But maybe there are others like me

The Kingpin
06-05-2009, 11:35 AM
What do you mean we aren't doing anything?

Also... RESPECT TO NEE on their movement. A protest is a protest nonetheless... If one day RPB and NEE are united in protest (I hope we don't have to really) the earth will tremble.

Yea, sorry. Meant U-Sector. I guess I was dreaming when I thought this would create a common ground. It almost seems to be if one says black the other will say white. It was like this from day one... God those meeting were strenuous at times. Anyway - good luck. And remember, in the meeting with the TFC Front Office, there will be a few empty promises. I hope that the representatives share minutes so all can be certain what has been promised. I'd love to match this up with the eventual delivery.

Rudi
06-05-2009, 11:43 AM
Yea, sorry. Meant U-Sector. I guess I was dreaming when I thought this would create a common ground. It almost seems to be if one says black the other will say white. It was like this from day one... God those meeting were strenuous at times.
There has been a lot of common ground, it's just hard to see from England.

We are allowed to disagree on this issue. Simply disagreeing or choosing not to take part in one "initiative" does not mean that this is the second coming of the Montagues and Capulets.

Honestly, you always wax poetic here about unity and such, but all you actually do is stir the pot.

mastermixer
06-05-2009, 11:44 AM
We're the supporters and invest more of our money and time into the club than anyone else. It's simply the polite thing to do.

Time, yes. no doubt about it. But money is what counts for MLSE and unfortunately supporters seats are the cheapest in the stadium. Maybe they see the dark greys and reds as the more valuable seat holders, which if true is completely out of whack. As a seat holder in a red section, I can almost guarantee that almost all people in that secion can't name half the team on the field.

CretanBull
06-05-2009, 11:50 AM
Time, yes. no doubt about it. But money is what counts for MLSE and unfortunately supporters seats are the cheapest in the stadium. Maybe they see the dark greys and reds as the more valuable seat holders, which if true is completely out of whack. As a seat holder in a red section, I can almost guarantee that almost all people in that secion can't name half the team on the field.

Our members sit everywhere, not just in the South end.

olegunnar
06-05-2009, 12:56 PM
Time, yes. no doubt about it. But money is what counts for MLSE and unfortunately supporters seats are the cheapest in the stadium. Maybe they see the dark greys and reds as the more valuable seat holders, which if true is completely out of whack. As a seat holder in a red section, I can almost guarantee that almost all people in that secion can't name half the team on the field.

While that may be true that's not the whole story (which is what I think you're referencing)

The product doesn't deserve the popularity. What has created the popularity is the atmosphere.

Yes MLSE should be concerned about the expensive seats, but the fact is, without the atmosphere...it's a low quality product, in a minor league, played in an uncomfortable tin can stadium on a plastic pitch. Not exactly attractive to corporate Toronto.

I have first hand experience with this.
The company I work for has seats in the dark reds. The president's assistant manages them and when they aren't used the president gives them away to staff. Does he say, hey, top quality soccer tickets!!. Nope, he goes to the young people and says "Want these? I hear there are a lot of crazies that go to these games, you might like it".

Also in my personal life I've dealt with people who sign the cheques for expensive seasons tickets....they called the supporters sections, The Party Zones. They call game day a good time. Not once do they comment on the product.

Parkdale
06-05-2009, 01:05 PM
As a seat holder in a red section, I can almost guarantee that almost all people in that secion can't name half the team on the field.

not always the case.

I sit in the reds, and I find that for the most part, the people around me have a better understanding of the game, and the development of play than some people do in the south end. Maybe it's just because you can see it better.

Almost all the people around me (with some exceptions, obviously) understand what's going on with the game, and can name off all the players on the pitch.

DOMIN8R
06-05-2009, 01:07 PM
^^^ +1

I sit in 108 now and everyone around me has a decent understanding of the game and team players. STHs have clearly evolved in the last 2 years.

Rudi
06-05-2009, 01:13 PM
While that may be true that's not the whole story (which is what I think you're referencing)

The product doesn't deserve the popularity. What has created the popularity is the atmosphere.
That's very simplistic, too.

Does everyone forget that season tickets were sold out BEFORE a ball was ever kicked in anger? No one knew what the atmosphere was going to be like. In fact, many were afraid it would be an overwhelming soccer mom atmosphere, despite the huge numbers.

olegunnar
06-05-2009, 01:20 PM
That's very simplistic, too.

Does everyone forget that season tickets were sold out BEFORE a ball was ever kicked in anger? No one knew what the atmosphere was going to be like. In fact, many were afraid it would be an overwhelming soccer mom atmosphere, despite the huge numbers.

I'm talking about what I've heard personally from people that sign the cheques for seats they pay for but don't sit in, in 122 to 124. Not individuals that buy seasons in 108, nor 224.

I don't think it's simplistic in the least. We're in season 3. You're talking about pre-season 1.

Since the timeframe you're talking about there have been 2 95+% renewals.
Despite there being:
2 total season failures on the pitch. 1 record setting goaless drought, Zero LAG Beckham appeances and two price increases.

Now that 95% might not hold for 122-124, but the fact remains, given the quality of the product, the venue and the league... logically there HAS to be something else that's making it worth it to them.

Sparta
06-05-2009, 01:29 PM
I'm talking about what I've heard personally from people that sign the cheques for seats they pay for but don't sit in, in 122 to 124. Not individuals that buy seasons in 108, nor 224.

I don't think it's simplistic in the least. We're in season 3. You're talking about pre-season 1.

Since the timeframe you're talking about there have been 2 95+% renewals.
Despite there being:
2 total season failures on the pitch. 1 record setting goaless drought, Zero LAG Beckham appeances and two price increases.

Now that 95% might not hold for 122-124, but the fact remains, given the quality of the product, the venue and the league... logically there HAS to be something else that's making it worth it to them.

HANDS DOWN -- i think your right -- i have given my tickets to family that doesnt even know what a soccer ball is --- but they love the atmosphere and cheap tix -- its a fun experience -- but come day end -- they dont care and arent on these boards -- you call me and say "wow, that was awesome -- do you have anymore tix -- those guys in the corner are amazing" -- but what was the score??????????

grizzle
06-05-2009, 01:38 PM
For those that think nothing can be done and that BMO will always sell out, think of the Blue Jays.

Yea, TFC is very popular now, but unless they keep doing things they are going to lose their momentum. Found this quote off another site (http://13thman.com/cheers/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=718233):

"These people flooding BMO field are not necessarily soccer fans, but BMO field is the place to be seen. Just as Blue Jays games were until '95. I don't really pay attention to the waiting list for season tickets, because when the Blue Jays were selling out, they were capping season's tickets at 26,000, and had a huge waiting list. Now, they are at under 10,000 season tickets."

spezz44
06-05-2009, 01:55 PM
just saw about the protest on CP24 news ticker.

__wowza
06-05-2009, 01:56 PM
i think this thread has gone off topic..

Phil
06-05-2009, 01:57 PM
just saw about the protest on CP24 news ticker.


They are talking about the RM game I think. It was on 680 this morning.

spezz44
06-05-2009, 02:00 PM
i saw on the ticker, group planning protest at Toronto FC game by wearing none team colours.

Sparta
06-05-2009, 02:04 PM
i think this thread has gone off topic..


WAY OFF

I guess it aint going to change but to do what was proposed???:

*chant and Drum
*drink a little less
*no team colours
*protest at gate 4 after game

Bobo
06-05-2009, 04:29 PM
To be real honest, I'm not too big on what's going down tomorrow. I don't see much point in not bringing banners and flags if we'll still be chanting. At the end of the day, we'll still be there doing what we always do. I guess its fine as a first warning. Hopefully there's a good turnout at gate 4 after.

Cambridge_Red
06-05-2009, 04:40 PM
Not everyone is taking this route. I hope everything goes to plan in 112... everyone has to remember this isn't just about this past Tuesday and it isn't directed at the players totally.. but I fully believe this protest is necessary we must stand up for ourselves and more importantly our club.

TorCanSoc
06-05-2009, 04:50 PM
Are we going to find out we live in a bubble? I mean what are our numbers? The stadium is 20,000 strong. Any guesses on the impact/outcome of this?

Section 110
06-06-2009, 12:43 PM
Sorry guys, I have to say that this protest is so half-hearted it's embarrassing. No team colours, no banners, avoid concessions, drink a little less beer? Really?

You want to be heard? Don't go to the game. Simple, and until everyone is willing to make that personal sacrifice, which apparently no one is, this protest will be largely ignored, ML$E will continue to operate as usual, and nothing will happen. I am fully prepared to skip games in coordination with others, but until that happens count me out.

Protests, as we have recently seen in this city, require a greater sacrifice than what is being suggested here: This is little more than a memo detailing what everyone is going to wear to the party.:scarf:

Jack
06-06-2009, 01:24 PM
Sorry guys, I have to say that this protest is so half-hearted it's embarrassing. No team colours, no banners, avoid concessions, drink a little less beer? Really?

You want to be heard? Don't go to the game. Simple, and until everyone is willing to make that personal sacrifice, which apparently no one is, this protest will be largely ignored, ML$E will continue to operate as usual, and nothing will happen. I am fully prepared to skip games in coordination with others, but until that happens count me out.

Protests, as we have recently seen in this city, require a greater sacrifice than what is being suggested here: This is little more than a memo detailing what everyone is going to wear to the party.:scarf:

Funny you should say that when they've already communicated several times this week with the supporters groups. Moreso than they have in the past month.

Nonetheless, you are entitled to your opinion.

Bobo
06-06-2009, 01:28 PM
Unfortunately, I agree with 110. I hope the decision was made bearing in mind this is the first protest and I hope that if the time comes for another one (and it most likely will) there will be a little bit more to it.

Its crucial that people show up to Gate 4 after the game, its the only thing done today that's really going to mean anything. I have a couple buddies going to BMO just to be part of it and they aren't even "hardcore" supporters so I hope there's a good turnout from the supporter groups.

Cristiano14
06-06-2009, 02:08 PM
Being completely silent for a portion of the game would be an excellent idea, hard to pull off, but it gets the message across. Its also used a lot in protests with other clubs worldwide

arbogast
06-06-2009, 06:48 PM
well, whatever the protest was, it was in-effective.

almost everyone still wore colours, there were baners hung, flags raised and hardly anyone walked out of the NNE section. pathetic.

Cristiano14
06-06-2009, 06:50 PM
^^^^^^ that's what it looked like on TV, I hope it was wrong....
Did the march to Gate 4 work out at least?

arbogast
06-06-2009, 06:56 PM
^^^^^^ that's what it looked like on TV, I hope it was wrong....
Did the march to Gate 4 work out at least?

dunno. i was so pissed off i just booked it outta there.

billyfly
06-06-2009, 06:57 PM
well, whatever the protest was, it was in-effective.

almost everyone still wore colours, there were baners hung, flags raised and hardly anyone walked out of the NNE section. pathetic.


We don't really know if it was ineffective. Wasn't followed en mass but who knows if he will add the pressure or not.

arbogast
06-06-2009, 07:01 PM
We don't really know if it was ineffective. Wasn't followed en mass but who knows if he will add the pressure or not.


honestly if I hadn't read about it here, I never would have known anything was going on and considering the pages and pages of vitriol spewed on this board and others about it, it should have been much more noticable. lots of talk, no action.

billyfly
06-06-2009, 07:04 PM
honstley if I hadn't read about it here, I never would have known anything was going on.


It was pretty last minute due to the debate to do something or not to do something. It made the news (CP24 on Friday).

Still I think there has been a lot of dialogue back and forth with the FO and I do think that they realize how the fan-base feel.

Section 117
06-06-2009, 07:09 PM
Hey guys

A question for everyone. I was at the game I did not wear my colours, I didn't chant or buy anything from the conscessions. You know what I saw? A whole lot of fuck all from the majority of our fans.

I am disapoint with our team with our fans. I am not sure when I will go to my next game. We are a joke of an organization

bhoybobby
06-06-2009, 07:19 PM
So I build my summer around TFC only to get told there's a game next Sat, which I'll miss & that I'll have to pay for the pleasure of watching a needless costly friendly.

Mlse, especially Mo & the ass man can fuck right off. They couldn't mis-manage this club more if they tried. Ho mlse have managed to fuck this up is beyond me, an absolute disgrace, a pathetic organization who abuses their customers.

They can fuck right off.

druid
06-06-2009, 07:28 PM
It was a good effort but probably insufficient. No criticism of the organizers, just a matter of fact.

I think if one supporters group can't come to agreement on the manner of protest, and what's really required is all of them to be of a single mind, the only alternative would be to get better media connections and hammer hard on Tom Anselmi and Paul Beirne directly at the ground and in the media. Don't blame Mo, don't blame Cummmins. Just hammer on those two. Otherwise we're looking at the Leafs 2.0.

Cristiano14
06-06-2009, 07:30 PM
^ True it starts at the top

Cristiano14
06-06-2009, 07:30 PM
Hey guys

A question for everyone. I was at the game I did not wear my colours, I didn't chant or buy anything from the conscessions. You know what I saw? A whole lot of fuck all from the majority of our fans.

I am disapoint with our team with our fans. I am not sure when I will go to my next game. We are a joke of an organization


U know if the march 2 gate4 worked out?

Roogsy
06-06-2009, 07:35 PM
Sorry brother, you are a bit off here. Newcastle supporters had two massive rally's/demonstrations during the course of the season. And much of it was before the game and during. It made the National News. The Newcastle Supporters group is only two years old, and they were able to get the attention of the national media to express their concerns. It was huge here. It can be done - it just requires a steadfast nature.

They sang at the end - because their fate was sealed.

This was always my position. To do something when there is still something to fight for. Once our fate is sealed...it's nonsense to make noise.

Section 117
06-06-2009, 07:36 PM
No I left I was so pissed off by the display of the lads and the fans

Beach_Red
06-06-2009, 07:39 PM
Don't blame Mo, don't blame Cummmins. Just hammer on those two. Otherwise we're looking at the Leafs 2.0.

You're right. If people support a losing team they will get a losing team. We don't want to be the Chicago Cubs or the LA Kings or the Buffalo Bills of the MLS (though New England with their four championship game losses already have the Bills title). Every couple of years the manager and coach will be changed but the attitude will remain the same.

I still can't believe that no one else in all of southern Ontario was interested in an MLS team when the franchise fee was $3 million and the stadium was free.

Of course, the lack of entrepeneurial spirit fits perfectly with Ontario.

Section 117
06-06-2009, 07:41 PM
This was always my position. To do something when there is still something to fight for. Once our fate is sealed...it's nonsense to make noise.

Then it's officaly done our season is over and there is no point. I have lost the respect of the majority of the lads, the FO everything...

I am out I need a break from the team and this board. It is not good for my health

poppamidnight
06-06-2009, 07:44 PM
It was a good effort but probably insufficient. No criticism of the organizers, just a matter of fact.

I think if one supporters group can't come to agreement on the manner of protest, and what's really required is all of them to be of a single mind, the only alternative would be to get better media connections and hammer hard on Tom Anselmi and Paul Beirne directly at the ground and in the media. Don't blame Mo, don't blame Cummmins. Just hammer on those two. Otherwise we're looking at the Leafs 2.0.


Nah that won't accomplish anything,
I've said it before, You've got to have some attention-grabbing (but obviously not stupid/illegal...etc) that can be run in the TO Sports media

Two things i was hoping for:
1 - All supporters section turn backs for 5 minutes

or

2 - Start a Mo has got to Go chant.... or something of that nature, where a pointing of arms to the press-box,
something like we did when Darren Huckerby was in town... The whole stadium was looking to see what was being pointed at, and even the non-diehard fans after about 5 minutes were finally aware of who "this Huckerby fella" was,


If you did something within stadium to draw attention to the failure of management IN GAME, the media wouldhve definately wrote it into their stories

Fiin
06-06-2009, 07:51 PM
Nothing will ever get accomplished unless people are all on board.. anytime theres a plan for a big protest or anything, seems like the vast majority fear reprisiles, weaken it down to nothing, and continue to take mushroom slaps from MLSE.

And for the record, the NEE did walk out, its just, as a 40-50 person group, it lacks epic on TV :P

andyc
06-06-2009, 07:52 PM
No NEE chanting and singing was certainly missed from my section (106). It's tough to hear the south end sometimes and the NEE are normally very loud. My big issue was with the scumbags around NEE that moved in on their seats before the protest had even left the section.

The idiots scrambled forward to grab the front rows and sat their the whole game. This meant there was no empty section while they sat and munched on their popcorn...

TicTacTabarnack
06-06-2009, 08:01 PM
The protest to Gate 4 tonight was good. It was peaceful, we were loud and we drove the point across. If our voices aren't heard than we have to step up and chant IN GAME.

I called out Anselmi after the second LAG goal and started a Bullshit chant (only 1 other person knew who I was yelling at unfortunately and I stuck out like a sore thumb).

ML$E's box is right at the end of Section 121 on the left side looking back. Tom Anselmi, Paul Bierne and MoJo were all sitting there watching the game tonight. It was great to see people giving them a piece of their mind at the end of the game and yelling into the box. Had no idea what they said, but they sure looked pissed off.

- Maybe it was the fact that a league game was changed to accommodate a game of pick-up soccer (My wife and I planned our honeymoon around TFC's home schedule and now we're missing a game). I'd be less pissed off if I wasn't going to be gouged for the additional game.
- Maybe it was the fact that ML$E cares more about the health of Real Madrid's players than our own ... Installing grass for them for 1 game for a bunch of randoms and treating our OWN like second class citizens when it comes with giving them the very best.
- Maybe it's the fact that we're going to get gouged tomorrow for Real tickets after tonight's piss poor performance, missing out on 2 Voyageurs cups against lower leagued teams with half the budget, not having a DP or a quality Centre Back ... The list goes on!

I'm pissed! I think we should call them out in their box, face them and sing the beautiful protest chant we had tonight:

They don't care about players!
They don't care about fans!
Toronto Football Club ... Is in the wrong hands!

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:03 PM
The protest to Gate 4 tonight was good. It was peaceful, we were loud and we drove the point across. If our voices aren't heard than we have to step up and chant IN GAME.

I called out Anselmi after the second LAG goal and started a Bullshit chant (only 1 other person knew who I was yelling at unfortunately and I stuck out like a sore thumb).

ML$E's box is right at the end of Section 121 on the left side looking back. Tom Anselmi, Paul Bierne and MoJo were all sitting there watching the game tonight. It was great to see people giving them a piece of their mind at the end of the game and yelling into the box. Had no idea what they said, but they sure looked pissed off.

- Maybe it was the fact that a league game was changed to accomodate a game of pick-up soccer (My wife and I planned our honeymoon around TFC's home schedule and now we're missing a game).
- Maybe it was the fact that ML$E cares more about the health of Real Madrid's players than our own ... Installing grass for them for 1 game for a bunch of randoms and treating our OWN like second class citizens when it comes with giving them the very best.
- Maybe it's the fact that we're going to get gouged tomorrow for Real tickets after tonight's piss poor performance, missing out on 2 Voyageurs cups against lower leagued teams with half the budget, not having a DP or a quality Centre Back ... The list goes on!

I'm pissed! I think we should call them out in their box, face them and sing the beautiful protest chant we had tonight:

They don't care about players!
They don't care about fans!
Toronto Football Club ... Are in the wrong hands!

Exactly right my man.. we dont want to turn on the players, its not them, its the fact that like all other MLSE ran franchises, it takes a stupid amount of public outcry/ reprecussion before they realise they hired the wrong people.

TOfan
06-06-2009, 08:13 PM
I'm not sure what happened but as my friend and i were leaving the protest at gate 4, several police officers on bikes surrounded one of the protestors who had worn a black bandana and started questioning him and asking him how much had had to drink and other questions which I didn't hear. I don't know what happened to him, did any one else witness or know what happened?

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:15 PM
I'm not sure what happened but as my friend and i were leaving the protest at gate 4, several police officers on bikes surrounded one of the protestors who had worn a black bandana and started questioning him and asking him how much had had to drink and other questions which I didn't hear. I don't know what happened to him, did any one else witness or know what happened?

I wasnt there, but I know who that would be, dont worry, hes a good guy and pretty sly, cops just seem to love to harass him :P

TOfan
06-06-2009, 08:17 PM
Hope he's Ok, thanks for the info.

Chevy
06-06-2009, 08:17 PM
I'm not sure what happened but as my friend and i were leaving the protest at gate 4, several police officers on bikes surrounded one of the protestors who had worn a black bandana and started questioning him and asking him how much had had to drink and other questions which I didn't hear. I don't know what happened to him, did any one else witness or know what happened?

I did see it. They were acting like idiots and the cops held them up for a while. Really NOT a big deal.

They also started taunting the cops after they were done with them, real mature shit.

Cristiano14
06-06-2009, 08:20 PM
^ that is ridiculous, shows that MLSE doesn't give a fuck about us or any fans for that matter
We BUILT this franchise, its no coincidence that there biggest sponsor BMO uses us and our chant as one of there main adds (this is our house add). And the biggest draw to the games isn't the piss poor football, its us the supporters who make the atmosphere

I for one am tired of this bullshit, and I think we hsould have a serious protest

Beach_Red
06-06-2009, 08:20 PM
Exactly right my man.. we dont want to turn on the players, its not them, its the fact that like all other MLSE ran franchises, it takes a stupid amount of public outcry/ reprecussion before they realise they hired the wrong people.

And those people hired the wrong players.

TOfan
06-06-2009, 08:21 PM
I see, I was at the back of the protest so I didn't see what they were doing. Thanks for the info guys.

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:22 PM
And those people hired the wrong players.

Yep.. totally agree.

stu!
06-06-2009, 08:24 PM
I said it in thread I started about not showing up at all.

It's pretty simple, you want to make a point? You don't show up. But you have to be ready to make a sacrifice to show them you mean business.

I don't see it ever happening because nobody is ready to do anything drastic enough to get the attention of the management.

The love for this team is far too unconditional to make such a scene.

TOfan
06-06-2009, 08:25 PM
I suggest for a future protest have everybody wear a particular colour (say black) instead of a passive "don't wear a TFC jersey". While some people heeded the call, most people in 110 had no idea what was going on. But kudos to the people that have organized this first protest.

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:27 PM
I said it in thread I started about not showing up at all.

It's pretty simple, you want to make a point? You don't show up. But you have to be ready to make a sacrifice to show them you mean business.

I don't see it ever happening because nobody is ready to do anything drastic enough to get the attention of the management.

The love for this team is far too unconditional to make such a scene.


Exactly it man. Thats what the problem is. Sometimes people forget tough love is love too :D

Section 117
06-06-2009, 08:28 PM
But the players are also part of the problem. They can't not be let off so easy, the majority of these players have zero heart and in the end if we had a starting 11 that play the with heart we would not be having these issues. In the end maybe the players we have are not good enough

Chevy
06-06-2009, 08:29 PM
I said it in thread I started about not showing up at all.

It's pretty simple, you want to make a point? You don't show up. But you have to be ready to make a sacrifice to show them you mean business.

I don't see it ever happening because nobody is ready to do anything drastic enough to get the attention of the management.

The love for this team is far too unconditional to make such a scene.


If you don't show up or get rid of your season tickets, there are a few thousand that will take your place.

If you DO show up, and the "casual" fan stops coming, THEN you have some leverage. The sacrifice IS SHOWING UP! :)

Overall good job on the protest today considering the limited time available to organize.

TicTacTabarnack
06-06-2009, 08:29 PM
I said it in thread I started about not showing up at all.

It's pretty simple, you want to make a point? You don't show up. But you have to be ready to make a sacrifice to show them you mean business.

I don't see it ever happening because nobody is ready to do anything drastic enough to get the attention of the management.

The love for this team is far too unconditional to make such a scene.

+1 ... That's what makes it so hard.

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:32 PM
But the players are also part of the problem. They can't not be let off so easy, the majority of these players have zero heart and in the end if we had a starting 11 that play the with heart we would not be having these issues. In the end maybe the players we have are not good enough

But thats cyclical back to the people who brought them in and wont replace them.. you can have all the heart in the world, and still suck. See:
Velez, Marco.

Roogsy
06-06-2009, 08:32 PM
If you don't show up or get rid of your season tickets, there are a few thousand that will take your place.

If you DO show up, and the "casual" fan stops coming, THEN you have some leverage. The sacrifice IS SHOWING UP! :)

Overall good job on the protest today considering the limited time available to organize.

Thank you! Somebody gets it.

T0R0NT0 FC
06-06-2009, 08:32 PM
Umm... if you are a season ticket holder and don't show up at the matches, why would they care exactly?

Dont' they already have your money for the entire season? :rolleyes:

:flare::scarf::flare:

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:33 PM
Umm... if you are a season ticket holder and don't show up at the matches, why would they care exactly?

Dont' they already have your money for the entire season? :rolleyes:

:flare::scarf::flare:

You would be surprised how much concessions make of their profit.

Cristiano14
06-06-2009, 08:34 PM
lmfao good point ^

T0R0NT0 FC
06-06-2009, 08:34 PM
You would be surprised how much concessions make of their profit.

Soooo.... dont' buy anything there. I didnt' today. Just more to spend at Joe's afterwards. :)

stu!
06-06-2009, 08:35 PM
Exactly it man. Thats what the problem is. Sometimes people forget tough love is love too :D
Well put. Kind of like a "we're doing this for your own good" type of thing!! :p

Pookie
06-06-2009, 08:35 PM
In terms of a successful protest, it didn't even get a mention on the broadcast so I'm not sure than anyone watching the game would have known that the NEE walked out... let alone have any knowledge of the bigger issues

My suggestion would be to simplify the issue(s) and use the media as much as you can.

Right now, it seems like many are angry and up for some display of emotion but probably would give you different answers as to what they are upset about.

- RM game itself
- RM Ticket prices
- Grass
- No DP
- On field performance
- the GM and the team he assembled
- the coach and his lack of experience
- some of the players

In a world of 20 second sound bites, that's way too complicated for the media machine.

Agree, consolidate and go for it.

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:35 PM
Soooo.... dont' buy anything there. I didnt' today. Just more to spend at Joe's afterwards. :)

Lol, I dont go to Joes, if yer doing that, then thats good, supporting Joe, even though I dont go, is always better then giving MLSE more $$, but at the same time, having people just not show up, makes people egos feels bad too, and will start getting attention. Sometimes it takes abit of time :P

TicTacTabarnack
06-06-2009, 08:35 PM
Soooo.... dont' buy anything there. I didnt' today. Just more to spend at Joe's afterwards. :)

More bang for your buck anyways.

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:37 PM
In terms of a successful protest, it didn't even get a mention on the broadcast so I'm not sure than anyone watching the game would have known that the NEE walked out... let alone have any knowledge of the bigger issues

My suggestion would be to simplify the issue(s) and use the media as much as you can.

Right now, it seems like many are angry and up for some display of emotion but probably would give you different answers as to what they are upset about.

- RM game itself
- RM Ticket prices
- Grass
- No DP
- On field performance
- the GM and the team he assembled
- the coach and his lack of experience
- some of the players

In a world of 20 second sound bites, that's way too complicated for the media machine.

Agree, consolidate and go for it.

I watched it from home today, and yer right, they didnt, but I get the feeling they knew it was comming and were told by their business partners not to mention it.

Beach_Red
06-06-2009, 08:38 PM
But thats cyclical back to the people who brought them in and wont replace them.. you can have all the heart in the world, and still suck. See:
Velez, Marco.


Right, you have to change them all.

This is still an expansion team, they have the same captian from the first year and the guy who scored the very first goal is still the go-to guy. The team hasn't improved.

Robinson and Brennan are good guys, but the team should have moved past them by now. We're just standing still here.

T0R0NT0 FC
06-06-2009, 08:38 PM
Lol, I dont go to Joes, if yer doing that, then thats good, but at the same time, having people just not show up, makes people egos feels bad too, and will start getting attention. Sometimes it takes abit of time :P

So they already have my money for the season.... and now Im' not even supposed to go watch the matches? Do you work for MLSE? :o

Is it really that hard NOT to buy anything for the 2 hours your there?

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:40 PM
So they already have my money for the season.... and now Im' not even supposed to go watch the matches? Do you work for MLSE? :o

Is it really that hard NOT to buy anything for the 2 hours your there?

I am a STH who didnt show up today out of disgust bro, far from an MLSE employee, I thought it was pretty clear I am an NEE by now :P

Honestly, I do find it stupidly hard to not buy anything when I am there, after 2 hrs of jumping, drumming and chanting, I am damn dry.. :drum:

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:42 PM
Right, you have to change them all.

This is still an expansion team, they have the same captian from the first year and the guy who scored the very first goal is still the go-to guy. The team hasn't improved.

Robinson and Brennan are good guys, but the team should have moved past them by now. We're just standing still here.

Robbo is a great holding midfielder, and Brennan is played outta position.. I think them 2 should stay.. Danny, is immortal.. De Ro and Serioux, you can tell, give a shit, and Frei is amazing.. past them, dont care what happens, long as we improve :P

David
06-06-2009, 08:48 PM
So they already have my money for the season.... and now Im' not even supposed to go watch the matches? Do you work for MLSE? :o

Is it really that hard NOT to buy anything for the 2 hours your there?

That's not the point. Right now, the casuals go to the game mainly for the atmosphere. Ask anyone who isn't a "die hard" about TFC, I bet you anything the first thing or maybe the only thing they'll mention is the atmosphere and the fans and that's why they want to check out a game. I bet you my house they won't mention the great footy, because well, we don't get the luxury of watching great footy at BMO most of the time, so why would they? We are marketable, take out that aspect and you already have something MLSE should be worried about.

Your saying it's not hard to buy anything in the 2 hours but still possible, if your not there it's impossible to buy anything so which is better? The fact that they already have our money for the season is a valid argument but only to a certain extent when we're not buying their merchandise and concessions where alot of the revenue is coming from, hence the existence of the beer garden.

Beach_Red
06-06-2009, 08:49 PM
Robbo is a great holding midfielder, and Brennan is played outta position.. I think them 2 should stay.. Danny, is immortal.. De Ro and Serioux, you can tell, give a shit, and Frei is amazing.. past them, dont care what happens, long as we improve :P

You sound like a Leaf fan telling me Gilmour should be MVP the year Lemieux played half a season and won the scoring title ;).

They're nice enough guys, but they aren't the heart of a playoff team in this league anymore.

TicTacTabarnack
06-06-2009, 08:52 PM
That's not the point. Right now, the casuals go to the game mainly for the atmosphere. Ask anyone who isn't a "die hard" about TFC, I bet you anything the first thing or maybe the only thing they'll mention is the atmosphere and the fans and that's why they want to check out a game. I bet you my house they won't mention the great footy, because well, we don't get the luxury of watching great footy at BMO most of the time, so why would they? We are marketable, take out that aspect and you already have something MLSE should be worried about.

Your saying it's not hard to buy anything in the 2 hours but still possible, if your not there it's impossible to buy anything so which is better? The fact that they already have our money for the season is a valid argument but only to a certain extent when we're not buying their merchandise and concessions where alot of the revenue is coming from, hence the existence of the beer garden.

LMAO ... It's funny 'cause it's true! (BMO "This is Our House" Commercial)

RedsYNWA
06-06-2009, 08:52 PM
Protest thread ??? JUST DON'T SHOW UP I have not been to a game since New England and I don't plan on going back EMPTY SEATS is the only thing MLSE will notice.

trane
06-06-2009, 08:53 PM
^ those are all good players, but they are all ageing in football terms. Frei is the exeption, Attakora I still believe has a very bring future ahead of him as does Cronin.

Fiin
06-06-2009, 08:59 PM
^ those are all good players, but they are all ageing in football terms. Frei is the exeption, Attakora I still believe has a very bring future ahead of him as does Cronin.

Forsure man, I forgot about the Cronin, hes a good talent.

Dirk Diggler
06-06-2009, 09:10 PM
Cronin is definitely a good player. Making Robbo look more expendable every day (which Robbo is anyways in my opinion).

RedMAN127
06-06-2009, 09:40 PM
No NEE chanting and singing was certainly missed from my section (106). It's tough to hear the south end sometimes and the NEE are normally very loud. My big issue was with the scumbags around NEE that moved in on their seats before the protest had even left the section.

The idiots scrambled forward to grab the front rows and sat their the whole game. This meant there was no empty section while they sat and munched on their popcorn...

FYI, the guys eating popcorn front row are SSH and those were there seats, had to wait till the protest was over to access them. The whole section sat in support of the protest.

masrawy
06-06-2009, 09:44 PM
FYI, the guys eating popcorn front row are SSH and those were there seats, had to wait till the protest was over to access them. The whole section sat in support of the protest.

We have 90% of the seats up to row 5. I know the people that moved down, I look back all game. They sit up in the top half.

And thanks for the support.

Darlofletch
06-06-2009, 10:38 PM
all you people watching tv who are criticising? did you really think CBC was going to focus on that? I can't imagine more synergised in bed together people than mlse and the cbc.

I went along to the gate 4 protest afterwards, very amused that the cops decide to build a barricade using their bikes! That protest was definitely a good start i think, even though not massively attended. props to the NEE for the walkout, who knows how much it was noticed but that's some good dedication to the cause.

I haven't really hung out with any RPB people before so I didn't know anyone, the Harvey Milk/Sean Penn lookalike with the microphone, that was Jack?

Sparta
06-06-2009, 10:39 PM
Wow - nice job by the NEE -- i was impressed -- even though it seemed like it wasnt all of them -- they made a stand and followed through -- people WHERE affected by it -- it was quiet around that area to the point where questions where raised --

my hats off to them -- nice job

kelzag
06-06-2009, 10:45 PM
What so few people failed to comprehend is that it was a sacrifice for us to leave the match, but we were united in the belief that in order for our point to be made, we needed to remove the "atmosphere" in 127. I know we accomplished that.

brad
06-06-2009, 10:47 PM
What so few people failed to comprehend is that it was a sacrifice for us to leave the match, but we were united in the belief that in order for our point to be made, we needed to remove the "atmosphere" in 127. I know we accomplished that.

I sit across from you in 105 - trust me, the you were missed. Good on you for doing it.

Sparta
06-06-2009, 10:49 PM
Sorry to say but our protest was a joke -- was there even a protest???????? I never seen so much red -- what happened??????????

Gate 4 wasnt too bad -- wish it was longer with addition chants to belittle the FO but, it wasnt bad

Unclassy of USECTOR to start a chant against the NEE about leaving -- totally unclassy

druid
06-06-2009, 11:04 PM
2 - Start a Mo has got to Go chant.... or something of that nature, where a pointing of arms to the press-box,


Why? So they can appoint a new set of second rate schmucks lacking the proper support like the old set of second rate schmucks?

FluSH
06-06-2009, 11:09 PM
Sorry to say but our protest was a joke -- was there even a protest???????? I never seen so much red -- what happened??????????

Gate 4 wasnt too bad -- wish it was longer with addition chants to belittle the FO but, it wasnt bad

Unclassy of USECTOR to start a chant against the NEE about leaving -- totally unclassy

....

FluSH
06-06-2009, 11:12 PM
RESPECT TO NEE



I saw you guys walkout one by one... others from the top of 127 took your seats... but the North wasn't the same... You could see a decent gap to the side... almost a ghostly reminder of you guys...

andyc
06-06-2009, 11:20 PM
FYI, the guys eating popcorn front row are SSH and those were there seats, had to wait till the protest was over to access them. The whole section sat in support of the protest.

Really?? Nice job jumping over seats to get to the front row... Didn't look like they were patiently waiting to sit in their seats...

Stryker
06-06-2009, 11:25 PM
Can't believe U-Sector did that*. That ain't cool.




















*disclaimer - I can totally believe U-Sector did that

FluSH
06-06-2009, 11:27 PM
Can't believe U-Sector did that*. That ain't cool.




















*disclaimer - I can totally believe U-Sector did that


It's interesting... Our decision to not walkout and go to the Beer Garden was a very close call.... Would Usector have chanted against us? That's not cool...

Sparta
06-06-2009, 11:28 PM
So that was the worst case scenerio that we could have imagined -- a weak protest, supporters screwing up each other -- and an LA win

WHAT NOW???????? We do we go now???? Should we attempt something else??? Should we accept what mlse gives us???

I personally know what the answer to these questions are but -- serious -- LETS NOT WAIT -- or let emotions cool down --- We need creative responsible HARD NOSE NO-NONSENSE action taken for next game

AND commitment from ALLLLLL -- none of this half ass that didnt work -- yes we tried -- and if anyone dares to say it worked -- you must not have been at the game -- If we are the BIGGEST supporters group out there -- well -- lets show them -- action -- hard action -- no tippy toeing around there

I heard the number 200 out there for the amount of people that were at the gate 4 protest -- i was there (mind u in the front) it didnt seem like 200 -- but for argument sake --lets say there was -- WHAT THE FUCK -- 200????? theres got to be 5000 RPB members/registered users, and NEE's -- lets get on board here -- it aint good to just stand and watch -- START BEING PART

Open up a thread for all -- lets put out some ideas -- and vote for the best -- we all know what doesnt work -- (weakness and fear) - and if we do this half heartered then take a good look in the mirror tonight and say to yourself -- did i really do my part? could i have done better --- and then finally ask -- DO I REALLY CARE???? Then you should know if you should be on this board or not

Lets get with it people -- soccer is passion

Roogsy
06-06-2009, 11:31 PM
It's interesting... Our decision to not walkout and go to the Beer Garden was a very close call.... Would Usector have chanted against us? That's not cool...


Very simple...


Yes.

Roogsy
06-06-2009, 11:32 PM
So that was the worst case scenerio that we could have imagined -- a weak protest, supporters screwing up each other -- and an LA win

WHAT NOW???????? We do we go now???? Should we attempt something else??? Should we accept what mlse gives us???

I personally know what the answer to these questions are but -- serious -- LETS NOT WAIT -- or let emotions cool down --- We need creative responsible HARD NOSE NO-NONSENSE action taken for next game

AND commitment from ALLLLLL -- none of this half ass that didnt work -- yes we tried -- and if anyone dares to say it worked -- you must not have been at the game -- If we are the BIGGEST supporters group out there -- well -- lets show them -- action -- hard action -- no tippy toeing around there

I heard the number 200 out there for the amount of people that were at the gate 4 protest -- i was there (mind u in the front) it didnt seem like 200 -- but for argument sake --lets say there was -- WHAT THE FUCK -- 200????? theres got to be 5000 RPB members/registered users, and NEE's -- lets get on board here -- it aint good to just stand and watch -- START BEING PART

Open up a thread for all -- lets put out some ideas -- and vote for the best -- we all know what doesnt work -- (weakness and fear) - and if we do this half heartered then take a good look in the mirror tonight and say to yourself -- did i really do my part? could i have done better --- and then finally ask -- DO I REALLY CARE???? Then you should know if you should be on this board or not

Lets get with it people -- soccer is passion

What was done in the stadium was half-assed, but the gate 4 effort was better. Did you go?

FluSH
06-06-2009, 11:35 PM
Very simple...


Yes.

Good to know... the shit won't be pretty.

Stryker
06-06-2009, 11:35 PM
They don't seem to play well with others.

FluSH
06-06-2009, 11:35 PM
What was done in the stadium was half-assed, but the gate 4 effort was better. Did you go?

I'm pretty sure he said "I was there"

Sparta
06-06-2009, 11:36 PM
What was done in the stadium was half-assed, but the gate 4 effort was better. Did you go?

Yes it was good -- thought more should have made it out though -- i was up front -- keyman and Jack where on the mega -- it was good -- like i said earlier -- would have been better with more people and longer with more chants -- in my opinion -- BUT GOOD OVERALL

LOVE TO DO IT AGAIN -- maybe during the game

Roogsy
06-06-2009, 11:37 PM
I'm pretty sure he said "I was there"

Missed it in the rest of the post. Thanks.

Stryker
06-06-2009, 11:38 PM
Anything that irks MLSE is aces in my book. :thumbsup:

Sparta
06-06-2009, 11:45 PM
I think we have to play the NUMBERS game -- we have the numbers -- that is in our control and we can do whatever we want with it

They only way it gets bad is if something bad is being done -- if nothing bad is done -- then all is good and HEARD

I saw a guy in 109 stand and security asked him to sit because newbies wanted him to -- security was frazeled -- everytime she came -- all the section joined together in the chant of "EAST SIDE STAND UP" and they did -- now she couldnt do anything -- POWER put in motion -- so everytime she came -- that chant came up and it worked brilliantly -- but eventually the guy sat down (maybe for respect of the people behind--i dont know)

But the point is the numbers

Maybe a floating south would be beneficial (just a thought) or half time chanting - or blocking concessions -- i dont know lets go with stuff here no???

mclaren
06-06-2009, 11:51 PM
I think we have to play the NUMBERS game -- we have the numbers -- that is in our control and we can do whatever we want with it

They only way it gets bad is if something bad is being done -- if nothing bad is done -- then all is good and HEARD

I saw a guy in 109 stand and security asked him to sit because newbies wanted him to -- security was frazeled -- everytime she came -- all the section joined together in the chant of "EAST SIDE STAND UP" and they did -- now she couldnt do anything -- POWER put in motion -- so everytime she came -- that chant came up and it worked brilliantly -- but eventually the guy sat down (maybe for respect of the people behind--i dont know)

But the point is the numbers

Maybe a floating south would be beneficial (just a thought) or half time chanting - or blocking concessions -- i dont know lets go with stuff here no???

The protest outside Gate 4 is a good start. Now we just need to start building numbers and continue protests like that after every game until something is done.

Sparta
06-06-2009, 11:56 PM
maybe pre game -- when FO's come to the game -- post game, chances are they left already -- but pre-game, they have to come -- we can give them an earful when coming in

Nodoubtguy
06-07-2009, 12:10 AM
It's interesting... Our decision to not walkout and go to the Beer Garden was a very close call.... Would Usector have chanted against us? That's not cool...

Well I've said it before....I will not walkout if RPB decides too.

Roogsy
06-07-2009, 12:13 AM
Well I've said it before....I will not walkout if RPB decides too.

And we've decided not to as a group. So we can drop "if the group decides to walk I won't" issue.

Darlofletch
06-07-2009, 12:13 AM
Who else is in the west stand? either 100 or 200 level, amongst the more expensive tickets or in front of the boxes where the tv people and presumably most of the fo, and their most important sponsors are?

Let's do something right in their faces. maybe at half time while the tv summarisers are doing their thing. Show them that it's not just the common folk in the cheap seats that are pissed.

I'm near the back of 224. I'll say up front that i'm not the type to be starting shit, but if shit's going down, I'm pissed off enough to join in.

nascarguy
06-07-2009, 12:25 AM
maybe pre game -- when FO's come to the game -- post game, chances are they left already -- but pre-game, they have to come -- we can give them an earful when coming in
yes we sould do this on saturday:drum: but lets make sure we do not block the player from coming in

Pookie
06-07-2009, 06:57 AM
I personally think you need 2 discussions.

The HOW and WHY

Most people seemed to have great ideas as to how to protest and surely you'll come to some conclusion that will get noticed.

The WHY part is more ellusive.

You need to simply your reason for protest, otherwise, how will you know if it has been successful.

"Taking MLSE Shit" is a fine sentiment, but you can't measure actions on it nor does it give the public/media any real idea what you are pissed at. If the media can't express it in a simple, easy to report on manner, they are just going to look away (as CBC did during the broadcast yesterday).

That's not effective.

Maybe it's a list of things but they need to be consolidated and expressed in a way that is measureable. You need to give MLSE an "out" so to speak in a way that says they addressed your concerns.

"We want the grass to be permanent as of Aug 8th" is an example.

"We want standing sections at the upper rows of the stadium by 2010" is another.

Bobo
06-07-2009, 07:03 AM
Sorry to say but our protest was a joke -- was there even a protest???????? I never seen so much red -- what happened??????????

Gate 4 wasnt too bad -- wish it was longer with addition chants to belittle the FO but, it wasnt bad

Unclassy of USECTOR to start a chant against the NEE about leaving -- totally unclassy

I guess an all round FAIL. Embarrassing protest after media outlets even took note. ML$E are probably laughing at us right now.

What did U-Sector say? I missed the first 15 minutes and missed NEE's walkout. Mad props to them for being the only ones with balls.

David
06-07-2009, 07:03 AM
"We want standing sections at the upper rows of the stadium by 2010" is another.

Because that is the most pressing issue at hand right now?...If that was purely just meant as an example then ok, but otherwise, I think there's alot more important things going on that need attention...

jabbronies
06-07-2009, 07:07 AM
The first 3 minutes of the game was golden. Everyone was dead quiet. Then the chanting started, not very loud but it was there. The first half was dead. The second half though, seemed it all went out the window and things were semi-normal.

Anyone see dichio's reaction to his goal? Golden! Was he pissed at the supporters?

Pookie
06-07-2009, 07:09 AM
Because that is the most pressing issue at hand right now?...If that was purely just meant as an example then ok, but otherwise, I think there's alot more important things going on that need attention...

Just an example... was trying to think of specific, measurable way to express sentiment.

David
06-07-2009, 07:12 AM
Just an example... was trying to think of specific, measurable way to express sentiment.

Fair enough :drinking:

4evared
06-07-2009, 08:05 AM
Wow guys. There really is something about the game of football that brings out a passion in all of us. Everyone has an opinion about why we are having all these negative thoughts and reactions. I was at gate 4 yesterday and I noticed that all the positive posts about the protest are from those that were present and the negative posts have generally come from those that were not there. WTF!!!! How can you make a judgement if you are not there. If you were there, you saw that there was a presence at gate 4 from the stadium staff (suits) that heard us loud and clear.
This was the first protest and we can build from there if we have to.
To me there is only 1 issue that needs to be addressed. GRASS, GRASS, GRASS.
The D.P. issue would probably be solved.
The Real Madrid fiasco would not hurt as much.
The Champions League playoffs would be coming to T.O., because the players would not be so beat up.
My son and I stayed behind to get some photo's of the players as they left. Every one of them were limping, some in visible pain, because they are forced to play on that shit synthetic crap.
We need one issue to work on and that is where we need to focus.