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View Full Version : Being Die hard includes Forgiveness



Frank Costanza
06-03-2009, 11:44 AM
Plain and simple i cant believe how many bitching threads there are here. Are we not the red patch boys, yes its the day after and we all expected a hang over effect, but fire this guy , fire that guy, the whole team sucks, common, remember the chants , if this was a marriage id say "its about the ring"


I cant be the only postive one...

prove im not

billyfly
06-03-2009, 11:46 AM
On the internet it takes approx 24-48 hours to propagate love and hate. Tune back in tomorrow or so.

Roogsy
06-03-2009, 11:47 AM
Being die-hard also means demanding better.

The demands of all TFC fans (not just RPB) were reasonable this year.

We have failed in one for sure.

And the second is looking shaky, right now this team is not making the playoffs.

At what point is it acceptable that the love of the supporter become one-way only?

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 11:49 AM
you're not the only positive one.

we were served up a platter of shit yesterday, and people have a right to be angry. Does that mean they're going to bail on the team? Probably not. It just means that we are frustrated. A little frustration can be a good thing, because it will light the fire under our asses... to light a fire under the players/coaching/management's collective ass.

after the first season, a lot of people felt "this is only going to make it sweeter when we finally start winning" I still believe that. When the team finally gets things together, it will be one sweet payback for all the dark days, AND we'll appreciate it more than a brand new side like Seattle might.

Fort York Redcoat
06-03-2009, 11:49 AM
It's about the crest.

but to protest actively persues conversation. A relationship isn't much if one side does all the talking.

Nodoubtguy
06-03-2009, 11:51 AM
Plain and simple i cant believe how many bitching threads there are here. Are we not the red patch boys, yes its the day after and we all expected a hang over effect, but fire this guy , fire that guy, the whole team sucks, common, remember the chants , if this was a marriage id say "its about the ring"


I cant be the only postive one...

prove im not

of all people Mr Costanza, you should understand the Airing of Grievances......

I don't think anyone here is turning their back on the team, but its hard to give for 3 years and never see results or major changes that could change things dramatically.

TFC USA
06-03-2009, 11:51 AM
The forgiveness part comes when we start winning consistently and make a deep run in the playoffs.

Because the easier task went bust AGAIN.

Roogsy
06-03-2009, 11:52 AM
To give forgiveness...somebody has to ask for it.

Has someone asked for it? Or shown to be contrite?

felipe
06-03-2009, 11:52 AM
I'm with you Frank - lets focus on the positives!

Umm.........

Seriously though, people need to step back and relax....its not like we can get relegated.

Carter
06-03-2009, 11:54 AM
Being die-hard also means demanding better.

The demands of all TFC fans (not just RPB) were reasonable this year.

We have failed in one for sure.

And the second is looking shaky, right now this team is not making the playoffs.

At what point is it acceptable that the love of the supporter become one-way only?

When how did we fail? We have 17 REGULAR SEASON Games left.

Fuck the Voyagers Cup or whatever its called.

how are we not making the playoffs, we are tied for second place in the east.

We lost 2 fucking games, one that only matter for more "world playing time", big deal, Did columbus fans turn their back on the Crew when they started the season off shaky?

TorontoMO
06-03-2009, 11:55 AM
Hold on. If my wife had a crack cocaine problem which stopped her from helping around the house and or spending time with the kids in a positive environment.. And our SEX life had stopped to function.

I'd tell her to smarten the fuck up, get help or I and the kids were finding another place to live.

I think that is what we're saying to MLSE and MO SHITSTONE

Being a supporter does not mean being a chump.

Boris
06-03-2009, 11:55 AM
Fuck the Voyagers Cup or whatever its called.



say what?

H Bomb
06-03-2009, 11:56 AM
Lets not assume today is about one loss either. Last night was the biggest loss in club history for me. We had so many ways to win, and only a few ways to screw it up, and we screwed it up. It's the culmination of a lot of frustration, and shouldnt be a surprise.

H Bomb
06-03-2009, 11:56 AM
say what?


agreed. Winning the cup is a chance to get us to play in a knockout league that isn't completely bush league!

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-03-2009, 11:57 AM
we played perhaps the worst game in the clubs 2.5 years history..No heart,No effort = a loss most of the time..can we go into Montral and win 4-0...sure Montreal is not doing well this year, but TFC have to raise their game a hell of a lot for this to happen..before that the Galaxy, lets see the team make the effort this weekend..if we get the same shitty
effort..then we are in trouble the rest of the way

Stryker
06-03-2009, 11:57 AM
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 11:57 AM
Last night was the biggest loss in club history for me.

since the time last year when we lost the same cup. :(

GabrielHurl
06-03-2009, 11:58 AM
Fuck the Voyagers Cup or whatever its called.

:epic faceplam:

Carter
06-03-2009, 11:58 AM
agreed. Winning the cup is a chance to get us to play in a knockout league that isn't completely bush league!

and we still have that chance, personally i would rather have our name on the MLS Cup, then first round knock out of the non completely bush league.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 11:58 AM
Are TFC die hard...? Are they giving it all they have got...? If the champion were crowned for the level of support they get, TFC would be defending champs.

Die hard does not mean being blind to reality.

trane
06-03-2009, 11:58 AM
^ The famous six inch non-goal.

Boris
06-03-2009, 11:59 AM
Lets not assume today is about one loss either. Last night was the biggest loss in club history for me. We had so many ways to win, and only a few ways to screw it up, and we screwed it up. It's the culmination of a lot of frustration, and shouldnt be a surprise.

longest no scoring streak - forgiven
no grass - somewhat forgiven
shit turn around last year to end up third to last - forgiven
being lied to about players we could pick up - forgiven
loosing to montreal last year and having them win the vcup - forgiven


now we have to deal with having our schedule fixed to accomodate the other madrid team....ontop of being told screw off by the front office at any chance.

When will some people see that we are being treated like crap and ontop of that being relegated to watching a shit product on the pitch

trane
06-03-2009, 12:00 PM
and we still have that chance, personally i would rather have our name on the MLS Cup, then first round knock out of the non completely bush league.


When you say bush league you mean MLS? Certainly not the league wich plays against Mexican teams, some of the best teams in the world.

Carter
06-03-2009, 12:00 PM
:epic faceplam:

would you rather have our players injured during the playing the non league games or win an MLS cup?

Vancity RED
06-03-2009, 12:01 PM
of all people Mr Costanza, you should understand the Airing of Grievances......

"I got a lot of problems with you people!"

Boris
06-03-2009, 12:03 PM
would you rather have our players injured during the playing the non league games or win an MLS cup?

its the big picture...we have chances for all these cups. Id rather go far in champions league at times to be honest.

joel
06-03-2009, 12:03 PM
I'd say 75% of the people on these boards are bi-polar.

TorontoMO
06-03-2009, 12:04 PM
Ya that was real bush league with Montreal getting another 4-5 home games last year against some decent Mexican teams. I think one even drew 55K.

Vancouver will fill BC place if they get that far. And the Rogers Centre will sit empty once again insted of being full of 55000 fans. It's time to give props where they're due. The USL isn't that different to the MLS. DC drew 6K for a game vs Red Bull this year. USL team beat MLS teams.

That's not the signs of a bush league.

Shep
06-03-2009, 12:05 PM
longest no scoring streak - forgiven
no grass - somewhat forgiven
shit turn around last year to end up third to last - forgiven
being lied to about players we could pick up - forgiven
loosing to montreal last year - forgiven


now we have to deal with having our schedule fixed to accomodate the other madrid team....ontop of being told screw off by the front office at any chance.

When will some people see that we are being treated like crap and ontop of that being relegated to watching a shit product on the pitch


I think they want to win as much as we want them to. They just failed at it the last two matches.

We'd beaten Van, we'd beaten Montreal, we are doing decent enough in the league and it's still early.

Things are hardly as dire as everyone is making them out to be.

And as for RM, that's your opinion, I see it as the FO doing alot of work and juggling to get us something special. TFC hosting Real Madrid? Yeah that's worth a fixture date change to me, but not to everyone.

I don't feel at all like I'm beaing treated like crap.

We lost 2 matches. And as much of a long-shot as it may seem we still have a chance at the cup.

trane
06-03-2009, 12:05 PM
I'd say 75% of the people on these boards are bi-polar.

The other 25% have amnesia.

Carter
06-03-2009, 12:07 PM
I'd say 75% of the people on these boards are bi-polar.

:rofl:
You and Jenn coming out this weekend?

Super
06-03-2009, 12:09 PM
The team should know that they will NEVER walk alone. No, I'm not trying to introduce YWNWA as a chant, but I'm always impressed by supporters who go through good times as well as bad with their team. At this rate we're basically turning into a group of people who only sing when we're winning. Supporting? Not so much.

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 12:09 PM
I'd say 75% of the people on these boards are bi-polar.


The other 25% have amnesia.


and the last 25% are really bad at math.



:cool:

Carter
06-03-2009, 12:11 PM
The team should know that they will NEVER walk alone. No, I'm not trying to introduce YWNWA as a chant, but I'm always impressed by supporters who go through good times as well as bad with their team. At this rate we're basically turning into a group of people who only sing when we're winning. Supporting? Not so much.

THANK YOU.

ensco
06-03-2009, 12:13 PM
Things to feel positive about:

- beer garden
- Nana, DeRo (but not last night) and Serioux

errr, that's it

Stouffville_RPB
06-03-2009, 12:13 PM
since the time last year when we lost the same cup. :(

I disagree Parky. Last night was bigger. There were more people setting the VCup as a major goal for the season which didn't happen last season.

We are a much improved squad from last year and should have been able to win this tournament. The fact that all we needed was a draw to clinch with 2 games left also added to our expectations.

2009 TFC were supposed to be a vastly superior squad to 2008 TFC and as far as cup play is concerned we are not.

This year people expect result. Last year not so much.

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 12:13 PM
Things to feel positive about:

- beer garden
- Nana, DeRo (but not last night) and Serioux

errr, that's it


don't forget the weather!

:o

maninb
06-03-2009, 12:14 PM
Did anyone see one player interviewed last night and APOLOGIZE to the fans for playing like a bunch of incompetent & lazy stiffs? I sure as hell didn't...it would seem that the players are now adopting the same crap attitude as the FO!!!

TheIsland
06-03-2009, 12:15 PM
The team should know that they will NEVER walk alone. No, I'm not trying to introduce YWNWA as a chant, but I'm always impressed by supporters who go through good times as well as bad with their team. At this rate we're basically turning into a group of people who only sing when we're winning. Supporting? Not so much.


THANK YOU.

I second the thank you and I'm glad to read that some people actually know what the definition of supporters are. Going with the mentality and posting on the boards, apparently I should have shot my horse when he knocked down our first fence.

Buy some more Kleenex - my stock could use it.

Stouffville_RPB
06-03-2009, 12:15 PM
The team should know that they will NEVER walk alone. No, I'm not trying to introduce YWNWA as a chant, but I'm always impressed by supporters who go through good times as well as bad with their team. At this rate we're basically turning into a group of people who only sing when we're winning. Supporting? Not so much.

Totally agree. I don't think that most ppl here are going to start supporting another MLS squad but our frustrations and dissatisfactions should still be heard.

Looks like we are going to be more similar to Newcastle. Aside from JC.

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 12:16 PM
This year people expect result. Last year not so much.


on that last game, when MTL played here in Toronto, we expected our team to win. It was our first chance at winning anything, and it was within our hands, and ours to lose. I really don't see the point in comparing two heartbreaks.

yes, you're right that a lot more people were paying attention to the tourney this year, and using it as a marker for our progress, but it doesn't make it any less shitty that we lost it last year - in an equally shitty way.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 12:16 PM
We'd beaten Van, we'd beaten Montreal, we are doing decent enough in the league and it's still early.

The manner in which we beat Van & MTL @ BMO was hardly convincing.

nimamalek
06-03-2009, 12:17 PM
I'm not a leafs fan, expecting our team to win an amateur tournament once in 2 years or to get in the playoffs within 3 years is fair. I actually think its people like you who are the problem with Toronto sports teams, people who continually go to games and support teams even when the product is not good.

CoachGT
06-03-2009, 12:21 PM
Totally agree. I don't think that most ppl here are going to start supporting another MLS squad but our frustrations and dissatisfactions should still be heard.


QFT! True supporters are always behind the team. But as fans, we still have the opportunity to ask for quality play - if we think it means something, then the players should too. I'm pleased to hear that there was anger inside the locker room last night - there should have been. That means that there is passion, the players care. But that wasn't indicated on the field last night.

Just because you voice your displeasure with an unsatisfactory performance does not mean that you are any less a supporter, nor that you are walking away from the team.

Pookie
06-03-2009, 12:23 PM
You know what is even more telling than the result last night?

The fact is that we could still win this Canadian Championship. We just need to score 4 more goals than a 9th place USL team.

The most telling aspect of the collective confidence level is that no one seems to think that is possible.

Super
06-03-2009, 12:24 PM
Did anyone see one player interviewed last night and APOLOGIZE to the fans for playing like a bunch of incompetent & lazy stiffs? I sure as hell didn't...it would seem that the players are now adopting the same crap attitude as the FO!!!

I think they were too frustrated to speak to the media. Trust me, they are feeling like shit today. Let's not think otherwise.

TFC USA
06-03-2009, 12:27 PM
You know what is even more telling than the result last night?

The fact is that we could still win this Canadian Championship. We just need to score 4 more goals than a 9th place USL team.

The most telling aspect of the collective confidence level is that no one seems to think that is possible.

You know why?

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=14077

ExiledRed
06-03-2009, 12:29 PM
I second the thank you and I'm glad to read that some people actually know what the definition of supporters are. Going with the mentality and posting on the boards, apparently I should have shot my horse when he knocked down our first fence.

Buy some more Kleenex - my stock could use it.

There is no clear cut definition of supporter, you might think you know what the word means in this context, but I guarantee there are equally valid arguments for other definitions.

Loyal supporters in Europe are following clubs that were built on tradition, locality and community. Sure the rich teams are all about money now, but they got rich through success.

this team is nothing but a facade for an expensive tourist attraction.

Super
06-03-2009, 12:32 PM
There is no clear cut definition of supporter, you might think you know what the word means in this context, but I guarantee there are equally valid arguments for other definitions.

Loyal supporters in Europe are following clubs that were built on tradition, locality and community. Sure the rich teams are all about money now, but they got rich through success.

this team is nothing but a facade for an expensive tourist attraction.

Yes, that is true, but I still like the idea of supporters who actually stick with the team when times are tough. Sometimes I feel as if people only want to support the team when we are winning. Right now does suck, yes, but we will get our victory at one point - and it will be all the more sweet if we have stuck by our team and supported them through the rough times to see victory at the other end.. Instead of turning out backs and then re-starting our support when we win again.

Then I might as well go sit in the prawn seats.

Another thing: people seem to think that MLSE only cares about money and not winning. That makes no sense as not making the Champions League is a HUGE loss of potential income. We're not winning because MLSE and FO is incompetent. That's the problem. But I do not doubt their desire to win - as it would generate much more income.

trane
06-03-2009, 12:34 PM
^ Honeslty, what the fuck are you guys talking about? Supporters that are blind, death, and blind and cheer on command, ahving absolutely no expectation for the team. Please stop this non-sense.

trane
06-03-2009, 12:36 PM
There is no clear cut definition of supporter, you might think you know what the word means in this context, but I guarantee there are equally valid arguments for other definitions.

Loyal supporters in Europe are following clubs that were built on tradition, locality and community. Sure the rich teams are all about money now, but they got rich through success.

this team is nothing but a facade for an expensive tourist attraction.

RIGHT FUCKING ON

H Bomb
06-03-2009, 12:38 PM
Supporters that are blind, death, and blind and cheer on command, ahving absolutely no expectation for the team.

I think you might mean deaf :D;)

ExiledRed
06-03-2009, 12:44 PM
Yes, that is true, but I still like the idea of supporters who actually stick with the team when times are tough. Sometimes I feel as if people only want to support the team when we are winning. .

mate, we've been here for three years, supporting our hearts out.

How much have we won again?

Blindly supporting at this point, is like a woman who keeps going back to an abusive husband. A stand needs to be taken, or the abuse will continue.

gtaguy
06-03-2009, 12:47 PM
I don't believe that a lot of our angers are generated towards the team itself but to the management and front office that has promised so many things and yet very few have come to fruition.
Apart from the code of secrecy the front office lives by, We the supporters never get any meaningful input into how we view the product on the field.
Or the likes of which soccer teams we would like to play in a friendly, or if even we believe a friendly is needed etc:

Mo johnston only speaks when he needs to douse a fire or a rumor out. Never gives updates .

We are the pigs to ML$E Trough... Whatever they give us we eat it up.


Wish torontofc was owned by a serious and passionate group .

kingjerk
06-03-2009, 12:47 PM
I still like the idea of supporters who actually stick with the team when times are tough. Sometimes I feel as if people only want to support the team when we are winning.

If everyone involved with the team gave everything they have and they're not producing because they are just not able to compete at the same level as the other teams, then fine... I agree... support the effort.

But when a team shows up and plays hard for 5 minutes out of 90, that's where the line get's drawn.

So I guess the decision has to be made, did we just get outplayed because our players are not to the same standard as Vancouver?

Super
06-03-2009, 12:48 PM
^ Honeslty, what the fuck are you guys talking about? Supporters that are blind, death, and blind and cheer on command, ahving absolutely no expectation for the team. Please stop this non-sense.

We DO have expectations, and the players know it. They know we're happy when we win and sad when we lose. They're the same way. You're silly if you think that the players left Vancouver anything but crushed last night. They know it. Us telling them that they are all shit on a daily basis is NOT going to make them perform better - nor will it improve relations between us and them. We will become the enemy - like the critic who slams the same actor time and time again.

We have to look at what we can do to lift this team out of its depression. I'm talking here about the players. As far as the FO is concerned we can hurt them by not going to the Real Madrid game, and by not buying their gear, food and beer. But telling the players that they suck (at the stadium) will accomplish absolutely NOTHING! On the board, sure, go nuts. But come game time we should let the players know that we're on board with them and we will do ours to push them towards victory.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 12:49 PM
I second the thank you and I'm glad to read that some people actually know what the definition of supporters are. Going with the mentality and posting on the boards, apparently I should have shot my horse when he knocked down our first fence.

Buy some more Kleenex - my stock could use it.

If your horse was shit, and the people who were in charge of making it not shit were not doing their job -- then you would certainly have good reason to be unhappy about your horses lack of ability to jump over a fence.

However -- if all you want is a horse, and do not care whether it can do what you wanted it for, then you will be happy for all eternity with your horse that cannot jump a fence.

I prefer Life brand paper tissues :o

Super
06-03-2009, 12:49 PM
mate, we've been here for three years, supporting our hearts out.

How much have we won again?

Blindly supporting at this point, is like a woman who keeps going back to an abusive husband. A stand needs to be taken, or the abuse will continue.

So the answer to all of this is to do what exactly? And how will this help us accomplish the #1 stated goal of the season: to reach the play-offs.

ExiledRed
06-03-2009, 12:49 PM
We are the pigs to ML$E Trough whatever they give us we eat it up...
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/jlopez/Desktop/pigs.jpg
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/jlopez/Desktop/pigs.jpg

You cant hotlink to your own hard drive, try putting the images on photobucket.

ExiledRed
06-03-2009, 12:53 PM
So the answer to all of this is to do what exactly? And how will this help us accomplish the #1 stated goal of the season: to reach the play-offs.

The number 1 stated goal should have been CL qualification. At this point I dont care if we make the playoffs or not, I'm too disgusted. To further the analogy, that's like the abusive husband handing his wife some flowers after giving her a black eye.

Playoffs will be maximum two extra home games, CL could have been so many more.

Super
06-03-2009, 12:53 PM
If everyone involved with the team gave everything they have and they're not producing because they are just not able to compete at the same level as the other teams, then fine... I agree... support the effort.

But when a team shows up and plays hard for 5 minutes out of 90, that's where the line get's drawn.

So I guess the decision has to be made, did we just get outplayed because our players are not to the same standard as Vancouver?

Did you watch the same game as me? We did not get outplayed. We had double the amount of shots at goal than they did, the only difference is that they had the luck that we didn't have on the night. Vitti's shot on post goes in and all of a sudden we love our team again. That's a difference of a few inches. I'm not going to allow detail to change my support of this team. We're playing about as well as we're able to at this point, and the only thing setting us back is the fact that we have no DP striker. Blame falls on FO - simple as that. Our inability to score drowns the morale of the entire team. Get a SOLID striker - and it lifts the entire team.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 12:54 PM
We have to look at what we can do to lift this team out of its depression. I'm talking here about the players.

Maybe we can buy them something nice, like a fruit platter or a cake? We could also write them a letter, letting them know how happy we are with them and how it is just a game, not to be taken too seriously. Winning is not important; It is the taking part that counts :o

felipe
06-03-2009, 12:54 PM
i concur, super

By that I mean I agree with Super.

Although you are pretty funny Walnut

Super
06-03-2009, 12:56 PM
The number 1 stated goal should have been CL qualification. At this point I dont care if we make the playoffs or not, I'm too disgusted. To further the analogy, that's like the abusive husband handing his wife some flowers after giving her a black eye.

Playoffs will be maximum two extra home games, CL could have been so many more.

I honestly do not think that the players or the FO fully understand how important the Canada Cup is to us. I really don't. I remember Serioux calling it "pretty important" and "a great way for Canadian footballers to grow". Not exactly on the same level as the MLS Cup.


Maybe we can buy them something nice, like a fruit platter or a cake? We could also write them a letter, letting them know how happy we are with them and how it is just a game, not to be taken too seriously. Winning is not important; It is the taking part that counts :o

Maybe we can inject some steroids into that cake. I'm all for that. And yes, this game should be taken seriously - which is why I'm thinking ahead and focusing on the play-offs. I don't want to contribute to demoralizing our players further at this point. Saturday is coming up, and we need points to keep the team in the race.

gtaguy
06-03-2009, 12:56 PM
You cant hotlink to your own hard drive, try putting the images on photobucket.


thanks dude.

kingjerk
06-03-2009, 12:58 PM
Did you watch the same game as me? We did not get outplayed. We had double the amount of shots at goal than they did, the only difference is that they had the luck that we didn't have on the night. Vitti's shot on post goes in and all of a sudden we love our team again. That's a difference of a few inches. I'm not going to allow detail to change my support of this team. We're playing about as well as we're able to at this point, and the only thing setting us back is the fact that we have no DP striker. Blame falls on FO - simple as that. Our inability to score drowns the morale of the entire team. Get a SOLID striker - and it lifts the entire team.

Cute heel passes in heavy traffic... bunch of those shots were hail mary's from significant distance... any ball in the air was lost unless there were no whitecaps within 20 yards... an inability to carry the ball forward, resorting to long balls...

no wait, that was the houston game... no wait, that was the chicago hame....

ExiledRed
06-03-2009, 12:58 PM
Did you watch the same game as me? We did not get outplayed. We had double the amount of shots at goal than they did, the only difference is that they had the luck that we didn't have on the night. Vitti's shot on post goes in and all of a sudden we love our team again. That's a difference of a few inches. I'm not going to allow detail to change my support of this team. We're playing about as well as we're able to at this point, and the only thing setting us back is the fact that we have no DP striker. Blame falls on FO - simple as that. Our inability to score drowns the morale of the entire team. Get a SOLID striker - and it lifts the entire team.

This isnt correct. We lost by two goals.

Vitti scoring makes it 2-1.

We werent outplayed but we were outsmarted, and we certainly didnt outplay them.

They knew their limitations and played some honest, direct football, while we were running around in circles wondering why they werent getting dizzy.

If we'd just played within the limitations of the team and respected the opposition we might have come off better.

Shep
06-03-2009, 12:59 PM
Maybe we can buy them something nice, like a fruit platter or a cake? We could also write them a letter, letting them know how happy we are with them and how it is just a game, not to be taken too seriously. Winning is not important; It is the taking part that counts :o

Their livelihoods depend on winning and losing, ours don't.

I'm sure they are well aware of the gravity of the situation, Super is right, we need to get behind them so they can regain their confidence, not slam the shit out of them to the point where they are ready to give up.

Shep
06-03-2009, 01:01 PM
Did you watch the same game as me? We did not get outplayed. We had double the amount of shots at goal than they did, the only difference is that they had the luck that we didn't have on the night. Vitti's shot on post goes in and all of a sudden we love our team again. That's a difference of a few inches. I'm not going to allow detail to change my support of this team. We're playing about as well as we're able to at this point, and the only thing setting us back is the fact that we have no DP striker. Blame falls on FO - simple as that. Our inability to score drowns the morale of the entire team. Get a SOLID striker - and it lifts the entire team.

And they had Nolly.

That guy has good hands. He easily caught and held most of what came his way where another keeper might have sent it back out once or twice giving us some more opps.

TFC USA
06-03-2009, 01:01 PM
Worst part about this failure.

Is the Crew board is having a gigantic orgasm over us screwing up again.

F those putos.

Razor
06-03-2009, 01:03 PM
mate, we've been here for three years, supporting our hearts out.

How much have we won again?

Blindly supporting at this point, is like a woman who keeps going back to an abusive husband. A stand needs to be taken, or the abuse will continue.



right on!

i feel sorry for those poor saps who like taking it up the ass without ever asking any questions. :noidea:

i'm sorry but there is no excuse for not making the CCL this year.

TorontoBlades
06-03-2009, 01:05 PM
we didn't even show up until the second half. if we played like we did in the first half like we did in the second, the Whitecaps would never have had the confidence to make the runs they did all game. We came out flat, and that means to me that the players simply didn't care until it was too late

Super
06-03-2009, 01:05 PM
This isnt correct. We lost by two goals.

Vitti scoring makes it 2-1.

We werent outplayed but we were outsmarted, and we certainly didnt outplay them.

They knew their limitations and played some honest, direct football, while we were running around in circles wondering why they werent getting dizzy.

If we'd just played within the limitations of the team and respected the opposition we might have come off better.

We did lose 2-0, but if Vitti had scored the lift to the entire team would have been massive. And even if the game ended 2-1 it would've been a significantly different challenge ahead - only having to beat Montreal by 2-0. Not sure if we could even do that, but at least the chance would be there. But I agree that we were outsmarted.

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 01:06 PM
Worst part about this failure.

Is the Crew board is having a gigantic orgasm over us screwing up again.

F those putos.


they have their own problems to deal with (like the feud between FO and their own supporters)

Super
06-03-2009, 01:08 PM
right on!

i feel sorry for those poor saps who like taking it up the ass without ever asking any questions. :noidea:

i'm sorry but there is no excuse for not making the CCL this year.

I honestly don't understand this attitude, though. You seriously think that the players and the FO think that we're happy about this result? You think that THEY are happy with this result? NO ONE is happy right now. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully we'll finally get the DP striker - and grass for BMO. That's what we need to turn this team into a winning side, period. So why shit on the team when the difference between winning and losing is in the hands of the FO? I say shit on the FO. Push them to make the right decisions so we can change to be a better side. That's how you as a supporter can change things. Don't buy gear, don't buy beer, don't go to the Real Madrid friendly. That's how you do it.

TorontoBlades
06-03-2009, 01:09 PM
I honestly don't understand this attitude, though. You seriously think that the players and the FO think that we're happy about this result? You think that THEY are happy with this result? NO ONE is happy right now. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully we'll finally get the DP striker - and grass for BMO. That's what we need to turn this team into a winning side, period. So why shit on the team when the difference between winning and losing is in the hands of the FO? I say shit on the FO. Push them to make the right decisions so we can change to be a better side. That's how you as a supporter can change things. Don't buy gear, don't buy beer, don't go to the Real Madrid friendly. That's how you do it.

I think I feel worse about it than they do, yes

Walnut
06-03-2009, 01:10 PM
Their livelihoods depend on winning and losing, ours don't.

I'm sure they are well aware of the gravity of the situation, Super is right, we need to get behind them so they can regain their confidence, not slam the shit out of them to the point where they are ready to give up.

We have cheered them, until our voices are hoarse. We have stood, and clapped, and sung, and did it all again louder and with more gusto. I am not sure that the team is thinking; Oh, if only we had more people singing, and cheering, and wanting us to win -- we would start winning.

They cannot finish, and that does not come from either and abundance or lack of support, it is based on talent. Very talented players finish beautifully on a ongoing basis, talented players can finish often, ones with not as much talent find it harder to finish as often, etc. etc. etc.

Suds
06-03-2009, 01:13 PM
We DO have expectations, and the players know it. They know we're happy when we win and sad when we lose. They're the same way. You're silly if you think that the players left Vancouver anything but crushed last night. They know it. Us telling them that they are all shit on a daily basis is NOT going to make them perform better - nor will it improve relations between us and them. We will become the enemy - like the critic who slams the same actor time and time again.


I would have to agree with this point. Any competitive athlete hates to lose (or at should hate to lose). I'm as down as everyone else about the recent performances but I will wait to see how the players respond. I expect to see this team on fire come Saturday. If not, then we have very serious problems.

Super
06-03-2009, 01:15 PM
This Canada Cup is quite tricky, though. We play 3 games - win the first 2 and lose only 1, and we're already out of the tournament. One defeat and two wins, and we're out. It's pretty brutal. If we had a proper striker we would've probably won the first 2 by more than one goal, and then we could've gone to Montreal and would be through with a single goal.

Shep
06-03-2009, 01:18 PM
We have cheered them, until our voices are hoarse. We have stood, and clapped, and sung, and did it all again louder and with more gusto. I am not sure that the team is thinking; Oh, if only we had more people singing, and cheering, and wanting us to win -- we would start winning.

They cannot finish, and that does not come from either and abundance or lack of support, it is based on talent. Very talented players finish beautifully on a ongoing basis, talented players can finish often, ones with not as much talent find it harder to finish as often, etc. etc. etc.

I'm talking about the dichotomy on this board right now, I never said support was lacking. But every player has been insulted heavily on the forums because of how intensely people are taking this, and if any of them come here and read some of this knee-jerk stuff they won't be feeling very positive about the future....

We can't win every bloody match, we are a 3 year old club not Manu, and the squad has problems, but we haven't been doing badly enough to warrant all of this.

We should have won. But why? Everyone is on about MLS v USL.. blah blah, Whitecaps are coming, they are hardly USL and imo there isn't even a big gap between the two leagues.

That's why I think we should be getting behind the players, not hating them all. I know not everyone is, and I'm doing my part in providing the alternate viewpoint to what I don't like.

2 losses and we are calling for so many heads to roll...

Suds
06-03-2009, 01:23 PM
I honestly don't understand this attitude, though. You seriously think that the players and the FO think that we're happy about this result? You think that THEY are happy with this result? NO ONE is happy right now. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully we'll finally get the DP striker - and grass for BMO. That's what we need to turn this team into a winning side, period. So why shit on the team when the difference between winning and losing is in the hands of the FO? I say shit on the FO. Push them to make the right decisions so we can change to be a better side. That's how you as a supporter can change things. Don't buy gear, don't buy beer, don't go to the Real Madrid friendly. That's how you do it.

From my point of view I see the players/coaches separate from the FO.

I can see the players & coaches busting ass to turn these bad performances around. The results over the coming weeks will either prove me wrong or right. But I will be one doing my part to support the team. They can't control what's done in the FO. They have who they have on the team and they have to be the best they can with that.

However, the FO seems to have a much different agenda. In the short history of TFC we are seeing too many broken, or pushed off to a later date, promises. MLSE's history in the way they manage their business on a profit only basis with little regard for their fans is very evident. We are starting to see a trand here with TFC and it pisses me off. I'm not sure what we as fans can do. But I'm ready to support any good and creative ideas people come up with.

Shep
06-03-2009, 01:26 PM
From my point of view I see the players/coaches separate from the FO.

I can see the players & coaches busting ass to turn these bad performances around. The results over the coming weeks will either prove me wrong or right. But I will be one doing my part to support the team. They can't control what's done in the FO. They have who they have on the team and they have to be the best they can with that.

However, the FO seems to have a much different agenda. In the short history of TFC we are seeing too many broken, or pushed off to a later date, promises. MLSE's history in the way they manage their business on a profit only basis with little regard for their fans is very evident. We are starting to see a trand here with TFC and it pisses me off. I'm not sure what we as fans can do. But I'm ready to support any good and creative ideas people come up with.

I agree with this strongly, there needs to be much more transparency in their design, and plans. If we had a timeline laid out, even a proper liason to answer questions with authority it would bridge the gap between us and them a great deal.

ExiledRed
06-03-2009, 01:31 PM
2 losses and we are calling for so many heads to roll...

Do you really think it's about two losses?

Walnut
06-03-2009, 01:31 PM
2 losses and we are calling for so many heads to roll...

Recent form;

Against Crew @ BMO - 1-1 (unimpressive display)
Against Vancouver @ BMO = 1-0 (hard fought win)
Against MTL @ BMO = 1-0 (another hard fought win)
Against Chicago @ BMO = 0-2 (taken apart)
Against NE @ BMO - 3-1 (a pretty win)
Against Houston = 0-3 (bloodbath)
Against Vancouver = 0-2 (grisly)

Only one of the games TFC have played since May 1st has been what you categorize as a great display, and that was against NE. The home games against Van & MTL were terrible cliffhangers, that would appear to have been a irrelevant considering our performance against Van last night -- and the mountain we have given ourselfs to climb now.

Our games since May 1st can be displayed as such: not good, ok, ok, shit, very nice, terrible, even worse.

Super
06-03-2009, 01:31 PM
But I'm ready to support any good and creative ideas people come up with.

Don't buy ANYTHING at the stadium. Buy knock-off jerseys if you can get away with it. Do not put a dime more than you have to into the team coffers, and tell your friends to do the same. Make sure the FO understands that we'll shop again, but only if they install grass and bring us the DP striker they promised. If they start to behave like a proper club we'll once again buy their goods. That's what they care about: dollars. The coaches and players care only about results. Why would a player underperform - he'll just kill his career. Look at Ricketts.

Dirk Diggler
06-03-2009, 01:35 PM
Man ... some of the comments here after such a devastating loss makes me wonder as to how many people here (aside from mlsintoronto) are on MLSE's payroll? Supporting your team is one thing ... constantly willing to get screwed over is another.

So far, what has TFC done to earn our respect? They have no history ... they have so far failed in what most people around the world would consider a mickey mouse league ... they have shown zero initative to please the fans ... heck, they've even been surpassed at what they do best (market their franchises and make money) by another franchise (Seattle). The only ones happy with MLSE at this point should be marketting students who are getting to witness a real life example of how to generate amazing amounts of revenue on someone else's expense through an extremely marginal product.

Frank Costanza
06-03-2009, 01:35 PM
of all people Mr Costanza, you should understand the Airing of Grievances......

I don't think anyone here is turning their back on the team, but its hard to give for 3 years and never see results or major changes that could change things dramatically.
i like that answer

trane
06-03-2009, 01:37 PM
Recent form;

Against Crew @ BMO - 1-1 (unimpressive display)
Against Vancouver @ BMO = 1-0 (hard fought win)
Against MTL @ BMO = 1-0 (another hard fought win)
Against Chicago @ BMO = 0-2 (taken apart)
Against NE @ BMO - 3-1 (a pretty win)
Against Houston = 0-3 (bloodbath)
Against Vancouver = 0-2 (grisly)

Only one of the games TFC have played since May 1st has been what you categorize as a great display, and that was against NE. The home games against Van & MTL were terrible cliffhangers, that would appear to have been a irrelevant considering our performance against Van last night -- and the mountain we have given ourselfs to climb now.

Our games since May 1st can be displayed as such: not good, ok, ok, shit, very nice, terrible, even worse.

It is not just this strech, we had two years of teasing promise, but then this regretion into awfull play.

Shep
06-03-2009, 01:44 PM
Recent form;

Against Crew @ BMO - 1-1 (unimpressive display)
Against Vancouver @ BMO = 1-0 (hard fought win)
Against MTL @ BMO = 1-0 (another hard fought win)
Against Chicago @ BMO = 0-2 (taken apart)
Against NE @ BMO - 3-1 (a pretty win)
Against Houston = 0-3 (bloodbath)
Against Vancouver = 0-2 (grisly)

Only one of the games TFC have played since May 1st has been what you categorize as a great display, and that was against NE. The home games against Van & MTL were terrible cliffhangers, that would appear to have been a irrelevant considering our performance against Van last night -- and the mountain we have given ourselfs to climb now.

Our games since May 1st can be displayed as such: not good, ok, ok, shit, very nice, terrible, even worse.

What I categorize as a great display? Erm what?

Taking out your own little colourful additions to the table, that's 3 wins, 1 draw, 3 losses....and 'Hard fought win' ? LOL what because they were 1-nil? We controlled both of those matches, did you even watch them?

Not putting away the 13 chances we had isn't hard fought, it's just nail-biting.. TFC owned those matches. And we owned the 3-1 win.

Thanks for proving my point though. Our form is decent, not great, not terrible, we know where we are weak but there's still promise even in those areas. But from some of the threads here you'd think we haven't scored a goal all season.

Shep
06-03-2009, 01:50 PM
Man ... some of the comments here after such a devastating loss makes me wonder as to how many people here (aside from mlsintoronto) are on MLSE's payroll? Supporting your team is one thing ... constantly willing to get screwed over is another.

So far, what has TFC done to earn our respect? They have no history ... they have so far failed in what most people around the world would consider a mickey mouse league ... they have shown zero initative to please the fans ... heck, they've even been surpassed at what they do best (market their franchises and make money) by another franchise (Seattle). The only ones happy with MLSE at this point should be marketting students who are getting to witness a real life example of how to generate amazing amounts of revenue on someone else's expense through an extremely marginal product.


You state your opinion as if it were fact.

In my eyes TFC have put on some great performances this season already, shown plenty of promise and delivered some nice wins to the fans. We haven't scored as much as we should, haven't dominated the galaxy like some of you seem to need, but they aren't screwing you over.

And if you are even trying to suggest I have an ulterior motive in my voicing my support for the squad...yeah, bully me down so I'll agree with you, good game. Take that shit elsewhere.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 02:01 PM
Thanks for proving my point though. Our form is decent, not great, not terrible, we know where we are weak but there's still promise even in those areas. But from some of the threads here you'd think we haven't scored a goal all season.

If our form is decent -- how come we have just successfully eliminated ourselves from the Canada cup?

Looking at the league -- since May 1st; 1 win, 1 draw, 2 loss. A 25% win rate is not decent, and thinking it is decent is a delusion.

Our defender - Serioux - has the same number of goals as one of our strikers, and twice as many as the other one.

kodiakTFC
06-03-2009, 02:07 PM
It sucks but at the end of the day, I cherish that there is a team in Toronto I can actually support.

Frank Costanza
06-03-2009, 02:09 PM
It sucks but at the end of the day, I cherish that there is a team in Toronto I can actually support.
thats my poiint exactly

Shep
06-03-2009, 02:09 PM
If our form is decent -- how come we have just successfully eliminated ourselves from the Canada cup?

Looking at the league -- since May 1st; 1 win, 1 draw, 2 loss. A 25% win rate is not decent, and thinking it is decent is a delusion.

Our defender - Serioux - has the same number of goals as one of our strikers, and twice as many as the other one.


We're not responsible for how suckass MTL are right now. If there would have been a real third team in the comp it might have helped.

We hardly eliminated ourselves. We lost 1 out of 3.
2-0 is hardly a drubbing. etc, etc.

This horse is dead.

trane
06-03-2009, 02:12 PM
^ You must be joking, it is Montreal's fault that we are prety well eliminated.

Well why dont' they just let us score 5 against them? After all is that not their job to make sure we make it through?

Frank Costanza
06-03-2009, 02:13 PM
more goonage , these responses sometimes makes me question

TFC USA
06-03-2009, 02:15 PM
We're not responsible for how suckass MTL are right now. If there would have been a real third team in the comp it might have helped.

We hardly eliminated ourselves. We lost 1 out of 3.
2-0 is hardly a drubbing. etc, etc.

This horse is dead.

Yeah we did. With two 1-0 wins in which we failed to run up the score like a mofo to make sure goal diff heading into Montreal wasn't a challenge for us. Then went out and lose 2-0 because we can't finish.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 02:21 PM
Yeah we did. With two 1-0 wins in which we failed to run up the score like a mofo to make sure goal diff heading into Montreal wasn't a challenge for us. Then went out and lose 2-0 because we can't finish.

Dudes do not seem to quite grasp that beating Van & MTL @ BMO 1-0 each was not impressive. We should have fucked them over, both times. Then we go to the park in Van and get fucked over by their part-timers -- and people do not see a problem with this.

Now we have to go to MTL and score four goals, or five if the score one (6 if the score 2 LOL). And we expect this from a team that has scored zero goals in the last two games, and let in 5.

But do not worry -- be die hard and forgiving LOL

TFC RuKKuS RPB
06-03-2009, 03:22 PM
My biggest piss off from last night was Cummins' decision to play a 4-3-3 when all they needed was a tie. He could have chosen a better formation to fit the situation. I'm not saying play a 5-4-1 or anything, but they did not need to have 3 strikers. As for everyone wanting heads to roll, I think Mo needs to go!

Frank Costanza
06-03-2009, 03:50 PM
My biggest piss off from last night was Cummins' decision to play a 4-3-3 when all they needed was a tie. He could have chosen a better formation to fit the situation. I'm not saying play a 5-4-1 or anything, but they did not need to have 3 strikers. As for everyone wanting heads to roll, I think Mo needs to go!

thats the best constructive cristism of the board much agreed

to play for the tie should have been 4 4 2

ilikemusic
06-03-2009, 04:12 PM
Sorry. Being a die-hard means never putting up with bullshit.

trane
06-03-2009, 04:44 PM
My biggest piss off from last night was Cummins' decision to play a 4-3-3 when all they needed was a tie. He could have chosen a better formation to fit the situation. I'm not saying play a 5-4-1 or anything, but they did not need to have 3 strikers. As for everyone wanting heads to roll, I think Mo needs to go!

I agree with this. I was exepcting him to play for a tie, or at least to ensure the point.

Roogsy
06-03-2009, 04:50 PM
I went home driving the hole way saying "all they had to do was draw". When I couldn't fall asleep, I just kept repeating that to myself. When I finally fell asleep, I think I was saying it my sleep.

And it was the first words out of my mouth this morning.

All we had to do was tie.

Shep
06-03-2009, 08:55 PM
Sorry. Being a die-hard means never putting up with bullshit.

To you. To me it means through thick and thin.

I'm not walking out on the players over a bad result.

AND I'M DEFINITELY NOT WALKING OUT ON THE PLAYERS OVER FO PROBLEMS.

:scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf:
TILL I DIE.

Shep
06-03-2009, 08:57 PM
Dudes do not seem to quite grasp that beating Van & MTL @ BMO 1-0 each was not impressive. We should have fucked them over, both times. Then we go to the park in Van and get fucked over by their part-timers -- and people do not see a problem with this.

Now we have to go to MTL and score four goals, or five if the score one (6 if the score 2 LOL). And we expect this from a team that has scored zero goals in the last two games, and let in 5.

But do not worry -- be die hard and forgiving LOL

Dude!

Why should we have fucked them over?

By all accounts on this board we have a shit squad with no heart and a lying front office. Our players don't play for more than 5 minutes is what I've been reading.... oh and we can't finish....

SO TELL ME WHY DID THIS LOSS COME AS SUCH A SURPRISE TO YOU, AND WHY SHOULD WE HAVE FUCKED THEM OVER?

ilikemusic
06-03-2009, 08:57 PM
To you. To me it means through thick and thin.

I'm not walking out on the players over a bad result.

AND I'M DEFINITELY NOT WALKING OUT ON THE PLAYERS OVER FO PROBLEMS.

:scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf:
TILL I DIE.

Who is walking where?

Shep
06-03-2009, 08:59 PM
Who is walking where?

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=14067

No one is walking yet, but the majority have said they want to.

And most of the reasons stated are problems with MLSE. But people are keen on the idea of walking out on a game, walking out on our team.

Hooligan69
06-03-2009, 09:06 PM
I went home driving the hole way saying "all they had to do was draw". When I couldn't fall asleep, I just kept repeating that to myself. When I finally fell asleep, I think I was saying it my sleep.

And it was the first words out of my mouth this morning.

All we had to do was tie.

Yep. All we needed was a frickin' draw. Even a 0-0 result would have sufficed.

My head hurts now.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-03-2009, 09:10 PM
My biggest piss off from last night was Cummins' decision to play a 4-3-3 when all they needed was a tie. He could have chosen a better formation to fit the situation. I'm not saying play a 5-4-1 or anything, but they did not need to have 3 strikers. As for everyone wanting heads to roll, I think Mo needs to go!


Cummins wanys to play offensive attacking football...only one problem
we dont have any quality attackers..and until that changes a 4-4-2
might be the teams best option.

T_Mizz
06-03-2009, 10:00 PM
Cummins wanys to play offensive attacking football...only one problem
we dont have any quality attackers..and until that changes a 4-4-2
might be the teams best option.
This is the exact opposite of what everyone was saying before we switched to a 4-3-3 we have no wingers to play a 4-4-2 and now we have even less because ricketts seemsto have regressed.

Also I agree with Super and Shep, et al. The reaction is definitely not deserved, its not like we've had decades of failure, or an abusive owner who refuses to spend the full cap, or players thatrefuse to play for us, or a piss poor stadium. We were an expansion team just two seasons ago, yes that is no longer an excuse but going from expansion team to contender takes longer than 3 years in any sport. If this continues for 10 years and we still can't get our shit together I'll lead a walk out but right now this talk is all way too premature. Way to many fairweather fan reactions here, being a supporter to me is much like a marriage to a team. You don't cheat by supporting other teams/spouses (except ones overseas perhaps:D;)) and together you share in the joys and disappointments. Right now these reactions would be like walking out on your spouse because they let themselves go for a few years and saying "Honey I love you so much that I have to leave because you're taking advantage of me and I love you so much that I feel I deserve better". Please do not take this as bending over for MLSE I'm just saying have some measurable level of patience people please.

This Voyageurs Cup performance was not as bad as most people make it out to be, we've taken 6 of 9 possible points and if we beat montreal then its 9 out of 12 points which would normally be enough to make it through if montreal didn't bend over for all 4 of their games.