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View Full Version : I will not renew my seasons for next year



trane
06-03-2009, 09:07 AM
If there are no fundamental changes with this team. I know what the applogist will say, there are 13, 000 in waite. They are waiting becasue of the fucking atmosphere. I do not give a shit about the atmosphere, I want to watch good footy. For the most part TFC is not good footy. In fact more often then not it is painfully shit footy.

denime
06-03-2009, 09:09 AM
Yes you will,TFC will make the playoffs and everybody will be back next year.;)

trane
06-03-2009, 09:09 AM
I hope. I would love to see it. But christ there is too much pain following this team, and not enough joy.

Pachuco
06-03-2009, 09:10 AM
I can see why you are extremely pissed. But I personally will renew my season tickets. I just won't show up though and I'll scalp my tickets. Might as well make money from this shit hole of an operation.

flatpicker
06-03-2009, 09:10 AM
I hope. I would love to see it. But christ there is too much pain following this team, and not enough joy.


you could be talking about the Leafs there!

alexintoronto
06-03-2009, 09:12 AM
It's not enough to just make the playoffs after this disgrace. They have to go on a run in the playoffs. We don't have the tools to do that.

Get those tools, make a long run in the playoffs.

Maple Leaf Red
06-03-2009, 09:12 AM
I hope. I would love to see it. But christ there is too much pain following this team, and not enough joy.


YOU'RE AN EVERTON FAN TRANE! That team is never going to win anything...at all...ever!

Don't go buddy!

C.Ronaldo
06-03-2009, 09:13 AM
Im officially skipping the L.A game

my seats will be empty

Pachuco
06-03-2009, 09:14 AM
It's not enough to just make the playoffs after this disgrace. They have to go on a run in the playoffs. We don't have the tools to do that.

Get those tools, make a long run in the playoffs.

You are absolutely right. If TFC makes the playoffs I will not be satisfied, not when they went out and somehow pulled off losing the easiest tournament in Pro Sports history. They'll need to make atleast the Semi-Finals OR they'll need to win the supporter's shield in order for me to be satisfied.

T-Bird
06-03-2009, 09:16 AM
If there are no fundamental changes with this team. I know what the applogist will say, there are 13, 000 in waite. They are waiting becasue of the fucking atmosphere. I do not give a shit about the atmosphere, I want to watch good footy. For the most part TFC is not good footy. In fact more often then not it is painfully shit footy.

Ok so you have to consider the fact that TFC came from nothing. When we started we did not already have an established team like Seattle for example. We built our team solely off of draft picks and when building a team in that way it usually take 5-6 years to have something really solid. I think we have a pretty good team, although extremely inconsistent and at times, painful to watch, last night being a perfect example. But despite all that we get better every year and it would be just plain silly to give up your seats because they lose a few games.

But if you're going to I'll be more than happy to buy the rights! ;)

Beach_Red
06-03-2009, 09:18 AM
If there are no fundamental changes with this team. I know what the applogist will say, there are 13, 000 in waite. They are waiting becasue of the fucking atmosphere. I do not give a shit about the atmosphere, I want to watch good footy. For the most part TFC is not good footy. In fact more often then not it is painfully shit footy.

How big a difference do you think a really good DP striker would make to this team?

Maple Leaf Red
06-03-2009, 09:18 AM
I think some of the disconnect comes from people's expectations of how long it takes to build a team from scratch...

trane
06-03-2009, 09:18 AM
YOU'RE AN EVERTON FAN TRANE! That team is never going to win anything...at all...ever!

Don't go buddy!

I am not going as a fan. The differnce is Everton like most European clubs, are always working to be better. Some more succesfuly then overs. It is hard not to get the impression that with TFC the effort is just half cocked.

Tyler Durden
06-03-2009, 09:18 AM
I didnt renew my seasons this year due to a lot of BS from the FO, not having enough quality players and just simply I dont believe MLSE will ever be for the fans...

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 09:19 AM
here's a thought...


you know the "13,000 deep waiting list".....

how many of those people would actually still want to buy seats today?
It didn't cost anything to get on that list, but it does cost a lot to suffer like we do.

trane
06-03-2009, 09:20 AM
^ Particullarly when you sit in the Prawns.

flatpicker
06-03-2009, 09:21 AM
How big a difference do you think a really good DP striker would make to this team?


this difference would be... more goals scored!

TFC have had chances,
the midfield have set up strikers,
but they can't seem to hit the net.

Put a quality striker in those situations and we would have more goals scored, and more wins.

Pachuco
06-03-2009, 09:22 AM
I think some of the disconnect comes from people's expectations of how long it takes to build a team from scratch...

In a salary capped league? give me a break. I'm getting sick of this argument.

nimamalek
06-03-2009, 09:23 AM
Ok so you have to consider the fact that TFC came from nothing. When we started we did not already have an established team like Seattle for example. We built our team solely off of draft picks and when building a team in that way it usually take 5-6 years to have something really solid. I think we have a pretty good team, although extremely inconsistent and at times, painful to watch, last night being a perfect example. But despite all that we get better every year and it would be just plain silly to give up your seats because they lose a few games.

But if you're going to I'll be more than happy to buy the rights! ;)

let me guess you're a Leaf fan :)

Kevvv
06-03-2009, 09:24 AM
here's a thought...


you know the "13,000 deep waiting list".....

how many of those people would actually still want to buy seats today?
It didn't cost anything to get on that list, but it does cost a lot to suffer like we do.


^ Particullarly when you sit in the Prawns.


The true waiting list might be 12,500 for the cheapest seats in the supporter sections, and 500 for the more expensive seats.

olegunnar
06-03-2009, 09:24 AM
here's a thought...


you know the "13,000 deep waiting list".....

how many of those people would actually still want to buy seats today?
It didn't cost anything to get on that list, but it does cost a lot to suffer like we do.

They remind us of that waiting list number all the time to intimidate people to renew.

If you could get off the boat, then back on when you felt like it, there would not be 95% renewal.

BFin
06-03-2009, 09:25 AM
I'm on the list and will gladly take your seats.
Bumps in the road will not deter me.

trane
06-03-2009, 09:25 AM
The true waiting list might be 12,500 for the cheapest seats in the supporter sections, and 500 for the more expensive seats.

You got that right.

Pachuco
06-03-2009, 09:26 AM
here's a thought...


you know the "13,000 deep waiting list".....

how many of those people would actually still want to buy seats today?
It didn't cost anything to get on that list, but it does cost a lot to suffer like we do.

You know what's funny Parkdale? I'm starting to think that season ticket holders are actually on that waiting list. Because in my account manager I can join the waiting list and it shows what I had checked off before. So that waiting list could very well be populated by the same people who already own tickets. There's no doubt that whole waiting list thing is a farce. If MLSE didn't know this, the stadium expansion would've happened by now.

trane
06-03-2009, 09:26 AM
I'm on the list and will gladly take your seats.
Bumps in the road will not deter me.

Bumps in the road? You are kidding, we have never been on any road, we keep on getting lost in the backwoods, with no compass.

miketfcfan
06-03-2009, 09:27 AM
Everyone waiting on the list will still buy seasons when they get a chance..we live in T.O. remember? poor excuse of a hockey team that Leafs are have been selling out since i can remember and playing shit hockey..seems like the TFC are going the same way...it is purely MLSE fault!

T-Bird
06-03-2009, 09:27 AM
I think some of the disconnect comes from people's expectations of how long it takes to build a team from scratch...

Agreed 100%

Wait a few more years...HOLY SHIT how long has this city waited for the Leafs and you are all ready to turn your backs after 2.5 seasons! WOW! Then you go off on how people are not supporting to your standards if they don't chant and stand at a game!

UGH! We are all frustrated, disgusted, sickened by the result last night, they were embarassing! But come on! Don't give me this I'm going to sell my seasons, we make lots of money, we should be the best after comming from NOTHING!

Rant over :o

trane
06-03-2009, 09:28 AM
You know what's funny Parkdale? I'm starting to think that season ticket holders are actually on that waiting list. Because in my account manager I can join the waiting list and it shows what I had checked off before. So that waiting list could very well be populated by the same people who already own tickets. There's no doubt that whole waiting list thing is a farce. If MLSE didn't know this, the stadium expansion would've happened by now.

Another very valid point. It may not be all the same people, but it could easily half the list.

woolly
06-03-2009, 09:28 AM
If I might be more level headed and suggest a more reasonable course of action?

I doubt many (or even any) of use will surrender our SSH status. I suggest that we organise so that nobodsy pays until the very last day of registration (Sept 1?), at lesast that will give the MLSE boys somethign to worry about during August.

T-Bird
06-03-2009, 09:28 AM
let me guess you're a Leaf fan :)


I haven't watched a siongle hockey game since TFC came to Toronto

BFin
06-03-2009, 09:29 AM
Bumps in the road? You are kidding, we have never been on any road, we keep on getting lost in the backwoods, with no compass.
I still see no reason to be deterred from supporting the team I love despite being in the 'backwoods'.

Again, I will gladly accept your seasons.

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 09:31 AM
You know what's funny Parkdale? I'm starting to think that season ticket holders are actually on that waiting list.

good point. I guess anyone who said 'I want additional seats' would be counted too.


hell.... we haven't had a sold out home game yet this year.
there are always tons of tickets at the box office pre-game.
the scalpers practically have to give their tickets away at a loss.

bah.

TFC Tifoso
06-03-2009, 09:32 AM
I still see no reason to be deterred from supporting the team I love despite being in the 'backwoods'.

Again, I will gladly accept your seasons.

will you be making known your displeasure with last night's performance in any way at all? (walkout, concession boycott, etc.)

BFin
06-03-2009, 09:38 AM
will you be making known your displeasure with last night's performance in any way at all? (walkout, concession boycott, etc.)
I will make it known to friends who care to listen, however I know that if we boo and don't support the boys with everything we have, it will add to the chances of it happening again next game. Am I upset about last night? Sure...it looked embarassing. Do I think we may want to consider Management changes? Sure...it hasn't worked thus far. But I am not going to give up on a 2.5 year old team that I am happy to support week in week out. Through the thick...and the thin...I believe were the words the RCR used.

trane
06-03-2009, 09:38 AM
I still see no reason to be deterred from supporting the team I love despite being in the 'backwoods'.

Again, I will gladly accept your seasons.

What are we supporting? A team that has build its status on us the supporters, to attract more supporters and more money. Sure I support this team because it is our team (Toronto) team. But other then that fact, and a couple of glorious moments ( like our first goal) they have given us very little reason to support them. I am not talking about winning, but playing in a manner that you can say our team plays well, or our team playes hard, but most of the time our team is lost.

trane
06-03-2009, 09:40 AM
I will make it known to friends who care to listen, however I know that if we boo and don't support the boys with everything we have, it will add to the chances of it happening again next game. Am I upset about last night? Sure...it looked embarassing. Do I think we may want to consider Management changes? Sure...it hasn't worked thus far. But I am not going to give up on a 2.5 year old team that I am happy to support week in week out. Through the thick...and the thin...I believe were the words the RCR used.

We have had not major change. We have gone from an underwelming coach, to an inexperinced coach, who failed, to another inexperinced coach, that has shown potential, but has failed to win his first significant challenge, again inferior competitnion ( at least on paper).

Pachuco
06-03-2009, 09:42 AM
I will make it known to friends who care to listen, however I know that if we boo and don't support the boys with everything we have, it will add to the chances of it happening again next game. Am I upset about last night? Sure...it looked embarassing. Do I think we may want to consider Management changes? Sure...it hasn't worked thus far. But I am not going to give up on a 2.5 year old team that I am happy to support week in week out. Through the thick...and the thin...I believe were the words the RCR used.

You are probably right Bfin. Most of us are just venting and pissed off. We won't give up on this team and MLSE knows it :(.

MFBODD
06-03-2009, 09:42 AM
MLSE better not forget the brief history of this club and the current environment.

When I signed up for seasons with friends a good number of seats had been sold, but it wasn't until the Beckham announcement was made that sales spiked. Our play the first season was expected, but in this league you can improve your team fast. We've contributed by paying higher prices for tickets, buying a retarded amount of beer at the games and creating the best atmosphere in the league, but has the product on the pitch improved that much?

This year I've seen tickets for sale on Craigs for face or below face and that signals that demand is falling. It may take a bit of time, but eventually this will have an impact on renewals and on the waiting list for seasons.

The whole deal with Madrid is simply bad PR and adds fuel to the fire. Simply, MLSE can not treat us like Leafs fans or else we will come back to burn them in the end.

In the end I don't want to lose what we currently have. Also, what the hell is going on with our DP? We were told that we would get one and now that the other leagues are over we better hear something soon.

Beach_Red
06-03-2009, 09:44 AM
In a salary capped league? give me a break. I'm getting sick of this argument.

You're right, because the team we have under the cap is actually pretty good.

Add a DP.

It's the one thing the team could do right now - today - to get better that they aren't doing.

Do it!

T-Bird
06-03-2009, 09:45 AM
I will make it known to friends who care to listen, however I know that if we boo and don't support the boys with everything we have, it will add to the chances of it happening again next game. Am I upset about last night? Sure...it looked embarassing. Do I think we may want to consider Management changes? Sure...it hasn't worked thus far. But I am not going to give up on a 2.5 year old team that I am happy to support week in week out. Through the thick...and the thin...I believe were the words the RCR used.

Oh goodness! If the RPB's boo our team I'll be so ashamed! I imagine that this would never evr happen because we are all so awesome but the thought of it is very displeasing

alexintoronto
06-03-2009, 09:46 AM
Agreed 100%

Wait a few more years...HOLY SHIT how long has this city waited for the Leafs and you are all ready to turn your backs after 2.5 seasons! WOW! Then you go off on how people are not supporting to your standards if they don't chant and stand at a game!

UGH! We are all frustrated, disgusted, sickened by the result last night, they were embarassing! But come on! Don't give me this I'm going to sell my seasons, we make lots of money, we should be the best after comming from NOTHING!

Rant over :o

You're confusing "turning our backs" with "demanding results"

It's year 3, this isn't the NHL where it takes 5+ years, there are no excuses.

T-Bird
06-03-2009, 09:48 AM
You're confusing "turning our backs" with "demanding results"

It's year 3, this isn't the NHL where it takes 5+ years, there are no excuses.


Giving up your seasons IMO is turning your back

trane
06-03-2009, 09:49 AM
^ Why not. Why not boo? Most teams in the world have been booed by their fans at one point or the other. In the midle of the match I support my team. To be honest it has been better of late. But when you look at the overal picutre we are simply not any better then we were last year. I think we are on about the same pace for points in the league. However, we have way more away games left, we are prety much out of the Cup. When do we wake up and smell the coffee.

trane
06-03-2009, 09:52 AM
Giving up your seasons IMO is turning your back

MLSE as an organization has shown they only care about the bottom line. I cannot blame them. The only reason they will bring in the managment, and players for us to succed is if they think that there will be financial consequnces. Right now they believe that they are OK, salary cap large seaons base, they do not give two shits. SOmeone has to say enough, I will not eat shit. Or watch it.

TFC Tifoso
06-03-2009, 09:52 AM
I will make it known to friends who care to listen, however I know that if we boo and don't support the boys with everything we have, it will add to the chances of it happening again next game. Am I upset about last night? Sure...it looked embarassing. Do I think we may want to consider Management changes? Sure...it hasn't worked thus far. But I am not going to give up on a 2.5 year old team that I am happy to support week in week out. Through the thick...and the thin...I believe were the words the RCR used.

So what? Then what do Inter Milan supporters have to say that after winning 3 successive Serie A titles, the day after getting knocked out of Champions' League this year they show up at the training facility with a banner telling the coach to go back to Portugal. Are you trying to tell me they're not "real" supporters? Come on man, gimme a break.

I'm not going to buy this whole 2.5 year stuff........last night TFC got their asses handed to them by largely inferior competition. If we don't make it 100% known to FO, that we are more than their trained monkeys who jump, clap, and sing at every game then we can get used to taking up the ass (no lube) for years to come.

Jack is working with the other SG leaders to have an organised voice of displeasure during the game on Saturday......please follow his lead.

T-Bird
06-03-2009, 09:53 AM
I will not eat shit. Or watch it.

Haha! Well good for you then. I just think it's sad

Beach_Red
06-03-2009, 09:54 AM
MLSE as an organization has shown they only care about the bottom line. I cannot blame them. The only reason they will bring in the managment, and players for us to succed is if they think that there will be financial consequnces. Right now they believe that they are OK, salary cap large seaons base, they do not give two shits. SOmeone has to say enough, I will not eat shit. Or watch it.


How come they don't see the financial consequences of not being in the Champions League and getting that revenue, of not getting the revenue from playoff games?

I don't mind a company that only cares about the bottom line, I just don't understand why they don't want to maximize that bottom line?

Stryker
06-03-2009, 09:56 AM
you could be talking about the Leafs there!
TFC aren't the Leafs man. TFC don't have the storied history that the Leafs have. The waiting list isn't nearly as impressive as it sounds as the hype has worn off and alot of the people on the list wouldn't take seasons tickets now.
If MLSE think this team can coast through year after year of medocity and still sell this product to the fans they're going to be in for a rude awakening when the team ends up with nothing but 4000 casuals attending games.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 09:58 AM
^ Particullarly when you sit in the Prawns.

This term de jour - prawns - makes me LOL out loud. I have yet to find a prawn with mayonnaise sandwich, served on fresh granary bread at BMO.

Pachuco
06-03-2009, 09:58 AM
How come they don't see the financial consequences of not being in the Champions League and getting that revenue, of not getting the revenue from playoff games?

I don't mind a company that only cares about the bottom line, I just don't understand why they don't want to maximize that bottom line?

Because maximizing that bottom line takes risks and investments up front. As with anything else. Not something they are willing to do. If we have a proven striker (who probably costs us DP money) then we probably win the Canada Cup. That though is probably too much of a risk for MLSE's liking.

MrHawk
06-03-2009, 09:58 AM
Any other team when they perform poor, true fans of their product (Good or subpar), will show their displeasure. Either with booing, lack of attendance, or digging up mock graves with tombstones.

Happens with any team across North America/South America/Europe (more extreme measures are taken in the latter two).

MrHawk
06-03-2009, 10:00 AM
Because maximizing that bottom line takes risks and investments up front. As with anything else. Not something they are willing to do. If we have a proven striker (who probably costs us DP money) then we probably win the Canada Cup. That though is probably too much of a risk for MLSE's liking.

If we need a DP to win a 3 team tournament involving 2 current lower tiered teams, then we have bigger fish to fry.

T-Bird
06-03-2009, 10:02 AM
Any other team when they perform poor, true fans of their product (Good or subpar), will show their displeasure. Either with booing, lack of attendance, or digging up mock graves with tombstones.

Happens with any team across North America/South America/Europe (more extreme measures are taken in the latter two).


I'll dig a grave if we don't beat Montreal

TFC Tifoso
06-03-2009, 10:02 AM
Any other team when they perform poor, true fans of their product (Good or subpar), will show their displeasure. Either with booing, lack of attendance, or digging up mock graves with tombstones.

Happens with any team across North America/South America/Europe (more extreme measures are taken in the latter two).

no no not here....god forbid! :rolleyes:......some will go back for more with a smile on their face!

wow....looks like we can teach the supporters in Europe sooooo much about how to support a team, right? They've had it all wrong!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

TFCREDNWHITE
06-03-2009, 10:03 AM
Fuck this bullshit!! I am so sick of garbage play!!

BFin
06-03-2009, 10:03 AM
So what? Then what do Inter Milan supporters have to say that after winning 3 successive Serie A titles, the day after getting knocked out of Champions' League this year they show up at the training facility with a banner telling the coach to go back to Portugal. Are you trying to tell me they're not "real" supporters? Come on man, gimme a break.

I'm not going to buy this whole 2.5 year stuff........last night TFC got their asses handed to them by largely inferior competition. If we don't make it 100% known to FO, that we are more than their trained monkeys who jump, clap, and sing at every game then we can get used to taking up the ass (no lube) for years to come.

Jack is working with the other SG leaders to have an organised voice of displeasure during the game on Saturday......please follow his lead.
Please don't mis-construe my post into a supporters pissing contest. I in no way shape or form called anyone out on being less of a supporter. I merely stated I wasn't going to boo my own team, and would gladly accept the season tickets of anyone who is lucky enough to have them. Stop attacking my personal opinion and utilize your anger elsewhere. I will not tell Cummins to go home, because frankly it does nothing for the morale of the team heading into a busy stretch of home games that we need to get points in.
No team goes without it's slip ups during the course of a season, I am not going to jump overboard based on one loss in the Nutrilite Championships. We still have a season at hand.
I will follow his lead at my own discretion. If I don't agree with it, I will stand and do my thing, no offence to others.
:scarf:

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 10:04 AM
This term de jour - prawns - makes me LOL out loud. I have yet to find a prawn with mayonnaise sandwich, served on fresh granary bread at BMO.


I have yet to find anything remotely close to food at BMO.
they used to have a decent Montreal smoked meat sandwich,
but they got rid of that after the first year.

BFin
06-03-2009, 10:05 AM
no no not here....god forbid! :rolleyes:......some will go back for more with a smile on their face!

wow....looks like we can teach the supporters in Europe sooooo much about how to support a team, right? They've had it all wrong!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
oye not this European shit again.
No one is trying to be.
We are North Americans...we are acting as such.

TorontoBlades
06-03-2009, 10:11 AM
this is the most frustrating time i've ever had supporting a football club

....AND I SUPPORT SHEFFIELD UNITED :(

this is the end of the line for me. I've been patient...but we got beat by a team that used to get beat (every once in a while) by the Toronto Lynx

T-Bird
06-03-2009, 10:12 AM
So what? Then what do Inter Milan supporters have to say that after winning 3 successive Serie A titles, the day after getting knocked out of Champions' League this year they show up at the training facility with a banner telling the coach to go back to Portugal. Are you trying to tell me they're not "real" supporters? Come on man, gimme a break.

I'm not going to buy this whole 2.5 year stuff........last night TFC got their asses handed to them by largely inferior competition. If we don't make it 100% known to FO, that we are more than their trained monkeys who jump, clap, and sing at every game then we can get used to taking up the ass (no lube) for years to come.

Jack is working with the other SG leaders to have an organised voice of displeasure during the game on Saturday......please follow his lead.

I'm just asking a question here so please don't jump down my throat, asking for your opinion...Do you think that we are going to be able to change the team by not chanting and cheering at a game and by booing or whatever instead? Do you think that they are going to fire Mo, get a better, more experienced coach and pick up super star players because we show our displeasure at a game?

I don't know, I kind of think people are going to keep buying tickets and keep going to the games. I do agree that we can't take it up the ass and pretend to be happy with their performance but if they beat Montreal and somehow, by some miracle beat Vancouver on goal diff what will your attitude be then?

ensco
06-03-2009, 10:12 AM
Not specific to TFC, but these "waiting lists" are the biggest joke in professional sports.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/display.php?id=37109

Don Julio
06-03-2009, 10:13 AM
If there are no fundamental changes with this team. I know what the applogist will say, there are 13, 000 in waite. They are waiting becasue of the fucking atmosphere. I do not give a shit about the atmosphere, I want to watch good footy. For the most part TFC is not good footy. In fact more often then not it is painfully shit footy.

kthxbye

trane
06-03-2009, 10:16 AM
this is the most frustrating time i've ever had supporting a football club

....AND I SUPPORT SHEFFIELD UNITED :(

this is the end of the line for me. I've been patient...but we got beat by a team that used to get beat (every once in a while) by the Toronto Lynx

At least at SHeffield United, your team can play football, to often our guys look like they have no clue.

trane
06-03-2009, 10:17 AM
kthxbye

To be honest, you are not an RPB, and therefore I realy do not give a shit about your opinion.

trane
06-03-2009, 10:19 AM
oye not this European shit again.
No one is trying to be.
We are North Americans...we are acting as such.

I am not. I am a AC Milan/Azzurri loving Milano Wop, and I am always going to act like one. Thank you.


[ It seems to work for them]

Maple Leaf Red
06-03-2009, 10:23 AM
In a salary capped league? give me a break. I'm getting sick of this argument.

Sometimes I hate hearing the truth too.

Keep in mind, before your make a rant in reply, that I would be down with whatever is done to let the players know that they've embarrassed us.

elvis
06-03-2009, 10:29 AM
Oh goodness! If the RPB's boo our team I'll be so ashamed! I imagine that this would never evr happen because we are all so awesome but the thought of it is very displeasing

If it's good enough for Lazio fans, it's good enough for us.

Mark in Ottawa
06-03-2009, 10:30 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC_fans
"The mandate of the Red Patch Boys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Patch_Boys) (RPBs) is to support and promote Toronto FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC) throughout Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) and to help contribute to the atmosphere at all TFC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC) home games, in addition to away games including Columbus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus,_Ohio), Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago), Los Angeles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles) and Dallas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas)."

I am still a fan and an RPB.
I just have to think... if the supporters feel bad about what had happened lately...
Imagine how the players and management of TFC must feel.

No one plays to lose. I will take what enjoyment I can from the fact that we have domestic football to cheer for.

"Toronto till I die" was meant to be literal and not figurative... right?

elvis
06-03-2009, 10:30 AM
I'm starting to think that season ticket holders are actually on that waiting list.

I am a SSH and on the waiting list.

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 10:31 AM
"Toronto till I die" was meant to be literal and not figurative... right?


can you actually die from a broken heart?

TFC Tifoso
06-03-2009, 10:32 AM
I'm just asking a question here so please don't jump down my throat, asking for your opinion...Do you think that we are going to be able to change the team by not chanting and cheering at a game and by booing or whatever instead? Do you think that they are going to fire Mo, get a better, more experienced coach and pick up super star players because we show our displeasure at a game?

I don't know, I kind of think people are going to keep buying tickets and keep going to the games. I do agree that we can't take it up the ass and pretend to be happy with their performance but if they beat Montreal and somehow, by some miracle beat Vancouver on goal diff what will your attitude be then?


I won't jump down your throat.....I don't do that contrary to what others think.....tone is lost over a message board and I'm not sending messages in an angry tone...

Now with that out of the way, yeah I think we can. This team has been marketed not on the on-field product, but on us, the supporters. Now, if we threaten to take that away for a game (or two or three or whatever it takes), then the message may be sent that they can't rely on us forever....at some point the product on the field will have to stand on its own. Right now it is not.

And if following this protest they do go into Montreal and smash them, then I will be happy to be a part of the supporters who lit a fire under their ass, and made the organization realize we aren't to be taken for granted.

jloome
06-03-2009, 10:35 AM
Bfin: "Stop attacking my personal opinion"

It's a discussion board mate, that's what it's here for. Besides which, your opinion seems generally to be that nothing will ever deter your support. While some may see "my country right or wrong" as admirable, people who act on logic recognize that wrong is wrong.

If you don't stand up to a shit product being sold to you at full-value prices, you're a sheep, plain and simple. Having a spine doens't make you subversive. Failing to act at all does.

Mark in Ottawa
06-03-2009, 11:09 AM
can you actually die from a broken heart?
I have heard that it is possible :(

And I don't even listen to Country & Western.

Laurignano
06-03-2009, 12:40 PM
I am not. I am a AC Milan/Azzurri loving Milano Wop, and I am always going to act like one. Thank you.


[ It seems to work for them]

I knew there was a reason why I liked you all along lol I am going to the Milan game vs Inter in Boston coming up. But anyways back on topic, we shouldn't stand for this at all and I hope we can create a protest during the next match.

rocker
06-03-2009, 12:44 PM
I'll renew my tickets. hopefully this weeds out the true fans ;)
real fans don't jump ship after 2.5 seasons ;)

(uh oh, am I making a distinction between true and fake fans that people make about me when I say I don't want to stand and chant.... shame!) ;)

Last night pissed me off like nothing else, but I'm not gonna take off.

ExiledRed
06-03-2009, 12:47 PM
If I might be more level headed and suggest a more reasonable course of action?

I doubt many (or even any) of use will surrender our SSH status. I suggest that we organise so that nobodsy pays until the very last day of registration (Sept 1?), at lesast that will give the MLSE boys somethign to worry about during August.

And deny them any interest to boot.

felipe
06-03-2009, 01:01 PM
Anyone else notice that the stadium is alot emptier this year anyways?

I'm half hoping we continue to shit the bed so I can get my seasons for next year.

Undeniably, The ticket has lost some of its lustre for much of the TO area.

ExiledRed
06-03-2009, 01:04 PM
Anyone else notice that the stadium is alot emptier this year anyways?

I'm half hoping we continue to shit the bed so I can get my seasons for next year.

Undeniably, The ticket has lost some of its lustre for much of the TO area.

You want the team to be crap, so you can get tickets in a stadium without it's atmosphere?

Then you can show us all what a 'real supporter' you are.

Good show.

TorontoBlades
06-03-2009, 01:08 PM
At least at SHeffield United, your team can play football, to often our guys look like they have no clue.

my point exactly - I can take getting bad breaks, losing in the playoff final, getting releagted on the last day, etc, etc....because the Blades come out to play...hard...every match, and the chips fall where they do.


these guys don't - and that doesn;t warrant foregiveness IMO

felipe
06-03-2009, 01:11 PM
I did say 'half-hoping'...

Anyways its not really my 'bag' to show anyone 'how good a supporter I am'

The people that provide that atmosphere will always be there.

Chill out super sensitive guy

trane
06-03-2009, 01:34 PM
my point exactly - I can take getting bad breaks, losing in the playoff final, getting releagted on the last day, etc, etc....because the Blades come out to play...hard...every match, and the chips fall where they do.


these guys don't - and that doesn;t warrant foregiveness IMO

Agreed. That is the point some are missing. It is not only that we lost, Chlesea lost to Barca, but they played with everything they had, it is the quality and heart it is just not there enough of the time. You cannot keep on ignoring that.

Canadian Blue
06-05-2009, 03:22 PM
I can see why you are extremely pissed. But I personally will renew my season tickets. I just won't show up though and I'll scalp my tickets. Might as well make money from this shit hole of an operation.

+1 :dita:

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-05-2009, 03:29 PM
If anyone is looking to offload tickets in 112, shoot me a pm... :D

TFC07
06-05-2009, 03:33 PM
A lot of fans are on same boat as you. It is so frustrating to watch this team play.

Heck, I can go to a local park and have more fun watching people play soccer there than wasting my money to watch TFC play.

TorCanSoc
06-05-2009, 03:40 PM
I haven't watched a siongle hockey game since TFC came to Toronto

This is bizarre. I'm the same way, and I still hit the ice a bit mroe than once a week. Crazy. I think, however, if the Leafs make the playoffs, I'll hop on that wagon.

RedRum
06-05-2009, 03:54 PM
Having a spine doens't make you subversive. Failing to act at all does.

That's sig material right there. Couldn't agree more.

Dozitwin
06-05-2009, 03:54 PM
Dude my team in the UK just got relegated for the 2nd time in three years. They haven't played good footy in 3 years. Given the opportunity I'd pick up season tickets for them in a second.

As for TFC, they have only been playing for 2.5 years, next year I'll be renewing my season tickets regardless of the outcome of this year. It has nothing to do with the atmosphere but rather I know the best footy is yet to come.

Maple Leaf Red
06-05-2009, 03:56 PM
And deny them any interest to boot.
This is actually a really good idea.

RedRum
06-05-2009, 03:56 PM
People are on crack if they think it takes time to build a winner in this league, isn't MLS ranked 70th or something world-wide as a league? Didn't we have more allocation $ to spend than anyone else? NO MORE EXCUSES!! You can't compare the other sports where the world's best play in North American leagues - obviously an expansion franchise is going to take a while to win under those circumstances.

Look at Seattle. Look at Chicago their first year. The right guys at the top making good decisions produces a winner. Instead we get Mo FFS. You guys want to sit by and do nothing while we continue to suck?

Some of you may ridicule the OP for suggesting he wont renew. I see him as a pioneer - maybe the first of many more to come. When the supporters get fed up and don't bother coming, TFC will be playing in front of 8000 tops. Those that think that could never happen should go read ESC101's post again.



- Having a spine doens't make you subversive. Failing to act at all does.

rocker
06-05-2009, 03:57 PM
Look at Seattle. Look at Chicago their first year. .

i think you need to revise your theory ;)

Look at San Jose, look at Chivas, look at Real Salt Lake.

All finished dead last or near last in their first seasons and Chivas + RSL took a number of years to get up to respectability. San Jose is looking like crap in year 2. Frank Yallop won a cup with San Jose in the old days -- did he suddenly get dumb? or maybe is it not that easy to put together a winning expansion team?

So 2 of 6 expansion teams have done well in season 1.

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-05-2009, 03:58 PM
Dude my team in the UK just got relegated for the 2nd time in three years. They haven't played good footy in 3 years. Given the opportunity I'd pick up season tickets for them in a second.

As for TFC, they have only been playing for 2.5 years, next year I'll be renewing my season tickets regardless of the outcome of this year. It has nothing to do with the atmosphere but rather I know the best footy is yet to come.
Yep... It's about being there through bad times and good times. Tough love and voicing of displeasure is needed at times like these, but when I get TFC season's, I'm not giving them up (except, you know, to upgrade into 112...) come hell, high water or Voyageurs Cup losses galore.

torontocelt
06-05-2009, 04:22 PM
Some of the moaning that is going around these boards is insane and pretty depressing to be honest. All of you have only supported the team for two and a half seasons max, for those ready to give up already were you actually fans in the first place? There are people all over the world who support teams that have never won squat and they have been supporting them for years and years. I would love for all the whiners to speak to them about 'pain' as after two and a half years I doubt you even know what pain is? Some people are just feeding off the frenzy created on these boards and wondering how they can come up with a statement which is more shocking than the previous. The 'I'm not renewing my seasons due to the pain' complaint and the 'lets sue the MLSE for the Madrid game' are really out there and probably my two favourites so far, I fear yet though that they can and will be beaten by someone.

AL-MO
06-05-2009, 04:31 PM
Yep... It's about being there through bad times and good times. Tough love and voicing of displeasure is needed at times like these, but when I get TFC season's, I'm not giving them up (except, you know, to upgrade into 112...) come hell, high water or Voyageurs Cup losses galore.

You could start by becoming a member ;)

Jeff s
06-05-2009, 04:35 PM
If there are no fundamental changes with this team. I know what the applogist will say, there are 13, 000 in waite. They are waiting becasue of the fucking atmosphere. I do not give a shit about the atmosphere, I want to watch good footy. For the most part TFC is not good footy. In fact more often then not it is painfully shit footy.

Cool where do you sit, my friend is looking for season tix.

trane
06-05-2009, 04:43 PM
^ I sit on my ass.

jazzy
06-05-2009, 05:05 PM
I didnt renew my seasons this year due to a lot of BS from the FO, not having enough quality players and just simply I dont believe MLSE will ever be for the fans...


How about the Real Madrid fiasco; btwn 100 & 200 $; for tickets?? When Seattle has CHELSEA and Bocca free for regular season ticket holders....they have a sriker don't they?...

BRed
06-05-2009, 05:47 PM
I hope. I would love to see it. But christ there is too much pain following this team, and not enough joy.


You just contradicted yourself. If TFC makes the playoffs it wont be because the play "good footy" but because they got some lucky goals and bounces <--and that is the most disguisting type of soccer. I want to see a better product on the field not the type of play that resembles a high school team. I used to watch every TFC game and the entire 90 minutes. Now I don't mind if I miss a game and sometimes I flip channels when I see how the game is developing. Look at the stands, and the lack of fans dwindling by game, people are tired upset and they aren't going to take anymore of it!

trane
06-05-2009, 05:51 PM
^ I do not think that they can make the playoffs untill they start playing consistently well. They have too many road games to simply make it in by lucky goals. Plus I think that for the most part luck is a question of creating opportunities to get lucky. You will not get lucky, if you cannot consistently put good shots on goal, for example, at the other end you will be unlucky if you let opposing players live in your box.

Hooligan69
06-05-2009, 05:51 PM
TFC will win on Saturday against LA, people will celebrate and all negativity will be forgotten until the next time we're brutally raped on the pitch. People will come back next season, pay the inflated cost for season tickets, waste a chunk of cash on overpriced beer and act like everything is fine and dandy until our season bombs again. Content with mediocrity.

trane
06-05-2009, 05:52 PM
^ We need to push this time around. We cannot let it go, untill we see significant change.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-05-2009, 05:53 PM
How about the Real Madrid fiasco; btwn 100 & 200 $; for tickets?? When Seattle has CHELSEA and Bocca free for regular season ticket holders....they have a sriker don't they?...


Seattle has more seating options then BMO..they can charge regular or a tad higher and make out oK..we have a 20,000 seater, and no the Dome is not an option..BMO is our home...Im bet the tickets along the east and west sides go for no more the $150 and the Supporters section $90-$100,
the game is on Gol so TFC/MLSE can control the revenue from the ads, and the on field ads.

jazzy
06-05-2009, 05:56 PM
:drinking:
You just contradicted yourself. If TFC makes the playoffs it wont be because the play "good footy" but because they got some lucky goals and bounces <--and that is the most disguisting type of soccer. I want to see a better product on the field not the type of play that resembles a high school team. I used to watch every TFC game and the entire 90 minutes. Now I don't mind if I miss a game and sometimes I flip channels when I see how the game is developing. Look at the stands, and the lack of fans dwindling by game, people are tired upset and they aren't going to take anymore of it!

True why can't we play ball control; for instance when u get the ball your pass is not constantly given away...try counting the giveaways...then again it'll drive u to buy more beer which is trying to be avoided this Saturday....

Hooligan69
06-05-2009, 05:58 PM
^ We need to push this time around. We cannot let it go, untill we see significant change.

I couldn't agree more, trane. No let up until significant changes are made and the product on the pitch improves.

trane
06-05-2009, 06:00 PM
^ It has to be. Otherwise things will get ugly in year four.

billygrieveuk
06-05-2009, 06:23 PM
I hope. I would love to see it. But christ there is too much pain following this team, and not enough joy.

i personally dont mind the struggle, and the heartbreak and torment that goes along with it.

Patience is required in football, good things will happen.

(this nutralite fukup wasn't right though. weekday games this summer and fall....would have been magic.)

colman1860
06-05-2009, 06:24 PM
I understand that people are upset, and rightly so. But keep in mind that it's only been two (yes, very painful) losses. By all means, don't renew your seasons. But don't be surprised if people call you a fairweather fan.

Hooligan69
06-05-2009, 06:25 PM
I understand that people are upset, and rightly so. But keep in mind that it's only been two (yes, very painful) losses. By all means, don't renew your seasons. But don't be surprised if people call you a fairweather fan.

My anger extends far beyond two losses.

rocker
06-05-2009, 06:55 PM
My anger extends far beyond two losses.

what about the 4 wins and 4 ties this season? angry about that too?

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-05-2009, 07:09 PM
You could start by becoming a member ;)
I plan to finally renew this weekend, it sounds stupid, but until about a month ago I had no job and therefore literally couldn't pay the $15... :(

Hooligan69
06-05-2009, 07:11 PM
what about the 4 wins and 4 ties this season? angry about that too?

Yes, of course. I am regularly angered and disappointed by satisfactory results.

windsorlad111
06-05-2009, 07:37 PM
every time I go I enjoy myself. you can prise my seasons from my cold dead hands. watch them get a result tomorrow and bitching and moaning on these boards will drop by half.

Yohan
06-05-2009, 07:40 PM
every time I go I enjoy myself. you can prise my seasons from my cold dead hands. watch them get a result tomorrow and bitching and moaning on these boards will drop by half.
srsly. every time TFC loses, it's like watching a girl on PMS rage here. (no offence to girls)

Hooligan69
06-05-2009, 07:42 PM
srsly. every time TFC loses, it's like watching a girl on PMS rage here. (no offence to girls)

LOL So true.

Chevy
06-05-2009, 07:47 PM
LOL So true.

video please?

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-05-2009, 08:06 PM
srsly. every time TFC loses, it's like watching a girl on PMS rage here. (no offence to girls)
well put... :D

Bars92
06-05-2009, 09:14 PM
I hope you wingey cunts don't renew your season tickets, so i can get seasons!:D

Chevy
06-05-2009, 09:21 PM
I hope you wingey cunts don't renew your season tickets, so i can get seasons!:D

lol.

Its funny - if you're not going to renew your seasons for next year, then why the f**k do you go and start a discussion thread on the website of the supporters group of the team you're deserting? :icon_bs:

PRB
06-05-2009, 09:41 PM
I'm on the waiting list and I am not applying for the atmosphere and I'd take the ticket in a heart-beat if I could.

trane
06-05-2009, 10:37 PM
Since so many have expressed interest in them, I have decided as follows.


I would rather pay 10 times what I pay for them now and burn them, then let any one of you come into our stadium on a regular basis with your weak "cheerleading for MLSE not matter how bad if fucks our team", bullshit.


The point was, and I understand that it was a simple one, and therefore lost on so many sophisticated minds, that we have to take a stand, and if it ment threatening not to keep buying this product so be it. Wake the fuck it is not about one, or even a serise of losses, this organizations has a culture of mediocraty, which has to challanged not tacitly accepted, by so called supporters of the club.

trane
06-05-2009, 10:39 PM
Again the point is lost on so many of you.

torontocelt
06-05-2009, 10:56 PM
Any chance of getting your season Trane, I want to continue the fight for you from within?

Roogsy
06-05-2009, 11:27 PM
I have a friend who told me this week he isn't renewing either. He realizes that somebody on the list will snatch them up but he can't justify the costs to himself or his family simply to feel frustrated. I would say there are others in the stadium that feel that way and I can understand how they feel.

I personally would rather stay and continue to be a consumer that expresses his feelings and helps improve things in whatever way I can. This team will do great things. Not this year (obviously) but they will. I will continue to give the boys on the field my support and continue to object when the Front Office does something that I feel goes against the ultimate goal of creating the best football club in North America.

If that means occasionally complaining or protesting...it's a small price to pay to eventually be a part of something great. Just my 2 pennies worth.

Sonny Cheeba
06-05-2009, 11:34 PM
trane, you're my boy. i'm down with your decision and i'm thinking the same.

BC101
06-05-2009, 11:35 PM
trane, you're my boy. i'm down with your decision and i'm thinking the same.
Trane might be the wisest person of us all...

Roogsy
06-05-2009, 11:59 PM
It can't be said that the fans and supporters on this site weren't wrong though. Despite the incredulity on the board, people realized that while TFC will continue to fill the stands, the very fact that there ARE people willing to give up their seasons tickets and there ARE people who are very unhappy means the popularity is not limitless, and that does not bode well in general. Instead of continuing to trend upward, they are risking plateauing right here where we are. That would mean, no stadium expansion. No grass. No DP.

Because if people are disappointed enough to do this...how much do you want to bet TV numbers will reflect the same? And THAT is not good at all. Not for anyone. Sponsorship money will stop growing. TV revenue will flatten or decline. And eventually attendance at the stadium will decline as well. Sure there will continue to be sell out on the season ticket level...but the buzz will be gone.

So yeah...BMO Field will continue to be sold out for a long time...but any dreams of improvement will go by the wayside. And all this for no good reason. It's not like things can't be done to avoid this.

onemanbarmyarmy
06-06-2009, 05:08 AM
Try talking to a Hibs supporter and see how he can't wash his 40 year old scarf " because there are so many tears in it that it will disintegrate." Leave if you want but that is sad. You are what we used to call the MTV generation (I think you are now called the ADD gen. (note all abrv.)). Go support Man U and leave my precious Everton to the true supporters while you are at it.

Red Patch CA
06-06-2009, 07:24 AM
I looked out the window this morning and saw blue sky, bright sun. Great day for a football game. Can't wait.
And I will be wearing my TFC jersey.
Too bad some of you have lost the joy. Bitterness hurts only yourselves.

trane
06-06-2009, 07:29 AM
Onemanbarmyarmy.

No my son, you are the MTV generation, always giving me the same old answers. Not realy figuring out the problems and analysing what is realy going on. But simply thinking they have it all figured out. There is a bunch of you that just give me the old tiered lines over and over again. This is why corporate ownership like ours can feed you shit, and you call it chocolate.

Leave Everton out of this discussion. By the way if you read carefully as I said I am selling my season. To make sure one of you "true supporters" do not get my seat.

trane
06-06-2009, 07:32 AM
I looked out the window this morning and saw blue sky, bright sun. Great day for a football game. Can't wait.
And I will be wearing my TFC jersey.
Too bad some of you have lost the joy. Bitterness hurts only yourselves.


So you will go against what the majority of the RPB have decided. Congratulations. You are a true supporter. You will were a corporate logo no matter what the SG decides good for you. Maybe the MLSE can organize a real "special" social club for special people like you.


I do note that you like to use the RPB name thought. Interesting.

denime
06-06-2009, 07:35 AM
I looked out the window this morning and saw blue sky, bright sun. Great day for a football game. Can't wait.
And I will be wearing my TFC jersey.
Too bad some of you have lost the joy. Bitterness hurts only yourselves.

It's nice to see when members of our SG go their individual way no matter what.:rolleyes:

tfcfans
06-06-2009, 07:40 AM
This is an interesting topic -

I think the Maple Leafs model is completely unique in Toronto and should not be used as a basis for comparison for "blind" renewals no matter how bad the product - The Leafs have a historical and cultural resonance with the City that no other franchise has ever had for a sustained period. The Blue Jays seem to me to be a better example ("new team" (1977) and new stadium (1989)) - From 1989-1994 the Jays sold close to capacity at a 50,000 seat stadium for 81 dates a year (approx. 4,000,000 tickets) - When something is popular in Toronto people will "flock and pay" out the nose to be a part of "something cool". The Jays also had 10,000 plus on a waiting list to buy their precious seats (and even 500 level seats at $10 X 81 games would cost as much as Dark Greys in BMO - so it wasn't beacuse they were cheap either!). BUT WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED - The team that once was great (heck they actually won two championships!), started to become average in 1994 and the strike killed the rest of the interest. Even after the strike, interest in the city waned immediately and the entire "waiting list" of thousands did not snap up the tickets as had been thought by the front office. They have never recovered as a result, and people in the city looked for other shiny toys to play with (ie. Raptors). By the way - the Jays are actually pretty good this year and they had 15,000 (!) at the game last night to see one of the best pitchers in baseball this year - obviously "baseball fans" are on the decline -

As much as we RPB think this is a "hot ticket" in this town - it is not really so - you can buy tickets to every game (there are only 15!) for cost or less and there are more and more empty seats at our "sold out" stadium.

I love having soccer in the city again (I remember seeing the Blizzard play at the Exhibition!) - but if MLSE thinks this town's support is blind and limitless they are dead-wrong (ie. even the Argos who used to draw 30,000+ at the Ex for many games in the 70's and early 80's and are now begging fans to buy a ticket for their product!) - I agree with a previous poster who said that they will be playing to 12,000 or so die-hards in 5 years if the FO does not think more about the product they put on the field and how they treat their customers as well - moving the regular season game for Real Madrid, and putting in grass for that one game is absolutely ridiculous and is a complete slap in the face to both the players (why was any one shocked that DeRo was pissed?!) and the fans who support them - asking for ludicrous prices for that RM game is just the cherry on top.

Sorry for the rant - back to regular programming....

denime
06-06-2009, 07:46 AM
Thanks for the rant!

elmo
06-06-2009, 07:49 AM
Can we leave the Leafs out fo this please :)

Pachuco
06-06-2009, 08:00 AM
This is an interesting topic -

I think the Maple Leafs model is completely unique in Toronto and should not be used as a basis for comparison for "blind" renewals no matter how bad the product - The Leafs have a historical and cultural resonance with the City that no other franchise has ever had for a sustained period. The Blue Jays seem to me to be a better example ("new team" (1977) and new stadium (1989)) - From 1989-1994 the Jays sold close to capacity at a 50,000 seat stadium for 81 dates a year (approx. 4,000,000 tickets) - When something is popular in Toronto people will "flock and pay" out the nose to be a part of "something cool". The Jays also had 10,000 plus on a waiting list to buy their precious seats (and even 500 level seats at $10 X 81 games would cost as much as Dark Greys in BMO - so it wasn't beacuse they were cheap either!). BUT WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED - The team that once was great (heck they actually won two championships!), started to become average in 1994 and the strike killed the rest of the interest. Even after the strike, interest in the city waned immediately and the entire "waiting list" of thousands did not snap up the tickets as had been thought by the front office. They have never recovered as a result, and people in the city looked for other shiny toys to play with (ie. Raptors). By the way - the Jays are actually pretty good this year and they had 15,000 (!) at the game last night to see one of the best pitchers in baseball this year - obviously "baseball fans" are on the decline -

As much as we RPB think this is a "hot ticket" in this town - it is not really so - you can buy tickets to every game (there are only 15!) for cost or less and there are more and more empty seats at our "sold out" stadium.

I love having soccer in the city again (I remember seeing the Blizzard play at the Exhibition!) - but if MLSE thinks this town's support is blind and limitless they are dead-wrong (ie. even the Argos who used to draw 30,000+ at the Ex for many games in the 70's and early 80's and are now begging fans to buy a ticket for their product!) - I agree with a previous poster who said that they will be playing to 12,000 or so die-hards in 5 years if the FO does not think more about the product they put on the field and how they treat their customers as well - moving the regular season game for Real Madrid, and putting in grass for that one game is absolutely ridiculous and is a complete slap in the face to both the players (why was any one shocked that DeRo was pissed?!) and the fans who support them - asking for ludicrous prices for that RM game is just the cherry on top.

Sorry for the rant - back to regular programming....

Really good post.

boysblue
06-06-2009, 08:05 AM
This is an interesting topic -

I think the Maple Leafs model is completely unique in Toronto and should not be used as a basis for comparison for "blind" renewals no matter how bad the product - The Leafs have a historical and cultural resonance with the City that no other franchise has ever had for a sustained period. The Blue Jays seem to me to be a better example ("new team" (1977) and new stadium (1989)) - From 1989-1994 the Jays sold close to capacity at a 50,000 seat stadium for 81 dates a year (approx. 4,000,000 tickets) - When something is popular in Toronto people will "flock and pay" out the nose to be a part of "something cool". The Jays also had 10,000 plus on a waiting list to buy their precious seats (and even 500 level seats at $10 X 81 games would cost as much as Dark Greys in BMO - so it wasn't beacuse they were cheap either!). BUT WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED - The team that once was great (heck they actually won two championships!), started to become average in 1994 and the strike killed the rest of the interest. Even after the strike, interest in the city waned immediately and the entire "waiting list" of thousands did not snap up the tickets as had been thought by the front office. They have never recovered as a result, and people in the city looked for other shiny toys to play with (ie. Raptors). By the way - the Jays are actually pretty good this year and they had 15,000 (!) at the game last night to see one of the best pitchers in baseball this year - obviously "baseball fans" are on the decline -

As much as we RPB think this is a "hot ticket" in this town - it is not really so - you can buy tickets to every game (there are only 15!) for cost or less and there are more and more empty seats at our "sold out" stadium.

I love having soccer in the city again (I remember seeing the Blizzard play at the Exhibition!) - but if MLSE thinks this town's support is blind and limitless they are dead-wrong (ie. even the Argos who used to draw 30,000+ at the Ex for many games in the 70's and early 80's and are now begging fans to buy a ticket for their product!) - I agree with a previous poster who said that they will be playing to 12,000 or so die-hards in 5 years if the FO does not think more about the product they put on the field and how they treat their customers as well - moving the regular season game for Real Madrid, and putting in grass for that one game is absolutely ridiculous and is a complete slap in the face to both the players (why was any one shocked that DeRo was pissed?!) and the fans who support them - asking for ludicrous prices for that RM game is just the cherry on top.

Sorry for the rant - back to regular programming....


This sums it all up quite nicely.

boysblue
06-06-2009, 08:13 AM
Again the point is lost on so many of you.


It is really shocking isn't it, Trane?

torontocelt
06-06-2009, 08:34 AM
Onemanbarmyarmy.

No my son, you are the MTV generation, always giving me the same old answers. Not realy figuring out the problems and analysing what is realy going on. But simply thinking they have it all figured out. There is a bunch of you that just give me the old tiered lines over and over again. This is why corporate ownership like ours can feed you shit, and you call it chocolate.

Leave Everton out of this discussion. By the way if you read carefully as I said I am selling my season. To make sure one of you "true supporters" do not get my seat.

If you have no interest in watching the product the way that it is just now then why the heck are you selling your season, why are you not just going to not renew? Seems like someone is not as committed as he thinks? By the way the title of your post is 'I am not going to renew my season tickets' not 'I am going to retain my season ticket, still pay the MLSE the money but then sell them on to another supporter who must not be a 'true' supporter'. Furthermore your rambling about paying the MLSE 10 times more money for your ticket to then burn them in order to keep a fan who wants to go to the game out of the stadium makes no sense, why would you want to pay the MLSE, the people you hate, 10 times more for your ticket?

I do understand what you are saying to a certain degree Trane, yes the quality of football is pretty crap and yes the team does look like it isn't going to vastly improve any time soon but it doesn't take a genious to work that out. From top to bottom the team is below average but that is what happens when you cannot pay top dollar for players, who in their right mind would want to come to North America in their prime? If you are watching the MLS for quality of football then you are going to be dissapointed. Supporting a team is more than that though, it is more than winning it is more than losing and if someone wants to go the stadium no matter what to support the team they picked then who are you to say they are not a true supporter?

koryo
06-06-2009, 09:07 AM
Trane, we all share your frustration and anger with this team but don't give up. You'll regret it.

Besides, it's not like we can get relegated (oh, say twice) is it? Mind you, were that possible it might force ownership's hand a bit.

Red Patch CA
06-06-2009, 11:59 AM
Trane, what particular majority is in favour of this? Was there a vote?
And, yes, I am a true supporter; you're the one who's quitting.

Red Patch CA
06-06-2009, 12:28 PM
Denime, I'm all in favour of RPB group action to improve our team. I just don't see where not wearing my jersey is supporting our team on the field on this day. I think I have the right to make that decision as an individual.

Pookie
06-06-2009, 12:30 PM
This is an interesting topic - ...

Sorry for the rant - back to regular programming....

Very well written and expressed.

I do think you need to include a factor in your analysis of the decline of the Blue Jays and Argos.

The runaway spending of big market clubs (Yankees, Red Sox, Braves) left many MLB fans wondering what the point was. The final standings were almost a function of the highest payrolls and with the odd exception, (eg. Tampa last year) this has continued through to this day.

The Argos incorporated "local blackouts" which they felt would encourage fans to buy a ticket or else they would miss the game. This continued for years and had the effect that many potential fans were never exposed to their product. Yet, every Sunday, these "consumers" were fed the NFL brand. It was the only "football" that many ever saw.

The CFL is actually a more entertaining product yet many fans have adopted the NFL as their league simply because they were exposed to it.

In the MLS, the salary cap structure and more importantly, revenue sharing, enable all clubs to compete year in and year out. You wouldn't believe it based on the way the team has played but even TFC have a shot at the post season.

The brand is available locally and they are definitely reaching out the community (through Pub Crawls, player events, youth camps, etc).

I don't think it is completely an apples to apples comparison but your point is well taken.

tfcfans
06-06-2009, 01:23 PM
Back again -

I don't usually post - but that last one was building up for a while!

I agree with most of what you have said "Pookie" - it is not an apples to apples comparison, and that the greatest impediment for small market teams competing is the lack of a "true cap" in baseball - especially in the AL East where the 2 biggest payrolls lie - We all know that when the Blue Jays won the World Series they had the highest payroll in the league - its just that 50 Million was the number back then and not 200 Million.....

The Argos have screwed it up so often its hard to keep track - I agree that the blackouts were idiotic - but even continuing to play Argos games on Sunday afternoons in the 80's and 90's in competition with the NFL was also silly - it may work out west where CFL is king but in Toronto it was short-sighted - The CFL and NFL are two different products and should be treated as such.....

As for the MLS reaching out - I agree they have tried but they really made a mess of it this week and are rightly being taken to task for it by most people -

We all know that they are running a business BUT owning a sports team is different than other businesses as WE invest emotionally in the success of the team both as a city and individually - "WE WON THE WORLD SERIES" - not "The Blue Jays won the World Series" - we put our hearts into our teams (whomever they may be) - and we want to FEEL that the ultimate goal is winning (even if it really is to make money) - it is a suspension of belief on our part as fans that we want to believe that ownership is as invested in winning as we are - This is where having a billionaire "fan" owner like a Mark Cuban in Dallas (NBA) is nice to have - someone who may forego some profit margin in the hope that it will bring a championship to his team/city/fanbase etc.

Any billionaires looking for a soccer team? Is Balsillie finished chasing the Coyotes yet? (ha ha ha)......

Rant over - back to regular programming -

Pookie
06-06-2009, 02:32 PM
^ I don't think it is necessary to have a billionaire owner who wants to win at all costs.

The MLS is a very interesting league. It will never be a top league in the world. The history and tradition of Euro-leagues (EPL, Primera, Bundesliga, etc) will always be a draw for players born in that culture.

As such, it can't do what other North American leagues do. It can't market its stars because its stars will eventually leave. It can't build a long term business plan based on selling fans a star player(s) in every city.

It needs to be a different animal.

It needs community and passion more than ever. It needs the city (and the paying customers) to feel as though it is their team. As you point out, it's a "we" thing.

That's what will sell soccer in North America. It's groups traveling from Toronto to Columbus or from DC to New England. To the Portland-Seattle-Vancouver rivalry that is sure to build. It's about love of club (and country). It's about being responsive, accessible, etc.

That will drive the profits.

RedsYNWA
06-06-2009, 08:48 PM
I will also not renew my seasons in the south end to watch piss poor football run by a bunch of greedy Leaf owners

Get in line boys the atmospehere will die and the waiting list (big joke made up mostly of current season holders shall die) will dwindle

I'll still watch TFC on Tv maybe get the odd below face tix, there will be plenty

Good Luck I support enough Losers TFC being my choice

Roogsy
06-06-2009, 08:52 PM
Denime, I'm all in favour of RPB group action to improve our team. I just don't see where not wearing my jersey is supporting our team on the field on this day. I think I have the right to make that decision as an individual.

Absolutely. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. What we ask is that you consider what the purpose of being a part of a group is if you aren't going to support the group's initiatives.

If you want to support TFC your own way...by all means, I encourage you to do so.

Roogsy
06-06-2009, 08:55 PM
This is an interesting topic -

I think the Maple Leafs model is completely unique in Toronto and should not be used as a basis for comparison for "blind" renewals no matter how bad the product - The Leafs have a historical and cultural resonance with the City that no other franchise has ever had for a sustained period. The Blue Jays seem to me to be a better example ("new team" (1977) and new stadium (1989)) - From 1989-1994 the Jays sold close to capacity at a 50,000 seat stadium for 81 dates a year (approx. 4,000,000 tickets) - When something is popular in Toronto people will "flock and pay" out the nose to be a part of "something cool". The Jays also had 10,000 plus on a waiting list to buy their precious seats (and even 500 level seats at $10 X 81 games would cost as much as Dark Greys in BMO - so it wasn't beacuse they were cheap either!). BUT WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED - The team that once was great (heck they actually won two championships!), started to become average in 1994 and the strike killed the rest of the interest. Even after the strike, interest in the city waned immediately and the entire "waiting list" of thousands did not snap up the tickets as had been thought by the front office. They have never recovered as a result, and people in the city looked for other shiny toys to play with (ie. Raptors). By the way - the Jays are actually pretty good this year and they had 15,000 (!) at the game last night to see one of the best pitchers in baseball this year - obviously "baseball fans" are on the decline -

As much as we RPB think this is a "hot ticket" in this town - it is not really so - you can buy tickets to every game (there are only 15!) for cost or less and there are more and more empty seats at our "sold out" stadium.

I love having soccer in the city again (I remember seeing the Blizzard play at the Exhibition!) - but if MLSE thinks this town's support is blind and limitless they are dead-wrong (ie. even the Argos who used to draw 30,000+ at the Ex for many games in the 70's and early 80's and are now begging fans to buy a ticket for their product!) - I agree with a previous poster who said that they will be playing to 12,000 or so die-hards in 5 years if the FO does not think more about the product they put on the field and how they treat their customers as well - moving the regular season game for Real Madrid, and putting in grass for that one game is absolutely ridiculous and is a complete slap in the face to both the players (why was any one shocked that DeRo was pissed?!) and the fans who support them - asking for ludicrous prices for that RM game is just the cherry on top.

Sorry for the rant - back to regular programming....

Really good post. People should listen.

trane
06-06-2009, 08:55 PM
Trane, what particular majority is in favour of this? Was there a vote?
And, yes, I am a true supporter; you're the one who's quitting.

The majoirty of the RPB that voted. The point is not quiting the team, but trying to show, MLSE that they cannot dick us around.

trane
06-06-2009, 08:57 PM
Trane, we all share your frustration and anger with this team but don't give up. You'll regret it.

Besides, it's not like we can get relegated (oh, say twice) is it? Mind you, were that possible it might force ownership's hand a bit.

I will not do it, I just frustrated as I feel we are being taken for a ride at times.

trane
06-06-2009, 09:01 PM
If you have no interest in watching the product the way that it is just now then why the heck are you selling your season, why are you not just going to not renew? Seems like someone is not as committed as he thinks? By the way the title of your post is 'I am not going to renew my season tickets' not 'I am going to retain my season ticket, still pay the MLSE the money but then sell them on to another supporter who must not be a 'true' supporter'. Furthermore your rambling about paying the MLSE 10 times more money for your ticket to then burn them in order to keep a fan who wants to go to the game out of the stadium makes no sense, why would you want to pay the MLSE, the people you hate, 10 times more for your ticket?

I do understand what you are saying to a certain degree Trane, yes the quality of football is pretty crap and yes the team does look like it isn't going to vastly improve any time soon but it doesn't take a genious to work that out. From top to bottom the team is below average but that is what happens when you cannot pay top dollar for players, who in their right mind would want to come to North America in their prime? If you are watching the MLS for quality of football then you are going to be dissapointed. Supporting a team is more than that though, it is more than winning it is more than losing and if someone wants to go the stadium no matter what to support the team they picked then who are you to say they are not a true supporter?

Acctually I have never started the who is the true supporter thing, I am simply responding to those, who do not understand that if I do it, which I will not, is to give a sign to the FO/MLSE that we will not be taken for granted. I do not accept that MLS can not be a better product, it does not take Kaka and Ronaldo to play good footy. Huston does is in the MLS, Seatle seems to be on the way, and the Whitecaps and Montreal are all able to do it, spending less money. It is a team game and often footy IQ an proper coaching goes a long way to putting a good team together.

RedsYNWA
06-06-2009, 09:04 PM
Screw all this shit...... face value for all my tix who is interested to see a bunch of losers

It will save me 100$ a pop in beer and transport per game, to see this garbage

KdotOdot
06-06-2009, 09:07 PM
I have a question. How the fuck is everyone going to feel when we do get grass AND a DP and STILL stay at the bottom of the table.

grizzle
06-06-2009, 09:07 PM
I will take anyone's seasons.. just PM me.

I_AM_CANADIAN
06-06-2009, 09:07 PM
Yep... It's about being there through bad times and good times. Tough love and voicing of displeasure is needed at times like these, but when I get TFC season's, I'm not giving them up (except, you know, to upgrade into 112...) come hell, high water or Voyageurs Cup losses galore.

Although, after today, I think I may have to eat my words... Every time I go to BMO I get treated like crap by one member of the stadium staff or another, and then when you look at the product on the pitch... I'm just sick of it all. I think I'll be watching games from home or from Shoeless for the next while.