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Don Julio
06-03-2009, 08:47 AM
Look, I'm as gutted as anyone - probably more so - but we're not out of this yet. As supporters it's our mission to build up the confidence of the team and support them until the end, not to publicly berate every player and member of management when there's still games to be played.

Is it likely that we'll get the four goals we need? Hell no, but every legendary comeback in history started on the same premise. It's certainly not time to back out now. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a team has scored a boatload against Montreal to win on goal differential! This "Toronto till they lose" mentality is pretty disappointing.

And yes, I'm furious and embarrassed about the game last night. Yes there's lots of blame to spread around. No, I haven't smiled since.

COME ON YOU REDS! FOUR IN MONTREAL!

yanggoh
06-03-2009, 08:50 AM
+1...while this wouldn't necessarily excuse anything that happened last night, it would be the only, ONLY way to get rid of this excruciating ache in my chest.

lintberg
06-03-2009, 08:52 AM
I totally agree!!
I'll be in Montreal singing loud!!!
It's not over yet!
4 in Montreal!!!:drum:



Look, I'm as gutted as anyone - probably more so - but we're not out of this yet. As supporters it's our mission to build up the confidence of the team and support them until the end, not to publicly berate every player and member of management when there's still games to be played.

Is it likely that we'll get the four goals we need? Hell no, but every legendary comeback in history started on the same premise. It's certainly not time to back out now. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a team has scored a boatload against Montreal to win on goal differential! This "Toronto till they lose" mentality is pretty disappointing.

And yes, I'm furious and embarrassed about the game last night. Yes there's lots of blame to spread around. No, I haven't smiled since.

COME ON YOU REDS! FOUR IN MONTREAL!

Mojo
06-03-2009, 08:52 AM
Just because we're all pissed off about the Blue Jays losing to a tee-ball team (wait, err.. basically the same), doesn't mean we don't want them to qualify anymore.

Its just frustrating that we have to do it in this way when we clearly should have earned this trophy already.

Carts
06-03-2009, 08:53 AM
THAT'S WRONG!

Here is the rules from the CSA themselves...

The champion will be determined by:
1. Most points in all group matchs;
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams;
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams; Vancouver-2 vs Toronto-1
4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams;
5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches;
6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches; 7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots.

This is from the CSA - Official Release from them - rules of the tournament...!!!

Carts...

Jack
06-03-2009, 08:54 AM
THAT'S WRONG!

Here is the rules from the CSA themselves...

The champion will be determined by:
1. Most points in all group matchs;
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams;
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams; Vancouver-2 vs Toronto-1
4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams;
5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches;
6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches; 7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots.

This is from the CSA - Official Release from them - rules of the tournament...!!!

Carts...

Not exactly right, Carts.

2 and 3 only apply if all three teams are tied.

zeelaw
06-03-2009, 08:55 AM
http://www.clker.com/cliparts/3/7/d/5/1197103862376117882Gioppino_Soccer_Ball.svg.med.pn ghttp://www.clker.com/cliparts/3/7/d/5/1197103862376117882Gioppino_Soccer_Ball.svg.med.pn ghttp://www.clker.com/cliparts/3/7/d/5/1197103862376117882Gioppino_Soccer_Ball.svg.med.pn ghttp://www.clker.com/cliparts/3/7/d/5/1197103862376117882Gioppino_Soccer_Ball.svg.med.pn g

Carts
06-03-2009, 08:59 AM
Not exactly right, Carts.

2 and 3 only apply if all three teams are tied.

Ok, maybe in my anger I'm reading this wrong...

But we have 6-points, Vancouver 9-pts...

So if we win in Montreal, we'll be tied with Vancouver with 9-points, correct...?

Then if tied its points in head to head... Which we're tied with Vancouver... 3pts each, correct...?

Then its goal differential in those games in head-to-head games, which Vancouver wins 2-1...

If I'm reading this wrong in my anger - its not the first time, I apologize, but I'm looking at the CSA press release right now...

I'm lost...

Carts...

shawn6597
06-03-2009, 08:59 AM
4 stunner two sticks to be held high one at a time when we score 4 in MTL

Jack
06-03-2009, 09:01 AM
Ok, maybe in my anger I'm reading this wrong...

But we have 6-points, Vancouver 9-pts...

So if we win in Montreal, we'll be tied with Vancouver with 9-points, correct...?

Then if tied its points in head to head... Which we're tied with Vancouver... 3pts each, correct...?

Then its goal differential in those games in head-to-head games, which Vancouver wins 2-1...

If I'm reading this wrong in my anger - its not the first time, I apologize, but I'm looking at the CSA press release right now...

I'm lost...

Carts...
The wording on the CSA site said those apply if more than two teams are tied.

rocker
06-03-2009, 09:02 AM
Ok, maybe in my anger I'm reading this wrong...

But we have 6-points, Vancouver 9-pts...

So if we win in Montreal, we'll be tied with Vancouver with 9-points, correct...?

Then if tied its points in head to head... Which we're tied with Vancouver... 3pts each, correct...?

Then its goal differential in those games in head-to-head games, which Vancouver wins 2-1...

If I'm reading this wrong in my anger - its not the first time, I apologize, but I'm looking at the CSA press release right now...

I'm lost...

Carts...

the CSA put qualifications on 2 of the tiebreakers, qualifications that those 2 tiebreakers were only used if there's a tie in points between 3 teams.
So you skip over those 2 tiebreakers if TFC beats Montreal, since it would be a 2-way tie. And the next tiebreaker that counts is goal diff across the whole tourney.

117
06-03-2009, 09:03 AM
Hey Carts,

It's very misleading, since the 2nd and 3rd tiebreakers ONLY APPLY if more than 2 teams are tied at the top.

They would NEVER come into play until this is at least a 4-team tournament.

Why the CSA has them on paper, when it's still a 3 team tournament, is a bit confusing.

Until a 4th team joins, you can skip over them.

Cheers,
Martyn

Carts
06-03-2009, 09:06 AM
the CSA put qualifications on 2 of the tiebreakers, qualifications that those 2 tiebreakers were only used if there's a tie in points between 3 teams.
So you skip over those 2 tiebreakers if TFC beats Montreal, since it would be a 2-way tie. And the next tiebreaker that counts is goal diff across the whole tourney.

Thanks boys... Like I said, in my anger I miss things _I'll trust you guys, but here's a copy/paste from the press release sent out Monday, and it seems to say the tourny is over - but I'll trust you guys...

Should Whitecaps FC win on Tuesday night, it will finish with nine points and hope that Toronto FC fails to win on 18 June (thus finishing with six or seven points). If Whitecaps FC wins Tuesday and Toronto FC wins on 18 June, then both sides will consult the tie-breaking scenarios. The champion will be determined by: 1. Most points in all group matchs; 2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams; 3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams; 4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams; 5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches; 6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches; 7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots.

I really hope I am missing something, and the CSA isn't "fudging" the rules to make the game mean something...

Carts...

Carts
06-03-2009, 09:07 AM
Here's the full release, sent to my TSN.ca e-mail address yesterday... (the CSA media guy needs to learn to hit return every now and then... LOL)

Canadian Soccer Association • l’Association canadienne de soccerMedia Release • CommuniquéFor Immediate Release / Pour diffusion immédiate - For more information please contact:
Pour toutes autres informations, veuillez contacter :Richard Scott - 613.237.4580 x237 / 613.818.0305
Nathan Vanstone - 604.629.2251 / 778.228.7177 - Vancouver Whitecaps FC
Michelle Lissel - 416.815.5400 x5399 / 416.716.1311 - Toronto FC
Patrick Vallée - 514.328.3668 x27 / 514.919.0539 - Impact de Montréal
Excitement builds before Nutrilite showdown It may be a new rivalry on the Canadian sports landscape, but it hasn’t taken long to come to a boil. Canadian club pride will be on the line Tuesday night when Vancouver Whitecaps FC hosts Toronto FC on match day five of the Nutrilite Canadian Championship. The two sides will meet this 2 June at Swangard Stadium in a showdown that could determine the championship. Both coaches will meet the media this Monday afternoon at Swangard Stadium at 14.00. Toronto FC coach Chris Cummins needs but a draw or victory for his side to win the 2009 Voyageurs Cup and qualify for the 2009-10 CONCACAF Champions League season; Whitecaps coach Teitur Thordarson needs a win from this troupe to stay alive in the competition. The Tuesday 2 June match kicks off at 19.30 at Swangard Stadium in Vancouver, BC. The match will be broadcast live on Rogers Sportsnet (22.30 ET / 19.30 PT). Last year, Vancouver won the two-match rivalry with four points: a 1:0 win on 1 July in Toronto and a 2:2 draw on 9 July in Vancouver. This year, Toronto has the upper edge after a 1:0 win on home turf on 13 May. Toronto FC leads the 2009 competition with a perfect six points in two games. Whitecaps FC is second with six points in three games. Following the Vancouver-Toronto 2 June match, Toronto FC will be hosted by the Impact de Montréal on 18 June. Should Whitecaps FC win on Tuesday night, it will finish with nine points and hope that Toronto FC fails to win on 18 June (thus finishing with six or seven points). If Whitecaps FC wins Tuesday and Toronto FC wins on 18 June, then both sides will consult the tie-breaking scenarios. The champion will be determined by: 1. Most points in all group matchs; 2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams; 3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams; 4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams; 5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches; 6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches; 7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots. Toronto FC's road is much simpler: it needs but a draw on Tuesday night to win the championship. If Toronto FC draws Whitecaps FC and both teams finish the competition with seven points (after an Impact win on 18 June), then Toronto FC will win the championship on account of winning the Toronto-Vancouver series (four points to one). The 2009 Nutrilite Canadian Championship runs 6 May to 18 June in Montréal, Toronto and Vancouver. The Impact de Montréal, after winning the 2008 championship and reaching the quarter-final stage of 2008-09 CONCACAF Champions League, has already booked a third-place finish in 2009. As such, a new champion - be it Toronto FC or Whitecaps FC - will be crowned champion come 18 June when the Voyageurs Cup is presented in Montréal. La tension monte en vue de l’épreuve de force Nutrilite La nouvelle rivalité sur la scène sportive canadienne n’a pas pris de temps avant de venir à l’ébullition. La fierté des équipes canadiennes sera mise en question mardi soir quand les Whitecaps de Vancouver affronteront Toronto à domicile lors du cinquième match des Championnats canadiens Nutrilite. Les deux équipes ont rendez-vous le 2 juin prochain au Stade Swangard dans une épreuve de force qui risque de déterminer le championnat. Les entraîneurs-chefs des deux équipes rencontreront les médias lundi après-midi dès 14 h au Stade Swangard. Chris Cummins, entraîneur de Toronto, n’a besoin qu’un match nul ou bien une victoire afin que son équipe puisse remporter la Coupe des Voyageurs 2009 ainsi que de se qualifier pour la saison de la Ligue des champions de la CONCACAF 2009-10. De l’autre côté de la médaille, Teitur Thordarson, dont l’entraîneur de Vancouver, a besoin de gagner à tout prix afin de rester dans la course. Le match ayant lieu le mardi 2 juin prochain commencera dès 19 h 30 au Stade Swangard situé à Vancouver, Colombie britannique. La partie sera télédiffusée en directe sur Rogers Sportsnet (22 h 30 ET/19 h 30 PT). L’an dernier, Vancouver a dominé la rivalité lors de deux matchs contre Toronto avec un total de quatre points; une victoire de 1-0 le 1 juillet 2008 à Toronto et un match nul de 2-2 par la suite le 9 juillet 2008 à Vancouver. Cette année, c’est plutôt Toronto qui tient l’avantage suite à une victoire de 1-0 sur leur terrain le 13 mai passé. Toronto mène la compétition cette année avec un record parfait de six points en deux matchs. Les Whitecaps sont tout près d’eux en deuxième place avec également six points, mais en trois matchs. Suite au match du 2 juin, L’Impact de Montréal sera hôte à Toronto le 18 juin prochain. Si les Whitecaps finissent vainqueurs mardi soir, ils finiront avec neuf points et souhaiteront que Toronto perd leur match le 18 juin; à ce moment-là, Toronto aura un total de six ou sept points. Toutefois, si Vancouver gagne mardi et que Toronto remporte leur match du 18 juin, les deux équipes consulteront ensuite les scénarios possibles en cas de partage. Le champion sera donc déterminé par : 1. Le plus grand nombre de points accumulés lors de tous les matchs de groupes 2. Si deux équipes ou plus sont toujours à l’égalité, l’équipe ayant le plus grand nombre de points lors des matchs joués par les équipes à l’égalité 3. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, la plus grande différence entre le nombre de buts marqués lors des matchs joués par les équipes en égalité 4. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, le plus grand nombre de buts marqués lors des matchs joués entre les équipes en égalité 5. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, la plus grande différence entre le nombre de buts marqués lors de tous les matchs joués 6. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, le plus grand nombre de buts marqués lors de tous les matchs joués 7. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, il aura un tirage au sort Il faut concéder que le cheminement de l’équipe de Tornoto s’avère plus facile que celui de Vancouver; Toronto n’a besoin qu’un match nul mardi soir afin de remporter les championnats. De plus, si la partie finit en match nul, les deux équipes finiront en égalité avec sept points à leur actif respectivement (si l’Impact gagne le match du 18 juin), mais Toronto sera désigné champion quand même, car cette équipe a dominé la série de matchs contre Vancouver (quatre points pour Toronto contre un point de la part des Whitecaps). Les Champions canadiens Nutrilite 2009 se déroulent du 6 mai jusqu’au 18 juin à Montréal, Toronto et Vancouver. L’Impact de Montréal, dont les champions en titre du championnat (ils se sont également rendus jusqu’au quart de finale de la Ligue des champions de la CONCACAF en 2008), sont dorénavant à la troisième place des championnats de cette année. Conséquemment, un nouveau champion, soit Toronto ou Vancouver sera couronné roi des Championnats canadiens Nutrilite lors de la présentation de la Coupe des Voyageurs qui aura lieu à Montréal le 18 juin prochain.

flatpicker
06-03-2009, 09:08 AM
I thought the tournament was over... but who knows...
nothing makes sense in this crazy world right now!

nimamalek
06-03-2009, 09:10 AM
we're turning into Leaf fans :) Let me break it to you, we're not scoring 4 in montreal and I doubt we even pull off a win in montreal, its ok to be realistic sometimes, It doesnt make you less of a fan. Actually looking at the MLS table and considering how many away games we have left I dont think we're making the playoffs either.

JamboAl
06-03-2009, 09:14 AM
I still don't get this...according to 2, it says: "If two or more teams are tied". There are exactly 2 teams that are tied. So if 2, doesn't apply, we go to 3 which says: "If teams are still tied, then the team with the greater goal difference featuring tied teams".

Doesn't greater mean two teams only? I'm with Carts on this one.

As Sven says: "Legal minefield".

117
06-03-2009, 09:15 AM
Hey Carts,

To be completely honest with you, I think it was a mistake on their parts.

The email you have clearly states 2 or more in a tie, goes to Head-to-Head pts & goal diff first. The website article (posted on Monday) states 3 or more.

It doesn't make sense that they would go to H-2-H for a 3-team tie, but not for a 2-team tie? I think they messed up. I mean, if they're going to consider H-2-H, then why not do it with a 2 team tie?

Also, with only 3 teams in the competition, if all three were tied, then the head-to-head points would be IDENTICAL to the tournament points. And the head-to-head goal diff would be IDENTICAL to the tournament goal diff.

The only way those tie-breakers make sense, is if it's a 4 (or more) team tournament, which it isn't.

Either way, I don't imagine it's going to matter much.

We shouldn't even be talking about this right now. We should be trying to figure out how we got home last night, after the parade down Yonge Street. And what happened to our pants. Fuck.

Carts
06-03-2009, 09:17 AM
Hey Carts,

To be completely honest with you, I think it was a mistake on their parts.

The email you have clearly states 2 or more in a tie, goes to Head-to-Head pts & goal diff first. The website article (posted on Monday) states 3 or more.

It doesn't make sense that they would go to H-2-H for a 3-team tie, but not for a 2-team tie? I think they messed up. I mean, if they're going to consider H-2-H, then why not do it with a 2 team tie?

Also, with only 3 teams in the competition, if all three were tied, then the head-to-head points would be IDENTICAL to the tournament points. And the head-to-head goal diff would be IDENTICAL to the tournament goal diff.

The only way those tie-breakers make sense, is if it's a 4 (or more) team tournament, which it isn't.

Either way, I don't imagine it's going to matter much.

We shouldn't even be talking about this right now. We should be trying to figure out how we got home last night, after the parade down Yonge Street. And what happened to our pants. Fuck.

LOL!!!

Ya, either they made a mistake, or fudging it so the game means something - either way you're right, those were my favourite jeans!!! :)

Carts...

Don Julio
06-03-2009, 09:21 AM
we're turning into Leaf fans :) Let me break it to you, we're not scoring 4 in montreal and I doubt we even pull off a win in montreal, its ok to be realistic sometimes, It doesnt make you less of a fan. Actually looking at the MLS table and considering how many away games we have left I dont think we're making the playoffs either.

True, and that is the difference between being a fan and a supporter. I hope everyone who's given up on the team doesn't celebrate if we do have a miracle recovery.

Don Julio
06-03-2009, 09:23 AM
Here's the official tiebreaker rules:

http://www.canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=3669

If the head-to-head goal differential doesn't count in our case. The rules that have been posted here were incomplete.

flatpicker
06-03-2009, 09:24 AM
^ there is a difference between being pissed off and jumping ship entirely.

I personally thought all was over for TFC in this tournament based on the rules laid out.
But somehow those rules have been changed or deliberately written to allow for interpretation.

If Toronto still has a chance then I am behind them.
But it doesn't change the fact that I am disgusted by the situation they have put themselves in.

Nuvinho
06-03-2009, 09:29 AM
We need 4 just for a coin toss....which knowing our luck we'd lose.

We need 5 goals I think:

2 in the first 20 minutes
1 PK goal
hopefully a Montreal Red
then another goal
...........then but unknown forces.......Chad scores!!

117
06-03-2009, 09:33 AM
If we win 4-0, then we will tie Vancouver on Goal diff.
The 6th tiebreaker is goals scored
Vancouver has scored 5.
We would have scored 6.

There is NO scenario that would see the drawing of lots this season.

Nuvinho
06-03-2009, 09:35 AM
If we win 4-0, then we will tie Vancouver on Goal diff.
The 6th tiebreaker is goals scored
Vancouver has scored 5.
We would have scored 6.

There is NO scenario that would see the drawing of lots this season.

Thanks....didn't know that!!!

Can we get in 2 or 3 strikers in just for that game (transfer window opens June 15th??).........hahaha!!!

Fort York Redcoat
06-03-2009, 09:36 AM
True, and that is the difference between being a fan and a supporter. I hope everyone who's given up on the team doesn't celebrate if we do have a miracle recovery.

Preach on, Don.

:scarf:till I Die.

You've sung the song now one more time.

shawn6597
06-03-2009, 09:39 AM
Thanks....didn't know that!!!

Can we get in 2 or 3 strikers in just for that game (transfer window opens June 15th??).........hahaha!!!


This is interesting...

could management win us back by pouring money into a DP striker before MTL?

its unlikely, highly unlikely, but how would this board react to MLSE pouring serious resources into attempting to win this game as an attempt to reconcile the massive fuckup

zeelaw
06-03-2009, 09:41 AM
Hey Guys... On canada soccer it gives the offical scenario
http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_Clubs/national.asp

SCENARIOS FOR 18 JUNE FOLLOWING WHITECAPS FC 2:0 WIN OVER TORONTO FC ON 2 JUNE
* A Toronto FC loss or draw to Montréal, regardless of score – Vancouver wins championship
* A Toronto FC victory by three goals or less in difference, regardless of score – Vancouver wins championship
* A Toronto FC victory by 4+ goals in difference, regardless of score – Toronto wins championship
So we do need 4 for sure

giambac
06-03-2009, 09:43 AM
Look, I'm as gutted as anyone - probably more so - but we're not out of this yet. As supporters it's our mission to build up the confidence of the team and support them until the end, not to publicly berate every player and member of management when there's still games to be played.

Is it likely that we'll get the four goals we need? Hell no, but every legendary comeback in history started on the same premise. It's certainly not time to back out now. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a team has scored a boatload against Montreal to win on goal differential! This "Toronto till they lose" mentality is pretty disappointing.

And yes, I'm furious and embarrassed about the game last night. Yes there's lots of blame to spread around. No, I haven't smiled since.

COME ON YOU REDS! FOUR IN MONTREAL!

4 in Montreal???????:noidea:

this team won't score 4 goals combined in their next 4 matches.
wake up.

flatpicker
06-03-2009, 09:47 AM
Hey Guys... On canada soccer it gives the offical scenario
http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_Clubs/national.asp

So we do need 4 for sure


well I suppose that settles that confusion.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 10:10 AM
We will not beat MTL 4-0 -- that is painfully obvious.

We lacked everything that was needed to beat Vancouver last night, and in the game against Houston we lacked everything that was needed to score as well.

Imagining that we will rise like some might phoenix is wishful thinking. We struggled to win at home against MTL, and Vancouver. We were then fully fucked over by Chicago, managed to beat NE quite nicely, and then got proper fucked by Houston before last nights disaster.

Worse than the finishing last night was the passing. Really quite shocking, and without a doubt one of the worst games of 'professional' football I have ever witnessed.

A team that plays like we do will not win shit...Period!

Toronto Ruffrider
06-03-2009, 10:30 AM
Hey Carts,

To be completely honest with you, I think it was a mistake on their parts.

The email you have clearly states 2 or more in a tie, goes to Head-to-Head pts & goal diff first. The website article (posted on Monday) states 3 or more.

It doesn't make sense that they would go to H-2-H for a 3-team tie, but not for a 2-team tie? I think they messed up. I mean, if they're going to consider H-2-H, then why not do it with a 2 team tie?

Also, with only 3 teams in the competition, if all three were tied, then the head-to-head points would be IDENTICAL to the tournament points. And the head-to-head goal diff would be IDENTICAL to the tournament goal diff.

The only way those tie-breakers make sense, is if it's a 4 (or more) team tournament, which it isn't.

Either way, I don't imagine it's going to matter much.

We shouldn't even be talking about this right now. We should be trying to figure out how we got home last night, after the parade down Yonge Street. And what happened to our pants. Fuck.

I agree, it looks like a typo to me. Head-to-head GD is a common tiebreaker in FIFA-sanctioned leagues, and you don't need three teams in order for it to take affect. However, you do need three or more teams for H2H total goals to take affect, as two teams that have the same H2H GD will automatically have the same H2H total goals.

At the end of the day, we need two things to happen. First, we need Ben to clarify the tiebreaking procedure with the CSA. Time to work your magic, buddy! Second, and only if we're still alive in the competition, we need TFC to play like beasts against Montreal. I don't know if this is possible, so maybe we should just consider bribing Joey Saputo.

Carts
06-03-2009, 10:33 AM
I agree, it looks like a typo to me. Head-to-head GD is a common tiebreaker in FIFA-sanctioned leagues, and you don't need three teams in order for it to take affect. However, you do need three or more teams for H2H total goals to take affect, as two teams that have the same H2H GD will automatically have the same H2H total goals.

At the end of the day, we need two things to happen. First, we need Ben to clarify the tiebreaking procedure with the CSA. Time to work your magic, buddy! Second, and only if we're still alive in the competition, we need TFC to play like beasts against Montreal. I don't know if this is possible, so maybe we should just consider bribing Joey Saputo.

Me and Ben have been having a email-versation (lol) this morning...

Lets just say, the 4 in Montreal is 'now what we need to win'... ;)

Oh the CSA! Fuckin' things up since '86...

Carts...

rocker
06-03-2009, 12:15 PM
I'm curious now to see how Montreal approaches this. Do they care? They've looked like shit all season, and seem to still be in hangover mode since the Santos meltdown. But it's TFC, so they should get up for it.

Anyhow, TFC has to AT LEAST beat Montreal to salvage pride... even if it's 1-0. If they lose to Montreal it'll be a double whammy.

FluSH
06-03-2009, 12:19 PM
Have we ever scored 4 goals in a game?!?!?

and who will score these goals? Barrett?

Parkdale
06-03-2009, 12:22 PM
Have we ever scored 4 goals in a game?!?!?


4-0 over Dallas in the first year.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 12:23 PM
Have we ever scored 4 goals in a game?!?!?

and who will score these goals? Barrett?

Yep -- that is the big question. We do not have a team that is capable of scoring one goal against Van, and yet many feel we can got to MTL and bang in four without letting in one. LOLing out loud.

Chevy
06-03-2009, 12:31 PM
How about this...


----------Frei

------Nana Serioux

--Cronin Guevera Robinson

---------Dichio

-Barrett Dero Vitti Ibrahim

rocker
06-03-2009, 12:35 PM
yet many feel we can got to MTL and bang in four without letting in one. LOLing out loud.

well, there's hope and realism. Neither is wrong.

Do you hope TFC will score 4 goals? I do :)

It's not impossible to score 4 goals on Montreal. They've crashed and burned recently, notably giving up 5 against Santos. Is it likely that TFC will score 4 goals? nope.

Let's play the game and see.

I would hope Cummins goes for it, cuz if he pulled off a 4-0 win it would be an amazing story.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 12:36 PM
How about this...


----------Frei

------Nana Serioux

--Cronin Guevera Robinson

---------Dichio

-Barrett Dero Vitti Ibrahim

Potential problems I can see;

Barrett = problem
Vitti = problem
Ibrahim = problem
Dero = being dragged down by the problems
Dichio = problem

Walnut
06-03-2009, 12:40 PM
I would hope Cummins goes for it, cuz if he pulled off a 4-0 win it would be an amazing story.

One could say that we did not go for it last night, even knowing that we could have wrapped up the cup with a draw, we still could not get the ball in the back of the net or string together more than one pass.

I want for Toronto to win more than anything, but the 'amazing story' of TFC going to MTL and winning by 4 goals seems more like a amazingly unlikely story to me.

Chevy
06-03-2009, 12:43 PM
Potential problems I can see;

Barrett = problem
Vitti = problem
Ibrahim = problem
Dero = being dragged down by the problems
Dichio = problem

Barrett 5th minute
Vitti 25th minute
Dero 75th minute
Dichio 90th minute to take it!

A guy can dream....

zeelaw
06-03-2009, 12:55 PM
Barrett 5th minute
Vitti 25th minute
Dero 75th minute
Dichio 90th minute to take it!

A guy can dream....
:scarf::scarf::flare::flare::flare:

BuSaPuNk
06-03-2009, 12:56 PM
Wish we could sign Tevez or Messi on a one day loan?? lol......
Hope we can pull it out, but just seems so unlikely. :(

Frank Costanza
06-03-2009, 01:54 PM
Frank Costanza is in,

4 in mtl,

lilkely not so much
will we die trying "hell ya"

ilikemusic
06-03-2009, 01:56 PM
How many times have we scored 4 goals ever?

I can only think of the one time in year one against Dallas.

:confused:

Nuvinho
06-03-2009, 01:59 PM
I'll take a crack at this unrealistic chance of us winning 4-0:

---------Frei--------
Velez--Nana--Serioux
---Robbo--Cronin----
------Guevara------
--White-DeRo-Vitti--
--------Dichio------

Chevy
06-03-2009, 02:06 PM
Good, but drop Velez and stick Ibby in there somewhere.

billyfly
06-03-2009, 02:29 PM
We start the match by chanting:

So mas cuatro!, So mas cuatro!, So mas cuatro!

Toronto_Bhoy
06-03-2009, 03:02 PM
We've scored 4 goals in only one game in 80 odd attempts…

Walnut
06-03-2009, 03:05 PM
Good, but drop Velez and stick Ibby in there somewhere.

So far this season, Ibby has had 171 minutes of play and had zero strikes on goal. I am not sure he is going to save us.

Technorgasm
06-03-2009, 03:23 PM
We will not beat MTL 4-0 -- that is painfully obvious.



THESE ARE THE FACTS:

L-MkHxdkcvQ


since when is the game over before it is played?

Never.

save the crying until after the match.

brad
06-03-2009, 03:24 PM
Knowing that we need to win by a large margin, Montreal will park a bus in front of their goal and look to hit us on the counter.

We are going to have to through everything at them, and that is going to leave space for them to do this.

rocker
06-03-2009, 03:24 PM
We've scored 4 goals in only one game in 80 odd attempts…

so it IS possible! :)

Walnut
06-03-2009, 03:28 PM
THESE ARE THE FACTS:

since when is the game over before it is played?

Never.

save the crying until after the match.

Okay, maybe I am missing something here -- you are saying that because Santos beat MTL 5-2, that we should be able to beat them 4-0. Is this right...?

What if they score a goal, or 2, or 3...?

Don Julio
06-03-2009, 06:07 PM
We've scored 4 goals in only one game in 80 odd attempts…

So, really, what you're saying is We're Due!

:scarf:

TFC_Chris
06-03-2009, 06:21 PM
Okay, maybe I am missing something here -- you are saying that because Santos beat MTL 5-2, that we should be able to beat them 4-0. Is this right...?

What if they score a goal, or 2, or 3...?

Then at least we tried to blow them out of the water. Fuck, if we win 4-1 at Montreal and give up the one goal in the 94th minute, I will still be happy with the performance because it will show that at least some on this team gives a shit about performing up to their potential.

And we are not saying that we should beat them, but we are saying we have a fucking chance, as opposed to those on this board who have repeated ad nauseum that we're going to get crushed or that it's a waste of time.

TFC RealDeal RPB
06-03-2009, 06:24 PM
Have we ever got 4 in one game ?

Don Julio
06-03-2009, 06:26 PM
Yes, Dallas at home in year 1. It was fun. It would've been even better if it qualified us for a major tournament.

Walnut
06-03-2009, 06:34 PM
And we are not saying that we should beat them, but we are saying we have a fucking chance, as opposed to those on this board who have repeated ad nauseum that we're going to get crushed or that it's a waste of time.

I know. It is just so frustrating to see us in this position after having the upper hand. I really cannot quite comprehend how we have gone to Vancouver need a draw / win to qualify, to needing a 4 goal winning margin against MTL.

I was hopeful, that the MTL game could have been used to try out some newer players -- now we have to go there and pull off a miracle.

Sorry if I sound like a whiny bitch...

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-03-2009, 06:36 PM
Here's the full release, sent to my TSN.ca e-mail address yesterday... (the CSA media guy needs to learn to hit return every now and then... LOL)

Canadian Soccer Association • l’Association canadienne de soccerMedia Release • CommuniquéFor Immediate Release / Pour diffusion immédiate - For more information please contact:
Pour toutes autres informations, veuillez contacter :Richard Scott - 613.237.4580 x237 / 613.818.0305
Nathan Vanstone - 604.629.2251 / 778.228.7177 - Vancouver Whitecaps FC
Michelle Lissel - 416.815.5400 x5399 / 416.716.1311 - Toronto FC
Patrick Vallée - 514.328.3668 x27 / 514.919.0539 - Impact de Montréal
Excitement builds before Nutrilite showdown It may be a new rivalry on the Canadian sports landscape, but it hasn’t taken long to come to a boil. Canadian club pride will be on the line Tuesday night when Vancouver Whitecaps FC hosts Toronto FC on match day five of the Nutrilite Canadian Championship. The two sides will meet this 2 June at Swangard Stadium in a showdown that could determine the championship. Both coaches will meet the media this Monday afternoon at Swangard Stadium at 14.00. Toronto FC coach Chris Cummins needs but a draw or victory for his side to win the 2009 Voyageurs Cup and qualify for the 2009-10 CONCACAF Champions League season; Whitecaps coach Teitur Thordarson needs a win from this troupe to stay alive in the competition. The Tuesday 2 June match kicks off at 19.30 at Swangard Stadium in Vancouver, BC. The match will be broadcast live on Rogers Sportsnet (22.30 ET / 19.30 PT). Last year, Vancouver won the two-match rivalry with four points: a 1:0 win on 1 July in Toronto and a 2:2 draw on 9 July in Vancouver. This year, Toronto has the upper edge after a 1:0 win on home turf on 13 May. Toronto FC leads the 2009 competition with a perfect six points in two games. Whitecaps FC is second with six points in three games. Following the Vancouver-Toronto 2 June match, Toronto FC will be hosted by the Impact de Montréal on 18 June. Should Whitecaps FC win on Tuesday night, it will finish with nine points and hope that Toronto FC fails to win on 18 June (thus finishing with six or seven points). If Whitecaps FC wins Tuesday and Toronto FC wins on 18 June, then both sides will consult the tie-breaking scenarios. The champion will be determined by: 1. Most points in all group matchs; 2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams; 3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams; 4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams; 5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches; 6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches; 7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots. Toronto FC's road is much simpler: it needs but a draw on Tuesday night to win the championship. If Toronto FC draws Whitecaps FC and both teams finish the competition with seven points (after an Impact win on 18 June), then Toronto FC will win the championship on account of winning the Toronto-Vancouver series (four points to one). The 2009 Nutrilite Canadian Championship runs 6 May to 18 June in Montréal, Toronto and Vancouver. The Impact de Montréal, after winning the 2008 championship and reaching the quarter-final stage of 2008-09 CONCACAF Champions League, has already booked a third-place finish in 2009. As such, a new champion - be it Toronto FC or Whitecaps FC - will be crowned champion come 18 June when the Voyageurs Cup is presented in Montréal. La tension monte en vue de l’épreuve de force Nutrilite La nouvelle rivalité sur la scène sportive canadienne n’a pas pris de temps avant de venir à l’ébullition. La fierté des équipes canadiennes sera mise en question mardi soir quand les Whitecaps de Vancouver affronteront Toronto à domicile lors du cinquième match des Championnats canadiens Nutrilite. Les deux équipes ont rendez-vous le 2 juin prochain au Stade Swangard dans une épreuve de force qui risque de déterminer le championnat. Les entraîneurs-chefs des deux équipes rencontreront les médias lundi après-midi dès 14 h au Stade Swangard. Chris Cummins, entraîneur de Toronto, n’a besoin qu’un match nul ou bien une victoire afin que son équipe puisse remporter la Coupe des Voyageurs 2009 ainsi que de se qualifier pour la saison de la Ligue des champions de la CONCACAF 2009-10. De l’autre côté de la médaille, Teitur Thordarson, dont l’entraîneur de Vancouver, a besoin de gagner à tout prix afin de rester dans la course. Le match ayant lieu le mardi 2 juin prochain commencera dès 19 h 30 au Stade Swangard situé à Vancouver, Colombie britannique. La partie sera télédiffusée en directe sur Rogers Sportsnet (22 h 30 ET/19 h 30 PT). L’an dernier, Vancouver a dominé la rivalité lors de deux matchs contre Toronto avec un total de quatre points; une victoire de 1-0 le 1 juillet 2008 à Toronto et un match nul de 2-2 par la suite le 9 juillet 2008 à Vancouver. Cette année, c’est plutôt Toronto qui tient l’avantage suite à une victoire de 1-0 sur leur terrain le 13 mai passé. Toronto mène la compétition cette année avec un record parfait de six points en deux matchs. Les Whitecaps sont tout près d’eux en deuxième place avec également six points, mais en trois matchs. Suite au match du 2 juin, L’Impact de Montréal sera hôte à Toronto le 18 juin prochain. Si les Whitecaps finissent vainqueurs mardi soir, ils finiront avec neuf points et souhaiteront que Toronto perd leur match le 18 juin; à ce moment-là, Toronto aura un total de six ou sept points. Toutefois, si Vancouver gagne mardi et que Toronto remporte leur match du 18 juin, les deux équipes consulteront ensuite les scénarios possibles en cas de partage. Le champion sera donc déterminé par : 1. Le plus grand nombre de points accumulés lors de tous les matchs de groupes 2. Si deux équipes ou plus sont toujours à l’égalité, l’équipe ayant le plus grand nombre de points lors des matchs joués par les équipes à l’égalité 3. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, la plus grande différence entre le nombre de buts marqués lors des matchs joués par les équipes en égalité 4. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, le plus grand nombre de buts marqués lors des matchs joués entre les équipes en égalité 5. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, la plus grande différence entre le nombre de buts marqués lors de tous les matchs joués 6. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, le plus grand nombre de buts marqués lors de tous les matchs joués 7. Si les équipes sont toujours à l’égalité, il aura un tirage au sort Il faut concéder que le cheminement de l’équipe de Tornoto s’avère plus facile que celui de Vancouver; Toronto n’a besoin qu’un match nul mardi soir afin de remporter les championnats. De plus, si la partie finit en match nul, les deux équipes finiront en égalité avec sept points à leur actif respectivement (si l’Impact gagne le match du 18 juin), mais Toronto sera désigné champion quand même, car cette équipe a dominé la série de matchs contre Vancouver (quatre points pour Toronto contre un point de la part des Whitecaps). Les Champions canadiens Nutrilite 2009 se déroulent du 6 mai jusqu’au 18 juin à Montréal, Toronto et Vancouver. L’Impact de Montréal, dont les champions en titre du championnat (ils se sont également rendus jusqu’au quart de finale de la Ligue des champions de la CONCACAF en 2008), sont dorénavant à la troisième place des championnats de cette année. Conséquemment, un nouveau champion, soit Toronto ou Vancouver sera couronné roi des Championnats canadiens Nutrilite lors de la présentation de la Coupe des Voyageurs qui aura lieu à Montréal le 18 juin prochain.


If the CSA consider this a big event why have a female offical? this makes the t whole tournament look bush league..we didnt lose because of the offical, but still its not right...she could not handle herself in the dust up towards the end of match..she looked lost...come on CSA get real officals in Montreal!!

JamboAl
06-03-2009, 07:32 PM
If the CSA consider this a big event why have a female offical? this makes the t whole tournament look bush league..we didnt lose because of the offical, but still its not right...she could not handle herself in the dust up towards the end of match..she looked lost...come on CSA get real officals in Montreal!!

Dude, what's not right about having a female official. She was way better than some of the MLS jokers we've had. I hope your girlfriend/wife doesn't read this or someone's gonna get a hurt real bad.

Erkan16
06-03-2009, 07:34 PM
the need for 4 goals means Barrett needs to stay home.

Chevy
06-03-2009, 07:43 PM
Dude, what's not right about having a female official. She was way better than some of the MLS jokers we've had. I hope your girlfriend/wife doesn't read this or someone's gonna get a hurt real bad.

She is one of the better refs in north america. I think she has done a few MLS games too - at least been a 4th.

Super
06-03-2009, 07:48 PM
I'm quite a purist myself when it comes to the game of football, but I actually don't care if the ref is a female. As long as she does a good job, and I think she did an okay job. There was a bit of a fight starting a couple times, but she took care of it. Can't blame anything on her for the loss that's for sure.

Don Julio
06-19-2009, 01:47 AM
BUMP

for Faith

for Victory

for GREAT SUCCESS

CONCACAF here we Come!

Cashcleaner
06-19-2009, 02:14 AM
If the CSA consider this a big event why have a female offical? this makes the t whole tournament look bush league..we didnt lose because of the offical, but still its not right...she could not handle herself in the dust up towards the end of match..she looked lost...come on CSA get real officals in Montreal!!

I agree. Why isn't she at home in the kitchen being pregnant? :rolleyes:

Contrary to the warped reality you've created around yourself, she's actually one of the better refs we've seen on the pitch in three years.