OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION: Tie-Breaker for Voyageurs Cup...

[Carts]

Separate thread so everyone can see it easily...

I just received an e-mail from Ben Rycroft in regards to what Toronto needs tomorrow to win the cup (single point is all)...

See below...

= = =

Hey John,

I just spoke with Richard Scott at the CSA to confirm - yes, Toronto needs only a tie to advance.

The CSA will be sending around an email later today to clarify the confusion. I can forward it to you if you're not on their list.

Additionally, there is a presser later today (2:15 EST) if you need any more info.

= = =

Full tie-breaking formula/rules...

1. Most points in all group matchs;
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams;
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams;
4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams;
5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches;
6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches;
7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots.

= = = =

The Voyageurs Cup will be presented June 18th in Montreal...

Thanks all,
Carts...

[rocker]

yay!
so the wikipedia was wrong all the time ... shoulda known not to trust wiki. I just changed it :)

[billyfly]

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[Ageroo]

screw the tie....just win the damn game so there will be no confusion and people claiming it is not fair! :)

[Torcida]

So what exactly IS the tiebreaker(s)? If we lose then beat Montreal, do we win the cup?!

:confused:

[rocker]

screw the tie....just win the damn game so there will be no confusion and people claiming it is not fair! :)

let's go for the 12 points!!!!!

show those USL cunts that MLS is massively better!!!

[rocker]

So what exactly IS the tiebreaker? If we lose then beat Montreal, do we win the cup?!

1st -- points against the team you're tied with.
2nd -- who knows.. CSA will explain later.

so if we lose to Vancouver, then beat Montreal, the 2nd tiebreaker, whaever the fuck that is, will come into play.

[Torcida]

1st -- points against the team you're tied with.
2nd -- who knows.. CSA will explain later.

so if we lose to Vancouver, then beat Montreal, the 2nd tiebreaker, whaever the fuck that is, will come into play.
Probably Goal Difference. but it could be goal difference between the two teams or GD overall... Shouldn't the rules be made clear BEFORE the start of the competition?

[Nodoubtguy]

Separate thread so everyone can see it easily...

I just received an e-mail from Ben Rycroft in regards to what Toronto needs tonight to win the cup (single point is all)...


The game is tomorrow, right???

[Redpunkfiddle]

Wha... but... my precious Complete Canadian Championship Scenerio Thread.... ruined!

Sack the CSA.

[ACSertL]

screw the tie....just win the damn game so there will be no confusion and people claiming it is not fair! :)

This is the attitude the team should have as well, especially after that shocking display on Saturday night.

And Torcida brings up a good point as well...will the goal differential be based on total games or just the head to head? It should be the latter if they are looking for consistency.

[Carts]

The game is tomorrow, right???

That's just me mis-typing... Sorry about that...

Edited it and fixed...

Game is tomorrow...

Carts...

[billyfly]

Carts - any word on the trophy presentation if it would be tomorrow or at MTL if TFC do capture it?

[Carts]

Carts - any word on the trophy presentation if it would be tomorrow or at MTL if TFC do capture it?

Great question - and one I should have asked...

I'll look into it now...

Carts...

[Lucky Strike]

Separate thread so everyone can see it easily...

I just received an e-mail from Ben Rycroft in regards to what Toronto needs tomorrow to win the cup (single point is all)...

See below...

= = =

Hey John,

I just spoke with Richard Scott at the CSA to confirm - yes, Toronto needs only a tie to advance.

The CSA will be sending around an email later today to clarify the confusion. I can forward it to you if you're not on their list.

Additionally, there is a presser later today (2:15 EST) if you need any more info.

= = =

Thanks all,
Carts...

Big, BIG props for writing in to get an answer. Thank you. And even if it wasn't you, well big props anyway for telling us all.

[Lucky Strike]

yay!
so the wikipedia was wrong all the time ... shoulda known not to trust wiki. I just changed it :)

Lol, well in fairness to the guy, he had to make do with the best source available at the time.

[Carts]

Here's the complete tie-breaking formula...

1. Most points in all group matchs;
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams;
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams;
4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams;
5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches;
6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches;
7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots.

How about that #7...!!!

I'll add to first post as well...

Carts...

[Carts]

Carts - any word on the trophy presentation if it would be tomorrow or at MTL if TFC do capture it?

Just got word - here's the info from the press release...

A new champion - be it Toronto FC or Whitecaps FC - will be crowned champion come 18 June when the Voyageurs Cup is presented in Montréal.

Carts...

[billyfly]

^Thanks! The trip to MTL will not be in vain (hopefully).

[rocker]

Here's the complete tie-breaking formula...

1. Most points in all group matchs;
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams;
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams;
4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams;
5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches;
6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches;
7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots.

How about that #7...!!!

I'll add to first post as well...

Carts...

soooo..........if (IF!) Vancouver beat us, then we don't want to get beat by anything more than 1-0, as that will negate #3 and #4. Then we could beat Montreal by a high enough score to win #5

[BuSaPuNk]

Great to clear it up thanks Ben and Carts!! Can't wait to see the trophy given to us in Montreal!! Revenge is a dish best served cold!!

[brad]

screw the tie....just win the damn game so there will be no confusion and people claiming it is not fair! :)

No chance of that. Montreal fans on the Voyagers board are already talking about the whole thing being fixed (because the linesman that gave the much discussed offside goal is from Ontario:hump:)

I agree though, lets win the bloody game convincingly.

[werewolf]

what about the linesmen from the two Vancouver matches?

Or the ref. last year from when we played Van. at home?

[brad]

Just got word - here's the info from the press release...

A new champion - be it Toronto FC or Whitecaps FC - will be crowned champion come 18 June when the Voyageurs Cup is presented in Montréal.

Carts...

That is sweet. I love the idea of getting presented with the Cup in Montreal... (although BMO would have been nicer)

[brad]

what about the linesmen from the two Vancouver matches?

Or the ref. last year from when we played Van. at home?

Quit talking logically...:)

That was brought up and selectively ignored.

[rocker]

hahaha. Maybe Montreal should SCORE MORE THAN ZERO GOALS before complaining about the refs taking 1 goal away....

now, if they wanted to blame the BIASED crossbars they kept hitting, then I could understand ;)

those crossbars at Saputo are biased against the Impact.. they hate the Limp Act as much as we do.

[uncle p]

just curious, what if a worst case scenario happens and we lose to both Van city and Montreal? when and where will the cup be presented to VAN?

[Carts]

just curious, what if a worst case scenario happens and we lose to both Van city and Montreal? when and where will the cup be presented to VAN?

Montreal on June 18th...

Carts...

[Bluenose13]

just curious, what if a worst case scenario happens and we lose to both Van city and Montreal? when and where will the cup be presented to VAN?Please do not ever type this scenario again.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

So, to summarise the possible scenarios for tomorrow night's game:



If Vancouver wins by two goals or more, Vancouver wins the V Cup.
If Toronto draws or wins, we win the V Cup.
If Vancouver wins by exactly one goal, they will lead us by three points overall, but they would be tied with us on head-to-head points, head-to-head goal differential, and head-to-head total goals. In this case, the V Cup would be decided by our match against Montreal. We would have to beat Montreal by more than two goals in order to be tied with Vancouver on points but ahead of them on goal differential.

This is an interesting turn of events. The wiki article and the original article on the CSA web page were flat-out wrong with regard to the tie-breaking procedure. And here I was thinking that away goals mattered, when in fact they have no direct significance at all.

[Chewy Unikronik]

Full tie-breaking formula/rules...

1. Most points in all group matchs;
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams;
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams;
4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams;
5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches;
6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches;
7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots.

Can we say, "MASS CONFUSIONS?":hump:

[Lucky Strike]

So, to summarise the possible scenarios for tomorrow night's game:



If Vancouver wins by two goals or more, Vancouver wins the V Cup.
If Toronto draws or wins, we win the V Cup.
If Vancouver wins by exactly one goal, we will be tied on overall points, head-to-head points, head-to-head goal differential, and head-to-head total goals. In this case, the V Cup would be decided by our match against Montreal.
This is an interesting turn of events. The wiki article and the original article on the CSA web page were flat-out wrong with regard to the tie-breaking procedure. And here I was thinking that away goals mattered, when in fact they have no direct significance at all.

Now THAT'S an awful thought! Blasphemy! Not to say I don't appreciate you laying it out simply like this.

Just to add, if the third scenario occurs, we only need a draw against Montreal for the cup.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Now THAT'S an awful thought! Blasphemy! Not to say I don't appreciate you laying it out simply like this.

Just to add, if the third scenario occurs, we only need a draw against Montreal for the cup.

No, a one-goal Vancouver win would only tie us on the head-to-head statistics. Any Vancouver win would put us three points behind them in the overall standings. We would still need to beat Montreal just to be tied with Vancouver on points.

If Vancouver wins by a goal tomorrow night, here's how the tiebreaking procedure would play out for the Montreal game:


None of the head-to-head tiebreaking procedures between T.O. and Vancouver would matter.
We would trail Vancouver by three points overall and by two goals in overall goal differential. We would need to beat Montreal by more than two goals in order to beat Vancouver on GD.
If we beat Montreal by exactly two goals, then we would have to rely on our last match being a high-scoring game - total goals would come into effect.
If, after the Montreal game, we're tied on everything, including overall total goals, then we better get our horseshoes out because we'll need luck to be on our side for the drawing of lots.

As interesting as I find dissecting the V Cup tiebreaking procedure, there's an easy way for us to win it all. We just have to win the damn game!:scarf:

Edit: I fixed my post regarding the possible results for the Toronto/Vancouver game.

[Nuvinho]

Here is my scenerio............................

We tie 1-1.........We win!!!! end of scenerio!!!

[Redpunkfiddle]

So, to summarise the possible scenarios for tomorrow night's game:



If Vancouver wins by two goals or more, Vancouver wins the V Cup.
If Toronto draws or wins, we win the V Cup.
If Vancouver wins by exactly one goal, they will lead us by three points overall, but they would be tied with us on head-to-head points, head-to-head goal differential, and head-to-head total goals. In this case, the V Cup would be decided by our match against Montreal. We would have to beat Montreal by more than two goals in order to be tied with Vancouver on points but ahead of them on goal differential.
This is an interesting turn of events. The wiki article and the original article on the CSA web page were flat-out wrong with regard to the tie-breaking procedure. And here I was thinking that away goals mattered, when in fact they have no direct significance at all.

Actually...

If Vancouver beats us by one goal (no matter what the particular score- 1-0, 2-1, 6-5), then we need to beat Montreal by two goals. No matter what the exact score. We'll be even on Goal Difference with Vancouver, and ahead on overall Goals.

[rocker]

thankfully, 2 of the 3 options for moving on are in our favour (win, tie).
Vancouver has one option to move on: win.

Last year we were up 2-1 in Vancouver late in the game... coulda won... then that late goal by Sebrango tied it.

[Lucky Strike]

No, a one-goal Vancouver win would only tie us on the head-to-head statistics. Any Vancouver win would put us three points behind them in the overall standings. We would still need to beat Montreal just to be tied with Vancouver on points.

If Vancouver wins by a goal tomorrow night, here's how the tiebreaking procedure would play out for the Montreal game:


None of the head-to-head tiebreaking procedures between T.O. and Vancouver would matter.
We would trail Vancouver by three points overall and by two goals in overall goal differential. We would need to beat Montreal by more than two goals in order to beat Vancouver on GD.
If we beat Montreal by exactly two goals, then we would have to rely on our last match being a high-scoring game - total goals would come into effect.
If, after the Montreal game, we're tied on everything, including overall total goals, then we better get our horseshoes out because we'll need luck to be on our side for the drawing of lots.
As interesting as I find dissecting the V Cup tiebreaking procedure, there's an easy way for us to win it all. We just have to win the damn game!:scarf:

Edit: I fixed my post regarding the possible results for the Toronto/Vancouver game.

*facepalm* Of course. You'll have to forgive me, it's Monday. If others are like me, we all know what we need but when we try to put it down into words, we do so incorrectly involuntarily.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

why will it presented in Montreal, when TFC win it tomorrow night why not then?

[Carts]

why will it presented in Montreal, when TFC win it tomorrow night why not then?

The cup is being presented in Montreal no matter who wins it... I know this for sure as I received the information via a release from the tournament officials... Even if Vancouver wins it - it'll presented in Montreal June 18th...

As for why, perhaps they are starting a tradition of the current cup holders handing over the trophy to the new cup holders... That's just a guess...

Carts...

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Guys, I just read over the tiebreaking procedure on the CSA web site. It would seem that something was left out of the above procedure. Here is how deadlocks are broken according to the CSA link:

The champion will be determined by:
1. Most points in all group matches
2. Greater # of points in matches between the teams concerned
3. Greater goal difference in matches between the teams concerned (if more than two teams finish equal on points)
4. Greater # of goals scored in matches among the teams concerned (if more than two teams finish equal on points)
5. Results from all group matches
a) greater goal difference in all group matches
b) greater # of goals scored in all group matches
6. Drawing of lots

What the heck do those bolded statements mean? Do all three teams have to be tied in order for head-to-head goal difference or total goals to come into affect? If only two teams are tied after nos. 1 and 2 above, do said teams settle their tie with no. 5? I would seriously like to know the answer to this question, because I'm a tad confused right now.

[H Bomb]

well basically if there were only two teams then that scenario would never take place. If only two teams were tied one would have a better goal difference, or they'd have the same amount of goals as each other. so the bold statement is just poorly clarifying that

[Toronto Ruffrider]

well basically if there were only two teams then that scenario would never take place. If only two teams were tied one would have a better goal difference, or they'd have the same amount of goals as each other. so the bold statement is just poorly clarifying that

If two teams are tied on head-to-head points and head-to-head goal differential, it stands to reason that they would have to be tied on total goals as well. In this sense, I understand why tiebreaker no. 4 has that clause. However, I do not understand why more than two teams have to be tied on goal differential in order for that stat to come into affect. It's common to have two teams that are tied on head-to-head points but separated on goal differential.

[troy1982]

I so wish Goal Difference was the 1st tie breaker in this and MLS, it's so much easier to figure out who's on top and usually makes the last games more important.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I so wish Goal Difference was the 1st tie breaker in this and MLS, it's so much easier to figure out who's on top and usually makes the last games more important.

I agree. With goal difference, anyone can figure out where each team stands in a table just by looking at the stats in said table. With head-to-head tiebreakers, one must pour over the individual matches in order to separate tied teams.

[Technorgasm]

Hey Limp-Act!

Hey Shite-Caps!









EAT IT.








:canada: Ktnxbye

[Steve]

I agree. With goal difference, anyone can figure out where each team stands in a table just by looking at the stats in said table. With head-to-head tiebreakers, one must pour over the individual matches in order to separate tied teams.

I disagree. When you're trying to determine the best team in a group tourny like this, head to head is the best measure. In this case, if we tied Vancouver, and lost to Montreal, we would not go on if you look at goal differential. That is despite the fact that we never lost to the champions (like of like last year...). Personally, I would rather look at head to head first. If you want to know who the better team is, have them play each other. In the NCC, they already have, and TFC would have come up better (one win and one tie). Though I understand that goal difference is easier to tell in the standings, I think head to head can be more accurate for determining a champion.

[Carts]

I disagree. When you're trying to determine the best team in a group tourny like this, head to head is the best measure. In this case, if we tied Vancouver, and lost to Montreal, we would not go on if you look at goal differential. That is despite the fact that we never lost to the champions (like of like last year...). Personally, I would rather look at head to head first. If you want to know who the better team is, have them play each other. In the NCC, they already have, and TFC would have come up better (one win and one tie). Though I understand that goal difference is easier to tell in the standings, I think head to head can be more accurate for determining a champion.

I agree... It may not be the historical way to do it - but I prefer head-to-head as the first tie-breaker...

Carts...

[SweetOwnGoal]

Guys, I just read over the tiebreaking procedure on the CSA web site. It would seem that something was left out of the above procedure. Here is how deadlocks are broken according to the CSA link:

The champion will be determined by:
1. Most points in all group matches
2. Greater # of points in matches between the teams concerned
3. Greater goal difference in matches between the teams concerned (if more than two teams finish equal on points)
4. Greater # of goals scored in matches among the teams concerned (if more than two teams finish equal on points)
5. Results from all group matches
a) greater goal difference in all group matches
b) greater # of goals scored in all group matches
6. Drawing of lots

What the heck do those bolded statements mean? Do all three teams have to be tied in order for head-to-head goal difference or total goals to come into affect? If only two teams are tied after nos. 1 and 2 above, do said teams settle their tie with no. 5? I would seriously like to know the answer to this question, because I'm a tad confused right now.

It's referring to the possibility of a three way tie. Those clauses only kick in if three or more (in future) teams are tied.
http://www.24thminute.com/2009/06/vancouver-cant-win-v-cup-tonight.html

[rocker]

ok, so to settle things further in my mind, Vancouver cannot jump around and squirt champagne and prance around like champions TONIGHT.
the only ones who can do that are TFC... good... And TFC can live for another day even in the worst case scenario. A worst case scenario would set up a massive match in Montreal where we could see TFC hoist the cup at Saputo.

[ensco]

Anyone else think Tiebreak # 5 makes no sense at all?

[SweetOwnGoal]

ok, so to settle things further in my mind, Vancouver cannot jump around and squirt champagne and prance around like champions TONIGHT.
the only ones who can do that are TFC... good... And TFC can live for another day even in the worst case scenario. A worst case scenario would set up a massive match in Montreal where we could see TFC hoist the cup at Saputo.

Vancouver can't clinch.

Toronto clinches with a win or draw.

If Vancouver wins:
By 1 = Toronto must beat Montreal by two goals
By 2 = Toronto must beat Montreal by four or five (depending on how many goals Vancouver scores tonight) goals.
By 3 = Forget about it (or by 6 goals...)

[rocker]

By 3 = Forget about it (or by 6 goals...)

if it comes to this scenario, then TFC must bribe Saputo to have another Santos meltdown, in return for entry into MLS immediately ;)
Nobody will notice because it'll be just another meltdown.

[craigtfc]

what if we tie then lose to montreal?

[rocker]

what if we tie then lose to montreal?

doesn't matter.. a tie tonight takes us through!!! :)

but if we do tie tonight, a nice "cherry on top" would be a win against Montreal.

[troy1982]

ok, so to settle things further in my mind, Vancouver cannot jump around and squirt champagne and prance around like champions TONIGHT.
the only ones who can do that are TFC... good... And TFC can live for another day even in the worst case scenario. A worst case scenario would set up a massive match in Montreal where we could see TFC hoist the cup at Saputo.

Vancouver can't clinch.

Toronto clinches with a win or draw.

If Vancouver wins:
By 1 = Toronto must beat Montreal by two goals
By 2 = Toronto must beat Montreal by four or five (depending on how many goals Vancouver scores tonight) goals.
By 3 = Forget about it (or by 6 goals...)

Vancouver will clinch it tonight if they win by 2 goals regardless of what TFC does to Montreal. So tonight will decide if TFC or Vancouver go to the CCL and the Montreal match has no importance to either team.

[GlenM]

Just got word - here's the info from the press release...

A new champion - be it Toronto FC or Whitecaps FC - will be crowned champion come 18 June when the Voyageurs Cup is presented in Montréal.

Carts...


YES!

GlenM

:scarf:

[117]

From CSA website:

The Tie-Breaking Criteria are determined in the following order:
1. Most points in all group matches
2. Greater # of points in matches between the teams concerned
3. Greater goal difference in matches between the teams concerned (if more than two teams finish equal on points) **
4. Greater # of goals scored in matches among the teams concerned (if more than two teams finish equal on points) **
5. Results from all group matches
a) greater goal difference in all group matches
b) greater # of goals scored in all group matches
6. Drawing of lots
**Tie-Breaker criteria # 3 & 4 are not applicable as only two teams are mathematically eligible to win the 2009 Nutrilite Canadian Championship.

Based on these criteria the following three scenarios are possible:

#1 – Toronto FC win or draw tonight. Toronto FC win the Nutrilite Canadian Championship.

A win would put Toronto on 9 points, an insurmountable lead as Tuesday is Vancouver’s final match in the 2009 tournament. If the match ends in a draw both teams would have 7 points, however Toronto would be the champion based on having a greater number of points in the two matches played between themselves and Vancouver. Toronto (1-1-0 4 points) compared to Vancouver (0-1-1 1 point).

#2 – Vancouver Whitecaps FC win tonight. Vancouver finishes with 9 points.

This scenario would force Toronto to defeat the Impact de Montréal in the final match of the tournament on 18 June in Montréal to draw even with Vancouver on 9 points. A loss or a draw for Toronto in the 18 June match would see Vancouver crowned champions.

#3 - Vancouver Whitecaps FC win tonight. Toronto FC defeats Montréal on 18 June. Both teams finish the Championship even on 9 points.

The first two Tie-Breaker Criteria of total points in group play and total points in matches between teams concerned would not separate the two teams. Tie-Breaker criteria three and four are not applicable as these Tie-Breakers only apply if more than two teams finish equal on points. The next applicable criteria is goal differential from all group matches (both clubs currently have a +2 goal differential). If the final goal differential is equal the next applicable criteria is number of goals scored in all group matches (currently Vancouver leads this category with 3 goals scored compared to Toronto’s 2). Finally, if the two clubs are equal in all criteria a drawing of lots would occur to decide the 2009 Nutrilite Champion.

[sulfur]

See here:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=13965

[TFC07]

TFC have to score 3 or 4 goals to win the cup, right? TFC can't even score more than a goal in this tournament. I think MLSE might have to bribe refs, montreal players, coaches and their management if want to score 3+ goals.

[117]

See here

http://www.canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=3670

[Laurignano]

4 Goals...

[BC101]

4 Goals...
4 goals against a team mad as fuck that they got jobbed in Toronto....

[Blizzard]

TFC have to score 3 or 4 goals to win the cup, right? TFC can't even score more than a goal in this tournament. I think MLSE might have to bribe refs, montreal players, coaches and their management if want to score 3+ goals.

Four to pull even with Vancouver. Five to win it outright. That's without conceding any btw.

Van is plus four. We are even.

B

[Esquire]

From CSA website:

The Tie-Breaking Criteria are determined in the following order:
1. Most points in all group matches
2. Greater # of points in matches between the teams concerned
3. Greater goal difference in matches between the teams concerned (if more than two teams finish equal on points) **


1) If we win against Montreal, we have 9 points and Van has 9 points.
2) Against each other, we both have 3 points.
3) Van has +1 and we have -1. It's over!!

[kdzb]

We don't need any senario. We are done period.
I guarantee you, we will lose in Montreal just to add to the embarassement.

[noochie]

LOL... love the optimism of this thread... but cmon... its 4 goals

EDIT: 4 goals... and no new strikers between now and then

[117]

Esquire, I agree there is not much hope, but notice, that the 3rd tie-breaker only comes into play if MORE THAN TWO TEAMS ARE TIED.
The applicable tie-breaker is tournament goals against, and in that, there is slight hope.

[Esquire]

Esquire, I agree there is not much hope, but notice, that the 3rd tie-breaker only comes into play if MORE THAN TWO TEAMS ARE TIED.
The applicable tie-breaker is tournament goals against, and in that, there is slight hope.

Ok, I didn't notice the "more than 2 teams" part. So, we still have a chance. Unlikely...but, still a chance.

[117]

I'm not saying that they will do it. I'm just pointing out that Dobson wasn't wrong. He may have missed 100 other things tonight, but HE HAD THE TIE-BREAK CORRECT.

Sadly, you can't deserve silverware, if you can't draw a USL side without their skipper.

[Kevvv]

Goal diff is the decider.

[AL-MO]

Wow that Real Madrid friendly and the rescheduled game give me such a warm feeling right now.:rolleyes:

[billyfly]

http://www.fotosearch.com/bthumb/CSK/CSK007/pr75863.jpg

[117]

Kevvv, Tournament goal diff is the decider. Head to head goal diff is NOT the decider, since there will not be 3 teams tied for first.

[Nuvinho]

how many times have we scored 4 goals in a game?

how often does a home team lose 4-0?

I have no idea how we can do this in Montreal. Montreal maybe out of the tourney, but they will still want to get at least one point.

Unless we get Kaka, Ronaldo, and Torres in the transfer window, it will be very hard for us to score more than 3 goals.

sorry, just realistic.

[billyfly]

NEWS FLASH: TFC ARE eliminated from the cup.

[Ratven]

NEWS FLASH: TFC ARE eliminated from the cup.

Exactly. Thread title should be changed.

Message body reads: We're shit and we now definitely know it.

[FluSH]

Thank you Mo Johnston for posting this...

[boban]

Four to pull even with Vancouver. Five to win it outright. That's without conceding any btw.

Van is plus four. We are even.
You are correct.
Fuck .. even just one goal tonight for us would have been HUGE.

[boban]

Wow that Real Madrid friendly and the rescheduled game give me such a warm feeling right now.:rolleyes:
Well it has no bearing on the game just played.

[Ladies Love Julius James]

Wait, so TFC score 5 and they're through or is their no mathematical way they make it true.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

We don't need any senario. We are done period.
I guarantee you, we will lose in Montreal just to add to the embarassement.

we dont always see eye to eye on things but i sure as fuck agree with you on this

[werewolf]

Santos scored 4 in the second half against Montreal...we have to halves to do it...

:noidea:

[Ladies Love Julius James]

WUh Di Ass people crying for. We could of had 4 at MTL at home. Play a 1-3-6 LOL

[Carts]

We're done...

If we win in Montreal, we have 9-pts, so does Vancouver...

Then, it goes to the tie-breakers, and Vancouver wins it...

Here are the tie-breakers:
1. Most points in all group matchs; (we'd both have 9pts)
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams; (we'd both have 3pts)
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams; (Vancouver scored 2-goals, we scored 1)

IT'S OVER...

[Daveisonfire]

We're done...

If we win in Montreal, we have 9-pts, so does Vancouver...

Then, it goes to the tie-breakers, and Vancouver wins it...

Here are the tie-breakers:
1. Most points in all group matchs; (we'd both have 9pts)
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams; (we'd both have 3pts)
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams; (Vancouver scored 2-goals, we scored 1)

IT'S OVER...

What was the 4 goal crap Sportsnet was saying then....


Maybe they are carrying that game and still want people to tune in thinking it will be worth something......

[Carts]

What was the 4 goal crap Sportsnet was saying then....


Maybe they are carrying that game and still want people to tune in thinking it will be worth something......

Unfortunately, yes - thats probably exactly what they were doing...

The game (according to the CSA & the tournament rules) is meaningless...

But if they said that - nobody would watch / or the CSA is that corrupt to change the rules mid-tourny (don't discount that from the CSA!)

Carts...

[Cashcleaner]

^ I don't get it though. The club itself (TFC) is adamant that we can still win by beating Montreal by 4 goals. I don't think this is over just yet.

[Keystone FC]

Santos scored 4 in the second half against Montreal...we have to halves to do it...

:noidea:

Damn straight!
:drum::flare::scarf::drum::flare:

[MFG1]

hhhahahaha well maybe next year, then we have a chance for everyone to get a turn. Montreal first, van second, maybe next year boys , remember the five year plan !!!!!!!!!!

[profit89]

It's over

[CretanBull]

Santos scored 4 in the second half against Montreal...we have to halves to do it...


Unfortunately we'd need about 6 games to score 4 goals.

[Fort Rouillé Toronto]

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyfly http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=549734#post549734)
NEWS FLASH: TFC ARE eliminated from the cup.


Exactly. Thread title should be changed.



Winning by 4 goals in Montreal does not seem likely, as scoring is one of our biggest problems.

[MrHawk]

After watching all these performances this year, even if we could advance via a 4 goal win, do you really see TFC going to MTL and winning 4-0?

[flatpicker]

this whole situation is silliness!
Toronto can't figure out how to score goals,
and nobody even seems to agree on whether or not this tournament is over!

How hard can this be??!!

[brad]

Montreal have nothing to gain in the match expect putting the final nail in the coffin for the supposedly best team in Canada.

They will park 11 men behind the ball for the full 90.

[zeelaw]

SCENARIOS FOR 18 JUNE FOLLOWING WHITECAPS FC 2:0 WIN OVER TORONTO FC ON 2 JUNE
* A Toronto FC loss or draw to Montréal, regardless of score – Vancouver wins championship
* A Toronto FC victory by three goals or less in difference, regardless of score – Vancouver wins championship
* A Toronto FC victory by 4+ goals in difference, regardless of score – Toronto wins championship

[TOBOR !]

We're done...

If we win in Montreal, we have 9-pts, so does Vancouver...

Then, it goes to the tie-breakers, and Vancouver wins it...

Here are the tie-breakers:
1. Most points in all group matchs; (we'd both have 9pts)
2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams; (we'd both have 3pts)
3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams; (Vancouver scored 2-goals, we scored 1)

IT'S OVER...

That's how I read it as well, especially as the language in TB2 seems to indicate head-to-head, this must also be true for TB3 (rather than all tournament games - they all featured at least one of the tied teams - which would lead to the 4+ goals synopsis), otherwise the answer to TB2 is the same as TB1.

[Dbl_D]

it doesn't matter if we make the champions league (apart for the CAD hardware for winning) because, based on last night performance, we will be completely outclassed in every extra game we get to play... absolutely an utter disgrace

[TOBOR !]

^ ha - true - imagine failing to qualify out of a group that includes (insert names of three other crap teams here).

[Cashcleaner]

Guys, think about it. If the competition was over and Vancouver won, how come "WHITECAPS WIN THE NCC" isn't plastered all over the sports news in Vancouver or even mentioned on their club's website.

Think about it. Please.

[ensco]

I don't want to get through. We'd be doing it the wrong way, pummeling an opponent that's playing for nothing and laid down for us. It would prove nothing to me.

It wouldn't change the fact that we were horrible, again, against a motivated opponent, when it counted.

[canucker]

^^^
I don't think Montreal will lay down for us. I think they'll be spurred on to once again knock us out of the tourney and send a big F.U. to the MLS.

[rocker]

the question for montreal, is does this game matter more than the regular season?
they are not doing well in the USL season, which is all they have now. They need to start performing in their league.

the TFC game is the first of 3 in 6 days for them. Two days after TFC, they have a league match with Vancouver, and 3 days later a league match with Miami.

[rocker]

2x4L9s2KOOM

[menefreghista]

the TFC game is the first of 3 in 6 days for them. Two days after TFC, they have a league match with Vancouver, and 3 days later a league match with Miami.

3 games in 6 days in fairly standard in the USL. Plus they are allowed 5 subs in USL games.

There is no way they will roll over for us.

[rocker]

3 games in 6 days in fairly standard in the USL. Plus they are allowed 5 subs in USL games.

There is no way they will roll over for us.

nobody is saying they will roll over for us.

I'm saying that they cannot devote their complete energies and best players to the meaningless TFC game when they play 2 more games in the following 5 days in their more important league competition.

If they were still in the Voyageurs Cup, they would of course dedicate all resources to the TFC game. Can't see them doing that now.

Some have suggested Montreal will get up for this game like no other. I'm questioning that, given the tight schedule.

[canucker]

nobody is saying they will roll over for us.

Actually, people are saying that:


I don't want to get through. We'd be doing it the wrong way, pummeling an opponent that's playing for nothing and laid down for us. It would prove nothing to me.

Hence, my original post.

[Dunkers]

Watching Vancouver break out the Champain after the match, kinda leads me to beleive that they have won (felt almost as bad as watching Braz with the trophy last year). I dont think a team would organize that if they were not 100% sure they had won

[thrillgill]

this is from the CSA website!

http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_Clubs/national.asp

Vancouver will win the championship if the Impact can hold Toronto FC to three goals or less. Toronto FC needs to win by four goals in difference to retake first place and win the championship.

[Dust2]

this is from the CSA website!

http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_Clubs/national.asp

Vancouver will win the championship if the Impact can hold Toronto FC to three goals or less. Toronto FC needs to win by four goals in difference to retake first place and win the championship.

There is some hope. Miracle can happen right?

[ensco]

^canucker, I don't speak for too many "people" on here, in my experience!

I don't think the Impact will "roll over". I just don't think they're motivated.

Teams actually do get through in the situation TFC are in. If I get the time I will try to find some group stage games in WC or Euro where a team got in in their last game because they walloped a good but demoralized side that was already out. Argentina-Peru in 78 springs to mind (it's not the best example, there were strong rumors of payoffs in that game).

It wouldn't make me especially happy to get through that way. I know most others would feel differently (no need for the majority to tell me how wrong I am).