Sit Down

[cmonyoureds]

Today's game was fantastic, marred only by the directive to sit down by the guest services member in 110. It ruined my day.
NOBODY COMPLAINED.
In fact the seats in the rows behind me were empty.
All because supervisor Tracy had been told by Director Mike Burns to enforce the sitting provision in lower 110. 111 is next. Direct quotes from the yellow jacket. (name with held for obvious reasons)

I don't get it. Nobody complained. Similar complaints are all over these boards. Who sticks up for us? The south end may be sheltered from such treatment, but have the supporter groups tried to address any of this with the f/o? Soon you'll be a solo curiosity to a stadium full of comatose highest bidders.

I bought Marlies tix. I bought the jersey, the overpriced beer, the excessive parking charges, the scarf, etc. etc. etc. All while tix around me were scalped to the higheset bidder. I can't take it. Maybe I should treat the whole thing like it treats me, another $ to be made. Should I start scalping my tickets? I can support the team much cheaper on my couch at home.

Ticket demand is allegedly down. We're in a recession. H*** I wonder if they'd notice if I didn't renew? Or does the 15 000 waiting list pre-empt them caring? MLSE can shove it. Right into the empty seats. You're killing off the very reason that generates your publicity.

This is our house, my a**. As long as I stand where you say, sit where you say, cheer when you say so, etc. etc. etc. Let me repeat, NOBODY COMPLAINED.

I love this team. Not this organization. I really have no desire to enter the building again. You can deal with the highest bidder, foul mouthed, drunks that get my seats for the highest price, 'cause that's what's going on around me as I sit quietly.

This is my rant, I respectfully ask again if the supporter groups safely tucked away in their "free" zone have communicated at all with the f/o about this, or have merely accepted whatever the f/o have told them?

[prizby]

im with you 100%, the scalpers gotta go, there is no need for scalpers in our stadium, give the tickets to those WHO want to go!

[Pookie]

Who at the front office should these comments be directed to? I've got to think someone other than our ticket rep.

We were in the standing section of 110 yesterday but hold a partial in row 11. We've been able to stand for every match since the start of the season.

I'll add my voice to yours in that if the rows behind are standing (and knowing the people there.. at least 3 rows deep... they clearly do want to stand), what is the problem? Standing does not block 111's view of the pitch as they are standing too.

109 can clearly see.

Obviously, we bought the tickets knowing it is a non standing section so if they choose to enforce that we have little recourse. I am just curious as to whether they are really receiving complaints from this section or if this is simply a response to enforce the non-standing thing stadium wide.

If there are no complaints, then the chances of 110 becoming a complete standing section next year bode well. Of course, this means we have to make sure that the this view is heard by the right people.

[4evared]

I too, am a partial pack holder in 110. I was at yesterdays game. I sat in row 10 and stood all game. I stood with the knowledge that at any moment I will get a order to sit from a steward or from someone sitting behind me. It didn't happen and I had a great game. If it did' I knew that my time at the game would be ruined and I would have been heading for empty seats further up. Everyone behind me ended up standing and they seemed to be having a great time and were more than willing to chat at halftime. I believe that for most people they are so used to sitting in their seats stuffing their faces with food and waiting to be entertained, that the thought of standing, cheering and chanting ,along with the idea of becoming part of the entertainment themselves, that once they stand up and lose their inhibitions that standing will become more accepted.

[MG42]

Today's game was fantastic, marred only by the directive to sit down by the guest services member in 110. It ruined my day.
NOBODY COMPLAINED.
In fact the seats in the rows behind me were empty.
All because supervisor Tracy had been told by Director Mike Burns to enforce the sitting provision in lower 110. 111 is next. Direct quotes from the yellow jacket. (name with held for obvious reasons)



I don't think 111 is next...it's a supporters section.

http://web.mlsnet.com/t280/imgs/tickets/2009/09_seating_map.gif

[bob]

Jack is making up a list of people that are in this situation. PM him if you haven't already.

I got kicked out during the second game (for standing). I sent an email and spoke with my rep in person and on the phone, on how I was treated (being tossed at half time while making my way to take a piss, no personal warning, being singled out for no reason, etc..). What really pisses me off is that I was told by my ticket rep that he'll look into it and get back to me. It's been a month and still nothing. I sent him a reminder email asking what's going on, and still no response. I really love the team but as stated early the organization is not so great.

I'm thinking that I might start pimping my tickets next year.

[FluSH]

111 is a straight supporters section... It's only going to get better

[InTheCrowd]

I sat in row 10 and stood all game.

What? :D

[Jack]

Guys I am taking PMs from people about the security issues, including the sitting policy and the heavy-handed actions by security.

We're going to set something up to express these concerns and elicit a response from the team and from security. We need to get an idea of how many.

Can you guys who have had problems please send me a message?

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

Thankfully no issues yet at the back of section 109. Noticeably less people standing in front of my row 31.

Jack thanks for assembling the list of issues and taking it forward for us.

[brad]

Who at the front office should these comments be directed to? I've got to think someone other than our ticket rep.

We were in the standing section of 110 yesterday but hold a partial in row 11. We've been able to stand for every match since the start of the season.

I'll add my voice to yours in that if the rows behind are standing (and knowing the people there.. at least 3 rows deep... they clearly do want to stand), what is the problem? Standing does not block 111's view of the pitch as they are standing too.

This is exactly what happened to us at the back of 105 - people wanting to stand, not blocking anyone's view being forced to sit - even the guys against the back railing were forced to sit. In 104 they've done the same to those in front of the away supporters.

What my ticket rep told me is that they will enforce it in the whole section whether or not there are complaints in your area - because if they let part of the section stand, others will assume it's okay as well.

[Oor Wullie]

I am a STH in 105. I haven't sat there since game two,I prefer to stand to support my team, so the beer garden is my new home,it's getting fuller every game. All those who want to stand come to the beer garden. Maybe those in the FO will see the beer gardens packed and the seats empty. They allow the 20 odd away supporters to stand and alienate the 2000 home supporters who are there to support the team and help create the atmosphere that the FO markets. Ridiculous:(

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

I was in 110 in the 15 row and i was standing up and no one came to tell us to sit down, they only came by b/c someone was smokin weed and they were tryin to find them.( i hope i find them next time so i can get a puff LOL )

[C.Ronaldo]

the protest area is the beer garden.

Section 120 was the first to deal with crap and a few of us have gather in the beer tent.

Send a formal letter to your rep.

Hopefully as one, RPB can get something done for us paying fans who actually make the game exciting.

I think Jack is going to bring this up with an official eventually.

and as many of us have already said. F*** MLSE!

[C.Ronaldo]

ps

can anyone get shirts saying

SITTING IS FOR BASEBALL?

[shawn6597]

yeah, im from 104 and the beer garden has become my section as well

[Sonny Cheeba]

i don't think the FO will look at those people in the beer garden and wonder about the empty seats. they'll just see more success of the beer garden's existence.

gotta get rid of that shit.

[cmonyoureds]

I don't think 111 is next...it's a supporters section.




Good point. I wonder if perhaps Mr. Yellow Jacket meant to indicate 109? *shrug* Regardless, I'm still fuming........

[Naturegirl]

AL-MO and i were up between 109 and 110 talking to a few people about this issue as well. Along with Jack taking names and discussing it with the FO, we will also be writing a letter to Mike Burns and Vince to discuss this and a few other issues the 110 people have, that match a few issue's we have in 112

Hopefully we can all have a voice together to deal with these issue's.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

From my seats in section 111, I don't have to worry about the heavy-handed security, but I still sympathize with what other supporters on this board have to go through. The ultra-strict security at BMO is uncalled for. There are ways to satisfy all parties - supporters and casuals - without resorting to a steady stream of ejections.

To be frank, I think the FO is taking supporters in general for granted. Most supporters do not pay $50 or $60 per ticket (myself included), but we add the atmosphere, an intangible quality that BMO cannot do without. Why was TFC so popular in its first two seasons? People attended games because of the atmosphere, not the quality of play. Take away that atmosphere and attendance would drop, I guarantee it.

To TFC management, I urge you to take steps to rectify the security situation, both in the short term and the long term. In the short term, you could instruct your security personnel to not be so quick to eject standing supporters left-right-and-centre. In the long term, I think it's absolutely necessary that you re-evaluate your season ticket relocation programme. Clearly, the current programme is not working and a lot of supporters simply cannot buy tickets in supporters sections. Instead of trying to move supporters laterally, it might be time to move them upward. If casuals can sit at the bottom of a section while supporters stand at the top, I don't see what the problem is.

As for the work that Jack et al are putting into addressing complaints from supporters, thank you. Your hard work epitomises the "All for One" motto that can be found on the back of the neck of each TFC jersey. BMO has a better atmosphere because of its organised support base, and that's what being the 12th man is all about.

[Mark in Ottawa]

From my seats in section 111, I don't have to worry about the heavy-handed security, but I still sympathize with what other supporters on this board have to go through. The ultra-strict security at BMO is uncalled for. There are ways to satisfy all parties - supporters and casuals - without resorting to a steady stream of ejections.

To be frank, I think the FO is taking supporters in general for granted. Most supporters do not pay $50 or $60 per ticket (myself included), but we add the atmosphere, an intangible quality that BMO cannot do without. Why was TFC so popular in its first two seasons? People attended games because of the atmosphere, not the quality of play. Take away that atmosphere and attendance would drop, I guarantee it.

To TFC management, I urge you to take steps to rectify the security situation, both in the short term and the long term. In the short term, you could instruct your security personnel to not be so quick to eject standing supporters left-right-and-centre. In the long term, I think it's absolutely necessary that you re-evaluate your season ticket relocation programme. Clearly, the current programme is not working and a lot of supporters simply cannot buy tickets in supporters sections. Instead of trying to move supporters laterally, it might be time to move them upward. If casuals can sit at the bottom of a section while supporters stand at the top, I don't see what the problem is.

As for the work that Jack et al are putting into addressing complaints from supporters, thank you. Your hard work epitomises the "All for One" motto that can be found on the back of the neck of each TFC jersey. BMO has a better atmosphere because of its organised support base, and that's what being the 12th man is all about.

Well said! Thanks for that.
I have only attended one game in 110 and since it was pouring rain most fans left after the "fair weather supporters" ran for it were able to stand and enjoy ourselves.

[Afra]

I saw naturgirl talking to a few people in 110 and was wondering if there was a problem. I stood in the second half without any issues from security but everyone behind was standing also without any complaints that I could hear.

The problem with relocation is that someone in a supporters' section needs to move out before someone else can move in. I doubt that will happen as those that are there probably are either 1) a supporter or 2) someone who will bear it because they are cool seats and they do not want to pay more than $20 a game. From the talk on the boards, it sounds like there are some scalpers that hold some seats there - it would be sweet to get rid of them. MLSE may have a tough time, but it cannot be impossible to get those tickets out and available to others.

[Jack]

I saw naturgirl talking to a few people in 110 and was wondering if there was a problem. I stood in the second half without any issues from security but everyone behind was standing also without any complaints that I could hear.

The problem with relocation is that someone in a supporters' section needs to move out before someone else can move in. I doubt that will happen as those that are there probably are either 1) a supporter or 2) someone who will bear it because they are cool seats and they do not want to pay more than $20 a game. From the talk on the boards, it sounds like there are some scalpers that hold some seats there - it would be sweet to get rid of them. MLSE may have a tough time, but it cannot be impossible to get those tickets out and available to others.

The problem with the scalper issue is that they are in bed with MLSE. The team doesn't care and that's been made abundantly clear to us.

[Mark in Ottawa]

The problem with relocation is that someone in a supporters' section needs to move out before someone else can move in. I doubt that will happen as those that are there probably are either 1) a supporter or 2) someone who will bear it because they are cool seats and they do not want to pay more than $20 a game. From the talk on the boards, it sounds like there are some scalpers that hold some seats there - it would be sweet to get rid of them. MLSE may have a tough time, but it cannot be impossible to get those tickets out and available to others.
The solution is obvious... make the south end and the south end of the eastern stands the supporter/standing sections. Move the "I want to sit" folks over to the west side where they can keep tickets in the price range they are in now.

Take a poll of the seasons ticket holders.
Do you mind standing?? If No.. what section/ticket price are your tickets?
Then adjust the size of the supporters/standing sections as needed.


Scalper problem is not a problem in the eyes of MLSE. Tickets sold... problem solved for them. Now if the people buying those tickets end up in a standing section that they didn't want maybe they will stop buying them.

[Maple Leaf Red]

The solution is obvious... make the south end and the south end of the eastern stands the supporter/standing sections. Move the "I want to sit" folks over to the west side where they can keep tickets in the price range they are in now.

Take a poll of the seasons ticket holders.
Do you mind standing?? If No.. what section/ticket price are your tickets?
Then adjust the size of the supporters/standing sections as needed.


Scalper problem is not a problem in the eyes of MLSE. Tickets sold... problem solved for them. Now if the people buying those tickets end up in a standing section that they didn't want maybe they will stop buying them.

This. That solution is so mind-blowingly easy that it's criminal that they haven't done anything about it.

As for scalpers, don't hold your breath. I wouldn't be surprised if MLSE, besides not caring, was actually working with the scalpers much like the Chicago Cubs.

[spark]

Guys I think one way to go about this is keep making noise with reps or whoever is your contact at MLSE. From what I gather, these steps have been made this season because they received a lot of complaints about standing during the game. We have to be heard that there are just as many people who want to be able to support TFC in this manner.

Oh and talking about "sitting is for baseball" they were starting the wave in 104 Saturday. :out:

[MrHawk]

I'm sorry to say this........but is there something that wrong with just sitting down to enjoy a footy match?

[Sonny Cheeba]

I'm sorry to say this........but is there something that wrong with just sitting down to enjoy a footy match?

yeah you're not a supporter and don't belong anywhere near BMO.

[pubboy]

I'm sorry to say this........but is there something that wrong with just sitting down to enjoy a footy match?

Yes - watching football is about passion, and getting involved. Chanting, singing, cheering, jumping etc etc. Most fans i know (inlcuding my 13 month old daughter and 64 year old dad) want to stand during the game. In Coventry, there was always one stand which all the corporates and people who wanted to sit were located. The rest of the ground, everyone stood and cheered. Much better atmosphere, and avoided the security hassles that are going on with TFC at the moment.

:scarf::flare::drum::scarf:

[Sonny Cheeba]

more elitist supporters crap. if people want to sit, they should be able to sit. if you're in a section that isn't a "standing section". don't complain when people like to sit and enjoy themseleves.

we have enough problems getting chants going in the sections that do stand. oh and you mentioned jumping? how many people jump that stand now? 10%?

we got more things to work on. getting everyone who wants to jump and sing and whatnot into the same section... and so on.

[spark]

I'm sorry to say this........but is there something that wrong with just sitting down to enjoy a footy match?

Not at all, I do it at home all the time.

[pubboy]

more elitist supporters crap. if people want to sit, they should be able to sit. if you're in a section that isn't a "standing section". don't complain when people like to sit and enjoy themseleves.

we have enough problems getting chants going in the sections that do stand. oh and you mentioned jumping? how many people jump that stand now? 10%?

we got more things to work on. getting everyone who wants to jump and sing and whatnot into the same section... and so on.

elitist ? I have no idea what you're on about. In case you missed it, i was highlighting a situation where one stand was committed to sitting, and the rest there was more leniency for people to stand. I dont complain when people sit, and i dont think anyone really does. It's usually the other way around.

[MrHawk]

I guess if I sit down, I'm not as hardcore as you fine folk.

I feel sad now.

[JDG]

I'm sorry to say this........but is there something that wrong with just sitting down to enjoy a footy match?

Nothing wrong with sitting or standing - it's only a problem when the groups are forced to endure eachother in the same sections.


yeah you're not a supporter and don't belong anywhere near BMO.


That's not it at all. Some want to stand, and can't.
This isn't the fault of those that want to sit, but it turns out to be a problem for both groups because they've been sold tickets together in the same section.
Seattle had the benefit of our miserable experience with this issue, and they made you answer a series of questions about how you want to experience the game when you ordered tickets. The result is a more cohesive effort for the vocal supporters, and fewer complaints from those that want to take in the game from the comfort of their seats.
MLSE had no idea that this was going to be a problem until it was too late. We're suffering because the team was well supported from the beginning.
If support had grown gradually, and we only sold a percentage of available seats each game, like every other MLS team, this wouldn't be an issue.

[JDG]

I guess if I sit down, I'm not as hardcore as you fine folk.

I feel sad now.

Stop trying to instigate an argument please. This is not about who's a better supporter.

[Sonny Cheeba]

re: pubboy,....well you said it's what football is about and basically highlighted how people should support a team at a game and that even your daughter and dad know that.

i see that as kind of elitist. if you didn't mean it that way, then i read it out of context.

i think the big issue here is the security issue that was stated earlier.

if you look at most of the stadiums in the EPL and SPL, maybe one stand is now committed to standing and the rest sit. same shit happens over there too.

it was a different story in the past when there was terraces. you may not personally complain about people sitting, but others do. all the time. if someone does complain about another person standing in their way, they have every right to, unless they're in a section that standing is accepted. but even if nobody complains, security still have to enforce their rules in the sitting sections, perhaps people don't feel comfortable complaining, i don't know.

the heavy handed security bothers me. but i also noticed some not so nice reactions to security on saturday when someone was asked politely to leave the section they didn't belong in.

[Sonny Cheeba]

Stop trying to instigate an argument please. This is not about who's a better supporter.

this thread may not be about that. but i see it happening.... i mean chants like west side stand up?

that's basically saying "you're not doing your job"

anyway. i think security can be heavy handed, but us supporters aren't always the most cooperative.

what's the story with CCTV? is it happening yet?

[Walnut]

When I first posted on the issue of security ejections and standing in 105 a while ago, I was told to stop whining and to basically shut-up, because I was not a supporter.

[Sonny Cheeba]

When I first posted on the issue of security ejections and standing in 105 a while ago, I was told to stop whining and to basically shut-up, because I was not a supporter.

not a supporter or not in a supporter section. i'm guessing you meant the latter.

it's not nice for them to say that, but they can say that. if they tell you to sit and you stand and complain, you're defying their rules and authority to enforce them.


still dickish on their part, but i guess they want to be taken seriously or some shit.

[MrHawk]

I think we're all for the same idea here.

A great atmosphere at BMO, and the hopes that Toronto has a winning football team.

Some may just want to sit in certain areas to enjoy the match, and I personally think there is nothing wrong with that idea. They paid money (either more or less than you did) to support the same team. IF you think that is a problem, well far be it from me to change your ideas :)

[C.Ronaldo]

If you have a stadium full of sitters vs one full of standers, tell me which one is more exciting.

We cant get away with sitting and enjoying a beautiful game of footy, b/c guess what. Its not that beautiful.

The field sucks, the players are not consistent, and the goals are rarely spectacular. (minus guevera's beauty)

This is the MLS not EPL. We dont need to do what they do. We can'y even compare ourselves to EPL.

And if your going to compare, look down at the southern hemisphere for amazing fan support, where they mostly stand.


I agree there needs to be sections for both, but clearly there are WAY too many sitting seats vs standing areas. And this issue needs to be rectified.

[Sonny Cheeba]

look south..... terraces buddy,.... terraces. we don't have those and never will. people like to sit in seats when they see them.

kinda like how i like to pee whenever i see a nice fir tree.

[Walnut]

not a supporter or not in a supporter section. i'm guessing you meant the latter.

it's not nice for them to say that, but they can say that. if they tell you to sit and you stand and complain, you're defying their rules and authority to enforce them.


still dickish on their part, but i guess they want to be taken seriously or some shit.

I emailed my ticket rep when this first started flaring up - after two and a bit full seasons of being left alone.

I suggested that section 104 should be all standing, and the back of 105 should be standing. A mirror of 110 / 111. This would allow some moving of STHs around, to accommodate their desire to either sit or stand. Naturally, the ticket rep did not reply to this suggestion, beyond the standard copy and paste reply.

The most disturbing element of this entire episode(s), is the enthusiasm the BMO security have for the task -- they patrol 104 / 105 like prison guards.

[Commie Red]

the protest area is the beer garden.

Section 120 was the first to deal with crap and a few of us have gather in the beer tent.

Send a formal letter to your rep.

Hopefully as one, RPB can get something done for us paying fans who actually make the game exciting.

I think Jack is going to bring this up with an official eventually.

and as many of us have already said. F*** MLSE!

By all means stand in the beer garden to protest -- but please don't buy their over-priced beer! If every supporter told to sit-down goes to the garden and buys a beer, it will only encourage MLSE in their short-sighted drive to cleanse BMO of all atmosphere (and will guarantee the beer gardens longevity).

[C.Ronaldo]

Forgot to mention, part of my personal protest is to not buy ANYTHING at BMO field.


And terraces is what we should have instead of the beer tent and those gay patio tables for the rich folk behind the net

[Oblio2]

more elitist supporters crap. if people want to sit, they should be able to sit. if you're in a section that isn't a "standing section". don't complain when people like to sit and enjoy themseleves.

we have enough problems getting chants going in the sections that do stand. oh and you mentioned jumping? how many people jump that stand now? 10%?

we got more things to work on. getting everyone who wants to jump and sing and whatnot into the same section... and so on.

I agree

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I'm sorry to say this........but is there something that wrong with just sitting down to enjoy a footy match?


No, but the supporters sections are for standing, there are plenty of other areas for sitting..fans coming into the supporters area for the first time need to know they will likely have to stand, and most are surprised by this, but not many new fans complain in 114 when they look around and see everyone else doing it!! some actually said they enjoy standing!!

[Steve]

If you have a stadium full of sitters vs one full of standers, tell me which one is more exciting.

We cant get away with sitting and enjoying a beautiful game of footy, b/c guess what. Its not that beautiful.

The field sucks, the players are not consistent, and the goals are rarely spectacular. (minus guevera's beauty)

This is the MLS not EPL. We dont need to do what they do. We can'y even compare ourselves to EPL.

And if your going to compare, look down at the southern hemisphere for amazing fan support, where they mostly stand.


I agree there needs to be sections for both, but clearly there are WAY too many sitting seats vs standing areas. And this issue needs to be rectified.

Well, it's nice to hear that you don't actually care about watching the game. Have fun in your party sections, drinking to avoid watching the ugly football, and keep right on thinking you're the only thing worth seeing at BMO.

I mean, personally, I enjoy the supporters' sections. I enjoy feeling like I'm part of the outcome as much as a spectator. But I also enjoy watching the game from a vantage point that allows me to analyse the structure and flow of the game. My season seats this year fall into the later catagory. Frankly, I'm getting sick of people denegrating fans that choose to watch them game. I'm sorry, but how exactly are you a better fan than I am? You think TFC and MLS is trash, that it isn't worth watching, and you'd rather drink and jump around while ignoring what you feel is a terrible product.



No, but the supporters sections are for standing, there are plenty of other areas for sitting..fans coming into the supporters area for the first time need to know they will likely have to stand, and most are surprised by this, but not many new fans complain in 114 when they look around and see everyone else doing it!! some actually said they enjoy standing!!

Right, but this thread was started because someone was asked to sit, in a non-supporters' section. In fact, they were sitting in one of thse "areas for sitting", so what does this have to do with anything?

[C.Ronaldo]

When did I say its trash?
i said the field is trash.

I don't think the game it trash, but its far from the beautiful game that soccer can be.

This is why TV ratings are terrible, but the product is not very good and you cant feel the atmosphere on TV

I watch it and support it in hopes that one day, it will be the beautiful game and at least compete with some of the better leagues

I've been a ticket holder since August 2006, that means I'm one of the first 3000 to buy tickets.
So, yes I do consider my self a big supporter.

[Sonny Cheeba]

"a stadium full of sitters vs a stadium full of standers".....

hmmm take BMO as is and make everyone stand. no difference in "excitement".

[brad]

I've said my piece on the issue at hand in other threads, so the only thing I will add is this.

It is killing the atmosphere.

The support out of 104/105 has been very good for a non-supporters section. Lots of noise, lots singing, lots of hassling the opposition and supporting our boys, it had been getting better and better, up until the Chicago game. I left in disgust, so I have no idea how that game panned out, but for the NE game on the weekend you could hear a pin drop - when the NE supporters weren't singing.

At one point in the second half, one of the NE supporters (who I would put at around 60 or so, not some young punk trying to start trouble) looked over at us in disgust and yelled

"What's wrong with you people, get up and support your team"

at which point the security guard started laughing and said "no no, don't say that, they aren't allowed to"...

[Sonny Cheeba]

^that is kinda funny....

[brad]

^that is kinda funny....

Until you realize that is how visiting supporters are going to view BMO from now on in.

[Sonny Cheeba]

i don't care about what visiting supporters think. but i do think that if they're standing in 104 dishing it out to you, you should be able to stand up too.

[C.Ronaldo]

"no no, don't say that, they aren't allowed to"

you reading this shit MLSE?

Whats gonna happen to your "expansion plans" when the word of mouth quickly becomes, "unless you can get supporters sections, don't buy it, its boring"

[Walnut]

I've said my piece on the issue at hand in other threads, so the only thing I will add is this.

It is killing the atmosphere.

The support out of 104/105 has been very good for a non-supporters section. Lots of noise, lots singing, lots of hassling the opposition and supporting our boys, it had been getting better and better, up until the Chicago game. I left in disgust, so I have no idea how that game panned out, but for the NE game on the weekend you could hear a pin drop - when the NE supporters weren't singing.

At one point in the second half, one of the NE supporters (who I would put at around 60 or so, not some young punk trying to start trouble) looked over at us in disgust and yelled

"What's wrong with you people, get up and support your team"

at which point the security guard started laughing and said "no no, don't say that, they aren't allowed to"...

It is a disgrace Brad -- 104 / 105 was alright. But now, it is a gutless and sanitized version. You are quite right, you could hear a pin drop. The security were patrolling like prison guards, and there was zero atmosphere.

Such a shame.

[fetajr]

I know in Chile and Argentina, the seats/benches/concrete stairs in the supporter sections behind the nets are usually not numbered and one only needs a 'galaria' general admission ticket to get in there. Its a first come first stand/sit area

If BMO field did this with the entire south end supporter section, it would be absolute chaos and fucking awesome. One thing for sure is that it would weed out the soccer moms and familys from that area and populate it with fans ready to stand/jump/sing/drink/and barf. Supporters scattered throughout the stadium would trade their random section season ticket for a GA Supporter section season ticket...i know i would, i'm in S220 and currently stand in the beer tent full-time

in the end, this format will pave the way for chanting in sync, loud as fuck, and the synchronized jumping will look insane

[McHaggis]

If BMO field did this with the entire south end supporter section, it would be absolute chaos and fucking awesome. One thing for sure is that it would weed out the soccer moms and familys from that area and populate it with fans ready to stand/jump/sing/drink/and barf. Supporters scattered throughout the stadium would trade their random section season ticket for a GA Supporter section season ticket...i know i would, i'm in S220 and currently stand in the beer tent full-time



Right on! Who wants families and older soccer fans here anyway! A big 'ole terrace where people are packed like sardines...we could have fights, trampling, flares, piss on the guy in front of you cause it's too packed to go the john...possibilities are endless!:rolleyes:

[dantdot]

Right on! Who wants families and older soccer fans here anyway! A big 'ole terrace where people are packed like sardines...we could have fights, trampling, flares, piss on the guy in front of you cause it's too packed to go the john...possibilities are endless!:rolleyes:

Sounds like heaven.

[Steve]

"no no, don't say that, they aren't allowed to"

you reading this shit MLSE?

Whats gonna happen to your "expansion plans" when the word of mouth quickly becomes, "unless you can get supporters sections, don't buy it, its boring"

You're just proving what I said in my last post. Obviously you find soccer boring. That's great for you. Fortunately for soccer in North America, there are those who actually enjoy, I don't know, taking in a live game? I get that you like to stand an jump, all the power to you. I do to, but I also like sitting down in my seats in 223 and watching the game develop. It's exciting for me not for the show the south end puts on (though I do appreciate it, don't get me wrong) but for the play that's happening on the pitch.


Right on! Who wants families and older soccer fans here anyway! A big 'ole terrace where people are packed like sardines...we could have fights, trampling, flares, piss on the guy in front of you cause it's too packed to go the john...possibilities are endless!:rolleyes:

Exactly! I mean, I agree, other MLS teams are being stupid by essentially limiting all marketing to "soccer moms" and families. But don't think you can go too far the other way either. I enjoy the balance of BMO. I like that there are people who enjoy sitting and watching the game, and I like that we have people making flags, and beating drums. Why can't we accept that both ways of supporting the team are necessary, and move on?

[fetajr]

Right on! Who wants families and older soccer fans here anyway! A big 'ole terrace where people are packed like sardines...we could have fights, trampling, flares, piss on the guy in front of you cause it's too packed to go the john...possibilities are endless!:rolleyes:

hahaha..don't forget if the economy gets worse, it'll be a place where people will get robbed by crazier hooligans

but it might be the easiest way to get all supporters to unite on one end, chanting and jumping together

[EENIE MAN]

Guys I think one way to go about this is keep making noise with reps or whoever is your contact at MLSE. From what I gather, these steps have been made this season because they received a lot of complaints about standing during the game. We have to be heard that there are just as many people who want to be able to support TFC in this manner.

Oh and talking about "sitting is for baseball" they were starting the wave in 104 Saturday. :out:

the wave? the fucking wave??? what a joke. I saw it start , then burried my face in my hands for a sec. ....looked up and THANK GOD it stopped. then they tried again , FUCK! people, please get a chant book , make a flag or somthing , but for the love of TFC please don't do that stupid shit EVER!
cheers.

[EENIE MAN]

ps

can anyone get shirts saying

SITTING IS FOR BASEBALL?


I was thinking:

STAND UP AND CHEER
OR SIT DOWN AND
S T F U

[C.Ronaldo]

[QUOTE=Steve;533707]You're just proving what I said in my last post. Obviously you find soccer boring. That's great for you. Fortunately for soccer in North America, there are those who actually enjoy, I don't know, taking in a live game? I get that you like to stand an jump, all the power to you. I do to, but I also like sitting down in my seats in 223 and watching the game develop. It's exciting for me not for the show the south end puts on (though I do appreciate it, don't get me wrong) but for the play that's happening on the pitch.


Do you think you some kind of mind reader?

I meant that is what people will be saying, not necessarily me.


I enjoy both atmosphere and the game.

But the game simply inst good enough to sell solely on game quality nor are there enough fans in Toronto to appreciate it like we would.


However, upper deck makes perfect sense to soak up a game, but in row 2 not so much.

[THA BUTCHA]

to all the people complianing about not being able to stand.

instead of coming here and whining why dont you be more proactive.

some tips:

Make a point of introducing yourself to others. Get to know the fellow season seat holders around you. Ask their name ask them how their doing. Be friendly everyone around you. Remember that they all love TFC as much as you. After everyone starts to feel comfortable with each other you can start sharing emails and then hangout pre and post game. Maybe organise an away game pub night.


Talk tactics with people dont just watch the game. I enjoy talking TFC just as much as watching it.


Start small and then everyone else does the same eventually people will feel more comfortable joining along with the stupid funny chants that may start up. (they are the best for breaking the ice)

I have a friend that has made it an artform ;)

eventually you and your NEW FRIENDS will be creating banners, Chants, and will more than happy to stand with you in your section

eventually TFC FO will notice that the VAST MAJORITY of your section chooses to stand. and thats when this problem some of you guys have will go away.

It worked for us in 110

[Walnut]

to all the people complianing about not being able to stand.

instead of coming here and whining why dont you be more proactive.

some tips:

Make a point of introducing yourself to others. Get to know the fellow season seat holders around you. Ask their name ask them how their doing. Be friendly everyone around you. Remember that they all love TFC as much as you. After everyone starts to feel comfortable with each other you can start sharing emails and then hangout pre and post game. Maybe organise an away game pub night.


Talk tactics with people dont just watch the game. I enjoy talking TFC just as much as watching it.


Start small and then everyone else does the same eventually people will feel more comfortable joining along with the stupid funny chants that may start up. (they are the best for breaking the ice)

I have a friend that has made it an artform ;)

eventually you and your NEW FRIENDS will be creating banners, Chants, and will more than happy to stand with you in your section

eventually TFC FO will notice that the VAST MAJORITY of your section chooses to stand. and thats when this problem some of you guys have will go away.

It worked for us in 110

If only it were that simple...

The security at BMO are determined to prevent anything from becoming organized by slinging out anyone who appear to be coordinating a group effort.

Your idea is nice regarding the banners - but a guy was thrown out a couple of games ago for having a Honduran flag, so I doubt very much the banners would be tolerated.

[PRB]

I prefer to stand, but I'm young and can do it but those who wish to sit down are not less of a fan than anyone who stands. The idea of that being the case is absolutely nonsense. I know people who have been going to football for 60+ years who can no longer stand for the full 90 minutes but enjoy going to the games none-the-less because they can still sit and enjoy.

Ideally the team would arrange sections for standing only and non sitting and enforce it. If I'm in a sitting section I'll gladly sit and enjoy the game the same. After all you go to watch the game first and foremost. If you don't and prefer to go, stand and drink beer come what may on the field you may as well just go to the pub!!

In an ideal world they would still have terracing in certain sections of grounds. The idea that Hillsborough would happen again doesn't stand up. Hillsborough happened because the authorities and security were not prepared and didn't understand what could happen. There were hundreds of thousands of games in packed terraces that passed off fine. I would like to see terracing with more regulated numbers within them. After all, people still stand at concerts and in German football and hockey for that matter they still have standing sections.

[Walnut]

[QUOTE=PRB;534233If I'm in a sitting section I'll gladly sit and enjoy the game the same. After all you go to watch the game first and foremost. If you don't and prefer to go, stand and drink beer come what may on the field you may as well just go to the pub!![/QUOTE]

Where does the idea that standing and actually watching / enjoying the game are not mutually compatible? If I stand, does that mean that I am a drunken lout who has no interest in the game...?

[PRB]

No I wasn't directing that to you, it was in general. I stand and I drink too, for me it's the best way to enjoy any sports event.

[celt-nick]

Has anyone heard anything official about if the FO plans to help relocate people to the appropriate sections next year (other than how they've been doing it)? Both sitting and standing are fine, as long as your doing it in the right spot. If a complete overhaul and relocation of supporters who want to stand could happen, so many people would be happy....standers, sitters, even security I'm sure.

[RedMAN127]

If the entire stadium was a "supporter section" it would dilute the effect that a consolidated effort creates ... I have been to EPL games (Old Trafford) people sit, watch the play, while chanting, cursing out players and refs and such ... jumping is for skippers and does not make for a "better" supporter.

Buy a ticket in the southend, ebay, kijiji, SSH ticket exchange, scalpers, boards, and you will have no problems with standing, jumping, etc., ... sitting elsewhere and complaing is getting tiresome.

[nfitz]

The problem with the scalper issue is that they are in bed with MLSE. The team doesn't care and that's been made abundantly clear to us.I hadn't realized Paul was bent. That's a shame - though I guess we shouldn't be surprised given past goings on at MLSE.

[EENIE MAN]

Has anyone heard anything official about if the FO plans to help relocate people to the appropriate sections next year (other than how they've been doing it)? Both sitting and standing are fine, as long as your doing it in the right spot. If a complete overhaul and relocation of supporters who want to stand could happen, so many people would be happy....standers, sitters, even security I'm sure.


Nothing total official yet , but my tix rep has me on a list to move to 119 from 120. Unless they change my sect. to a standing sect.

[Fiin]

After 3 years this debate never fails to bring out the worst in people.

[Jack]

I hadn't realized Paul was bent. That's a shame - though I guess we shouldn't be surprised given past goings on at MLSE.
I don't think he is.

I think they turn a blind eye to the scalpers. My impression is that MLSE likes having scalpers around as it's a sign of their success. I don't think for a second that if they could figure out how to make some money off the scalpers, they wouldn't. Internal scalping was a bit of an issue with this company not too long ago, wasn't it?

Anyway, that's an issue for another thread, I suppose.

Just to let the people who have PMd me know, I am keeping track of you, but I have been insanely busy at work and will likely continue like this for at least another week or two until things calm down.

[Fiin]

I don't think he is.

I think they turn a blind eye to the scalpers. My impression is that MLSE likes having scalpers around as it's a sign of their success. I don't think for a second that if they could figure out how to make some money off the scalpers, they wouldn't. Internal scalping was a bit of an issue with this company not too long ago, wasn't it?

Anyway, that's an issue for another thread, I suppose.

Just to let the people who have PMd me know, I am keeping track of you, but I have been insanely busy at work and will likely continue like this for at least another week or two until things calm down.

They keep scalpers around because its paid tickets. Remember, even if you see 800 empty scalper seats, MLSE still got their money. Every franchise is the same that way, look at the new Yankee Stadium.

[Jack]

They keep scalpers around because its paid tickets. Remember, even if you see 800 empty scalper seats, MLSE still got their money. Every franchise is the same that way, look at the new Yankee Stadium.
I know.

The thing is, they could have those tickets paid for by supporters.

I've got a nice long list for them. ;)

[Sally Mack]

They keep scalpers around because its paid tickets. Remember, even if you see 800 empty scalper seats, MLSE still got their money. Every franchise is the same that way, look at the new Yankee Stadium.
It works both ways though... would you rather have 800 empty seats that don't buy anything, or 800 seats full of fans paying $13 bucks a beer, $5 for a slice of pizza, and $20 for a scarf?

[Fiin]

It works both ways though... would you rather have 800 empty seats that don't buy anything, or 800 seats full of fans paying $13 bucks a beer, $5 for a slice of pizza, and $20 for a scarf?

Oh I totally agree bro.. I didnt say it was great logic, its just their logic :P

[Fiin]

I know.

The thing is, they could have those tickets paid for by supporters.

I've got a nice long list for them. ;)

QFT eh...

[Steve]

It works both ways though... would you rather have 800 empty seats that don't buy anything, or 800 seats full of fans paying $13 bucks a beer, $5 for a slice of pizza, and $20 for a scarf?

It isn't just about the paid tickets for MLSE. Scalpers play an important role for them. They ensure that, if one is sufficiently motivated, one can get tickets to the game. That's crucial when you're sold out every game but still want to build your fan base. Even if people can't go to games, many know they the option is open to them if they want to deal with the scalpers.

Now, I'm not defending scalpers, and personally I would rather all of their seats go to supporters so we don't have all those empty seats, but there are reason's beyond "because they've paid" that MLSE isn't motivated to do anything about them.

[sweetlemon69]

I have seasons in 110 and I sit for the games, and would rather sit. I'm as much a fan as anyone here (and probably a better player too). Buy tickets in standing areas, not everyone wants to stand. Seriously, this has got to stop, or we're going to have a civil war vs people who want to sit, vs people who want to stand.

Deal with it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I don't need no civil wareeor. Oh. OH. oh-oh-oh.

[C.Ronaldo]

(and probably a better player too)???????



what the heck does being a better player have to do with anything at all?

[Walnut]

I have seasons in 110 and I sit for the games, and would rather sit. I'm as much a fan as anyone here (and probably a better player too). Buy tickets in standing areas, not everyone wants to stand. Seriously, this has got to stop, or we're going to have a civil war vs people who want to sit, vs people who want to stand.

Deal with it.

Adding more standing section for those who want to stand would make more sense -- than ejecting fans whose only crime is enthusiastically supporting their club.

I agree, that there has to be a balance -- and I do not think anyone who wants to sit should be forced to stand. However, opening more standing sections - I would think - has to be preferable to the club declaring war on their own fans.

[C.Ronaldo]

^ agreed.

There most definaltey is a lack of balance.



Also let us remind folks, that we are not necesarily asking for a full blown supporters section with drums and flags

Just a section where I can stand, sing, and occasionally swear at the ref.

Supporters light would suit us just fine (which is what these sections were before the crackdown)

[fetajr]

General admission supporter section is the solution!..current season ticket holders might object, but the rest of us scattered all over the place and even those on the waiting list would be all over that

V9AK64Q0Ykg

[Toronto Ruffrider]

General admission supporter section is the solution!..current season ticket holders might object, but the rest of us scattered all over the place and even those on the waiting list would be all over that

FWIW, Montreal's supporters section is general admission. This is one area where the Impact FO got it right.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I have seasons in 110 and I sit for the games, and would rather sit. I'm as much a fan as anyone here (and probably a better player too). Buy tickets in standing areas, not everyone wants to stand. Seriously, this has got to stop, or we're going to have a civil war vs people who want to sit, vs people who want to stand.

Deal with it.

Section 110 is a good example of a model for supporter-section growth. Put supporters up top and casuals at the bottom. It's not rocket science, and both parties gain something from this. A person standing in row 31 won't block the view of a person sitting in row 14.

[T-Bird]

I don't have seasons yet and was given the option to purchase a seat for this season but that section happens to be no standing so I didn't buy them. Techno is in a no standing section and we both prefer to stand so we go to a place where we can. It sucks that we can't go to his regular seats because they have a great view but by not going there everyone wins. We can stand and not piss off security or those around us.

I agree that there should definately be more standing sections but the majority of people who go to games don't want to stand and generally, the powers that be are going to go with what the majority wants. So I guess you just have to be creative and sometimes a little sneaky to get the most out of you game day experience.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I agree that there should definately be more standing sections but the majority of people who go to games don't want to stand and generally, the powers that be are going to go with what the majority wants. So I guess you just have to be creative and sometimes a little sneaky to get the most out of you game day experience.

There are solutions to just about every problem, this one included. Even if only 10% of patrons prefer to stand, allow those patrons to move to the last few rows of a section.

[Hooligan69]

Glad to be standing at the very top of 110. Everyone around you is standing and there is nobody behind you wishing for you to sit down. The bugs are a nuisance though.

[C.Ronaldo]

^ people got creative and they put the patio tables at the beer tent, then they put those "BMO FANS" in the supporters section by the railing.

and i bet very very soon, they will start strictly enforcing what section your in by checking your ticket

[cmonyoureds]

I have seasons in 110 and I sit for the games, and would rather sit. I'm as much a fan as anyone here (and probably a better player too). Buy tickets in standing areas, not everyone wants to stand. Seriously, this has got to stop, or we're going to have a civil war vs people who want to sit, vs people who want to stand.

Deal with it.

Ummm seriously................when I had my chance to buy tix there were no "standing" seats left. I was also told - you'll be fine as long as no one complains............well guess what, no one complained and I was still told to sit.

And I'm a better player than you, guaranteed. Deal with it......

[fetajr]

fuck, this sounds like more rebel fans coming down and filling up the beer patio... we'll need to start wearing high heels and platform shoes just to be able to sneak a peak at the game

[D.O.W. Mark]

I have seasons in 110 and I sit for the games, and would rather sit ... Buy tickets in standing areas, not everyone wants to stand.

I'm figuring you're somewhere in the first couple of rows of 110, where everyone is still sits for most of the game. From row 11 back we're pretty much a standing only section, and to be perfectly honest I'd love to see all of 110 up and standing for the whole game. There's enough people who'd kill to get into 110 and stand and stomp and chant and have a blast co-ordinating with 111 and 112, maybe the sitters can move over one to 109 and let 110 get on with making some noise!

Personally, I have no problem with people wanting to sit to watch the game, but there are plenty of seats elsewhere in the stadium for that, and I don't think it's wrong to want our whole section boiling with energy. To me, clumps of sitters looks like dead patches of lawn in an otherwise vibrant garden, know what I mean?

East Side Stand UP!

[Fort York Redcoat]

Ummm seriously................when I had my chance to buy tix there were no "standing" seats left. I was also told - you'll be fine as long as no one complains............well guess what, no one complained and I was still told to sit.

And I'm a better player than you, guaranteed. Deal with it......


:lol: I agree but I'm probably not as good a player as either of you so, obviously, no gaurantees.

[T-Bird]

^ people got creative and they put the patio tables at the beer tent, then they put those "BMO FANS" in the supporters section by the railing.

and i bet very very soon, they will start strictly enforcing what section your in by checking your ticket

Get my ticket checked almost every time

[C.Ronaldo]

^ you can just say I know where Im going

And they wont check.

[brad]

^ you can just say I know where Im going

And they wont check.

Last game that didn't pass, they insisted on checking my ticket. Like anyone would want to sneak into 105...

[T-Bird]

^ you can just say I know where Im going

And they wont check.

I often find that by having it in your hand they won't check but if I have it in my pocket they always ask

[C.Ronaldo]

the crackdown begins

[Sparta]

to all the people complianing about not being able to stand.

instead of coming here and whining why dont you be more proactive.

some tips:

Make a point of introducing yourself to others. Get to know the fellow season seat holders around you. Ask their name ask them how their doing. Be friendly everyone around you. Remember that they all love TFC as much as you. After everyone starts to feel comfortable with each other you can start sharing emails and then hangout pre and post game. Maybe organise an away game pub night.


Talk tactics with people dont just watch the game. I enjoy talking TFC just as much as watching it.


Start small and then everyone else does the same eventually people will feel more comfortable joining along with the stupid funny chants that may start up. (they are the best for breaking the ice)

I have a friend that has made it an artform ;)

eventually you and your NEW FRIENDS will be creating banners, Chants, and will more than happy to stand with you in your section

eventually TFC FO will notice that the VAST MAJORITY of your section chooses to stand. and thats when this problem some of you guys have will go away.

It worked for us in 110

Nicely said -- so true

Remember 110 wasnt a supporter section til late last year

Why did it decome a supporter section??? We all came together, started talking to each other, started STANDING and waving flags and chanting

If the cut off in 110 is row 20, then everyone below should ALL stand -- whats the worse that they can do -- kick all lower 110 out??? I doubt it -- just a matter of time that lower will become supporters.

I have tickets in lower 110 that i use for family -- i guess i can sit down there one game and stand -- BUT I WILL NEED SUPPORT OF ALL TO STAND -- as i dont want to be the only one getting kicked out -- they will kick out 1 but not 500. Also we need to be loud and ignore them though.

[C.Ronaldo]

^ thanks, you sent us your sitters.

[Sparta]

no problem -- but actually its my bro and he normally stands -- its my wife and kid that are the problem -- lol

[rocker]

To me, clumps of sitters looks like dead patches of lawn in an otherwise vibrant garden, know what I mean?

Just because someone wants to sit doesn't mean it's a dead patch.
I sit and yell, heckle, occasionally sing a long. Sitting doesn't preclude anyone from doing any of those things.

But I'll play the metaphor game, as you do.. to me, having guys standing in front of me is like having moved into to a nice house in a decent neighbourhood a few years ago, and then some Hell's Angels move in next door. Would you enjoy that? Well, I guess if you're a member of the Hell's Angels, it's fine ;)

I'm actually glad my section costs as much as it does, because I know the standers are generally unwilling to spend that kind of money on TFC tickets ;)

But I can understand how sections that border on the supporters section can become controversial sections, and standers and sitters come into contact.

[Sparta]

Just because someone wants to sit doesn't mean it's a dead patch.
I sit and yell, heckle, occasionally sing a long. Sitting doesn't preclude anyone from doing any of those things.

But I'll play the metaphor game, as you do.. to me, having guys standing in front of me is like having moved into to a nice house in a decent neighbourhood a few years ago, and then some Hell's Angels move in next door. Would you enjoy that? Well, I guess if you're a member of the Hell's Angels, it's fine ;)

I'm actually glad my section costs as much as it does, because I know the standers are generally unwilling to spend that kind of money on TFC tickets ;)

But I can understand how sections that border on the supporters section can become controversial sections, and standers and sitters come into contact.

Thats a fair statement

I guess it was a mistake for mlse to make only have the section supporter -- should have made the whole section to eliminate controversy