DeRo: "This turf's got to go!. I'm sick of it..."

[sidney]

10 seconds ago DeRo said this during the CBC post-game interview:

"This turf's got to go!. I'm sick of it. It's killing our game!"

what to you think MoJo/MLSE/RPB'ers?

[twistedchinaman]

Have to +1 that big time

[boban]

In the post game interview on CBC Dwayne was asked about 5 game sin 2 weeks and whether that had a factor in the loss.
he mentioned guys were tiring but that the turf has to g as it is killing 'our
game'.

I have to agree on this game. The quality of play just was brutal, esp. in the 1st half. Here's to hoping we see real grass sooner rather than later.

[edmundo]

dero has officially solidified his bad mon status, my only question now is does the team give him shit for saying this, but in all honesty the team looked a step slow today which could be attributed to the turf

[profit89]

That game was pretty ugly.

[kdzb]

The turf is only one problem that doesn't have a solution for the near future.
MO's inability to sign proven strikers who make real contact with the ball is another problem that can be fixed and it should be asap.

[dantdot]

Props for speaking out, everyone knows it. Need to put pressure to change it asap.

[AdamZ]

yep. It's a major, major problem.

[troy1982]

I agree with him 100% the ball is too fast and bounces way to high.

[Redcoe15]

RIGHT ON, DERO! YOU TELL 'EM! THAT TURF HAS BEEN OUR ACHILLES HEEL SINCE DAY ONE! A SOCCER SPECIFIC STADIUM SHOULD NOT BE HAVING THAT GODDAMN PLASTIC SHIT TO PLAY ON! ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION MLSE? CITY OF TORONTO? DWAYNE DEROSARIO WANTED TO COME HERE, AND THIS IS HOW YOU REPAY HIM?

GET RID OF THAT SHIT, NOW!!!!!
:rant:

[Mojo]

MGMT is trying to get grass in, but the stadium isn't owned by them so they can't do what they want. They need to get approval from the city first, which I'm pretty sure they've been working on for a while.

[Shway]

MGMT is trying to get grass in, but the stadium isn't owned by them so they can't do what they want. They need to get approval from the city first, which I'm pretty sure they've been working on for a while.

at first i was like what does MGMT have to do with anything, (there artist),

but this is very true, city is holding up the process

[Davenport]

There's no question that it has to become a grass pitch ASAP.
Montreal and Ottawa both have beautiful grass surfaces and it's a colder climate.
If the city is worried about renting a pitch out all year, build another one FFS. It's not like MLSE don't have any money and could afford to help out.....they're filthy with it and have way too much considering the quality of their teams.

[BRed]

Edit: I believe Dero's statement was.. ""This turf's and Barrett got to go!. I'm sick of it. It's killing our game!"

[Inswingingwingman]

HOLY CRAP SHOULD I TYPE IN BIG LETTERS AND SWEAR.

What's wrong.

1. We'd be #1 if we had grass.
2. We'd be #1 if we had strikers.
3. We'd be #1 if Velez didn't panic and shoot the ball into the stands everytime it hits his foot.
4. We'd be #1 if Carver,..no wait that happened.
5. We'd be #1 if Mo would get a DP.
6. We'd be #1 if the ref's didn't suck.
7. We'd be #1 if Amando didn't dick about with the ball for 2 minutes and then give it to the opposition.
8. We'd be #1 if we had fans where you could see them on TV.
9. We'd be #1 if we had TV for every game, HD TV.
10. We'd be #1 if you could have a piss at a game in less than 40 minutes.
11. We'd be #1 if you could get a beer in less than 40 minutes.
12. We'd be #1 if MLSE wasn't so cheap.
13. Weed be good, Probably have a law the commie Toronto city gov't passed that makes it illegal to use weed spray. Maybe we could play on a hemp surface, weed be good.
14. If if and ands were pots and pans we'd have lots of dishes.

Is that the reason that this discussion belongs in the complaint thread? Or news thread?

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHH

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I like Cummins' push to play more possession-oriented football, but honestly, how do you make crisp, tight passes on the ground when the ball keeps bouncing as if it's hitting speed bumps? It's no wonder why we can't tic-tac-toe our way to more than one goal per game at home this year.

[Shway]

There's no question that it has to become a grass pitch ASAP.
Montreal and Ottawa both have beautiful grass surfaces and it's a colder climate.
If the city is worried about renting a pitch out all year, build another one FFS. It's not like MLSE don't have any money and could afford to help out.....they're filthy with it and have way too much considering the quality of their teams.


By which pitch in montreal are you referring to, because Saputo stadium field is HORRENDUS

yes it is grass

But the field seems meant for golf use

[Redcoe15]

There's no question that it has to become a grass pitch ASAP.
Montreal and Ottawa (?) both have beautiful grass surfaces and it's a colder climate.
If the city is worried about renting a pitch out all year, build another one FFS. It's not like MLSE don't have any money and could afford to help out.....they're filthy with it and have way too much considering the quality of their teams.
I'm sorry, what stadium in Ottawa are you talking about???

[Inswingingwingman]

Otter wah? Grass? The lawn at Parliment Hill?

[Inklink]

Need a chant for grass at BMO next game! :)

[Davenport]

I'm sorry, what stadium in Ottawa are you talking about???
The home of Ottawa Fury......it's a beautiful grass surface.
BTW...Ottawa is the coldest capital city in the world.

[prizby]

here is the major problem. TFC DOES NOT OWN BMO FIELD, the City of Toronto own it

[LucaGol]

I like Cummins' push to play more possession-oriented football, but honestly, how do you make crisp, tight passes on the ground when the ball keeps bouncing as if it's hitting speed bumps? It's no wonder why we can't tic-tac-toe our way to more than one goal per game at home this year.

Agree 100%

It's pretty frustrating stuff to watch.

And the older the stuff gets, the worse it becomes.

Controlling a simple pass becomes a feat in and of itself.

[loconet]

I'm very glad DeRo told it like it is. That plastic is a joke.

I brought my dad to the game today. Our first time very close to the pitch.

"wow, how the fuck does anyone judge the bounce on that shit?"

It's horrendous. I don't care what anyone says, if you don't think it's bad then you haven't played enough in the real thing. It makes a difference and that's not counting what it must do to the legs.


here is the major problem. TFC DOES NOT OWN BMO FIELD, the City of Toronto own it

Thanks man, how did we ever miss that point!

[troy1982]

I am looking at the Revolution home game right now and there field turf is much better than ours. so is Seattle's. Our turf is similar to NYRB's but they will be out of giant stadium next year leaving us with the worst surface in MLS.

[Candu_88]

Field turf when wet does make the ball skid and yes the ball bounces too high making hoofs behind the defenders ineffective. When was the last time you saw a TFC player hit a low hard shot to take advantage of the turf? We seem to blast it or head it over the net consistently. The field turf was a major factor in all those missed heading chances today was it? Barrett only cramps up late in the game on the field turf does he?

My youth team gets to practice and play exhibitions on the new turf field in Niagara Falls. In terms of shooting, dribbling and passes to feet it way better than Wembley. When teaching technical skills with youth players we seem to get much better and more consistent results on the turf.

I really want to see BMO with grass but today's loss was nothing to do with the turf.

[troy1982]

Field turf when wet does make the ball skid and yes the ball bounces too high making hoofs behind the defenders ineffective. When was the last time you saw a TFC player hit a low hard shot to take advantage of the turf? We seem to blast it or head it over the net consistently. The field turf was a major factor in all those missed heading chances today was it? Barrett only cramps up late in the game on the field turf does he?

My youth team gets to practice and play exhibitions on the new turf field in Niagara Falls. In terms of shooting, dribbling and passes to feet it way better than Wembley. When teaching technical skills with youth players we seem to get much better and more consistent results on the turf.

I really want to see BMO with grass but today's loss was nothing to do with the turf.

I remember hearing that when the turf was installed it was installed incorrectly or something. When compared to the other turf surfaces in MLS ours seems to be the worst. I think they either need a re-installed surface at BMO with the latest technology or grass.

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

I got it here for all to see........... WE NEED GRASS !!!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnqnEdUuqM

[billyfly]

DeRo go and speak to Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone. He's holding it up.

[Kaz]

The Grass isn't MLSE or MoJo. It's the City of Toronto that doesn't see BMO as the Home Pitch of the TFC, but as a public use facility that is used in the winter. If we want a change, then bring 3,000 supporters to City Hall and get the city to pass a bill to change that.

[EAsoccer]

Chicago played on the same turf, scored two goals and moved the ball around decently. I agree we need grass but for Derosario to say it after the match, means he is implying it was the reason for the loss or performance. It's a poor excuse to be honest.

It's kind of sad that TFC who have trained on and play 1/2 their games on this field turf cant seem to use the turf to their advantage and get results against teams that are not used to it.

[billyfly]

^Correct but I still want grass.

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

Chicago played on the same turf, scored two goals and moved the ball around decently. I agree we need grass but for Derosario to say it after the match, means he is implying it was the reason for the loss or performance. It's a poor excuse to be honest.

It's kind of sad that TFC who have trained on and play 1/2 their games on this field turf cant seem to use the turf to their advantage and get results against teams that are not used to it.

No he was sayin playin so much on this shit Turf is killin them, have u played on turf ? well i have and it kills your body the longer you play on it

DeRo :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnqnEdUuqM

[wzhxvy]

First of all the fact that TFC does not own the stadium means didly...they dont own the stadium because they are capitalist greedy buggers who want it all done on someone else's nickel...so lets not make that as an excuse. If it was important enough they would give the city a deadline or they move. I mean the freaking Quebec Government is giving $25M to the the limpact...

And btw, the fact that we play it on this crap every week does not give us an advantage...because it wears us out and plays differently depending on the condition..so as the home player it wears you out game in game out. For the other guys, its one game...they play through it. So its part mental part real.

[EAsoccer]

No he was sayin playin so much on this shit Turf is killin them, have u played on turf ? well i have and it kills your body the longer you play on it

DeRo :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnqnEdUuqM

Yes. I have played on turf for 2 years, and still every once in a while get on turf to train & play. Havent had many if any injuries due to it and do not see what the problem with it is. Maybe BMO's turf is just bad. Or maybe it depends on different body types? who knows.

Derosario just started playing on it anyways it should be Brennan, Robinson or Wynne complaining.

My point is to comment on the turf after you just lost 2-0 and missed a bunch of chances to ice the game is a poor excuse for the performance. Dero signed the contract with Toronto knowing that BMO has bad turf, so complaining in season especially after a bad result at home is disrespecting the fans for your poor performance.

Bottom line, TFC/MLSE knows the turf is a problem and is working on grass for BMO. It's not going to happen overnight, be in for the next home game or even for a game this season/year. So he should stop complaining to the media and focus on your game. Btw, I think Derosario has been playing well this season with exception to today's game.

Reminds me of the Canadian NT complaining about turf and not wanting to play at BMO, to go and play at a worse field Saputo with grass flying all over the place and to lose to Honduras 2-1 after taking the lead.

Stop the excuses and do the talking on the pitch!

[nfitz]

I think I might have heard somewhere that MSLE doesn't actually own the stadium - and perhaps the city owns it ... not sure where I heard that ...

[edmundo]

Yes. I have played on turf for 2 years, and still every once in a while get on turf to train & play. Havent had many if any injuries due to it and do not see what the problem with it is. Maybe BMO's turf is just bad. Or maybe it depends on different body types? who knows.

Derosario just started playing on it anyways it should be Brennan, Robinson or Wynne complaining.

My point is to comment on the turf after you just lost 2-0 and missed a bunch of chances to ice the game is a poor excuse for the performance. Dero signed the contract with Toronto knowing that BMO has bad turf, so complaining in season especially after a bad result at home is disrespecting the fans for your poor performance.

Bottom line, TFC/MLSE knows the turf is a problem and is working on grass for BMO. It's not going to happen overnight, be in for the next home game or even for a game this season/year. So he should stop complaining to the media and focus on your game. Btw, I think Derosario has been playing well this season with exception to today's game.

Reminds me of the Canadian NT complaining about turf and not wanting to play at BMO, to go and play at a worse field Saputo with grass flying all over the place and to lose to Honduras 2-1 after taking the lead.

Stop the excuses and do the talking on the pitch!

as much as i hate agree with everything this guy just said, i fully agree with everything this guy just said...........

[K1nG]

"DeRo And The Fans Want Grass" themed banner?

Good job on that clip Real Deal.

[RedsYNWA]

as much as i hate agree with everything this guy just said, i fully agree with everything this guy just said...........

Ditto

[Pinkie]

My point is to comment on the turf after you just lost 2-0 and missed a bunch of chances to ice the game is a poor excuse for the performance. Dero signed the contract with Toronto knowing that BMO has bad turf, so complaining in season especially after a bad result at home is disrespecting the fans for your poor performance.

that was exactly what i was thinking when i first heard him complain...he knew what he was getting himself into to...and we've never hear him complain about it earlier, so to me it just seems that he's trying to make excuses for a poor performance by the team.

[TorCanSoc]

Keeps coming up, but the WCQ in Montreal was immediately following a massive dumping of rain. We and Montreal got record rain that year. The Impact played the night before on the field. When Canada played Honduras on the same field, it had no chance. It was a freak of nature that field being cut up like that.

I watched Montreal-Charleston yesterday on T.V. that pitch looked perfect.

If MLSE doesn't want grass, and DeRo keeps up those comments.... maybe he'll get turfed. We all want grass. Players, management, fans.... but economics, politics, and no one person taking the reigns on this one is going to put this on our frustration list for a while I think.

We all know the situation at large. I just hope the players with the stones to talk freely will be heard by MLSE.

[edmundo]

ya tbh the national team did complain alot about the turf, but in the end they probably played their best game at bmo and went on to some poor losses on grass

[NateDoGG]

the turf is a complete joke... and tfc will never get a world class quality player from europe without real grass....

[GeorgeB]

the turf is a complete joke... and tfc will never get a world class quality player from europe without real grass....red bulls got one without it and so did Seatle.$ talks.

[dantdot]

Dero's doing us a favour here, we should run with it instead of saying he's using it an excuse. It might have been out of frustration but it's the truth. You think all the other players disagree? Obviously not. I wouldn't want your own players unhappy. The animosity will grow if there isn't grass here by next season.

[Cambridge_Red]

that was exactly what i was thinking when i first heard him complain...he knew what he was getting himself into to...and we've never hear him complain about it earlier, so to me it just seems that he's trying to make excuses for a poor performance by the team.

Pretty sure he was opposed to it when playing for the CMNT..no quotes as I am too lazy to find any.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Got to back DeRo on this...the durface looks run down and shabby...but talk to the city of Toronto about the grass option..Do you think he now regrets coming to TFC?

[andyc]

There are a whole bunch of reasons why this won't happen - funding, community access, various levels of government investment and even MLSE. The issue is that someone needs to step up and make this reality as opposed to using these reasons to avoid the responsibility.

Dero is complaining after playing multiple games and training regularly on that crappy surface. The team was a step slower and looked weary especially in the first half. I've been on the field and it's far from ideal but even if it's not the reality, the fact that players believe it makes it true.

TFC - you have made a far greater return from this franchise than you ever imagined. Plus you have the Edu money and more to come from our recent draft picks.

Toronto - you have a mayor as a fan and a getting major unexpected income from the team as well as many happy citizens.

Federal & Provincal - I'm sure don't care.

Time to stop the negotiation poses and make this happen together. This is more important to fans than even a DP.

Step up boys and make a commitment. It's time to move the club to the next level and this is the only way.

Let's make grass at BMO a rallying call. Enough with the reasons why not and let's get someone to take ownership of making this happen. TFC I think you need to take ownership of this and force it to be reality this year. If you step back and let it happen you may save a few $s but you will loose a bunch of committed fans and as importantly potential players.

Please let's make it so!

[Mojo]

Next home game, everyone buy some of that "Patch Perfect" grass that grows on concrete and just hold it up during the national anthems :>

[Blazer]

Chicago didn’t seem to have an issue with the turf today?! Seems like a lame excuse for a group of guys who lack finishing touches. I don’t disagree that the turf sucks balls but it’s a disadvantage for both teams not just DeRo and TFC.

[tfc007]

MLSE has connections with huge sponsers,Why not put a proposal to these sponsers and build their own field,this way they can have grass,roof and proper amount of seating to ease the waiting list.Then MLSE can tell the city FUCK YOU AND SHOVE BMO UP YOUR FUCKEN ASS,of course this will have to bedone after their lease with the city is over! If MLSE wanted this,they can get it done!

[Shep]

Yes. I have played on turf for 2 years, and still every once in a while get on turf to train & play. Havent had many if any injuries due to it and do not see what the problem with it is. Maybe BMO's turf is just bad. Or maybe it depends on different body types? who knows.

Derosario just started playing on it anyways it should be Brennan, Robinson or Wynne complaining.

My point is to comment on the turf after you just lost 2-0 and missed a bunch of chances to ice the game is a poor excuse for the performance. Dero signed the contract with Toronto knowing that BMO has bad turf, so complaining in season especially after a bad result at home is disrespecting the fans for your poor performance.

Bottom line, TFC/MLSE knows the turf is a problem and is working on grass for BMO. It's not going to happen overnight, be in for the next home game or even for a game this season/year. So he should stop complaining to the media and focus on your game. Btw, I think Derosario has been playing well this season with exception to today's game.

Reminds me of the Canadian NT complaining about turf and not wanting to play at BMO, to go and play at a worse field Saputo with grass flying all over the place and to lose to Honduras 2-1 after taking the lead.

Stop the excuses and do the talking on the pitch!


I disagree.

I don't think he was using it as an excuse, he was just stating his opinion for the camera, I didn't feel disrespected as a fan - just the opposite, I was happy he was saying what was on my mind.

And why should it be only Brennan, Robinson and Wynne complaining? DeRo has as much a right to complain as anyone... and as for a poor performance, I personally think DeRo played as well as he could given the attention he was getting from Fire. Signing a contract doesn't mean he is supposed to keep his mouth shut and act the robot, it's a contract to play for TFC. If he sees an issue that is effecting the squad it's only in his and the clubs best interest that he address it. And it was a simple statement...

Post-match interview, running on adrenaline, DeRo said one line about the turf. If he started ranting for 2 minutes about it and the reffing, then there'd be cause for concern.

But again, I didn't see it as an excuse. He had already accepted the blame, fully admitting it was TFC's fault for not putting away our chances.

[Shep]

Chicago didn’t seem to have an issue with the turf today?! Seems like a lame excuse for a group of guys who lack finishing touches. I don’t disagree that the turf sucks balls but it’s a disadvantage for both teams not just DeRo and TFC.


I think they did have issue with it, but they finished their attempts, that was the difference. We had more shots, but less shot on goal.. our problem really came down to the finishing again. Yeah the passing was shite, but it was happening for both sides.

I wouldn't say that the Fire handled the turf better, they just struck better when they had the chance - but they were just as messy as getting to those chances as we were.

[jayeden]

What I quote below is from an extremely reliable source, those who can put the pieces together obviosuly know who i am talking about

" One of the biggest deals/challenges I was involved in with MLSE before by resignation, was the deal to build a new practice facility. The practice facility will get the current turf at BMO and real grass will be put in"

Grass is coming, 100%.

[FluSH]

Use the EDU money...

$$$Edu$$$

Naaaaaana, nananananaaaaaaaaaaaaa! nananaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! We want Grass!

[K1nG]

Use the EDU money...

$$$Edu$$$

Naaaaaana, nananananaaaaaaaaaaaaa! nananaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! We want Grass!

na naa, na na na, na na na, WE WANT GRASS!

I hope to see you leading the Bunker in that chant at the next game.

_____________________
The views and opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect those of the supporters section in 110 that does not have a name - dare I call them the No Name Boys?

[Roogsy]

De Ro = The Man

[Redcoe15]

New chant:

WE - WANT - GRASS - DUDE!!!

<CLAP! CLAP! CLAP-CLAP-CLAP!>

WE - WANT - GRASS - DUDE!!!

<CLAP! CLAP! CLAP-CLAP-CLAP!>

:stogey:

[BuSaPuNk]

I was impressed that DeRo said that after the game. It's so true the turf has to go and go now. This isn't the first time DeRo has said publiclly that this turf is shite....said it after the Canada/Jamica game and i believe after the all star game. Listen we all know the shit with who owns it and it has to be used for community use. MLSE is building a new practice facility by lakeshore lions area.....put in some rinks and outdoor and indoor soocer pitches and it's all good.

[EAsoccer]

I disagree.

I don't think he was using it as an excuse, he was just stating his opinion for the camera, I didn't feel disrespected as a fan - just the opposite, I was happy he was saying what was on my mind.

And why should it be only Brennan, Robinson and Wynne complaining? DeRo has as much a right to complain as anyone... and as for a poor performance, I personally think DeRo played as well as he could given the attention he was getting from Fire. Signing a contract doesn't mean he is supposed to keep his mouth shut and act the robot, it's a contract to play for TFC. If he sees an issue that is effecting the squad it's only in his and the clubs best interest that he address it. And it was a simple statement...

Post-match interview, running on adrenaline, DeRo said one line about the turf. If he started ranting for 2 minutes about it and the reffing, then there'd be cause for concern.

But again, I didn't see it as an excuse. He had already accepted the blame, fully admitting it was TFC's fault for not putting away our chances.

Im all for TFC players voicing their opinions, but saying the turf is shite is an excuse! Especially when other teams in MLS play on turf. If you didnt feel disrespected fine, but I did. To me he is insulting my soccer intelligence by trying to cover up the performance with a line about the turf, and some on this board are taking it and running with it because he is Dero.

I never said only Brennan,Wynne & Robinson should be complaining but if anyone is going to complain it should be those guys who have been training and playing on turf regularly since 2007. Dero has been with TFC for 8 or 9 weeks.

He's not supposed to shutup and act like a robot, but saying it post-match means he feels it had an influence on the game, otherwise he would just talk about the missed chances, bad marking, and the mistakes, and leave the turf comments for another day or for private meetings with MLSE.

Does Derosario complain about the turf when they win?

Like I said in my earlier post, everyone including I know the turf is a problem MLSE is working on getting grass. It's a process to get grass at BMO and its going to take awhile, if Dero is going to complain about it every so often knowing the issue is being worked on he should sit on the bench & when the grass comes then start playing.

Dero and TFC should take the blame for the loss and leave it at that, like the rest of his teammates did.

[EAsoccer]

Dero's doing us a favour here, we should run with it instead of saying he's using it an excuse. It might have been out of frustration but it's the truth. You think all the other players disagree? Obviously not. I wouldn't want your own players unhappy. The animosity will grow if there isn't grass here by next season.

Typical fans are going to just run with it. That's not good enough. TFC got outplayed, outscored, and outclassed by Chicago. No reason that the turf should even come into play.

[rocker]

TFC got outplayed, outscored, and outclassed by Chicago. No reason that the turf should even come into play.

I disagree on one thing: Chicago didn't "outplay" and "outclass" TFC.

They did outscore TFC. But Chicago looked like crap too for much of the game.. neither team could put a pass together. McBride was invisible most of the game except for the goal, same with Blanco for most of the game.
My father even said at half time "Chicago is very beatable".
This was no great advertisement for the quality of play in MLS ;)

In the end it came down to two plays.

[Roogsy]

It was a garbage game all around.

Both teams played like crap.

Chicago merely capitalized on a sleepy defense. Had we put away our chances, it would have been a different game.

I am not sure how to feel about whether De Ro is using the turf as an excuse or not. I am glad he hates it and says something. But did it really have anything to do with the result yesterday?

[Pigfynn]

^Watching the game in 6 minutes on the TFC website, we should have put 3 goals in easily. Those three chances 2 Barrett headers and a Vitti header were easy chances. This does not include the free kick off the bar and the subsequent header miss by Barrett.

WE NEED SOMEONE,ANYONE WHO CAN FINISH EASY CHANCES.

TFC would have only lost once this year if we had a player with this skill.

[Pookie]

The turf is only one problem that doesn't have a solution for the near future.
MO's inability to sign proven strikers who make real contact with the ball is another problem that can be fixed and it should be asap.

I think you'll find those two issues are related. Witness the "Darren Huckerby" saga of last year.

We have to play with what we've got. These guys have all scored at various levels and there is no reason why they can't be doing it here. Spend the money on a sports psychologist.

For all the flack that the strikers take, how about sending Guevara to Beckham's crossing clinic? Or better yet, highlight the dangers in passing directly to the opposition.

[FluSH]

Chicago played on the same turf, scored two goals and moved the ball around decently. I agree we need grass but for Derosario to say it after the match, means he is implying it was the reason for the loss or performance. It's a poor excuse to be honest.

It's kind of sad that TFC who have trained on and play 1/2 their games on this field turf cant seem to use the turf to their advantage and get results against teams that are not used to it.


Does Chicago train on Turf day in and day out? Do we train on grass?

[BleedRed]

By which pitch in montreal are you referring to, because Saputo stadium field is HORRENDUS

yes it is grass

But the field seems meant for golf use

You're wrong that Saputo has horrendous grass. It had horrendous grass only a few times which included the Canada v Honduras qualifier and this was due to the weather and the fact they had just laid down newer turf and it wasn't given enough time to root. I watched the last Impact match vs Charleston (for some reason it was on at Moxy's) and the grass looked fuckin awsome! Maybe a few times in the past it was shit but it's definately a quality pitch especially for USL even MLS.

It's very sad how Toronto fans are treated like fucking children being told to be patient over and over again and excited for no reason, because nothing ever gets done...

With that being said....grass is coming tomorrow!!!! :D:D

[EAsoccer]

Does Chicago train on Turf day in and day out? Do we train on grass?

No. Read my follow up posts.

[FluSH]

Typical fans are going to just run with it. That's not good enough. TFC got outplayed, outscored, and outclassed by Chicago. No reason that the turf should even come into play.

I think even if we would have won or tied the game DeRo would have made that statement... you cannot deny how bad the turf was yesterday... the bouncing of the ball it was almost a joke... that and who knows what it's doing to our player's knees...

Just because DeRo made this statement after a loss, does not mean we are going to forget the sentiments of others who have spoken before including but not limited to: Carver, Jim Brennan, and O'Brien.

To equate DeRo's statement and assuming he was blaming the loss on the turf is absurd... DeRo is fucking pro... not some house league player who's just come unto the league.

[EAsoccer]

I disagree on one thing: Chicago didn't "outplay" and "outclass" TFC.

They did outscore TFC. But Chicago looked like crap too for much of the game.. neither team could put a pass together. McBride was invisible most of the game except for the goal, same with Blanco for most of the game.
My father even said at half time "Chicago is very beatable".
This was no great advertisement for the quality of play in MLS ;)

In the end it came down to two plays.

Well they did get outplayed because they lost. But yea two invisible players 1 goal and 1 assist. Chicago is beatable but are undefeated still so for now they arent.

Like you said it came down to 2 plays, so talking about the turf post-game is pointless, Dero should stick to the 2 plays.

[EAsoccer]

I think even if we would have won or tied the game DeRo would have made that statement... you cannot deny how bad the turf was yesterday... the bouncing of the ball it was almost a joke... that and who knows what it's doing to our player's knees...

Just because DeRo made this statement after a loss, does not mean we are going to forget the sentiments of others who have spoken before including but not limited to: Carver, Jim Brennan, and O'Brien.

To equate DeRo's statement and assuming he was blaming the loss on the turf is absurd... DeRo is fucking pro... not some house league player who's just come unto the league.

Yes, he's a pro, a pro takes the L, and talks about what they didnt do to achieve the desired result. Exactly, Dero is a pro, so he shouldnt complain about the turf or pitch. Just say we lost, because we didnt play well enough.

If he's not blaming the loss on turf, dont bring it up after the game to the media. End of!

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

^^^ bla bla bla bla THE TURF IS SHITE !!!!!

[Blazer]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay,
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay BMO,
Ewww, Ah,
I wanna knoooo-oh-oooooooo-oh-oh,
Will you lay that grass?
Ewww, Ah,

<repeat>

[FluSH]

Yes, he's a pro, a pro takes the L, and talks about what they didnt do to achieve the desired result. Exactly, Dero is a pro, so he shouldnt complain about the turf or pitch. Just say we lost, because we didnt play well enough.

If he's not blaming the loss on turf, dont bring it up after the game to the media. End of!

Did you not watch yesterday's game? I mean is that ball bouncing normal to you? For a professional football league? DeRo should be making these statement at every interview so finally someone fucking listens...

If we didn't listen to Carver, Jim Brennan, O'Brien, and DeRo that the Turf needs to fucking go... Then who are we going to listen to?????

The Turf needs to GO

[Marc"2L"]

This is a sign. RPB leadership should be all over this.

The real campaign for grass starts now.

[FluSH]

Where are the people that were looking into starting the TFC wiki?

I would like to know how many current and former players have spoken against this Turf? and also even potential players (Huckerby?)

There should be a thread with a running list of all players who demand a CHANGE. If their voices are not beign heard... then maybe ours will.

[Marc"2L"]

I'm thinking a 4 part poster.

*Picture of normal grass*
Good grass
*Picture with plastic bottle and turf*
Bad Grass
*Picture of Bob Marley/dero/anything Rastafarian"
Smokes grass
*Picture of the krew*
No class

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

Let's all go down to city hall and protest for grass or ( let's all go on the highway and protest )

[BRed]

How about everyone throws a small patch of grass on the turf before the start of Saturday's game?

[Beach_Red]

How about everyone throws a small patch of grass on the turf before the start of Saturday's game?

Last year we talked about throwing packages of grass seed.

[Marc"2L"]

Maybe revise all we are saying is... give us some grass....

[noochie]

4 games on grass: 9 goals
6 games on turf: 4 goals

I am throwing some friggin' grass seed at the next game...

[deeznutz]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay,
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay BMO,
Ewww, Ah,Allez
I wanna knoooo-oh-oooooooo-oh-oh,
Will you lay that grass?
Ewww, Ah,

<repeat>


Fixed it for ya.
Now it should work with the speed up of the drum.

[king dave]

WE NEED THIS NOW!
http://www.dessosports.com/en/desso-grassmaster/what-is-desso-grassmaster.html?tx_powermail_pi1%5BmailID%5D=1678&cHash=b3a2d5b935#c1678

KD.

[K1nG]

Dero and TFC should take the blame for the loss and leave it at that, like the rest of his teammates did.

Dicchio has said that playing on the turf was probably going to take a year off of his career. Although other teams play on turf as well, we can't be sure that our turf is not inferior to their as we haven't played on both and truly assessed them. Also perhaps it is difficult for players to adjust to the turf. I could be wrong but perhaps Vitti is a prime example of this. Also I am not sure to what extent Barrett has had experience playing on turf but that could play a role in him missing empty nets.

[Pookie]

4 games on grass: 9 goals
6 games on turf: 4 goals

I am throwing some friggin' grass seed at the next game...

I'm with you on the grass though I'm not sure of the direct connection between grass and Barrett's ability to head a ball in the general direction of the goal.

[EENIE MAN]

I would be up for a protest of sorts. Maybe we should wear some green next week?
TFC hippies: " We want grass , man".

[The Kingpin]

Every knows that grass would be superior... But DeRosario's display lacked leadership and cunning. He needs to focus on football and winning - many players have played on this crap - but they don't winge about it in a undisciplined way. We also need a DP forward... but hey... Just my thoughts...

[Stryker]

DeRo's comments (regardless of their validity) aren't gonna go over well with the powers that be.
And I don't think you'll here anything negitive about the turf from Jimmy B who's flogging it for a few extra bucks.

[Blazer]

I would be up for a protest of sorts. Maybe we should wear some green next week?
TFC hippies: " We want grass , man".

Any protest should to reflect our condemnation of being victim to poor or impartial MLS refereeing before something less important and in-house like our displeasure with the field turf. BMO will get us grass - it's coming, but I'm growing more tired of MLS officiating with each passing game.

[prizby]

I would be up for a protest of sorts. Maybe we should wear some green next week?
TFC hippies: " We want grass , man".

TFC cannot do much about it

BMO Field is owned by the City of Toronto, not TFC

[ExiledRed]

TFC cannot do much about it

BMO Field is owned by the City of Toronto, not TFC


Everyone is aware of this, why do you keep making the point? Are you suggesting we should just sit on our hands because of this convenient little excuse not to provide our professional football team with a professional playing facility?

TFC can do lots about it as the main tenant, and the only real reason the facility has 20,000 seats. People keep saying that without turf there would be no BMO field, but it's also true that without TFC there would be no BMO field either, and the long term success of TFC is being threatened by the turf.

It seems to me that MLSE and TFC actually are doing something about it and this training facility will be the key. This comes about through MLSE renegotiating it's options with the city out of necessity, not through throwing up their hands and saying 'we can't change it, the city owns it'

[prizby]

Everyone is aware of this, why do you keep making the point? Are you suggesting we should just sit on our hands because of this convenient little excuse not to provide our professional football team with a professional playing facility?

TFC can do lots about it as the main tenant, and the only real reason the facility has 20,000 seats. People keep saying that without turf there would be no BMO field, but it's also true that without TFC there would be no BMO field either, and the long term success of TFC is being threatened by the turf.

It seems to me that MLSE and TFC actually are doing something about it and this training facility will be the key. This comes about through MLSE renegotiating it's options with the city out of necessity, not through throwing up their hands and saying 'we can't change it, the city owns it'


why protest at the game? it wont change anything, everyone needs to go to city hall, lobby their local counciller, petition the city, doing stuff at the game is almost like its just gonna fall on deaf ears

one of my favourite ideas is do what lazio does, if your not happy with something the club is doing, have a silent game, show that you can be the 12th man, but you also have the power to make the 12th man disappear, doing chants will get some ears, doing nothing will get a lot more concern

from what I have been told, there is no chance of grass before 2011.

[Blazer]

^ What have you been told?

[prizby]

^ What have you been told?

the earliest we could see grass isn't until 2011

[Kaz]

Is BMO's Pitch still 2-Star Rated? If it is then really it meets FIFA Standards, and you can't blame the poor quality of play on the Turf.

Last nights game was the players as much as anything.
Yes Grass is good, no Grass isn't going to suddenly make playing amazingly better.
The City will want a second high capacity Tenant at BMO if they make the switch to grass and lose out on the winter revenue, and they will push for the Argo's to be given a chance to play at BMO. I'm almost sure of it.

So which is more important, Turf that is FIFA Certified for Champions League play, or having no Canadian Football lines on the field?

Is it possible that all the abuse it has taken as a public use facility and having those dome on it in the winter have compressed the turf? Because the bouncing we are seeing shouldn't be happening if the Pitch has a 2-star rating.

EDIT
As a secondary question would switching to Polytan Ligaturf, like RedBull Arena in Austria has be any help, that is home to a top Austrian Side?

[BRed]

Grass seeds will fall on people below, I rather just take out a patch of green grass, bundle the bottom with seram wrap (spell check) and elastic band, then your bundle'ograss is ready to be thrown on plastic turf. :)

Wearing green is a No nO = Sounders Colors, one should never commit such a crime under any circumstances.

[Blazer]

from what I have been told, there is no chance of grass before 2011.

... source(s) only please ...

[Marc"2L"]

A while back. I pressured Paul into giving an off the record of sorts time frame.

2 seasons. But that was before this.

[ensco]

Everyone is aware of this, why do you keep making the point? Are you suggesting we should just sit on our hands because of this convenient little excuse not to provide our professional football team with a professional playing facility?

TFC can do lots about it as the main tenant, and the only real reason the facility has 20,000 seats. People keep saying that without turf there would be no BMO field, but it's also true that without TFC there would be no BMO field either, and the long term success of TFC is being threatened by the turf.

It seems to me that MLSE and TFC actually are doing something about it and this training facility will be the key. This comes about through MLSE renegotiating it's options with the city out of necessity, not through throwing up their hands and saying 'we can't change it, the city owns it'

My fear is that "the City owns it" and "we're working on it, it's really complicated" are MLSE-speak for "we can't justify an investment of millions of dollars when there's no associated revenue increase, so we'll keep placating people by talking about it forever". Remember, Anselmi shot Mo down last year when he first talked about using the Edu money for grass.

The City would be glad to get access to a new year-round facility, plus winter access at BMO. The mayor is for it bigtime, people have to stop talking about Joe Pantalone as if he actually decides this.

Will MLSE see that without this investment their existing asset is at serious risk? That is the only question.

[Marc"2L"]

My fear is that "the City owns it" and "we're working on it, it's really complicated" are MLSE-speak for "we can't justify an investment of millions of dollars when there's no associated revenue increase, so we'll keep placating people by talking about it forever". Remember, Anselmi shot Mo down last year when he first talked about using the Edu money for grass.

The City would be glad to get access to a new year-round facility, plus winter access at BMO. The mayor is for it bigtime, people have to stop talking about Joe Pantalone as if he actually decides this.

Will MLSE see that without this investment their existing asset is at serious risk? That is the only question.

By that logic a full on boycott for future revenue streams is totally justified both emotionally and tactically.
:flare:

[Waggy]

I'm sure the club wants grass. Why? Since its not their building its not like they'd be in charge of maintaining it, they'd just play on it. But the reasoning is simple. MLSE is a business, players are assets. If the fieldturf is in ANY way (even mental) making the players feel less healthy, then their assets are being devalued by it. MLSE as a business wants to maximize its assets (its in their interest for Dero to play at a high level, healthy, until his contract is up. since they are paying him irregardless). I'm sure they're pushing the city for grass. BUT, grass isn't exactly an important topic around city hall. We all saw recently how fast Mayor Miller and city council move on important issues (their Tamil Toe is showing), why would they move quickly on unimportant ones? especially ones that they dont gain very much from? To that end, we need to lobby city hall to make them understand they DO have something to gain from this, or lose. Our votes.

[Blizzard]

It was a garbage game all around.

Both teams played like crap.

Chicago merely capitalized on a sleepy defense. Had we put away our chances, it would have been a different game.

I am not sure how to feel about whether De Ro is using the turf as an excuse or not. I am glad he hates it and says something. But did it really have anything to do with the result yesterday?

It had little to do with the result of the match BUT it had an impact on the quality of play not just in this match but in all matches.

The quality of the game is diminished by the surface.

If we want to see better soccer, if we want to see a higher quality on-field product, the change needs to take place.

No, it didn't effect our ability to head the ball into the goal but we supporters would have a much better time watching soccer at BMO if the FieldTurf were removed.

B

[deeznutz]

if your not happy with something the club is doing, have a silent game, show that you can be the 12th man, but you also have the power to make the 12th man disappear, doing chants will get some ears, doing nothing will get a lot more concern



Im in for a silent game even tossing in afew hate chants as well.

[Waggy]

Completely disagree with the silent game. First of all, we dont have the control over the entire crowd to enforce it. Second, it ONLY hurts the LAST people we want: the players. They're on our side, why should we hurt them making a point they agree with? Its the city we need to push, not the team. How about a random RPB section of the next city council meeting? Are they open? Do they have viewing gallaries? How about a few Who Are Yas at Miller?

[deeznutz]

Completely disagree with the silent game. First of all, we dont have the control over the entire crowd to enforce it.

There are 2 so called capos that make you people chant in a flick of a finger.Enough said.

[EENIE MAN]

Isn't David Miller a season ticket holder?

[Waggy]

There are 2 so called capos that make you people chant in a flick of a finger.Enough said.

Only in 3 sections of the stadium. Granted the 3 loudest sections, but still. Think the entire east/west/north ends would co-operate without prior knowledge? How would they even get knowledge of it at the game?

[Blizzard]

Only in 3 sections of the stadium. Granted the 3 loudest sections, but still. Think the entire east/west/north ends would co-operate without prior knowledge? How would they even get knowledge of it at the game?

Exactly. Anybody who believes we can silence the stadium in protest is living in some sort of fantasy land. The supporters groups are maybe 20% of the total number of spectators.

We might be able to get the word out to that 20% and perhaps a few more but the remaining majority of the stadium would just treat the game like any other.

Personally, I don't like the idea on a personal level. They're my team and I'll cheer for them.

B

[AL-MO]

Completely disagree with the silent game. First of all, we dont have the control over the entire crowd to enforce it. Second, it ONLY hurts the LAST people we want: the players. They're on our side, why should we hurt them making a point they agree with? Its the city we need to push, not the team. How about a random RPB section of the next city council meeting? Are they open? Do they have viewing gallaries? How about a few Who Are Yas at Miller?

Don't under estimate the role of the team and MLSE in this.

Also Miller is a STH. He would install grass in a second if he could.

[TFC FORZA RPB]

if only we could get on the field

http://www.biz49.com/patch-perfect-video.htm

:scarf::flare::drum:

[Waggy]

Completely agree Blizz. Its the opposite of everything a fan is supposed to stand for. We support the team irregardless. Its political pressure thats needed on city council anyways. Or on MLSE if you believe they are the people to go at. Either way, POLITICAL. Nothing to do with the actual club.


Edit: I meant Miller as a sub for the rest of city council. I honeslty couldn't name another councillor, my own included. So ya. haha

[deeznutz]

Soory but with no drums and no banners and everyone sitting down I think the whole place would know something is up.

[AL-MO]

Soory but with no drums and no banners and everyone sitting down I think the whole place would know something is up.

It definitely would. Something to consider.

[Waggy]

Deez, to be honest with you, when I'm not near the south end, I pay attention, just to try and get the chants going in the part of the stadium I'm in. But I'm not looking. I'm watching the game. And so are most people. by like, the 30th minute people might go "gee, it sounds different in here", but anything more then that.... I think you may be over-estimating the south ends impact on the rest of the fans. The players notice, but they're a LOT closer than 90% of the rest of the fans. Even when its LOUD in the south end, up in the 2nd deck its muffled ambience noise at best.

[deeznutz]

Deez, to be honest with you, when I'm not near the south end, I pay attention, just to try and get the chants going in the part of the stadium I'm in. But I'm not looking. I'm watching the game. And so are most people. by like, the 30th minute people might go "gee, it sounds different in here", but anything more then that.... I think you may be over-estimating the south ends impact on the rest of the fans. The players notice, but they're a LOT closer than 90% of the rest of the fans. Even when its LOUD in the south end, up in the 2nd deck its muffled ambience noise at best.

Well bring up an idea to your "fearless leaders" also known as "the click" they seem to be bright people who know the ropes about getting stuff done around here.

[prizby]

from what I have been told, there is no chance of grass before 2011.

... source(s) only please ...

from inside bmo field

[Waggy]

Ok, so just so I can be clear, right now we're looking at grass for next season or the season after? Either way its getting done right? Its just the speed we're worried about? That makes sense to me. The city built the stadium, why would they want to make a radical and expensive change before 5 years? 5 years seems a reasonable amount of time to allow a fairly major renovation.

[prizby]

Ok, so just so I can be clear, right now we're looking at grass for next season or the season after? Either way its getting done right? Its just the speed we're worried about? That makes sense to me. The city built the stadium, why would they want to make a radical and expensive change before 5 years? 5 years seems a reasonable amount of time to allow a fairly major renovation.

From what I have been told, the earliest is 2011, that does not mean that is guaranteed. It only means that we know almost for sure (unless some drastic change happens) that 2010 will be on turf.

when i am told more, i'll share :), but for now, this is all my ears have been privy to

[BRed]

if only we could get on the field

http://www.biz49.com/patch-perfect-video.htm

:scarf::flare::drum:
"Just spread it and forget it!, it's that easy!"

I say we throw some of that on the field on Saturday. Then by the next game we will have nothing but lushes green grass on our home field. Come on you FANSSS!!! "Just spread it and forget it!"

[Waggy]

From what I have been told, the earliest is 2011, that does not mean that is guaranteed. It only means that we know almost for sure (unless some drastic change happens) that 2010 will be on turf.

when i am told more, i'll share :), but for now, this is all my ears have been privy to


I gotcha. Ok, well I'm sure enough people will be pissed, but to be honest thats enough for me for now. I do actually have faith that MLSE is aware this needs to get done, and as pointed out a few times, with Miller so solidly behind the franchise its just a matter of time. Thanks for the insite!

[deeznutz]

I gotcha. Ok, well I'm sure enough people will be pissed, but to be honest thats enough for me for now. I do actually have faith that MLSE is aware this needs to get done, and as pointed out a few times, with Miller so solidly behind the franchise its just a matter of time. Thanks for the insite!


LOL I think you are the only one in town that has "faith" in ml$e! Good for you! :flare:

[Brooker]

10. We'd be #1 if you could have a piss at a game in less than 40 minutes.
11. We'd be #1 if you could get a beer in less than 40 minutes.


takes me 15 minutes to piss, go smoke & grab another beer at halftime.

it's perfect.

[Waggy]

LOL I think you are the only one in town that has "faith" in ml$e! Good for you! :flare:


Hahaha, very true. But in this case, its in their own self interest. Thats the only reason lol. Its for no-one else. They don't cheap out on their own facilities. The Flight Deck is probably the best Practice Facility in the NBA. The Leafs facility is probably the best in the NHL. Their arena is considered top class in the world. Hell, they spent 15 or 20 mil on that rediculous screen. I think once MLSE is sure this isn't just a fad (think the Toronto Rock), they'll invest to make sure they can charge more for tickets.

[TFC FORZA RPB]

"Just spread it and forget it!, it's that easy!"

I say we throw some of that on the field on Saturday. Then by the next game we will have nothing but lushes green grass on our home field. Come on you FANSSS!!! "Just spread it and forget it!"


LMFAO hahaha

:flare::drum::scarf:

[Roogsy]

The Grass isn't MLSE or MoJo. It's the City of Toronto that doesn't see BMO as the Home Pitch of the TFC, but as a public use facility that is used in the winter. If we want a change, then bring 3,000 supporters to City Hall and get the city to pass a bill to change that.


I am down with this...

[Zeke_Jones]

The city has enough money to make the seats at BMO out of 24 karat gold if they wanted to.

[Roogsy]

The city has enough money to make the seats at BMO out of 24 karat gold if they wanted to.

LOL!

Actually quite the opposite. This city is short on cash and have been dipping into emergency reserves just to make ends meet. It's in horrible financial shape. Has been for years.

All the more reason they should take money from MLSE and run with it. Let the team do what it wants with the stadium so long as the city gets paid. Everyone is happy!

[Toronto Ruffrider]

The city throws enough money around to make the seats at BMO out of 24 karat gold if they wanted to.

Fixed! :D

[TFC RealDeal RPB]

let's protest already that's the only way we can get it done

[Zeke_Jones]

we should protest but how can we compete with people who run out onto the gardiner??

I want grass at BMO as much as the next person but it does nothing for me when im in the hospital with head trauma due to police batons or angry motorists.

Maybe a hunger strike at BMO???

stop buying 5 dollar ice creams and 4 dollar waters??

That will piss them off real nice!!

[wzhxvy]

Has anyone ever dated someone that everyone else thought was cool, but you knew better because you had dated them for a while...yes....thats our turf...the fact we get fuc&ed by it every week does not make it better for us or an advantage, and the fact that both teams were fuc%ed by it does not make it equal because it fuc%s us every week...any questions ?

[Roogsy]

LOL! Can't argue with that...

[sidney]

The city has enough money to make the seats at BMO out of 24 karat gold if they wanted to.


It's MLSE that has the money bags...it's about time they f-in-pony-up!

MLSE needs to make a simple statement now!. "Next season, BMO/TFC will have real grass."

...come-on MLSE, you cheap c**nts!

[Pookie]

Do you know what's interesting?

There is talk that BMO will add grass on a temporary basis this summer in order to play an international friendly.

If that happens, just keep it there for the rest of the season.

Here's the full article on the temporary grass.

http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090419.wsptgrass19/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail

[ExiledRed]

Has anyone ever dated someone that everyone else thought was cool, but you knew better because you had dated them for a while...yes....thats our turf...the fact we get fuc&ed by it every week does not make it better for us or an advantage, and the fact that both teams were fuc%ed by it does not make it equal because it fuc%s us every week...any questions ?

Poor analogy, nobody else thinks the turf is cool, nobody.

Nobody thought it was cool before it went in, (there's a difference between a few unconvincing salesmen saying it's cool, and the ownership obfuscating the matter with statistics that dont hold up)

Actually, a better analogy would be, that we are dating a skank who we didn't realise was a skank, but now three years on we realise that everybody in the city has had her.

[Waggy]

Poor analogy, nobody else thinks the turf is cool, nobody.

Nobody thought it was cool before it went in, (there's a difference between a few unconvincing salesmen saying it's cool, and the ownership obfuscating the matter with statistics that dont hold up)

Actually, a better analogy would be, that we are dating a skank who we didn't realise was a skank, but now three years on we realise that everybody in the city has had her.


Thats just cold! I'd say its more like the smoking hot girl you meet and start dating, only to find out she's smoking hot thanks to a boob job and lippo suction, and as soon as the lipo wears off, she balloons. Suddenly you're dating some fat girl, still has the fake tits, but it just isnt' the same... much like a SSG! lol

+1 for the mass city hall protest. Except how can we work that where we can go while councils in session? I dunno about youguys, but unlike the Tamils, I actually have to work during the week.

[ExiledRed]

Sure she was smoking hot, but nobody else would touch her cause she was a skank.

Except us that is, because we were just desperate to get laid.

[Yohan]

+1 for the mass city hall protest. Except how can we work that where we can go while councils in session? I dunno about youguys, but unlike the Tamils, I actually have to work during the week.
we know the grass is coming

so exactly what will a mass protest achieve?

[Waggy]

As I said above in the thread, the only issue is speed. Is it going to be 2011, 2012? Why not 2010? May as well let them know its an issue. I'm not saying to do it daily, just one time to get a point across.

And touche exiled, touche. Well played sir haha

[Yohan]

As I said above in the thread, the only issue is speed. Is it going to be 2011, 2012? Why not 2010? May as well let them know its an issue. I'm not saying to do it daily, just one time to get a point across.

And touche exiled, touche. Well played sir haha
i dunno. seems like a bad time to do any sort of public protests after tamil mess

not to mention possible negative press, considering that if the grass is on the way, it'll look like the supporters aren't being reasonable

i want grass now too, but there has to be better options to increase the speed of getting grass than a public protest (and to most T.O citizens, the grass isn't an issue)

[Waggy]

Actually, thinking about it, I have a GREAT idea of when to have the rally. Not till next year, but how about the next weed march! THey hang out on the north side of Queens Park, we can go to City Hall if they're no closer to bringing grass in. This way, 1) we see what happens in the next 10 months with a grass pitch. 2) The tamil protests are long forgotten, and 3) We get a TON of free/good press as "the other" grass protesters! Instead of sitting and smoking, we can stand and chant! (and... well theres nothing wrong with going for 2 causes at once right? ;))

[Yohan]

Actually, thinking about it, I have a GREAT idea of when to have the rally. Not till next year, but how about the next weed march! THey hang out on the north side of Queens Park, we can go to City Hall if they're no closer to bringing grass in. This way, 1) we see what happens in the next 10 months with a grass pitch. 2) The tamil protests are long forgotten, and 3) We get a TON of free/good press as "the other" grass protesters! Instead of sitting and smoking, we can stand and chant! (and... well theres nothing wrong with going for 2 causes at once right? ;))
LOL!

[ExiledRed]

i dunno. seems like a bad time to do any sort of public protests after tamil mess

not to mention possible negative press, considering that if the grass is on the way, it'll look like the supporters aren't being reasonable

i want grass now too, but there has to be better options to increase the speed of getting grass than a public protest (and to most T.O citizens, the grass isn't an issue)

If grass is on the way, they should tell us, and give us a date.

Until then, it's fair to assume that they're still 'discussing' it and they could easily be 'discussing it' in 2011.

[ExiledRed]

Also, Tamil protests have no impact on this at all.

The issues are seperate, and I don't think we're talking about direct action, civil disobedience or blocking a public highway, are we?

[Yohan]

If grass is on the way, they should tell us, and give us a date.

Until then, it's fair to assume that they're still 'discussing' it and they could easily be 'discussing it' in 2011.
that's true too


Also, Tamil protests have no impact on this at all.

The issues are seperate, and I don't think we're talking about direct action, civil disobedience or blocking a public highway, are we?
it's all about perception

first time an average civvy hears the words 'public protest', they'll think tamils and associate this protest as the same.

given the fact that the avg civvy couldn't give a damn about the grass at BMO Field, they'll just label us as shit disturbers and heck, might as well as call us hooligans too

[prizby]

There is talk that BMO will add grass on a temporary basis this summer in order to play an international friendly.


I have heard there is talk of up to 3 international friendlies at BMO this year, of course 95% of negotiations fall through.

[ExiledRed]

it's all about perception

first time an average civvy hears the words 'public protest', they'll think tamils and associate this protest as the same.

given the fact that the avg civvy couldn't give a damn about the grass at BMO Field, they'll just label us as shit disturbers and heck, might as well as call us hooligans too

Sorry Yohan, I usually respect your opinion but this is nonsense.

Do you think the average civilian is a retard? When you last heard the words 'public protest' did you immediately jump to the conclusion that it would be a bunch of agitators disturbing shit?

Canadian people by large are intelligent enough to distinguish between a direct action protest over activities in a foreign country, and a small, civil protest about local politics.

Those we want to hear the message probably will. Those that don't care won't care enough to 'perceive' us as anything, and will go happily about their day as if we dont exist. (Unless you think we should be blocking the roads, which is out of proportion)

[James17930]

Is it just me or hasn't this already been decided yet?

Aren't they building a practice facility near the Lakeshore arena and putting in a FieldTurf field and bubble?

[Yohan]

Sorry Yohan, I usually respect your opinion but this is nonsense.

Do you think the average civilian is a retard? When you last heard the words 'public protest' did you immediately jump to the conclusion that it would be a bunch of agitators disturbing shit?

Canadian people by large are intelligent enough to distinguish between a direct action protest over activities in a foreign country, and a small, civil protest about local politics.

Those we want to hear the message probably will. Those that don't care won't care enough to 'perceive' us as anything, and will go happily about their day as if we dont exist. (Unless you think we should be blocking the roads, which is out of proportion)
i'm pretty cynical about humans in general so you'll have to take my opinion with a grain of salt

prejudice and first impression IMO has a lot of influence on opinion of a person. not to mention short attention span

if you knew nothing about about footy and BMO Field grass situation (because you're an avg hockey loving Canuck), and you read on the paper this headline "Soccer fans hold public protest about grass", what will you think?

[nascarguy]

10 seconds ago DeRo said this during the CBC post-game interview:

"This turf's got to go!. I'm sick of it. It's killing our game!"

what to you think MoJo/MLSE/RPB'ers?


It's time to make athere banner this time if they lose it again the shit is going to hit the fan.

[Yohan]

It's time to make athere banner this time if they lose it again the shit is going to hit the fan.
ok. two losses at home isn't exactly the end of the world

step away from the panic button!

[BRed]

Just spread it and forget it!

[ExiledRed]

if you knew nothing about about footy and BMO Field grass situation (because you're an avg hockey loving Canuck), and you read on the paper this headline "Soccer fans hold public protest about grass", what will you think?

I'd think, 'wow, those soccer fans care about their soccer don't they?'

Then I'd sip my coffee, smoke a cigarette and forget about it.

[ExiledRed]

Wht concerns me about this, is that DeRo might face a fine or other form of discipline. It's no secret that players aren't allowed to denounce the turf publicly.

As a supporter of the team, I am not having it, if DeRo is disciplined over this.

[Super]

Everyone hates the turf - it's no secret. I'm fairly confident that we'll have real grass installed for our next season, but obviously a bit of pressure from players and supporters may help to speed up the process. I say we keep the pressure going - and build on it.

[sidney]

many are saying that they are "confident that grass is coming" or that "it's a matter of when and not if" but this/that ain't good enough. We need to, and the media needs to, pressure MLSE to officially announce the death of the plastic pitch and the birth date (needs to be ready for the beginning of the 2010 season) of the grass pitch period!

[dantdot]

Yes sir, there's a lot of wishful thinking going on around here, thinking everything will come together by itself next year. If supporters can't get behind what's best for the club(grass!), then why are we here?

[TFC07]

DeRo go and speak to Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone. He's holding it up.

Bingo.

Mayor Miller wants grass too, but he can't make it happen unless he gets support from people like Joe Pantalone to support it.

[Waggy]

Yes sir, there's a lot of wishful thinking going on around here, thinking everything will come together by itself next year. If supporters can't get behind what's best for the club(grass!), then why are we here?


Um, how about the game on sat? This is a whole seperate issue from 'the club'. Its not wishful thinking when MLSE and the City have both said they want grass as soon as possible. The only problems are the ones over in city hall, completely independent from the team. Which is why even though I advocate going to lobby them directly, I can completely understand people not wanting to.

[nascarguy]

ok. two losses at home isn't exactly the end of the world

step away from the panic button!
it's only 2 losses

I care more about getting grass then the team losing. The team lost becuses the ref did not call the handball and give up.

[sidney]

Bingo.

Mayor Miller wants grass too, but he can't make it happen unless he gets support from people like Joe Pantalone to support it.

then email these two to put it on the city agenda pronto!

councillor_pantalone@toronto.ca (councillor_pantalone@toronto.ca)

mayor_miller@toronto.ca (mayor_miller@toronto.ca)

and bug the shit out of TFC/MLSE (see below) until they committ to something:

TORONTO FC
416-360-GOAL (4625) and 416-815-5400 x 5020

[ensco]

Hold on!

I beg you, stop and think about this for a second. I think the people who want to go after the City, protest, complain, whatever, have this dead wrong.

The City is not the ultimate problem. Let's go back to the beginning.

The people who paid for BMO were, mostly, the federal and provincial governments, who contributed (if memory serves) $45 million between them. MLSE paid $10 million, guaranteed cost overruns up to another $10 million, and the City contributed $10 million in land.

For the $10 million "contribution", the City, and only the City, became a partner in the venture. They retained ownership of the facility, and receive a significant chunk (20-33% on average) of the money coming into BMO (they get a decent chunk of the ticket, luxury box, concession revenues, they even get some of the jersey sales). This amount has been estimated to be more than $2 million a year to the City.

The City are true partners of MLSE in the TFC project. They would get hurt by any decline in TFC revenues, and have no particluar financial interest in the pub teams that pay $75/hour to use to field when TFC isn't using it. These fees are small beer to the City, same as they would be to MLSE.

This facility was built in the public interest, but this is only primarily the case for Ottawa and Queens Park. For the municipal government, this was first and foremost a business deal. City council is fractious at the best of times, but I'd bet money Miller could get anything he wants done there on this topic. All the City needs is another facility to satisfy the public interest. They're incented to do what is good for the long-term interest of TFC.

The real issue here, in my analysis, is embarrassment to Ottawa and Queens Park. Nobody wants to be seen as having used public money to build a stadium for the primary use of a private enterprise. That's the Skydome debacle all over again.

So two things need to happen: (1) enough time has to pass so that the intricate logic underlying the original deal is forgotten, so that the Ottawa and Tioronto bureaucrats who approved the original deal won't lose their jobs, and (2) MLSE has to pony up serious money to give everyone the sense that the amenities offered (in return for committing the stadium to TFC-only use during the MLS season) are worth it. So the training facility (or whatever it is that the fieldturf will move to) must be in a central, ie expensive, location. Add that to the cost of installing, and maintaining, something like Dessomaster, and you're in the millions, in terms of cost to MLSE.

Without a single dime of clearly visible revenue for MLSE directly attached to these MLSE dollars invested.

Of course, many of us believe this would pay off huge for MLSE in the long run, but no one really knows. It's primarily a defensive investment, to protect what's there, at least that's how I think the suits there would see it.

So go easy on the City. Let Miller handle it. Our battle is with MLSE. They have to be made to understand that, if this investment isn't made, everything they have built so far with TFC is at risk.

[sidney]

It's MLSE that has the money bags...it's about time they f-in-pony-up!

MLSE needs to make a simple statement now!. "Next season, BMO/TFC will have real grass."

...come-on MLSE, you cheap c**nts!


so then my original position (above quote) was right then.

[ensco]

so then my original position (above quote) was right then.

Yes I think so!

[jloome]

Someone earlier in the thread made the "set it and forget it" joke, but there are new breeds of fast-growing, tight-knit grass (mostly made from rye variants mixed with kentucky bluegrass) that are designed to grow in virtually any circumstance with just watering.

Why not use this stuff to reseed annually? Seriously, a few hundred bucks worth of seed, plus the cost of a watering system, and you lay the artificial turf over top of it during winger and use it as a base for the public use.

It's cheap enough to put the grass in now. The issue is drainage and a watering system. But that's a one-time capital cost.

I dunno. Seems to me that in this age of tough, multi-purpose grass this shouldn't be the issue it used to be. Perhaps a lot of stadiums are just taken for a ride on grass maintenance costs. Any agricultural technicians out there who know the finer points?

[boban]

Hold on!

I beg you, stop and think about this for a second. I think the people who want to go after the City, protest, complain, whatever, have this dead wrong.

The City is not the ultimate problem. Let's go back to the beginning.

The people who paid for BMO were, mostly, the federal and provincial governments, who contributed (if memory serves) $45 million between them. MLSE paid $10 million, guaranteed cost overruns up to another $10 million, and the City contributed $10 million in land.

For the $10 million "contribution", the City, and only the City, became a partner in the venture. They retained ownership of the facility, and receive a significant chunk (20-33% on average) of the money coming into BMO (they get a decent chunk of the ticket, luxury box, concession revenues, they even get some of the jersey sales). This amount has been estimated to be more than $2 million a year to the City.

The City are true partners of MLSE in the TFC project. They would get hurt by any decline in TFC revenues, and have no particluar financial interest in the pub teams that pay $75/hour to use to field when TFC isn't using it. These fees are small beer to the City, same as they would be to MLSE.

This facility was built in the public interest, but this is only primarily the case for Ottawa and Queens Park. For the municipal government, this was first and foremost a business deal. City council is fractious at the best of times, but I'd bet money Miller could get anything he wants done there on this topic. All the City needs is another facility to satisfy the public interest. They're incented to do what is good for the long-term interest of TFC.

The real issue here, in my analysis, is embarrassment to Ottawa and Queens Park. Nobody wants to be seen as having used public money to build a stadium for the primary use of a private enterprise. That's the Skydome debacle all over again.

So two things need to happen: (1) enough time has to pass so that the intricate logic underlying the original deal is forgotten, so that the Ottawa and Tioronto bureaucrats who approved the original deal won't lose their jobs, and (2) MLSE has to pony up serious money to give everyone the sense that the amenities offered (in return for committing the stadium to TFC-only use during the MLS season) are worth it. So the training facility (or whatever it is that the fieldturf will move to) must be in a central, ie expensive, location. Add that to the cost of installing, and maintaining, something like Dessomaster, and you're in the millions, in terms of cost to MLSE.

Without a single dime of clearly visible revenue for MLSE directly attached to these MLSE dollars invested.

Of course, many of us believe this would pay off huge for MLSE in the long run, but no one really knows. It's primarily a defensive investment, to protect what's there, at least that's how I think the suits there would see it.

So go easy on the City. Let Miller handle it. Our battle is with MLSE. They have to be made to understand that, if this investment isn't made, everything they have built so far with TFC is at risk.
Fed = $27 mil
Prov = $8 mil
City = $10
MLSE = $8 Mil
Naming Rights = $10 mil
= $63 mil construction cost. (Actually the actual real 'construction cost' was $58-59 mil)
The $10 mil in land value is an accounting number. These funds were not needed to build.

[ensco]

Fed = $27 mil
Prov = $8 mil
City = $10
MLSE = $8 Mil
Naming Rights = $10 mil
= $63 mil construction cost. (Actually the actual real 'construction cost' was $58-59 mil)
The $10 mil in land value is an accounting number. These funds were not needed to build.

Thanks.

[sidney]

Fed = $27 mil
Prov = $8 mil
City = $10
MLSE = $8 Mil
Naming Rights = $10 mil
= $63 mil construction cost. (Actually the actual real 'construction cost' was $58-59 mil)
The $10 mil in land value is an accounting number. These funds were not needed to build.

Thanks also Boban. But considering the amount of $ generated by TFC (season tickets, individual tickets, corporate boxes, sponsorship, jerseys + gotchies, beer and food sales/robbery etc...) this is f-in chump-change. If you (MLSE) f-in-care about "Toronto Football Club" you'll get-er-f-in-done now!!! (grass installed) the day after our last TFC home game this season!...MLSE, we await your all-too-late official response/announcement!

[Kaz]

Grass isn't coming anytime soon, look for other options, Replacing the Turf with new Field Turf or another Brand, is a more likely option. Again I say do we have video of FC Red Bull Salzburg playing on their Pitch?

One possibility being looked at, Anselmi said, is building a new TFC practice facility adjacent to the Leafs new four-rink workout complex at Kipling and Lake Shore. "There's lots of work to do before that can come to fruition but the vision for it really is taking that whole block and turning it into a real high-performance and community sports complex," Anselmi said. (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/603933)
Once completed, that site would offer some of the public-access uses that now go on at BMO Field and make it easier to replace the FieldTurf with real grass, he said. (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/603933)
Pantalone (Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone) was less sympathetic to that move, noting that while a new facility would be great, the attraction of BMO Field for public use is its "great location" in relation to downtown Toronto. (http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/603933)
(http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/603933)

[NateDoGG]

how beautiful would this pattern look on those cup nights :)
first one to score on the new grass pitch will for sure be doing a power slide!!!

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//bc/8/bc87f975918f7090479ca8addecc82e9.jpg

[tlear]

Realistically unless attendance starts dropping dramatically and few players leave/ask to be traded we are not seeing grass pitch. Maybe they can get better plastic..

[nascarguy]

Fed = $27 mil
Prov = $8 mil
City = $10
MLSE = $8 Mil
Naming Rights = $10 mil
= $63 mil construction cost. (Actually the actual real 'construction cost' was $58-59 mil)
The $10 mil in land value is an accounting number. These funds were not needed to build.
so they spent all this money and the place is still shit

yup time for a banner/ tifo and I'm not making it becuse we lost a game

[boban]

so they spent all this money and the place is still shit
Actually it's not a lot of money for a 20,000 seater stadium.
Like Peddie said 'It's really bare bones'.

[nascarguy]

we need to start a chant next game

"This turf's got to go!. hey hey ho ho "

[Redcoe15]

we need to start a chant next game

"This turf's got to go!. hey hey ho ho "
WE - WANT - REAL - GRASS!
<CLAP! CLAP! CLAP, CLAP, CLAP!>
WE - WANT - REAL - GRASS!
<CLAP! CLAP! CLAP, CLAP, CLAP!>

[GhostPK]

The home of Ottawa Fury......it's a beautiful grass surface.
BTW...Ottawa is the coldest capital city in the world.

Woah woah woah.... hold your horses right there.... Ottawa might suck but it is by no means the coldest capital city in the world. Ever spent a winter in Regina, Sask? I've lived there far too long (I was born there, whats your excuse?). There is nay a colder place.

[GhostPK]

For those who havent used turf as a playing surface... My university just ripped out our grass field (which I loved) and installed "the best money could buy" plastic pitch. Case in point.... my knees hurt after 2 hours of running on that turf field. They have never hurt on grass nor do they hurt when I'm playing on a grass field.

Turf blows, but it sure looks nice in the spring among all the dead yellow stuff.

[ExiledRed]

Woah woah woah.... hold your horses right there.... Ottawa might suck but it is by no means the coldest capital city in the world. Ever spent a winter in Regina, Sask? I've lived there far too long (I was born there, whats your excuse?). There is nay a colder place.

What's Regina the capital of? Saskatchewania?

[ensco]

Woah woah woah.... hold your horses right there.... Ottawa might suck but it is by no means the coldest capital city in the world. Ever spent a winter in Regina, Sask? I've lived there far too long (I was born there, whats your excuse?). There is nay a colder place.

I tend to reflexively admire anyone who grew up on the prairies. Any of Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton...these places get so cold, there are days that your eyeballs feel like they're about to freeze after about 30 seconds of exposure. It's beyond amazing to me that these places were ever settled, let alone thrived.

They're all far colder than Ottawa or Montreal.

[TFC~Vatreni]

:drum:"All we are saaaayinnnnnng... is give us some graaaaaassssssss!":drum:

[Boudge]

^+1 I like this one

[olegunnar]

small sample size but he might have a point.
On the road we average 2.25 goals a game (9 goals in 4 games)....at home, less than a goal a game (6 goals in 7 games).

maybe when we played boot and chase and had crappier players it wasn't as obvious, but now it seems like we play better on grass.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

The home of Ottawa Fury......it's a beautiful grass surface.
BTW...Ottawa is the coldest capital city in the world.
Um, what? I can't imagine Ottawa is colder than, for instance, Stockholm, Reyjkavik (or however you spell it, I can't be bothered to look it up) or Helsinki.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Wht concerns me about this, is that DeRo might face a fine or other form of discipline. It's no secret that players aren't allowed to denounce the turf publicly.

As a supporter of the team, I am not having it, if DeRo is disciplined over this.

I doubt the team would fine or discipline DeRo over his coments, maybe a slight talking too///the team management knows the surface bites..but in the end it all comes down to TO city council if they want grass or not.

[trane]

Um, what? I can't imagine Ottawa is colder than, for instance, Stockholm, Reyjkavik (or however you spell it, I can't be bothered to look it up) or Helsinki.


Ottawa is colder then Stockholm in the winter, I have not seen the averages, but southern Sweden in general is not quite as cold as Toronto. Still very cold and sub 0 weather in the winter, but a bit milder then us. However, they have another problem which is much less light then us in the winter, their days are very short in the winter months.

[ExiledRed]

I doubt the team would fine or discipline DeRo over his coments, maybe a slight talking too///the team management knows the surface bites..but in the end it all comes down to TO city council if they want grass or not.

Since season one, the players have been under contract not to talk badly about the turf.

Most players who have said anything bad about the turf, pertaining to their injuries or whatever have been traded away rather quickly. This is not to say they were traded because they spoke out, but highlights that the turf may have had something to do with the trade.

Neither Ronnie O Brien's or Esky's trade were expected. Esky actually blamed an injury on the turf and then..... gone.

[Yohan]

lol. does this mean DeRo is getting out soon?

[Blizzard]

Um, what? I can't imagine Ottawa is colder than, for instance, Stockholm, Reyjkavik (or however you spell it, I can't be bothered to look it up) or Helsinki.

According to "about.com":

Ulaan-Baatar (Mongolia) 29.7°F/-1.3°C
Astana (Kazakhstan) unavailable
Moscow (Russia) 39.4°F/4.1°C
Helsinki (Finland) 40.1°F/4.5°C
Reykjavik (Iceland) 40.3°F/4.6°C
Tallin (Estonia) 40.6°F/4.8°C
Ottawa (Canada) 41.9°F/5.5°C
http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/coldcapital.htm


A question for Davenport! When do they open the Fury's field for play? We'd want to be on the surface by late March at the latest unless we want to look at a very long road trip to start the season.

[Beach_Red]

Neither Ronnie O Brien's or Esky's trade were expected. Esky actually blamed an injury on the turf and then..... gone.

Another way to look at this is that players' wishes are being too easily accomodated.

Maybe deals are being made agents that will show up later, who knows?

[Shep]

Also worth mentioning (if it hasn't been already) that both Brennan and Barret bring up the turf in their post-game interviews.

And they were saved and are available on TFC TV. So the MLSE mustn't be too concerned about quashing the talk.

[drewski]

Um, what? I can't imagine Ottawa is colder than, for instance, Stockholm, Reyjkavik (or however you spell it, I can't be bothered to look it up) or Helsinki.]\

their lows aren't that low (and highs aren't that high) because their temperature are moderated by the atlantic and gulf stream.

ottawa doesn't have that moderating force so its both colder in the winter and hotten in the summer

but as blizzard pointed out, there are colder cities, both yearly and monthly

[Fort York Redcoat]

The last outburst from both Brennan and DeRo got somebody fired...

[GhostPK]

What's Regina the capital of? Saskatchewania?

Yes, Regina is the Capital of Sask.


I tend to reflexively admire anyone who grew up on the prairies. Any of Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton...these places get so cold, there are days that your eyeballs feel like they're about to freeze after about 30 seconds of exposure. It's beyond amazing to me that these places were ever settled, let alone thrived.

They're all far colder than Ottawa or Montreal.

Regina was build in the middle of no where. No trees, no water, nothing but a giant pile of buffalo bones.


]\

their lows aren't that low (and highs aren't that high) because their temperature are moderated by the atlantic and gulf stream.

ottawa doesn't have that moderating forceso its both colder in the winter and hotten in the summer

but as blizzard pointed out, there are colder cities, both yearly and monthly

Over the last few winters, Regina has had days of being the coldest place in the world (including Antarctica). This means temperatures of -50 degrees C, factor in the average wind of 25km/h (light breeze). I doubt Ottawa compares. In the summer, Regina can reach +38 to +40 degrees C. Factor in the humidity and you start to get the feeling of what hell would be like.

Having said all that.... WE WANT GRASS!:scarf::canada:

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Since season one, the players have been under contract not to talk badly about the turf.

Most players who have said anything bad about the turf, pertaining to their injuries or whatever have been traded away rather quickly. This is not to say they were traded because they spoke out, but highlights that the turf may have had something to do with the trade.

Neither Ronnie O Brien's or Esky's trade were expected. Esky actually blamed an injury on the turf and then..... gone.


But they wouldnt touch DeRo there would be Mutiny by MOST fans..:scarf:

[ExiledRed]

Yes, Regina is the Capital of Sask.

My point was that Regina is not the capital of a country, which was what Davenport meant.

[ExiledRed]

But they wouldnt touch DeRo there would be Mutiny by MOST fans..:scarf:

Really? or would there simply be a many faceted debate on the validity of DeRo's comments, and MLSE's right to discipline him for them?

[Beach_Red]

Really? or would there simply be a many faceted debate on the validity of DeRo's comments, and MLSE's right to discipline him for them?


Well, if there was going to be disciplne it would have happened by now, wouldn't it? So all we really have is the speculation. Which can be fun, sure, but which we shouldn't take too seriously.

[ExiledRed]

Also worth mentioning (if it hasn't been already) that both Brennan and Barret bring up the turf in their post-game interviews.

And they were saved and are available on TFC TV. So the MLSE mustn't be too concerned about quashing the talk.

What happened to DeRo's post game interview?

Brennan and Barrett put it too politely for my taste.

[ExiledRed]

Well, if there was going to be disciplne it would have happened by now, wouldn't it?

I don't know would it?

Would we hear about it?

I'm not sure if you realised this already, but this board is built on speculation.

[Shep]

What happened to DeRo's post game interview?

Brennan and Barrett put it too politely for my taste.


I'm not sure if he had one, other than the soundbite before he went in. They might have just avoided him in the dressing room, or skipped him as they had met him on the way down.. or maybe he was just not into it and knew he would start ranting so stayed away from the camera.

They did put it politely, but it was nice to hear them echo his thoughts if even just a wee bit.

[Beach_Red]

I don't know would it?

Would we hear about it?

I'm not sure if you realised this already, but this board is built on speculation.

Yeah, I like the speculation, it can be fun. And speculating on stuff we'll never actually hear about takes it to a whole new level.

We seem to think this comment about the turf would somehow be something MLSE doesn't want talked about. Has anyone ever been disciplined for speaking out against it? Players have been traded away, but that's something the players would have wanted - so they wouldn't have to play on the turf anymore. That's not punishment, it's reward.

DeRo is one of the few who might see being traded to San Jose right now as punishment.

[ExiledRed]

Yeah, I like the speculation, it can be fun. And speculating on stuff we'll never actually hear about takes it to a whole new level.

We seem to think this comment about the turf would somehow be something MLSE doesn't want talked about. Has anyone ever been disciplined for speaking out against it? Players have been traded away, but that's something the players would have wanted - so they wouldn't have to play on the turf anymore. That's not punishment, it's reward.

DeRo is one of the few who might see being traded to San Jose right now as punishment.

In season one it was a given fact that players were not allowed to dis the turf to journalists. Ronnie was very reluctant to comment on the turf despite the fact that he despised it and blamed his difficulty in recovering from his knee injury on it.

Ronnie wasn't traded for making comments, but it's quite obvious he didn't want to play on it any more.

Colin Samuel is also known to have called the surface 'unofficially, fucking shit' implying that he was not allowed to officially say that.

[Suds]

Colin Samuel is also known to have called the surface 'unofficially, fucking shit' implying that he was not allowed to officially say that.

Are you telling me that if I put 'unofficially' in front of what I'm saying I'm not 'officially' saying it????

Man, I can't wait to get to the office tomorrow. Some unofficial douchebag is going to hear he's unofficially full of shit!! ;) I can see my days are going to be much more stress free now. :D

...

Players hate it and it affects the on-field product MLSE is selling us. MLSE needs to lobby City Hall more effectively & pony up the $$ to get this done.

[Shep]

Yeah I think we can be pretty sure they won't be disciplining anyone for talking about the turf...

seeing as how they just now did a small almost-spot on it during the Toronto FC Today tv show on Gol... they had Lee even asking Dwayne about it, and referring back to it a few times.

Good show btw!

[ensco]

We seem to think this comment about the turf would somehow be something MLSE doesn't want talked about. Has anyone ever been disciplined for speaking out against it? Players have been traded away, but that's something the players would have wanted - so they wouldn't have to play on the turf anymore. That's not punishment, it's reward.



I have a question. Were you on these boards in 2007?

The way I remember it, any discussion of turf was smacked down hard. These boards ran at least 10 to 1 in favor of the turf. It was the way of the future, and anyone who didn't understand that was an idiot. I thought, seriously, that there were posters on here who were fieldturf employees, so vociferous was their denounciation of anyone who dared to question this orthodoxy.

There was a point of view I had, and have, a lot of time for - that complaining about fieldturf was unfair, it was what was required to get BMO and TFC. This argument becomes less relevant with each passing day.

But the TFC players simply would not answer questions about fieldturf. Were they under orders? Who knows? But the Esky trade looked awfully funny at the time.

It was Beckham who dared to speak out against fieldturf first. We owe him for that. He had the stature to do it. So does DeRo, btw

[grimm]

Victoria Park in Brampton has a beautiful grass pitch, LOL!

[MG42]

I have a question. Were you on these boards in 2007?

The way I remember it, any discussion of turf was smacked down hard. These boards ran at least 10 to 1 in favor of the turf. It was the way of the future, and anyone who didn't understand that was an idiot. I thought, seriously, that there were posters on here who were fieldturf employees, so vociferous was their denounciation of anyone who dared to question this orthodoxy.

There was a point of view I had, and have, a lot of time for - that complaining about fieldturf was unfair, it was what was required to get BMO and TFC. This argument becomes less relevant with each passing day.

But the TFC players simply would not answer questions about fieldturf. Were they under orders? Who knows? But the Esky trade looked awfully funny at the time.

It was Beckham who dared to speak out against fieldturf first. We owe him for that. He had the stature to do it. So does DeRo, btw

That's the way I remember it too.

[PRB]

I'm new around here and haven't read the entire topic so apologies if it has been covered but I have one question..

Why do they not use grass? I am assuming their is a reason to go with the dreaded turf stuff?

[nascarguy]

:drum:"All we are saaaayinnnnnng... is give us some graaaaaassssssss!":drum:
no fuck no

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

here is the major problem. TFC DOES NOT OWN BMO FIELD, the City of Toronto own it


and that will always be a major sticking point....MLSE should just buy the stadium then lay grass and make expansion happen..

[MG42]

and that will always be a major sticking point....MLSE should just buy the stadium then lay grass and make expansion happen..

I don't think the city would sell part of Exhibition Place to MLSE

[Eastend]

I'm new around here and haven't read the entire topic so apologies if it has been covered but I have one question..

Why do they not use grass? I am assuming their is a reason to go with the dreaded turf stuff?


BMO is owned by the city of Toronto. All levels of government paid for it with the stipulation that it had to also serve the community as well as our National Team, and TFC. Therefore, turf is needed so that a bubble is put over the pitch in the winter and that community groups can use it during the summer when TFC is not using it.

[JDG]

I'm new around here and haven't read the entire topic so apologies if it has been covered but I have one question..

Why do they not use grass? I am assuming their is a reason to go with the dreaded turf stuff?

Government money used to build the stadium came with a stipulation that the facility be used year round for community use. Only turf could meet that requirement.

[boban]

BMO is owned by the city of Toronto. All levels of government paid for it with the stipulation that it had to also serve the community as well as our National Team, and TFC. Therefore, turf is needed so that a bubble is put over the pitch in the winter and that community groups can use it during the summer when TFC is not using it.

:violin::violin::violin::violin:

[Ossington Mental Youth]

:violin::violin::violin::violin:

yeah its nonsense but ya cant underplay how much pull local government has and if they dont want to conceed, they wont and theres not a damn thing MLSE can do about it

[ExiledRed]

BMO is owned by the city of Toronto. All levels of government paid for it with the stipulation that it had to also serve the community as well as our National Team, and TFC. Therefore, turf is needed so that a bubble is put over the pitch in the winter and that community groups can use it during the summer when TFC is not using it.

yes, yes, we understand the logic, you're not providing us with new or useful information. Tell me, what happens when all that community use makes the original plan untenable?

too bad? Pretend the problem doesn't exist?

TFC can't share grass or turf with the community because neither is durable enough to sustain the community use.

The community use has to stop or TFC and the CMNT have to move, it's really as simple as that, other FIFA 2 star facilities don't get the amount of year long, round the clock abuse that BMO gets, and sooner or later it's going to officially be a non compliant surface.

[ExiledRed]

yeah its nonsense but ya cant underplay how much pull local government has and if they dont want to conceed, they wont and theres not a damn thing MLSE can do about it

If TFC can't play in the stadium, it kind of loses it's purpose. The city will give in if it's faced with losing the revenue from TFC, and sooner or later TFC will have to play somewhere else. FIFA, MLS, players unions and insurance companies will eventually see to that, if the surface is not compliant.

[Stryker]

When I first heard DeRo's comments on the turf I was pretty shocked and thought he was gonna catch flak for it. Now a couple of the other players have echoed his sentiments about it this week, the turf was mentioned numerous times on the primier of TFC Today and the forums are abuzz on the issue.
I think it's fair to assume MLSE might be trying to apply a little pressure to city hall.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

^ DeRo's comments didn't really surprise me; he's been pretty vocal about the turf since he first played on it as a member of Houston in May of 2007. Given his status on TFC, DeRo is the perfect player to speak up on this issue. While guys like Esky and Ronnie O were expendable, DeRo is the star player and centre of attention on our team. Management would be insane to trade DeRo for being too outspoken, and I think DeRo recognises this.

[Stryker]

If they did get rid of DeRo over the this turf thing I'd be so done with this team.

[prizby]

time to hope that we get world cup hosting rights soooooon...then they can build TFC a grass stadium :)

[Fort York Redcoat]

yes, yes, we understand the logic, you're not providing us with new or useful information. Tell me, what happens when all that community use makes the original plan untenable?

too bad? Pretend the problem doesn't exist?

TFC can't share grass or turf with the community because neither is durable enough to sustain the community use.

The community use has to stop or TFC and the CMNT have to move, it's really as simple as that, other FIFA 2 star facilities don't get the amount of year long, round the clock abuse that BMO gets, and sooner or later it's going to officially be a non compliant surface.

I agree on the durability point but sadly I think it more attractive to bureaucrats involved to replace turf with turf. It sounds like less work than changing who is supposed to use the stadium. The National team can, have and would play elsewhere. This, to me, sounds likely as to why grass is taking so long.

[ensco]

At the risk of repeating myself (I guess why not, everyone else does! :o)...

If the bureaucrats have a true, legitimate alternative to BMO, they can be persuaded given their financial interest in the team. All Pantalone ever said was that the Lakeshore facility wouldn't be central enough, and it's tough to disagree.

So the only variables are (i) how much money does it take, and (ii) MLSE is willing to pay it?

MLSE is in for only $10 million. I'll bet anybody that, by the end of this year, they'll have made back back their entire investment. They own the team for free. But now it's decision time.

Hear's my real fear. MLSE must have the same concerns that we all do about the long-term viability of MLS. These franchises in Chicago, Dallas, Colorado, playing in brand new, empty stadiums, with all the brave talk and inflated attendance stats, they all have a whiff of the Coyotes about them.

So putting aside any bureaucrats natural inclination to do nothing (remember the catalyst for BMO was the U 20s in 2007, there is no similar catalyst on the horizon), there is actually possibly a good business reason for MLSE to jawbone and wait.

But that's risky too. MLSE face an ever-growing risk that, while they wait, the "specialness" of TFC and BMO erodes bit by bit, and they wake up one day with ... nothing.

[drewski]

yes, yes, we understand the logic, you're not providing us with new or useful information. Tell me, what happens when all that community use makes the original plan untenable?

they weren't trying to add anything new or useful. just answering a question about why they don't use grass currently

[Fort York Redcoat]

At the risk of repeating myself (I guess why not, everyone else does! :o)...

If the bureaucrats have a true, legitimate alternative to BMO, they can be persuaded given their financial interest in the team. All Pantalone ever said was that the Lakeshore facility wouldn't be central enough, and it's tough to disagree.

So the only variables are (i) how much money does it take, and (ii) MLSE is willing to pay it?

MLSE is in for only $10 million. I'll bet anybody that, by the end of this year, they'll have made back back their entire investment. They own the team for free. But now it's decision time.

Hear's my real fear. MLSE must have the same concerns that we all do about the long-term viability of MLS. These franchises in Chicago, Dallas, Colorado, playing in brand new, empty stadiums, with all the brave talk and inflated attendance stats, they all have a whiff of the Coyotes about them.

So putting aside any bureaucrats natural inclination to do nothing (remember the catalyst for BMO was the U 20s in 2007, there is no similar catalyst on the horizon), there is actually possibly a good business reason for MLSE to jawbone and wait.

But that's risky too. MLSE face an ever-growing risk that, while they wait, the "specialness" of TFC and BMO erodes bit by bit, and they wake up one day with ... nothing.

Agreed that no business wants to deal with a loss but the risk is little more than the risk of the Marlies failure. Owning a team for free then selling a stadium to the city if it failed wouldn't kill MLSE. Anyway, we're agreeing it's a risk, the level of risk is to be decided for those probably more conservative than we.

[drewski]

Agreed that no business wants to deal with a loss but the risk is little more than the risk of the Marlies failure. Owning a team for free then selling a stadium to the city if it failed wouldn't kill MLSE. Anyway, we're agreeing it's a risk, the level of risk is to be decided for those probably more conservative than we.


good point.

the OTPP might have been less risk averse a year or two ago. but since they lost a TON of money when stock prices took a nose dive, I imagine they told MLSE to reign in costs

[Oldtimer]

MLSE is in for only $10 million. I'll bet anybody that, by the end of this year, they'll have made back back their entire investment. They own the team for free. But now it's decision time.


I'm pretty sure they've already made back their investment, years ahead of initial projections.

[Kaz]

I'm just going to add this in again,
Polytan Ligaturf is used in another stadium, and it survived having a temp grass pitch installed on top of that, and still was re certified. And it's designed specifically for Football. Rather then Gridiron.

It may be a matter of Replacing the Fieldturf with Polytan Ligaturf, which is more used internationally, and seems to be more durable then FieldTurf.

The Turf looks horrible right now, it needs to be replaced with something, and I think we've shown that FieldTurf can't stand the punishment so lets look at other options.

Grass is Ideal but not practical for what BMO is used for.

[ExiledRed]

I'm just going to add this in again,
Polytan Ligaturf is used in another stadium, and it survived having a temp grass pitch installed on top of that, and still was re certified. And it's designed specifically for Football. Rather then Gridiron.

It may be a matter of Replacing the Fieldturf with Polytan Ligaturf, which is more used internationally, and seems to be more durable then FieldTurf.

The Turf looks horrible right now, it needs to be replaced with something, and I think we've shown that FieldTurf can't stand the punishment so lets look at other options.

Grass is Ideal but not practical for what BMO is used for.

Other than Salzburg, which teams use it?

If it's so great why did they lay grass on top of it? Did a german bundesliga team come for a friendly?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

time to hope that we get world cup hosting rights soooooon...then they can build TFC a grass stadium :)


Canada has NO Chance of hosting a world cup...the best we can hope for is another U20-U16 or Concacaf Gold cup. There are more deserving countries that have played the game longer that should be considered hosts before Canada...Scotland,Portugal,Holland,Russia, just to name a
few..Its up to city council to get grass in, and that seems unlikely in the
near future.

[Kaz]

Other than Salzburg, which teams use it?

If it's so great why did they lay grass on top of it? Did a german bundesliga team come for a friendly?
it was for the Euro League I think they wanted everything to be equal footing, so Salzburg laid grass for those games and then removed when Bundesliga started up again.

Salzburg maybe the only Major Euro Pitch with it.
you can see it first hand in Toronto actually at Varsity Stadium.

Stade de Suisse in Bern
Stade La Maladiere in Neushatel (Switzerland)

there are several others all smaller clubs
http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/developing/pitchequipment/footballturf/star=2/index.html

Though of note Everton's Training Field and FC Bayern Munich Training Field use it.

That being said Field Turf is used heavily in Scandinavia, and is also at Gillette and Qwest, and neither side seems to have any major issues with it.
BMO's turf is still with in two star levels which means the issues we are seeing on the field is a psycholgical effect of the players I think more then anything else.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yes, yes, we understand the logic, you're not providing us with new or useful information. Tell me, what happens when all that community use makes the original plan untenable?

too bad? Pretend the problem doesn't exist?

TFC can't share grass or turf with the community because neither is durable enough to sustain the community use.

The community use has to stop or TFC and the CMNT have to move, it's really as simple as that, other FIFA 2 star facilities don't get the amount of year long, round the clock abuse that BMO gets, and sooner or later it's going to officially be a non compliant surface.


If TFC can't play in the stadium, it kind of loses it's purpose. The city will give in if it's faced with losing the revenue from TFC, and sooner or later TFC will have to play somewhere else. FIFA, MLS, players unions and insurance companies will eventually see to that, if the surface is not compliant.

definitely some sound logic here and i definitely agree, im only suggesting that its going to take a bit longer than people want, even if TFC said we are going to leave they would have to stick around another season or two while they finagle an area for their stadium (god willing itd be downtown or close by) and build it.

[GhostPK]

and to sum up this entire thread into one point...

WE WANT/NEED GRASS!