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druid
05-14-2009, 01:10 AM
So we've had someone else at the helm for a few games and I'm interested in hearing how the pro-Carver crowd view things now.

Have you had a change of heart?

Cashcleaner
05-14-2009, 01:34 AM
Cummins is doing great work with the club. I don't have any problem saying that. Absolutely I was pro-Carver for much of his time here. As it turns out Cummins is pretty good at coaching as well. Let's give him a few more games before making up our minds completely, though.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-14-2009, 01:37 AM
Cummins is doing great work with the club. I don't have any problem saying that. Absolutely I was pro-Carver for much of his time here. As it turns out Cummins is pretty good at coaching as well. Let's give him a few more games before making up our minds completely, though.


cosign

Shakes McQueen
05-14-2009, 04:48 AM
Cummins is doing great work with the club. I don't have any problem saying that. Absolutely I was pro-Carver for much of his time here. As it turns out Cummins is pretty good at coaching as well. Let's give him a few more games before making up our minds completely, though.

Yep. But thanks for framing the people who thought Carver was a decent coach as "apologists" though. Always nice to have a civil discussion.

- Scott

grimm
05-14-2009, 05:11 AM
Silly topic. Pay your membership fee.

FluSH
05-14-2009, 05:39 AM
So we've had someone else at the helm for a few games and I'm interested in hearing how the pro-Carver crowd view things now.

Have you had a change of heart?


I was cheering for Middlesborough... that should say something.

Shep
05-14-2009, 05:48 AM
So we've had someone else at the helm for a few games and I'm interested in hearing how the pro-Carver crowd view things now.

Have you had a change of heart?

I was pro-Carver, and I don't really understand the question... change of heart? No, I still appreciate what he brought. Respect the man.

What does that have to do with Cummins?

I'd say I'm pro-Cummins too if you'd like. He's doing an amazing job.

To be honest I stand behind anyone who does a decent job and has heart for the club. But I'm not sure what you're getting at with this thread, was there a pro-Carver vs pro-Cummins war going on? Never that I saw, it was an easy transition.

The Kingpin
05-14-2009, 05:51 AM
I was cheering for Middlesborough... that should say something.

It certainly does.

drewski
05-14-2009, 06:17 AM
just because somebody is pro-Carver doesn't mean they are anti-Cummins

Jack
05-14-2009, 06:30 AM
What does being pro-Carver have to do with how we feel about Cummins?

Carver is gone. He's not the coach anymore. I am focused on who is here and that is Cummins. We are doing well, so that is very satisfying and it appears Cummins is doing a good job.

I'm not going to use that as a reason to shit on Carver, though.

Flipityflu
05-14-2009, 06:35 AM
to be honest, the thought doesn't enter my mind. results now is the only thing that matters, not results in the past.

jabbronies
05-14-2009, 07:02 AM
I'm was pro-Carver for the time that he was here. Now that he is not here I have no reason to focus on him. It's called moving on.

drewski
05-14-2009, 07:12 AM
I'm was pro-Carver for the time that he was here. Now that he is not here I have no reason to focus on him. It's called moving on.

+1

i could be wrong but the one's who keep bringing him up seem to be the anti-Carver crew

maninb
05-14-2009, 07:16 AM
Silly topic...let's just move on and enjoy the run....

Beach_Red
05-14-2009, 07:34 AM
It is time to move on. If there is anything to talk about here it might be the question we had since the beginning of the year - is this roster good enough?

Inswingingwingman
05-14-2009, 07:37 AM
I supported Carver. (That is past tense for the dense.)

I support Cummings. (That is present tense, enough said.)

I support the team. (That's a fact, Jack.)

drewski
05-14-2009, 07:45 AM
I supported Carver. (That is past tense for the dense.)

I support Cummings. (That is present tense, enough said.)

I support the team. (That's a fact, Jack.)


a good show of support would be to know his name is Cummins, not Cummings :p

Detroit_TFC
05-14-2009, 07:48 AM
I supported Carver. (That is past tense for the dense.)

I support Cummings. (That is present tense, enough said.)

I support the team. (That's a fact, Jack.)

+1

Wasn't Carver responsible for bringing in Cummins?
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/423878

So it's not like Cummins is a repudiation of Carver, just a different temperment, maybe a little more willing to be experimental.

Fort York Redcoat
05-14-2009, 08:16 AM
An "I told you so" thread.

Great way to celebrate a win, druid.

druid
05-14-2009, 08:49 AM
Yep. But thanks for framing the people who thought Carver was a decent coach as "apologists" though. Always nice to have a civil discussion.

- Scott

Fair point. I was just a wee bit under the influence when I posted and should have come up with a better thread title.

Unfortunately I can't seem to edit the thread title now but if anyone can tell me how to change it, I'll be happy to. If not and the moderators are reading and feeling inclined it could be changed to:

'Carver Backers'

druid
05-14-2009, 08:54 AM
What does being pro-Carver have to do with how we feel about Cummins?

Carver is gone. He's not the coach anymore. I am focused on who is here and that is Cummins. We are doing well, so that is very satisfying and it appears Cummins is doing a good job.

I'm not going to use that as a reason to shit on Carver, though.

In my mind the question does not require a comparison of Carver and Cummins.

It also is not necessary to "shit on" someone to provide an honest footballing appraisal, although that does happen to.

fetajr
05-14-2009, 09:06 AM
I was never a fan of the 1 mile throw-in play TFC was constantly running under Carver...now they do it 1 in every 3 offensive throw in's...that and b/c of the improved records has me concluding that Cummins is the better option..,.that is until Mo writes a big cheque and hires Carlos Bianchi (hahaha..i know i'm dreaming)
http://sigasiga.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bianchi-370x270.jpg

trane
05-14-2009, 10:04 AM
The whole Pro/Anti a coach or player is BS. You support your team, and its players and coaches, but you you watch their play, tactics and performance and comment in a reasonable manner. That does not make you ani or pro an idividual. For explae I am pro Wynne I want him to be the best RB he can be, I am not against him by saying he should become a better positional tactical player, and develop better technique.

Stryker
05-14-2009, 10:10 AM
I was a huge fan of Carver while he was here and while I was still behind him it didn't take a soccer genius to see that he was making poor tactical decissions with his formations, line ups and subs.
What was this thread about again? Druid patting himself on the back?

Hitcho
05-14-2009, 10:12 AM
There was never any question of having to support Carver over Cummins though, so what's to apologise for? While Carver was here he had a big fan base. Unsurprisingly, after he suddenly left those fans are now supporting the next TFC coach.

What did you expect - everyone who was a fan of Carver to become tunrcoats and not support whoever replaced him? Odd post, even if you rephrase the thread title.

What you shoud have been posting on was "Isn't it great that the team is doing well after just having to replace it's head coach out of the blue". Now that, I am totally down with!! :D:D:D

Derko
05-14-2009, 10:15 AM
So we've had someone else at the helm for a few games and I'm interested in hearing how the pro-Carver crowd view things now.

Have you had a change of heart?

Always supported Carver when he was at the helm, as now I support Cummins, but isn't it obvious that if a change of system and a change of manager is bringing better results, I would be pleased.
No need to be condescending!!

:scarf::drinking::canada:

Roogsy
05-14-2009, 10:18 AM
What does being pro-Carver have to do with how we feel about Cummins?

Carver is gone. He's not the coach anymore. I am focused on who is here and that is Cummins. We are doing well, so that is very satisfying and it appears Cummins is doing a good job.

I'm not going to use that as a reason to shit on Carver, though.

QFFT


For real people... :rolleyes:

scooter
05-14-2009, 10:28 AM
[quote=Derko;519081]Always supported Carver when he was at the helm, as now I support Cummins, but isn't it obvious that if a change of system and a change of manager is bringing better results, I would be pleased.
No need to be condescending!!

agreed but:
cummins inherited what carver helped build and dont forget the master of the game mo
its a combination of a lot of things comming together and the guys are just starting to gel and get used to each other -- give them another month and watch out
yes finishing is a problem but a least we are pounding balls at the net

T_Mizz
05-14-2009, 11:10 AM
I don't think this thread is all too vicious, I think the wording is horrendous, and it does seem to target people which is never good, but... oh I can't remember wher I was going with this:D
But seriously I was a Carver supporter much like I am a Cummins supporter, much like I'm a TFC supporter. What I equate the whole Cummins and Carver thing to is how I was a Lombardo supporter and am now a DeRo supporter, one was able to come in and do a job much better but once the first guy leaves I'm not going to dwell on it.:scarf:

rocker
05-14-2009, 11:14 AM
I liked Carver, I like the guy he hired: Cummins.

But if you want to give credit to Cummins, then you're backhandedly giving credit to Mo Johnston too for giving Cummins the tools. It's not like Cummins is working his magic on a bunch of stiffs.

bhoybobby
05-14-2009, 12:29 PM
I liked Carver, I like the guy he hired: Cummins.

But if you want to give credit to Cummins, then you're backhandedly giving credit to Mo Johnston too for giving Cummins the tools. It's not like Cummins is working his magic on a bunch of stiffs.


I'd give Mo the back of my hand anytime.

Actually, if we make the play-offs, he'll get all due credit from me.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-14-2009, 04:20 PM
So we've had someone else at the helm for a few games and I'm interested in hearing how the pro-Carver crowd view things now.

Have you had a change of heart?


No i would still prefer JC here..nothing against Cummins and the job he as done to this point...JC left here under questionable circumstances ..i would have liked to seen him finish up the job here...we would still have the same record.

trane
05-14-2009, 05:54 PM
^ You would prefer JC why? We have not lost a game since Cummins took over, and the team has played the best football is has ever played over a good number of games, but you would prefer JC? Dude you cannot be serious.

marquis
05-14-2009, 08:01 PM
It's night and day between Carver and Cummins. Cummins is a football coach, Carver was absolutely clueless - he didn't have any basic understanding of footbal tactics.
We would've made the playoffs easily last year with Cummins in charge. And we wouldn't have allowed a submediocre team like Mtl to win the Can. Championship.

T_Mizz
05-14-2009, 09:34 PM
No i would still prefer JC here..nothing against Cummins and the job he as done to this point...JC left here under questionable circumstances ..i would have liked to seen him finish up the job here...we would still have the same record.
That's questionable to say the least, if Carver was still in charge we might not be playing a 4-3-3 which is a big part of our turnaround

Kevvv
05-14-2009, 09:49 PM
Out of curiousity, when will people stop discussing Carver? When he returns? When Cummins leaves? When we make the playoffs? Win the cup? When the Leafs win the cup? Granted it's only been a few weeks, but I don't see the merits of further discussing Cummin's actual record and potential record this year against Carver's past performance and possible performance.

He's gone, a lot of people miss him for any number of reasons, and some are glad to see him go. Our record under CC is better than what is was under JC, none of us know for certain if Carver would have done better or worse - it's unknowable. I think the TSX has also strengthened since JC left, but no-one can prove it would be the same if he was still here.

druid
05-14-2009, 10:50 PM
Out of curiousity, when will people stop discussing Carver?


I, for one, hope to be discussing Carver for many years to come. He was the second man to led TFC from the touchline and seemed like a nice guy.

And I'm not really sure why we should stop. Sure, Cummins is the man at the moment but I think most of us can manage two subjects at once.

Kevvv
05-15-2009, 12:40 AM
Eskandarian was a nice guy who scored in our third win. He seemed decent too.

druid
05-15-2009, 12:52 AM
Eskandarian was a nice guy who scored in our third win. He seemed decent too.

Head coach for a season vs a six appearance player? Not quite a level comparison in my mind but if you want to start the thread it's fine by me. It is a dicussion forum after all.

nascarguy
05-15-2009, 12:56 AM
I liked Carver, I like the guy he hired: Cummins.

But if you want to give credit to Cummins, then you're backhandedly giving credit to Mo Johnston too for giving Cummins the tools. It's not like Cummins is working his magic on a bunch of stiffs.
u got that right I'm just waiting for us to lose 1 to 3 games in a row and see all the hater come out. :hulk::prrr: