Is Wynne stagnating?

[Torcida]

We all know that Wynne has the skillset to become a very good player but to me it doesn't seem that he is developing into a better player. Has he hit his prime already? Last year, I think he was one of our best players, but this year he has been one of our worst, quite similar to Mo Edu from Season 1 to season 2.

So, what does everyone think, is Wynne just slumping or is he not developing into the player we all hoped he could be?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I wouldnt say he is slumping but i dont see him becoming the premier league player people think he is. I do think he has some work to do but is still a decent player

[Don Julio]

Edu was pretty good in season 1.

Take away the pens and Wynne's been alright.. I thought he improved a lot over the last 10 games last year. This year has seen a lot of change and it's not fair to judge Marvell yet. Like to see more of him on the wing, though.

[Calvin]

wynne was not good today. but has been great this year.

[Ultra & Proud]

Not sure how much he can improve. He has pace and that's about it really. His crossing has been dreadful since season 1 and his positional play hasn't improved much either. The only real progression I see is that he's added handballs to his repetoire to go with the shite crosses. Almost time to put Nana in there full time. Hopefully O,Neil at Villa still has the hots for him come July so we can get some $$$ for him.

[GabrielHurl]

wynne was not good today. but has been great this year.

He only played 16 minutes - and he was playing up front :rolleyes:

[Fort York Redcoat]

Most of his weak points are correctable. He can go to Beck's crossing school. Take positioning cues from Serioux and work on his posture in the box. That would put him in a better position than ever before.

[jwfm1985]

You know he played striker last night right? I think he has played well this year. Certainly not going to Europe yet, but maybe in a year or two

[rocker]

i always thought part of Wynne's "positioning problem" that people speak of is not an inherent inability to understand positioning or read the play, but a recognition that he can get back with his speed. He doesn't stick to his man or stay back cuz he knows he can beat just about anybody if they play the ball out wide. So he cheats.
Obviously as he gets older and loses a step (prob not for 5-6 years tho) he'll need to stop doing that.

His talent is great physicality and determination (almost nobody can go into a battle with him and come away with the ball) and his speed.

I think he's fine for MLS ... nothing wrong with that. If in 10 years he's been a career MLSer, that's fine...

[Pachuco]

The man was injured in the first few minutes of the game and came off hurt. In return he gets a thread to shit on him.

Wynne's been one of the worst? Come on. If anyone deserves a thread like this it's Jimmy Brennan. Absolutely, by far, the worst defender/distributor of the ball on this team. For some reason though, Brennan gets all the backing in the world because he's passionate, Canadian and he's our captain.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

The man was injured in the first few minutes of the game and came off hurt. In return he gets a thread to shit on him.

Wynne's been one of the worst? Come on. If anyone deserves a thread like this it's Jimmy Brennan. Absolutely, by far, the worst defender/distributor of the ball on this team. For some reason though, Brennan gets all the backing in the world because he's passionate, Canadian and he's our captain.


very true and i love Jummy

[ExiledRed]

Most of his weak points are correctable. He can go to Beck's crossing school. Take positioning cues from Serioux and work on his posture in the box. That would put him in a better position than ever before.

There is no crossing school, it was a joke article.

Aside from that. I've long wondered how Marvell would perform up front given his speed and power. His touch is usually poor though, and I expect he'd miss more than his share of sitters too.

[__wowza]

The man was injured in the first few minutes of the game and came off hurt. In return he gets a thread to shit on him.

Wynne's been one of the worst? Come on. If anyone deserves a thread like this it's Jimmy Brennan. Absolutely, by far, the worst defender/distributor of the ball on this team. For some reason though, Brennan gets all the backing in the world because he's passionate, Canadian and he's our captain.


Come on now, leave the yellowcard machine alone, not to mention his magniciant hand balls!!

[Fort York Redcoat]

i always thought part of Wynne's "positioning problem" that people speak of is not an inherent inability to understand positioning or read the play, but a recognition that he can get back with his speed. He doesn't stick to his man or stay back cuz he knows he can beat just about anybody if they play the ball out wide. So he cheats.


Agreed and he's cheating without the dividends players usually get from it. He should work on that positioning and try stripping players of the ball. The speed will work that much more for him.


The man was injured in the first few minutes of the game and came off hurt. In return he gets a thread to shit on him.

Wynne's been one of the worst? Come on. If anyone deserves a thread like this it's Jimmy Brennan. Absolutely, by far, the worst defender/distributor of the ball on this team. For some reason though, Brennan gets all the backing in the world because he's passionate, Canadian and he's our captain.

I think the fact Wynne's such an explosive player with the ball that many expect to see more of him in a game. We've relied too much on him in the past bombing down the wing. Lately there's been more balanced play.

Also I think you're a bit hard on Jimmy. He's by far one of our slowest but by no means has he cost us as much as others. In other words, I think he's a fan favourite also because of his work ethic. Players may get a step on him but rarely do they beat him outright, no?

[Pachuco]

Agreed and he's cheating without the dividends players usually get from it. He should work on that positioning and try stripping players of the ball. The speed will work that much more for him.



I think the fact Wynne's such an explosive player with the ball that many expect to see more of him in a game. We've relied too much on him in the past bombing down the wing. Lately there's been more balanced play.

Also I think you're a bit hard on Jimmy. He's by far one of our slowest but by no means has he cost us as much as others. In other words, I think he's a fan favourite also because of his work ethic. Players may get a step on him but rarely do they beat him outright, no?

I don't know, I see Jimmy get beat all the time (this year, not last year) or I see him out of position as well. What frustrates me the absolutely most about Jimmy is that everytime he has the ball, he gives the ball back to the other team. He doesn't directly lose games for us, but posession is key in a football match, and Jimmy doesn't understand that. BTW - I didn't think he had a terrible game yesterday, so I'm not necessarily judging on yesterday's game, just the season as a whole.

He did have Jimmy moment yesterday though when Dero had the ball in the 112 corner, everyone on our side was yelling at Jimmy to come support him. Dero gets out of the corner, Jimmy ends up with the ball and tries to go right back into the same corner where Dero came from and lost the ball. He wouldn't have done that last year, he's not the same player.

I do get why he's a fan favorite, I like him for those same reasons. But at some point, he has to start playing better or my patience is going to run thin.

[Stryker]

I don't think he's become stagnant so much as he's become inconsistant.

[Yohan]

If Wynne is to be a good winger, he needs to know when to run and move forward.

I keep seeing him going back to his natural position at RB. That's not a good mentality to have as a winger

[Pachuco]

If Wynne is to be a good winger, he needs to know when to run and move forward.

I keep seeing him going back to his natural position at RB. That's not a good mentality to have as a winger

I don't get it, he's played something like 16 minutes in the RW position this year? or are you referring to last year?

[Yohan]

I don't get it, he's played something like 16 minutes in the RW position this year? or are you referring to last year?
last year and this year

he just seems so lost as a right winger

[Torcida]

The man was injured in the first few minutes of the game and came off hurt. In return he gets a thread to shit on him.

Wynne's been one of the worst? Come on. If anyone deserves a thread like this it's Jimmy Brennan. Absolutely, by far, the worst defender/distributor of the ball on this team. For some reason though, Brennan gets all the backing in the world because he's passionate, Canadian and he's our captain.
I agree with you about Brennan but why are you trying to change the subject? I didn't make this thread based on last night at all. Where did I mention anything about last night in my initial post?

[Hugh Jazz]

One of the better things about Wynne is the level of competition he brings to every game. The team is getting good results right now cause everyone is playing well so Wynne doesn't stand out. Wait until the middle of summer during a road slump, Wynne will still be going hard while others give up.

[trane]

Wynne is getting better but not at enough of a pace. I can see the temptetion at trying him as a outside mid, particullarly if you want to play a 4-4-2.

[Pachuco]

I agree with you about Brennan but why are you trying to change the subject? I didn't make this thread based on last night at all. Where did I mention anything about last night in my initial post?

I was just saying that I never see these threads around Brennan. Back handed way of defending Wynne I guess. You're right, I'll keep this thread to discussing Wynne.

I just think except for the hand balls, he's been pretty good this year. Yes his positioning at times is atrotious, but he always recovers from it. One thing that I noticed last night once Wynne was taken off (even though he wasn't supposed to be playing defense) is that all I saw was an exposed right side. I'll reference the goal that was called offisde against us but there were way more incidents where that side was completely open. If Wynne is on the field, Placenta doesn't even get that shot off even if he's playing on the wing. In fact, I said in the middle of the game that a half decent team would've noticed all the space on that side and would've began to use it to their advantage better.

Think of this as well. Wynne right now is a solid defender in the MLS. He gets any better and he's gone, we pretty much already know he's been looked at. Therefore, if he stagnates, and stays like this, I'd gladly keep him on that RB side for another 10 years.

[CretanBull]

Wynne is getting better but not at enough of a pace. I can see the temptetion at trying him as a outside mid, particullarly if you want to play a 4-4-2.

I think so too, except he'll need to improve his crossing before he can truly play the wing. His speed & hustle would cause fits for defending players though and he'd open up space in the middle of the pitch for Guevara & De Ro.

[greatwhitenorf]

Well, I'm pleased to see the club take note of my recent pondering on whether Wynne would be best used as a right-sided mid.

This man is very rarely beaten one on one.

He's a natural ball winner and no one on TFC has his ability to run shoulder to shoulder with another player, win control of the ball and make a good play, all at speed and under pressure.

Which doesn't make him necessarily a good defender.

However. He had the very talented Ronnie O'Brian playing right wing in the team's first year. Last season he had Rohan Ricketts. This year, Ricketts has been Ricketty. Rubbish, if truth be told.

Which is bound to effect how Wynne plays his position on defence. No doubt, the team is looking for him to get foward and connect with the attack. He's had to adjust, again, to the presence of two new players, in this case, Sam Cronin and Pablo Vitti.

Cronin's a very promising player. But to expect him and Wynne to link up the way O'Brian and Wynne did in the first year - witness the spectacular Dichio goal at home against Colorado those two set up - is being premature. Add in the need to learn how best to link with Vitti, and it's understandable that Wynne has had moments of uncertainity. We've even seen Guevaro move wide right at times, furthering complicating Wynne's role.

He's a work in progress and I have all kinds of time for someone with his kind of overall skill and vision. TFC don't have another player who has his natural level of athleticism.

I would love to see Wynne use his natural skills as a midfielder. I think he could become a monster there. And Nana Attakora is showing all kinds of reasons to be optimistic he can develop into Wynne's successor at right back. Chris Cummins has some very nice problems to deal with.

[druid]

He's a great athlete. He's a decent defender.

I expect that the coaching staff are asking him to do something different this year and he's trying to take it on board. It may take him a while. And perhaps we shouldn't be in such a rush for it to happen.

If Wynne was a quick learner he might not still be playing for TFC for much longer.

It's also worth remembering that it would be very hard for us to get a right back with more in his locker than Wynne, though Nana did look pretty good there against poor opposition.

[EAsoccer]

Wynne's not stagnating, he just impressed people with some of his performances the last 2 years. He's athletic, very fast and strong going into tackles, when you have as poor a team as TFC had the last 2 years(exception to this year) those qualities stand out.

[Cashcleaner]

I wouldnt say he is slumping but i dont see him becoming the premier league player people think he is. I do think he has some work to do but is still a decent player

That's pretty much the same line of thinking I have toward Wynne. I don't think he's EPL material by any stretch, frankly. I do believe he's one of the better defenders in MLS, though. To me, regardless of some positioning issues he does have the astounding turn of speed on him that just comes naturally. I don't see Wynne really developing much more above the level he's at now in terms of overall skill or technique, but I doubt he's hit his prime.

[ensco]

Wynne has been OK. But for the handballs (I've come around to see this as a major problem) we're not talking about him.

I think Velez and Brennan are the weak links in the back line.

Velez has been good lately, but we know what we have there. I think he's a sub.

Something is wrong with Jimmy. He's much slower, and he appears to be panicking out there 3 or 4 times a game. Is he hurt?

[Steve]

I was just saying that I never see these threads around Brennan. Back handed way of defending Wynne I guess. You're right, I'll keep this thread to discussing Wynne.

I just think except for the hand balls, he's been pretty good this year. Yes his positioning at times is atrotious, but he always recovers from it. One thing that I noticed last night once Wynne was taken off (even though he wasn't supposed to be playing defense) is that all I saw was an exposed right side. I'll reference the goal that was called offisde against us but there were way more incidents where that side was completely open. If Wynne is on the field, Placenta doesn't even get that shot off even if he's playing on the wing. In fact, I said in the middle of the game that a half decent team would've noticed all the space on that side and would've began to use it to their advantage better.

Think of this as well. Wynne right now is a solid defender in the MLS. He gets any better and he's gone, we pretty much already know he's been looked at. Therefore, if he stagnates, and stays like this, I'd gladly keep him on that RB side for another 10 years.

One thing I noticed on Wed was the change to the midfield. Before, when we were playing 4-3-3, we had a triangle of 4-2-1-3 in the middle of the park. This let our fullbacks attack when they wanted to. If you noticed, every time Wynne attacked, Cronin (who played on the right of the 2) would drop back and cover him on transition. It really solidified things, since we could have a CM player cover for a fullback run, while keeping one in the middle to break up attacks there.

On Wed, I didn't really see that. I assume what happened was Cummins gave Cronin more of an attacking role, told him to be more of a box to box midfield player, and then just let Guevara roam to where he wanted to. This made our attack more dynamic, and created many more chances, but also left our right side open when Nana attacked (which I assume he was also given the green light to do). Essentially, you had Nana attacking, with Cronin supporting his attack, and Robbo holding in the middle to prevent an attack through the centre. Unfortunately, that left our right exposed to a counter attack more than once. I don't know if this was planned (Cummins might have planned on our increased focus on attack to bag more than 1 goal against a USL side, and planned on our CBs to prevent an attack down our right from getting too dangerous) but it definitely happened. Personally, against MLS and on the road in the NCC, I would rather Chris either drop Cronin back to a defending position alongside Robbo, or prevent our FBs from attacking as high up, but hey, I'm not coaching the team (with a record of 4 wins two draws).

Edit: as to the topic of this thread at large, I think the biggest thing for Wynne is to be molded from an athlete into a soccer player. He is getting better with the ball at his feet, and beating people, but his instincts are still too much based on what his body can do (keep his arms out to balance himself on a fast turn) and not enough on how to play the game smartly (keep your arms down even if it will take you a second longer to turn). As a defender, he's solid at not letting people past him (mostly because they need to beat him 3 times to get in a good position) but not as good at organisation and positioning. I would say we should make a winger out of him, but he isn't good enough at crossing. I'd rather keep him as a fullback with the potential to make killer late game runs that take the opposition by surprise. Of course, I'd also like to teach him to stop giving up penalties, but what can you do.

[C.Ronaldo]

you mean his 4 ft high crosses dont cut it?

[Keegan]

I don't know how anyone can say Brennan has played worse than Wynne? I think a lot of fans just don't appreciate good defending and rather expect our backs to have runs forward in order to be considered a good performance. De Rosario is now taking all Brennan's ball time and runs. And to the guy who said Brennan is the worst distributor on the team? Brennan is the best crosser on this team by far no one even comes close. Keep in mind Brennan has been a left winger his whole career.

[EAsoccer]

Brennan has played better than Wynne but it is not because he is the best crosser on the team. The only players that should even be crossing the ball are the wingers and the fullbacks from time to time. But Brennan is one of the weaker distributors on the team in terms of passing along with our centrebacks.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

We all know that Wynne has the skillset to become a very good player but to me it doesn't seem that he is developing into a better player. Has he hit his prime already? Last year, I think he was one of our best players, but this year he has been one of our worst, quite similar to Mo Edu from Season 1 to season 2.

So, what does everyone think, is Wynne just slumping or is he not developing into the player we all hoped he could be?


WYnne is still one of our top 3 players...Behind Frei and Serioux
he has been solid at the back where you got our worst is ???
we nned him to help out at the back...

[AL-MO]

He needs to be able to cross the ball better. If he can't improve on this, he just isn't going to be the player that some thought.

Regardless I still like what he brings to the table.

[Jack]

WYnne is still one of our top 3 players...Behind Frei and Serioux
he has been solid at the back where you got our worst is ???
we nned him to help out at the back...
LOL

:p
Man, I'll tell you something, dude, your posts are a great source of comedy sometimes :D

[spezz44]

LOL

:p
Man, I'll tell you something, dude, your posts are a great source of comedy sometimes :D


Comical indeed. Dero, or Amado, dont make the list?

[Blazer]

We all know that Wynne has the skillset to become a very good player but to me it doesn't seem that he is developing into a better player. Has he hit his prime already? Last year, I think he was one of our best players, but this year he has been one of our worst, quite similar to Mo Edu from Season 1 to season 2.

So, what does everyone think, is Wynne just slumping or is he not developing into the player we all hoped he could be?

Respectfully, Marvell doesn’t have the skill set to become a very good player in this league. Wynne is exactly what he appears to be but no more than that. He’s arguably the most reliable guy in all of MLS, and definitely the most reliable guy on this team. He’s lighting fast, virtually impossible to beat one on one, and takes away the threat of speedy opponents’ forwards handling balls in threatening areas. But that’s where the buck stops. His football acumen and general aptitude will get marginally better just by the fluke of experience, but don’t expect him to suddenly find an accurate touch on shots, crosses, or long passes. He’ll forever be a true sweeper, which is desperately needed on any truly successful team, and as part of a balanced back line. Marvell is very good at what he does, but because he lacks in other areas, it balances out at least my player-assessment barometer.

[Jack]

Which makes him a perfect long-term MLS solution.

[Blazer]

^ Yes, MLS (and more importantly TFC) is as perfect for Wynne as Wynne is for it. I don’t see this guy getting significantly “better”, however barring serious injury to his leg(s), there won’t be a more difficult guy to beat down the side for a very long time. I'm glad he's a Red.

[EAsoccer]

Wynne is a top right back in the MLS, will probably win an MLS cup or two, and will improve as he is relatively young. As far as being a top 3 player on TFC :rolleyes: not a chance, top 11 sure.
Wynne is a perfect long term solution for TFC, he's athletic, runs fast and gives 100%, he's also not going to be sold to Europe as he doesnt have the skill set or technical ability to make the jump, which is no slight on him. Wynne's ceiling is Major League Soccer. Period.

[themodelcitizen]

The only way Marvell Wynne could be said to be stagnating is because he's surpassed the level of play of MLS and needs a bigger challenge to further his development.

[jloome]

I think people are overlooking a more obvious problem, which is that contracts don't last forever. Marvell would be just as dominant in a lower european league like Norway or Denmark, for all the same reasons. But he'd make a minimum of $300,000 more per season.

He'll go when his contract expires, because he has the option -- unless we're turning into a dynasty, or something, and he decides to stick around for that reason (excuse my skepticism on that front). Who could blame him?

But maybe the new cba will be massive. Nyuk, nyuk.

[greatwhitenorf]

We missed him today.

And I was really looking forward to seeing him fulfill his potential playing the wide midfield role that I boldly proposed for him not long ago.

[Davenport]

He's an athlete...not a footballer.
He may have reached his prime....as soon as he loses his pace he'll be f*cked because he doesn't have a footballing brain.
Get the Argos to sign him for big money NOW.

[Davenport]

He needs to be able to cross the ball better. If he can't improve on this, he just isn't going to be the player that some thought.

Regardless I still like what he brings to the table.
He's a footballer not a bloody waiter.

[jwfm1985]

^ "he's an athlete not a footballer"

then

"he's a footballer not a bloody waiter"

... just saying....

[Davenport]

^ "he's an athlete not a footballer"

then

"he's a footballer not a bloody waiter"

... just saying....
Well spotted. Your prize is in the post !
I should have qualified it by saying he get's paid to play football.

[AL-MO]

He's a footballer not a bloody waiter.

:lol:

Got me there!

[K1nG]

I think people are overlooking a more obvious problem, which is that contracts don't last forever. Marvell would be just as dominant in a lower european league like Norway or Denmark, for all the same reasons. But he'd make a minimum of $300,000 more per season.

He'll go when his contract expires, because he has the option -- unless we're turning into a dynasty, or something, and he decides to stick around for that reason (excuse my skepticism on that front). Who could blame him?

But maybe the new cba will be massive. Nyuk, nyuk.

do they really make that much more in Norway and Denmark's leagues?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

compared to teh measily 60k-150k, yeah, prob

[LucaGol]

Marvell Wynne is a very fast man. That's about it I'm afraid.

He's not improving really in anything.

He has no sense of the ball or play itself. How can you be a professional soccer player and not know how to touch the ball, how to curve the ball, shoot the ball with proper technique. I honestly don't get it.

[Blazer]

You can’t be a top right back in the league but not be one of the best on your team I’m afraid. Especially when your team has three wins in ten games.

Davenport is right, he’s a fantastic athlete, not a fantastic footballer. In MLS, you can be that. But in really competitive leagues you must be more otherwise you can’t just get by on being fast. Marvell is perfect for this team and for MLS.

There’s still a lot of football left to be played and Marvell will be a key component in moving forward. He shouldn’t be dogged on scapegoat style when he’s injured and not contributing right now. We are instantly a better team when we have him in the lineup so lets talk more about the guys who aren’t contributing but should be versus the guys who can’t right now because of injury.

[Hugh Jazz]

One of the better things about Wynne is the level of competition he brings to every game. The team is getting good results right now cause everyone is playing well so Wynne doesn't stand out. Wait until the middle of summer during a road slump, Wynne will still be going hard while others give up.

...Thought i'd dig this thread up

Sure he had a couple bad touches tonight but for the most part he seemed to be the only TFC player interested in playing.

[Don Julio]

motm for me, but really that's a pretty thin silver lining on a dark fucking cloud

[FluSH]

...Thought i'd dig this thread up

Sure he had a couple bad touches tonight but for the most part he seemed to be the only TFC player interested in playing.

uuugh

it Probably would have been best to start a new thread...