Onward! - "Armed and dangerous"

[Ben Knight]

Whether it was a penalty or not, Marvell Wynne has got to stop flapping his arms in the TFC box.

http://onwardsoccer.com/2009/05/10/armed-and-dangerous/

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

IMHO he was trying to get out of the way when it hit..poor Marvell hes unlucky, that said the refs have got to use common sence. It was not deliberate so it was not a penalty...This ref has it in for TFC and the club should request he no longer be available for games involving TFC,

[ensco]

I disagree. You think Marvell doesn't know that getting his arms extended is bad? Seriously?

Marvell's just been unlucky. He's played 55 games for us, he's caused three late penalties. Two happened to look similar and occured within 5 games of each other. He deserves more credit than this. Pique did it too. It's just one of those things.

The worst thing Cummins could do is make a big deal out of this in practice.

I'd genuinely be interested in your view of Brennan, Ben. Nobody's talking about him much, but I feel he's having a poor year. He's getting beaten down the line repeatedly, and his distribution and tackling isn't what is was.

[Ben Knight]

Ensco, three late penalties in 55 games isn't just unlucky, it's appalling.

And it seems so unnecessary.

I'm still seeing a lot from Brennan that I like, but I'll happily keep a closer eye on him.

[Nerepis]

I disagree. You think Marvell doesn't know that getting his arms extended is bad? Seriously?

Marvell's just been unlucky. He's played 55 games for us, he's caused three late penalties. Two happened to look similar and occured within 5 games of each other. He deserves more credit than this. Pique did it too. It's just one of those things.

The worst thing Cummins could do is make a big deal out of this in practice.

I'd genuinely be interested in your view of Brennan, Ben. Nobody's talking about him much, but I feel he's having a poor year. He's getting beaten down the line repeatedly, and his distribution and tackling isn't what is was.

I agree, I think Wynn has just been unlucky. I'm not quite ready to but on a tin-foil hat just yet, but is there an easy way to research MLS game reports. I'd like to see how many late penalties Baldomero Toledo has called against TFC? And how does that compare to other teams?

[bee dubya]

Ensco, I have to agree with you on Brennan. I think he's been a bit of a liability out there on D this season. He's still good going forward, joining the rush and throwing in some decent crosses but it seems like he's lost a step and he's being beaten and putting the rest of our D in vulnerable positions. 2 of DC's goals last night were due to some seriously lackluster defense on our part and they aren't Jimmy's fault. There were also a number of times that I saw guys like Fred and Quarisma walk around him far too easily, not to mention some of the terrible plays he's made in the last couple of games. We should be keeping an eye on him.

Anyone else find it disappointing that we gave up 3 goals despite playing with 6 defenders last night? I know we shifted to a 3-5-2 from the 4-4-2 we started with but to me it looked more of a 6-2-2 at times.

[ensco]

Ensco, three late penalties in 55 games isn't just unlucky, it's appalling.

And it seems so unnecessary.




Issue 1: Is he a penalty-taking machine?

Is three over 55 games a high number? Maybe. I think so, but I can't find anyone who keeps "penalties conceded" stats out there - anyone have something? I'd love to know how many have been called on, say, Jimmy Conrad, over the years. So let's accept that it's high. So it's a question of context. Given some of the other positive/exceptional things he does, and considering his other flaws, and considering that he's played for some pretty bad teams here, and isn't getting much help defensively this year, I'll take it.

Issue 2: Is it significant that all of his penalties have come late?

No. The team has a problem with late goals across the board. I think we conceded 10 last year after 85 minutes, and we're at 4 already. Our ability to hold possession late is horrendous. Why are the backs under this kind of pressure when we have the lead? It's probably the number one issue for Cummins.

I'd sum up by saying that if Marvell were a penalty-generating machine, he'd be getting them throughout the match. But he's not. So the fact that they've all come late is a coincidence.

[rocker]

well, if you take a broader view.. let's say we call it "sloppiness" and you include all the penalties he's given up with TFC, he's got 5 in 55 games.

05/19/2007 -- 79th minute
05/24/2008 -- 70th minute
09/13/2008 -- 12th minute
04/19/2009 -- 84th minute
05/09/2009 -- 92nd minute

getting a penalty every 11 games seems like a lot to me. Going beyond the hand thing, it strikes me as a lack of awareness, a sloppiness, a lack of technique, maybe tiredness.. something other than bad luck. nobody has ever said Marvell was smooth out there. He can be clunky in his play, and people regularly knock his positioning awareness. perhaps this is a byproduct of these issues.

I remember when we got Serioux, people said "OH NO! he's a red card machine!" even though he had just 1 red card in over 50 MLS games. If Marvell had 5 red cards in 55 games we'd be crucifying him. But a right back who gets 5 penalties in 55 games doesn't strike me as unlucky,... on the opposite side of the pitch, Brennan has contributed to just 1 penalty in 64 games.

[ensco]

5 is definitely a lot

[Ben Knight]

It just seems unnecessary. Even if they're all bad calls, what are his arms doing out there?

[wzhxvy]

Oh cmon guys, Ben is absolutely right here. Why are you defending Marvell here ? Have you seen his Karate kicks ????????? How many times in a game does he jump on one foot and kick the ball with his other leg as if his life depended on the outcome and it usually does because he is badly beat or out of position. He is awkward on so many fronts and his lack of control of his arms is just another example. He makes up for this with his strength and speed but this is far far from bad luck.

[koryo]

I'm sorry, but Marvel Wynne is not unlucky. He's flailing his limbs in the penalty area.

IN

THE

PENALTY

AREA

End of.

[ua-kozak_TFC]

IMHO he was trying to get out of the way when it hit..poor Marvell hes unlucky, that said the refs have got to use common sence. It was not deliberate so it was not a penalty...This ref has it in for TFC and the club should request he no longer be available for games involving TFC,
this is not the first time this happens to him.... there are atleast other 2 times that i can remember in this moment when he gave away a dumb penalty...

[BleedRed]

Ya the situation is really ridiculous to be honest. I would never go as far as saying that a ref should not be allowed to ref a teams game BUT this guy toledo is just fuckin ridiculous. It's like every time he refs one of our games something contreversial happens. At a certain point you have to look at the tapes and review how he has reffed these games. It's really sad that we only have a few fifa refs in the MLS and he is one of them. Bring those 45+ retired refs from italy to the mls PLZ! There are people who give amazing solutions to the mls's reffing problem on chat boards yet executives and people working for mls cant do a little research and figure it out. Fuckin lazy ass dumb pieces of shit.

[TFC_Toon]

Jimmy B was skinned too easily on the cross that came in to cause the penalty I thought as well, he was slow to close down.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Jimmy B was skinned too easily on the cross that came in to cause the penalty I thought as well, he was slow to close down.


Jimmy B got skinned by a turtle...who actaully scored!!:D he just needs to pick his game up a bit thats all...

[Flipityflu]

i agree with Ben on this. Marvell has to be more careful with his arms in the penalty area. odds are, those handballs are going to get called everytime the ref see's them. we know it, we've seen it. it doesn't matter if you think it is unfair or not, its a fact. needs to be worked on.

[sweetlemon69]

I'm going to assume nobody here has ever really played soccer at a competitive level before, because as a defender, you're trained to hold those windmill arms of his to your side, even while 'trying to get out of the way'. We really need to sell this guy for top dollar and bring in a more experienced right back. Someone with better positional skills and who can run the wing with a little more control and accuracy.

[pepher]

Wynne is a dangerous defender and I know if I had a choice, I'd rather be attacking TFC from the right. That said, if teams get in in their head to attack Marvell in the box and pop the ball 'up'... he'll have to address this. I do think the calls are a pant load and that he's just been unlucky but before it happens again he better be aware of his arms becoming targets by some of these cheap playmakers and crap calls.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wynne gives us plenty of good runs and he must to make up for some of his positioning. This posture is another element of his game that must be worked on. Oppisition can now try and exploit this unless Wynne works on this and stop losing points for us.

[C.Ronaldo]

how about if wynne is not allowed in the box? theres a solution.


ps
cronin holds his hands behind his back every time a cross comes in, maybe overkill, but maybe its a lesson marvel can learn.

[Derko]

It just seems unnecessary. Even if they're all bad calls, what are his arms doing out there?

I agree that it is sloppiness on Wynne's part, but why are TFC always backing up in their own 1/3 of the pitch in stoppage time, is it a coincedence?

[Roogsy]

Sometimes...you make your own "luck".

In this case...Wynne's "unluckiness" is his own doing.

Sorry...I don't buy this coincidence thing. I love Wynne...but this is just poor defending. In my years as a RB, as amatuer as I was...not once did I get called for a PK in the box. I can't defend this, I really cant.

[Don Julio]

The last penalty was questionable - it appeared that he was in the process of getting arms out of the way and it hit him high enough that it would've likely deflected off hi torso if he had no arm. Saturday was pretty clear cut - his outstretched hand blocked a dangerous pass inside the box.

As many many times as that ref has screwed us the game Saturday night was really well reffed by MLS standards, aside for a curiously overlooked back-pass to the goalie from each side.

I can't believe Wynne's conceded 5 pens - anyone remember the others? More hand balls?

[joel]

If you watch Wynne play closely, his arms are always up, he defends with two hands on every player, and often shoves them, getting fouls, penalties or being lucky to escape them. The stats don't lie, and the tape doesn't either. He needs to learn to defend better while not using his hands.

[trane]

^ I agree.


Rocker, thanks I was thinking of doing that, I remeber that he cost us several penalties but I could not remember them each exactly.

[C.Ronaldo]

^ funny, i do the same thing with my hands

difference is, I SUCK AND DONT GET PAID TO PLAY!!!!!

[ensco]

Having thought about the fact that it's 5, not 3, PKs given up, I think people are right that this is a real issue. It's year 3 and there's no more free passes.

It's not the windmilling, really, it's the whole package. Marvell's getting exposed too frequently back there. Notwithstanding the other good things he does, teams are going at him, and it's working. (Like I said, he's not the only back having this problem, either.)