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poppamidnight
05-09-2009, 07:34 PM
I'm not talking about player-quality, I'm talking about the overall formation + tactics/gameplan

Does anyone else thinks this ranks up there with the worst starting formation we have ever fielded (second to that patchwork lineup last yr when something like 6 starters were out?)

First a 4-4-2...

Understood that Robinson wasn't available...but replacing him with Serioux (who clearly isn't suited as a defensive-mf and didn't look 100% healthy/fit),

Then keeping Harmse in the lineup???
Sure he scored a goal, but really didn't do much that Vancouver game.
(Interjection here: Harmse is so bad that I saw Amado's wife ask who scored right after we went up 1-0 vs. Vancouver and she actually burst out laughing when she found out it was Harmse)...
Over Vitti, Fuad, Ricketts, Johann?

Not to mention going with that lineup and implementing a fail-strategy (lobbing it up to two strikers who aren't really big targets in the air).
It showed... Our limited chances weren't even quality ones. DC looked far superior.

I'm not comprehending... I thought questionable lineups were gone w/ Carver.

I didn't know why the best team wasn't fielded? Or for that matter, why such a incompatible gameplan was played with that formation (no big target for those long bombs in the air)...DeRo's good with control of the ball in the air 1-on-1, but he can't bring down the balls like a big man can.

More suitable lineup for that:???

----------Frei------------
Wynne-Nana-Velez--Brennan
-----------Cronin------------
------Amado------------
--DeRo----------Vitti
--------Barrett---Dichio---

MartinUtd
05-09-2009, 07:36 PM
You know Serioux has traditionally been a DM throughout his career, right?

But yeah I can see the frustration.. leaving Dichio AND Vitti off? Sure I can understand leaving one of them off, but both?

Stryker
05-09-2009, 07:37 PM
I can understand letting Harmse play the Vancouver game but applying the keep the shirt rule to a player like him is laughable.
He stood around and took in the game when it bounced around our box.
Lazy fuck.

Roogsy
05-09-2009, 07:39 PM
They took off Barrett for Vitti???

We STILL have a defensive lineup out there...with a goal down!

COME ON!

poppamidnight
05-09-2009, 07:40 PM
You know Serioux has traditionally been a DM throughout his career, right?

But yeah I can see the frustration.. leaving Dichio AND Vitti off? Sure I can understand leaving one of them off, but both?

No i didn't (not that I wouldh've been able to tell anyways - he evidently dropped back and finished the half as a CB), but I did say he didn't look match fit/fully healthy... so regardless.

For Dichio, I was mainly trying to point out for the TACTICS/GAMEPLAN used (an air-game), he's the best suited player (a big-target)... Not the skill... But You raise a good point - he still has better skill even if it was a different gameplan


EDIT: 2nd half 2-1, we're getting more chances thanks to changed tactics, and a formation that is switching as they go... Maybe thread should be changed to "approach' to game... Their no longer playing a 'in-the-air' game, and it doesnt look like a true 4-4-2 anymore

TFC USA
05-09-2009, 08:30 PM
We blew it. Again.


DeRo though is my hero.

Lennon
05-09-2009, 08:31 PM
CHOP OFF WYNNE'S HANDS !!!! UGHHHH this is so frustrating ... how many points have we dropped in ET on the road!?! Happenes all the fucking time ...

kodiakTFC
05-09-2009, 08:32 PM
my heart hurts but boy do I love DeRo and Serioux

ilikemusic
05-09-2009, 08:32 PM
Ill post it again in here...

When does Wynne stop being 'unlucky' and start being 'careless'?

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 08:32 PM
compared to last year, when we are down a goal on the road, we are able to come back.

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 08:33 PM
Ill post it again in here...

When does Wynne stop being 'unlucky' and start being 'careless'?

I agree!!

TFC USA
05-09-2009, 08:33 PM
Barrett has to go. I've lost patience with him.

Wynne unfortunately is edging closer to being on my shit list. How many times are you going to give up penalties and let your man run past you?


I like the draw but I called this exactly. This is the game we would blow.

Oh well, let's transfer three into the back of Montreal's net.

ochos
05-09-2009, 08:33 PM
yup not to mention how heartless everyone was playing at the end.. not closing men down WHEN WE HAVE THE LEAD... TWICE!!

FUcking bullshit they should be ashamed

James17930
05-09-2009, 08:33 PM
What a game. Wow.

I thought the call on Wynne in Dallas as warranted, but his one was VERY weak. Completely ball to hand. But, I mean, the refs are consistantly calling everything so I guess it's fair (though . . . arghhhh).

Shows how far we've come though, and a point in D.C. is a good result.

See how the boys are feeling on Wed.

James17930
05-09-2009, 08:35 PM
yup not to mention how heartless everyone was playing at the end.. not closing men down WHEN WE HAVE THE LEAD... TWICE!!

FUcking bullshit they should be ashamed

Fuck off.

They've played so many games lately, I thought they really did the best they could.

Don't turn on your own players after getting an away draw at the top team in the conference.

Seriously -- there are so many douche bags on this board now . . . makes me want to not even read it sometimes.

dag
05-09-2009, 08:35 PM
As someone BORN missing his right hand, I take serious umbrage at some of this extreme venting. I understand the frustration, but let's notch it down a bit, eh?

A terrible way to give up two points, but I will take the draw. A great team effort after the first quarter hour. I'm very proud of the lads. They showed tremendous spirit in the second half, and I for one will warmly welcome them back at BMO on Wednesday.

De Ro rules, plain and simple. And Serioux was great.

Time to rest and recover. May I suggest not starting the same lineup against the Impact? Give a few of the lads a rest.

Super Cereal
05-09-2009, 08:35 PM
Fuck.

Ah well, better than losing.

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 08:35 PM
the ref was decent until added time, where he showed the usual MLS bias against TFC...

yellow against DeRo after getting booted in the face twice, what a joke

loconet
05-09-2009, 08:35 PM
We looked like crap that first half. As soon as the balls was on the ground for most of the time, we started to become dangerous. Why the f do we continue to boot it up field?

Ah well, 1-1 away at DC is an excellent result but I could almost taste those 3 points! Argh. We looked completely destroyed towards the end.

I feel very sorry for Wynne, he has worked his ass off tonight, decent performance, but fuck, they gotta teach him to keep his arms close to his body. He looked very upset with himself.

Hands down, DeRo for man of the match. He was everywhere, fighting hard. Scores one of the best goals in TFC's short history. Cheers to mighty for calling DeRo's success. LMAO, seriously dude.

sully
05-09-2009, 08:36 PM
We were robbed! maybe we should amputate Wynne's arms and hands so balls can't be kicked at them..

Up The TFC
05-09-2009, 08:36 PM
I wouldn't say we blew it.

DC played well enough to win, we played well enough for the draw.

denime
05-09-2009, 08:36 PM
No i didn't (not that I wouldh've been able to tell anyways - he evidently dropped back and finished the half as a CB), but I did say he didn't look match fit/fully healthy... so regardless.

For Dichio, I was mainly trying to point out for the TACTICS/GAMEPLAN used (an air-game), he's the best suited player (a big-target)... Not the skill... But You raise a good point - he still has better skill even if it was a different gameplan


EDIT: 2nd half 2-1, we're getting more chances thanks to changed tactics, and a formation that is switching as they go... Maybe thread should be changed to "approach' to game... Their no longer playing a 'in-the-air' game, and it doesnt look like a true 4-4-2 anymore


I think you should stop talking/writing about tactics and soccer in general.If I where you After this game you should come out and apologize for your first post because it is embarrassing for you and this forum.
go play chess,please.
:rant:

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 08:37 PM
:@

fuck the Fan and Sportsnet... incredible game, and no post game show...

flatpicker
05-09-2009, 08:37 PM
Wynne... just plain unlucky. Both the penalties he's given up could have happened to anyone... he must think he's cursed right now.

DeRo... great stuff! Two excellent goals! It sure was nice to finally see him unload a sweet shot like that second one!

Serioux... I thought he did very well... good challenges... strong game.


I seriously thought we were gonna get smoked after the domination by DC in the first half.

Toronto shuffled the lineup nicely to face the DC offensive.

Might I just say, the DC supporters looked and sounded fantastic.
I think you would see a similar sight in Toronto if all the supporter groups were in the same area.
I sure hope they get their stadium.

Exciting game! Disappointing... but good entertainment.

Hooligan69
05-09-2009, 08:37 PM
DeRo is awesome. That ref tonight is a cunt.

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 08:38 PM
Before the game, I would of been happy with a point.

But, after seeing that we lead twice in the final 10 minutes, I am disappointed a little.

GBV
05-09-2009, 08:38 PM
i had t.o. +330.
fucking hell.

rocker
05-09-2009, 08:39 PM
forgetting the details of what happened, 1-1 was pretty fair. DC started hot as hell, and finished the same. TFC played well in the middle portion.

just sucks to have a 3-2 lead with minutes left and still lose it. oh well.. at least DC doesn't pull away from us in the standings. And road points are huge in this league.

UltraSuperMegaMo
05-09-2009, 08:39 PM
Sometimes a draw feels like a win, this one feels like a loss.

manic.street.preacher
05-09-2009, 08:39 PM
DeRo was totally the MoM ... but man, our boys looked dead tired

Up The TFC
05-09-2009, 08:39 PM
...and full marks to Chris Cummins.

Excellent substitution at half time, and pulling De Ro back was absolutely the right thing to do.

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 08:39 PM
Not to bring up old stuff........but this is the same ref that Carver said had it out for him........maybe he doesn`t like CC as well..

Wildgreek
05-09-2009, 08:40 PM
good game for tfc. 1 point is decent

BUT WHATS THE DEAL WITH OFFICIATING IN MLS???? no wonder this league is recognized as "B division" by many national teams, i don't think its because of the players quality, but because of the terrible officiating.

TFC USA
05-09-2009, 08:40 PM
Dallas, Vancouver (2008), now DC United.

We have absolutely no composure in the final 10 minutes of any one goal game win or lose.

Nerepis
05-09-2009, 08:41 PM
Wynne... just plain unlucky. Both the penalties he's given up could have happened to anyone... he must think he's cursed right now.

+1 QFT

Carter
05-09-2009, 08:41 PM
Not to bring up old stuff........but this is the same ref that Carver said had it out for him........maybe he doesn`t like CC as well..


What Toledo said to JC was quote "You will never win a game while I'm the Referee"

Toledo needs to go

TicTacTabarnack
05-09-2009, 08:41 PM
DeRo is awesome. That ref tonight is a cunt.

http://images.ussoccer.com/Images/cms/ussf/Refs_Toledo150.jpg
Yet Again ... Baldomero Toledo!
This guy never disappoints in disappointing TFC.

billyfly
05-09-2009, 08:42 PM
The Handball rule should be changed once and for all to deliberate hand to ball contact.

I know that it touched Wynne's fingers and probably stopped the ball going to the DC player but this draw stings.

tfc
05-09-2009, 08:42 PM
Barrett has to go. I've lost patience with him.

Wynne unfortunately is edging closer to being on my shit list. How many times are you going to give up penalties and let your man run past you?


I like the draw but I called this exactly. This is the game we would blow.

Oh well, let's transfer three into the back of Montreal's net.

come on, wynne was a beast this game. he played amazing football until that hand ball, and does so most games. sure he is out of position sometimes, but he always makes up for it, and rarely does it kick him in the ass

barrett was decent, didnt really do much in the first half but i dont know if that can be put on him solely as he barely got any service - clear difference between him and dero though, who went out and made his own attack

i think this game was an incredible marker in the course of our year, the way we changed shape, positions, and style throughout the game was remarkable and really signals cummins' influence as a coach and as the leader of this team. i am still buzzing, great game - we didnt win, but man has cummins really stepped this team up a notch!

trane
05-09-2009, 08:43 PM
Dude Toledo or not this is not the first time that Wynne gets called for this, he needs to learn to keep his hands in.

MrHawk
05-09-2009, 08:43 PM
Thank You trane.

When you move forward, you don't stick out your arm against the play.

TFC OZZ
05-09-2009, 08:43 PM
All credit to TFC, rarely have I have seen them display a "fight back" mentality, but with DE RO in the lineup they certainly have it. They got screwed over on the deflected PK call, but the boys deserver credit, they should have had the win.

sully
05-09-2009, 08:43 PM
Dude Toledo or not this is not the first time that Wynne gets called for this, he needs to learn to keep his hands in.

so what do you want him to do? sit on the grass?

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 08:44 PM
good thing...........NE just tied Chicago...........1-1

werewolf
05-09-2009, 08:44 PM
http://images.ussoccer.com/Images/cms/ussf/Refs_Toledo150.jpg
Yet Again ... Baldomero Toledo!
This guy never disappoints in disappointing TFC.

Dallas, KC, now DC...:dita:

rocker
05-09-2009, 08:44 PM
Chris Cummins: undefeated in 5.

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 08:44 PM
DeRo was totally the MoM ... but man, our boys looked dead tired
na, I think it was Frei...

Jack
05-09-2009, 08:45 PM
Great performance by our boys and great stuff by Cummins to be able to adjust and adapt on the fly.

Man...DeRo had a tour de force tonight. The reserves stepped it up and played well. Nana and Harmse did a good job stepping in, which we need. Dichio came on late and caused problems. Did I mention DeRo.

The result stings, but there are a lot of positives to take away from tonight once the pain of that penalty and the brutal non-call on Vitti wear off.

Raging Reggie
05-09-2009, 08:45 PM
feel really bad for wynne, that wasnt his fault man, the refs in this league are bullshit! i felt like drogba yelling at the screen, a fucking disgrace, totally not wynnes fault, feel bad for the guy, ball took a total deflection

sully
05-09-2009, 08:45 PM
na, I think it was Frei...

I'm not sure Frei should have had the second goal..

TicTacTabarnack
05-09-2009, 08:45 PM
i think this game was an incredible marker in the course of our year, the way we changed shape, positions, and style throughout the game was remarkable and really signals cummins' influence as a coach and as the leader of this team. i am still buzzing, great game - we didnt win, but man has cummins really stepped this team up a notch!

+1 :scarf:

marquis
05-09-2009, 08:46 PM
I'm not even dissapointed for not winning tonight, because I'm finally confident we have a good team! And a good coach - Cummins should definitely be kept. I don't want to start a flame, but if carver was still in charge tonight, we would've lost from 3-0 and up...I can't believe we lost a full year with that clown as our coach.

billyfly
05-09-2009, 08:46 PM
good thing...........NE just tied Chicago...........1-1


This draw still stings.

GeorgeB
05-09-2009, 08:46 PM
why so much negativity always ? we got a draw against DC on the road and i thought we did quite well .

Krasno.pL.
05-09-2009, 08:46 PM
no balance on his head.!
thats a 50-50 call that could or could not be called..
soo whatever we got a point
and bring on the Lamepact

MrHawk
05-09-2009, 08:46 PM
I'm not sure Frei should have had the second goal..

Pontius was left all alone and had a lot of time to plan that shot.
It may have taken a bit of a deflection off a TFC player into the top.

Up The TFC
05-09-2009, 08:47 PM
I'm not sure Frei should have had the second goal..

Had to tell from watching it on TV of course, but I'm pretty sure Frei was screened pretty hard on both goals.

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 08:47 PM
na, I think it was Frei...

Frei? two goals were probably his fault. The first one was a rookie mistake in that he punched it right out to DC. The second one, I have no idea what he was doing. I like Frei, don't get me wrong, but fuck if there's ever a game he wasn't MOM it was today.

Dero by far gets MoM.

trane
05-09-2009, 08:47 PM
so what do you want him to do? sit on the grass?

Tuck his arms to his body like every defender is taught to do. I learned this at 8, he should know by now. He played a good game. But he needs to learn.

iansmcl
05-09-2009, 08:48 PM
Ref was useless... he was standing DIRECTLY ACROSS from DeRo/Pontius and completely fucked up that call. And ... WTF was Pontius angry about? That DeRo didn't drop from getting booted twice? I would've kicked the shit out of that bitch.

Wynne... I don't know what to say. That was brutal. Though he WAS trying to pull his hand away from the ball and I don't think (I'll have to re-watch) that his hand was that far from the vertical/his body.

sully
05-09-2009, 08:48 PM
why so much negativity always ? we got a draw against DC on the road and i thought we did quite well .

you're right. But it's hard to believe yet again that a penalty was awarded based on ?????

Krasno.pL.
05-09-2009, 08:48 PM
i dont know what happend on that 2nd goal.. frie leaned back.. should be leaning forward .. didnt see it take a deflection.. was a weak goal if it didnt

werewolf
05-09-2009, 08:49 PM
pJN5C2WuJRU

sully
05-09-2009, 08:49 PM
i dont know what happend on that 2nd goal.. frie leaned back.. should be leaning forward .. didnt see it take a deflection.. was a weak goal if it didnt

or his sightline was blocked maybe..

trane
05-09-2009, 08:49 PM
Great performance by our boys and great stuff by Cummins to be able to adjust and adapt on the fly.

Man...DeRo had a tour de force tonight. The reserves stepped it up and played well. Nana and Harmse did a good job stepping in, which we need. Dichio came on late and caused problems. Did I mention DeRo.

The result stings, but there are a lot of positives to take away from tonight once the pain of that penalty and the brutal non-call on Vitti wear off.

Agree. Wynne had a good game, as did the entire team, he just needs to learn to keep his hands it. Simple. The second goal was teh result of tieredenss by everyone. I am dissaponted with the resutl but not with the team. After a sahky start they did well.

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 08:50 PM
I'd like to say that the tie was a little dissapointing, but when you put it into perspective, we played an incredible second half. Cummins made the right substitutions at the right time, I wonder why he started the team with a defensive formation though when we've shown we can't play that way.

All in all, we gotta be happy with these results. Tying the first place team away from home can never be a bad thing.

Oh, and why is it always the same biased people complaining about the ref around here? for fuck sakes it was once again a penalty. I called it before I even saw the ref blow the whistle. Some of you need to step away for a second and realize that the ref actually had a pretty good game.

billyfly
05-09-2009, 08:50 PM
Although I am still so freakin' deflated - This is a different TFC we saw tonight.

Thank you Boys for making me feel proud.

rocker
05-09-2009, 08:50 PM
looked like a deflection on the replay.

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 08:50 PM
George, it's just disappointment of having our first come from behind 3 points taken away...

anyway, is there a way the league can review that Pontius double boot, he should be suspended for their next game... should have been a red...

ochos
05-09-2009, 08:51 PM
Fuck off.

They've played so many games lately, I thought they really did the best they could.

Don't turn on your own players after getting an away draw at the top team in the conference.

Seriously -- there are so many douche bags on this board now . . . makes me want to not even read it sometimes.

James - I dunno who you are, but don`t give me your BS. ME, turning on the boys.. are you nuts? You`re saying this to someone who`s missed 3 home games in the past 2 years - that`s including friendly`s pal. I`m constantly positive and hate to hear people bashing the team. AND MARVELL WYNNE has been my fav player since day 1.

But that was extremely unacceptable. Did you see how crap our team was shutting the down defensively. When you have the lead, you have to earn it. We did not play to win, not like champions. It`s simply not good enough. It was a huge problem for us last year (giving up goals late in games), and it arguably cost us our playoff spot last year.

Know wtf you`re talking about mate

H Bomb
05-09-2009, 08:51 PM
Gotta mention how much of an impact Vitti made coming on today. He completely set up the second goal by keeping the ball in. Also his possession caused DC problems and gave our guys a break. He's great!

MrHawk
05-09-2009, 08:52 PM
The ref did have a good game.

He made proper calls (Velez being fouled when DC wanted it, the offside on DC, the challenge by Nana and a few others).

TFC Cityboy
05-09-2009, 08:52 PM
Just let me say that the next time that biased cnut Toledo refs a match in this fair city, I would like to have a pleasant exchange of views on his ability to referee a football match.
Biased twat. Did ok til right at the end and then showed his true colours.
JC likely feeling vindicated right about now.

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 08:52 PM
Oh, and why is it always the same biased people complaining about the ref around here? for fuck sakes it was once again a penalty. I called it before I even saw the ref blow the whistle. Some of you need to step away for a second and realize that the ref actually had a pretty good game.
did you see the DeRo yellow card?

the issue is not with the penalty (if there is an issue there it's with Wynne, not the ref)

the issue is the ref and his complete fuck up of the Pontius/DeRo incident

the ref had a good game during most of the game, but then that was a disgrace his complete mishandling of that incident

tfc
05-09-2009, 08:52 PM
why so much negativity always ? we got a draw against DC on the road and i thought we did quite well .

agreed, first thing some people do is look to add names to their shit lists. i thought this game was huge for us, screw the result, that ref is a dink and the penalty was weak at best. we played some incredible football in the second half, coming back like that to score 3 was amazing, we barely score 3 in whole games!

i thought vitti played very well too, yea he still needs to adapt to the style and communicate better, but he had some amazing runs, the foul on him was the reason for our second goal! goals and a bigger presence will come with more playing for him, im not worried at all!

the vitti dichio combo up top to end the game was a nice move, dichio really scared the defense and vitti played well off him i thought.

i also though nana had a good game as well, every time i see him i feel like this will be a break out year for him.

Up The TFC
05-09-2009, 08:53 PM
the ref actually had a pretty good game.

I agree totally...I even said, 'Handball' as it happened (habit, I guess). I thought it was the right call, and I thought he let stuff go all night which made the game way more fun to watch.

The De Ro booking was suspect...I'll just assume it was for something we couldn't see on camera.

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 08:53 PM
I am happy with getting a point, but was hoping to get 3 since our next 3 games are against Chicago, NE, and Houston.

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 08:53 PM
Gotta mention how much of an impact Vitti made coming on today. He completely set up the second goal by keeping the ball in. Also his possession caused DC problems and gave our guys a break. He's great!

Yeap, very true!

Jack
05-09-2009, 08:54 PM
Man...this was a good battle between the TOP TWO TEAMS in the East.

sully
05-09-2009, 08:55 PM
Oh, and why is it always the same biased people complaining about the ref around here? for fuck sakes it was once again a penalty. I called it before I even saw the ref blow the whistle. Some of you need to step away for a second and realize that the ref actually had a pretty good game.

So Wynne handled the ball deliberately?


LAW 12 - FIFA:



A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player
commits any of the following three offences:
• holds an opponent
• spits at an opponent
• handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his
own penalty area)
A direct free kick is taken from

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html

rocker
05-09-2009, 08:55 PM
i just hate the whole penalty call thang in soccer. I understand the purpose, but it always seems so extreme.... it'd be like me being sent to jail for jaywalking. the penalty doesn't fit in the crime... unless it's a clear chance and clearly deliberate..

but i guess that's a debate for another thread ;)

TFC Cityboy
05-09-2009, 08:55 PM
Great performance boys. I'd have takena point before the match...still it hurts to piss it away like that for the umpteenth time eh

TFC USA
05-09-2009, 08:55 PM
come on, wynne was a beast this game. he played amazing football until that hand ball, and does so most games. sure he is out of position sometimes, but he always makes up for it, and rarely does it kick him in the ass


This is the 3rd time (once a year) against DC United he's given up the winning or tying penalty. The first one was when he tripped up that player and we lost at BMO. Then we blew a 2-1 lead at DC when Dichio had a double. Now this year when DeRo had a double.

This is an alarming trend.

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 08:56 PM
did you see the DeRo yellow card?

the issue is not with the penalty (if there is an issue there it's with Wynne, not the ref)

the issue is the ref and his complete fuck up of the Pontius/DeRo incident

Yes I did, but my issue is not with the people complaining about the yellow card, my issue is with people actually calling the ref a cunt because he called the penalty on Wynne. It was the right call. If he had one bad call it was the yellow card, but who cares, doesn't change the fact he refed a pretty good game.

billyfly
05-09-2009, 08:57 PM
Am I the only one though that was still nervous after DeRo took back the lead? That thought "Ok, how will DC score...?"

TFC USA
05-09-2009, 08:57 PM
Ranting aside, that was one hell of a game.

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 08:58 PM
another note: Brennan picked up his 4th yellow (I think its his 2nd for dissent), so one more and he is out.

Stryker
05-09-2009, 08:58 PM
You know whats scary? The fact that we'd probley be 2-6-1 without DeRo.

Jack
05-09-2009, 08:58 PM
So Wynne handled the ball deliberately?


LAW 12 - FIFA:





A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player
commits any of the following three offences:
• holds an opponent
• spits at an opponent
• handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his
own penalty area)

A direct free kick is taken from

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html
Well, Sully, how do you determine "deliberately" in the flash of a second it takes to make the call? Especially when we all know what good actors players are.

The refs can't watch replays.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-09-2009, 08:58 PM
James - I dunno who you are, but don`t give me your BS. ME, turning on the boys.. are you nuts? You`re saying this to someone who`s missed 3 home games in the past 2 years - that`s including friendly`s pal. I`m constantly positive and hate to hear people bashing the team. AND MARVELL WYNNE has been my fav player since day 1.

But that was extremely unacceptable. Did you see how crap our team was shutting the down defensively. When you have the lead, you have to earn it. We did not play to win, not like champions. It`s simply not good enough. It was a huge problem for us last year (giving up goals late in games), and it arguably cost us our playoff spot last year.

Know wtf you`re talking about mate


Our team was getting tired and they were struggling. younger legs
are needed. yes Wynne is my fav too, hes just been unlucky with
the two penalty calls.

GeorgeB
05-09-2009, 08:58 PM
definately the right call.if the ball doesnt hit Wynne's hand it goes to an open United player.

Super
05-09-2009, 08:59 PM
CHEER UP EVERYONE!

That was a MASSIVE performance by our guys. Second half was a spectacular show and a great ad for not only Toronto FC, but also the league. I'm obviously sad that we didn't walk away with a win, but 3 goals in DC and coming away from there with a point is still an amazing performance.

We're definitely on the right track. Cummins shows his brilliance with the tactics today - give him a permanent contract please.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-09-2009, 08:59 PM
You know whats scary? The fact that we'd probley be 2-6-1 without DeRo.


we were 2-0 without him while he was out? how do you figure that record?

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 08:59 PM
Our team was getting tired and they were struggling. younger legs
are needed. yes Wynne is my fav too, hes just been unlucky with
the two penalty calls.

How is that hate for Dero going for ya? Yeah, I guess he's the worst mistake Mo's ever made. What a terrible thing to have him on our team.:rolleyes:

Jack
05-09-2009, 09:00 PM
CHEER UP EVERYONE!

That was a MASSIVE performance by our guys. Second half was a spectacular show and a great ad for not only Toronto FC, but also the league. I'm obviously sad that we didn't walk away with a win, but 3 goals in DC and coming away from there with a point is still an amazing performance.

We're definitely on the right track. Cummins shows his brilliance with the tactics today - give him a permanent contract please.

Not yet :D

After the playoffs.

Lennon
05-09-2009, 09:00 PM
Am I the only one though that was still nervous after DeRo took back the lead? That thought "Ok, how will DC score...?"

I'm nervous every time the opponent has the ball ...

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 09:01 PM
anyway, it is what and it is, and it (the second half), was the best half of MLS regular season football I've ever watched

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 09:01 PM
So Wynne handled the ball deliberately?


LAW 12 - FIFA:



A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player
commits any of the following three offences:
• holds an opponent
• spits at an opponent
• handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his
own penalty area)
A direct free kick is taken from

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html

If a player's hands are in an unnatural position and he prevents a goal scoring opportunity then it is a hand ball. In this case, that's exactly what happened. Wynne has a serious problem not keeping his hands close to his body.

napoli73
05-09-2009, 09:01 PM
Gotta mention how much of an impact Vitti made coming on today. He completely set up the second goal by keeping the ball in. Also his possession caused DC problems and gave our guys a break. He's great!

That foul on him near the end should have been called. Not sure if bringing Dichio was a good idea...but looking at the bench we really don't have quality defenders.

marquis
05-09-2009, 09:01 PM
This is the 3rd time (once a year) against DC United he's given up the winning or tying penalty. The first one was when he tripped up that player and we lost at BMO. Then we blew a 2-1 lead at DC when Dichio had a double. Now this year when DeRo had a double.

This is an alarming trend.

To be fair, we would've blown that 2-1 lead with or without Wynne's penalty...Carver was incapable to change something when DC was all over us. As a comparison, Cummins moved really fast after their goal tonight and the game changed immediatelly. I'm so happy Carver is not the coach any more...

rocker
05-09-2009, 09:02 PM
You know whats scary? The fact that we'd probley be 2-6-1 without DeRo.

well, that's the way it is with all great players in MLS.

Without Huckerby, San Jose is the worst.
Before Blanco joined Chicago, Chicago was near the bottom.
Imagine taking Juan Pablo off NY last year ... no playoffs and no MLS Cup appearance for them.

Great players lift their teams up.

trane
05-09-2009, 09:03 PM
^ If Mighty ever agrees with me, I will have to seriously reconsider my position on that particular question.

Pyeddo
05-09-2009, 09:03 PM
DeRo ate 2 boots and got a yellow? Gotta find that ruling guideline in my FIFA handbook

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 09:04 PM
CHEER UP EVERYONE!

That was a MASSIVE performance by our guys. Second half was a spectacular show and a great ad for not only Toronto FC, but also the league. I'm obviously sad that we didn't walk away with a win, but 3 goals in DC and coming away from there with a point is still an amazing performance.

We're definitely on the right track. Cummins shows his brilliance with the tactics today - give him a permanent contract please.
it's probably just post-game shock there Super, in response to just missing a win... once a few hours pass, we'll be more grateful...

marquis
05-09-2009, 09:04 PM
CHEER UP EVERYONE!

That was a MASSIVE performance by our guys. Second half was a spectacular show and a great ad for not only Toronto FC, but also the league. I'm obviously sad that we didn't walk away with a win, but 3 goals in DC and coming away from there with a point is still an amazing performance.

We're definitely on the right track. Cummins shows his brilliance with the tactics today - give him a permanent contract please.

Totally agree - it's night and day between Cummins and Carver when it comes to tactics and understanding the game.
Great game, we finally have a team and a coach!

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 09:04 PM
To be fair, we would've blown that 2-1 lead with or without Wynne's penalty...Carver was incapable to change something when DC was all over us. As a comparison, Cummins moved really fast after their goal tonight and the game changed immediatelly. I'm so happy Carver is not coach any more...

I'm with you 100%. The differen Cummins showed today is that he realized what he did the first half wasn't working. Nothing wrong with trying things so long as you can adjust. He completely changed the dimension of the game with some key substitutions.

sully
05-09-2009, 09:05 PM
Well, Sully, how do you determine "deliberately" in the flash of a second it takes to make the call? Especially when we all know what good actors players are.

The refs can't watch replays.

if a ball strikes the hand or arm and the player doesn't have an opportunity to move his arm or hand away from the ball well then there is no intent. flash of a second? I don't have a difficulty with seeing that the ball struck Wynne and Wynne didn't have a chance to get out of the way of the ball...and further Wynne didn't create any clear advantage for his team in that moment...

jloome
05-09-2009, 09:05 PM
Were we out of subs there at the end? THought we had one left and was surprised we didn't use it, to slow things down and get a breather.

Very unlucky draw. Ref has to call that because there's two DC players beyond Wynne, but it's very hard to keep your arm in when you're pivoting, with your back to the ball.

billyfly
05-09-2009, 09:06 PM
it's probably just post-game shock there Super, in response to just missing a win... once a few hours pass, we'll be more grateful...

That's how I feel. Need to walk to Tim's and get a coffee and cool off.

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 09:06 PM
DeRo ate 2 boots and got a yellow? Gotta find that ruling guideline in my FIFA handbook

You never know. For all we know he called him a cunt. We don't know why he got the yellow, but we do know that Pontius deserved a yellow as well.

werewolf
05-09-2009, 09:06 PM
Well, Sully, how do you determine "deliberately" in the flash of a second it takes to make the call? Especially when we all know what good actors players are.

The refs can't watch replays.

ball to hand or hand to ball? That is a determination that professional officials are paid and trained to make.

A one-off maybe so, but Toledo again...IT'S A DISGRACE!!!

(can we got a Drogba smiley doing the "safe" arm motion?)

MrHawk
05-09-2009, 09:06 PM
Wynne moved his arm towards the ball.

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 09:06 PM
Were we out of subs there at the end? THought we had one left and was surprised we didn't use it, to slow things down and get a breather.

Very unlucky draw. Ref has to call that because there's two DC players beyond Wynne, but it's very hard to keep your arm in when you're pivoting, with your back to the ball.

We were out. Vitti, Dichio and Ricketts were subbed in. Ricketts came in at the 87th minute.

Beach_Red
05-09-2009, 09:06 PM
You can actually feel this team starting to gel and gain confidence.

trane
05-09-2009, 09:07 PM
That foul on him near the end should have been called. Not sure if bringing Dichio was a good idea...but looking at the bench we really don't have quality defenders.

Dichio did, well. He caused shit, and him and Vitti continued pressure on their backs. The problem in the game is that we are tiered as the team and were not defending or attacking with the necessary vigour but with so many game it is to be accepted. The only question with cummins in comming out with a 4-4-2 which just does not work for us, but he fixed things quickly. This was very close to a 2-1 victory until they all got tiered.

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 09:07 PM
ball to hand or hand to ball? That is a determination that professional officials are paid and trained to make.

A one-off maybe so, but Toledo again...IT'S A DISGRACE!!!

(can we got a Drogba smiley doing the "safe" arm motion?)

that's not true, it can be ball to hand and still be a penalty if his arms are in unnatural position. It's not a disgrace, and the rule book isn't black and white either. The ref has to make a decision in the heat of the moment.

H Bomb
05-09-2009, 09:08 PM
ball to hand or hand to ball? That is a determination that professional officials are paid and trained to make.

A one-off maybe so, but Toledo again...IT'S A DISGRACE!!!

(can we got a Drogba smiley doing the "safe" arm motion?)


we have a winner. this is correct

marquis
05-09-2009, 09:09 PM
I'm with you 100%. The differen Cummins showed today is that he realized what he did the first half wasn't working. Nothing wrong with trying things so long as you can adjust. He completely changed the dimension of the game with some key substitutions.


Exactly. Cummins definitelly understands the game, while Carver was completely clueless. I think we would've been in playoffs last year with Cummins in charge.

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 09:09 PM
You can actually feel this team starting to gel and gain confidence.

That is true.....last year, if we were down a goal, there was no way we`d come back........we came back twice today (once when we were tied).

UltraSuperMegaMo
05-09-2009, 09:09 PM
I was impressed with N’Silu. I think TFC still isn’t quite there with the forwards we have in the squad, I think a player like N’Silu would do very well with TFC.

TFC USA
05-09-2009, 09:09 PM
How is that hate for Dero going for ya? Yeah, I guess he's the worst mistake Mo's ever made. What a terrible thing to have him on our team.:rolleyes:

Bet you he'll say it's a one-off and still a bad decision.

Pyeddo
05-09-2009, 09:09 PM
You never know. For all we know he called him a cunt. We don't know why he got the yellow, but we do know that Pontius deserved a yellow as well.

I guess? Personally I think the ref fucked the call up. He just never seems like he's in control of any match he offciates.

trane
05-09-2009, 09:09 PM
Were we out of subs there at the end? THought we had one left and was surprised we didn't use it, to slow things down and get a breather.

Very unlucky draw. Ref has to call that because there's two DC players beyond Wynne, but it's very hard to keep your arm in when you're pivoting, with your back to the ball.

I agree with this. It is just that Wynne tends to play most of the time with his arms to far out.

TicTacTabarnack
05-09-2009, 09:10 PM
DeRo ate 2 boots and got a yellow? Gotta find that ruling guideline in my FIFA handbook

You'll only find it in Baldomero Toledo's abbreviated version for games vs. TFC

Up The TFC
05-09-2009, 09:10 PM
ball to hand or hand to ball? That is a determination that professional officials are paid and trained to make.


Totally...

I always think of it as the accidental penalty. It's like, is the arm making the body bigger? If so, then, yeah, you have to call that a penalty. It's like a mistimed slide tackle might still be a penalty, even if he was 'going for the ball'.

wzhxvy
05-09-2009, 09:10 PM
At the end of the day happy with the outcome and the play of the majority of our guys. Some great performances today, not just Dero. One thing I have to say though, what is Guevara doing ???? This is like the third game, where he has been absolutely disengaged, losing balls, poor passing and just little energy. Anyways...too bad we didnt win, this is a tough stretch of the schedule so I cant complain about a tie in DC !!! :-)

Pyeddo
05-09-2009, 09:11 PM
You'll only find it in Baldomero Toledo's abbreviated version for games vs. TFC

LOL.... seriously.

napoli73
05-09-2009, 09:11 PM
Dichio did, well. He caused shit, and him and Vitti continued pressure on their backs. The problem in the game is that we are tiered as the team and were not defending or attacking with the necessary vigour but with so many game it is to be accepted. The only question with cummins in comming out with a 4-4-2 which just does not work for us, but he fixed things quickly. This was very close to a 2-1 victory until they all got tiered.

Yes, but when Nana went down and needed to be subbed it left a big hole that our bench could not fill...it's shame because he was having another good game.

sully
05-09-2009, 09:11 PM
Exactly. Cummins definitelly understands the game, while Carver was completely clueless. I think we would've been in playoffs last year with Cummins in charge.

yeah, pleasantly surprised with how in-tune with the game Cummins is...I don't think Carver was clueless, but Cummins seems to make decisions quicker and more decisively.. great stuff...let's take away the 'interim' in his title..(for now)

H Bomb
05-09-2009, 09:11 PM
that's not true, it can be ball to hand and still be a penalty if his arms are in unnatural position. It's not a disgrace, and the rule book isn't black and white either. The ref has to make a decision in the heat of the moment.

Hey man, this is like saying George Bush shouldnt be critisized cause his job is hard. I agree with your position on unnatural positions. I disagree that this is a case of that. His arm was low, and close to his body, the ball had not been shot so he was not stop a clear goal scoring opportunity...not a penalty....not in any decent league at least...it is one in MLS


Not sad that, just a little dissapointed with the finish...great performance by the team and Cummins

trane
05-09-2009, 09:12 PM
^ I think he is just tiered. I thought he would be rested this game.

TicTacTabarnack
05-09-2009, 09:13 PM
You can actually feel this team starting to gel and gain confidence.

Completely agree and it shows with the guys being able to switch up positions and tactics on the fly like we saw tonight.

Pachuco
05-09-2009, 09:14 PM
Hey man, this is like saying George Bush shouldnt be critisized cause his job is hard. I agree with your position on unnatural positions. I disagree that this is a case of that. His arm was low, and close to his body, the ball had not been shot so he was not stop a clear goal scoring opportunity...not a penalty....not in any decent league at least...it is one in MLS


Not sad that, just a little dissapointed with the finish...great performance by the team and Cummins

So we'll agree do disagree on what actually transpired on the play. But honestly, I see horrendous calls in every league I watch, including the World Cup.

S_D
05-09-2009, 09:14 PM
anyway, it is what and it is, and it (the second half), was the best half of MLS regular season football I've ever watched

Agreed. A very entertaining match. I will take a point on the road vs. DCU.

I feel sorry for Wynne, he played a great game. He has to learn to balance without sticking his arms out. Hard to do though when you are as fast as he is. I liked what I saw from Cronin when he took the ball off of his face, tucked his arms behind his back.

I saw a little blame on Cummins for the lineup. From what I heard on the telecast, DD was a bit sick as was Robbo, so they were kept off of the pitch. Got to play with the players who are healthy.

Good game from the kids again. Dero awesome. Nice sub taking Barrett off as he seemed to inefffective to me. Maybe trying to prevent the cramps since he has played quite a bit lately.

trane
05-09-2009, 09:16 PM
Beach Red, put it this way we did not have our best game, in particular fitness wise and not our best 11, Harmse playing, and Serioux playing out of possition. Some bad brakes. But at the end of the day wy tie the team at teh top of the stading, and after teh first 30 minutes I thik we were teh better team.

TicTacTabarnack
05-09-2009, 09:16 PM
I liked what I saw from Cronin when he took the ball off of his face, tucked his arms behind his back.

That was a quality block!

H Bomb
05-09-2009, 09:17 PM
So we'll agree do disagree on what actually transpired on the play. But honestly, I see horrendous calls in every league I watch, including the World Cup.

agreed, the world cup is worse refereeing because they take refs from all over the world. But this league DOES have worse refereeing, and any bad calls should be pointed out and pushed to the forefront, because it's not acceptable

marquis
05-09-2009, 09:19 PM
Beach Red, put it this way we did not have our best game, in particular fitness wise and not our best 11, Harmse playing, and Serioux playing out of possition. Some bad brakes. But at the end of the day wy tie the team at teh top of the stading, and after teh first 30 minutes I thik we were teh better team.

I thought this was one of the best games TFC ever played...especially against DC, where losing (badly) was always the norm. I take a big positive out of this game.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-09-2009, 09:19 PM
^ If Mighty ever agrees with me, I will have to seriously reconsider my position on that particular question.

i agree:scarf:

Super
05-09-2009, 09:20 PM
Bottom-line: this team will make the play-offs.

That's our goal. And with Cummins and this team we'll get there.

marquis
05-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Bottom-line: this team will make the play-offs.

That's our goal. And with Cummins and this team we'll get there.

Agreed. We have a team and a coach. Finally.

OneLoveOneEric
05-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Very strong performance from our boys. I never weighed in on the DeRo hate because it is just so preposterous. Although his goal celebration is still cringeworthy.

tml
05-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Hey anyone know how many TFC fans made the trek? I saw for a split second a bunch were in the upper bowl..300-500 fans??

Roogsy
05-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Amateurs know to put their arms out of harm's way. Shoot...you guys are right in pointing out Cronin as being well taught to put it behind him and take a shot in the face like a champ.

If they need to dedicate an entire training session to doing this, they have to teach Marvel to keep his arms to his side or behind him. These arms flailing like sheets in the wind is going to cost us more PKs. Knock it off Wynne.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-09-2009, 09:22 PM
How is that hate for Dero going for ya? Yeah, I guess he's the worst mistake Mo's ever made. What a terrible thing to have him on our team.:rolleyes:


Its still there..thanks for asking.....I feel toward him as most TFC fans felt toward Cunningham.....

S_D
05-09-2009, 09:23 PM
And one more thing we should celebrate.... TFC is scoring goals this season. No longer can teams sit on their laurels when they are up 1-0 or 2-1. TFC has the offensive weapons to make a comeback :)

cy43
05-09-2009, 09:23 PM
3-3 away to the conference leaders... I'll take it. A bit unfortunate not to come out with all 3 points but again 3-3 away to DC is a good result.

Most encouraging is 2 goals from the run of play. DeRo took over that half which was nice to see, look like the dudes still a massive impact player. Vitti was pretty impressive in my opinion, his work lead to Serioux's goal, I just wish he was more direct, he seems to want to play pass which is strange for a striker. Stefan Frei is unreal, his distribution gave us goal 1 and he had a a game saver in the second half.

Wayy to go.

Roogsy
05-09-2009, 09:24 PM
Ok guys...stop provoking Mighty. He has his opinion and as way off as it may be, it's his. If we don't want to keep hearing it, let's stop asking for it.

Pigfynn
05-09-2009, 09:24 PM
Bottom-line: this team will make the play-offs.

That's our goal. And with Cummins and this team we'll get there.

Agreed...totally.


:scarf:

S_D
05-09-2009, 09:27 PM
Amateurs know to put their arms out of harm's way. Shoot...you guys are right in pointing out Cronin as being well taught to put it behind him and take a shot in the face like a champ.

If they need to dedicate an entire training session to doing this, they have to teach Marvel to keep his arms to his side or behind him. These arms flailing like sheets in the wind is going to cost us more PKs. Knock it off Wynne.

Agreed. If they can't teach Wynne to keep his hands to his sides and keep his balance, maybe I will offer him a few sessions in my Judo club to teach him. :D

Nuvinho
05-09-2009, 09:28 PM
Chicago 1-1 NE FullTime

helps us out.

MrHawk
05-09-2009, 09:30 PM
Ok guys...stop provoking Mighty. He has his opinion and as way off as it may be, it's his. If we don't want to keep hearing it, let's stop asking for it.

It's my post and I'll provoke him if I want to.

;)

koryo
05-09-2009, 09:31 PM
His arm was low, and close to his body, the ball had not been shot so he was not stop a clear goal scoring opportunity...not a penalty....not in any decent league at least...it is one in MLS


Not sad that, just a little dissapointed with the finish...great performance by the team and Cummins

Whether the penalty given tonight was a correct interpretation of the handball rule or not is by the by. Fact is, in this league, the referee will point to the spot whenever contact is made between ball and hand inside the 18 yard box. Rightly or wrongly, this won't change.

So yes, Wynne needs to learn to keep his hands to himself. The more disturbing call for me was Dero getting a yellow after that DC fellow put his boot into his face. That for me is a straight sending off.

But all that aside, here's what I saw tonight:

1. we started off absolute shit and I thought we would get massacred

2. we held them off after the first goal and went into half-time with a chance of getting back in the game

3. after a few minutes of pressure early in the second, we score an ugly route 1 goal. We're back in it.

4. We start applying some pressure by attacking and trying to win the ball.

5. Serioux whops in a beautiful header to put us ahead.

6. THIS IS WHAT KILLED US TONIGHT: a few minutes after the Serioux goal, we stop trying to win the ball and start giving DC space to move it around. This is why we concede the second goal.

7. DeRo's second: a thing of beauty and about time from him.

8. Two questionable calls in injury time. Baffling because I thought the ref had done a decent job up to that point. Well, decent for the MLS at any rate.

The penalty didn't kill us. We did ourselves by letting DC back into the game when we were up 2-1. We have no control over erratic officiating, but we do have control over how much a team can climb back into a game.

EOD, it's the fact that we let DC swan back into this that cost us the three points tonight.

But, and this is why I'm okay with the result, we showed some backbone tonight by fighting back to take the lead and then taking it again. I didn't think this team had that sort of graft in them.

billyfly
05-09-2009, 09:33 PM
Ok guys...stop provoking Mighty. He has his opinion and as way off as it may be, it's his. If we don't want to keep hearing it, let's stop asking for it.


I triple dog dare you Roogsy to find on this board 1 instance where I have. :)

S_D
05-09-2009, 09:34 PM
It's my post and I'll provoke him if I want to.

;)

:poke:












:D

Phil
05-09-2009, 09:38 PM
Whether the penalty given tonight was a correct interpretation of the handball rule or not is by the by. Fact is, in this league, the referee will point to the spot whenever contact is made between ball and hand inside the 18 yard box. Rightly or wrongly, this won't change.

So yes, Wynne needs to learn to keep his hands to himself. The more disturbing call for me was Dero getting a yellow after that DC fellow put his boot into his face. That for me is a straight sending off.

But all that aside, here's what I saw tonight:

1. we started off absolute shit and I thought we would get massacred

2. we held them off after the first goal and went into half-time with a chance of getting back in the game

3. after a few minutes of pressure early in the second, we score an ugly route 1 goal. We're back in it.

4. We start applying some pressure by attacking and trying to win the ball.

5. Serioux whops in a beautiful header to put us ahead.

6. THIS IS WHAT KILLED US TONIGHT: a few minutes after the Serioux goal, we stop trying to win the ball and start giving DC space to move it around. This is why we concede the second goal.

7. DeRo's second: a thing of beauty and about time from him.

8. Two questionable calls in injury time. Baffling because I thought the ref had done a decent job up to that point. Well, decent for the MLS at any rate.

The penalty didn't kill us. We did ourselves by letting DC back into the game when we were up 2-1. We have no control over erratic officiating, but we do have control over how much a team can climb back into a game.

EOD, it's the fact that we let DC swan back into this that cost us the three points tonight.

But, and this is why I'm okay with the result, we showed some backbone tonight by fighting back to take the lead and then taking it again. I didn't think this team had that sort of graft in them.

That sums it up for me overall. I thought we went into that defensive shell and that is not the way to win game in this league.

Jack
05-09-2009, 09:41 PM
After watching it again, there's no question that Wynne needs to keep his arm in there. No question!

Pigfynn
05-09-2009, 09:43 PM
He even looked at the ball, as it came up.

mastermixer
05-09-2009, 09:48 PM
I think the fatigue finally caught up to them by the end of the game. 3 games in a week (4th coming up in a few days) and it was supposedly really humid and like 30 degrees down there. Regardless, I'll take the point on the road against the 1st place team.

T_Mizz
05-09-2009, 09:50 PM
I think the problem with Wynne's arms is that when he's on the pitch his instincts are that of an athlete an he was just trying to get in position as quick as possible. However, he needs to think like a footballer and always have those arms in so at least there's a case for ball to hand. This is what Cronin did and we've noticed.

Also I was looking at the match tracker and it said that both Sutton and Edwards were on the bench? That can't be true is it? I mean I know it really doesn't matter because whoever else would've been there (Gomez?) wouldn't have played but I've just never seen that before.

Mak
05-09-2009, 09:57 PM
1. Barret sucks crap
2. Full marks to Cummins. A lot of positives have been mentioned in earlier threads, which I will not repeat.
3. De Ro is awesome.

4. But, but, but....we gave up the game to DC. yes they got the penalty, but we let up with a 2-1 lead going into the final 15 mins. We stopped pressing, stopped attacking, sat back and let DC come at us. We gave them all the space in the world, without any pressure.

Yes it was a good second half, but you cannot just give up and sit back. Forget about just sitting back, we watched them come at us.

Overall, we were lucky with coming out with a point. We didn't deserve to win the game with the lack of effort in the final 10-15 minutes. It wasn't the ref's fault that we sat back and put ourselves into a position to give up 3 points.

Barret is crap.

Let's be positive though....we came out with a point....scored 3 goals...DeRo was great. Next stop Montreal. :)

iansmcl
05-09-2009, 10:07 PM
^^^ See Koryo's post for my full thoughts on tonight's game. Agreed on everything there.


Were we out of subs there at the end? THought we had one left and was surprised we didn't use it, to slow things down and get a breather.

Yeah, we used them all. Vitti, Dichio, Ricketts.


I liked what I saw from Cronin when he took the ball off of his face, tucked his arms behind his back.

And if I'm not mistaken he could actually use his hands to protect his face/head from the ball too.
Though it's almost like a well-written novel... laying in some important information in the first bit that will come in extremely important in the end.

Nerepis
05-09-2009, 10:07 PM
Next stop Montreal. :)

I think Dichio may start in the Limpact game a nice rest today, just a few minutes play to loosen those tired, old, legs and already to go. I do fear that the tank will be empty (for the whole team) the last 20 minutes against Montreal, too many games too close together.

Stryker
05-09-2009, 10:21 PM
Ricketts managed yet again to look like crap in the few minutes given to him.
Turned the ball over, committed a reckless foul and ran around the pitch flailing his arms around like his hair was on fire.
Can we just unload him already.

ringoquads
05-09-2009, 10:28 PM
Ill post it again in here...

When does Wynne stop being 'unlucky' and start being 'careless'?

Agreed. He's cost us 4 points in 3 weeks.....fuck!!!

Sullivan
05-09-2009, 10:34 PM
A valuable AWAY point earned at RFK.
Very entertaining 2nd half.
I like the attempt to play possession, but the number of hospital balls is alarming - maybe the transition to grass...
Still too compact, really need to bring in the width and patience, forcing that short quick pass not always the best option.
Club still plays too pedestrian, more movement off the ball is required by everyone.
Disappointed with the amount of time and space conceded to United, especially through the middle third.

DC looked / played fitter; and they too played midweek!

DeRo & Chris Cummins = Men of the Match.
DeRo for his effort and leadership.
Cummins for his in-game tactical acumen.

DeRo/Pontius incident, really exposes MLS's defeciency in officiating.

Both the Pontius goal and the PK were end results of poor and careless play by TFC players in giving the ball away; its one thing to be tackled and separated from the ball, but unforced turnovers is unacceptable!


Boys need to learn how to play defending a lead with 10 minutes to play. You just can't give the ball away.

Frei - played the first goal poorly, his poor clearance punch came back at him; otherwise a steady performance.
Attakora is coming along, more playing time and match experience will smooth his game over.
Velez is not a 90 minute player - he wasn't pressured often, but when he was he was reckless; otherwise a decent effort.
Serioux - a warrior tonight. Always compossed.
Brennan - very pedistrian, many mis-steps tonight. It'll be this season when opposing teams start exposing him.
Harmse - a misfit in sequence passing, the broken link in the chain. He shouldn't be playing 90 minutes over a full season!
Wynne - great athlete, sub par fullback. In my mind that was a "ball-to-hand", however....
Cronin - did well, lots of motion, movement and decent distribution.
Guevera - needs to impose himself more, more movement off the ball to get the ball back. And get him off the park when defending a lead - he just doesn't challenge, win loose balls or tackles.
DeRo - was the engine tonight.
Barrett - clueless but a flawless 2nd half...
Vitti - if he were to get better service and support, we'd see more from him.

Dichio's mere presance gave DC defenders something to think about, but he did little with his 15 minutes. Get him the ball, let him hold it and get the support to him.

Rickets did a great Robby Savage imitation with his couple of minutes.

Except on DeRo's goal, Jakovic played well for DC - very consistent, more good decisions than bad.


HEY MO!
TFC still really need a CB and a poacher.

TFC07
05-09-2009, 10:35 PM
DeRo, Serioux and Attakora really stood out for me tonight.

Cummins gets full marks today. But I don't understand why he started the game with 4-4-2? I thought we were going to stick 4-3-3 and if we are down, then 3-5-2.

Barrett needs to benched.

If we had decent LB, then Jimmy B should benched as well. He got expose (especially in the first half) by DC United. He's having a below average season.

But in the end of day we still got a result on the road even though we should won this game.

On a side note, why the hell didn't Mo try to get Dejan Jakovic? He is decent CB and plus he is young and a Canadian (I believe he is from Toronto).

Yohan
05-09-2009, 10:37 PM
I was a bit baffled by Cummins's decision for lineup. I thought it was 5-3-2.
Props to him for changing things up when the boys were getting overwhelmed. Seemed that the boys gave DC too much respect.

Whole game I cringed whenever DC put a ball in our penalty box. This defensive frailty needs to be worked on.

Game of two halves. DC dominated first half, TFC 2nd half.

DeRo. Giant among men tonight. Good to see him get his scoring touch back!

Serioux. Another giant. Massive in the back.

Was very entertaining game though.

Jack
05-09-2009, 10:37 PM
We need to get more depth.

Our depth is definitely better, but most of these teams are playing cup games as well as league games, so we need some more players out there to fill in.

Notice that DC's subs were the difference-makers.

Stryker
05-09-2009, 10:38 PM
I was surprised at how tightly Attakora was able to play his man and not get burned.

TFC07
05-09-2009, 10:41 PM
DC looked / played fitter; and they too played midweek!


Interesting point, but I think DC United starters were mostly made up by bench players unlike TFC who put on their best team on the pitch beginning of the game.

shepherd2
05-09-2009, 10:45 PM
Plan for the next practice: Wynne's hands taped to his waist. I'm watching the U17 finals...Even these kids are aware enough to bring thier hands into their hips when they are defending a kick inside the box.

Edit: I spoke too soon...Hand ball by Brazillian Romario.

Edit: Off topic - Brazil wins on the 9th round of PKs. This was a quality tournament to watch.

GuelphStorm2007
05-09-2009, 10:53 PM
You know I would have been pleased with a point at RFK proir to this game. Especially in the past they have always been pitifull there . But watching tonite I was very pleased on how the played with the exception of the first 7minutes, and the last 10 minutes. of course . Another thing I was pleased with was 6 Canadians playing on the field tonite, on either side. and all of TFCs goals were scored by Canadians. DeRO with 2 and Serouix with 1.

Yohan
05-09-2009, 10:54 PM
I'm still outraged by the DeRo mugging, and the blatant foul on Vitti that didn't get called in injury time

I loved the fact that DeRo and the Big Man made DC defender their bitches.

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 10:56 PM
what i don't like is that Pontius will be allowed to play, while DeRo will have that yellow to his name... which is bs...

can yellow cards be appealed?

either way, this game has me optimistic for Wednesday, I see maybe a 2-0 win

TFC07
05-09-2009, 10:58 PM
You know I would have been pleased with a point at RFK proir to this game. Especially in the past they have always been pitifull there . But watching tonite I was very pleased on how the played with the exception of the first 7minutes, and the last 10 minutes. of course . Another thing I was pleased with was 6 Canadians playing on the field tonite, on either side. and all of TFCs goals were scored by Canadians. DeRO with 2 and Serouix with 1.

Notice how all CDN players celebrate the goals together?

ricciboy
05-09-2009, 11:02 PM
:( sad ending

Oldtimer
05-09-2009, 11:04 PM
A tie at RFK is very hard to get, a win is even harder, so despite being very disappointed at not getting 3 points, it's not really a bad result.

I have to say I am quite impressed with Cummins tactical ability. I'm very glad that he's coaching our team. The best coaches have good tactical ability. Cummins has potential to be a very good MLS coach. First, step, though, the VC, then the MLS playoffs.

I am concerned about the Montreal game. I'm afraid our squad will be too tired to take it to them and MTL might squeek out a win. This is where our depth will be tested, for sure.

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 11:14 PM
Chicago 1-1 NE FullTime

helps us out.
it's happened a lot lately... the other East teams, have really done us a lot of favours so far this year, with draws... take for example DC and KC drawing on Sat night, and then Columbus beating KC tonight... along with NE and Chicago drawing...

tlear
05-09-2009, 11:14 PM
US teams usually dont care at all about cup games.. our guys played a ton of games recently, this is why we had problems in the end. Guys were just tired.

Overall awesome game (except the tiredness and ref who decided to be a moron in the end)

Our road play is FAR better then we ever had before, these games are now actually fun to watch

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 11:18 PM
A tie at RFK is very hard to get, a win is even harder, so despite being very disappointed at not getting 3 points, it's not really a bad result.

I have to say I am quite impressed with Cummins tactical ability. I'm very glad that he's coaching our team. The best coaches have good tactical ability. Cummins has potential to be a very good MLS coach. First, step, though, the VC, then the MLS playoffs.

I am concerned about the Montreal game. I'm afraid our squad will be too tired to take it to them and MTL might squeek out a win. This is where our depth will be tested, for sure.
Meh, it's less acceptable when you're winning heading into extra time... if we were losing then tied it up, or if it was a stalemate all game long, then it would be tolerable...

Say what you want about how hard it is to get points in DC, when you go into added time leading, you should be able to finish it with a win... sure our players were tired, but that was a missed opportunity to jump into first...

I'm about 65% satisfied with the draw today...

I agree with Cummins, and he really gave that team a jolt, and I am impressed by his tactics as well

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 11:19 PM
US teams usually dont care at all about cup games.. our guys played a ton of games recently, this is why we had problems in the end. Guys were just tired.

Overall awesome game (except the tiredness and ref who decided to be a moron in the end)

Our road play is FAR better then we ever had before, these games are now actually fun to watch
best 2nd half I've seen for MLS

greatwhitenorf
05-09-2009, 11:20 PM
I really like Pablo Vitti's ball sense. He has really begun to show his ability in recent games and he is showing a teriffic sense of positioning, timing and awareness of his teammates.

He made that goal by Serioux happen with some great hustle to chase down the ball rolling out and draw the foul.

Overall, a great effort by TFC and a good road result in a tough stadium to win in.

rocker
05-09-2009, 11:24 PM
interesting how our home and road records are almost identical.
in the first two seasons we had a massive difference between home and away.
not sure what that means.. but it's definitely different watching this team on the road than the teams of Season 1 and 2.

but this penalty stuff is pissing me off. I remember Pozniak barely touching a guy in year 1 and getting a penalty. I remember that so-called tug on a shirt in Dallas by Julius James last year, leading to a penalty. Marvell Wynne pushed a guy down one year and got a penalty. its scary that I can remember all these nightmares.. but it was always a close game and the penalty costed us points.

egoodwin
05-09-2009, 11:27 PM
interesting how our home and road records are almost identical.
in the first two seasons we had a massive difference between home and away.
not sure what that means.. but it's definitely different watching this team on the road than the teams of Season 1 and 2.

but this penalty stuff is pissing me off. I remember Pozniak barely touching a guy in year 1 and getting a penalty. I remember that so-called tug on a shirt in Dallas by Julius James last year, leading to a penalty. Marvell Wynne pushed a guy down one year and got a penalty. its scary that I can remember all these nightmares.. but it was always a close game and the penalty costed us points.
most if not all of them this year have been handballs though...

Super
05-09-2009, 11:41 PM
Well, it's been a few hours, and I must say I'm in a splendid mood. I've never felt this optimistic about our chances this season, and quite frankly I'm really happy with the team as a whole and Cummins as coach. I'm VERY pleased with our position in the league, and I think we have every chance to finish in the top 4 of the total standings. On top of that I really like our chances against Montreal as well on Wednesday, and I feel very confident that we'll win the Canada Cup.

It's been a strange and often times rough first two seasons, but now I feel as if we've come into our own and we're starting to see what it is going to be like to support a truly competitive football club.

Smile, people. This season has lots of joy to come!

Lucky Strike
05-09-2009, 11:44 PM
As always, I invite to check out my player ratings.

http://64.13.252.151/forums/showthread.php?p=513256#post513256

iansmcl
05-09-2009, 11:59 PM
what i don't like is that Pontius will be allowed to play, while DeRo will have that yellow to his name... which is bs...

Pontius was carded.
http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20090509&content_id=250739&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

Probably should've been a red though. That was very dangerous (two kicks to the head???) play by him.

this is joga
05-10-2009, 12:05 AM
i can't believe what i've read in this post so far, does no-one see how poorly wynn has played? ... and i don't mean the hand ball/ball to hand in the box (twice this season) thats just shit dumb luck, could've happen to (almost) anyone.

for most of last season and all of this season - its been even more evident in the last 3 or 4 games - he has no idea where to be when without the ball. no idea what to do when he gets the ball. and besides he's blazing speed has no business being on any pitch in any league anywhere.

watch him closely. he doesn't close down space properly. he doesn't mark his man properly. he lets opponents run right by him while he's staring at the ball instead of watching where players are running or trying to read the play (this happened most noticeably on DC's 2nd goal) all game tonight i was screaming at my TV (and my brother) wynn's play really got under my skin, even more than in person (if you could believe that Rooney?) wynn should be on the pine - and maybe joining someone's soccer school.

how has he gone this long in his footie career? definitely not with soccer smarts. not with his soft touch. not with his first touch. not with his defending. plan and simple, its his speed - if it wasn't for his screamin' speed he wouldn't be playing this sport professionally. and in my opinion that is not enough reason for an individual to be a professional (in any sport).

can someone please tell me what he does right? why has wynn played all 720 minutes this season?

isn't it time to give someone else a look? i know we don't have too much depth on D, although there has to be someone else that can fill in - for the time being - until we find/trade/sign another full back to play in his place. maybe gabe gala? maybe one of the Gambians? (i know sanyang can't play until he turns 18 on aug 1st, i'm sure gomez can play)

ok, i'm done with my rant.

- joga

twistedchinaman
05-10-2009, 12:07 AM
After being down 1-0 I thought to myself, "oh no not again..."

But man, striking back within a single minute. DeRo, you sodding beauty. That second goal should've been the winner...still, after letting DC run amok in the first half, this result isn't that bad. But then again, I'll sound like a broken record, but damn those two extra points would've been mighty nice.

Onward to the Limpact and the Flameouts!

Jack
05-10-2009, 12:09 AM
I've been thinking about that, Joga.

If Nana turns out to be able to give us some minutes and get the job done, we might try Serioux over there. He played there a lot for Dallas.

Super
05-10-2009, 12:15 AM
can someone please tell me what he does right? why has wynn played all 720 minutes this season?

Wynne is strong and has fantastic pace and is able to create chances out of nowhere. Yes, he does have short-comings, but we've seen how he is able to run up the flank and turn the tide of play simply with his pace. He hasn't been as great so far this season, but I thought he was quite strong today (disregarding the unfortunate handball).

twistedchinaman
05-10-2009, 12:18 AM
I've been thinking about that, Joga.

If Nana turns out to be able to give us some minutes and get the job done, we might try Serioux over there. He played there a lot for Dallas.

I have to +1 on your point as well Joga. Wynne, even on a good day (unless he creates a goal) is pretty much silent. Sometimes, he's like the yeti -- we don't know if he exists or not! At least that's how I see it anyway.

As for the handballs...

One is dumb luck
Two is what the...?
Three, are you joking?
Four...now you're just a fucking idiot.

Let's hope we never get to four.

this is joga
05-10-2009, 12:18 AM
Jack, that is a good idea. i didn't think of that.
from what i saw from nana tonight and even more against the whitecaps, this kid can play.. and hopefully will play. he definitely played himself into CB tonight with his play wednesday night, maybe playing serioux on the right is a possibility - i didn't know he played RB last season.

give 'er a try cummins... pleeeeeeeeeeease!

twistedchinaman
05-10-2009, 12:23 AM
Jack, that is a good idea. i didn't think of that.
from what i saw from nana tonight and even more against the whitecaps, this kid can play.. and hopefully will play. he definitely played himself into CB tonight with his play wednesday night, maybe playing serioux on the right is a possibility - i didn't know he played RB last season.

give 'er a try cummins... pleeeeeeeeeeease!


Nana has proven a couple times he's an asset. A little more work, and damn, Jack's idea might work and pay off dividends like Churchill Downs last weekend.

(Damn, that was the worst analogy ever.)

morgank1986
05-10-2009, 12:25 AM
Nothing we say about Wynne on here will rival what he's putting himself through right now.

twistedchinaman
05-10-2009, 12:28 AM
Nothing we say about Wynne on here will rival what he's putting himself through right now.

That's true. But this isn't the first time. Is there ANY way the guy stop making his hand into a ball magnet? I just don't get what he's doing wrong to be honest.

But man, the guy...just so silent most times until shit like this hits the fan. It's not even funny. :(

this is joga
05-10-2009, 12:34 AM
my complaints regarding wynn has nothing to do with his recent game deciding in box hand ball/ball to hand - i'm assuming thats why morgank thinks he's beating himself up. IMO this guy has no reason being a pro footballer. if he wants he can play with my sunday team, but playing MLS or USNT or where ever else he was rumored to play (europe) this guy is garbage. plan and simple.

remember when edu was sold to rangers all the rumours saying wynn was next to head over sea.. i still can't stop laughing at those rumours.

Kevvv
05-10-2009, 12:38 AM
Don't think I've seen it mentioned; Cummins said 5 guys had food poisoning, including Dichio, Serioux, and Robbo. That would explain why they seemed to lack energy.


http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=651

twistedchinaman
05-10-2009, 12:40 AM
my complaints regarding wynn has nothing to do with his recent game deciding in box hand ball/ball to hand - i'm assuming thats why morgank thinks he's beating himself up. IMO this guy has no reason being a pro footballer. if he wants he can play with my sunday team, but playing MLS or USNT or where ever else he was rumored to play (europe) this guy is garbage. plan and simple.

remember when edu was sold to rangers all the rumours saying wynn was next to head over sea.. i still can't stop laughing at those rumours.

He's had his share of brilliance in year 1, but now he's really fallen off the wagon. It's gonna take a shitefucken load of work before anyone can say "Wynne to Europe" with a straight face ever again -- if it's not already too late!

dupont
05-10-2009, 01:13 AM
holy fuck! what an exciting game! We could have won it but I am still proud of this team. It was a nice game and they really showed some character to charge back in the 2nd half.
We are a MUCH better team than last year.

Derko
05-10-2009, 01:18 AM
CHOP OFF WYNNE'S HANDS !!!! UGHHHH this is so frustrating ... how many points have we dropped in ET on the road!?! Happenes all the fucking time ...

I was thinking the same thing, I think we might see Sutton on Wednesday against Montreal, Frei needs a rest, IMO

Dub Narcotic
05-10-2009, 01:22 AM
This was a great point in a bogey stadium in tough conditions. As many others have mentioned, this has to be one of the first times that TFC has come back to get points when down. I thought Serioux was a complete hero, playing well despite being obviously fatigued. De Rosario was also amazing.

BTW, this should have been the game on CBC after the NHL spot. This might have been the best played and most entertaining game in TFC's history.

Inswingingwingman
05-10-2009, 04:13 AM
The first half scared me. I thought it would be 3 or 4 nil.

Good 2nd half, amazing.

Refs should not decide the game in injury time. It's like calling a double minor in overtime during hockey. You have to send the guy to the hospital with his eye on the ice before that happens.

A PK is what 89 percent going to be a goal? I understand the ball being placed there for kids footy, but really, there should be an option.

At the end of the day the result is OK, but we let 2 points and first place slip away, it was either bias, bad luck, or once again they've seen the tapes and shoot the ball at someone's hand.

Pookie
05-10-2009, 06:38 AM
I don't know whether to be happy or sad.

On one hand, with the illnesses and playing away, to come out with a draw against the conference leaders is great.

On the other, to give up the lead, twice, is reminiscent of last season that ended just 4 points out of the playoffs.

On one hand, most of Frei's field length kicks fell harmlessly into the arms of the United Keeper, resembling a game of catch and essentially killed any chance of earning possession up field.

On the other, it lead to our first goal.

On one hand, our start was absolute crap. You had to wonder if we had enough men on the field.

On the other, we settled down and played extremely hard up until taking the 2-1 lead. We then seemed to revert back to the game of crap. Only to take it up a notch to go up 3-2.

On one hand, Wynne's penalty was unfortunate. On the other, seemed United was going to score one way or another.

On one hand, I can understand guys playing sub par after food poisoning.

On the other, why sub in Dichio (one of the food poising guys) for a Defender when you have the lead?

There were some quality (arguably but at least healthy and not heat exhausted) players on the bench such as Ricketts and Smith. There are other rookies that haven't played yet. Point being, they'd be fresh and it's clear that our back end ran out of gas.

On one hand, I criticize the sub decisions.

On the other, going to 3-5-2 was a great tactical decision that resulted in getting the lead in the first place.

Bah, time to get ready for Chicago. Fire are undefeated.

giambac
05-10-2009, 06:47 AM
compared to last year, when we are down a goal on the road, we are able to come back.

compared to last year we still give up fucken goals late in a game. we should have had 3 points yesterday. Yes a draw on the road vs a quality team is good but we let 2 points get away. These 2 points can make a difference at the end os seson.

giambac
05-10-2009, 06:49 AM
holy fuck! what an exciting game! We could have won it but I am still proud of this team. It was a nice game and they really showed some character to charge back in the 2nd half.
We are a MUCH better team than last year.

Funny how this team looked brutal the first 5 matches of the season . The past 5 they have looked much better (i Believe we haven't lost yet).

Is it a coincedence??????:rolleyes::scarf:

Fushida
05-10-2009, 07:31 AM
I don't know whether to be happy or sad.

On one hand, with the illnesses and playing away, to come out with a draw against the conference leaders is great.

On the other, to give up the lead, twice, is reminiscent of last season that ended just 4 points out of the playoffs.

On one hand, most of Frei's field length kicks fell harmlessly into the arms of the United Keeper, resembling a game of catch and essentially killed any chance of earning possession up field.

On the other, it lead to our first goal.

On one hand, our start was absolute crap. You had to wonder if we had enough men on the field.

On the other, we settled down and played extremely hard up until taking the 2-1 lead. We then seemed to revert back to the game of crap. Only to take it up a notch to go up 3-2.

On one hand, Wynne's penalty was unfortunate. On the other, seemed United was going to score one way or another.

On one hand, I can understand guys playing sub par after food poisoning.

On the other, why sub in Dichio (one of the food poising guys) for a Defender when you have the lead?

There were some quality (arguably but at least healthy and not heat exhausted) players on the bench such as Ricketts and Smith. There are other rookies that haven't played yet. Point being, they'd be fresh and it's clear that our back end ran out of gas.

On one hand, I criticize the sub decisions.

On the other, going to 3-5-2 was a great tactical decision that resulted in getting the lead in the first place.

Bah, time to get ready for Chicago. Fire are undefeated.

how many fingers you got on your hands man? :P

but the dichio sub was because nana cramped up. i was just wondering why we didn't have any defensive subs... we had both edwards and sutton on the bench but no defenders... that's why we had to sub on dichio.

Blazer
05-10-2009, 08:01 AM
Ill post it again in here...

When does Wynne stop being 'unlucky' and start being 'careless'?

Yeah, Wynne hasn’t been blessed with superb football savvy, he’s just lightning fast is all. That alone makes him a quality MLS defender but nothing beyond, at least not at this point anyway. You’re right, the first hand ball left me questioning his soccer acumen and many limitations. The second handball last night however just confirmed my initial supposition – he desperately lacks football awareness and makes up for it with his quicks. That’s about all you can expect and ask from him, I suppose?!

Blazer
05-10-2009, 08:08 AM
Don't think I've seen it mentioned; Cummins said 5 guys had food poisoning, including Dichio, Serioux, and Robbo. That would explain why they seemed to lack energy.


http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=651

Gosh, I really hope that there was something to the food poisoning hypothesis because otherwise, the conditioning of this team is moving in the wrong direction. The desire to win might have been there in the last 20 minutes or so, but the legs and lungs sure as hell weren’t.

Nuvinho
05-10-2009, 08:08 AM
Note to self: Don`t eat food in DC.

ensco
05-10-2009, 08:12 AM
Who cares whether we won or tied. Well OK, I care, but the objective is get some results while developing consistency, and get hot in the second half of the year. That's how MLS works.

That, and play some entertaining football.

We have 2 losses in 9 games.

We are right on track.

Blazer
05-10-2009, 08:28 AM
Who cares whether we won or tied. Well OK, I care, but the objective is get some results while developing consistency, and get hot in the second half of the year. That's how MLS works.

That, and play some entertaining football.

We have 2 losses in 9 games.

We are right on track.

Yes, but by the same token we have just the 3 wins in our first 9 and an unimpressive even goal rating. Thank god for a weaker Eastern conference, but we’ll need to be better (and we will) if we want to get a sniff of post season action.

Nuvinho
05-10-2009, 08:35 AM
Chicago has 2 wins in 8 games. As long as we get as many max. points at home, getting road ties is good.

ensco
05-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Yes, but by the same token we have just the 3 wins in our first 9 and an unimpressive even goal rating. Thank god for a weaker Eastern conference, but we’ll need to be better (and we will) if we want to get a sniff of post season action.

Give me some good football, some scrappy results on the road, we'll figure the rest out later.

swan
05-10-2009, 08:59 AM
Tuck his arms to his body like every defender is taught to do. I learned this at 8, he should know by now. He played a good game. But he needs to learn.

so you can run with your arms behind your back... i can see if you are trying to block a shot but both hand balls have been when he is running, he does swing them pretty good when he runs but i guess thats how he gets so much speed..

egoodwin
05-10-2009, 09:05 AM
it's only a matter of time until we finally get a come from behind victory, we were soooooooooooo close lastnight...

and, it's only a matter of time until someone (DeRo, Guevara, someone else) scores a hat trick...

koryo
05-10-2009, 09:15 AM
so you can run with your arms behind your back... i can see if you are trying to block a shot but both hand balls have been when he is running, he does swing them pretty good when he runs but i guess thats how he gets so much speed..

I think the point that's being made is that if you're in the penalty area, don't flail your arms about. Rightly or wrongly, it's going to cost your team.

But then this is coming from an armchair coach who can't run...period :)

ensco
05-10-2009, 09:28 AM
I think the fact that's it's happened twice to Wynne is more coincidence than anything.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Beach_Red
05-10-2009, 09:34 AM
it's only a matter of time until we finally get a come from behind victory, we were soooooooooooo close lastnight...


Yes, and only a matter of time till we start holding leads - this team is completely different than last year's, they're confident. They're only going to get better.

Who would have imagined getting a point in DC without Robbo in the line-up?

olegunnar
05-10-2009, 09:35 AM
so you can run with your arms behind your back... i can see if you are trying to block a shot but both hand balls have been when he is running, he does swing them pretty good when he runs but i guess thats how he gets so much speed..

It's the balance between technical ability and athletic ability.

Wynn is still too much athlete and not enough technical player

With his athletic ability, if he could ever improve his technical side he'd be a great player.

Until then he'll give us joy with incredible runs and great back tracking, but give us pain with terrible crosses, bad positioning and awkward and untimely penalties conceded.

That is If the technical improvement ever happens. He still seems to be the same player he was today that he was in 2007.

ensco
05-10-2009, 09:45 AM
The penalties are unlucky. We don't spend one-tenth as much time discussing Brennan, and he's been worse than Marvell in 2009.

Yohan
05-10-2009, 09:53 AM
so anyone know how many supporters made the trip to DC?

Pookie
05-10-2009, 10:09 AM
Thank god for a weaker Eastern conference, but we’ll need to be better (and we will) if we want to get a sniff of post season action.

True and don't forget that the playoff format changed this year.

Top 2 teams in each conference get in. The next best 4 teams from either conference make it.

Take a look at the Western teams and the fact that 3 of them are all either tied or within 2 points of us. Seattle, Houston, and Colorado have played 2 less games. RSL is 3 behind with a game in hand.

Now look back to the east. 3rd place Chicago have a game in hand and are 1 point back. NE, even though 4 points behind in 5th place, have played 2 fewer games.

She's a close one this. Next week vs Chicago is a big one for us.

Beach_Red
05-10-2009, 10:09 AM
The penalties are unlucky. We don't spend one-tenth as much time discussing Brennan, and he's been worse than Marvell in 2009.


Who is the back-up for Brennan?

Nuvinho
05-10-2009, 10:12 AM
Who is the back-up for Brennan?

Gala.

Yohan
05-10-2009, 10:20 AM
Gala.
Serioux didnt look out of place at LB last game, although he only played part of the game.

rocker
05-10-2009, 10:30 AM
I don`t think Marvell is "unlucky".

I think he's just not particularly aware of what's going on at times and it costs us.

Marvell is clear and away the career penalty leader on TFC with 5 penalties.
His penalties over 3 seasons have cost us 2 wins and 3 ties, for 9 points.
We've had a lot of penalties over the years, which cost us probably 21 points.. so Marvell's contribution makes up 43% of our lost points due to penalties.

TFC has also been consistently worse (better??? ha!) than the league average at earning penalties.
I'm not gonna say it's the refs' bias. I think when your defenders aren't as talented as those around the league, you'll suffer. Marvell is clearly a part of that problem.

in 2007, TFC suffered 14% of all penalties, even though they were 1 of 13 teams (7.6% of the league)
in 2008, TFC suffered 12.5% of all penalties, even though they were 1 of 14 teams (7.1% of the league)
in 2009, TFC has suffered 21% of all penalties, even though they are 1 of 15 teams (6.7% of the league).

for whatever reason, TFC suffers more than its fair share of penalties.

Stryker
05-10-2009, 10:58 AM
The fact that we'd be sitting second in the overall standing right now if not for the handball has my stomach in knots.

Jack
05-10-2009, 11:08 AM
The fact that we'd be sitting second in the overall standing right now if not for the handball has my stomach in knots.
But at the same time it's a good thing.

But for a couple of handballs, we would be tops in the east and second overall in the league.

So that says something about how we've played.

Things are looking much better for us and we are starting to gel!

Beach_Red
05-10-2009, 11:18 AM
But at the same time it's a good thing.

But for a couple of handballs, we would be tops in the east and second overall in the league.

So that says something about how we've played.

Things are looking much better for us and we are starting to gel!

And if there's any truth to that, "It all evens out in the end," we're going to finish this season strong - when it really counts.

jwfm1985
05-10-2009, 11:35 AM
So much negativity! We scored 3 goals in DC, Just think about that for a second! I know it hurts to not come away with the full 3 points, but we played a great game and I think it is a deserved result.

Bottom line is we are a top team in the east, with a strong upward trend. Cummins is starting to bring out the potential we all saw with this team in the beginning of the season and as Jack said, we are starting to gel. Keep this pace up and we will be in the playoffs and playing some of the top Mexican teams through the champions league later in the year - although the tie feels like a loss, I'm still really excited

Keegan
05-10-2009, 11:52 AM
What signings Serioux and Dwayne have been. They have really taken over this team and account for 5 of the teams 13 goals and neither have played very forward. Both have been involved always, even look at Harmse's goal vs. Vancouver DeRo dominated that match.

As it stands now player of the year is without a doubt one of those two.

TFC_Toon
05-10-2009, 11:58 AM
Busting with pride with the way the lads performed last night, a changed lineup and a goal down early, we dug in and got back into the match, Cummins tactical changes both with subs and on the fly were spot on. We had it in us to fight back and take the lead twice! The club showed character and resolve last night and by doing so have sent a clear message to the rest of the league and their supporters that we will be a force to be reckoned with this year.

Well done TFC!

marquis
05-10-2009, 05:28 PM
[/b]

Funny how this team looked brutal the first 5 matches of the season . The past 5 they have looked much better (i Believe we haven't lost yet).

Is it a coincedence??????:rolleyes::scarf:
No, there's no coincidence:)

Blazer
05-10-2009, 06:49 PM
Give me some good football, some scrappy results on the road, we'll figure the rest out later.

Amen!

MFBODD
05-10-2009, 07:09 PM
We all knew going into this season that we aren't exactly strong on defense. Just making the playoffs and getting past Vancouver/Monreal will be forward steps for this club. We're still early in 2009 and if we keep moving in this direction we will all be very happy in the near future.

You gotta love the fact that DeRo is on this club...

Cambridge_Red
05-10-2009, 10:18 PM
so anyone know how many supporters made the trip to DC?

There was about 40 or so of us. We were loud as hell, they had us couped up in the second deck. That stadium is literally falling apart.

trane
05-11-2009, 09:15 AM
I think the point that's being made is that if you're in the penalty area, don't flail your arms about. Rightly or wrongly, it's going to cost your team.

But then this is coming from an armchair coach who can't run...period :)

That is the point.

I admit I am also a an armchair coach, my running days are long behind me, and I was never fast. I am not trying to teach Wynne, how to run or play, but trying to keep your arms in is prety basic stuff. He had a great game otherwise, and if it were the first time I would have not said anything.

trane
05-11-2009, 09:32 AM
It's the balance between technical ability and athletic ability.

Wynn is still too much athlete and not enough technical player

With his athletic ability, if he could ever improve his technical side he'd be a great player.

Until then he'll give us joy with incredible runs and great back tracking, but give us pain with terrible crosses, bad positioning and awkward and untimely penalties conceded.

That is If the technical improvement ever happens. He still seems to be the same player he was today that he was in 2007.

Agreed. Again this is not to attack Wynne, I would not replace orsit him at RB, but the truth is the truth.

Ensco, yes there is an ellement of luck in penalties, but Olegunne r said it correcelty he is awkward , and it has cost us more then two penalties and many points over the three seasons.

KrazyKanadian
05-11-2009, 09:32 AM
Hey anyone know how many TFC fans made the trek? I saw for a split second a bunch were in the upper bowl..300-500 fans??

Considering 1 NEE is equal to 10 other supporters, yeah, 300-500 sounds right.

Cannon
05-11-2009, 11:01 AM
Note to self: Don`t eat food in DC.

You might want to rethink that. My group had a local friend play tour guide and we ate at a place called "Five Guys, Burgers and Fries"

Best burgers I've ever had. Hands down!!