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Mojo
05-06-2009, 10:00 PM
So, 4000 less than a sellout, is that tickets sold or people in the stadium?


What can contribute to something like that...

Weather?
Lack of advertisement for the NCC?
Week-day night game with a rare 8pm start?

InTheCrowd
05-06-2009, 10:03 PM
First of all it's not an MLS game, second of all the whole weekday 8:00 thing makes a big difference. I didn't expect many people and right before the game started the stadium was like half empty and I thought it would stay like that. Luckily it didn't and believe it or not I was thankful to hear 16.011 (I thought it would be less), but inside it still hurts me.

:scarf:

Detroit_TFC
05-06-2009, 10:08 PM
I don't understand this. The game was part of the ST package, don't they usually count those as paid attendance?

Keyman
05-06-2009, 10:09 PM
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that they changed it up this year and started counting at the gate, instead of paid attendance.

BRed
05-06-2009, 10:13 PM
Scalpers have OFFICIALLY infested "this is OUR HOUSE!"

mclaren
05-06-2009, 10:14 PM
Unfortunately, we will always have fairweather fans.

profit89
05-06-2009, 10:18 PM
Roof = 20K every game.

InTheCrowd
05-06-2009, 10:19 PM
Roof = 20K every game.

Many of which will be SOOOFT!

mlsintoronto
05-06-2009, 10:21 PM
It was a boo boo. An early number got related to the PA guy. The actual was over 19800

Detroit_TFC
05-06-2009, 10:21 PM
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that they changed it up this year and started counting at the gate, instead of paid attendance.


[never mind, saw Paul's clarification]

cy43
05-06-2009, 10:24 PM
guys you sounded great regardless on the tele, the massive was massive.

Bars92
05-06-2009, 10:26 PM
A CC game is so far below a league game. Lets be realistic.

Waggy
05-06-2009, 10:28 PM
Ya, at the game when they announced the attendence, everyone around me was shocked. It actually was more crowded than I'd figured it'd be on a Wed at 8pm in the rain. So Pauls explination makes sense.

billyfly
05-06-2009, 10:30 PM
It was a boo boo. An early number got related to the PA guy. The actual was over 19800


Thanks Paul for the info.

rocker
05-06-2009, 10:38 PM
Ya, at the game when they announced the attendence, everyone around me was shocked. It actually was more crowded than I'd figured it'd be on a Wed at 8pm in the rain. So Pauls explination makes sense.

same here... it didn't look THAT much less than a typical weeknight game. I was guessing about 18500... but it's hard to tell when the rain falls, cuz a lot of unprepared pussies go running for the concourse...

but as mentioned, the crowd was great.. chants were just as loud as ever... and quite nice to see that Massive go from the south east corner to the north west.

pepher
05-06-2009, 10:38 PM
Scalpers have OFFICIALLY infested "this is OUR HOUSE!"

I don't know how many of you came down from the parking lots near Lamport but the scalpers up there had 'fans' of tickets they were trying to unload. Don't know where they get them but there were a lot of them!

Sad....

bhoybobby
05-06-2009, 10:43 PM
Good turnout on a shitty night

Yohan
05-06-2009, 10:57 PM
looked halfway 2nd half and east end looked half empty

nfitz
05-06-2009, 11:00 PM
My guess is that the mistake was announcing the actual attendance than the paid attendance that normally get's announced!

ExiledRed
05-06-2009, 11:05 PM
Good turnout on a shitty night

It was a great night. The rain was nothing more than a fine mist, and I didn't even notice it. I've been out in the rain all night, and my jacket is barely damp. Also, the great thing about the rain was that it kept the bugs away.

I can't believe anybody who's lived in this country through the winter would consider it bad weather.

ExiledRed
05-06-2009, 11:07 PM
My guess is that the mistake was announcing the actual attendance than the paid attendance that normally get's announced!

No, there is no way that 4000 seats were empty. Tonight was a good one.

Mojo
05-06-2009, 11:08 PM
A CC game is so far below a league game. Lets be realistic.

Should be above. More meaningful return (in my personal opinion) plus there are far less games meaning much greater reward/consequence.

nfitz
05-06-2009, 11:08 PM
No, there is no way that 4000 seats were empty. Tonight was a good one.That's only one in 5. Doesn't seem that far off ... looked more like 2 in 5 in the dark greys and reds. Wasn't quite 1 in 5 where I was in the light greys, but I'd guess 1 in 8.

Bluenose13
05-06-2009, 11:10 PM
It was a boo boo. An early number got related to the PA guy. The actual was over 19800Yeah....That makes more sense......At about the 15 minute mark it looked pretty packed.

ricciboy
05-06-2009, 11:11 PM
im guessing it was a late game cause it was

ilikemusic
05-06-2009, 11:14 PM
Paul, maybe I could offer a suggestion or two to help awareness for this tournament.

I look at the Whitecaps FC homepage, and under their mens first division bar (which isnt something that is good, but not really relevant to my point) the CDN Championship is listed as a separate entity, right under their normal schedule.

Not that it is a big thing, and not that it would make a huge difference, but maybe on the TFC site, under schedule, you could have CDN Championship listed as a seperate entity like on the Caps site.

And I know im just nitpicking, but I think putting the games in with the rest of the schedule and throwing a cheap looking '%' sign, doesnt do much to make these games look distinctive, or special. Generally speaking, and especially in sports, if there is some kind of asterisk or symbol after something, it has negative connatations. Maybe ditch the % and just highlight the NCC games in bright red.

These game are playoff games; The only ones this city is liable to see for quite some time (and nobody kinx the Jays with a mention!). You guys could do more to present them as such.

Obviously the crappy weather for every weeknight game so far isnt helping any, but maybe making more of a stink about the Canadian Championship could help things along.

/trivial nitpicking :scarf:

werewolf
05-06-2009, 11:21 PM
even if it was 16,000, that is still double what DC United got at home in the US Cup FINAL last season (which itself was double the highest numbers for any other team/games).

Roogsy
05-06-2009, 11:25 PM
It was a boo boo. An early number got related to the PA guy. The actual was over 19800

That makes more sense. I definitely did not see 4000 seats empty. Thanks!

rocker
05-06-2009, 11:27 PM
ya... 4000 people is a lot to be missing. that would be the equivalent of more than teh whole south end being completely empty of fans... or a bit less than the whole upper deck west side empty.

Jack
05-06-2009, 11:28 PM
No way this was a sellout.

I personally saw a few hundred scalper tickets in the hands of the scum on my walk down from Shoeless. There were still tons available at the box office and people were practically giving tickets away outside gate one.

19800 is a very optimistic number, to say the least.

The shine is off. The honeymoon is over. The team needs to win, which they did tonight.

It's not just about a mid-week game. There are hundreds of tickets available on the STH ticket trader for most games. Seats outside the south end are readily available from many different sources. Walkup sales are easily attainable.

This is not the hot ticket that no one can get anymore. DP time?

Time to start winning? Yes. Football supporters will not settle for mediocrity. Things are going reasonably well so far this season and still tickets are much more available than they were in seasons one and two.

Don't expand. Make the stadium better. Bring in grass and a world class DP, but don't make the mistake of expanding. The hottest seats in the house are the cheapest and you can't fund an expansion on cheap seats.

Cambridge_Red
05-06-2009, 11:30 PM
Couldn't agree with you more Jack.

Nice to see you in the parking lot btw :)

mastermixer
05-06-2009, 11:32 PM
^^^+1

Toronto Ruffrider
05-06-2009, 11:32 PM
Yeah, that 16,000 number seemed way too low. I knew that couldn't be paid attendance, since season ticket and partial packs alone would eclipse that number. An attendance of 19,800 seemed more plausible than 16,000.

As an added bonus, I'm glad I didn't see many fairweather fans today. The guys who have tickets directly in front of me weren't there, which suits me just fine - they never watch the game, they talk about anything but footy, and they're constantly jabbering on their phones.

Roogsy
05-06-2009, 11:34 PM
Don't expand. Make the stadium better. Bring in grass and a world class DP, but don't make the mistake of expanding. The hottest seats in the house are the cheapest and you can't fund an expansion on cheap seats.

I agree. Expanding right now is a mistake.

Expansion would cost what? 20mill? And there will be many games where the stadium is not sold out.

For much much less....you can bring in a DP which will bring in much more advertising, sponsorship and television money.

So in my opinion, it makes more sense to bring in a DP than to spend on expansion.

Cambridge_Red
05-06-2009, 11:35 PM
Actual physical attendance was horrible, perhaps the scalpers had a bad day at the office. I couldn't see many of your average Joe's being interested in going tonight....bad weather, a non league game (Yes I know this cup is huge for us) so anyways its these average Joe guys that are picking up these scalped and ticket spares.. They fill the gaps so to speak.



P.S. on a happy note the cross field massive was brilliant, worked perfectly I could see all of 110 - 113 chanting right us awesome work guys..

egoodwin
05-06-2009, 11:37 PM
may have been 16,000

but it sounded like 50,000

Toronto Ruffrider
05-06-2009, 11:39 PM
may have been 16,000

but it sounded like 50,000

That's what counts. Quality is more important than quantity, and the stadium had a good vibe tonight. Well done all around!

egoodwin
05-06-2009, 11:41 PM
afterall, it's not like those who stayed home because of the start time/rain, would have added much to the atmosphere anyway (except for some notable exceptions such as Flush)

Blizzard
05-06-2009, 11:56 PM
It was a boo boo. An early number got related to the PA guy. The actual was over 19800

Ooops! That's good news actually! :D

Cashcleaner
05-07-2009, 12:01 AM
I can think of several reasons for the smaller crowd tonight. Firstly, it was mid-week and the weather was cold and wet. We weren't facing a downpour, but we certainly did not enjoy spectacular weather either.

The big contributor I would wager on is the fact that because it's not a league game, people just think its a meaningless friendly. There were plenty of people around me and on the train and bus ride home that weren't really cluing in to what the competition is really about.

james
05-07-2009, 12:03 AM
ive seen games in the passed where they have said the attendence for tonights game is 20,000 and i look at the crowd and see like at least 3,000 empty seats and thinking no way its sold out. tonight they said 16,000 and i looked at the crowd and thought ya that looks right.

james
05-07-2009, 12:05 AM
may have been 16,000

but it sounded like 50,000

i think it was the best atmosphere we had all year. we actually did the massive acorss the stadium to!!!!

ensco
05-07-2009, 07:01 AM
Not much point arguing over attendance. It's the squishiest reported number in sports. Same with season ticket waitlists, by the way.

I think Jack is sorta kinda right. There has been an been a big uptick in tickets available on the SSH site, and Ticket Trader on this site doesn't work well, like it used to. But it's all at the margin. There have always been lots of empty seats on rainy nights in May and October. So it's hard to tell whether it's a slight, or really significant, fall off in interest.

Agree 1000% that grass and the DP should come before expansion. To quote a famous man: "The scarcity of the ticket is TFC's number one asset"

boban
05-07-2009, 07:04 AM
im guessing it was a late game cause it was
I think for evening games 8PM is perfect.
Anything earlier and you are left with fighting through traffic and rushing from work.

Fort York Redcoat
05-07-2009, 07:16 AM
The number was surprising since most times the announcer goes higher and not lower than actual attendance but I've always thought it was worthless anyway. You want to announce a sellout crowd as a thank you? Fine. I don't need to know. I can use my eyes.

Erkan16
05-07-2009, 07:50 AM
the suits stayed home. and thats the way i want it. this aint your grandparents favorite hockey team.

Yohan
05-07-2009, 08:39 AM
the suits stayed home. and thats the way i want it. this aint your grandparents favorite hockey team.
man, there were couple of drunken idiots on the special people box and they were annoying as hell, making stupid comments and mocking the chants

when one dude said something like 'those people need to get a real job', referring to NEE going nuts during one of the chants, i almost climbed up the box and make this guy wish his dad never had dirty thoughts about his mom.

fracking oxygen thief

phonzo
05-07-2009, 08:42 AM
man, there were couple of drunken idiots on the special people box and they were annoying as hell, making stupid comments and mocking the chants

when one dude said something like 'those people need to get a real job', referring to NEE going nuts during one of the chants, i almost climbed up the box and make this guy wish his dad never had dirty thoughts about his mom.

fracking oxygen thief

they mock the chants yet they are there for the "atmosphere".../confused face

the rain wasn't even that bad last night...actually it was a fabulous night :)

jabbronies
05-07-2009, 08:45 AM
This number pisses me off.

I tried to get 40 tickets for my work peeps only to have my ticket rep say everything was sold out. And then to find out that only 16,000 either showed up or paid for tickets!!! something is fucked here.

Maple Leaf Red
05-07-2009, 09:24 AM
This number pisses me off.

I tried to get 40 tickets for my work peeps only to have my ticket rep say everything was sold out. And then to find out that only 16,000 either showed up or paid for tickets!!! something is fucked here.

The tickets were sold as mlsintoronto noted. There were almost 400 available on the STH Exchange yesterday along with a good number of RPBs breaking their backs trying to get rid of tickets.

What might help is doing something about scalpers...

tfc007
05-07-2009, 09:28 AM
Guys I think we are going to see alot of empty seats this year,I think this is due to a couple of reasons, first we are in a recession and people are not spending as much,second I think some of the TFC novelty is starting to wear off.I have had season tickets from day one and I had hundreds of people asking me for tickets or begging me to take them to the game.This year is a different story,first I have 2 season tickets and I have attended a couple of games by myself because I couldnt find anyone to go with me.I am having hard time everygame to find someone to go.If it continues like this I am just going to buy one season ticket next year.I find this year people arent hounding me like before! Its just to bad.

Mark in Ottawa
05-07-2009, 09:29 AM
Yes last nights game was part of my "ransom pack" season ticket package - B.
A week night game is hard for me as a fan "from away" and knowing I would not be making it to the game I made sure the ticket went into the hands of an RPB member at the May 2nd tailgate.

Watched the game on the PVR at midnight last night after work.
Finally a game where they can't blame the rain on me :rolleyes:

Carefree
05-07-2009, 09:36 AM
From where I was sitting at the bottom of 221 I had a good view of the east and south stands. On the east side, except for 110 and 111 which were absolutely packed, the rest looked about 30-40% empty. In the south, 112 and 113 looked packed but the rest looked about 20% empty. I assumed it was about the same on the west side, so I actually thought the 16,000 figure was a bit high. Maybe a lot of people spent a lot of time on the concourse.

The singing sounded awsome btw! :)

KShep121
05-07-2009, 09:39 AM
My guess is that the mistake was announcing the actual attendance than the paid attendance that normally get's announced!


This is bang on. Truth is, all sports teams make up the attendance numbers, which is usually an non-scientific percentage higher than the actual attendance. If 17,000 + people enter BMO on any given day, announced attendance is along the lines of "20,128" which is actually completely made up (probably by Paul). Leafs, Raptors, Argos, Rock, etc all do this; leafs less than others as 99.8% of seats do have someone in them.

16,011 is probably the actual number and PA guy made a boo boo as he was supposed to announce "19,812". I'd say that most reg season games have around 17.5-18K enter the grounds despite what is announced.

flatpicker
05-07-2009, 10:02 AM
Don't expand. Make the stadium better. Bring in grass and a world class DP, but don't make the mistake of expanding. The hottest seats in the house are the cheapest and you can't fund an expansion on cheap seats.


Very realistic statement Jack.

Whenever I have promoted the idea of expansion, it was always for cosmetic reasons.
I thought have corners closed in would be nice or a small North stand that would accommodate all supporter club member so that our voices could be united and strong.

But those would all be cheap seats, and as you say, you can't fund expansion with cheap seats.
It would have to be done for the sake of BMO's appearance and atmosphere.
I don't doubt that if more cheap seats were built, they could be filled.
But I would imagine MLSE makes more money off the beer garden than they would off of cheap seats.

Whatever the case, it's something I hope MLSE thinks long and hard about.
I wouldn't want anything done that hinders what we have now.

GBV
05-07-2009, 10:36 AM
16,000 sounds about right to my eyes.

GBV
05-07-2009, 10:42 AM
This is bang on. Truth is, all sports teams make up the attendance numbers, which is usually an non-scientific percentage higher than the actual attendance. If 17,000 + people enter BMO on any given day, announced attendance is along the lines of "20,128" which is actually completely made up (probably by Paul). Leafs, Raptors, Argos, Rock, etc all do this; leafs less than others as 99.8% of seats do have someone in them.

16,011 is probably the actual number and PA guy made a boo boo as he was supposed to announce "19,812". I'd say that most reg season games have around 17.5-18K enter the grounds despite what is announced.

i find the whole practice of "artificial attendance" beyond insulting.
but, yeah, happens everywhere.

alexintoronto
05-07-2009, 10:43 AM
It was a boo boo. An early number got related to the PA guy. The actual was over 19800
aka 19,800 tickets sold; 16,011 people showed up?

Look at all the empty seats (pictures from KK)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3509517177_07cce792a3.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3313/3510333132_ff4be16045.jpg?v=0

Ladies Love Julius James
05-07-2009, 10:44 AM
16,000 sounds about right to my eyes.


Seconded.

sulfur
05-07-2009, 10:49 AM
It was a boo boo. An early number got related to the PA guy. The actual was over 19800
Can you get that corrected on your official box score then?

http://web.mlsnet.com/scoreboard/game.jsp?match=05062009_ZZZTOR

It reports 16011 there too.

Vancity RED
05-07-2009, 10:56 AM
Ya - it looked a little bad on the TV when they panned the east side. When you can make out the maple leaf pattern it's not a good thing.

I would suggest that there is one more reason for weak-ass attendence: NHL playoffs. I gotta think there are more than a few people who might have gone to this game but figured, na, forget it - why sit out in the rain when we can watch Crosby v. Ovechkin on the sofa? Sad, but true.

flatpicker
05-07-2009, 11:01 AM
^ I'm sure that playoff series has the attention of a lot of people in this city.

It might have hurt us a bit.

nfitz
05-07-2009, 11:14 AM
What play-offs? Toronto is out, Ottawa is out, Montreal is out. I suppose there are a few Detroit fans around, but they didn't play. In theory there might be Canucks fans in Toronto ... probably unlikely though, especially as I didn't see a single Vancouver fan in the away section at BMO Field last night.

I can't see the NHL play-offs being any more of an issue this year than any other year.

SteeltownBhoy
05-07-2009, 11:16 AM
The evidence is a poor turn out was there

(a) Didn't line up the bathroom.

(b) Got a pulled pork wrap and beer no line up

(c) Only waited 5 minutes to use the Bank Machine, thats a biggie!!!!!

ensco
05-07-2009, 12:21 PM
What play-offs? Toronto is out, Ottawa is out, Montreal is out. I suppose there are a few Detroit fans around, but they didn't play. In theory there might be Canucks fans in Toronto ... probably unlikely though, especially as I didn't see a single Vancouver fan in the away section at BMO Field last night.

I can't see the NHL play-offs being any more of an issue this year than any other year.

I predict Pittsburgh-Washington will do very well in the ratings, as well as Vancouver-Chicago does (outside of Vancouver of course).

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 02:38 PM
for all those wanting a 8pm kick off ...you see what you got...3,000 + empty seats...8PM is a no go and with luck TFC management got the message last night...the weather may have had a little to do with it, but not much, we had other cold wet games and got over 20,000 but change to 8pm and people cant do it....

to TFC.....NO more 8pm kickoffs:scarf:

werewolf
05-07-2009, 02:42 PM
more 8pm kickoffs:scarf:


QFT!

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 02:43 PM
Ya - it looked a little bad on the TV when they panned the east side. When you can make out the maple leaf pattern it's not a good thing.

I would suggest that there is one more reason for weak-ass attendence: NHL playoffs. I gotta think there are more than a few people who might have gone to this game but figured, na, forget it - why sit out in the rain when we can watch Crosby v. Ovechkin on the sofa? Sad, but true.


it had nothing to do with hockey mate...it was the 8pm start that killed attendance.

billyfly
05-07-2009, 02:45 PM
I love night games. I can understand how some people have a hard time getting there etc but really....its not like there was only 50% of the stadium full.

Redpunkfiddle
05-07-2009, 02:45 PM
for all those wanting a 8pm kick off ...you see what you got...3,000 + empty seats...*PM is a no go and with luck TFC management got the message last night...the weather may have had a little to do with it, bit not much, we had other cold wet games and got over 20,000 but change to 8pm and people cant do it....

to TFC.....NO more 8pm kickoffs:scarf:


What is it supposed to be? 7pm? Because as many people who missed this game can't get there in time for that hour.

People seem to be able to make evening hockey and basketball games- what is the difference here?

werewolf
05-07-2009, 02:47 PM
it had nothing to do with hockey mate...it was the 8pm start that killed attendance.


Or maybe it was a cold/rainy night against a USL team...

More night games! :flare:

werewolf
05-07-2009, 02:47 PM
What is it supposed to be? 7pm? Because as many people as missed this game can't get there in time for that hour.

People seem to be able to make evening hockey and basketball games- what is the difference here?

Plus those games end at the same time as this did last night.

alexintoronto
05-07-2009, 02:47 PM
I think 7:30 is perfect.

Game finishes at about 9:30 - good timing to catch the 10:00 Eastbound GO Train - not sure what time the westbound is. Not as much of a rush to try and get there at 7:00.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 02:48 PM
What is it supposed to be? 7pm? Because as many people as missed this game can't get there in time for that hour.

People seem to be able to make evening hockey and basketball games- what is the difference here?


Leaf hockey is 7:30 or 7pm....basketball the same..so big difference..

7pm would be better for a full house/

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 02:49 PM
Or maybe it was a cold/rainy night against a USL team...

More night games! :flare:

= more empty seats

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 02:50 PM
I think 7:30 is perfect.

Game finishes at about 9:30 - good timing to catch the 10:00 Eastbound GO Train - not sure what time the westbound is. Not as much of a rush to try and get there at 7:00.


yes it is...try telling that to TFC officals though?

ensco
05-07-2009, 02:53 PM
My guess is that the start time is 8pm to accomodate Sportsnet.

I think 7.30pm is the default start time otherwise.

Not much point discussing this, if you owned the team, you'd start half an hour later to accomodate a national TV broadcast too.

Carefree
05-07-2009, 02:56 PM
Seriously though, I know a few people on this board live quite far out of town, but what percentage of the team's fan base do these people represent? I can't believe we can't get 20,000 people who either work or live downtown to show up on time for 8pm.

The player introduction was embarrassing. The announcer started introducing the TFC players the way he always does by saying only their first name but quickly realized there was nobody in the stands to shout the last names, so he just read out the full names -- first time I've ever seen that.

What exactly is the problem with 8pm as opposed to 7pm or 7:30?

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 02:57 PM
My guess is that the start time is 8pm to accomodate Sportsnet.

I think 7.30pm is the default start time otherwise.

Not much point discussing this, if you owned the team, you'd start half an hour later to accomodate a national TV broadcast too.


there was nothing on sportsnet from 7pm to 8pm that couldnt have been
put on at 1 in the morning...they wanted tfc fans to tune into the jays telecast which is insulting enough as if we care for that team to begin with.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 03:01 PM
Seriously though, I know a few people on this board live quite far out of town, but what percentage of the team's fan base do these people represent? I can't believe we can't get 20,000 people who either work or live downtown to show up on time for 8pm.

The player introduction was embarrassing. The announcer started introducing the TFC players the way he always does by saying only their first name but quickly realized there was nobody in the stands to shout the last names, so he just read out the full names -- first time I've ever seen that.

What exactly is the problem with 8pm as opposed to 7pm or 7:30?


fir me the following i have to be on the 9:47 westbound go train from a greyhound connection to brantford @ 11:30pm...so a 8pm start means
i would have to leave BMO by 9:30 at the latest with 30 mins left in the match?? For others work and family mean much also..sorry 8pm kick offs suck shite.

werewolf
05-07-2009, 03:01 PM
= more empty seats

Let's see what next weeks game against Montreal looks like...

werewolf
05-07-2009, 03:02 PM
fir me the following i have to be on the 9:47 westbound go train from a greyhound connection to brantford @ 11:30pm...so a 8pm start means
i would have to leave BMO by 9:30 at the latest with 30 mins left in the match?? For others work and family mean much also..sorry 8pm kick offs suck shite.

What about people driving from out of town? 8pm start means they miss traffic. A 7pm start has them trying to get downtown in the middle of rush hour.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 03:03 PM
Let's see what next weeks game against Montreal looks like...


pretty much the same as last nights i predict..

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 03:04 PM
What about people driving from out of town? 8pm start means they miss traffic. A 7pm start has them trying to get downtown in the middle of rush hour.


leave earlier....park along a go route and train it in!!

ExiledRed
05-07-2009, 03:07 PM
it had nothing to do with hockey mate...it was the 8pm start that killed attendance.

Because the majority of supporters live in Brantford too, right?

Redboy11
05-07-2009, 03:10 PM
Sat night Leaf games start at 7. Weeknight Leaf games start at 7:30 to give an extra 30 mins for traffic. I need the extra time coming in from Richmond Hill. I think 7:30 is the perfect start time. 8pm will keep some families away, throw in the rain and a USL team and = some empty seats.

Carefree
05-07-2009, 03:10 PM
fir me the following i have to be on the 9:47 westbound go train from a greyhound connection to brantford @ 11:30pm...so a 8pm start means
i would have to leave BMO by 9:30 at the latest with 30 mins left in the match?? For others work and family mean much also..sorry 8pm kick offs suck shite.
I understand, and that's unfortunate for you. But my point was, how many people are in a situation similar to yours? Enough to explain 4,000 empty seats? Or are there other reasons (bad weather, non-league match, kids)?

In a city this size, aren't there at least 20,000 hardy people with disposable income, no children, who live close to downtown and have an interest in football?

werewolf
05-07-2009, 03:13 PM
leave earlier....park along a go route and train it in!!

Orrrrrrr....the game could be pushed back to accomodate the majority.

ilikemusic
05-07-2009, 03:14 PM
People seem to be able to make evening hockey and basketball games- what is the difference here?

That Union Station is easier to get to than the Exhibition grounds?

AL-MO
05-07-2009, 03:18 PM
I don't think it had anything to do with the 8 PM start.

James Oliphant
05-07-2009, 03:20 PM
It was a boo boo. An early number got related to the PA guy. The actual was over 19800

That same boo-boo is on the match reports.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 03:21 PM
I understand, and that's unfortunate for you. But my point was, how many people are in a situation similar to yours? Enough to explain 4,000 empty seats? Or are there other reasons (bad weather, non-league match, kids)?

In a city this size, aren't there at least 20,000 hardy people with disposable income, no children, who live close to downtown and have an interest in football?


quite a few if you ever ride the wastbound go to aldershot then on to hamilton, a lot of fans go that far!! weather..a minor problem, it didnt stop the other games from 20,000 this season?

mastermixer
05-07-2009, 03:22 PM
That Union Station is easier to get to than the Exhibition grounds?
Agree, huge difference in accessability. It's a lot easier to get to BMO on the weekend then during the evening rush hour.

dcdcdc
05-07-2009, 03:23 PM
Scheduling most games during cold and rainy months, and on weeknights mind you.. thats a way to kill off your fanbase. They obviously do not have regard for people who bought tickets. They blew what was a 'sure thing'. Except for hot summer days or playoff games, the days of sellouts are over.

My section was empty by half time. People can come up with a million excuses but it's just stupid scheduling

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 03:23 PM
I don't think it had anything to do with the 8 PM start.


how many of our pre 8pm games had attendances of 16,000 and change crowds? NONE!! it was the time..

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 03:24 PM
Scheduling most games during cold and rainy months, and on weeknights mind you.. thats a way to kill off your fanbase. They obviously do not have regard for people who bought tickets. They blew what was a 'sure thing'. Except for hot summer days or playoff games, the days of sellouts are over.

My section was empty by half time. People can come up with a million excuses but it's just stupid scheduling


the silly gold cup is the reason we are not playing many in july...canada should have just sent the u 20 to this tournament and let TFC have their canadian players for league matches this month..

ExiledRed
05-07-2009, 03:25 PM
get a car and stop bitching.

8pm starts fucking rule.

mastermixer
05-07-2009, 03:29 PM
bottom line is the like with any new franchise, the shine has worn off. Its now time to improve the product on the field (and make it a grass field)! That will keep the half-hearted fans interested.

ensco
05-07-2009, 03:29 PM
there was nothing on sportsnet from 7pm to 8pm that couldnt have been
put on at 1 in the morning...they wanted tfc fans to tune into the jays telecast which is insulting enough as if we care for that team to begin with.

Here's what you don't know or are ignoring.

1) The importance of the west coast audience for a national broadcast. The difference between a 4.30 and a 5pm start time for Vancouver viewers is huge.

2) Even for eastern audiences it matters to Sportsnet, and that's why it's 8pm next week too. If you start at 7.30, Sportsnet has a hole between 9.30 and 10pm EDT. This slot is a more important slot ratings-wise than 7.30-8.00 as it is the natural lead to the 10pm sportscast (or in this case, it would otherwise be an orphan between the TFC and Jays games).

Honestly I could care less. I want some weekend games so I can take my kids. At night, 7 or 7.30 or 8pm are all fine for 90% of people. If they want/need to start later for the exurbs crowd, fine by mine.

Carefree
05-07-2009, 03:30 PM
get a car and stop bitching.

8pm starts fucking rule.
:iagree:

ExiledRed
05-07-2009, 03:31 PM
bottom line is the like with any new franchise, the shine has worn off. Its now time to improve the product on the field (and make it a grass field)! That will keep the half-hearted fans interested.

Isn't this the truth.

Marketing can only take the product so far.

You want those seats filled every game, get a DP and start playing exciting football. These 1 goal games are killing me and boring the newcomers.

ExiledRed
05-07-2009, 03:33 PM
A DP for half the season is only $200,000 against the cap btw.

ensco
05-07-2009, 03:35 PM
get a car and stop bitching.

8pm starts fucking rule.

I stand corrected. 8pm is the only answer. :drum:

wzhxvy
05-07-2009, 03:35 PM
There is no way attendance was 19K yesterday...and by attendance I mean bums in seats and I will bet money on that...I dont care what anyone says...sorry Paul.

I hope this is a wakeup call to Ansalami and crew that this is not hockey...you can not have numb nuts running the team, no star players and a mediocre team... and it wont affect attendance. Btw boys, dont think for a second that these guys are not sweating it...the last thing they want is for that waiting list to vanish !!!

billyfly
05-07-2009, 03:35 PM
there was nothing on sportsnet from 7pm to 8pm that couldnt have been
put on at 1 in the morning...they wanted tfc fans to tune into the jays telecast which is insulting enough as if we care for that team to begin with.

There you go again. F your yankees!

Ladies Love Julius James
05-07-2009, 03:38 PM
There you go again. F your yankees!


:eek::eek::eek:

Oh nooooooooooo Billy.

Toronto_Bhoy
05-07-2009, 03:39 PM
No way this was a sellout.

I personally saw a few hundred scalper tickets in the hands of the scum on my walk down from Shoeless. There were still tons available at the box office and people were practically giving tickets away outside gate one.

19800 is a very optimistic number, to say the least.

The shine is off. The honeymoon is over. The team needs to win, which they did tonight.

It's not just about a mid-week game. There are hundreds of tickets available on the STH ticket trader for most games. Seats outside the south end are readily available from many different sources. Walkup sales are easily attainable.

This is not the hot ticket that no one can get anymore. DP time?

Time to start winning? Yes. Football supporters will not settle for mediocrity. Things are going reasonably well so far this season and still tickets are much more available than they were in seasons one and two.

Don't expand. Make the stadium better. Bring in grass and a world class DP, but don't make the mistake of expanding. The hottest seats in the house are the cheapest and you can't fund an expansion on cheap seats.

Give the man a cigar! He's a winner!

Jack has hit the nail on the head in the above post…the bloom is off.

There was no where near 19k in attendance last night. I've never seen so many empty seats in my section.

By the way…love 8 pm KO…more time to relax, have a chat and a pint.

BuSaPuNk
05-07-2009, 03:40 PM
get a car and stop bitching.

8pm starts fucking rule.

Ahmen!!!! :flare:

If it wasn't for the 8pm start I would have got there just in time for kickoff...and that isn't including parking and getting into the building. We all seen how traffic was getting out that is what it would be like at 6:15 - 6:30 coming into the stadium.

billyfly
05-07-2009, 03:40 PM
:eek::eek::eek:

Oh nooooooooooo Billy.


Your Yankees are ok JJ. Mighty's ain't.

Ladies Love Julius James
05-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Your Yankees are ok JJ. Mighty's ain't.


:D

The 8pm start time is a bitch if your taking the TTC.

Don Julio
05-07-2009, 03:49 PM
Guys, the CCC games last year also had terrible attendance. Nobody realizes these games are important. Half the people think they're friendlies against lower league teams. I specifically heard 5 times last night people talking about it being a friendly, or asking why we were playing Vancouver. This is what happens when you invent bullshit trophies like the Carlsberg Cup and the Trillium Cup. People start to think all trophies are just silly marketing gimmicks.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 03:52 PM
I stand corrected. 8pm is the only answer. :drum:


if you like empty seats..yes it is...

ensco
05-07-2009, 03:56 PM
This is what happens when you invent bullshit trophies like the Carlsberg Cup and the Trillium Cup. People start to think all trophies are just silly marketing gimmicks.

Nobody outside of these boards has any idea what these Cups are. That's not the issue.

This is what happens when you cut down the friendlies and take games that were previously "optional" and make the SSH pay for them.

The pricing, and perceived value, even the presentation of tickets in the SSH package, were all very confusing. The team has not marketed the CCL very well - not last year, not this year.

Stop conflating these games with the friendlies! I bet half the SSHs think these games are "freebies" and don't think much about going, or who gets the tickets if they don't.

werewolf
05-07-2009, 03:57 PM
if you like empty seats..yes it is...

and what about last year against Vancouver? that was a beautiful sunny afternoon on a holiday (mid-week, so going away isn't an excuse), and that only had 1200 more people...

Blizzard
05-07-2009, 03:58 PM
This number pisses me off.

I tried to get 40 tickets for my work peeps only to have my ticket rep say everything was sold out. And then to find out that only 16,000 either showed up or paid for tickets!!! something is fucked here.

There were hundreds available on the Season Ticket Holders ticket exchange page.

Check it out or have a STH check it out for you.

bee dubya
05-07-2009, 03:59 PM
for all those wanting a 8pm kick off ...you see what you got...3,000 + empty seats...8PM is a no go and with luck TFC management got the message last night...the weather may have had a little to do with it, but not much, we had other cold wet games and got over 20,000 but change to 8pm and people cant do it....

to TFC.....NO more 8pm kickoffs:scarf:


Are you serious? Do you understand how scheduling works? The game time had more to do with the game being broadcast in both Ontario and BC at a reasonable time for both clubs.

I agree with you that 7:30 is ideal for getting people into seats at BMO and for transportation after the game but when you're talking about national broadcasts, these are the things that have to change to accommodate other markets.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 04:00 PM
Nobody outside of these boards has any idea what these Cups are. That's not the issue.

This is what happens when you cut down the friendlies and take games that were previously "optional" and make the SSH pay for them.

The pricing, and perceived value, even the presentation of tickets in the SSH package, was made very confusing by how the team marketed this last year vs this year. I bet half the SSHs think these games are "freebies" and don't think much about going, or who gets the tickets if they don't.


the supporters wanted these seats as part of the package!!if this game had been an hr earluer you would have seen at least 18,000 to 19,000 fannies in the seats..at least

Suds
05-07-2009, 04:04 PM
Guys, the CCC games last year also had terrible attendance. Nobody realizes these games are important. Half the people think they're friendlies against lower league teams. I specifically heard 5 times last night people talking about it being a friendly, or asking why we were playing Vancouver. This is what happens when you invent bullshit trophies like the Carlsberg Cup and the Trillium Cup. People start to think all trophies are just silly marketing gimmicks.

Add in the number of homes games we have in the first two months and it is more likely people are going to blow off these games and attend the league games ... even if people own season seats they still have a limited entertainment budget to spend and going to the game has a cost.

I also find it harder to find people who want to go on a weeknight than on a weekend.

Agreed with the comments above about the schedule this year ... I think it sucks.

ensco
05-07-2009, 04:04 PM
the supporters wanted these seats as part of the package!!if this game had been an hr earluer you would have seen at least 18,000 to 19,000 fannies in the seats..at least

nope and nope. so there.

GBV
05-07-2009, 04:13 PM
i love 8 p.m. starts.
hockey games take about 2:25 to 2:45 to finish.
baseball from 2:30 to god knows when.
soccer from 1:45 to 2.
not sure i buy the people-didn't-show-up-cuz-it-started-half-an-hour-later argument.

there was just no "attractiveness" to this game for the "casual" fan (which, like it or not, makes up a good chunk of the crowd on saturdays versus MLS teams).
throw in the weather, the weeknight ... i'm not surprised. i was wagering they would be really lucky to hit 18,000.

what i don't get is how there can be such a big waiting list for season tickets yet they draw 16,000 for a game like this. you'd think those on the waiting list -- whoare willing to plunk all that cash for season tickets -- would want to capitalize on an easy chance to see a game.
maybe season ticket holder is a status thing for some, i don't know.
if you really want a ticket to a game, nine times out of 10 you can get one.
do "casuals" maybe still think tickets are impossible to come by?

James Oliphant
05-07-2009, 04:15 PM
Are you serious? Do you understand how scheduling works? The game time had more to do with the game being broadcast in both Ontario and BC at a reasonable time for both clubs.

There's a lot of "derrrr....what's a time zone?" in this thread, isn't there?

alexintoronto
05-07-2009, 04:16 PM
There's a lot of "derrrr....what's a time zone?" in this thread, isn't there?
derrrr why is TFC v Montreal at 8 PM as well?

James Oliphant
05-07-2009, 04:19 PM
derrrr why is TFC v Montreal at 8 PM as well?

Same tournament, matters just as much on the west coast.

ensco
05-07-2009, 04:20 PM
what i don't get is how there can be such a big waiting list for season tickets yet they draw 16,000 for a game like this.

These waiting list statistics are notoriously wonky. You have to adjust for pricing. Many, many people on those lists wouldn't take seats at anything other than the lowest prices, and these are the seats least likely to be available. Plus who knows what the circumstances of the person on the list will be when they clear the list?

You see this with TFC - the only real demand for tickets this year is in the south end.

There are very interesting stories emerging about these "waiting lists" for other teams, btw

http://deadspin.com/5234208/the-legendary-redskins-ticket-waiting-list-that-doesnt-exist

ExiledRed
05-07-2009, 04:20 PM
I think part of the problem is that when I cant show up, I sell my south end tickets, because I can use the money, and there are people willing to buy them.

People on the west side who've paid into the thousands for their season tickets aren't going to sell their ticket on as easily, and some have enough money not to care about filling their empty seat.

Also, if the south end wasnt stuffed over capacity with people sneaking in, the east stands might look less spartan.

ensco
05-07-2009, 04:24 PM
People on the west side who've paid into the thousands for their season tickets aren't going to sell their ticket on as easily, and some have enough money not to care about filling their empty seat.



Bingo

Marc"2L"
05-07-2009, 04:37 PM
Next year make it an option.

Sell the cup games to supporters and fans who actually know.
I was hoping the "soccer's cool" crowd was lower but as time goes on it's starting to become obvious.

If I had the cash I would of flown or bussed down from Ottawa for the game.
Fucking university.

Maple Leaf Red
05-07-2009, 04:47 PM
Scheduling most games during cold and rainy months, and on weeknights mind you.. thats a way to kill off your fanbase. They obviously do not have regard for people who bought tickets. They blew what was a 'sure thing'. Except for hot summer days or playoff games, the days of sellouts are over.

My section was empty by half time. People can come up with a million excuses but it's just stupid scheduling

Unfortunately not every game can be played during June, July and August on the weekends. If people can't make it because it's 8pm on a weeknight in May then they would probably find some other sad excuse not to attend the game.

Maple Leaf Red
05-07-2009, 04:49 PM
I think part of the problem is that when I cant show up, I sell my south end tickets, because I can use the money, and there are people willing to buy them.

People on the west side who've paid into the thousands for their season tickets aren't going to sell their ticket on as easily, and some have enough money not to care about filling their empty seat.

Also, if the south end wasnt stuffed over capacity with people sneaking in, the east stands might look less spartan.
The other part is that a lot of people, even some on this board, take the "this ticket is so hard to get!" talk literally and don't bother looking or finding out where to look. The Ticket Exchange and this board had tonnes of tickets (over 400 on the TE).

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 07:13 PM
Unfortunately not every game can be played during June, July and August on the weekends. If people can't make it because it's 8pm on a weeknight in May then they would probably find some other sad excuse not to attend the game.

its not a sad excuse its reality for travellers...8pm is just down right stupid for sporting events to ko in TO. The Leafs got away from the nonsence years ago and MLSE should have learned from that.

there could easily be more games in the summer weekend days, its not like BMO will be busy this year with league dates.

mastermixer
05-07-2009, 07:52 PM
its not a sad excuse its reality for travellers...8pm is just down right stupid for sporting events to ko in TO. The Leafs got away from the nonsence years ago and MLSE should have learned from that.

there could easily be more games in the summer weekend days, its not like BMO will be busy this year with league dates.

Actually, I think a few of the weekends during the summer at BMO will be taken by the Nationals (lacrosse). I think they play on saturdays too :banghead:

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-07-2009, 07:55 PM
Actually, I think a few of the weekends during the summer at BMO will be taken by the Nationals (lacrosse). I think they play on saturdays too :banghead:


thought they were Sundays??

mastermixer
05-07-2009, 08:05 PM
I just checked the lacrosse schedule. They have two saturday games in June and I think one more in August.

Canary Canuck
05-07-2009, 08:40 PM
It'll be interesting to see the response if/when we win the canadian championship. We'll have four more midweek home games to sell, one of which will be a less than glamorous preliminary round game.

Hustle
05-07-2009, 09:05 PM
there was just no "attractiveness" to this game for the "casual" fan (which, like it or not, makes up a good chunk of the crowd on saturdays versus MLS teams).


...yes...and that is why Jack's post is right on. Everyone knows there are alot of Casual Fans on the weekends who come for the atmosphere and more will become hardcore fans who show up on rainy Wednesday's only if the product is better. .

There is no reason why we shouldn't be "THE" football team in North America. Improve the venue (Grass AND Roof), and the product on the pitch (DP). If MLSE does'nt continue to work diligently on a better product at a quicker pace, they will fuck up a great thing.

bhoybobby
05-07-2009, 10:13 PM
I think part of the problem is that when I cant show up, I sell my south end tickets, because I can use the money, and there are people willing to buy them.

People on the west side who've paid into the thousands for their season tickets aren't going to sell their ticket on as easily, and some have enough money not to care about filling their empty seat.

Also, if the south end wasnt stuffed over capacity with people sneaking in, the east stands might look less spartan.

I was quite impressed with the atmosphere,given the weather. I like night time games, I;m still amazed the folk won't invest in a dollar store poncho & dress for the weather.

How did the announcer get the wrong attendence #, even the papers got it wrong, come on mlse get these little things right please.

shaggingscot
05-07-2009, 10:23 PM
I've always found the atmosphere better for the night matches, particularly when it's raining. I think it might have to do with the fact that it weeds out the casual fans from the football supporters.

Wednesday was fantastic, it was one of the few times I've been able to clearly make out what 112 were signing from 116 and been able to time myself to join in.

james
05-07-2009, 10:27 PM
JUST SO YOU GUYS ALL KNOW THE ACTUAL number of ticket sales was 19,800.....16,000 WAS A MISTAKE.

TO be honest maybe there was only actually 15,000-16,000 fans but it wasnt much less then most games. Every game we have played so far this season they have said the attendence is 20,000 but yet there is always at least 3,000-4,000 seats empty. The East stand always looks half empty on TV. Last night wasnt much different, just the rain made alot of people leave even earlyer then usual.

Super
05-07-2009, 10:32 PM
I'm shocked at just how many people stay home while having paid for the tickets. I wonder if they'll give up their tickets next season. I sure hope so. Plenty of people in line who would be happy to use the seats.

james
05-07-2009, 10:39 PM
how many of our pre 8pm games had attendances of 16,000 and change crowds? NONE!! it was the time..


really i think you put to much blame on the 8pm start just because its not convinuent for you. Believe me just because you and some other fans have to get the 9:47 train back home to brantford isnt the reason why there was thousands of empty seats tonight. The same number of fans would of shown up at 7:30 i bet you. Just for an example we can compare other sport times.

1) Leaf games durring the week usually start at 7:30 and end at 10pm.

2) Raptor games often start at 7pm or 7:30 and go to 9:30 or 10pm depending on what time and day of the week.

3) Blue Jay game often start at 7 and dont end close till 10. Extra innings and game goes on forever.

4) Argo games on friday nights often start at 7:30 i believe and go till like 10 or so.

5) TFC game that starts at 8pm ends at 10pm

SO basicly every game in the city ends at 10pm, soccer just happens to be shorter then other sports because they dont have stoppage and commercials. So if just because some people last bus home leaves at 11 or some shit doesnt explain all the empty seats otherwise you would have loads of empty seats at every sporting event in this city because people outside the GTA gotta leave early.

A better explanation for empty seats is bad weather, loads of scalpers and many fans just see the match as some crappy friendly match vs a USL club and dont recogonize the inportantness of the match.

Oh and again the amount of tickets soild for Vancouver match last night was actually 19,800, 16,000 announced was a mistake, just several thousand didnt show up. But do you remember what the attendence was last year when we played home to Vancouver on Canada day on a hot sunny afternoon???? it was only 18,100, so not a sell out is nothing new vs Vancouver, doesnt matter time of day, people just dont want to watch a USL club.

bhoybobby
05-08-2009, 07:39 AM
really i think you put to much blame on the 8pm start just because its not convinuent for you. Believe me just because you and some other fans have to get the 9:47 train back home to brantford isnt the reason why there was thousands of empty seats tonight. The same number of fans would of shown up at 7:30 i bet you. Just for an example we can compare other sport times.

1) Leaf games durring the week usually start at 7:30 and end at 10pm.

2) Raptor games often start at 7pm or 7:30 and go to 9:30 or 10pm depending on what time and day of the week.

3) Blue Jay game often start at 7 and dont end close till 10. Extra innings and game goes on forever.

4) Argo games on friday nights often start at 7:30 i believe and go till like 10 or so.

5) TFC game that starts at 8pm ends at 10pm

SO basicly every game in the city ends at 10pm, soccer just happens to be shorter then other sports because they dont have stoppage and commercials. So if just because some people last bus home leaves at 11 or some shit doesnt explain all the empty seats otherwise you would have loads of empty seats at every sporting event in this city because people outside the GTA gotta leave early.

A better explanation for empty seats is bad weather, loads of scalpers and many fans just see the match as some crappy friendly match vs a USL club and dont recogonize the inportantness of the match.

Oh and again the amount of tickets soild for Vancouver match last night was actually 19,800, 16,000 announced was a mistake, just several thousand didnt show up. But do you remember what the attendence was last year when we played home to Vancouver on Canada on a hot sunny afternoon???? it was only 18,100, so not a sell out is nothing new vs Vancouver, doesnt matter time of day, people just dont want to watch a USL club.


Some people , the vast majority do. Most MLS teams aren't much better than the top USL teams.

BuSaPuNk
05-08-2009, 08:00 AM
Some people , the vast majority do. Most MLS teams aren't much better than the top USL teams.

We will have to see when we play Montreal. I have a feeling that the attendance will be alot closer to usual. I think everyone has come up with vaild points about why the attendance wasn't as high as usual. How about we were only playing Vancouver? Not because there USL but there Vancouver. Now there is a rivalry against Montreal so I expect attendace to be higher.....just because it has been ingrained in our minds that we hate Montreal. i.e. Canadiens. I don't think the start time of the match had much to do with attendance besides the point of who we were playing. :scarf:

ilikemusic
05-08-2009, 11:50 AM
how many of our pre 8pm games had attendances of 16,000 and change crowds? NONE!! it was the time..

It had nothing to do with the 8pm start.

Actually, it had less than nothing to do with the 8pm start.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-08-2009, 11:59 AM
It had nothing to do with the 8pm start.

Actually, it had less than nothing to do with the 8pm start.


i say it did....we never had that many empty seats for league matches/friendlies pre 8pm KO ...YES it had to do with the time..

Maple Leaf Red
05-08-2009, 12:18 PM
its not a sad excuse its reality for travellers...8pm is just down right stupid for sporting events to ko in TO. The Leafs got away from the nonsence years ago and MLSE should have learned from that.

there could easily be more games in the summer weekend days, its not like BMO will be busy this year with league dates.

I take the GO. It is a sad excuse. Lots of other events in two end at the same time. The Leafs' games end around 10 midweek.

That's a great idea about having them on the weekend in the summer. BMO might not have events but unfortunately TFC does.

nfitz
05-08-2009, 12:23 PM
Are we still going? The attendance on Wednesday was 19,811. This is what Paul said on Wednesday, this is what is on the website (http://web.mlsnet.com/schedule/scoreboard/season.jsp?team=t280), and this is what was printed in the Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/630424) delivered to my door at 6 AM Thursday morning. That's almost 1,000 more than for the same game against the Whitecaps last season.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-08-2009, 12:40 PM
I take the GO. It is a sad excuse. Lots of other events in two end at the same time. The Leafs' games end around 10 midweek.

That's a great idea about having them on the weekend in the summer. BMO might not have events but unfortunately TFC does.


its nothing to do when it ends rather of when it starts...a half hr earlier start makes all the difference.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-08-2009, 12:42 PM
Are we still going? The attendance on Wednesday was 19,811. This is what Paul said on Wednesday, this is what is on the website (http://web.mlsnet.com/schedule/scoreboard/season.jsp?team=t280), and this is what was printed in the Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/630424) delivered to my door at 6 AM Thursday morning. That's almost 1,000 more than for the same game against the Whitecaps last season.

sold yes,,but there were more empty seats then Vancouver last time out,
lets face it there was 15-16,000 seats actually filled on Wednesday, a major disappointment.

Maple Leaf Red
05-08-2009, 03:26 PM
its nothing to do when it ends rather of when it starts...a half hr earlier start makes all the difference.

So people have to decide between waiting 25 more minutes or arriving at the station at kickoff. If that keeps them away then the weather would have done it for them or some other arbitrary and insignificant reason.

The Eastbound GO arrives at Exhibition at Xpm and the Westbound GO arrives at X50PM.

And the reason's for the tv purposes for having a 8pm start have already been discussed.

It's funny because if it was 7 or 730 people would be complaining that it's too soon after work!

I_AM_CANADIAN
05-08-2009, 03:28 PM
I don't think it had anything to do with the 8 PM start.
I agree. It's harder for people to make it to weeknight games, for one, and it also wasn't a league match. I'm betting we'll see better attendance for the Montreal game, though.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-08-2009, 03:30 PM
So people have to decide between waiting 25 more minutes or arriving at the station at kickoff. If that keeps them away then the weather would have done it for them or some other arbitrary and insignificant reason.

The Eastbound GO arrives at Exhibition at Xpm and the Westbound GO arrives at X50PM.

And the reason's for the tv purposes for having a 8pm start have already been discussed.

It's funny because if it was 7 or 730 people would be complaining that it's too soon after work!


the only future for this tournament is to play Saturday/ Sunday afternoons open and play then...book next years dates now so MLS can work around TFC two home games.

arbogast
05-08-2009, 03:30 PM
i say it did....we never had that many empty seats for league matches/friendlies pre 8pm KO ...YES it had to do with the time..

Sorry dude, there were entire empty sections of unsold seats in the second deck for the Vancouver game last year (and that was an afternoon kick off).

In fact, the attendance seemed way better for Van City this year.

AL-MO
05-08-2009, 03:32 PM
So people have to decide between waiting 25 more minutes or arriving at the station at kickoff. If that keeps them away then the weather would have done it for them or some other arbitrary and insignificant reason.

The Eastbound GO arrives at Exhibition at Xpm and the Westbound GO arrives at X50PM.

And the reason's for the tv purposes for having a 8pm start have already been discussed.

It's funny because if it was 7 or 730 people would be complaining that it's too soon after work!

Because it would be! ;)

james
05-08-2009, 04:44 PM
i say it did....we never had that many empty seats for league matches/friendlies pre 8pm KO ...YES it had to do with the time..

we sold fewer tickets last year in the afternoon match.

see for many more people within the city or just outside of the city like Pickerring, Missisauga, oakville a 7pm start is a nightmere to get to but may suit you better. But i think the number of people travelling within the city or just out side of the city out number the number of fans travelling from Brantford and further distances. You cant make everyone happy, people complain no matter what time. But they go with whats best for the majority as well as best for TV deals.

But again you seem to use the 8pm start as the sole reason for thousands of empty seats and i just dont believe thats the case.

nfitz
05-08-2009, 05:22 PM
Can a mod change the title of this thread from 16,011?!?! to 19,811! ?

Jack
05-08-2009, 06:01 PM
Can a mod change the title of this thread from 16,011?!?! to 19,811! ?
Why?

That's not what the PA guy announced.

wzhxvy
05-08-2009, 06:14 PM
If anyone here believes there were 19K in the stadium, I am a Nigerian prince, please PM me.

Rudi
05-08-2009, 06:21 PM
its nothing to do when it ends rather of when it starts...a half hr earlier start makes all the difference.
How does this sentence even remotely make sense?

james
05-08-2009, 06:28 PM
If anyone here believes there were 19K in the stadium, I am a Nigerian prince, please PM me.

everyone knows there was less then 19,000 fans actually there. But there was 19,800 tickets sold. There probably really only was 15,000-16,000 fans there, but thats like so many games this year, the number of tickets sold never match how many people are actually there. Id say every game this year we have had maybe 17,000-18,000 fans a game while they announce over 20,000 on the scoreboard.

james
05-08-2009, 06:29 PM
How does this sentence even remotely make sense?

i think what he means is that the whole reason we only had maybe 15-16,000 fans at the game was because it started at 8pm. Had it started earlyer at 7:30 the stadium would be full. Tho i know thats not true, i dont know why he seems to think the time the game start was the only reason there was lots of empty seats. Maybe explains some, but not 5,000 empty seats.

wzhxvy
05-08-2009, 06:33 PM
everyone knows there was less then 19,000 fans actually there. But there was 19,800 tickets sold. There probably really only was 15,000-16,000 fans there, but thats like so many games this year, the number of tickets sold never match how many people are actually there. Id say every game this year we have had maybe 17,000-18,000 fans a game while they announce over 20,000 on the scoreboard.

I agree with you. I am just not impressed with the propaganda from MLSE on this for their own selfish reasons aka publicaly funded stadium expansion. In terms of priorities for me personally, I would say grass, DP, commitment to winning (not in any particular order) and then a very distant 4th is expansion. I could care less if there are 20K or 25K in the stadium as long as the people who are their are passionate supporters of the team. I also can care less if there is 1 or 10K people on the waiting list.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-08-2009, 06:52 PM
How does this sentence even remotely make sense?

7:30 game ends appox 9:25 giving all fans a chance to get home , and avoid any over night stays in a timmies till the greyhound pulls out in the early morning. even the 4pm games i dont get home till 12:20 in the morning so the 1/2 hr start DOES make sense...and how many parent would love to get their kids home earlier..im sure a lot

tickets sold does not= fans in the seats..they can say 19,000 were sold but no more
the 15-16,000 showed up.....Vacouver is a poor draw...MLS made a mistake letting them into the league./

MrHawk
05-08-2009, 07:01 PM
Alright and how many people take the GO from Toronto to Hamilton, then wait for Brantford?

Rudi
05-08-2009, 07:26 PM
Alright and how many people take the GO from Toronto to Hamilton, then wait for Brantford?
Apparently 5,000 or so.

Seriously, every other sport in Toronto ends at around the same time on a weeknight, which is what his point was all about. And yet he somehow was still wrong.

As for MLS having made a mistake for letting Vancouver in because of a 'poor' attendance on a rainy weeknight against a USL side in the middle of nine home games in seven weeks... All I can say is: :rolleyes:

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-08-2009, 07:29 PM
Alright and how many people take the GO from Toronto to Hamilton, then wait for Brantford?

that i know of 5...but that number would more then likely increase if there were no more 8pm KO...screw the western canadian public with these start times go back to 7, 7:30 TFC fans first

MrHawk
05-08-2009, 08:42 PM
So you know of 5 people that take the GO, but that number would increase if it wasn't for 1 8pm start time?

Dunkers
05-08-2009, 09:34 PM
its not a sad excuse its reality for travellers...8pm is just down right stupid for sporting events to ko in TO. The Leafs got away from the nonsence years ago and MLSE should have learned from that.

there could easily be more games in the summer weekend days, its not like BMO will be busy this year with league dates.


Has it crossed your mind, that this game was aired at 5pm local time in Vancouver.

The best way to kill this tournement would be to air a game a 4pm local time in Van City...everyone is still at work.

Montreal - Toronto, mid week game, go ahead and have a 7pm kick off, but not for Van, nobody would have televised the game, and nobody would have watched, outside of Ontario. Ideally the game should have been on a weekend, but that cant happen given the MLS schedule, so you have to appease ALL parties, given the constraints

nfitz
05-08-2009, 10:35 PM
Has it crossed your mind, that this game was aired at 5pm local time in Vancouver.

The best way to kill this tournement would be to air a game a 4pm local time in Van City...everyone is still at work.Given that the next game (Toronto versus Montreal) isn't going to be aired in either Toronto or Montreal - does that mean that the tournament has been killed?

Dunkers
05-08-2009, 10:42 PM
Given that the next game (Toronto versus Montreal) isn't going to be aired in either Toronto or Montreal - does that mean that the tournament has been killed?

It is a serious set back, it would appear that sportsnet has a commitiment to the Jays game, which sucks, and the Score does not have thier own commentators, so they wont pick it up, and i am willing to wager the CBC is covering hockey, and forget TSN, worst sports channel ever, they will still be forcing hockey down our throats in mid august

In all reality, the only reason sportnet picked up the Van game, was because the Jays were playing in Anehiem, and therefor they had the slot open

Blizzard
05-08-2009, 10:58 PM
It is a serious set back, it would appear that sportsnet has a commitiment to the Jays game, which sucks, and the Score does not have thier own commentators, so they wont pick it up, and i am willing to wager the CBC is covering hockey, and forget TSN, worst sports channel ever, they will still be forcing hockey down our throats in mid august

In all reality, the only reason sportnet picked up the Van game, was because the Jays were playing in Anehiem, and therefor they had the slot open

The good news is that TFC-TV will show the game live. Obvioiusly it won't be a full our broadcast level production but at least the match is viewable!

B

Dunkers
05-08-2009, 10:59 PM
^ Thanks Paul B!

shawn6597
05-08-2009, 11:18 PM
i really cant buy the "out of town argument"
i'd give my left nut to commute to BMO from brantford.
for the time being, i come up from windsor.

Erkan16
05-08-2009, 11:54 PM
It is a serious set back, it would appear that sportsnet has a commitiment to the Jays game, which sucks, and the Score does not have thier own commentators, so they wont pick it up, and i am willing to wager the CBC is covering hockey, and forget TSN, worst sports channel ever, they will still be forcing hockey down our throats in mid august

In all reality, the only reason sportnet picked up the Van game, was because the Jays were playing in Anehiem, and therefor they had the slot open

the Blue Jays are the 2nd or 3rd best team in the MLB right now... you cant duck them at their best.

dont get me started on TSN... WORST CHANNEL EVERRRRRRRR.

menefreghista
05-09-2009, 08:35 AM
that i know of 5...but that number would more then likely increase if there were no more 8pm KO...screw the western canadian public with these start times go back to 7, 7:30 TFC fans first

So TFC should start games at 7:30 pm because its more convenient for the 5 people coming in from Brantford, as opposed to an 8pm start, which is more convenient for the other 20,000 people in the stadium?

Makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

Jack
05-09-2009, 08:56 AM
Guys...don't take mighty's whining too seriously.

If he had his way, BMO Field would be in Brantford :D

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-09-2009, 09:03 AM
Has it crossed your mind, that this game was aired at 5pm local time in Vancouver.

The best way to kill this tournement would be to air a game a 4pm local time in Van City...everyone is still at work.

Montreal - Toronto, mid week game, go ahead and have a 7pm kick off, but not for Van, nobody would have televised the game, and nobody would have watched, outside of Ontario. Ideally the game should have been on a weekend, but that cant happen given the MLS schedule, so you have to appease ALL parties, given the constraints


they could have tape delayed it for the folks out west and still keep the game on here at a resonable time, they go go ahead and schedule next years tournament now and book the weekends before the MLS schedule comes out and MLS would have to work around that.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-09-2009, 09:05 AM
Guys...don't take mighty's whining too seriously.

If he had his way, BMO Field would be in Brantford :D


If Only:D but i would settle for a proper bus line not leaving TO before 11PM-11:30pm.

dupont
05-09-2009, 10:41 AM
Guys...don't take mighty's whining too seriously.

If he had his way, BMO Field would be in Brantford :D

haha!

I was just thinking.. I seriously don't even know where Brantford is!

GBV
05-09-2009, 11:05 AM
everyone knows there was less then 19,000 fans actually there. But there was 19,800 tickets sold. There probably really only was 15,000-16,000 fans there, but thats like so many games this year, the number of tickets sold never match how many people are actually there. Id say every game this year we have had maybe 17,000-18,000 fans a game while they announce over 20,000 on the scoreboard.

see no. 2:

at·ten·dance (-tndns)
n.
1. The act of attending.
2. The persons or number of persons that are present.
3. The frequency with which a person is present.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-09-2009, 02:24 PM
haha!

I was just thinking.. I seriously don't even know where Brantford is!


ITS TH4E CITY WITH THE INTERCONTY BASEBALL CHAMPIONS

AND THE sUTHERLAND cUP JR B HOCKEY CHAMPIONS

..brantford has a cup winning hockey team...toronto?? haha:D

werewolf
05-14-2009, 10:46 AM
a paltry 19,872 last night...that is despicable, all those empty seats! Screw you 8pm!




:rolleyes:

dupont
05-14-2009, 01:02 PM
Yeah the attendance was much better this week. Montreal is just a much bigger draw than Vancouver I guess. It's as simple as that.

Blazer
05-14-2009, 01:28 PM
So, 4000 less than a sellout, is that tickets sold or people in the stadium?


What can contribute to something like that...

Weather?
Lack of advertisement for the NCC?
Week-day night game with a rare 8pm start?

1. Honeymoon is over – it’s all downhill from here unless winning becomes commonplace.

2. Wednesday night games are something left to be desired too. Some may not want the hangover Thursday morning at work especially with another game this weekend where Sunday hangovers are more comfortable from the sofa at home.

3. The team ain’t much to brag about right now and outside of the Leafs in this city, most sports fans are bandwagon hoppers first before they are true and loyal supporters.

These are just some of the reasons.

Blazer
05-14-2009, 01:31 PM
a paltry 19,872 last night...that is despicable, all those empty seats! Screw you 8pm!

:rolleyes:


Sold is much different from actual attendants though. Empty seats are like pimples on your face. Nobody wants to see them and everybody wishes they didn’t exist.

billyfly
05-14-2009, 01:35 PM
I don't mind the really HOT female band wagoners. Seemed to be a least a few in 112 yesterday.

Blazer
05-14-2009, 02:11 PM
^ Me likes hot female wagoners too. Especially the ones who bare skin and swear lots.

daner90
05-14-2009, 02:18 PM
What do you mean the team ain't much to brag about right now? Sitting 1 point out of first in the East, undefeated in 6 and in control of the canadian championship...when exactly would you brag about them than?

SoccMan
05-14-2009, 02:34 PM
I don't see what the big deal with attendance is. Last night's crowd was no different then what has been the norm since year 1. I have seen empty seats at every game I have ever been to, and I've been to many being a season ticket holder. There will always be empty seats for various reasons even when a sellout is anounced. Go to any Leaf or Raptors game and you will see empty seats. Is the honeymoon over I don't know, I guess we will all find out once season ticket renewal time comes around.

Blazer
05-14-2009, 04:56 PM
What do you mean the team ain't much to brag about right now? Sitting 1 point out of first in the East, undefeated in 6 and in control of the canadian championship...when exactly would you brag about them than?

When they deserve to win and when they lose despite playing well. I have an expectation of this team – a realistic one in my opinion – and that expectation has not yet been met. I’m sure the players and coaching staff would tell you the same if you were to ask them if they are totally satisfied with the way they have played at times this season. Sorry if that floors you but it is what it is. Sure we’re nearly atop the table in the east and we should be thankful of that, but my confidence is suspect at best, right now anyway. The season is long and I’m certain things will improve as this group continues to grow together. I just hope that their growth and development is not at the same rate as the rest of the league.

Blazer
05-14-2009, 05:03 PM
I don't see what the big deal with attendance is. Last night's crowd was no different then what has been the norm since year 1. I have seen empty seats at every game I have ever been to, and I've been to many being a season ticket holder. There will always be empty seats for various reasons even when a sellout is anounced. Go to any Leaf or Raptors game and you will see empty seats. Is the honeymoon over I don't know, I guess we will all find out once season ticket renewal time comes around.

Season ticket renewal doesn’t mean people are in their seats though don’t forget. There wasn’t a seat to be found more often than not in season one and gradually people tailed off in seasons 2 and now 3. Last night wasn’t the most vacant I’ve seen it but it was disappointing. You will always have your core group of diehards (and you hope that’s a significant amount of people that doesn’t leave the place looking barren) but the fringe fans will come and go as they please, which agreed, you will see anywhere in any city, with any sport. Last night wasn’t awful by any means, but it does beg the question – what’s season 4 through 10 going to look like? Assuming MLS and soccer in this city can sustain itself.

bhoybobby
05-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Season ticket renewal doesn’t mean people are in their seats though don’t forget. There wasn’t a seat to be found more often than not in season one and gradually people tailed off in seasons 2 and now 3. Last night wasn’t the most vacant I’ve seen it but it was disappointing. You will always have your core group of diehards (and you hope that’s a significant amount of people that doesn’t leave the place looking barren) but the fringe fans will come and go as they please, which agreed, you will see anywhere in any city, with any sport. Last night wasn’t awful by any means, but it does beg the question – what’s season 4 through 10 going to look like? Assuming MLS and soccer in this city can sustain itself.


TFC fans can pride themselves in being ardent supporters of their team. Take the lis of Sydome & ACC & your attendance would look like shit,

I think the support given the weather & the time has been great.

I gotta a question to beg you, have you considered getting your eyes checked? 'cause last night was a nice atmosphere, good crowd, enjoyable game.

As for the future, we'll be fine in spite of Mo slowing the bus down

daner90
05-14-2009, 06:20 PM
Blazer can I ask what your expectations of the team are then? I respect your opinion and really just want to know out of curiosity...thanks.

Bars92
05-14-2009, 08:00 PM
Fans will come and go, but a lot of us can't afford tickets yet. I am a broke-ass student, but will buy seasons some day. last year I went to three games by buying random tix on ebay and this year I can't even afford that. I think there will be another wave of fans, thanks to the inital sucess of the club.:scarf:

InTheCrowd
05-14-2009, 08:15 PM
When they deserve to win and when they lose despite playing well. I have an expectation of this team – a realistic one in my opinion – and that expectation has not yet been met. I’m sure the players and coaching staff would tell you the same if you were to ask them if they are totally satisfied with the way they have played at times this season. Sorry if that floors you but it is what it is. Sure we’re nearly atop the table in the east and we should be thankful of that, but my confidence is suspect at best, right now anyway. The season is long and I’m certain things will improve as this group continues to grow together. I just hope that their growth and development is not at the same rate as the rest of the league.

In footy it's all about the result. I am very happy with success, playing well and "deserving to win" are bonuses. By the way, every time you win you deserve to win (besides huge game changing wrong calls by the ref).

james
05-14-2009, 09:10 PM
it looked like 17-18,000 fans showed up last night, pretty much the same as every saturday afternoon match. And me being to every game this year id say the 2 loudest atmospheres we have had this year were vs Vancouver and Montreal!

james
05-14-2009, 09:12 PM
oh and last year attendence vs Vancouver was about 18,100 and we ddint sell out the Montreal game last year till the day of the match. I remember because i got a bunch of extra ticekts a week b4 the match.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-14-2009, 09:12 PM
a paltry 19,872 last night...that is despicable, all those empty seats! Screw you 8pm!




:rolleyes:


tickets sold....no more then 17,000 and change in BMO did you see the empty seats again...?? a little improvement not enough to justify a 8pm ko

james
05-14-2009, 09:23 PM
tickets sold....no more then 17,000 and change in BMO did you see the empty seats again...?? a little improvement not enough to justify a 8pm ko

did you also notice every single game this year we have never had more then 18,000 fans in the seats?

Jack
05-14-2009, 09:27 PM
Guys you have to remember that a lot of people also go to the beer garden and then there are the south end sneakers.

That probably accounts for 1000 right there.