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TFCREDNWHITE
05-02-2009, 02:21 PM
Then thereís Mo Johnston. For all intents and purposes, he was Carverís boss. And as the team was 2-2-2 on the year and struggling to score goals, he was under pressure from his bosses at MLSE to address the coaching situation. He may have had to fire Carver sooner or later, and Carver knew this.

On top of that, Johnston is not an easy man to work with. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact. A source with close ties to the squad informed me this week that most of the players do not respect Johnston. That opinion seems consistent in much of the Canadian coaching community. The same source confirmed that he had talked to a pair of high-profile Canadian coaches with ambitions to coach in MLS, both of whom would not even consider a job under Johnston. Whether Carver and Johnston clashed from time to time is unknown. But itís certainly within the realm of possibility.

http://soccer365.com/us_news/story_29409154138.php



WoW, I didn't know it was that bad with him and the players....

jloome
05-02-2009, 02:28 PM
That was stated before by Djekanovic when he left.

I've never figured out where Mo's personality issues lie. The whole celtic-rangers thing was pretty bitter, and I never really bought his side's story, although I could certainly believe he was in large part repeating what his agent told him to say. He's always seemed a bit defensive with the press. And there's certainly never been any show of humility for the team's woes up 'til now.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-02-2009, 02:40 PM
Cant say its the best of sources however im sure time will tell how much of this is true.
I cant say id be that surprised if Mo turned out to be unpleasant on the same hand (and i only say this from the most recent games under Carver) Carver was not providing what the team needed to succeed (as far as formation and strategy were concerned, once again kinda feel this was of recent, granted under the assumption that if Carver had been given the players he had requested we would be sitting pretty. Lotta assumptions here).

Beach_Red
05-02-2009, 07:46 PM
WoW, I didn't know it was that bad with him and the players....


The players don't respect him?

TFC is my team, I really like them, but there isn't a player on it good enough to talk about "respect." Again today we saw 10 guys walking around getting their asses handed to them in their home stadium (Frei was the only guy playing the whole game). Every one of them is lucky to have a job that doesn't include, "Do you want fries with that?"

I'll never understand the Rangers-Celtic thing (of course, I'd never heard of it until last year). The documentary that was linked to on these boards a couple months ago made it pretty clear Celtic didn't want to pay the $800,000 to the managment company that held the contract - instead of to the French team Johnston was with. Seems simple enough business to me. Should be no hard feelings, that's the way the world works. All this bullshit about walking away from a signed contract is silly - I have a signed contract with a US publisher for a novel I would love to walk away from but their lawyers have made it quite clear that since both sides signed it, I can't take it to anyone else. I can't imagine Scottish law is any different, so someone didn't sign the contract.

wzhxvy
05-02-2009, 08:08 PM
Outside of being a liar, a slime ball and an untrustworthy SOB...he is a fine guy.

ballerz
05-02-2009, 08:27 PM
TFC employs Nick Dasovic, Jason Bent, and various Canadian coaces. Which other Canadian coaches are there with ambitions in the MLS? Oh god...Dale Mitchell? Lenarduzzi? Ian Bridge? Paul James? Who gives a shit about what our Canadian garbage coaches think?

Oldtimer
05-02-2009, 08:36 PM
TFC employs Nick Dasovic, Jason Bent, and various Canadian coaces. Which other Canadian coaches are there with ambitions in the MLS? Oh god...Dale Mitchell? Lenarduzzi? Ian Bridge? Paul James? Who gives a shit about what our Canadian garbage coaches think?

Good point. There are some decent Canadians there. I suspect this article is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

ua-kozak_TFC
05-02-2009, 09:24 PM
The players don't respect him?

TFC is my team, I really like them, but there isn't a player on it good enough to talk about "respect." Again today we saw 10 guys walking around getting their asses handed to them in their home stadium (Frei was the only guy playing the whole game). Every one of them is lucky to have a job that doesn't include, "Do you want fries with that?"

I'll never understand the Rangers-Celtic thing (of course, I'd never heard of it until last year). The documentary that was linked to on these boards a couple months ago made it pretty clear Celtic didn't want to pay the $800,000 to the managment company that held the contract - instead of to the French team Johnston was with. Seems simple enough business to me. Should be no hard feelings, that's the way the world works. All this bullshit about walking away from a signed contract is silly - I have a signed contract with a US publisher for a novel I would love to walk away from but their lawyers have made it quite clear that since both sides signed it, I can't take it to anyone else. I can't imagine Scottish law is any different, so someone didn't sign the contract.
I think you are totally right... about the players... my counter point. Who hires them... Jhonston so yea... need i say more?

Now if that rumour is correct... why would you judge players opinion if that's the consensus among them? they been around him and know him more than we ever will...Now I may not know Mo but you don;t have to be a rocket scientist to figuere him out... And i wouldn;t be surprised if those rumours are true...

ps: about canadian coaches? what about the guy from montreal.... i wouldn;t mind having him. But to tell you the truth i am not sure if a new coach would change anything at the end of the day it;s the players on the pitch that matter... And with Mo's scratching his ass all the time frig how long has it been since he said he would get a defender... i think it was like 2 month before season strated... And don;t feed me that BS that it;s hard to find the right person... It;s a defender in the range of 200k we are looking for... and not the next prodigy...
The day Mo leaves it will be the best thing that happened to TFC since the expansion announcement...

Brooker
05-02-2009, 11:50 PM
I think you are totally right... about the players... my counter point. Who hires them... Jhonston so yea... need i say more?



as if he actually has the cream of the crop to choose from in the first place...

easy to criticize when you don't have to pick a different roster.

Waggy
05-03-2009, 12:35 AM
Hes not coach, hes gm. The players can think hes santa claus for all I care. If he brings them here, that should be seen as respect enough. This is making something of nothing. If it was a coach, that'd be a totally different scenario. My opinion is players SHOULD have somewhat of a healthy fear of the guy who decides whether they stay or go. Otherwise you get JP (Crap! I can't even make that joke anymore can I? Ok, Fergeson!)

TorontoBlades
05-03-2009, 08:56 AM
I know players that didn't respect him, and had mentioned as such....

Poz,
Braz,
Djecko....

...all lazy players, all not in the MLS...not even close

...they seemed to have an issue with accountability

ensco
05-03-2009, 09:19 AM
You think Ferguson or Wenger are easy to get along with?

There's a big difference between being hard to get along with, and being impossible to trust.

Beach_Red
05-03-2009, 09:24 AM
You think Ferguson or Wenger are easy to get along with?

There's a big difference between being hard to get along with, and being impossible to trust.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

ensco
05-03-2009, 09:28 AM
I don't understand what you mean by this.

Being hard to get along with isn't a problem, in fact may be a good thing for a team boss, as long as you are personally trustworthy.

Beach_Red
05-03-2009, 09:37 AM
Being hard to get along with isn't a problem, in fact may be a good thing for a team boss, as long as you are personally trustworthy.


I guess I'm wondering where that came from as the original article mentioned a lack of "respect" from the players but didn't go into any details about what they meant by that.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-03-2009, 09:57 AM
Then thereís Mo Johnston. For all intents and purposes, he was Carverís boss. And as the team was 2-2-2 on the year and struggling to score goals, he was under pressure from his bosses at MLSE to address the coaching situation. He may have had to fire Carver sooner or later, and Carver knew this.

On top of that, Johnston is not an easy man to work with. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact. A source with close ties to the squad informed me this week that most of the players do not respect Johnston. That opinion seems consistent in much of the Canadian coaching community. The same source confirmed that he had talked to a pair of high-profile Canadian coaches with ambitions to coach in MLS, both of whom would not even consider a job under Johnston. Whether Carver and Johnston clashed from time to time is unknown. But itís certainly within the realm of possibility.

http://soccer365.com/us_news/story_29409154138.php



WoW, I didn't know it was that bad with him and the players....


the players have to grow up and do their jobs and no worry about how Mo does his..!! the canadian coaching coummunity? who gives a rats ass what they think...canada cant produce a manager that could even handle a school boys team, so they shouldn't knock someone who has played a
a high level in the game. The players v Columbus showed they dont
really care if they win or not and MO should start shipping them out..
Mos hit list should include...DeRo,Gala,Brennan,Attakora-Gyan...Then
find additions

ensco
05-03-2009, 10:07 AM
I guess I'm wondering where that came from as the original article mentioned a lack of "respect" from the players but didn't go into any details about what they meant by that.

Ahhhh. I was also focusing on the statement that "he's not easy to work with" that preceded the comment about respect. I'm just parsing out what "lack of respect" could mean, and that it has potentially different meanings

Beach_Red
05-03-2009, 10:19 AM
Ahhhh. I was also focusing on the statement that "he's not easy to work with" that preceded the comment about respect. I'm just parsing out what "lack of respect" could mean, and that it has potentially different meanings

Okay. I've learned a lot since I started following TFC and it's been fasciniating. Some things never die...

I do think that fans and curent athletes have different points of view and statements like, "coaches wouldn't take a job with him," don't connect well to guys like Dichio who do take the jobs. That's a fans' statement, not something someone who's been around the business of sports would say seriously (not if they had a realistic shot at the job).

bhoybobby
05-03-2009, 10:33 AM
You think Ferguson or Wenger are easy to get along with?

There's a big difference between being hard to get along with, and being impossible to trust.


Yeah, but they're successful. All Mo's successful at it licking his paymaster's balls

ua-kozak_TFC
05-03-2009, 10:46 AM
I know players that didn't respect him, and had mentioned as such....

Poz,
Braz,
Djecko....

...all lazy players, all not in the MLS...not even close

...they seemed to have an issue with accountability
The others 2 sucked but Poz..... are you kidding me... that guy spit his heart out for the team... he;s definetly better than harmse... I think all TFC fans liked poz, i don;t think he got the playing time he deserved...

ua-kozak_TFC
05-03-2009, 10:49 AM
the players have to grow up and do their jobs and no worry about how Mo does his..!! the canadian coaching coummunity? who gives a rats ass what they think...canada cant produce a manager that could even handle a school boys team, so they shouldn't knock someone who has played a
a high level in the game. The players v Columbus showed they dont
really care if they win or not and MO should start shipping them out..
Mos hit list should include...DeRo,Gala,Brennan,Attakora-Gyan...Then
find additions
Note: Playing at a high level and being good at it... and Being a good Coach/manager are 2 different things... And rarely ever correlate...

devioustrevor
05-03-2009, 04:53 PM
TFC employs Nick Dasovic, Jason Bent, and various Canadian coaces. Which other Canadian coaches are there with ambitions in the MLS? Oh god...Dale Mitchell? Lenarduzzi? Ian Bridge? Paul James? Who gives a shit about what our Canadian garbage coaches think?


Good point. There are some decent Canadians there. I suspect this article is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

What if it was John Van 't Schip? Would it still be a mountain out of a molehill?

Bloor West FC
05-03-2009, 05:01 PM
I met Mo in Columbus and the entire staff was great although I did get a very bad vibe from Mo. But that's just me.

mighty_torontofc_2008
05-03-2009, 05:03 PM
Note: Playing at a high level and being good at it... and Being a good Coach/manager are 2 different things... And rarely ever correlate...


But Mo is just in is third season here and people have been on his back since day one...Im a Celtic supporter and i wasnt to happy when MO signed for another Glasgow team, that said he needs time to build a contender and 3 years is not enough, even 5 years is too much pressure,
lets take building this club right and not bringing in any old sod that can play, if we do that we will be like a certain TO hockey team and i know
none of us want that!! Mo never had the breaks Seattle had when joining the league or the same Vancouver and Portland will have..He had to start from square one...lets see where we are after 2 more seasons then judge MO...not now!!

TorontoBlades
05-03-2009, 09:18 PM
The others 2 sucked but Poz..... are you kidding me... that guy spit his heart out for the team... he;s definetly better than harmse... I think all TFC fans liked poz, i don;t think he got the playing time he deserved...


yes, but in year 1. You can't possibly say that Poz would even sniff the field for this year's edition of TFC. He was never to be a legitimate contributor of a successful club in the MLS and MoJo probably treated him as such.

Derko
05-04-2009, 03:51 AM
Must have been a quite day for tjis thread to get started, You know a lot of people don't like Sir Alex Ferguson either, but is quite successful. now the only comparison between Johnston and Ferguson are, you guessed it, They are both Scottish.

What a load of crap this thread is.

Mods close it!!

Oldtimer
05-04-2009, 07:46 AM
yes, but in year 1. You can't possibly say that Poz would even sniff the field for this year's edition of TFC. He was never to be a legitimate contributor of a successful club in the MLS and MoJo probably treated him as such.

I disagree. Poz is a utility player, but I would still take him back on this year's team.

ensco
05-04-2009, 10:29 AM
I disagree. Poz is a utility player, but I would still take him back on this year's team.

I would take him over Harmse in a flash. Scrabble must have pissed Mo off somehow. Hard to imagine given what a likeable sort Poz is.

TorontoBlades
05-04-2009, 10:44 AM
Well, it wouldn't be to hard to get him back as he's currently making spot appearences for Dundee....not Dundee United, and not in the SPL....and he's even found the net in the Scottish First Division...once!

Roogsy
05-04-2009, 10:50 AM
Yeah, but they're successful. All Mo's successful at it licking his paymaster's balls

I have little love for Mo...but this statement is ridiculous. Maybe as management he hasn't had much success yet, but you talk like Mo has never won any silverware which is tacitly untrue.

Add to that the fact that Mo has really only been in management for 3 years and I am not sure if anyone can speak at this point of his record of "success".

bhoybobby
05-04-2009, 05:24 PM
I have little love for Mo...but this statement is ridiculous. Maybe as management he hasn't had much success yet, but you talk like Mo has never won any silverware which is tacitly untrue.

Add to that the fact that Mo has really only been in management for 3 years and I am not sure if anyone can speak at this point of his record of "success".

Mo success was as a player, he was great player for clubs & country. He has no record of success mgmt, his performance at public coaching clinics is a sad reflection on mlse.

He didn't want Carver in the pressbox, nothing to do with mls. He is a well paid ball licker who's feathering his own nest.

I'm only interested in his performance as a coach, now G.M of TFC. He's a pantload pure & simple.

Big Bruva
05-05-2009, 05:40 PM
Then thereís Mo Johnston. For all intents and purposes, he was Carverís boss. And as the team was 2-2-2 on the year and struggling to score goals, he was under pressure from his bosses at MLSE to address the coaching situation. He may have had to fire Carver sooner or later, and Carver knew this.

On top of that, Johnston is not an easy man to work with. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact. A source with close ties to the squad informed me this week that most of the players do not respect Johnston. That opinion seems consistent in much of the Canadian coaching community. The same source confirmed that he had talked to a pair of high-profile Canadian coaches with ambitions to coach in MLS, both of whom would not even consider a job under Johnston. Whether Carver and Johnston clashed from time to time is unknown. But itís certainly within the realm of possibility.

http://soccer365.com/us_news/story_29409154138.php



WoW, I didn't know it was that bad with him and the players....



You might have a very good source there lol

ensco
05-05-2009, 06:49 PM
You might have a very good source there lol

Now that, right there, is what I call a very interesting post.

jloome
05-05-2009, 06:53 PM
Now that, right there, is what I call a very interesting post.

It is and it isn't . Given his recent benching, I don't know why RR would be any more reliable on this than Djekanovic or Poz. Mind you, based on what folk in New York have told me, I think they're all being quite straightforward.

ensco
05-05-2009, 07:00 PM
It is and it isn't . Given his recent benching, I don't know why RR would be any more reliable on this than Djekanovic or Poz. Mind you, based on what folk in New York have told me, I think they're all being quite straightforward.

BB knows a lot of the players. That makes it pretty interesting. Of course, it's still just one man's personal opinion.

If this is any guide, maybe we'll have to wait 120 years to get to the bottom of the Carver thing, jloome!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8033650.stm

wzhxvy
05-05-2009, 07:05 PM
When players do not like the GM its for one reason...they do not trust him. Because they really should not care about the GM unless they are negotiating a contract or being "sold" on joining the team. My guess and this is speculation is that Mo and honesty are not good friends, and he has likely made promises or made representations to players that have not materialized.

Beach_Red
05-05-2009, 08:06 PM
When players do not like the GM its for one reason...they do not trust him. Because they really should not care about the GM unless they are negotiating a contract or being "sold" on joining the team. My guess and this is speculation is that Mo and honesty are not good friends, and he has likely made promises or made representations to players that have not materialized.


You're right, the players shouldn't care about the GM at all. Players have agents for a reason. This is a business, no professional cares about "promises," they only care about contracts - and once they're signed they should be professionals.

Of course, this is MLS...

wzhxvy
05-05-2009, 08:12 PM
I would agree with you but I think also that promises and trust are a very important part of doing business. You can write up all the contracts you want, but if you do not have trust in the other party, no business deal can protect you. My experience is that if someone is not trust worthy and intends to "screw you" at some point, they will.

And if someone has a reputation as a untrustworthy, then others shy away from dealing with that person unless they absolutely have to, or they have an offer that they can refuse, or simply do not know about the person's reputation. When all things are equal, you want players to choose to come play here vs. somewhere else.

ExiledRed
05-05-2009, 08:42 PM
I remember when he traded Kevin Goldthwaite, the night after he came on the pitch in New York with a black eye and an angry scowl and played like Joey Barton to the point of getting a red.

Did Mo throw a boot at Goldthwaite prior to the match?

I always wanted to know what the fuck was up with that.

jloome
05-05-2009, 09:39 PM
BB knows a lot of the players. That makes it pretty interesting. Of course, it's still just one man's personal opinion.

If this is any guide, maybe we'll have to wait 120 years to get to the bottom of the Carver thing, jloome!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8033650.stm

So when Gaugin and Van Gogh lied to the Gendarmes and went into character, as it were, did that make them impressionists?

Beach_Red
05-05-2009, 10:27 PM
I would agree with you but I think also that promises and trust are a very important part of doing business. You can write up all the contracts you want, but if you do not have trust in the other party, no business deal can protect you. My experience is that if someone is not trust worthy and intends to "screw you" at some point, they will.




I think it's funny we're talking about "trustworthiness" in the land of sports agents.

I have an agent in my business, too. I'm a writer, and recently I moved from novels to writing for a TV show. Producers make all kinds of promises, and it's not personal, but all that matters is the contract, no one takes the promises seriously. Every writer expects to get screwed by the producer. Of course, the producers don't think of it as that, they think of it as getting another writer for a cheaper rate. Maybe it's different in sports, but I doubt it. If these players are looking for anything beyond what's in the contract, they really should get better agents.

A promise is worth as much as an "unwritten contract," and you know how much that is ;).

ensco
05-06-2009, 06:40 AM
So when Gaugin and Van Gogh lied to the Gendarmes and went into character, as it were, did that make them impressionists?

I'm doing further research into how exactly they went about their fabrications.