carver makes me appreciate mojo even more!

[bignickel]

with all the threads going on of why carver left, what caused it, that mls is shit, he is used to the epl, etc.
it is reassuring to see that mo who hails from the same neck of the woods as carver, is able to not only deal with the odditys of mls but find ways to use them to his advantage. in the first year mo did have confrontations with refs but never was vocal about the league, never acting bigger than the league as john seems to have done.
the mls is what we are part of and like it or not, this is the league we will continue to play in. it is 10 years old and not 100 like the epl, get used to it we will have growing pains!
mo 's pedigree as a player would make carver proud to say he handed him a water bottle, and yet no major issues about the mls from mo to date.
about the 5th thread i start on my faith in mo and once again am waiting for the neighsayers to pipe in.
i know mo hired carver, but complaining about a league that mo has been part of for the better part of a decade is weak.

in mo i trust!

[Cashcleaner]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mo put us last in the East in '07 with the less-than-stellar record of 6 wins, 17 losses, and 7 draws? I believe that year we also broke a league record for number of minutes played without scoring. Arguing the fact that it was our first year is fine, but expansion issues alone doesn't account for our pathetic 25 pts. that season.

[Dirk Diggler]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mo put us last in the East in '07 with the less-than-stellar record of 6 wins, 17 losses, and 7 draws? I believe that year we also broke a league record for number of minutes played without scoring. Arguing the fact that it was our first year is fine, but expansion issues alone doesn't account for our pathetic 25 pts. that season.

The topic isn't his pedigree as a coach. The point that he's trying to make is that if the league is good enough for Mo, why is Carver acting as if he's too good for the league? Mo has had to deal with the same quality of officiating for a longer period of time than Carver in all sorts of capacity ... player, coach and GM ... yet he rarely ever goes on rants bashing the referees, the league officials, league rules and regulation. He is affected by it just the same.

[s2cazz]

Carver is a stand up guy who did what he thought was right and best for the club... if you want to hate him for that go right ahead....

[Dunkers]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mo put us last in the East in '07 with the less-than-stellar record of 6 wins, 17 losses, and 7 draws? I believe that year we also broke a league record for number of minutes played without scoring. Arguing the fact that it was our first year is fine, but expansion issues alone doesn't account for our pathetic 25 pts. that season.


I dont normally defend MoJo, but is there any other team in the league that has a head coach and GM all in one role, not to mention it was an expansion year, with additional resitrictions on personal due to playing in Canada, and unlike seattle, there was 0 infrastucture in place before the team arrived in TO.

Seriouly look at what he had to work with, you want to blame MoJo for a bad onfeild prerformance, but look at what he did with personal, brought in Robinson, Brennan, Danny, Edu (=5 million bucks) which is now the core of your team, on top of that, he had to run practice/training (without the help of Paul Winsper)

Our on feild preformance sucked in year 1, no doubt! but you cant blame the one guy who had to do everything, why was he not given more support?

Hell, did we even have an assistant coach? Davo and Cummins both came in durring the Carver era.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Gansler! I think he was Assistant Coach under Mo. I had forgotten the name for a second there.

[Dunkers]

^ Gansler! I think he was Assistant Coach under Mo. I had forgotten the name for a second there.

Ok, well there was an assistant, i still think that is a ton of responsibility for one guy to undertake.

[Cashcleaner]

Fair enough. Though a person could turn that argument around and blame Mo for not bringing in someone to relieve him of some duties. Of course, he did eventually with Carver. And I guess you could further turn that around and say that Carver's negatives are Mo's fault as well because he signed him. These sort of arguments could go on and on and on...

Regardless of all of that, we are left with Mo as Director of Soccer and I personally don't see him coming back down to the pitch.

Now that I'm thinking about it, what happens to Winsper now that Carver is gone?

[Dunkers]

MoJo said he is not going to leave in the presser on TFC TV

[Inswingingwingman]

He never left one team for the hated other team either eh?

The first Catholic that ever played for the Rangers is either a man aheaed of the times, or one of the most reviled people in all of catholic Scotland.

The fact he switched jerseys makes people suspicious that he lacks loyalty.

I don't personally give a flyin' f. The wife's a catho and I chase her around in my orange tshirt every glorious 12th just as a joke.

Perspective...

[bhoybobby]

He never left one team for the hated other team either eh?

The first Catholic that ever played for the Rangers is either a man aheaed of the times, or one of the most reviled people in all of catholic Scotland.

The fact he switched jerseys makes people suspicious that he lacks loyalty.

I don't personally give a flyin' f. The wife's a catho and I chase her around in my orange tshirt every glorious 12th just as a joke.

Perspective...

You're talking nonsense, he wasn't the 1st Catholic to play for Rangers. Do your research.

Besides religion has nothing to do with TFC, MLS, or Mo being an idiot.

[ensco]

You're talking nonsense, he wasn't the 1st Catholic to play for Rangers. Do your research.

Besides religion has nothing to do with TFC, MLS, or Mo being an idiot.

Seems almost certain that you, at some point, have called Mo a god-damned idiot

:cool:

[bhoybobby]

Seems almost certain that you, at some point, have called Mo a god-damned idiot

:cool:

I'd never sully any God's good name by mentioning the idiot's name in the same sentence.

My point was that the post made that Mo was the 1st Catholic to play for Rangers, was ill informed & wrong. Also, religion has no place in a football discussion on TFC:canada:

[ensco]

I'd never sully any God's good name by mentioning the idiot's name in the same sentence.



I can assure you I have, and I'm a Mo supporter!

Agree 1000% with your point, btw.

[Beach_Red]

Fair enough. Though a person could turn that argument around and blame Mo for not bringing in someone to relieve him of some duties.

Don't you think it was clear that MLSE went into soccer less than half-heartedly? Do you really think they would have spent a dime more to bring in more people?

[wilddog]

I approve this thread

[bhoybobby]

Don't you think it was clear that MLSE went into soccer less than half-heartedly? Do you really think they would have spent a dime more to bring in more people?

That's my biggest gripe. I know I rip Mo & Anselmi a lot. I can't fault them for taking the jobs.

I just doesn't make sense to me that with the resources that mlse has, that they wouldn't bring in credible people with a modicum of success in their respective mgmt field. Why you wouldn't bring in head coaches & mgmt folks with preferably MLS success on their resume is beyond me.

This could've been addressed in season two, is wasn't, could've been addressed this season it wasn't. Bring in talent witha track record, is that asking too much?

Having said that, I wish CC & Daso nothing but success for the balance of the season

[Beach_Red]

That's my biggest gripe. I know I rip Mo & Anselmi a lot. I can't fault them for taking the jobs.

I just doesn't make sense to me that with the resources that mlse has, that they wouldn't bring in credible people with a modicum of success in their respective mgmt field. Why you wouldn't bring in head coaches & mgmt folks with preferably MLS success on their resume is beyond me.

This could've been addressed in season two, is wasn't, could've been addressed this season it wasn't. Bring in talent witha track record, is that asking too much?

Having said that, I wish CC & Daso nothing but success for the balance of the season


The only reason they can possibly have is that soccer has failed in this market and the odds were it would again. Look how much people bitch about the way MLS is run, MLSE probably didn't rate its chances of success very highly either. For all we bitch about MLSE it achieves its goal of profitability every year, so it can see itself as well run. There are lots and lots of sports franchises that haven't won championships in a long, long time that are still well run.

And with Mo they got a guy who knows MLS and frankly, has done a very good job of dealing with the weird roster rules, manipulating the international slots, the allocation money (because MLSE isn't giving him an extra dime - and when they tell him they'll let him sign a DP and they don't actually give him the money, he doesn't quit or go public with his complaints).

They probably offered the job to a few people but when most guys saw what they were offering - and what they expected in return - they turned them down.

Besides, an expansion team in MLS is where winning reputations get made - people don't arrive with them.

Most of your complaints about Mo are mostly complaints about the league rules. It's not like Steve Nicol has any more depth on his team, they're so thin they got spanked 6-0 last week. You don't think he's an idiot, do you ;).

The year two addressing of the situation was bringing in Carver (and Winsper and the assistant coaches) which right now looks like a mistake by Mo, but who could have seen it coming? Every other coach in the league is able to put up with the league and the refs and all the other things Carver complains about. Maybe he didn;t know what he was getting into.

I doubt anyone else could have done much different a job the first few season given what MLSE was willing to put up and lots of guys probably would have pulled a Carver and left. Or gotten fleeced by managers who know the working of MLS a lot better.

I guess they could have really broken the bank and made an offer to someone like Steve Nicol (who's what, 0-3, 0-4 in championship games? Does that count as a winning enough record for you?) but until they were actually sure this league wouldn't fail and soccer in this city wouldn't fail, do you really see them spending that kind of money?

[bhoybobby]

The only reason they can possibly have is that soccer has failed in this market and the odds were it would again. Look how much people bitch about the way MLS is run, MLSE probably didn't rate its chances of success very highly either. For all we bitch about MLSE it achieves its goal of profitability every year, so it can see itself as well run. There are lots and lots of sports franchises that haven't won championships in a long, long time that are still well run.

And with Mo they got a guy who knows MLS and frankly, has done a very good job of dealing with the weird roster rules, manipulating the international slots, the allocation money (because MLSE isn't giving him an extra dime - and when they tell him they'll let him sign a DP and they don't actually give him the money, he doesn't quit or go public with his complaints).

They probably offered the job to a few people but when most guys saw what they were offering - and what they expected in return - they turned them down.

Besides, an expansion team in MLS is where winning reputations get made - people don't arrive with them.

Most of your complaints about Mo are mostly complaints about the league rules. It's not like Steve Nicol has any more depth on his team, they're so thin they got spanked 6-0 last week. You don't think he's an idiot, do you ;).

The year two addressing of the situation was bringing in Carver (and Winsper and the assistant coaches) which right now looks like a mistake by Mo, but who could have seen it coming? Every other coach in the league is able to put up with the league and the refs and all the other things Carver complains about. Maybe he didn;t know what he was getting into.

I doubt anyone else could have done much different a job the first few season given what MLSE was willing to put up and lots of guys probably would have pulled a Carver and left. Or gotten fleeced by managers who know the working of MLS a lot better.

I guess they could have really broken the bank and made an offer to someone like Steve Nicol (who's what, 0-3, 0-4 in championship games? Does that count as a winning enough record for you?) but until they were actually sure this league wouldn't fail and soccer in this city wouldn't fail, do you really see them spending that kind of money?

Your comparison between Mo & Nicol is absurd. My main point is that if you've anted up dosh for a store, get someone in who knows how run it. i.e: a capable coach (mgr) & a capable football administrator, Mo has no success in either field & Assman has no football background.

[FluSH]

Mojo got us $5million for Maurice Edu... we'll MLS took their cut... but we still got some dough.

That alone makes me appreciate Mojo...

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

The topic isn't his pedigree as a coach. The point that he's trying to make is that if the league is good enough for Mo, why is Carver acting as if he's too good for the league? Mo has had to deal with the same quality of officiating for a longer period of time than Carver in all sorts of capacity ... player, coach and GM ... yet he rarely ever goes on rants bashing the referees, the league officials, league rules and regulation. He is affected by it just the same.

Carver never complained about the quality of MLS...his problem was with MLS officials and the MLS headquarters, both of which head hunted Carver, and JC was suppose to just deal with it?? get real...Being told
he had to be on the field was the last straw, MLS had no right to request this from JC....if you boss gives you shite every time you do something
are you just going to take it..NO your not...you'd most likely find another place of employment,,,which with luck JC will find soon enough

[LucaGol]

Carver never complained about the quality of MLS...his problem was with MLS officials and the MLS headquarters, both of which head hunted Carver, and JC was suppose to just deal with it?? get real...Being told
he had to be on the field was the last straw, MLS had no right to request this from JC....if you boss gives you shite every time you do something
are you just going to take it..NO your not...you'd most likely find another place of employment,,,which with luck JC will find soon enough

I guess the fact that John Carver was constantly cursing in the ear of the 4th official, constantly exiting his technical area, and constantly calling out the referees numerous times even after fines, ... I guess all those things had nothing to do with it.

You're right, Garber had it out for JC right from the get go. :rolleyes:

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

I guess the fact that John Carver was constantly cursing in the ear of the 4th official, constantly exiting his technical area, and constantly calling out the referees numerous times even after fines, ... I guess all those things had nothing to do with it.

You're right, Garber had it out for JC right from the get go. :rolleyes:

John did what had to be done...you have to get in the face of the officials..when they make mistakes...cause MLS is not going to disipline
the refs..so go after em...Garber did have it out for John from the first game on this season..and you know it..:eek:

[Hitcho]

Bottom line is Mo understands the league with all its quirks and knows how to get the best out of it and play the system. Look how he nailed the draft this year, and look how he's stocked up allocation money and got us some amazing trades within the league.

Like him or not, he can play MLS like a fiddle and that's very important in a GM.

[Cashcleaner]

Don't you think it was clear that MLSE went into soccer less than half-heartedly? Do you really think they would have spent a dime more to bring in more people?

Oh for sure! I just mentioned it because like I said, you can turn almost any argument around like that.

[Beach_Red]

Your comparison between Mo & Nicol is absurd. My main point is that if you've anted up dosh for a store, get someone in who knows how run it. i.e: a capable coach (mgr) & a capable football administrator, Mo has no success in either field & Assman has no football background.

Why is the comparison absurd? They've won the same amount of MLS Cups as coaches (we won't count Mo's as team captain). And has TFC ever been blown out 6-0?

It's possible that for an expansion team in MLS Mo actually had the best credentials. To use your store metaphor, they didn't open a giant department store downtown, it's a small convenience store in the hinterlands. They barely anted up any "dosh" at all and all their decisions have been consistent.

But it will grow into a big department store downtown - as long as the league continues to grow and the decisions will be consistent with that.

Criticism is necessary and good, but not blind criticism. You know an awful lot more about the play on the field than I do and I respect your opinions on that, but your views on the way the team is run seem way off base for the stage it's at in the league it's in.

[ExiledRed]

Why is the comparison absurd? They've won the same amount of MLS Cups as coaches (we won't count Mo's as team captain). And has TFC ever been blown out 6-0?



No, TFC's worst defeat was a 4-0 loss.


To Steve Nicol's Revs.

[Mojo]

Feels good to be appreciated.

Wait a sec...

[Daveisonfire]

Fair enough. Though a person could turn that argument around and blame Mo for not bringing in someone to relieve him of some duties. Of course, he did eventually with Carver. And I guess you could further turn that around and say that Carver's negatives are Mo's fault as well because he signed him. These sort of arguments could go on and on and on...

Regardless of all of that, we are left with Mo as Director of Soccer and I personally don't see him coming back down to the pitch.

Now that I'm thinking about it, what happens to Winsper now that Carver is gone?

Mo hired Winsper before Carver was brought in, and according to him, Windy isn't going anywhere.

[VPjr]

It brings me close to tears to think that people actually believe in Mo "the snake" Johnston.

Getting stuck with Mo is the worst thing that MLS has done to us...not small payrolls or funny roster rules or mediocre refs.

We could have had Tom Soehn (apparently he was the frontrunner). However, MLS had Mo under contract but without a job after getting thrown out on his ass by NYRB so MLS suggested him to MLSE as a good option for the job. Sadly, they hired him.

If there is one positive thing I can say about Mo is that the man has some degree of good fortune, especially having Stefan Frei fall all the way down in the draft so Mo could pick him. Other than that, I'm not sure I can find a positive thing to say about the man.

It sickens me that MLSE head office (specifically Anselmi) believe in him the way they do. It shows how little they know collectively about this sport, although they are very good at making money (and that side of TFC front office, led by P.B., is a very impressive machine).

Big Nickel...the reason the MLS is good enough for Mo is because NO ONE else would have him. His pedigree as a player aside, the man has no future in the front office of any serious club anywhere in the world where footy is taken seriously. People in the soccer world know what Mo is all about and don't want any part of his act. I've spoken to more people I can count in the Ontario soccer community who just shake their head in disgust when his name comes up.

[GabrielHurl]

John did what had to be done...you have to get in the face of the officials..when they make mistakes...cause MLS is not going to disipline
the refs..so go after em...Garber did have it out for John from the first game on this season..and you know it..:eek:

no you don't

[VPjr]

^ +1

that's the attitude of amateurs.

professionals know that going after the officials like an out of control school boy wont help your team and, in the medium to long run, will hurt your team.

When JC tries to argue that he was a "choir boy" this season and only snapped after the FCD game, I would counter that the damage was already done last year.

There is more to being a manager than just knowing how to prepare the team for the weekend's fixture and JC did not have that "it" factor.

[The Kingpin]

^ +1

that's the attitude of amateurs.

professionals know that going after the officials like an out of control school boy wont help your team and, in the medium to long run, will hurt your team.

When JC tries to argue that he was a "choir boy" this season and only snapped after the FCD game, I would counter that the damage was already done last year.

There is more to being a manager than just knowing how to prepare the team for the weekend's fixture and JC did not have that "it" factor.

I call Bullshit. See Alex Ferguson when he thought a penalty should have been called in the FA Cup Semi-Final. Are you suggesting that Sir Alex Ferguson is an amateur? Your rhetoric is baseless as far as I can see.

[ensco]

No, TFC's worst defeat was a 4-0 loss.


To Steve Nicol's Revs.

We were the worst football team I have ever seen in that game.

It could have been 10-0.

[FluSH]

I call Bullshit. See Alex Ferguson when he thought a penalty should have been called in the FA Cup Semi-Final. Are you suggesting that Sir Alex Ferguson is an amateur? Your rhetoric is baseless as far as I can see.

I would say there are exceptions to every rule, and something like the FA Cup Semi-Final might be kind of a big deal... but that's just me...

It would be great to give everyone a formula and say

A + B (C*1/2 - F) = a good coach

but life's not like that...

[The Kingpin]

I would say there are exceptions to every rule, and something like the FA Cup Semi-Final might be kind of a big deal... but that's just me...

It would be great to give everyone a formula and say

A + B (C*1/2 - F) = a good coach

but life's not like that...

If it was a big deal, a really big seal as in some way you suggest, he would have fielded a starting team. Mr. Ferguson did not. And any attempt to blame the pitch (Wembley) suggests a sheer misunderstanding of PR. Attacks on officials is a regular offense across the globe. It's similar to certain individuals trolling "The Kingpin" posts only to provide mildly ignorant rebuttals with baseless statements. :D

[felipe]

are you guys part of a supporters group or part of a grumblers group?

[JDG]

I call Bullshit. See Alex Ferguson when he thought a penalty should have been called in the FA Cup Semi-Final. Are you suggesting that Sir Alex Ferguson is an amateur? Your rhetoric is baseless as far as I can see.


http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn201/HouseGuard/ferguson.gif



sorry but I couldn't resist :D

[The Kingpin]

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn201/HouseGuard/ferguson.gif



sorry but I couldn't resist :D

That's the vid - thank you. Enough said...

[VPjr]

I call Bullshit. See Alex Ferguson when he thought a penalty should have been called in the FA Cup Semi-Final. Are you suggesting that Sir Alex Ferguson is an amateur? Your rhetoric is baseless as far as I can see.

First, I wasn't calling JC an amateur...I was saying that the person who thinks you "need to get in the ref's face because they suck" was espousing an amateurish opinion. I see that crap in amateur soccer all the time and while I hate it, I chalk it up to amateurs behaving like amateurs.

The crux of my comments about JC's behaviour is most certainly not baseless. Its based on gathering the opinions of a wide range of people who coach soccer PROFESSIONALLY.

Furthermore, to compare JC to Sir Alex is ridiculous. Ferguson has actually won something (alot of things to be exact) so if he gets in a ref's grill, he has credibility. Who the F--K is John Carver exactly? Just because he's got the accent doesn't make him credible. You have to earn it.

Yes, coaches will occasionally go off on the refs. Some are more crazy about it than others. But JC hasn't proven a damn thing in his career so for him to come to MLS and go ape shit on every missed call and then go to the media and consistently call people out simply hurts his team. Can the refereeing be better...damn straight. Does every coach in the league go on an on about it like a broken record....Nope.

[The Kingpin]

First, I wasn't calling JC an amateur...I was saying that the person who thinks you "need to get in the ref's face because they suck" was espousing an amateurish opinion. I see that crap in amateur soccer all the time and while I hate it, I chalk it up to amateurs behaving like amateurs.

The crux of my comments about JC's behaviour is most certainly not baseless. Its based on gathering the opinions of a wide range of people who coach soccer PROFESSIONALLY.

Furthermore, to compare JC to Sir Alex is ridiculous. Ferguson has actually won something (alot of things to be exact) so if he gets in a ref's grill, he has credibility. Who the F--K is John Carver exactly? Just because he's got the accent doesn't make him credible. You have to earn it.

Yes, coaches will occasionally go off on the refs. Some are more crazy about it than others. But JC hasn't proven a damn thing in his career so for him to come to MLS and go ape shit on every missed call and then go to the media and consistently call people out simply hurts his team. Can the refereeing be better...damn straight. Does every coach in the league go on an on about it like a broken record....Nope.

Ambivalence does not equal success... In respect to your point re: your 'right' to contradict a bad call - you are suggesting that you have to win a championship of some sort to challenge an official - how ridiculous do you really think this sounds when spelt out to you? It baffles me... It really does. Whew.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn201/HouseGuard/ferguson.gif






sorry but I couldn't resist :D



see you in ROME!:D:drinking:

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

no you don't


the standard of officials in MLS wont improve if you just try and make peace with it.. JC was right to have a go at the officials...and deserves
marks for doing so...we will see how cummins deals with them..will he go off at them or be a lam going to be slaugther house and just put up with them....with luck no the latter..

[VPjr]

Ambivalence does not equal success... In respect to your point re: your 'right' to contradict a bad call - you are suggesting that you have to win a championship of some sort to challenge an official - how ridiculous do you really think this sounds when spelt out to you? It baffles me... It really does. Whew.

challenging an official is one thing.

JC was literally beligerant. he behaved like a moron. At times it was embarrassing. I would have loved to see the ref turn around and criticize his decision making because that would have been equally justified.

You can try to nitpick my posts and try to be a smart ass all you like but at the end of the day, the reality is that JC proved himself a selfish, out of control trainer who was thrust into a management position he was not equipped for. The truth is he deserved to be fired for the poor quality of his work. The fact he jumped before he was pushed means he saw the writing was on the wall. I just wish Mo went out the door with him...its the only thing that would have made me happier.

[VPjr]

the standard of officials in MLS wont improve if you just try and make peace with it.. JC was right to have a go at the officials...and deserves
marks for doing so...we will see how cummins deals with them..will he go off at them or be a lam going to be slaugther house and just put up with them....with luck no the latter..

how exactly does embarrasing a referee publicly and making wild claims about the quality of their work help the team? did he actually think he would curry favor with the refs by blasting them incessantly? I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

The man was out of his depth. Good riddance. Hopefully the new gaffer is better equipped to handle the role.

[bhoybobby]

the standard of officials in MLS wont improve if you just try and make peace with it.. JC was right to have a go at the officials...and deserves
marks for doing so...we will see how cummins deals with them..will he go off at them or be a lam going to be slaugther house and just put up with them....with luck no the latter..

Everyone in football know there is only one winner in the argument with refs, the ref.

I liked Carvers passion & his straight forwardness, however after listening to his long winded stuff on the fan, my 1st thought was he's a paranoid nut job who's more focused on running feuds with the refs than he i preparing his team.

Mo, should've nipped his reaction to the refs in the bud, or at least liased with the league about perceived wrongs.

I'm still no clearer on whether there's an official mls rule that says a coach can't take in the game form a box. JC's explaination that Mo rec'd a call saying JC had to go back downstairs is laughable. Mo, should have taken the caller to task asking what mls rule was being violated.

In any event, JC's gone, good luck CC. John take a pill & grow thicker skin, focus on what you can control as opposed to what you can't. Mo, stop being a yes man & grow a pair

[Yohan]

did Mo kill your firstborn child or something? wow

[bhoybobby]

did Mo kill your firstborn child or something? wow

He should've managed Carver's frustration & mls brass better. I'd still like to see tha t official mls rule that says no coaching from the club box.

[Beach_Red]

He should've managed Carver's frustration & mls brass better. I'd still like to see tha t official mls rule that says no coaching from the club box.

There's a lot of spin going on here, that's for sure. How many phone calls really took place between MLS and TFC?

MLS has been inconsistent in many things. It's having a tough time going from the single-entity to multiple owners and still runs things like a dictatorship (reminds me of that scene in Woody Allen's Bananas when the "Castro" character announces that the official language of their Carribean country will be Swedish).

It's going to be a proper league when it grows up, I'm sure of it, but right now it's baby steps, baby steps.....

[bignickel]

It brings me close to tears to think that people actually believe in Mo "the snake" Johnston.

Getting stuck with Mo is the worst thing that MLS has done to us...not small payrolls or funny roster rules or mediocre refs.

We could have had Tom Soehn (apparently he was the frontrunner). However, MLS had Mo under contract but without a job after getting thrown out on his ass by NYRB so MLS suggested him to MLSE as a good option for the job. Sadly, they hired him.

If there is one positive thing I can say about Mo is that the man has some degree of good fortune, especially having Stefan Frei fall all the way down in the draft so Mo could pick him. Other than that, I'm not sure I can find a positive thing to say about the man.

It sickens me that MLSE head office (specifically Anselmi) believe in him the way they do. It shows how little they know collectively about this sport, although they are very good at making money (and that side of TFC front office, led by P.B., is a very impressive machine).

Big Nickel...the reason the MLS is good enough for Mo is because NO ONE else would have him. His pedigree as a player aside, the man has no future in the front office of any serious club anywhere in the world where footy is taken seriously. People in the soccer world know what Mo is all about and don't want any part of his act. I've spoken to more people I can count in the Ontario soccer community who just shake their head in disgust when his name comes up.

speaking with people in the ontario soccer community about their opinions on mo johnston is a weak argument seeing as we have had very little exposure to his office life until he came to tfc.

in my limited exposure to his front office dealings i have seen him pull off enough good moves to far outweigh the bad ones.

i am not saying he has offers worldwide for his services but he would undoubtedly find work in scotland. old national team heroes always have a place in some team owners and fans hearts back home. (i.e. maradona coaching national team in argentina?!)

i hope he stays

i liked j.c. but the "i don't like the mls so i will quit on my team" move says alot about his character.

[Dunkers]

It brings me close to tears to think that people actually believe in Mo "the snake" Johnston.

Getting stuck with Mo is the worst thing that MLS has done to us...not small payrolls or funny roster rules or mediocre refs.

We could have had Tom Soehn (apparently he was the frontrunner). However, MLS had Mo under contract but without a job after getting thrown out on his ass by NYRB so MLS suggested him to MLSE as a good option for the job. Sadly, they hired him.

If there is one positive thing I can say about Mo is that the man has some degree of good fortune, especially having Stefan Frei fall all the way down in the draft so Mo could pick him. Other than that, I'm not sure I can find a positive thing to say about the man.

It sickens me that MLSE head office (specifically Anselmi) believe in him the way they do. It shows how little they know collectively about this sport, although they are very good at making money (and that side of TFC front office, led by P.B., is a very impressive machine).

Big Nickel...the reason the MLS is good enough for Mo is because NO ONE else would have him. His pedigree as a player aside, the man has no future in the front office of any serious club anywhere in the world where footy is taken seriously. People in the soccer world know what Mo is all about and don't want any part of his act. I've spoken to more people I can count in the Ontario soccer community who just shake their head in disgust when his name comes up.

If Frei was a gift, does that mean Robbo, Edu (traslated into 5 mil, some of which is allocation to help the team on the pitch), Barret (for nothing), DeRo (for James and allocation), Cronin were all gifts too?

[AL-MO]

I don't think much of Mo as a person, but all I care is that he puts a winning team on the field.

[rocker]

wow, we could have had Tom Soehn?!?!?!? ;)

there's a whole thread on Big Soccer about how DC fans want Soehn fired.
When Ives Galarcep blogged about Soehn's performance last year, there was almost universal dislike for his ability as a coach in the blog comments.

No thanks.

Some blog comments by various users last year on Tom Soehn:

Tom is consistently outcoached. He has to go. It's only a matter of time. A better coach could do more with this team.

Soehn should be feeling the heat.

Isn't this his 3rd year? DC have not won any trophies with him have they?

My opinion is that he should be let go. It might not exactly be fair, but it seems to me that the players aren't giving everything that they have for him.

I haven't decided yet if Tommy should be fired or not, generally I err on the side of continuity. That said a question I have had since they hired the guy is what level of tactical understanding does the guy have?

I'm not a knee jerk guy, but I just don't think Soehn is a very good coach.

if DC wants to win, Soehn should go.
if they are happy in the cellar, he should stay..He is constantly outcoached, team looks unmotivated, its hard for a team to play for to coach who was all about himself in his playing days.. it now shows.

[mlsintoronto]

although they are very good at making money (and that side of TFC front office, led by P.B., is a very impressive machine).



thank you....thankyouverymuch.... :cool:

[AL-MO]

wow, we could have had Tom Soehn?!?!?!? ;)



Did he not win the Supporters Shied with United in 2007?

Last time I checked that is one more than MO....

[werewolf]

^ he did inherit the roster that had won it the year before though.

[bhoybobby]

If Frei was a gift, does that mean Robbo, Edu (traslated into 5 mil, some of which is allocation to help the team on the pitch), Barret (for nothing), DeRo (for James and allocation), Cronin were all gifts too?

If we got Barrett for nothing we got ripped off big time. lol

As for selling Edu for 5 mill, that was, I have to admit, a good move. The fact it was the the "cloven hooved ones" that took him, made it even better.

[Dirk Diggler]

how exactly does embarrasing a referee publicly and making wild claims about the quality of their work help the team? did he actually think he would curry favor with the refs by blasting them incessantly? I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

The man was out of his depth. Good riddance. Hopefully the new gaffer is better equipped to handle the role.

Exactly. This is a ridiculous attitude that getting into the refs face is justified. Its not. Its not justified when John Carver did it and its not justified when Alex Ferguson does it. Granted, MLS refs are incompetent, but what does yelling at them achieve? They don't go around being incompetent on purpose. Grown men yelling at other grown men reflects very poorly on them.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Exactly. This is a ridiculous attitude that getting into the refs face is justified. Its not. Its not justified when John Carver did it and its not justified when Alex Ferguson does it. Granted, MLS refs are incompetent, but what does yelling at them achieve? They don't go around being incompetent on purpose. Grown men yelling at other grown men reflects very poorly on them.


what does ignoring the problem do? they just get worse...If TFC come down to one game for the playoffs and a Ref makes a call that costs us
that spot...will you still say its not Justified?

[bignickel]

Exactly. This is a ridiculous attitude that getting into the refs face is justified. Its not. Its not justified when John Carver did it and its not justified when Alex Ferguson does it. Granted, MLS refs are incompetent, but what does yelling at them achieve? They don't go around being incompetent on purpose. Grown men yelling at other grown men reflects very poorly on them.

the only thing worse would be if he left midgame and took the gameball with him shouting " and you guys can't play with it cuz it's mine!"

[Canadian Blue]

the mls is what we are part of and like it or not, this is the league we will continue to play in. it is 10 years old and not 100 like the epl

ummm, the EPL is only 17 years old.

[bignickel]

ummm, the EPL is only 17 years old.

sorry, you got me on a technicality, the epl did evolve from 100 years of league football though, all the teams playing in it are on average over 100 years old.

[Torcida]

it is 10 years old and not 100 like the epl,
:lol:

[Inswingingwingman]

Ok, so for the record.

I'm not pro Catho's or Protestants.

But I know a whack of Scots.

The either love Mo for changing jerseys, or hate him.

Not news, do the Google thing.

I don't care one way or the other, at the end of the day you earn respect.

You can't buy it, you can't kiss a$$ to get it, it's yours due to the people who believe in you.

Can pigs fly?

I hear now that swine flew.

Lighten up ffs

[Dirk Diggler]

what does ignoring the problem do? they just get worse...If TFC come down to one game for the playoffs and a Ref makes a call that costs us
that spot...will you still say its not Justified?

You don't think the league is working towards better officiating? You think the league is content with having shit referees? Please tell me again how yelling at them would achieve anything? You can file complaints with the league by citing specific incidents and such ... constantly yelling at refs achieves fuck all (aside from making you look like a douche). Its like going to a restaurant and yelling at the chef for preparing a bad meal when you can instead file a complaint with the manager and let him deal with the issue.

[Cashcleaner]

Ambivalence does not equal success... In respect to your point re: your 'right' to contradict a bad call - you are suggesting that you have to win a championship of some sort to challenge an official - how ridiculous do you really think this sounds when spelt out to you? It baffles me... It really does. Whew.

I don't understand it either. MLS refs are incredibly sub-par compared to most major domestic leagues I can think of. We've all seen so many questionable calls with our own eyes and have yelled and cursed at the refs stadning out there on the pitch in front of us.

But somehow, even though we all basically in agreement on the quality of officiating in our league, we're just going to forget about all it when it's convenient?

It would be outstanding if more coaches started to speak out against the dreadful officiating. I suspect many would like to as well.

[The Kingpin]

I don't understand it either. MLS refs are incredibly sub-par compared to most major domestic leagues I can think of. We've all seen so many questionable calls with our own eyes and have yelled and cursed at the refs stadning out there on the pitch in front of us.

But somehow, even though we all basically in agreement on the quality of officiating in our league, we're just going to forget about all it when it's convenient?

It would be outstanding if more coaches started to speak out against the dreadful officiating. I suspect many would like to as well.

This is the thing - I'm not a perpetual referee basher, I think it can be construed as a waste of time. To me yelling at the official is akin to yelling the meter-maid when you get a ticket - there is a whole other level of hierarchy that leads to that poor performance. This is why, for ages and ad nauseam, I have focused my attention at Mr. Don Garber. And I think in a tertiary way Mr. Carver was throwing his attack towards the MLS front office as well - just consider the fact we are discussing it now.

We all know that MLSE will throw it's own to the wolves if it means saving face - all we have to consider is the John Ferguson Jr. hiring/firing. I find it astounding that his head was the only one on the block. I'm not naive here, I understand the business model, but the sporting ineptitude is baffling. It's the ability to generate revenue that all is hinged upon - as Paul Bierne has jokingly, though smugly, acknowledged earlier in this thread. So what am I saying? They let John Carver flounder in his inexperience with the MLS and its overall ineptitude in building a league with overall quality. They did not use this as a platform to discuss the significantly under par officiating. It is my belief that if they devalue the quality of the league in any way it will affect the bottom line - thus they prefer a poorer product in lieu of profits.

At this point I will not even broach the fact that Cummins will end up being the full time manager regardless of his success rate, simply as a cost cutting measure. The fans in Toronto deserve more; will MLSE give it to them? I think not. John Carver was the curator of his own demise, no doubt - but he was on his own in the front lines, and for that I think that his front office 'team' let him down. Just my thoughts from the outside - I'm certain there are stories that may surface in future altering this viewpoint - for better or worse...

[Cashcleaner]

This is the thing - I'm not a perpetual referee basher, I think it can be construed as a waste of time. To me yelling at the official is akin to yelling the meter-maid when you get a ticket - there is a whole other level of hierarchy that leads to that poor performance. This is why, for ages and ad nauseam, I have focused my attention at Mr. Don Garber. And I think in a tertiary way Mr. Carver was throwing his attack towards the MLS front office as well - just consider the fact we are discussing it now.

We all know that MLSE will throw it's own to the wolves if it means saving face - all we have to consider is the John Ferguson Jr. hiring/firing. I find it astounding that his head was the only one on the block. I'm not naive here, I understand the business model, but the sporting ineptitude is baffling. It's the ability to generate revenue that all is hinged upon - as Paul Bierne has jokingly, though smugly, acknowledged earlier in this thread. So what am I saying? They let John Carver flounder in his inexperience with the MLS and its overall ineptitude in building a league with overall quality. They did not use this as a platform to discuss the significantly under par officiating. It is my belief that if they devalue the quality of the league in any way it will affect the bottom line - thus they prefer a poorer product in lieu of profits.

At this point I will not even broach the fact that Cummins will end up being the full time manager regardless of his success rate, simply as a cost cutting measure. The fans in Toronto deserve more; will MLSE give it to them? I think not. John Carver was the curator of his own demise, no doubt - but he was on his own in the front lines, and for that I think that his front office 'team' let him down. Just my thoughts from the outside - I'm certain there are stories that may surface in future altering this viewpoint - for better or worse...

Good points. Unfortunately, good points. I like how you mentioned how this whole ordeal could have really opened the lid off the officiating problem in the league. I'm dismayed that people in the position to effect change aren't standing up and acknowledging that Carver is right - the league as a whole from its very organizational infrastructure to the rules and regulations that effect the game itself is in need of an overhaul.

Carver's resignation should have been the point when people stopped grumbling about the current trend and started actually addressing the problems.

[bhoybobby]

Ok, so for the record.

I'm not pro Catho's or Protestants.

But I know a whack of Scots.

The either love Mo for changing jerseys, or hate him.

Not news, do the Google thing.

I don't care one way or the other, at the end of the day you earn respect.

You can't buy it, you can't kiss a$$ to get it, it's yours due to the people who believe in you.

Can pigs fly?

I hear now that swine flew.

Lighten up ffs

I'm not sure what you're on about. The religion Celtic Rangers thing has got nothing to do with my dislike of Mo as a coach, or G.M.

Why you keep bringing religion into it, is beyond me. Nobody here cares about that, you already proved your ignorance when you stated Mo was the 1st Catholic to play for Rangers, he wasn't, GOOGLE it, but like I said, no one cares about that shit.

Debate on his performance in his current role. Leave the other nonsense out.:canada:

[VPjr]

thank you....thankyouverymuch.... :cool:

credit given where credit is due.

[MartinUtd]

Mo played in the MLS for 5 years and has been coaching here ever since. If he's not familiar by now then god help us all.

The Mo/Carver comparison is not apt... at least from a settling in perspective

[VPjr]

If Frei was a gift, does that mean Robbo, Edu (traslated into 5 mil, some of which is allocation to help the team on the pitch), Barret (for nothing), DeRo (for James and allocation), Cronin were all gifts too?


Frei was certainly gifted to us and we are very fortunate that everyone else in the league had a massive brain fart.

As for your other examples of Mo's "brilliance"":

Robbo...overpaid...1 dimensional...great ball winner, horrible passer of the ball. I have total confidence in saying that the money paid to Robbo could be assigned to any number of foreign players from other parts of the world (other than overprice England) and we would land a superior player or we could spend less and get an equivalent to Robbo.

Edu....how hard is it to pick the unanimous #1 NCAA player in the draft...you don't have to be a fricken genius to make that pick when you have the first pick in the draft. Selling him for $5 million was a good move

Barrett ... don't get me started. I'd rather have just given Chicago McBride for a bag of balls and a few deep dish pizzas. Barrett is a drain on the salary cap. His skills will never match his heart and hustle

DeRo for James ... how hard is to make a trade for a player who was pining to come home and whose existing team is struggling to find a way to afford him? I'm glad it got done and that they gave up little in return but its not like Houston was devastated he left.

Cronin...again, how hard is it to use the #2 pick in the draft for a player who was ranked in the top 3 and who was runner up for NCAA player of the year. It was a good pick and I think Sam will ultimately be a very nice MLS player but again, no genius required. Now, if he could have found a way to move up and get Zakuani, then I'd have been impressed because he's impressed me tremendously.

[Beach_Red]

As for your other examples of Mo's "brilliance"":




DANNY DICHIO.